Etiquette-noise?

[Heather]

Not sure exactly where to find the answer for this...what is the etiquette for the exhaust on a Jeep when wheeling with a group? Do groups appreciate it if someone's rig isn't loud? We looked tonight at a '74 CJ/Willys that apparently has side pipes off the headers, no mufflers. It's super cool and ready to climb anything, but it's LOUD. It appears to be able to go anywhere (and has, according to the owner). Is it bad form to bring a loud rig to a group outing, or is a mean/loud rig acceptable? What's the general protocol on something like that? Thanks so much for any input. We're prepared to muffle, but it'd be kind of cool to keep it loud, too...

[Pathrat]

Hmmm. I will jump in here with my own opinion. I am not Emily Post but I do appreciate manners and consideration. I would probably be personally irritated about having to listen to loud pipes all day long, especially if I were the rig following yours. Also, it is likely disturbing enough to the wildlife in the areas we traverse to have a bunch of trucks barrel through. We all do like to minimize our impact and I would think lower decibels is a part of that consideration for the environment.
If you are wondering if the Jeep might be too loud, there is a good chance it is.

[Mporter]

I'm with Steph. Also, depending on where you live, you may need emissions stuff, but im not positive on that.

[Rob]

I'll go with Stephanie on this.

[dr350jja]

DON'T DO IT!! Loud off-road vehicles reflects badly upon the whole off-road community. The USFS has implemented a new law that pertains to off-road vehicles, such as ATVs and dirt bikes (not sure if licensed off-road vehicles are affected) which enforces maximum dB levels. Jan 1998 and older is allowed a maximum of 99 dB, and newer than Jan 1998 the maximum is 96 dB. When I'm dirt biking, I can't stand being behind a LOUD bike for hours.

Anyway, the new exhaust limit requirements is actually a GOOD THING. The number ONE complaint that people have about the off-road vehicles is NOISE!!!!! They use that in their cause of trying to get trails shut down. So, if we can eliminate loud off-road vehicles, that should help OUR cause, to keep trails open!!

http://www.sharetrails.org/magazine/article/?id=82

http://staythetrail.org/etiquette/sound.php

http://cohvco.org/newsletter/2009_news.php

Please take time to check out these web sites. They have info about sound testing and keeping exhaust levels down.

Hope that helps.
Jim

[Geno]

I agree overly loud trucks can get to me after a while but heh , If you want the jeep, buy it , and take it to a quality muffler shop and get a exhaust installed that you like, turbo mufflers are not bad on short wheel base 4wd and are pretty cheap, and sound deep but not to loud, my son won muffler certs, at the raffel on the anniversary run, so there is a least 1 muffler shop that is hooked up with our Forum.

[Brody]

Headers are generally a bit louder than regular exhaust manifolds. If they don't have mufflers, then they are really loud. Simply adding any kind of muffler to the headers is going to tone down the noise level a lot.

I have a loud rig if I stomp my foot down. About the only time I do this happens to be on the freeway. Just about all of the off road driving I do is at idle or just off idle due to my gears and so my truck isn't obnoxiously loud. If I have to get out of a mud pit, sure it gets a bit loud, along with anyone elses. In my neighborhood, I pretty much idle down the street so as to not disturb people...

Bottom line, what other people have said pretty much sums it up. Just the mufflers will make it work well noisewise. Basic cheapo auto store generic mufflers will work as will anything else high dollar.

AA Performance Muffler and Brake is the suggested place for the Denver area folks. Off Mansfield and Broadway, just south of Hampden.

Sounds like you are up by me and Sean, so if you want either one of us to weld on a couple of mufflers for you, give us a PM, if you don't want to go to AA.

[Heather]

Thank you much! This is pretty much what we were thinking, but wanted to check JUST to be sure. He's got cat-back Flowmasters on his F-150 now, and it sounds great - the throaty burble. Granted, there is no "cat" in this particular application, but it sounds like it should be cheap and easy tame it! Thank you for the shop suggestions, and the hands-on offers to help. Many, many thanks!

