Stupidity at Work: Shoot the Spotter

[Brody]

I am trying this again as I think this is a very good video of what NOT TO DO, the importance of good spotters, the importance of good communication between a GOOD spotter and the driver, the importance of good and understandable hand signals, and, when all else fails, using some simple damn common sense, none of which were brought into play on this video. This video is going to be especially helpful to anyone new to wheeling who may be confused as to the importance of spotters, hand signals, learning to do easy trails first, learning about what your rig can do and approaching harder trails slowly as part of a learning curve with at least one experienced person in the group.

Since this (Front Range 4x4) is a group that has a lot of people new to wheeling as well as people who are very experienced, the video will be more useful to the people who are new. Read what the more experienced people have to say about the video.

This time, please refrain from any specific make and model references (they will be deleted) and understand that no matter what make or model of 4x4 that you drive or favor, you can get into a lot of trouble without knowledge of what you are doing when you take your vehicle off road. It happens very fast. The people in this video were extremely lucky that no one was more seriously injured. This video should also serve as a good reminder that you need to have a basic understanding of first aid, carry a decent first aid kit with you in the back country and, most importantly, have the right mental attitude to deal with a emergency in a calm manner. Panic in an emergency gets people dead.

Keep in mind, too, that 'help' may be quite a ways away, both in terms of time and distance, hence the need for basic 'first response' first aid training. Also note the people shouting to call "911". Pull up this park on the map and look at where the area is located. Chances are that there isn't going to be good cell phone reception and 'calling 911' is a pipe dream. This is even more true in our state where we have higher elevations and lower valleys. Many of the trails in this state have no cell reception whatsoever. As with any outdoor activity that takes you away from civilization, the farther you get away from civilization, the better prepared you need to be, and a good mental attitude goes a long way.

As an aside, try to picture this group of people dealing with a head, neck, or spinal cord injury, broken ribs that have pierced a lung, a compound fracture, a loss of a limb, life threatening bleeding or any one of a number of things that a rollover of this kind can produce. What do you end up seeing in your mental picture? A very dead person is what I see along a bunch of rather stunned and confused people standing or sitting around going 'WTF' and looking for the 'reset' button. Not a pretty picture....

Most of the other threads and blogs on the internet reflect what I said...and it is all over the internet. Just Google Anza Borrego/heart attack hill/jeep rollover. Almost all the 4x4 forums have a thread going on about it. I couldn't find the actual full story, but I didn't look all that hard, either. The driver ended up with a broken back, showing that having seat belts in a 4x4 rig usually means that they are there with a purpose in mind rather than something that gets in the way....

This video was filmed in the Anza Borrego Desert State Park in California, about 2 hours drive from San Diego. It is located just south of Joshua Tree National Park, an area I hit for climbing every time I am in California. It encompasses some 660,000 acres and has approximately 500 miles of off road trails.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyIDNn73H4U

[gm4x4lover]

Communication, best thing you can do before you start an obstacle is set the ground rules for communication. Which hand signals, directions, eye contact and what voice commands mean. The other thing we do when we go out is one person typically spots. And when the spot the first vehicle on an obstacle the finish every vehicle in the group. I truly wonder what the story behind these people on this particular trail. They really dont seem like they belong out on the tougher trails.

[tonkatoy]

I don't know who was more lost the spotter or driver

[Pathrat]

Communication, best thing you can do before you start an obstacle is set the ground rules for communication. Which hand signals, directions, eye contact and what voice commands mean. The other thing we do when we go out is one person typically spots. And when the spot the first vehicle on an obstacle the finish every vehicle in the group. I truly wonder what the story behind these people on this particular trail. They really dont seem like they belong out on the tougher trails.


You are absolutely right and if you don't understand your spotter, do not proceed until you are both on the same page.

[Cr33p3r]

The spotter should never have been spotting!!! Especially that way waving both hands and continually waving the driver to keep moving forward. A big lesson for anyone spotting set up what you are doing with the driver before hand and make sure to use good clear signals and voice communications too!

[Roostercruiser]

thank goodness for cage also

[jesse05lj]

I had seen this video before. and agreed a roll cage is essential!

[EldoradoFJ60]

I would have run that jacknuts spotter over. Or told him to get the hell away from me. Dude's hands looked like he was trying to keep flies at bay.

