GPS?

[Heather]

I searched the forum and came up with nothing on this topic, but I must've done the search wrong. It has to have been previously discussed...what are people's preferences, and the pros/cons on GPS systems/brands? Chris doesn't have a speedo, and the Tom Tom sounds kind of attractive for that reason...do they all have the speedo option? What do you guys use and why do you like it, etc.??

[4Runninfun]

It depends what you are looking for. Are you wanting something for navigation around town? Or something to aid you when out on the trail?

If you are looking for an around town nav, my preference is the Garmin units. I like their setup and interface more than the others. And for the record I don't own one, this was simply my impressions when my :princess: was looking at getting one. So I'm sure there will be others who have more experience.

If you're looking for something more for the trail I have used a Garmin5. Very basic, displays way points, and you location. No pre-loaded maps. It did show roads and even some pretty small country roads as well. I liked it because it was basic and it also forced me to use paper maps. I don't like relying purely on technology.

[GaryG]

I have a Garmin Nuvi 750 with TOPO maps, and also use my phone with Backcountry navigator when wheeling. Both have speedo and trip recording options. With my phone I can create cool maps like this track from the trip yesterday...
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pSX6cc1FuMg/TeT8gpR2FHI/AAAAAAAAA1A/n1vnlJGgMj0/BunceGPCTrack.JPG

[Andrew]

I have a Garmin GPSMAP 60CSX. It's not really a driving directions one, though it can do it. I use it more for loading trail tracks and hiking and such and I have all of Colorado on it in TOPO maps.

[BlackRubi]

If you are eligible for a phone upgrade, look into that option. I'm a bit anti-iPhone. Not because it is a bad smartphone, but because it has become more of a status symbol, but I'll leave that topic alone for now. I have a 4G android smartphone. One of the apps that I have is Ulysse Speedo. It is a free app, and it is pretty much dead on with what my speedometer says. I didn't really get it for the speedo, but more for the Heads-up display. I just lay it on my dash and it shines my speed as a reflection on my windshield. I got hooked on this after driving my wife's car with a HUD.

Ulysse also has an app called Ulysse gizmo which has another speedo, clinometer, and some other stuff.

The GPS in my phone is great and includes topo maps. I can also use Google MyTracks to record trip data (route, elevation, time, speed (high speed, avg speed, etc.) and other junk).

Just an option.

[Haku]

If you are eligible for a phone upgrade, look into that option. I'm a bit anti-iPhone. Not because it is a bad smartphone, but because it has become more of a status symbol, but I'll leave that topic alone for now. I have a 4G android smartphone. One of the apps that I have is Ulysse Speedo. It is a free app, and it is pretty much dead on with what my speedometer says. I didn't really get it for the speedo, but more for the Heads-up display. I just lay it on my dash and it shines my speed as a reflection on my windshield. I got hooked on this after driving my wife's car with a HUD.

Ulysse also has an app called Ulysse gizmo which has another speedo, clinometer, and some other stuff.

The GPS in my phone is great and includes topo maps. I can also use Google MyTracks to record trip data (route, elevation, time, speed (high speed, avg speed, etc.) and other junk).

Just an option.

For anything Android OS (phones or tablets), Oruxmaps is a free and open source GPS navigation software. Its similar to Backcountry Navigator (which you can also get for Android I believe) except you can choose which maps to download. It can do anything from google/microsoft maps, earth and terrain to TerraServer topo maps, and a bunch of a other ones. Downloading is a bit finicky, but its not horrible. If you have a data connection it can download them directly in "online mode". It uses the phones internal gps to navigate.

I used my Android Tablet with this in Moab, and it saved our buts a couple different times. I downloaded the Microsoft Earth maps for the entire Moab/Canyonlands area since it was the most detailed and up to date. You can plug in .gpx tracks like the ones that Trail Damage provide, and its works great. It is surprisingly accurate.

My phone's GPS unit sucks though and looses connection often, so I just bought a separate GPS receiver that connects via Bluetooth. I haven't gotten it yet, but I'll update when I do.

If you want to check out the website its http://www.oruxmaps.com/index_en.html. Its a multi language/international site, so if it doesn't come up in english click in the british flag at the top.

For what its worth, the Backcountry Navigator was made by a local Coloradan, and looks to be pretty cool too.

