3rd Annual Stockers Without Lockers - Bill Moore Lake

[Aaron]

Lets do the stocker w/o lockers run Aug 28...

This is an annual run where we choose a trail which is stocker friendly that all of the stock rigs can go on. Thats not to say that modified rigs can't go. It's just that we plan the run around stock rigs.

Trail Damage: http://www.traildamage.com/trails/index.php?id=12

Meeting Place: Safeway in Idaho Springs (a block from the McDonalds that gets too crowded)

Meeting Time: 9am

CB Channel 4

[Aaron]

Where do we usually meet for this trail?

[Brody]

Downieville Starbucks is about the best place.

[Chris]

I put Safeway in Idaho Springs a bit ago.

[Warrlord]

Just to let you guys know, there's a pretty large group planning a run there that day, mostly from Full Size Bronco.com. Just a courtesy heads-up to let ya expect a crowded trail that day :)

[Brody]

I put Safeway in Idaho Springs a bit ago.

That's also a good spot. Kinda hard to miss a big grocery store, but it has been known to happen...

[Robert B]

i have a Q on this one , trail damage says it connects to Red elephant hill and mill creek and it is good to run those 3 in 1 shot would that be the plan or just doing the 1 trail? :erm: oh and uhh what time would we meet ??

[cfr]

Need to be clear on this one so nobody gets surprised... Is 4Lo required?

[Brody]

i have a Q on this one , trail damage says it connects to Red elephant hill and mill creek and it is good to run those 3 in 1 shot would that be the plan or just doing the 1 trail? :erm: oh and uhh what time would we meet ??

I think that the other trails are left up to the people on the run as an option. There are probably going to be folks on the run with plans later on. Mill Creek is harder than the Mill Lake trail and Red Elephant is a bit harder than that. All can be done with a stock rig, though. There is an off camber section on Mill Creek that is tricky, especially for a stock rig, but it is easily navigated with some good spotting. Red Elephant is very rocky and steep, with one narrow section that needs some good driving to get around.

As far as a low range, I would say that it would be very beneficial, especially on Red Elephant. I don't know how other folks drive off road, but I almost always drive off road trails in my low range as it saves wear and tear on all of the drivetrain components. After all, you aren't going that fast, and you need the power curve rather than the speed.

[Aaron]

Me too. 4-Lo is my default trail mode. Keeps things nice and slow.

[Brad]

Maybe I am blind, but I still do not see a time to meet posted.

[Chris]

Good point Brad, I made the Meeting Time: 9am

If that's not good Aaron let me know.

[Brad]

Works for me! :thunb:

[Aaron]

You're not going Chris?

[Chris]

Nope, I have family from California coming in the day before and the day of the run.

[Brad]

I am going to have to pick another you are attending just so I can meet you. :confused:

[Aaron]

Anyone ever done this trail?

[Chris]

I have :lmao:

No real info needed Aaron, follow the trail to the lake and come back the same way. You can look at any number of run reports for more details.

[Chris]

I am going to have to pick another you are attending just so I can meet you. :confused:

There will be plenty more Brad. ;)

[Rob]

Anyone ever done this trail?

I've done it a few times (once at a 45-degree angle :lmao:) and I'm hoping to be there. I really want to hit the Mill Creek loop again.

[ramack]

How is the fishin' at the lake?

Rich

[Rob]

Anyone else want to run the Mill Creek loop and Red Elephant on the way out?

[ramack]

Regarding the alt runs, I'm pretty sure I will if I can make the initial run.

Rich

[Rob]

Regarding the alt runs, I'm pretty sure I will if I can make the initial run.

Rich

Good deal. Those are fun trails and a bit more challenging than Bill Moore.

[lovesdirt9]

Those are fun trails and a bit more challenging than Bill Moore.
Mill Creek & Red Elephant..... Is this something I can do Rob? (Honestly)

[Rob]

I think you can do them, honestly. Mill Creek, as I recall, has some steepish, rocky climbs and descents and Red Elephant has one good obstacle of rocks that we all scraped on last time (except for an FJ40 that caught up with us on the trail). That's one of those obstacles that's easier for SWB rigs like yours and the 40. You might need some spotting here and there, but you can do it.