I think Rob might have been an air traffic controller in a previous life.

[Beefy]

I wanted to punch that spotter in the face from the start!

Makes me happy I have a roll cage....especially with all the spotting Chris (Scrat) seems to do on our runs. :D:lmao::lmao::D

[Rob]

I would have run that jacknuts spotter over. Or told him to get the hell away from me. Dude's hands looked like he was trying to keep flies at bay.

I think Rob might have been an air traffic controller in a previous life.

:lmao: No, but I was a bartender (see comment below), and I think a lot of those skills transfer to the trail. ;)


STOP, DISCUSS, and THEN proceed.

I made people stop drinking, then I discussed their level of intoxication, then I proceeded to call the bouncer over when they got belligerent or tried to hit me with a barstool. :)

[jesse05lj]

Stupidity kills! being a Marine this was evan more so! but it applies to everything in life including 4 wheeling

[gm4x4lover]

I would have run that jacknuts spotter over.


Dude bout got run over when he was in the path of the jeep falling over.

[jesse05lj]

It could have be a tragedy

[Molley]

thats a good one ... I had a great guide person once and i flopped Molley on her side , the other times when i rolled Molley i didnt have guide person .. ...PROUD to say I DID IT ALL BY MYSELF .. lol

[Cr33p3r]

PROUD to say I DID IT ALL BY MYSELF .. lol

Those are the best ones, because they don't count on the STUPIDITY scale where it was due to someone else!

[Brody]

...PROUD to say I DID IT ALL BY MYSELF .. lol

Got a couple of those myself. Pegged the stupid meter all the way into the red with no help at all.

[glacierpaul]

That IS what makes us MEN!:D

[Brody]

Love that feeling. You do something, have the good luck to be able to walk or crawl out of it and stand there and look at the predicament and go "Hmmmmmmmmmm? Now what?" Then "****! That really hurts! Wonder if it's broken?" Or just simply screw up bad enough so that you have some managed to get yourself in a really stupid spot minus any injuries.

Rolled a F150 I had...ass over front...and ended up upside down, smelling gas, my fuel pump going madly, sparks popping from under the hood and only a small section of space left that I could crawl out of...at dusk, of course and by myself. I quickly turned the key off(pretty good thinking, I thought, for having had my bell rung and hanging upside down...), but the pump was shorted and kept pumping merrily away. I managed to get out of the hole in the windshield, though if I had weighed about 30 pounds more, probably wouldn't have fit and the rest of the cab was crushed flat. I ripped the wires from the fuel pump-easily accessed now that the rig was upside down and then did a "Wow!" "WTF!!??"and "Now what?" all the time feeling rather lucky that a stray spark hadn't torched off the whole mess.

Another time was in the winter on a narrow two track. Lotsa snow, by myself as I was simply doing some camping and solo climbing, but had gotten snowed out, but other than that a good day. I was going downhill on this narrow ass road and stopping every hairpin corner to check out what the next section of road was going to bring. I checked the last section and it looked like the road simply turned to the right and continued. I drove almost down to the bottom and realized that where I thought the road turned, it actually dead ended. No place to turn around, so I tried to back up the hill (69 bronco, locked front and rear). HAHA. Kept sliding towards the downhill side. Tired a chain, tried a strap, tried building up a berm, tried a lot of different ****. I finally realized that I had to turn the Bronco all the way around on the narrow two track, essentially in it's own tracks, so that it faced uphill. 6 hours later, using a big ******* Ramsey winch, a come a long, a hi lift and every damn piece of tow strap and chain I had, I was facing back up hill. As I was busting my ass trying to get the situation remedied, I was having a really good "Nice, job, you dumb dipshit!" conversation with myself. All of the camp supplies, food and stuff were, of course, about 5 miles away where I had camped. I had some basic crap with me, but not the good stuff.

[Michael4rnr]

That was a really bad spotter. She is lucky that the roll cage did it's job.