[Heather]

This is all such great information - thank you! This would definitely be for off-roading, but having on-road as an option would be good, too. I have an (3G, too soon for an upgrade) Android Incredible (I'm with you, BlackRubi, and no offense intended at all for those who have and like the iPhones - my oldest son is a fan, too, and we debate repeatedly) and I will check out the apps listed to see if I have access to Backcountry Navigator and Oruxmaps, etc. I love Gary's map thing - that would be so cool to be able to chronicle/journal each trip with a map, and great to know that it's by a local Colorado person. This is such a stupid thing to wonder - but, if the GPS is turned on, on my phone, do I still get signal on my Android even if my carrier (Verizon) has no bars/signal? I don't know much about GPS at all, other than the VZNavigator sucks (if that's even real GPS...). If Chris can do the speed thing on his phone for now, that would be very cool (and much cheaper)! Thanks again for the responses. I'll be looking into Garmin and Android apps, it looks like.

[Haku]

Yes, GPS still works without a cell signal. It will be harder to get a lock since the GPS system on the phone uses the Cell towers to help figure out where to start (and what the exact time is), but it will get a lock. If you haven't already, make sure A-GPS is turned on (this is the cell tower thing). "A" stands for assisted. It will be in the "Location and Security" menu of settings. Make sure "use mobile networks" and "use GPS satellites" is checked.

Some other cool free apps for GPS stuff on android phones is GPS Status and GPS Test. I like Status since it downloads positioning data which helps a ton with connecting to satellites when you aren't in cell range. It also gives you speed readings, altitude, compass data, and a bunch of other stuff. GPS Test is similar, but more basic. When my speedo wasn't working on my truck I used it a ton and it does a very good and accurate job with the speedometer. There are about a hundred different dedicated "speedometer" apps out there too, so pick one that you like the look of (they are all pretty much identical under the skin).

Honestly, in my opinion, if you have an iphone or android phone you don't really need to buy a separate GPS navigation device. Both of them have programs like Tom Tom which you can buy in the Market/Appstore that will do the exact same thing without having to spend as much. The only downside I can think of is if you use your phone in the car a lot, you won't have the Navigator available to look at (should still be able to hear it though). That goes away if you have a bluetooth headset or hands free stuff.

I agree that Google Nav (the free android provided navigator that Verizon rebrands and charges you extra for) sucks compared to Garmin/Magellan/Tom Tom/etc Navigation systems, but its not completely horrible. I've had it take me 5 miles off course a few times just to do a U-turn. As long as you kind of know where you are going and can think on your toes, its alright though. They haven't updated in a long time and it still pops up saying that its "in beta" when you get a new version of google maps.

If you want a lot more access to your phone, look into "rooting" it. Depending on what phone you have, its quite easy and allows for a lot more control of your phone and the ability to install more apps and such. The best part is that it allows you to get rid of a lot of the carriers "branding apps" that just bloat the system and take up space. Rooting is essentially a combination of bringing it closer to the bare bones OS that google distributes, on top of giving you "admin" status. It is reversible as well, so if you have problems with your phone and need to take it in to get fixed, they can't blame you for messing with it. It definitely takes a intermediate level of knowledge about computers, but I figured with a couple of boys in the house you should be covered. I would be happy to help too if they can't do it.

Here is a video of someone checking out Oruxmaps


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUcP-cMKIiU

He is just scrolling around, but if you are driving around and have GPS lock, it will track your location too.

Have fun and let us know how it works.

[oppositemind]

for trail use, i use delorme earthmate pn-40 with SPOT. pretty f***ing amazing IMHO. it does pretty much anything you'd want to do on the trail, is extremely rugged, and has 2-way satellite. This way, if you have an emergency and have no cell reception, you can press the SOS button and it notifies the police, etc. It also has an option to report your coords online every 10 minutes so that people can track your progress online. Optionally, i think you can post the coords to facebook via satellite, but i'm not into that.

Also, if you press the SOS button, it alerts your coordinates to any compatible GPS units within X miles of you that you are in a stress situation, so that they can have the opportunity to assist you.

with all that said, its pretty much worthless for on-road navigation

[Heather]

If you want a lot more access to your phone, look into "rooting" it. Depending on what phone you have, its quite easy and allows for a lot more control of your phone and the ability to install more apps and such. The best part is that it allows you to get rid of a lot of the carriers "branding apps" that just bloat the system and take up space. Rooting is essentially a combination of bringing it closer to the bare bones OS that google distributes, on top of giving you "admin" status.
Oooh, this puts into words what I was hoping to do. I was trying to "uninstall" a bunch of crap that came with the phone that I have no interest in - that is taking up space. As it is, I carry a car charger with me, and I turn off the location stuff because it sucks so much battery.