[scout man]

Need to be clear on this one so nobody gets surprised... Is 4Lo required?

After running this trail, I would have to say 4LO is 100% required. To be blunt, I would not run this trail if someone on the trip did not have 4 low, as I know it would not end well. There are very steep uphill climbs on loose dirt and rocks. Honestly, my rig in 4LO (granted under geared) came very close to not having enough power to make it up a couple of the hills. I mean I literaly stalled out because I did not have enough power to continue forward. I dont care, as I can not make this run anyways, but I would suggest making a 4LO requirement. :2c:

[Aaron]

Rob, we might so the extra trails depending on how late it's getting. Since you've done bill more before, do you mind taking the lead on this one?

[Rob]

Last time I led Bill Moore, I ended up at a 45-degree angle in a mud pit. :eek:

But I'll be driving the 40 this time, so no problem. :thunb:

[Chris]

Gatemonkey ran it w/o 4LO working didn't he?

[scout man]

Gatemonkey ran it w/o 4LO working didn't he?

If thats the case, then I will bite my tongue. :bowdown: No way I could have done it without 4 lo, but I guess that doesnt mean others cant. I just remember the Patriot incident of last year, and that rig could not have run this trail.

[Dirt Claude]

Anyone else want to run the Mill Creek loop and Red Elephant on the way out?

Rob - If all goes well, I'm up for it! I've run Bill Moore numerous times but never checked out the alternate trails.

[1freaky1]

After running this yesterday I will say that it has gotten rougher since last year. And like Steve was saying on the steeper rock hills you do need 4 LO now, I killed it on the steeper hill on the loose rocks, now if you guys are running the loop to avoid the steep rock hills then it should not be a problem but they are getting rougher too as Chris and I both bottomed out on the rocks there.

Rob don't worry about the mud pit it has been filled in and that log that used to be there is now gone too!

[Brad]

Without sliders am I good to go on the alt. trails? I would hate to destroy bodywork just before putting sliders on.

[Chris]

If thats the case, then I will bite my tongue. :bowdown: No way I could have done it without 4 lo, but I guess that doesnt mean others cant. I just remember the Patriot incident of last year, and that rig could not have run this trail.

Sorry, it was Barbour Fork I was thinking of that Gatemonkey ran. :redface:

[1freaky1]

Without sliders am I good to go on the alt. trails? I would hate to destroy bodywork just before putting sliders on.

There really is only one spot that you might come in contact with a rock sticking out the side of the hill but with good tire placement and watching your way around it you should be ok just got to take your time and watch what you are doing.

[Brad]

Sounds good! :thunb:

[1freaky1]

As for fishing at the lake, 1 it is not very deep and both times I fished there I never had a bite or even saw any fish coming to the surface, I do not think is really has any in it.

[DKDunn04]

Just finished putting on my sliders, so i am down to do any of the trails.

[ramack]

As for fishing at the lake, 1 it is not very deep and both times I fished there I never had a bite or even saw any fish coming to the surface, I do not think is really has any in it.

Thanks for the input.

Rich

[Rob]

There really is only one spot that you might come in contact with a rock sticking out the side of the hill

Isn't that on Bill Moore? If that's the one I'm thinking about, it comes into play only when there's snow or mud.

You should be OK on the other trails. My memory's not great (I've run Mill Creek and Red Elephant only once), but the only place I remember scraping at all was on a rocky section of Red Elephant, and all the scraping was on the things like diffs and skids. Oh, and I extracted a large rock from the trail with a skid plate, so it's no longer in play. :)

[1freaky1]

Isn't that on Bill Moore? If that's the one I'm thinking about, it comes into play only when there's snow or mud.

You should be OK on the other trails. My memory's not great (I've run Mill Creek and Red Elephant only once), but the only place I remember scraping at all was on a rocky section of Red Elephant, and all the scraping was on the things like diffs and skids. Oh, and I extracted a large rock from the trail with a skid plate, so it's no longer in play. :)

This rock that sticks out is right on a curve section and it is kinda narrow with trees on the opposite side of the road.