[Brody]

This video of Chris is a result of a bad spotter. In this case, the spotter purposefully spotted Chris into a good 'photo op' ...and dangerous to Chris...situation, simply to get this video. The second video shows me trying to get a wheel off the ground (and barely succeeding) in the same spot. The biggest difference here, aside from the flex in the different suspensions, is that Chris WAS watching the spotter to AVOID getting this tippy and the spotter 'spotted' him INTO this. I knew that I had a long way to go before getting tippy, so it wasn't a concern of mine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=phRy9Z7R0MU

If you can manage not to fall asleep waiting for me to get to the hole....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=3SZlAnpUVkw

[jesse05lj]

nice flex Brody, what is that like 20" in the back

[Brody]

I have never bothered to measure it. I have a limiting strap on the back until I can afford (or feel like) getting the rear driveshaft extended. probably get another 4-6" more flex. probably have to buy longer shocks and they are already punched through the bed.

Bottom line-do I really need it? Not really....That kind of flex picture (and flex) is what always stops me from going links. Why spend all the extra money and time for another few inches of flex?

[Popsgarage]

Why spend all the extra money and time for another few inches of flex?

Pete, you've got 63" Chevys in the rear, correct?

[Brody]

Oh yeah. Best cheapo mod I ever did to my heap, too. Flex way better than the $500 Alcans I had on that kept breaking. I had an anti wrap bar with the Alcans, but when I stuck the 4 leaf Chevy's in the rear, I chopped the overload off about 4" behind the axle. The fronts of the overload act like trac or anti wrap bars, so I removed the rear anti wrap.

[Popsgarage]

Supposed to work and from everything I've ever seen or researched, they flex well enough that links aren't really all that much better. I've got a set waiting to go on the Chevy.

[Brody]

Every time I think about how cool it would be to link my heap up, all I do to get myself back on track is to look at some of my 'flex' shots. I then realize that with about $1200 or more in links, steel, shocks, not to mention labor time, I would only get about another 2" or so over what I have now. As it is, I can run pretty much any trail I ever want to do, providing I can squeeze my rigs fat ass through it.

Do I like linked suspensions? **** yeah, but you have to admit that low tech rivals hi tech in many ways, especially when you are doing a build of primarily a trail rig.

[Popsgarage]

Agreed. Good post on the CAD stuff. I checked out Google Sketch after seeing the bumper Alex drew up on there. And I'm getting ready to check out Joe's post on the CAD stuff. I've been thinking about taking some classes, then think about how little time I already have, and it kinda goes by the wayside. It'd be nice to be able to do some of that stuff yourself, though, ya know!

[jesse05lj]

your rig seems to get the job done already! more flex them i got in mine

[Bunyon & Babe]

IMHO this roll is 99% the fault of the *******DUMBASS spotter. I know I"m preaching to the chior here -- BUT just in case someone new to all this is reading ---- Watch how he actually directs her to put her driver tire in the low spot , and her passenger tire up on the side of the trail all while she's canted 40 degrees to the fall line . I'm sure he can now say with confidence " I have NO ####### understanding of SIMPLE PHYSICS " It's pretty easy to see that had he brought her direct down ,UP ONTO the flat rock next to her driver side tire before he sent her into the depression beside said rock ,she would have been a whole lot better off. I put 1% on her for continuing after the first passenger rear lift off . Never hurts to STOP a second and think things through.

[Bunyon & Babe]

I got to the bottom of the page after Pete's post on the jeep roll over and was so hot to comment on her DUMB spotter ,I did 'nt eralize there was another whole page of thread to follow . DUH Glad I noticed the next page though , the flex in Pete's rig is way nice !

[Brody]

Glad I noticed the next page though , the flex in Pete's rig is way nice !

Cheapo 63" Chevy springs. Got about $100 buck in the whole set up and they run circles around some of the more expensive brands of springs I have run and broken... I also have a limiting strap on the rear diff so that my drive shaft doesn't separate and I am too cheap to have it lengthened. Don't need the extra 4-5" of flex anyway....

[Bunyon & Babe]

Cheapo 63" Chevy springs. Got about $100 buck in the whole set up and they run circles around some of the more expensive brands of springs I have run and broken... I also have a limiting strap on the rear diff so that my drive shaft doesn't separate and I am too cheap to have it lengthened. Don't need the extra 4-5" of flex anyway....
Cheap or not ,they really work ! Are those (63") basicly stock rear k5 blazer or suburban springs ?

[Brody]

No, they are from pretty much any 1988-1998 GMC/ Chevy 1/2 ton. These were from a 94. They come in two versions, a 3 leaf and 4 leaf. See the Chevy 63" FAQ in the last link. I purposefully got the 4 leaf in order to use the front part for an anti wrap device. I cut the lowest( overload) off about 4-5" behind the spring perch, leaving the front portion, and they have worked fine. If you cut it any closer, you will find that the front part tends to track around. I ended up burning the cut part into the spring clamp to stop this.