[Brody]

A rather generic Magna Flow that will work from O'Rielly's will run in the neighborhood of $40. I ended up using a Cherry Bomb (louder and for roughly the same price) on my heap when I rebuilt the exhaust not because I wanted it to be louder, but because I was getting tired of having the mufflers rust out at the seams due to the way my exhaust is routed. The Cherry Bomb are basically a tube style with no seams...Louder for sure, but I didn't think much more that a Thru Flow style muffler.

Like I said, the difference in noise comes from when you really stuff your foot in it....something I don't normally do off road driving or traveling through residential neighborhoods...

[Brody]

Hey Mike

Thanks for that input. Been awhile for me around anything but the newer (and wider and longer) Jeeps, so I had totally forgotten about the squirellyness of the older models, especially with some hp behind the wheels.

Definitely something to consider pre purchase. Ditto with the "been everywhere/can climb anything" description. May have been very banged up in the process, with stress cracks around the frame at the steering box or springs mounts (or other areas) that can be easily overlooked.

Thanks again, Mike for mentioning both of these! One of us other "experienced wheelers" should have picked up on this before, but obviously spaced it out, me included...

[scout man]

Wow, now I feel like a jerk! I have wheeled with this group with no mufflers before, but fortunately I have remedied that situation now.

[Brody]

Don't feel like a jerk. You never seemed overly loud to me....granted I am half deaf....but no one complained that I knew about. Like my truck,with or without mufflers, if you don't punch it, it don't get noisy, and you drive pretty carefully, everything I have seen you on.

[Mporter]

Yeah Steve, i've never seen any issues with your trucks noise...now that transfer case on the other hand...

[Fordguy77]

Wow, now I feel like a jerk! I have wheeled with this group with no mufflers before, but fortunately I have remedied that situation now.

I was thinking the same thing when i drove it with no exhaust for a week, and then ripped it off a second time...

[Heather]

Oh no, Mike, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. That's awful. Thank you for the reminder, but I'm so sorry to hear of the tragedy.

This one does have a full cage. Husband called about the exhaust - easy, like you all said. Now we're just kind of waffling on the whole deal, wondering if this is smart to do or not...the rig is SO. COOL. But so impractical...but SO. COOL. It's not just loud when you punch it - it's loud when it's running, period. Thanks again for all the wonderful input!!

[glacierpaul]

My J-20 had no exhaust for awhile, the carb needed replaced and the muffler needed to be re-routed along with the spare tire, used to hang under the truck and both were ripped off when backing up a unfamiliar driveway with boulders for decorative rocks lining each side. Now they are above the frame, and it does not sound like a dragster, a real plus when coming up Fall River Rd. +1 to muffled vehicles, we do not need anti moto folks having any more ammo.

[MelloYello]

IMO - It is not the truck, It is the driver. My family and I have driven and owned CJ-5's over 50 years and they are great. They make a boring trail more interesting because of there small nature. Like everything else, you need to practice to make prefect. Meaning the more you drive it, the more you will know your rigs capabilities. As for a V8 in them, that is the perfect match! If geared properly, the low range is very slow and the high range can take you up I-70 pulling a trailer @ 70 mph. Not to take anything away from the friend that got hurt, that is very sad. But if you like the CJ5 and it is built up and has been taken care of, I would say buy it and have fun. :2c:

[MelloYello]

:confused: double post?

[SCRubicon]

Never had any problems with my 1970 CJ5 and I wheeled the crap out of it. Sure, it wasn't like the new Rubicon. You just have to know the limitations of the vehicle and what to expect. My concern about open headers would be fire.

[Brody]

Make sure the cage is fully "frame tied" not just bolted through floor,

Easy enough to retro if it doesn't have this...anyone that fabs stuff, like myself, can make this happen. Quite a few folks weld and fab on the forum, too...

