John's (Clutch) Moab Carnage

[Aaron]

Notice the tires aren't pointing the right directions... Luckily, he and Keith had an extra one and was back on the trails Sunday.

[Robert B]

so did he hit something with it as the shiny parts on it suggest and then bent or did it just bend???

[Brody]

That is prone to bend on a Jeep. Even the after market heavier duty ones could stand a little reinforcement. I have straightened a lot of them out on the trail, all belong to other rigs, and it seems that you hit the sweet spot -wrong angle, tires turned just right, etc-it just folds up. Trick is to run a winch cable from the back of the Jeep, lash, strap or clamp to the center of the bar from over the top of the diff, get weight off the front wheels, block the rears, and slowly winch the bend back into a more or less straight shape. Just doing that is usually enough to nurse the rig off the trail and home.

[scout man]

Oh, but Aaron, you werent around for John's OTHER carnage! :D Ill let him post it up when he gets back, and I know he thoroughly enjoys the story...

[MelloYello]

Pete - I think John and I will both be talking to you about beefing up our steering since it is the same on both of our rigs. More work coming your way. : )

[Brody]

No problem. You will need to decide if you are going to beef (like change to a Dana 44) your front axle up any time soon before that. No need to do the same stuff twice. If you are going to keep the same same axles for quite awhile, then no big deal and we can work stuff out. There are a few ways to beef these up, including after market stuff.

Just wanted to mention the axle stuff in case it was in the near future, though judging from the trail pictures, if you haven't damaged the front axle by now, chances are that you are driving carefully enough not to damage it in the future unless it is an accident or fluke. Biggest thing with the stock Danas on a Jeep is simply to not hammer them and they will last a long time...

[MelloYello]

I can not speak for John, but I am not interested in "hammering", I like to faness (sp?) my way up and drive home. : ) I will keep my D30 up front.

[Cr33p3r]

Not hard to tell the tires hit hard and bent it in a semi U shape downward.

[Funrover]

DO'H!!

[scout man]

He said he had dented it already, and the way he bent it was actually not on the throttle too much! Just happened to be those perfect rocks that got narrower as he went forward and squished the tires towards each other.

John does like his throttle, but it sounds like he intends to stick with these axles for now. He definitely wants "bullet proof"

[MelloYello]

Fixing it at camp and not on the trail was lucky! BFE was a nice place to camp.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn174/AtomicKD/Jeep%20Pics/Moab%20March%202011/DSC04430.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn174/AtomicKD/Jeep%20Pics/Moab%20March%202011/DSC04433.jpg

[scout man]

So, I am surprised John never posted up the videos/pictures he shot of his close call on Green Day....

[Brody]

I have been cleaning up Dave Pritchett's Jeep Wrangler to get it ready to sell. The steering linkage on that is massive. The drag link is made from 2" stock and the tie rod is equally massive. There are upgrade kits out there for the stock steering that are close to being that strong and many out there that are a decent upgrade from the stock set up.

Dave's is made for the bigger Dana 60 high steer as he has the Roc Joc axles on his rig..

[RidgeRunner]

Here's a good all around upgrade if your planning on staying with a D30.

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?7906-Ridgerunner-s-WJ-knuckle-swap-build

Those linkages are 1.25" .375" wall DOM, they are beefy. It can be done for about the same price as the Teraflex knuckle setup and with this one you also get bigger brakes.

[Brody]

Thanks, Dave. What was the overall price by the time you got done with the project? John is probably planning on going for something along these lines and a price for the parts would help him budget for it.

BTW, Dave's Wrangler upgrade list reads like someone's wish list. About everything you could possibly want on a Jeep Wrangler to make it so that you can pretty much do any hard trail anywhere. The only things that would be on the wish list that I can think of that aren't are an Atlas and a supercharger. Rig has 19k on the odometer and all the upgrades were done less than 5k ago. The tires have only 4k miles. Bit of a crying shame....

[RidgeRunner]

SON OF A....... I had a long reply all typed out and accidentally nav'ed away from the page an lost it all.

Anyway, to sum up what I had typed.....

I looked at what the parts are priced at now and it look like they have gone up a bit. I did this for about $750 a year and a half ago, looks like it's over $900 with shipping an tax now. The steering linkages and jamb nuts from JKS to use with stock WJ TREs are $300 alone, I think they were about $210 when I did it. I think those can be done cheaper if you just ream the WJ knuckles for Chevy 1 ton ends and build DOM linkages with tube adapters from Ballistic Fab or something.

A way cheaper fix, an possibly a good option for now, is to use a tie-rod from a V8 ZJ. It will bolt right in and is way stronger that a stock XJ one.

I can provide a complete parts list if you are interested, and I'd be happy to help plan it out if this is the way you want to go. There are a few areas that can be kinda tricky such as tie-rod/diff cover clearance and which unit hubs work best.