There is a huge bunch of info in the Toyota make and model links about the 63" swap and what to get them off of. One of the nice things about them is that Chevy stuck them on a million rigs...Most junk yards charge $15 per spring so you end up with a set of springs that act like a $500++ custom set (usually working better because I have had $500 custom springs ) for a fraction of the cost.

Here is my install:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?4407-63-quot-Chevy-springs-on-Brody-s-heap/page2&highlight=63%26quot%3B+Chevy+Spring%26quot%3B

And here is the link in Make and Model:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?3898-63-quot-Chevy-to-Toyota-Swap

[Bunyon & Babe]

Thanks ,Pete . I'll look into that. Just saw your video of wheeling in the snow near Frisco from last year . Awsome . Looks like the wife and I trying to come home after a good dump of snow.lol. Did you fab that rear tire carrier ? If so would you be interested in doing another one and what would you charge. Looks like a basic Martin Crawler rear bumper with beafed up support on the sides and drop down pivots on the bottom. I didn't know MC offered that ,but then I haven't really been paying close attention. I just know I really want to get the spare off the roof and have just started looking at current options. Thanks again for the info on the springs ., Jim

[Brody]

Yes on the tire carrier, but which one??

Sorry, I have done a bunch of them...and on what rig? (For the same reason..)

Post a link to the video if you would...

[Bunyon & Babe]

Yes on the tire carrier, but which one??

Sorry, I have done a bunch of them...and on what rig? (For the same reason..)

Post a link to the video if you would...

MAN !, once again me not paying attention, sorry , it wasn't your post . I was wandering all over the site and a while later after seeing this thought about asking you about the tire carrier. It took a while , but I finally found it again. Its a post put up by Volcom, under Trail Run Reports , titled ," Summit County Rowdy Snow Bashing " 1-8-11. Looks like they had a blast !
You were the last one who had posted to that thread and thats how I ended up thinking , " Petes got the most awsome Toyota truck AND an awsome
4 runner ? " :lmao::lmao::lmao: At any rate , could you fab something like whats on the back of the red 4 runner in this post or would you have another idea on getting my spare off the roof and on the back. Thanks , Bunyon

[COSXJ]

Thanks for the posting Brody; it was very good to see that video. This is one of the reasons why I joined this site, to learn about off-roading. Your point about having some type of first aid kit is spot on and knowing some of the basics about first aid.
Any experienced members feel like teaching a few of us newer members on how to spot and read the terrain? Learn the various hand signals etc.. Maybe in the spring or early summer on a trail that doesn’t really need a spotter but has easy challenges that can be used for training.
I can help arrange something with the help of the more experienced members to teach and find a good trail to use.

[Brody]

Any experienced members feel like teaching a few of us newer members on how to spot and read the terrain? Learn the various hand signals etc.. Maybe in the spring or early summer on a trail that doesn’t really need a spotter but has easy challenges that can be used for training.
I can help arrange something with the help of the more experienced members to teach and find a good trail to use.

Bring this up again just before the regular "wheeling" season starts again. It would be a good thing to do and Chris has already given a couple of ideas for this, but for another run/project.

At any rate , could you fab something like whats on the back of the red 4 runner in this post or would you have another idea on getting my spare off the roof and on the back. Thanks , Bunyon


No problem. This is very similar to the rear carrier I did on the back of Chris' (Scrat's) CJ5 or I can do a swing out in various configurations. I can build pretty much whatever you want...In order: The Red Yota, and then my carriers: Scrat's CJ5, Basic Swingaway with Hi Lift, 2000+ 4Runner double, the swing down on mine, and the swing down on Dave's FJ80. More stuff in the Brody Fab links. What would help is a picture of what you have for a rear bumper right now so that I have a good idea of what I would be working off of. You will notice a big difference with the tire off the roof. My spare has been getting lower and lower over the years....

Let me know via email: peterbrody4@gmail.com

[COSXJ]

Bring this up again just before the regular "wheeling" season starts again. It would be a good thing to do and Chris has already given a couple of ideas for this, but for another run/project.
Sounds good. I will bring it up again around April timeframe.