So glad I asked; you guys have such good info and I had no idea prior to asking that I can pretty much get away with using my phone...at least until we narrow down the particular GPS that we want to buy...and chances are we'll just get one for the two of us to start with, anyway, so the phone thing is extra great. The SOS thing sounds like it would be really good to have in the event of a real emergency (copious blood, bones, etc.).

[Patrolman]

I have a Tom-Tom. Pretty good on city streets and highways, so long as you aren't in windy-streeted neighborhoods and subdivisions. It gets lost on the rare occasion there. Honestly, in the mountains, it sucks. But I have a cheapo verison for a couple years ago. Thinks there are roads where there are golf courses and doesn't recognize trails at all. It does have a speedo which is handy.

For mountains, I have an old hand-held. Runs on AA batteries too, so charging isn't an issue. No fancy maps, but it does have a speedo. It is a simple point A-B via coordinates, not streets. Does the job well but again, doesn't have any trails. More or less a fancy compass with a way to leave "bread crumbs" for your way back.

[Haku]

Oooh, this puts into words what I was hoping to do. I was trying to "uninstall" a bunch of crap that came with the phone that I have no interest in - that is taking up space. As it is, I carry a car charger with me, and I turn off the location stuff because it sucks so much battery.

So glad I asked; you guys have such good info and I had no idea prior to asking that I can pretty much get away with using my phone...at least until we narrow down the particular GPS that we want to buy...and chances are we'll just get one for the two of us to start with, anyway, so the phone thing is extra great. The SOS thing sounds like it would be really good to have in the event of a real emergency (copious blood, bones, etc.).

What Android phone do you have?

You can uninstall some stuff, but the cellular carriers tend to restrict that on any of the branded stuff. They make serious money on people paying extra for stuff that they can get for free elsewhere (and legally). That VZnavigator is one of those things. Video and Music streaming, lookup services and most of the other Verizon/ATT/T-Mobile stuff is along similar lines.

Let me know what phone you have and I can advise you better on how to go about the Rooting process. Some of them have "one click" things and is pretty easy to do. Others take more steps but are still pretty easy. Rooting is the first step of being able to put custom tweaks to the OS on (called ROMS), but even if you don't want to do that its nice because it gives you another level of access to your phone. To me, that is just making it how it should be from factory. The feds agree, and have judged Rooting/Jailbreaking to be a legal (if you were worried about that). I believe it even went as far as to say that unless they can prove the Rooting process actually did damage, they can't deny warranty. Luckily the rooting process is reversible on most phones, so it doesn't really matter either way.

Honestly, this part might be better left to another thread, but I'll let others decide that. I'm happy to help either way though.

[Haku]

I have a Tom-Tom. Pretty good on city streets and highways, so long as you aren't in windy-streeted neighborhoods and subdivisions. It gets lost on the rare occasion there. Honestly, in the mountains, it sucks. But I have a cheapo verison for a couple years ago. Thinks there are roads where there are golf courses and doesn't recognize trails at all. It does have a speedo which is handy.

For mountains, I have an old hand-held. Runs on AA batteries too, so charging isn't an issue. No fancy maps, but it does have a speedo. It is a simple point A-B via coordinates, not streets. Does the job well but again, doesn't have any trails. More or less a fancy compass with a way to leave "bread crumbs" for your way back.

This popped a thought into my head.

So far, I haven't seen any offroad navigation aid that does something like the "turn by turn" stuff you see with streets and highways style navigator. You do have to use your brain and treat it as an aid that will tell you were you are, but not which direction to go. Some of them will give you a heading of which direction to travel, but its still up to you to decide which turn to take and such. At the end of the day, you have to make the decisions, not the machine. I've heard more then a few stories about people following a GPS unit into the boonies and getting lost.

I do agree that having the emergency beacon thing would be nice. This is the reason I bought a HAM radio and plan to get my tech license here soon (I have been saying that for over a year now, but I truly am going to). They have the ability to not only get a hold of operators that are quite far away, but can even make phone calls and do some other neat stuff that would be VERY nice to have in an emergency.

p.s. It bears repeating that we have an emergency contact list and anyone and everyone on the forum should sign up. I've both rescued and been rescued in crappy situations by people on this forum, and I've never met another group of people more willing to do so. I'll bump the thread so people get reminded again.

