recommendations for a knee doctor?

[scout man]

I seem to have hurt my knee a few weeks back at the gym, and it keeps getting worse and worse. The wife is making me go see a doctor. Anyone have recommendations or connections with a good one? Cheap is a huge plus too, as I'm poor!

[Chris]

There's no such thing as cheap in this area Steve. Barb had a great experience with one that repaired her torn meniscus, she was able to sit cross-legged at the follow-up 5 days after the surgery. I can find her name but if you don't have decent insurance you can't afford her. :frown:

Dr. Leslie Vidal is her name, she's by Rose Hospital...

[Brody]

No such thing as a cheap doctor....or knee surgeon. What I would do if I were you and needed to see someone in the know without spending big bucks except maybe a return favor one day, is to go down to Farris and see Big Ed. Medic with combat experience (18 years, think) and bad knees.....

Sooo...yer knee.... Here is what it looks like:

http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/acltears/acl_whatis.html

Does it move front to back in a normal manner?

Does it support your weight and doesn't feel like it is going to fold on you, either forward or backward?

Does it have side play or pain if you try to move it in a sideways manner, like rocking it side to side?

Does it support your weight and is just otherwise sore?

Is it swollen?

Is there fluid buildup, like a sack of jelly under the knee cap or slightly under the knee?

Have you iced it like you would do any other joint injury?

Here's what I would do (and have done):

If you have support, but just pain, and no savage pain (and I am talking the "can't speak, go bone white, eyes crossing, have to sit down pain", not just the "grit your teeth, oh ****" BS pain) when you try to move your lower leg laterally (side to side), chances are you have just torn or stretched junk a bit. You need to ice your knee a bunch of times during the day. Not for too long, but in the AM before you get up and moving, when it starts to hurt during the day, and again in the evening. About 10-15 minutes per time. Get some decent anti-inflammatories and take up to 800mg per time (yer call on that. I ain't a doc, just telling you what I have done...more than that your liver isn't happy). You are going to want to stay off of it as much as possible...hard call there. The last time I dicked mine up, I continued to work . Fun having to hop up and down ladders ....Oh...avoid doing squats or leg curls or leg presses. A stationary bike is probably going to do some good with light resistance. Ice both before and afterwards and use just some light resistance. If this seems to aggravate the knee more, causes a lot of pain or more swelling, stop doing it right away, otherwise it is probably helping.

Anyway, go online and learn how to do a knee wrap using a 4" or slightly smaller ACE bandage that allows forward movement, gives support and prevents side to side flex or bending. This will be your friend until your knee starts feeling better.

Here are a couple of links:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4778218_wrap-knee-ace-bandage.html

http://www.mahalo.com/how-to-wrap-a-knee

Basically it is a figure 8 wrap that leaves the knee cap exposed, crosses over on each side (forms an X) of your knee, and supports both above and below the knee. I didn't look at the video, but the second link shows exactly what you need to do in the first picture.

Now if moving your knee side to side lights your ass up and doesn't support weight, you will need to see a specialist or regular doctor as you have done some damage.

If your knee wants to fold on you when you weight it, either forward or backward, try the wrap and ice thing for a few days, but do not do the bike or any other exercises that involve your knee. If this doesn't get better after a few days (2-4) then you have some issues that you need to see a doc about.

If you have swelling and after a couple of days of icing and anti-inflammatories (again 2-4 days) the swelling doesn't go down, you will have to see a doctor and probably get it drained. Give this a little time as it is a build up of synovial fluid which is pretty viscous stuff and it takes awhile for you body to re absorb it.

If you move your knee in a normal front to back motion and feel a grinding/popping sensation accompanied by some pain, you will PROBABLY have to see a doctor if this persists. This is just some junk that got torn off and is floating around. A little junk your body will absorb and kinda self repair over time. A fish oil supplement like shark oil will help some with this stuff. There are also other supplements out there that are designed to help with joint injuries and well worth a look, especially if doctor's bills are not on the program. A lot of that junk and you will have to go to a doctor to have it removed, some of which can be done sonically now, which is non invasive.

Bottom line, CHEAP knee surgeries start at around $20,000 and go up from there....

Hope this helps. I have had a lot of knee injuries of one kind or another. Only one required surgery (and a 6 mile ski trip out after it happened...ripped apart ACL, torn MCL and LCL....bad landing on a solo cross country ski jaunt...fun day...) and the rest simply required some additional support, time, anti-inflammatories, ice, and staying off of it as much as possible. If you haven't done anything major, then the less you can use the knee, the faster it is going to heal. If you have done some damage that doesn't require any surgery, and have to walk, work or other wise can't stay off it, it will eventually heal, but will just take longer.