[Jackie]

I like that idea. I'm a firm believer that ultimately it's the driver that should make the final decision on what line they want to try and to communicate it well to the spotter. Then the spotter should provide the proper hand signals to keep the driver where they wanted to go (and stop them if they are being an ass). Communication is the key. Flapping hands and arms all over the place and having several people yelling is not good. I have been fortunate enough to have people on here choose easier lines for me for various reasons. I appreciate that. No one here wants to see a wrecked vehicle or wrecked people, so there is always a reason!

[Bunyon & Babe]

aaaaaaaaAWSOME ,Pete thanks . I'll get some good pics of the back end and undercarrage tomorrow and e mail them THANKS, Bunyon.

[Colin]

This isnt a spotters fault but it is stupidity at work...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j1_Z6KCJ0s&feature=related

[MelloYello]

WTF. I think that dude needs to have some manners punched into his head.

[Jackie]

What the F was he thinking??? "Outta my way, me first". That was just stupid all around. :erm:

[Rick]

:mad::mad:definately would have more than words after we got on shore!!!!!!

[94ToyBear]

89 Wrangler for sale !!!! just kidding ! holy Shiza ! that is some crazy stuff !

How many agree that One of the first things that should have been done is the battery power should have been OFF ! To avoid any FIRES in this rolled over jeep jeep ! I would !! Would you ! HONK HONK HOOOONK !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrrzwL-A8L8 DONT WANT THAT TO HAPPEND NOW DO WE ???

[Rick]

ok dont yell to the Firemen that they're bullets in the Jeep. what a dumb***!

[Jackie]

"BOOM"...there it is...

[Brody]

Ditto with the back on shore. How many stars can you count in the sky on this bright sunny day, *******? Ooooops, that's way to many, you need to get kicked in the head again....

Yeah....battery off...Whatever it took to do it..

[Chris]

"oh yeah, there are 3 clips in the console."

Packing list:
Got the gun? check
got the ammo? check
Got the fire extinguisher? Duh!

[glacierpaul]

I gueass that would be 'trail rage'?:lmao:

[Colin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5YFMSoEoM0&feature=related

[Brody]

Go driver! Go driver! More Driver! It doesn't matter that passenger is the right way and you are leaning driver's side, hell no! Now go driver and give it gas...

Classic example of someone spotting who should have stayed in the rig...or to the side...and let someone else spot.

All she had to do was to tell him (or her) passenger and he would have been fine once he (or she) got the wheels on the ledge a little. You could see that coming a mile away....Probably made for a sweet and touching night in camp....

[Jackie]

Driver to spotter:

BANG! "And next time, don't talk"

[MelloYello]

You could see that coming a mile away...

X2!!!!! Weed out the idiots, the trails are too crowded anyway.

[Brody]

Just before he backed down, if he had gone passenger side and stayed passenger side, he probably would have pulled that off just fine. I can't figure out where the driver side turn directions got mixed up in the signals. It actually looked like the woman had it going on, but all too briefly. Hell, maybe she wanted to see the Jeep roll, who knows. Personally, I don't like to see anyone roll their rig, because roll bar or roll cage or not, there is a very real chance of someone getting hurt. And any day that you don't have to stop bleeding, stitch someone up, call Flight For Life, or set bones is usually a pretty good one....wheeling or doing anything else.

I also wasn't listening to the dialogue because the computer is usually in mute mode.

This is a small compilation of crash videos from one of the many on the internet. Discounting the professional race drivers who all know they are getting into...and have substantial roll cage protection...you should simply watch this a see if you think your roll bar or roll cage is sufficient protection....and if you don't have one, what exactly would happen to you and your passengers in the event of a roll over....It is fairly easy to spot what went wrong and why. All too often the right foot had a lot to do with it...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8gNC_TJvLw

[Rob]

I almost posted the vid of the JK rollover a few days ago, then read this comment (after reading way too many misogynistic comments): "I have to say, she does know how to spot. She is one of the better drivers in MOAB and I have ridden in her group on many rides. She knows those trails very well. This obsticle is a very tricky spot. One inch off and you will roll. I have done this obsticle twice and each time, it makes me pucker. The line was right, but it happens!"

My only comment is that it sounds and looks like the driver isn't experienced enough to be in Pritchett Canyon, and if I were trying that obstacle (which likely won't ever happen with my current rigs) I'd want an explanation of the process beforehand and I'd want much clearer spotting directions.

