another trail closed

[4Runninfun]

Found this on CO4x4


Hello Everyone,

I am the VP of the Horsetooth 4 wheelers club in Fort Collins and I do not post too often here, but would like to communicate to all of you some bad news regarding the upper portion of our adopted trail, Crystal Mountain #344, which will be closed for the 2011 season due to a State Land issue. This is not because of any erosion or trail damage. There happens to be a road that connects the beginning portion of the trail to the upper portion that will be gated and locked due to an issue that will be discussed at a later date. There will be no access to the upper portion. This really bad news to the 1000's of trail users that recreate in that area. We are working on a proposal for access to the upper portion during the 2012 season, but need to work hard in getting the proposal ok'd. More news to come when it becomes available on IH8Mud

I will check back here for comments as well...

Thanks

Bob Paul

[Haku]

Its been posted twice already....but always worth another post since its a big time bummer....

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?12222-Crystal-Mountain-trail-may-be-getting-shut-down...&highlight=crystal+mountain

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?12794-Crystal-Mountain-Closed&highlight=crystal+mountain

If anyone wants backstory, essentially the issue is that there is a piece of land that encompasses the "playground" area and part of the trail that the Forest Service has been leasing to a group of private individuals. Not sure exactly the details since they haven't really been released, but supposedly the lease has transferred to a different group of people. The previous group allowed access to the trail as long as you didn't stray from it, camp or linger too long. There were signs posted to this effect (though they were small and in not particularly visible areas). The new lease holders have decided they don't want to allow access to anyone, which is why it was shut down.

My main issue with this was that there was no public inquiry that I have heard of. I understand the concerns of the lease holders, but a minor restructuring of the leased area would have allowed access to the general public. As far as I know, the lease holders are only using it for hunting and camping purposes (not mining or other uses). As part of the lease the lease holders are responsible for installing the gate and its questionable on whether they can press charges without it being installed and locked if you run the trail. Personally I wouldn't risk it.

The proposal to make a new trail to link the upper portion of the trail to the main road is great, but access would still be barred to the most fun area of the trail, namely the playground area. Still, having a new trail made isn't in the cards for this year I imagine, since they would probably want to do a study and surveying and all the legal BS that goes along with it (like they DIDN"T do for the leased area). My hope is that its not a long term lease, and that when it comes up next time the general public (you and me) can get together with a bunch of the other people and essentially buy out the lease from the guys who have decided to hog access to one of the best trails in Colorado.

On the plus side, Moody hill is still open for now, as is the Quarry area on it. Not sure if its still worth the drive up, but at least there are other trails worth doing in that area still too. Kelly Flats is less then 30 minutes away, as is Bald Mountain/Green Canyon or whatever. A Kelly Flats/Moody trail day is very doable though, so I'll probably still do it this year even without Crystal being open.

Not sure if there is an official movement going to push for trail access, but hopefully the Horsetooth guys will keep everyone posted.

[Mr6dwg]

OK. I'm pissed!

[Fordguy77]

I think i saw something about this last year, ill have to search for it.

[Haku]

Its been ongoing since the end of the main wheeling season last year. That is around when the lease changed hands and the new lease holders decided they didn't want to allow access. Previous to that, I had a brief encounter with the previous lease holders when camping in that area. They definitely made it clear that straying off trail was unwelcome and that even lingering around the playground area for any significant amount of time was a no no. They were all done up in Hunting garb and holding shot guns though not in a threatening manor. He pointed out signs, which were hard to see and even harder to read, and pointed out that the FS maps had it marked too. He seemed fairly cool about it, but it doesn't sound like that same cool attitude has continued.

Any other news or information people have heard would be appreciated from me at least.

[Brad]

I am glad it is the same trail posted. I thought we lost ANOTHER trail.

[Haku]

Found a picture of how much of the trail is encompassed by the parcel being leased (everything in the green box)...

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc129/newracer/Crystal%20Access/Crystalcropped.jpg

Its much larger then I initially thought it was or by how big the FS maps even make it look. It pretty much is 90% of the Crystal Mountain trail. There is still talk about negotiations with the lease holders possibly allowing access. Guess we'll see.

[Brody]

I am glad it is the same trail posted. I thought we lost ANOTHER trail.

