Stock 2003 Jeep TJ daily driver mods advice?

[Heather]

I hope this is in the correct forum; if not, my profuse apologies and I'll look for it wherever it gets moved...

My Jeep (4.0, 5-speed) is first a daily driver, and second as much of an off-road rig as I can turn him into without going broke (ha ha, I'm sure...). I would like to maintain as much of the daily driver aspect as I can (reasonable amount of safety so I can take the kids with me without too much guilt/worry, maintain the reliability, gauges tell me roughly an accurate speed, etc.) but still have a pretty cool off roading vehicle (it's going to take a lot of work for me to overcome the white color).

The first thing I'd like to do (per the husband) is a 4" lift and 33" tires. Is this a good idea? Do people use lifted Jeeps as daily drivers a lot? Are there many drawbacks? I don't care about any lack of ride comfort - I puke in cushy cars anyway. What else has to be done in conjunction with the lift and larger tires, to make sure that everything works correctly and it keeps its safety/reliability?

The second thing I was thinking about is lockers. I hear a lot about the ARB air lockers which sound luscious - but it appears that they're $1K per axle for just the diff part itself...what's the difference between that and like a set of Detroit Lockers? I don't care about having a push-button - I'm fine with manually locking/unlocking stuff or whatever, and might prefer it.

My budget is most of what we get from selling my former daily driver - an '04 SVT Focus (sonic blue, 5 door) that gets painfully great gas mileage. And of course I have to share some of it with the husband's CJ5. So not a whole lot, but hopefully enough to make a difference to my Jeep if I'm careful and get as much advice as possible...

Thanks for reading, and for any input. I really appreciate the time!

[Brody]

Correct forum...no worries...

Let's get some input from the Jeep guys on this!

[Mr6dwg]

You should check into CV joint and custom driveshaft. The stock gearing will suck with the bigger tires. I have a Dana 30 front and a Dana 44 back with 4.11 gears, 33" tires. I could use a little bit lower gears. I get just a little less than 16 miles per gallon on the highway.

[Aaron]

The answer depends partly upon what you want to do... How hard of trails do you want to do and how much money do you want to spend? When I had my TJ, I had fun on trails up to about a 6 (maybe 7) rating and that thing got me everywhere I wanted to go. It was a 97 with a 2.5 suspension lift and a 1.25 body lift on tires which were the metric equivalent of 33 x 12. It's jdawg33's jeep now on the forum. That thing would flex really nicely. Here's the order of things I would do...

1. Armor - Rocker armor is where I would start. The steering box hangs low (just below the front bumper) so that is another thing you may want to armor up although I've never heard of anyone hitting it. I had oil pan armor as well but that may have been overkill.

2. Quick Disconnects - One of the great qualities of a Jeep that I have seen is it's ability to keep all four tires on the ground. Some people get a thrill out of three wheeling but I am not one of those folk. Of course, this is assuming you have quick disconnects. Quick Disconnects for the front anti-sway bar are cheap, easy to install and increase the off-road ability of your Jeep as much as anything that costs five times as much.

3. Lift and tires - Like I said, I went with a Rough Country 2.5" Suspension + 1.25 Body lift. It might sound like a lot of work but now I've put two of these on as a computer geek with a computer geek friend and they are both surviving well. As for tires, this amount of lift did great for 33s and allowed mine to tuck the tires perfectly while flexing. Note however, that with my gearing (3.55), fifth gear became useless unless I was on flat highway.

4. SYE - With 3-4 inches of lift on a short wheelbase vehicle like the TJ, you may or may not notice drive line vibes due to the increased angle your rear driveshaft is now working. The best way to get rid of this is to add a Slip Yoke Eliminator (and a new driveshaft). I had very minor vibes so I did not need this. Depending upon tire width and wheel backspacing, you may need to trim the fenders and/or add spacers to the steering bump stops but those things are minor.

5. Lockers - This is a tricky subject on a TJ. If you have factory Dana 44s and you want to do harder trails and you want to spend the cash, go for it. I had the much weaker Dana 35/Dana 30 combination so the thought of putting lockers (i.e. adding a lot of stress to the axles) didn't appeal to me. I also knew that I would want to re-gear as I had stock 3.55 gears. Again, my TJ took me everywhere I wanted to go without them. If you too have the 35/30 combo of axles, and decide you want lockers, think about re-gearing and getting the super30 and the super 35 kits which get you much stronger axles.

There's my two cents.