I found several other videos of the same woman spotting people up that obstacle. Here's one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu_xSkqwmMU&feature=related

[Colin]

I almost posted the vid of the JK rollover a few days ago, then read this comment (after reading way too many misogynistic comments): "I have to say, she does know how to spot. She is one of the better drivers in MOAB and I have ridden in her group on many rides. She knows those trails very well. This obsticle is a very tricky spot. One inch off and you will roll. I have done this obsticle twice and each time, it makes me pucker. The line was right, but it happens!"
Hmmm I guess I should start reading the comments on YouTube, I usually don’t because they are always just people bashing each other....

[Jackie]

Thanks for the second video Rob. It gave us a better perspective of the "end goal" than the first video did. Looks like a very hairy spot which I would probably never attempt, but in the first video, I thought his mission was just to get up on the ledge, not go way over to the left like that. Straight up and over still looks safer to me, (with more passenger as Brody pointed out) but I guess you'd really have to be there to appreciate it and make a decision.

[ColoJeeper]

When I've done that obstacle, has been in an open jeep, and is easy insurance to attach a tow strap to the rollbar and have a couple of guys on the uphill side hang onto it. Doesn't take much effort to keep a vehicle upright and save that kind of flop from happening.

[Brody]

THANK YOU DON!!! I'll take a strap any day if it may save vehicle damage or a rollover. Never been too proud not to take one, either.

Think about it: You have an expensive rig, whether you have done all the work on it, paid someone to do it, or are still paying it off. In Utah, for instance, you are long goddamn way from home....not to mention that everything 4x4 related is pretty much going to cost out the nose. It doesn't take a bulging brain pan to figure that one out......

[Rob]

... Straight up and over still looks safer to me ... but I guess you'd really have to be there to appreciate it and make a decision.

I watched a video of several built Jeeps trying to go straight up and over. It's steep and has big steps, and no one was making over using the skinny pedal method.


When I've done that obstacle, has been in an open jeep, and is easy insurance to attach a tow strap to the rollbar and have a couple of guys on the uphill side hang onto it. Doesn't take much effort to keep a vehicle upright and save that kind of flop from happening.

I also watched a couple of vids of guys doing that obstacle with straps for insurance. Very smart.

[Aaron]

Did you notice the rig in the background in the beginning of Robs video. It's the JK she just helped roll. I don't think I'd spot again that day but she still is.

[Chris]

Reading everyone's comment made me think about what I would do in that situation. After about 30 seconds I can say I would have turned around.

[Rob]

After about 30 seconds I can say I would have turned around.

Heck, I don't think I would even have gotten up on the first rock.

No spotter in this one, but it looks like a skinny pedal error.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29NUl2m4WKM&context=C367301bADOEgsToPDskI5yr14GN2HMxJk0VTrY9WF

[Chris]

Reading everyone's comment made me think about what I would do in that situation. After about 30 seconds of thought I can say I would have turned around.


Heck, I don't think I would even have gotten up on the first rock.

Poor sentence structure on my part Rob, fixed it.

[Brody]

No spotter in this one, but it looks like a skinny pedal error.

Looks like an add for reasons to install a stinger, too. Skinny pedal error and the fact that his tires weren't aired down very much. I couldn't see why he nailed the throttle so hard when he did. He was in control up to that point and could have simply gotten a strap, backed down, or stopped...

[glacierpaul]

If I was next in line, and saw the vehicle in front of me do this, I would probably not attempt the obstacle due to pucker factor! I do not ever want to do that in any rig!!(roll it that is).

[Brody]

Or just take a strap...I don't mind doing hard junk in my heap if I have the money to fix junk I break...and don't mind taking a strap to avoid the damage when doing an obstacle. Watching someone roll on an obstacle isn't too much different than watching someone attempt a hard climb and falling repeatedly. You do get a pretty good idea where the hard section is....And, of course, you normally have the option of simply not doing the obstacle. There are obstacles on some trails that I just won't do because I don't like the landing or what would happen in the case of a mishap. Doesn't bother me at all, either.

[ColoJeeper]

I suspect that when he felt the front end coming up like that, he probably hit the brake which would have helped it to flop over backwards faster. In a situation like that driving a stick shift, you dump the clutch in and hope that the vehicle will roll backwards some and often will save that flop. Same as coming down off of an obstacle and feeling the rearend coming up and over, you can often save it by hitting the gas and pulling the frontend forward. Think ahead and plan ahead so you already have a plan of action for a given situation.

[Brody]

Here is yet another fine skinny pedal mistake rollover. This one shows just how strong the front windshield of a Jeep is and why it is a REALLY good idea to have the additional cross over/cage support(above the windshield) added to the stock roll bar and cage.....Oh yeah....again with a stinger suggestion. Stingers don't just happen to be a cosmic groovy thing you stick on the front bumper for grins. They save all the damage to the hood....and radiator...and radiator support. You can also see how the whole factory Jeep cage gets tweaked all to **** because of not having gussets. My guess is that, due to the way the factory cage is mounted, sans any cage to frame tie ins, that the whole tub of this Jeep is tweaked beyond saving.

Some of the stuff you see on the 'built' rigs serves a purpose. Almost all of the cage work and gusseting are there for a reason....Your rig, your ass, of course...and your choice...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0LU1Ho4dsY&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[Jackie]

Based on the crowd reaction...did he do that on purpose???

[Rick]

That whole video just looked like a crowd(driver included) of total Idiots

[Beefy]

All of these videos are making me happy to have that roll cage. Maybe I should wear my seatbelt though. :D

[MelloYello]

I like it when the air explodes out of the driver side tires!

[Popsgarage]

X3 Don and Pete!!!!

[Bunyon & Babe]

Wow . How to trash a nice little Jeep. I don't get it ? If I had a purpose built truggy or buggy I would be all over trying stuff where a roll over was a high probability, but for now I don't so I won't. Sure a roll over could happen on a lot of easier trails too ,but without a functioning full cage ,as in BEEFY & EXTERNAL , why go courting it ??? He would have been better off waiting till evening ,while sitting around the campfire, making little paper airplanes and flying them into the flames > 40 or 50 of them ......made from 100 dollar bills . That way he could still go wheeling ...... NEXT WEEKEND !!!!!:D:what::bang::jiggy:

[BLOODBANE]

Roll over are gonna happen. Its just what we do. Not a matter of if, but when.Now before I get flamed, I also believe in a good spotter that you are familiar with. Larry (Warrlord) spots me. Has been for about 12 yrs. I will only follow a couple of other people. I know Larrys hand and voice signals. Normally though I'm running tail gunner and see what is working for everyone and whats not. Like has been said I have a good plan way before its my turn to do an obstacle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/BLOODBANE81230/Trail%20Runs/Almostupthere.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/BLOODBANE81230/bb3.jpg
I would trust this guy on any trail....

[Brody]

This is simply stupidity. You can see this one coming from a long way off. What were these folks thinking....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eiTGUOMrv0&feature=related

[Popsgarage]

What were these folks thinking....

They weren't.

[Bunyon & Babe]

:oops:GEE ,:what: NO BODY IN THAT GROUP COULD HAVE GUESSED THAT WOULD HAPPEN???????

[ShutUpHippie]

A direct quote from the camera man... " we also could have winched down but that would have been for *****'s."

Point and case.

[MelloYello]

Burr. Their brains must have frozen.

[ctracy5]

Am I the only one who thinks it would have been fun in that Jeep?.... minus the freezing water.

[ColoJeeper]

I don't think flopping my Jeep ever fits into my fun factor. I consider a successful trip to be going, enjoying and coming back in one piece with no broken parts.

[ctracy5]

yeah, if I had something older with a cage that I was worried about, guess I am still a little kid at heart. :D

not like I am saying I want to flip, but if nobody is hurt and nothing breaks why not enjoy the ride!

[Rick]

I consider a successful trip to be going, enjoying and coming back in one piece with no broken partsme too!!!!!

[Aaron]

A little gas when he landed the back tires would have gone a long way. So would a strap.

[Chris]

You're welcome to follow me since I have absolutely no problem turning around in what I perceive as a bad situation. I don't care what anyone calls me, I like driving home and rolling is about the last thing I'll risk. Yeah, not very macho but I'm not stupid either.

[BigE]

I am very happy I have a roll cage and i really hope i never find out how good it works. :$

[2000Durango]

Ohhh man that is not good.. That was a nice rig..