There are alot of aftermarket steering packages out there for the XJ/TJ/ZJ setup. I went with the WJ swap because of the bigger brakes that came with it and I liked it better than alot of the packages out there. Just my .02 but I don't like heims (such as Rusty's kit) on a dd rig. I think you can get Reid Racing knuckles for a D30 now but they aren't cheap, and the Terraflex kit is $600 and you don't get the brakes. Currie's kit is just a glorified Stock set-up, stronger for sure, but you still have the drawbacks of the inverted Y design. JCR Offroad does an inverted T set-up, similar to a YJ, with 1 ton ends but their "spacer" for where the tie-rod and drag-link connect will wear out and still have a dead spot @ center. I like the WJ swap because you get a solid pitman arm/ knuckle connection (= no dead spot) still using TREs (available at your local parts store and, just my .02, better for a rig used on the road regularly).

On a side note...Pete, do you happen to have a 1.5" per foot (7 Deg. IIRC) reamer? I need to ream my pitman arm and pass side knuckle for chevy 1 ton ends and I can't justify buying a $70 reamer to do 2 holes.

[Brody]

On a side note...Pete, do you happen to have a 1.5" per foot (7 Deg. IIRC) reamer? I need to ream my pitman arm and pass side knuckle for chevy 1 ton ends and I can't justify buying a $70 reamer to do 2 holes.

Thanks Dave for all of the information on that. If you want to revamp that just a little and stick it into the Jeep Make and Model link thread as a resource, that would be great!

No I do not have a reamer, but I do believe that Bill at Englewood Drive Shaft does.

Englewood Driveshaft Inc
3364 1/2 S Broadway, Englewood, CO 80113-2428 (303) 781-0554 ‎

I was talking to him not too long ago and he was pointing out some reamers that he had gotten for a deal and about how he did some reaming on a Chevy front end. Give him a shout. If he has one you can use, LaDawn, my SO, works Mondays about three blocks from him. She can pick it up, you can get it from us up in Arvada, and we can return it the following Monday or something..

LaDawn knows a guy in Straussberg who probably does, too, but I don't know if that is any closer than we are...He and his son build and race cars and have a full shop. PM me to work out the details or send me an email:peterbrody@gmail.com

[4Runninfun]

I have been cleaning up Dave Pritchett's Jeep Wrangler to get it ready to sell.

Have you guys decided on a asking price for that? I saw his jeep once at a M&G and that was one of the nicest jeeps I have seen.

[Brody]

Well, it has 19,000 on the odometer, and roughly $37,000 worth of suspension/axle upgrades with about 6k miles on them. Dana 60Pro Rock axles F/R with ARBs, regeared to 4.10s, hard, soft and a bikini top(that has never been used), 37x12.50 KM2s (with about 4k miles), a Pioneer stereo, full cage (with speaker pods), Warn 9k PowerPlant (used maybe twice), full skid plates...the list kind of reads like a 4 wheeler's dream, especially for a Jeep. Asking price is going to be geared toward someone who wants a turn key rig and has a wad of dough, so we are going to start at $38,000 or so. Basically, you can stick some gas in it and go run the hardest trails that you want to run. The whole Jeep is essentially brand new (now cleaned and detailed).

[MelloYello]

Thank you Pete and Dave for all of the great steering option to consider. I need to make mine better than stock sooner than later too. I think I will go with the WJ Tie Rod swap for now. It is better than nothing.

[RidgeRunner]

I think I will go with the WJ Tie Rod swap for now.

Yup, it's definately stronger than stock. Go get one off a ZJ with a V8, put new ends on it and bolt it in. Make sure it is a V8 ZJ tho, the 4.0l ones are the same as stock XJ/TJ.

[MelloYello]

Good point. The V8 is much stronger. Is the WJ and ZJ the same?

[RidgeRunner]

Is the WJ and ZJ the same?

No, XJs, TJs, and ZJs with the 4.0l all had the same steering. ZJs with the V8 had a heavier duty tie-rod that will bolt right into the lighter duty setup.

WJs had a completely different steering design. It's a great upgrade but requires some fab work on the front axle, trac-bar mount, sway bar mounts, and WJ knuckles. It can also be kinda expensive, although I think it can be done cheaper than I stated above. I'm working on a better write-up with a complete parts list and hopefully cheaper price tag.

XJ/TJ/ZJ inverted Y steering looks like this:
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0071.jpg

WJ steering looks something like this:
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0104.jpg

[MelloYello]

Thank you for the pics. That helped. I was confused. I will be going with the ZJ V8 tie rod swap for now since I can just bolt it in and not have to fab something up for now.

[Brad]

So, I am surprised John never posted up the videos/pictures he shot of his close call on Green Day....

I agree. What up John? That video is awesome. Well except the part it missed but still worthy of posting. :thumb:

[Cake]

Not sure if you've done it yet:

Moog part numbers
ES3096 Tie rod end (short) 21.99 @ Autozone
DS1312 Long tie Rod 34.99 @ Autozone
ES2079S Adjustment Sleeve 15.99 @ Auto zone