[Brody]

Last time I led Bill Moore, I ended up at a 45-degree angle in a mud pit. :eek:

But I'll be driving the 40 this time, so no problem. :thunb:

And the mud pit was an alternative obstacle as there were variations around it...

[Rob]

And the mud pit was an alternative obstacle as there were variations around it...

And I was trying to go around it ... I just wasn't successful. :lmao:

[ramack]

And I was trying to go around it ... I just wasn't successful. :lmao:

Nah, I think you're just a kid at heart, ha.

Lookin' forward to the trail run.

Rich

[KnuckleHead]

So I am really thinking that I might be able to make this run..... just a couple of things...

1. I keep reading about this steep hill.... I am CARB'd so how is this going to affect me? I really do like stalling out on a hill climb. I'm good to about a 40deg climb.

2. I see it as a 2 for the cliffs on Trail Damage.... I'm not real found of those either. Are we talking like one wrong move and down you do or what?

If you have any pics of it that would be great. The pics I have seen really don't show much of that.
Thanks

[Jackie]

I ran it in October 2008 with the Colorado Jeep Club. If you want to see tons of pictures check out this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f123/bill-moore-lake-10-11-08-a-617408/

A #2 rating on Traildamage is really low (meaning easy).

[Jackie]

This rock that sticks out is right on a curve section and it is kinda narrow with trees on the opposite side of the road.

I think this is the rock you guys are referring to. It is (or at least was) much narrower than this picture shows. There is a bypass though. I didn't bang into it on the way up, but chose to take the bypass on the way down as did a few others I was was with.
14370

[Rob]

1. I keep reading about this steep hill.... I am CARB'd so how is this going to affect me? I really do like stalling out on a hill climb. I'm good to about a 40deg climb.


I don't remember it being that steep. It is a four-low hill, though.


2. I see it as a 2 for the cliffs on Trail Damage.... I'm not real found of those either. Are we talking like one wrong move and down you do or what?

I don't remember any cliffs, either.

Happy, you should be fine on this trail. I'm bringing the carbed 40. It didn't have any problems even on Red Cone and Radical Hill and I believe those are steeper than Bill Moore.

[KnuckleHead]

Sounds good. I was watching some videos of Bill Moore on Youtube and it seems to be fine.... Thanks for the info. I hope I see you all next Saturday

[1freaky1]

I don't remember it being that steep. It is a four-low hill, though.



I don't remember any cliffs, either.

Happy, you should be fine on this trail. I'm bringing the carbed 40. It didn't have any problems even on Red Cone and Radical Hill and I believe those are steeper than Bill Moore.

Rob here is one of the steep sections it has a ton more loose rocks and some rutts now, not really any ledges or cliffs to speak of

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13087&stc=1&d=1278213188

And this is the old mud hole which is now almost flat there are just a few small rutts and the rock in the middle and no logs either!
http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4043&d=1246854873

[cfr]

As far as a low range, I would say that it would be very beneficial, especially on Red Elephant. I don't know how other folks drive off road, but I almost always drive off road trails in my low range as it saves wear and tear on all of the drivetrain components. After all, you aren't going that fast, and you need the power curve rather than the speed.

The question about 4lo wasn't for me, but was intended to set expectations properly so we could avoid the whole Jeep Patriot w/o 4lo thing again. To ask another way, do we think that the Subaru/Patriot/AWD/whatever w/o 4lo can do this trail without having to be dragged up every hill?

Maybe we need a designated AWD run.

[Aaron]

80% certain I still still be there. We took the Jeep back to Old Flowers Rd this weekend to test the new wheels, tires and lift. It was mostly a success. However, we have a pretty narly rub up front on the fenders. I need to get them trimmed sometime between now and then to make it.

[Rob]

Can you take the fenders off for the day, or do you need to trim the quarter panel?

[AccordRanger]

Does anyone have some stickers they could bring? Side windows look bare without Front Range 4x4 on 'em.

[Chris]

Who that's going for sure can hook up with me to bring stickers?

[Aaron]

I can meet you half way if you want Chris. Perhaps at Drury Inn (NE corner of Peoria and I70) near 4WheelParts.