We are sure to see more despite volunteer trail clean up efforts. Left Hand Canyon is most assuredly going to be shut down due to the garbage and trash that people leave there. The Forest Service is simply going to get tired of dealing with all the BS and will use some "environmental concern", "save the fishes", "save the blue toed vole" BS to assuage the general populace that it is a good thing for everyone ....Carnage Canyon Boulder, a mostly dried up creek bed of absolutely no use to anyone except for people who wanted to run a fairly hard trail...it didn't even have any decent views...was closed due to some lame BS about "water source pollution". Bullshit is right...

The FS 322A road that used to be a cool shortcut to get to FS322 (Balanced Rock Road) was closed for that reason and the fact that no one was paying any attention to the FS signs about not driving certain areas. They installed new signs, these got trashed or removed. They installed a gate and that was trashed and removed. Now there is a very serious gate and the area is pretty much permanently closed because no one respected the original signs. If people continue to be such idiots in areas like these, it shouldn't be a huge surprise to find more areas getting closed. We have enough to deal with as far as owner access issues (like Crystal Mountain) and many of the climbing areas, that trashing an area out only adds fuel to the fire...

All this, coupled with the media concept that 4Wheelers are a bunch of trashy, rowdy white trash hicks (and judging from the amount of Bud, Natty Light, and Coors cans we all pick up, also have no clue what a good beer tastes like..) and the fact that the 4 wheeling community is small with an equally small lobbying force, we are on the losing side of that war before we even enter the first battle.....

The Crystal Mountain thing has been going on for a long time.

I have seen more trails closed since 1970 (when I got here to Colorado) than I can count. Ditto with rock climbing closures. Seldom, if ever, do trails actually get reopened, the Gulches and one or two others being exceptions. Seldom, if ever, do rocks get reopened for climbing. Most get closed and stay closed.

[Coonburger]

Yeah Left Hand Canyon is not gonna make it past this year it is a just a big garbage dump. I wouldnt mind doing a clean up run there but would it be worth it?

[edog]

I think Left hand had a fire up there yesterday, I also think it will get closed soon.

[Coonburger]

yeah its honestly wasting tax dollars at this point with the people that keep messing it up and for the record there is not nothing wrong with rednecks and hillbillies. White trash is a whole another ball game just wanna make sure thats clear and i love drinking PBR :). A good beer that is full of flavor and just plain awesome , fat tire emmm good. The problem though is not the trial it is the people and they are just gonna migrate to somewheres else and start messing that up. We do have a solution for that in michigan but i dont think that would go over well here.

[4Runninfun]

Sad thing is CO4x4 does a great job every year cleaning up that area. They get HUGE dumpsters and fill them. And within a few months it goes back to looking exactly the same. People like that are what is going to close this state down. Nobody wants to look at that kind of mess.

Here closer Rampart Range is getting to be the same way. Used to be that you could drive up Mt. Herman and yeah there'd be a few things shot up. But now people think it's ok to bring a TV up into the woods shoot it and leave it!:mad: When I go shooting I don't even leave my brass behind. It's called respect, and responsibility. Two things disappearing faster than the Black Rhino!

[Coonburger]

true story there mommy's and daddy's should have grabbed em by the scruff of their necks and taught them some. Also thanks for all the people in Co4x4 for doing those clean ups we just gotta keep doing what we can and fighting the good fight

[Chris]

We'll always see 4x4 trails bulldozed like Rampart & Slaughterhouse when the users continue to trash the area. I don't fault the FS for getting fed up with people like that and if they choose to shut down LHC I won't miss it or be PO'd about it either.

[Coonburger]

I would not miss LHC but its like a ball of snow rolling down a hill its just gonna get bigger and pick up more momentum. That is the issue with these shut downs. All we can do is do more clean ups bout once a month of our trail and other groups should do the same thing. This is a serious suggestion and dont see why could not do it.

[4Runninfun]

We'll always see 4x4 trails bulldozed like Rampart & Slaughterhouse when the users continue to trash the area. I don't fault the FS for getting fed up with people like that and if they choose to shut down LHC I won't miss it or be PO'd about it either.