[scout man]

There's no such thing as cheap in this area Steve. Barb had a great experience with one that repaired her torn meniscus, she was able to sit cross-legged at the follow-up 5 days after the surgery. I can find her name but if you don't have decent insurance you can't afford her. :frown:

Dr. Leslie Vidal is her name, she's by Rose Hospital...

Thanks Chris, I do have insurance, and as of tomorrow I am on the wifes insurance, but I am just not sure how good it actually is. I need to pull out the paperwork, but I think there is a higher deductable than i can afford.

[scout man]

No such thing as a cheap doctor....or knee surgeon. What I would do if I were you and needed to see someone in the know without spending big bucks except maybe a return favor one day, is to go down to Farris and see Big Ed. Medic with combat experience (18 years, think) and bad knees..... Thanks Pete. I forgot about Ed. This is the kind of thing I was hoping for, professional opinion for not professional price!!

Sooo...yer knee.... Here is what it looks like:

http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/acltears/acl_whatis.html

Does it move front to back in a normal manner?
mostly. Pops a bit and hurts a bit
Does it support your weight and doesn't feel like it is going to fold on you, either forward or backward?
usually yes, works fine for normal operation, then it just suddenly doesnt. Feels like it dislocates and I need to kick my foot before i feel a pop and it seems to "go back in"
Does it have side play or pain if you try to move it in a sideways manner, like rocking it side to side?
feels the same as it always has here
Does it support your weight and is just otherwise sore?
usually yes. but a slight side shift in my weight and it sometimes doesnt support it anymore
Is it swollen?
THis is were it worries my. I wouldnt call it swollen per say, but there is a bump right where it hurts. Doesnt feel like fluid, its a very firm, small lump
Is there fluid buildup, like a sack of jelly under the knee cap or slightly under the knee?
no
Have you iced it like you would do any other joint injury?
yes, but probably not enough. I am always bad about icing things.
Here's what I would do (and have done):

If you have support, but just pain, and no savage pain (and I am talking the "can't speak, go bone white, eyes crossing, have to sit down pain", not just the "grit your teeth, oh ****" BS pain) when you try to move your lower leg laterally (side to side), chances are you have just torn or stretched junk a bit. You need to ice your knee a bunch of times during the day. Not for too long, but in the AM before you get up and moving, when it starts to hurt during the day, and again in the evening. About 10-15 minutes per time. Get some decent anti-inflammatories and take up to 800mg per time (yer call on that. I ain't a doc, just telling you what I have done...more than that your liver isn't happy). You are going to want to stay off of it as much as possible...hard call there. The last time I dicked mine up, I continued to work . Fun having to hop up and down ladders ....Oh...avoid doing squats or leg curls or leg presses. A stationary bike is probably going to do some good with light resistance. Ice both before and afterwards and use just some light resistance. If this seems to aggravate the knee more, causes a lot of pain or more swelling, stop doing it right away, otherwise it is probably helping.

Anyway, go online and learn how to do a knee wrap using a 4" or slightly smaller ACE bandage that allows forward movement, gives support and prevents side to side flex or bending. This will be your friend until your knee starts feeling better.
I have several knee braces for this purpose. I have had bad knees my whole life, so unfortunately this isnt anything too unusual for me, just a different pain than normal.
Here are a couple of links:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4778218_wrap-knee-ace-bandage.html

http://www.mahalo.com/how-to-wrap-a-knee

Basically it is a figure 8 wrap that leaves the knee cap exposed, crosses over on each side (forms an X) of your knee, and supports both above and below the knee. I didn't look at the video, but the second link shows exactly what you need to do in the first picture.

Now if moving your knee side to side lights your ass up and doesn't support weight, you will need to see a specialist or regular doctor as you have done some damage.

If your knee wants to fold on you when you weight it, either forward or backward, try the wrap and ice thing for a few days, but do not do the bike or any other exercises that involve your knee. If this doesn't get better after a few days (2-4) then you have some issues that you need to see a doc about.

If you have swelling and after a couple of days of icing and anti-inflammatories (again 2-4 days) the swelling doesn't go down, you will have to see a doctor and probably get it drained. Give this a little time as it is a build up of synovial fluid which is pretty viscous stuff and it takes awhile for you body to re absorb it.

If you move your knee in a normal front to back motion and feel a grinding/popping sensation accompanied by some pain, you will PROBABLY have to see a doctor if this persists. this sounds like a realistic description of my currrent pain. This is just some junk that got torn off and is floating around. A little junk your body will absorb and kinda self repair over time. A fish oil supplement like shark oil will help some with this stuff. thanks. didnt think of this. I think the wife has some, ill go take some. There are also other supplements out there that are designed to help with joint injuries and well worth a look, especially if doctor's bills are not on the program. A lot of that junk and you will have to go to a doctor to have it removed, some of which can be done sonically now, which is non invasive.

Bottom line, CHEAP knee surgeries start at around $20,000 and go up from there....