[4wdhunter]

If it were me I'd stick to a small lift (2-3") and get either tube fenders or highline tube fenders front and rear. You should easily be able to run 33's and could probably fit 35's. Like mentioned above you may need a SYE and CV driveshaft, but I'm no TJ expert so I'll let others chime in who are more knowledgeable. Armor (rockers, bumpers, skids) will pay for themselves in the long run. I'd probably regear to 4.56 or 4.88 depending on tire size, and I'd personally run selectable lockers in a dd. I'm not a fan of the ARB lockers and I'd look into the Eaton Elocker.

And I'd do things in this order:
1) Armor
2) Lift & tires
3) Gears and lockers

edit: Aaron brought up a good point about the 35 rear axle. It's probably not a good axle to start a build with and I persoanlly wouldn't spend too much money on it.

[4Runninfun]

1. Armor - Rocker armor is where I would start.

absolutely! No matter the rig this is always the very first thing I recommend. Then I would put on the largest tire you can reasonably fit with stock suspension and spend the summer wheeling it. That will give you a far better idea of what YOU need to improve on your rig. Then when next winter comes you can revisit this question and more than likely answer much of it yourself given your personal experience. There are tons of trails you can hit without much lift, and have a great time! Just my .02

[Mporter]

The second thing I was thinking about is lockers. I hear a lot about the ARB air lockers which sound luscious - but it appears that they're $1K per axle for just the diff part itself...what's the difference between that and like a set of Detroit Lockers? I don't care about having a push-button - I'm fine with manually locking/unlocking stuff or whatever, and might prefer it.


For the price, you really can't beat a lunchbox locker (Lock-Rite, Aussie, etc). I recently bought an Aussie locker for the rear of my cruiser (back in November, installed in April) and took it to Yankee Hill just the past week, let me say, I am amazed at how it performed. Only like $350 installed.

http://www.aussielocker.com/index.php/aussie-locker-xd-13530.html (the correct locker for your car)

If you do decide to do any mods by yourself. Let me know as you're not too far away and i'm always down to help.

[Brody]

I hear a lot about the ARB air lockers which sound luscious

Well, that is certainly a first! I have heard lockers called many things, including some pretty evil ones, but 'luscious' takes the cake. That is absolutely classic!:thumb:

Heather, I think you need to contact ARB and see about doing an ad for them (for $$, of course) where you do something like compare the 'lunchbox locker' to the 'luscious ARB locker'...Or doing something along the lines of ARB Lady Lockers and managing to use luscious in the description...

"Say, I see that you are running a locker in the back of your Jeep."
"Yup, sure am."
"Mind telling me what kind it is?"
"Not at all. It is a Luscious Locker."

Silence.....

:lmao::lmao:

[Chris]

I like it! I hope to be able to afford a lucious locker someday! :thumb:

[Brody]

I thought it was an absolute hoot! First time ever for that one...

We need new 4x4 vocabulary words, descriptive or otherwise...

Now added to this thread:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?11838-4x4-Terms-and-Definitions&p=128866#post128866

Thanks!

[Heather]

We need new 4x4 vocabulary words, descriptive or otherwise...

Now added to this thread:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/...866#post128866

:erm:

[Brody]

That link should have gone right to the 4x4 definitions thread. I click on it on my original post and it does, then click on the copied one and it goes to the FR front page. Maybe Aaron can sort this out...

Here is what I added:

loud pedal Accelerator.
low gears Gears that increase the amount of reduction in the transmission, transfer case, or axle. In an axle, they are expressed as the ratio of ring-gear teeth to pinion teeth, so low gears are numerically higher than high gears. (Example: 4.10 gears are lower than 3.55 gears.) Rockcrawlers typically have low gears.
low-lock To have the transfer case in 4-Lo therefore locking out the center differential, if so equipped.
Luscious Descriptive phrase coined by one of our members (Heather) to describe especially good after market 4x4 products..:D

[Heather]

(Sorry, wrong emoticon selection - that was me whistling, indicating nothing to see here...lol)

[Fordguy77]

Are you listing the Focus on CL? if so can you please send me a link.

[Heather]

Are you listing the Focus on CL? if so can you please send me a link.
Yes, and done!

[BlackRubi]

Go with rocker protection first. Talk to Brody about it.
If you are trying to keep it cheap, look at a coil spacer lift and/or flat fenders (Bushwacker has flat flares, or you could look at full flat fenders).
If you are wanting to do a full lift, if you go over about 3 inches, go with a CV driveshaft for the rear at least. I'm not going to suggest a brand, that has to be your decision, just make sure that you research it first and get the most bang for your buck. Don't just buy a name.
I won't go into tires. Again, your decision. I have my tire source bias, and we will leave it at that.
As far as lockers go, Detroit Lockers don't break. And you don't have to do anything. They do all the work.
Gearing, upgrade it. 4.10 or 4.56 or 4.88 should do it. I would probably go with one of the latter two.