True and I understand your sentiment Chris. However I'd rather keep LHC open and have one place to clean up rather than a hundred. One thing that happened on Mt. Herman is there used to be (more or less) one shooting range. Then the FS decided to close it. Now there are 20 places that people go shoot. Sometimes it does pay to consolidate the morons.

[Heather]

We do have a solution for that in michigan but i dont think that would go over well here.

(Where in MI are you from? I'm from Dexter. Whole family's still back in MI.)

That totally sucks about the trails closing. We'll be out for the June 18 cleanup. Is there some sort of lobbying group or something around to get involved with, too?

[Haku]

I honestly think that they WON"T close LHC for the very reason Jon posted. I believe they have stipulated before that they believe having that as a "sacrificial" area will save damage elsewhere. Shutting down LHC would just make people go elsewhere. You could already see that happening at Bunce School. A bunch of people shooting (and not picking up their crap) and running all over the place on ATV's.

For LHC, I don't think its the "wheelers" that are the problem, or at least not most of them. I said the other day that I really wish I had a "before" picture of the shooting range when the 4x4 crowd actually maintained things and such. It wasn't great now, but it was spiffy clean compared to how it is now. I think closing Carnage was the worst decision that the BRD has ever made, since they alienated all the people who really cared and would show up for cleanups and to help maintain the place.

I say let it stay open, but don't expect me to be up there helping clean the place up. I think they need to get some of the local gun clubs up there to help maintain it, since that seems to be the primary user type on many of the days I've been up there. Its spread to other parts of LHC now too.

[Chris]

Now there are 20 places that people go shoot. Sometimes it does pay to consolidate the morons.

Good point Jon, maybe dedicate LHC to that purpose.

[Haku]

(Where in MI are you from? I'm from Dexter. Whole family's still back in MI.)

That totally sucks about the trails closing. We'll be out for the June 18 cleanup. Is there some sort of lobbying group or something around to get involved with, too?

Stay the Trail does a fair amount of lobbying. There is another Colorado based lobbying/advocacy group that does a lot of work in that area too. Can't for the life of me remember the name. I know the Colorado 4x4 Clubs parent group that both Rising Sun and Mile High Jeep Club fall under does a fair bit of advocacy too.

Traditionally, its been a bit hard for people to get together and do a single push together. ATV groups don't talk to Jeep groups don't talk to Mountain Biker groups etc. Meanwhile, the more gung ho Environmental/Wilderness advocacy groups have banded together and seem to have a larger voice and more money to throw at it. I'm as concerned as the next guy about maintaining our environment and such, but closing it off to the public is not the way to go about it (which is what the Wilderness/Wild Lands act is trying to do.

At the end of the day, its a small group of people with a heck of a lot of power to decide on whether trails remain open or closed. Its hard to figure them out too, since they often make very illogical decisions and conclusions. For whatever reason (and there are many stated ones), the Forest Service and BLM has decided to start limiting public access to public lands and trails. Doesn't make for a very happy making feeling.

Colorado IS lucky though. Many other states either have very little public land, or the land that is public is almost completely shut down. People in the South and East Coast almost exclusively have to wheel at paid and privately owned "Offroad Parks". They don't have the great access that we in the western part of the country get. That doesn't mean we should just "count our lucky stars" and not fight trail closures, but it does give you something to be thankful for.

[Speedwagon]

Not that I'm for closing trails, but:

If, when they close a trail, they would put a sign up that gave the real reasons it was closed, it might go a ways to educating the people that get them closed. Ignorant people are ignorant. They aren't going to take the time to look up and see why something happened. A big sign that said "closed because it's too expensive to keep cleaning this trail" might make people think about what they are doing. I think most people that do that type of thing, just aren't thinking about the consequences. There are always some that will do what they want, regardless. But I believe(or want to believe?) that if most people were educated, and knew the area would get closed, they just might stop. Ignorant fools consort with ignorant fools. No one is there to tell them the right way.

[Brody]

I agree; the whole respect and responsibility thing should have been taught a long time ago...at this point, can't it just be beat in? Seems reasonable to me!

HAHA....a man after my own heart. The direct approach....but oh so politically incorrect..

Still, people do tend to remember a bloody nose longer than they do some name calling...I have gotten into a couple of tangles with people throwing trash down both in town and in the hills..