Hope this helps. I have had a lot of knee injuries of one kind or another. Only one required surgery (and a 6 mile ski trip out after it happened...ripped apart ACL, torn MCL and LCL....bad landing on a solo cross country ski jaunt...fun day...) and the rest simply required some additional support, time, anti-inflammatories, ice, and staying off of it as much as possible. If you haven't done anything major, then the less you can use the knee, the faster it is going to heal. If you have done some damage that doesn't require any surgery, and have to walk, work or other wise can't stay off it, it will eventually heal, but will just take longer.

thanks Pete. I have been trying to take it easy and hope this gets better, but i keep doing things to hurt it. Even something as simple as kneeling on the ground can be bad if I shift my weight wrong. Hopefully its nothing too huge, as I have a winter backpacking/snowshoeing trip planned on the 19th. I am starting to worry about that one, and should probably get it checked out before that.

[Chris]

That's good Steve, I blocked from my memory what Barb's knee cost to fix but it was crazy. After seeing that I really understood why I see so many hobbled people walking around. This same doc is who I saw for my shoulders and recomended PT rather than surgery which is always a good alternative.

[The Clam]

Hey Steve,
I just had knee surgery about 3.5 weeks ago. Torn Meniscus. I was referred for an MRI (which is probably where you will have to start) from my primary physician and then to Colorado Orthopedic Consultants- it seems like they have a good variety of sports medicine docs. (which is what I wanted). I chose Dr. Stull who is the orthopedic doc of the Colorado Mammoth. Main office is at the medical center of aurora, surgery was in englewood.

My knee had been bothering me for nearly 3 years after hiking Pikes Peak, and after playing flag football more recently, started bothering me consistently so I decided it was time to see the doc. I would think your first steps would be the primary consult with your doctor, then most likely the'll refer you for an MRI. I'm lucky with good insurance so my primary doc was my co-pay and the MRI was fully covered. With my surgery it was really quick, only about 30 minutes, and now after just over 3 weeks I feel like I'm at 90%. I can't kneel down on the healing knee or run, but all other things are just about back to normal. I had asked the surgery center about cost for my surgery (cause I only had a co-pay) and she said about $10K if it were all cash.

Good luck, but if it is hurting consistently- get it checked out!

[Brody]

From what you answered, Steve, it sounds like you might have torn or stretched your ACL some. Ideally, with insurance or deep pockets, surgery would do the deed. Minus the last two critical items (if I came up with something life threatening right now, I would have to just go someplace and die, due to lack of said items....That's probably not very far from the truth, either...), stay away from any stresses, like major movements or exercises that will tax your knee and try out the stationary bike with low resistance at the gym. See what happens.

I know what you mean about the ice. I hate it...really hate it. Do it, though when I have to. When I screwed my back up badly back in the 80s, I had to ice my back a lot. Since it was my back, the ice came right over my kidneys, lowering my body temp. I think I was cold for the two years that i went through all the physical therapy and have a real aversion to icing anything....Does work.

See Ed and post up what he says. If you can't get a hold of him, PM me as I think I have his cell number somewhere.

As far as the snowshoe trip goes, well, your doctor, or any doctor, is going to say 'no way', hands down. Me, I would say to wrap it up nicely or use a knee brace and go, but I am a glutton for punishment that way, having rock climbed with a broken arm (in cast), broken fingers, and dislocated shoulders, climbed with a full leg cast, rock climbed the day I got my leg out of the cast, and climbed as soon as I could bend my knee from the last time it got jacked....In other words, I maybe not the best one to give advice as to whether to go or not. :D

[Chris]

thanks Pete. I have been trying to take it easy and hope this gets better, but i keep doing things to hurt it. Even something as simple as kneeling on the ground can be bad if I shift my weight wrong. Hopefully its nothing too huge, as I have a winter backpacking/snowshoeing trip planned on the 19th. I am starting to worry about that one, and should probably get it checked out before that.

Yeah, you should probably get it checked out. Be prepared to findout you can't even get in to see someone good until after your planned snowshoe trip. Not trying to bum you out but that's typically the case unless you go to the ER.

[scout man]

Yeah, you should probably get it checked out. Be prepared to findout you can't even get in to see someone good until after your planned snowshoe trip. Not trying to bum you out but that's typically the case unless you go to the ER.

yea, Im aware. I think I am going to go see Ed, and take it easy on it (which I have not been doing a good job of lately), and try to see if the finances will allow a doctor. If its not giving me trouble by the time the trip comes, then on the trip I will go. But if its like it is today, then no way in hell will I be heading into the backcountry on foot.

Unfortunately its hard to lay around all day and take it easy when I have been in a pretty serious weight loss/get in shape kick lately. 13 or so pounds down, and anothe 20 or so to go... laying around is definitely not a step in the right direction there... but then again I guess hurting my knee even more isnt either. Damn knees

[Rob]

take it easy on it (which I have not been doing a good job of lately)

Like hauling furniture down three flights of stairs today? :eek: If you're knee's feeling like my left shoulder ...

When I got home, my wife told me she thinks one of her ribs popped out of place. Right after she told me she shoveled the walk anyway. Oops. Good thing she's a tough old broad.

[scout man]

Like hauling furniture down three flights of stairs today? If you're knee's feeling like my left shoulder ...
yes, yes it is.

I am now starting to truly take it easy. Like, as hard as it is, I will be sitting on the couch for the next week.

[dr350jja]

I really hope taking it easy will help your knee. I've got the same issue, can never sit still...hurt or not!!!! (sometimes I think it's a curse)

[Jackie]

Do you have a set of crutches to help you baby that knee?

[scout man]

i dont. Its crossed my mind though. That or maybe a cane, but crutches would prolly do a lot better. Managed to baby it so far today. :brody:

[Jackie]

My husband has a pair that maybe you could borrow. But he's 6'4" and they don't adjust down very much. Depending on your height, they may not work for you. Let me know. Or you could borrow my Leki poles if you want. They might actually be better.

[scout man]

I definitely appreciate the offer. Unfortunately I am only about 5'9"... My guess is they wont work for me if the dont adjust down very much. I have a pole here in the closet too, I hadnt even though about that!

[Jackie]

Yeah - I'm only 5'7" and when I adjust them as low as they go, there still isn't even a chance I could use them. They would be too tall for you as well. Try using your Leki and let me know if you would like to borrow a second one (or the pair).

[The Clam]

You can get crutches at king soopers (the service counter) for a $30 deposit.

[Jackie]

You're right! We had to do that once - totally forgot about it!!!:brody:

[scout man]

thanks guys. (un)fortunately I dont have any work these days, so sitting around the house doing nothing is far more of an option than it usually is!!

[Chris]

Steve, I have a set that will fit you. Probably a good idea to take all weight off it for a day and see if it changes anything.

[scout man]

thanks for the offer chris. I think I'm going to try a few days of just taking it easy first, and using the walking stick when I need it. If that doesnt seem to help at all, I might hit you up for those crutches in a couple days.

[Chris]

They're sitting in a closet, hope you don't need them!

[Pathrat]

If you are still looking for a knee orthopedist, I strongly recommend Dr Ted Parks. I had to see him for my knee, I work with him indirectly and have heard nothing but good things about him. Not only is he an incredibly smart and competent doctor, he designed and built his own car. Cool. If you don't get better, go see him.

http://www.western-ortho.com/Our-Physicians/Edward-%28Ted%29-H--Parks,-M-D-.aspx

[scout man]

Thanks Stephanie. I have managed to somewhat take it easy the last few days, and things are feeling and looking a little better. Still a ways to go though. Unfortunatley I just picked up some work for wednesday, so my week of doing nothing isnt going to happen. I needed the work though, so I just couldnt say no. It might set me back a touch, but it will pay the bills then I can take the next week of relaxing! maybe

[scout man]

So as an update on this... still not better. I have figured out how to maneuver regularly without re-injuring it, but it definitely is not any better. At this point I need to find a doctor, but unfortunately the $3500 deductible doesnt fit so well this timne of year (or any time lately). I am hopefully filing my taxes by the end of the month, in which case I will know how much of my dedicated tax funds (since I am self employed) are actually going to go the government. If I have any $$ left over, then I am definitely off to the doctor. If I dont owe more than I have set aside, then I will probably swing the doctor on the credit card. :oops: Unfortunately, if I owe more than I am expecting than I am screwed. So we will see what happens. Either way, I think the backpacking trip is at least being pushed off into february.

[Smash]

Dangit, I wish my dad was in town!!!

[scout man]

me too i am guessing!!!!! :D

[Smash]

Yeah... If you get an MRI or something he can look at via email send it along... He's an orthopedic surgeon, still practices office work but retired from surgery. Specialized in knees and shoulders.

[Chris]

How about if we fly him in Ash? He can fix Steve's knee and my shoulder since those are his specialties. We could use my garage as a makeshift OR! :erm:

[scout man]

How about if we fly him in Ash? He can fix Steve's knee and my shoulder since those are his specialties. We could use my garage as a makeshift OR! :erm:

Thats probably a much better option than may garage. I think all the steel dust would not feel too pleasant in a wound.


Stopped by and talked with Ed today. He suggested I go visit his wifes hospital. I will probably try to do that next week,.

[Rob]

How about if we fly him in Ash? He can fix Steve's knee and my shoulder since those are his specialties. We could use my garage as a makeshift OR! :erm:

And my shoulder. :)

[Chris]

Good luck Steve!

[scout man]

Thanks Chris!