[Heather]

Thank you so much, everyone, for the input. It's totally helping to sort/categorize stuff in my head. If I skipped the lift for now and went with the flat fenders (husband's been talking about these) and, say, meaty 33s - would I still have to worry about the gearing? I really enjoy actually getting some use out of 5th gear, and would hate for it to be useless unless going downhill. (ETA: What about a 2" or a 2.5" lift?)

For armor, not knowing anything about what's good and what's just hype - what's a quality brand? I don't want to get sucked into great advertising/web presence, and wind up buying something that's less than sufficient. I realize probably everyone has different opinions, but I'd love to hear them if you have the time/inclination.

[BlackRubi]

Don't go with Bushwacker "armor". It is just plastic. Their flat flares are good and have a nice look, but the "armor" is junk attached with 3M tape.
You can maybe get away with 33s and no regear, but in the long run you should look into it, in my opinion.

[Roostercruiser]

Tr your Jeep this weekend on slaughtearhouse. And then from there see where you want to build

[Mporter]

Tr your Jeep this weekend on slaughtearhouse. And then from there see where you want to build

X2. Take it on a run and then decide what is a NEED and what is still a WANT

[Chris]

For armor, not knowing anything about what's good and what's just hype - what's a quality brand? I don't want to get sucked into great advertising/web presence, and wind up buying something that's less than sufficient. I realize probably everyone has different opinions, but I'd love to hear them if you have the time/inclination.

I recommend Brody Fab for armor, Pete's built my sliders which everyone shpuld have before finding they need them. He's also bolstered my stock "armor" by turning it into something that will provide protection instead of looking cute. Finally he can suggest a lot of little touches that will save you damage as well.

An alternative is to go to HCP and buy everything you need for 10 times what Pete charges. ;)

[Colin]

Don't go with Bushwacker "armor". It is just plastic
They should change their name to "bushcrackers"

[Heather]

I recommend Brody Fab for armor, Pete's built my sliders which everyone shpuld have before finding they need them. He's also bolstered my stock "armor" by turning it into something that will provide protection instead of looking cute. Finally he can suggest a lot of little touches that will save you damage as well.
With great appreciation, I think my Chris has him busy for the next while...

(For the record, not into cute. The fact that it's remotely cute now is killing me. I'm a rolling stereotype. Not cool. lol)

[Hypoid]

I'm a rolling stereotype. Not cool. lolOMG!!! You've become that girl, driving in the big city, tossing her hair to the wind as she drives her JEEP brand automobile.

What everyone else says:
Recovery points
Armor
Sway bar disconnects
Maybe a budget boost for a couple inches of lift.

Wheel it for a season and get aquainted with how it handles. If you get inchitis, you can always sell the budget boost to help pay for all the extra parts you wind up replacing.

[Brody]

But it is a cute Jeep....:D

What Mike said....about the Jeep...not anything else...

[Jackie]

Pete added some steps onto my Rubicon sliders which turned out really great. Extra protection off-road as well as at the mall (no door dings):D

Seriously... talk to Pete and Sean. They'll do it right. Oh, and I'd get the swaybar disconnect as soon as possible. Makes all the difference in the world.

[Heather]

Pete's already fabricating on Sunday for the husband (can't wait can't wait can't wait)...maybe we should just live in his driveway...Thank you all so much for the suggestions. I think I have it narrowed down, more or less, and I realize (and look forward to) that there's a lot of opinions I'll develop as I go wheeling and learn...I just need to do enough now to ERADICATE THE CUTE of the stockwhitejeep and make him MINE.

[Chris]

We will transform it from "cute" to "luscious" in no time there wifey!!!!

:rolleyes: Checking the memberlist for a username of "luscious" :rolleyes:

Nope, not yet! :lmao:

[Rob]

maybe we should just live in his driveway

I've tried it, but he makes you go home at the end of the day. :)

[daveIT]

ARB front, lunchbox rear...

I woundn't recommend an auto locker like the Aussie in the front...if you commute, drive in snow, etc

[Hypoid]

Some used parts have been posted on another board. I couldn't tell you if those prices are appropriate for used equipment.

http://www.cojeeps.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?23-Parts-for-sale

BTW, signing up on that board is free.

[DHYDR8D]

I would look into the LCG (low center of gravity) I got 35's on my '06 with no lift. Also the tummy tuck skid plates are a great way to get more clearance with out losing the driveablity of the Jeep. I now have a two inch lift but My Jeep is a Daily Driver and I have no problems with it other that the crappy MPG. Check out ROKMEN.COM They have the nicest stuff around.

[otisdog]

Heather I would recommend as others have a smaller [2"] suspension lift and a 1" body lift or the tube fenders etc. This will eliminate the neded for an SYE/CV for the moment and enable you to run 33's.
One thing that would GREATLY help us to help you is to know what rear axle you have and what gear ratio you have. My 03 Sport has a d44 rear axle and 3.73 gears which is "ok" for 33" tires. Also knowing what rear axle you have will help to determine what locker would work best. Heck - due to being a po' boy I have been running open diffs for years !!
There are basically two kinds of lockers - auto and selectable. Selectables are the most expensive and the most desirable because you can turn them off or on. Auto lockers engage and disengage by themselves and cause some strange things to happen on the road especially in snow and ice - you have to be careful.
There are two kinds of auto lockers - there's the kind like the full Detroit which replaces the whole carrier and requires a partial resetting of the gears "expensive". The "lunchbox" type are the cheapest and easiest to install - they replace the side and spider gears.
What kind of rear axle do you have? There should be a tag on there that will state the gear ratio.
Jim
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/otisdog4/dana4435.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/otisdog4/tag.jpg

[Heather]

What kind of rear axle do you have? There should be a tag on there that will state the gear ratio.

Ooh, thank you. I was wondering about how to find out about this. It's definitely a stock TJ Sport, but I didn't know if they're all the same, or if there can be some tweaking when ordering them, etc. I'll have a look this weekend!

[Mporter]

Auto lockers engage and disengage by themselves and cause some strange things to happen on the road especially in snow and ice - you have to be careful.

This may sound discouraging, but the road manners of an Aussie or Lock-rite are very manageable and most of the time you can hardly notice it. But get them off road, and you'll be amazed at what you can do compared to stock.

[Fordguy77]

What is the real problem with lockers in the rear in the snow? Weather Ive been in a 1 wheel bandit, or a locked(all brands including Lincoln) And it has never seemed to make a difference. The rear end just seems to kick out, in the one wheel bandit, it pulls to that side, and in the locked it is just one direction or another. Can someone please explain the problem with lockers in the snow to me...
Ive also been stuck on perfectly flat ground countless times in a unlocked rig because one tire is on ice, and the other dry pavement....a locker would of kept me from having to get out and push more than once...

[otisdog]

My experience with a locker in the snow is that you fishtail much more easily going around corners. I've also gone down high crown roads literally sideways because the rears are locked. This may not be a big deal to most guys but I mention this to Heather, an inexperienced girl trying to learn. She should be aware of what a locker can do in the snow and ice.
Jim

[Fordguy77]

My experience with a locker in the snow is that you fishtail much more easily going around corners. I've also gone down high crown roads literally sideways because the rears are locked. This may not be a big deal to most guys but I mention this to Heather, an inexperienced girl trying to learn. She should be aware of what a locker can do in the snow and ice.
Jim

Thank you for your explanation. There was a reason i asked, mainly because i didn't know. I grew up in LWB vehicles that have all been RWD. Every pick i've ever had has been a long bed. Even when i had an extra cab and crew. So fish tailing isnt really the big of a deal to me because i am so used to, its what trucks do, they have no weight in the rear, and it does what it wants in the snow. I learned to drive in the Iron Range in Minnesota, where its winter 8 months a year. I believe the reason its not a big deal to me, is when your in a LWB rig, you have a lot more reaction time to correct for fish tailing, a lot of the time even "feeling" it before it happens. However i could see where this would be not very much fun in a SWB, and where it can be dangerous. I guess it all comes down to the vehicle you have, and what your comfortable with.

[Chris]

As a former Minnesotan you know how to drive on snow so it's nothing you need to worry about Chris. ;)

[Brody]

This may sound discouraging, but the road manners of an Aussie or Lock-rite are very manageable and most of the time you can hardly notice it. But get them off road, and you'll be amazed at what you can do compared to stock.

What Matt said. I have had lockers or a spool in every 4x4 I have ever owned since 68 or 69 (Which is a mess of them...long wheel base, short wheel base and everything in between)....and in many different states, including many with really bad winters and really bad ice...Colorado snow and ice ain't **** compared to the Midwest, Washington state, Oregon, or East Coast winters. Lockers are simply something that you learn to drive with. All the BS about lockers being "so scary", yada, yada, is just that...BS.

As a former Minnesotan you know how to drive on snow so it's nothing you need to worry about Chris.

What Chris said. You learn to drive in the Midwest in winter in anything, 2WD or 4WD, locked or unlocked, front wheel drive or rear wheel drive, and you can drive the "patches" of ice that Colorado "sometimes" has on the roads...

[otisdog]

Here again - we are talking to Heather. She's not a rough -tough that grew up in the midwest. She's an inexperienced girl trying to learn about this stuff.
And I am from Ohio so I know all aout the midwest. I also drive a tractor trailer here year round and spend many hours in the icy patchs in the mountains chaining up etc.
Jim

[Jackie]

I grew up in Minneapolis too! Give me a car with 4 wheels and I'll figure out how to get it out of the snow bank. Sometimes it means holding two dollar bills out the window till somebody shows up with a chain. (But that was years ago - It could cost more now). GOD, I hate that state. (Dig-dig-dig... are you tired yet???)

You should have seen it this past winter. The snow banks were so high that you couldn't safely back out of any parking spot! Getting out of the driveway was iffy as well.

[Heather]

I would look into the LCG (low center of gravity) I got 35's on my '06 with no lift. Also the tummy tuck skid plates are a great way to get more clearance with out losing the driveablity of the Jeep. I now have a two inch lift but My Jeep is a Daily Driver and I have no problems with it other that the crappy MPG. Check out ROKMEN.COM They have the nicest stuff around.

I am SO digging the LCG. Hubby and I went down to Rokmen tonight and met with Jeff. It was hard not to slip on my own drool (repeatedly). The rigs in there are NUTS. They have this modification package called the "Freak." It's unbelievable. And none of them have more than a 2" lift and they are absolute MONSTERS, but could easily be (are) daily drivers (and fit in a standard garage). We ordered the tummy tuck, sliders, rear quarters, and a steering skid plate. Got to take some of the stuff home with us tonight, the rest'll be here in about a week and a half...Going to kick out some of that "cute." The stuff is going to be black powder coated. Hopefully Chris won't have worn our welcome out at Pete's by the time the rest of the stuff comes in...


Here again - we are talking to Heather. She's not a rough -tough that grew up in the midwest. She's an inexperienced girl trying to learn about this stuff.

Almost...sort of. Grew up in Michigan, but it kind of doesn't count, because even though I got my license there, we moved here at the tail end of my 16th year, so didn't get a whole lot of real winter (icy) driving under my belt, for sure (one solid winter, maybe). I'm definitely completely inexperienced with off-roading, trying to learn about this stuff, and all the info you guys and gals have contributed has been SO helpful - all aspects of it, and especially the debate-ish stuff, to hear both sides of the various opinions - thank you so much to everyone for your time in this thread. I really feel like it's the opinions that've helped me decide which step to take first (armor) and how to proceed hopefully after that. And now at least a lot more of the stuff I'm hearing everywhere else actually makes sense!

I'm one of the people that hated when ABS came along. And now, assisted parallel parking? Really? That's not REAL driving! For lockers, I'd probably like it to be something completely manual, even if it is inconvenient, and probably regardless of what the various feels are...because I prefer more basic mechanics. Lock when you get to the trails, unlock when it's time to go home (assuming that exists, that that's how the manual ones work?) Having said that, yeah, pretty sure even after all these years I'd still poop myself if (when) I hit a patch of ice, regardless of locked or unlocked. Like my youngest son says in one of his pirate jokes, "Gimme my brown pants."

[Hotchef181818]

Awesome u guys made it to rokmen tonight. I live about 500 yards from them. It's a lot rougher than people realize.

[DKDunn04]

I had a Detroit in the rear axle of my first XJ at the age of 18, and I didn't have any problems driving in the snow. My current XJ had a lock-rite, and now it has a Detroit. I went a year and a half with the lunchbox with no issues driving up and down Berthod(sp) Pass, covered in snow, going to our cabin in Grand Lake. I only drove a couple weeks with the new Detroit in when I was on leave in February, but I drove it to grand lake on ice and snow covered roads with no problems.

[otisdog]

I think this has gotten all blown out of proportion. I've driven with a lunch box locker and know what they do. My intent was simply to warn her that auto lockers have some quirks on the road and caution is warranted in slick conditions. I'll probably put a Detroit in my current Jeep.
Jim