[Brad]

Does anyone have some stickers they could bring? Side windows look bare without Front Range 4x4 on 'em.

Can I get in on that?:)

[Chris]

I can meet you half way if you want Chris. Perhaps at Drury Inn (NE corner of Peoria and I70) near 4WheelParts.

That would work for me Aaron, thanks! Tell me when it would work for you.

[Aaron]

I know it gets close to rush hour, but how does 4 work for you? I might be able to be there at 3:30 but I have a meeting till 3 that might go over.

[Chris]

I'll let you know if that's going to work, hoping my EGR valve comes in today so I can be done with it.

[Robert B]

well i found out i should be busy that day (tear) so i wont be able to go and meet you new guys and see ppl i know ( ramack, lovesdirt9, maybe fordboy77) so have Fun guys. i might try to shoot for the clean up run then, even if i cant drive at least ride with someone --edit: and i need stickers too someone should send me a pic of how big the sizes are and what colors you have lol

[mushroomax]

I will try and make this, should know for sure by Friday. Probably just meet you guys at the trailhead since I'll be trailering the rig.

[Aaron]

I got stickers!!!

[Brad]

I want Stickers!! :D

[Brad]

Jason, the guy I helped do his head gaskets is planning on being there as well. He has a 2000 D2 in goldish beige?
He has not joined here yet so just a heads up.

[upnover]

That's me! see you at Safeway.

[Fordguy77]

Just found out i am hauling Hay on Saturday. Stupid horses, hope to make another one soon.

[Smash]

Everybody be safe and have a great time! Take lots of pics, I will live vicariously....

[DKDunn04]

I have the doors off the Jeep now, and cant decide if I want to put them back on for a 20% chance of rain.....

[Brad]

BE DANGEROUS! ;)

[Aaron]

So, I get done with all I got to get done to go on the run tomorrow. I decide that I'm going to run downtown to go to lunch with the bride... Bammm. Something big hits the windshield. Big... Small shards are sitting on top of me... I can't get an appt to get it fixed before Monday. Since I can push the windshield in and out, I don't feel safe going on this run.

I'm out. and SERIOUSLY bummed.

[Brad]

That sucks Aaron! Was it a Semi or ???

[Aaron]

There was a semi in front of me so that's my assumption. I didn't see it though.

On a good note, I'm sitting at a glass repair shop so things are looking up.

[Chris]

I was going to say you have plenty of time to get it done yet today! Good luck!

[Brad]

I really hope they come through! I had the same thing happen on my way to the airport 1 day. Could not chase the dirtbag down, would have missed my flight.

[Chris]

The guy with the stickers has to make it Aaron!

[Aaron]

Yeah, I called 3 places before going home and no one could do it. After I got home, I called two more. Glass Doctor might be my savior. Sitting here now... Thanks tapatalk :)

[DKDunn04]

Hopefully they get it done! I got skurred and put my doors on.

[Jackie]

WOW! So sorry that happened. Glad you're OK and I hope they get the window replaced tonight.

[Aaron]

Its done. I'm back in!!! Poor but in!!

[Brad]

Sweet! Way to persevere! :thunb:

[scout man]

Hopefully they get it done! I got skurred and put my doors on.

Wuss!! I'm running Spring Creek with my half doors. BUT, your probably really smart, seeing as I have never been on Spring Creek without getting rained on, and we are pretty much across the highway from you.

[Chris]

Its done. I'm back in!!! Poor but in!!

:woot:

Glad you got it done!

Looking forward to the report and pics! :thunb:

[Crazy Willie]

It's been a rough week, so I'm not ready yet, but I'm hoping to make the run tomorrow morning. Just depends on whether I get up early enough to finish getting ready. So, if someone sees an unlifted black Chevy Avalanche rolling on 35s pull into the Safeway lot in the morning, flag me down please, LOL. Hope to see everyone in the morning!

[KnuckleHead]

Well we are out of this one.... This is the one weekend I don't have to work Sunday morning so we are going to go hit up Bunce and T-33A and camp out. Have fun and be safe everyone....

[Chris]

3rd Annual Stockers Without Lockers Report -> http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?10779-3rd-Annual-Stockers-Without-Lockers