Forest Service Maps!!!!

[1freaky1]

Okay so this morning while at the forest service ranger station in Idaho Springs I got to talking with Ranger Carroll ( Super Nice Lady) and she showed me maps that the Forest service has not printed in twenty years so I ask the cost and to my surprise they are FREE!!!! So I asked how many I could have since the two clubs I am in does trail clean ups on a few trails in the area and she responded how many would you like? So I have 3 of each of the following ranger district maps;

Clear Creek
Boulder
South Platte

So the first three people that hit me up gets the maps!:)
These have all the trails in those areas on them with road names and #s!

[Fordguy77]

I'll take them sean!

[1freaky1]

Okay Christopher I will set a set aside for you,

So only two sets left now!

[Brody]

Save a set for me, please!

[Chris]

Me three? :thunb:

[scout man]

me four? - dang

[1freaky1]

Sorry Steve Looks like you weren't fast enough! But good news the ranger stations have them for free just have to ask for them.

Got it Pete & Chris!

[Chris]

Thanks Sean!

[1freaky1]

YW guys!

[Rob]

Sean, are those the Motor Vehicle Use Maps (MVUMs)?

[1freaky1]

Sean, are those the Motor Vehicle Use Maps (MVUMs)?

Rob yes they are. They have all the roads listed by the trail numbers and names too.

Steve I will try to pick up some more when I go up there next Tuesday.

[Brody]

she showed me maps that the Forest service has not printed in twenty years so I ask the cost and to my surprise they are FREE!!!!These have all the trails in those areas on them with road names and #s!

To answer your question, Rob, "Sean, are those the Motor Vehicle Use Maps (MVUMs)? ", these aren't. Whereas they may list all of the roads, etc., the MVUM are a relatively new thing and wasn't either heard of or in use 20 years ago. I would also be willing to bet that a number of the roads listed on these older maps are either closed to motor vehicle traffic completely now, are hiking trails or simply do not show up on any of the newer maps, including the MVUM maps. There are also roads off of Guenella Pass that don't show up on any of the newer maps. These are now in use as more x ski and hiking trails whether they have a road closed sign up or not. Duck Creek proper is one as we used to be able to drive all the way into that area back in the 70s.

I know this is true of the older Pike National Forest and South Platte maps that I have where areas such as Top of the World/Banner Peak and the back access to Stoney Pass show as still being open to motor vehicles as does the whole area on south side of FS 550, which we also used to drive in for the climbing there. For many years, the FS has been working to simply remove roads from the maps and not show them at all if they have decided that they don't want people driving on them.

Personally, I like the older maps and the older topo maps and don't much care for either the concept or the layout of the MVUM, which, to me, are about as lame as the acronym...

[Rob]

OK, which is it? Sean says yes, Pete says no.

[Chris]

I'll tell you after I see them. ;)

[1freaky1]

After seeing what Pete stated I am not to sure what you are ltalking about Rob (MVUMs).

[Brody]

For instance: the Clear Creek Ranger/Arapahoe National Forest MVUM has a printing date of January 01, 2010.

The MVUM came about as a result of a November 2005 USDA ruling. Any maps printed pre 2005 that are National Forest maps are not MVUM maps, specifically, though they do show a lot of the same roads. That should answer the question.

Here is one of the many links that explains MVUM:

http://www.cs.unca.edu/nfsnc/roads/roads.htm

One of my main beefs with the MVUM maps is the deplorable lack of any pertinent terrain features. These things look like something a cartographer did in "Map making 101" and would be the very last thing I would want to have with me if there was an emergency situation that required me to travel cross country for help. Maybe this is "old school", but I learned how to use a compass and figure out where I was by triangulation long before GPS was even developed and my compass, plus maps that actually show terrain features, go everywhere back country with me, whether I have my GPS with me or not. Many times I use my compass to double check the GPS. Ask yourself how you would fare if the "You are here" or "Return route" feature on your battery powered GPS craps out due to either water or batteries running down and you became lost and confused or had rig problems or injuries to deal with. That should answer any 'compass' questions you have right there....

At best, the MVUM maps are another tool, but shouldn't be the only map you have with you. I usually have some "real" maps with me wherever I am going, that show the terrain features. Learning to use a compass, knowing how to improvise a compass using a needle and water, watch, or simply a stick and two stones, is, to me, an essential back country skill just like knowing basic first aid. Just about everyone I know who spends a lot of time in the backcountry, GPS or not, carries a compass...and knows how to improvise one and read both maps and terrain.

That brings to mind some of the comments that were posted when Foxtrot had a rig break down at night and decided to spend an uncomfortable night by his rig rather then wander around at night trying to find his camp. Leaving the rig and walking around in the dark is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Ask anyone who teaches survival.... Even with a map or being able to see the north star, or with a GPS, the chances of finding his camp were slim. He made the best call there was to be made. Just read the newspapers when hunting season starts: "Hunters found after 3 days of being lost" ...."Well, we knew right where the camp was and decided to just keep walking after it got dark". Right.....Next time you are out camping, take a radio with you and leave your flashlight at the camp. Then go for a hike...in the woods, not a road...and see how fast you get disoriented. We used to practice this just so we wouldn't get lost at night and knew how to move around..It isn't easy...

For those people actually interested in learning basic survival techniques that are very practical, get in touch with Ed at Farris Survival. He and some other ex SpecOps/Spec Forces folks run them. One class will give you more than the basics and again, may very well save your life..


If you don't have an idea of what I am talking about, here are some links:

Magnetized needle and water:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VobcByagbPU

http://www.survivaltopics.com/forums/navigation/10667-make-your-own-compass.html

Using a watch:

http://jocosarblog.typepad.com/jocosarblog/2009/01/survival-skill-nuggets.html

A stick, the sun and two rocks:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4919445_compass-ground.html

Take a minute and look at these and at least get the basics down. It may very well save your ass or someone elses...

[Hypoid]

The free map I got from the C.C. Ranger Station is the MVUM.

I bought the Nat-Geo map last year: http://www.natgeomaps.com/ti_104

Unlike the Nat-Geo, the MVUM has all the spurs and roads labled. Between the two, I might know where I am. :p