[Heather]

Ooh, thank you re: roll cage info. Will have to look into that - definitely don't want something that's going to fold up instead of do its job. We went ahead and bought it tonight....it was just too cool/fun to pass up, and cheap. It's in the garage now, after a bit of a struggle getting it home. We'll be spending a few weekends working on it (mainly new steering box...) before it goes out on the road again. We're hoping to hit the trails mid-June, so hopefully by then...it's really cool to hear the CJ-5 fans, too!

[Brody]

Happy to take a look at it when it gets rolling. I can't be too far away from you guys. We are off 62nd and Wadsworth, just east of Wadsworth.

[MelloYello]

Congrats! Post up some pics!

[Patrolman]

Ditto with everything folks said about safety. The Jeep also likely has a c-channel frame. Confirm no problems with it, particularly around the front axle and engine. Anything can be fixed if caught soon enough, or even reinforced to avoid issues in the future.

In regard to the exhaust, consider a bypass. Keep the cool sound for high-way or cruising fun, but have the mufflers for when you need a quiet ride, such as trails or pulling into the neighborhood late.
http://www.superstang.com/powered_exhaust.htm

[Heather]

Happy to take a look at it when it gets rolling. I can't be too far away from you guys. We are off 62nd and Wadsworth, just east of Wadsworth.

That would be AWESOME. We're off of Wads and 92nd. It's in the garage now - we're ready! Thanks so much. It sounds like the husband is going to join up on the forum, too, hopefully.


In regard to the exhaust, consider a bypass. Keep the cool sound for high-way or cruising fun, but have the mufflers for when you need a quiet ride, such as trails or pulling into the neighborhood late.
http://www.superstang.com/powered_exhaust.htm

Oooooh, this is really interesting. Thank you for that!

Profuse thanks to everyone for all the input.

[Brody]

Well, I got a chance to see Chris' (Scrat) new rig last night as did Chris (Fordboy). We were both impressed. That thing is a little tank! Dana 44 front, Ford 9" rear, lockers, good sized meats (35s, I think).

Needs a little TLC and some minor armor, but other than that, it is good to go. Noise level wasn't excessive. Tiny Cherry Bombs on side dump headers don't make for the quietest ride when attached to a V8, but it was only a little louder than mine...Chris is going to stick some Magna Flows in the very limited amount of room there is to quiet it down a bit, but there is going to be no one wondering if this thing has a 4 banger or V8 in it, no matter what is done.

It is going to be a little like learning how to drive a AA Altered Dragster, but once the idiosyncrasies are worked out, this thing is going to be a trail monster...Chris(Fordboy) and I both did the "OH HELL YEAH!!" when we took a look at it.

I will be doing the tire carrier for it as well as some sliders and other armor as needed, the tying in of the roll cage to the frame being a big one. Chris is going to do the other R&R: new TREs and a new/rebuilt steering box being the big stuff.

All in all, a very sweet trail rig. Maybe not one that someone wants to drive all the way to Utah in, but it sure looks like a royal blast!

[gm4x4lover]

I pretty much agree with every body else. But another point to ponder. Could you wheel all day in a vehicle that was that loud? I have had a few ranch trucks that have had broken/open exhaust. Buy the time I spent an hour in them i couldnt wait to get out. Made me miserable.

[Brody]

Even though the mufflers it had on it were a little toasted, it wasn't THAT bad! If you took the mufflers off, it may crack an ear drum....

Of course, I am rather used to a rig that isn't too damn quiet, especially when I don't have the doors on. I had pretty much the same set up as this when I had my 69 Bronco: Big engine, headers, side dumps, stubby little mufflers, short wheel base, big tires, soft top. Was a V8 engine with headers...wasn't going to sound like a SMART car...

I would be willing to bet that Bryan "RedRhino" newly rebuilt rig isn't the epitome of a 'stealth' rig....

At any rate, stubby MagnaFlows are going on soon, so the noise level will be toned down a bit...Neither Chris (Fordboy) or I thought it was super loud...and his ears are way better than mine...

[Heather]

Well, I got a chance to see Chris' (Scrat) new rig last night as did Chris (Fordboy).

It was WONDERFUL meeting you both. Thanks hugely for the time last night. And the quality time Chris spent with my SVT. :steer: