Hard Start 2002 NIssan Altima.

[ColoRaider]

2002 NIssan Altima 2.5 S 106K
I niticed that the car started haveing a hard time starting. It just so happened that the check engine lite came on at the same time. I had the code checked and it was the CRank shaft Possition sensor, OR the cam shaft possition sensor. Changed both of them out, reset the code and I still have a hard start. I am not a skilled mech by any means. Anyone have any suggetstions on what might cause a hard start?
Plugs were changed about 25K ago.
Things I am thinking..
1st wire set, 2nd ignition coils..
The car runs great once started, no hesitation no stalling nothing of the sort...
any ideas?

[Patrolman]

t-belt? Wouldn't be the first one to jump a tooth. That can really throw things for a loop. Make sure you are resetting the codes after doing any work.

[Red Rhino]

Check the fuel pressure.

[Andrew]

Yeah wires/coils isn't a bad place to look. Check fuel filter.

I've had this issue with my Maxima, but very sporadic. To the point that I have no way of figuring it out because it's happened so rarely. I first thought I got a little bad gas or something but now who knows. It hasn't done it for like 6 months though so it's pretty impossible to troubleshoot.

[Brody]

Have you gone to this and run through the checks:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?11461-Diagnosing-A-No-Start-Condition

What you have is a car so full of electronics that diagnosing one specific item is going to be hard. Start with the simple stuff, including your battery terminals, as not enough juice to anything in the system is enough to throw a code or cause a malfunction. Check fuel to the fuel rails. Check your fuel return line (a blocked fuel return line will screw up gas getting to the fuel rail). Check spark. Pull the EFI fuse and or the positive or negative sides of the battery terminals...whatever is necessary to re set the ECM...and for as long as needed( usually no longer than 10 minutes..)

I am not a mechanic either and have been trying to diagnose problems on my electronics filled rig for some time. It hasn't been much fun and I have needed some more experienced help, too. That article is a very good place to start, though, mechanic or not.

[ColoRaider]

Thanks for the advice. That article rocks.
I will follow the steps mentioned above and post with any other ?'s
Thanks again.

[ColoRaider]

Sooo, I have narrowed it down to the Timing Chain. According to the FSM that I have it looks as if I have to remove everything from the engine to get at the timing gears and chain.
Has anyone had any experience with this task? I am not sure it is something I am willing to dive into., looking for a go/no go." YOu can do it", or "take it to a mechanic"....

[Squshiee1]

ummmm, i had to do the same thing to my rodeo and it was a pain! i would take it to a mechanic, but my car is different

[Zukrider]

why the timing chain?

you said it runs fine once running right? not a chain/belt. need more info.

how often does it happen?
when it happens, how long do you crank it until it starts?
what "tricks" are you doing to get it to start? if any
does it start harder sometimes when compared to others?

off the top of my head, i lean to fuel pump relay, throttle position sensor. it is hard to say though. all manufacturers have there own little quirks. could be injector bleed out, which is essentially a flooding condition. it will not be wires, coils. most nissans have a mass air flow sensor, and that could be dirty. is the air filter clean?

lots of stuff to think about. fuel pressure regulator could also be at fault.

[Brody]

you said it runs fine once running right? not a chain/belt. need more info.

What Joe said. If it runs fine once it starts and continues to run fine when you increase the RPMs, it certainly isn't the timing belt/chain. That will most definitely show up when you increase the RPMs even if it doesn't at idle.

My guess is that it is a sensor. I ended up replacing the water temperature sensor before my rig started running better, even though the O2 sensors were new.

[ColoRaider]

how often does it happen?
when it happens, how long do you crank it until it starts?
It happens every time we start the vehicle.
Sometimes it just cranks and cranks as you turn the key. Then release pressure on the key, and retry and it will start up.

I have replaced the camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor, plugs, wires.

The fuel pump was thought to be the issue, but others(on a NIssan forum) who have had this issue and had fuel pump problems said that if the key was left in the accessory position for a few seconds prior to starting the car
that it would solve the issue, due to the fuel pump needed to start sending fuel .
I have a new air filter in the box. Fresh oil(not that that matters in this case)
Not sure what to do right now.. I am going to put a new fuel pump in next week and see if that solves the problem.

[Zukrider]

fuel pump is likely a waste of money. usually a pump will be dead, and not work at all. or it will pump, but not enough. this will allow it to start and drive, but once you left off the gas, it dies due to lack of pressure.

it seems to me, based on the fact it will crank and crank, then start, that you are bleeding off the residual pressure. i would still lean towards a fuel pressure regulator myself.

[ColoRaider]

regulator is in the fuel pump not separate.
Altima owners have had varying levels of success with different treatments. one person changes cam sensors.. problem fixed, while the others fuel pump, MAF etc. all the same symptoms, many different solutions. So I will just work my way down the line.
worst comes to worst, I have new whatever the hell i change in our Altima.
TRied to talk her into the toyota, but she didnt want to listen.. >:D

[Zukrider]

in the pump huh? weird.

[Java]

is there any difference between cold and hot starting / restarting?

[ColoRaider]

no difference in cold or hot start.

[Java]

sounds like somethings not talking to something else, I'd guess a sensor, but I'd maybe rule out the O2 sensors if temp isn't a factor.

[Zukrider]

O2 sensors have nothing to do with starting. The computer won't use there input until its at operating temp.

[Java]

can't a bad O2 sensor affect fuel supply at any temp? I have to admit that my current Jeep is the only EFI vehicle I've even owned, everything else was carbs...

[Zukrider]

technicaly yes. but no. an o2 sensor will modify the fuel curve. but when they go bad, the computer goes into limp so the car will run.

when starting, unnecessary sensors like these are bypassed, they only come into play during normal use under normal conditions, ie....operating temp, no codes, blah blah, blah. i stand behind the fuel pressure regulator. him saying it is in the pump is weird to me, but if thats what it takes, then thats what it takes!