[Patrolman]

This popped a thought into my head.

So far, I haven't seen any offroad navigation aid that does something like the "turn by turn" stuff you see with streets and highways style navigator. You do have to use your brain and treat it as an aid that will tell you were you are, but not which direction to go. Some of them will give you a heading of which direction to travel, but its still up to you to decide which turn to take and such. At the end of the day, you have to make the decisions, not the machine. I've heard more then a few stories about people following a GPS unit into the boonies and getting lost.


Ditto. I wasn't sure what other GPS's had, but mine do just this. Go "this" direction even though the road doesn't. That said, I ALWAYS take a good topo map AND a compass. The map still gets used to make decisions at the fork in the road, and the compass is just for peace of mind. The GPS sure is handy though and makes things easier, but isn't a replacement for a good map.

[Chris]

Yes, always use common sense along with your GPS. I towed a guy's sedan through a trail by Yankee Hill that he ended up on following the "shortest route" to Central City via his GPS. :lmao:

[Heather]

What Android phone do you have?

HTC Incredible (3G).

With the GPS, didn't envision that they would do turn-by-turn on the trails of the actual paths (!) - more like "you are here" coordinates, like that can be obtained from traildamage.com(?) if I'm remembering correctly seeing it there...last Fall Chris plugged the GPS coordinates into Googlemaps and it at least showed us mostly how to get to the trail area from our house, so we printed it out and took it with us to meet friends. I really like the idea of mapping where we've been - that seems like an awesome feature, especially to the mom/journaler in me. This is all amazing info!

[Haku]

Cool, I'll look into the rooting procedure for you.

Its more then just coordinates with the Oruxmaps and Backcountry Navigator style programs. If you look on the Trail Damage trail pages, there is a section towards the bottom right that has tracks that you can download. If you put those on your phone, you can then plug them into Orux or BCN and you can follow where the trail is supposed to go. With decent Topo Maps or Satellite Maps, its pretty easy to figure out how to get yourself where you need to be. At the end of the day though, its still just a fancy map that just happens to know exactly where you are on it. I think that the Funtrex books have .gpx files available too, but I'm not certain. One other place that I KNOW has .gpx files is www.everytrail.com (http://www.everytrail.com)(same idea as TrailDamage). I believe it has the ability to download directly into Oruxmaps too, since it prompts you for it when you ask it to load a track.

You can do all kinds of stuff with your GPS as far as blogging and such too. I know a lot of guys who link their photo album to GPS coordinates when they post. I know that you can set the camera on a Smartphone to record the GPS data, and there are ways to do it with other camera's too by logging your data. There is also Geo Caching, which involves someone finding a place to stash a capsule or pod, and posting the coordinates and letting other people find them. Usually its just something fun to do with the activity and destination being the reward, but sometimes companies will do a promotion where they'll hide something and treat it more like a scavenger hunt with a big prize for the first people to find it.

[Fordguy77]

The funtreks books do have gpx files to download.
http://www.funtreks.com/funtreks-articles/gps-downloads
If you end up using a Garmin you have to convert them into a different file to get them to work with map-source. However the file extension escapes me at the moment.
I originally had this unit for hunting and camping. It worked reasonably well, but i had to buy a special adapter to get it to work with my computer
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145&pID=30120

I now have this unit, and i use it for camping, hiking, and wheeling. It can do more than i need, but i got it off ebay at one hell of a discount.
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145&pID=26876

[JeffX]

Go with DeLorme. I've used the Garmin products for years and the mapping software PALES in comparison with DeLorme. Most of the time on the Garmin, the trail disappears when you zoom out far enough to see where you are!

Also, the DeLorme includes basic topo software -w- 3D imagiing.

http://www.amazon.com/DeLorme-Earthmate-PN-40-Waterproof-Hiking/dp/B001FVLTNA

One of the most important things to remember is that GPS kills. (excuse the rant) Wrapping your mind around basic land navigation skills is far more important than buying a GPS. That said this stuff is most important:

http://www.amazon.com/BRUNTON-LENSATIC-MILITARY-STYLE-METAL/dp/B0052Q2MWG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1306932594&sr=1-7

http://www.amazon.com/Colorado-Gazetteer-DeLorme-Mapping-Company/dp/0899332889/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306932675&sr=1-1-catcorr


I first started using GPS in the Army. At that time there was no mapping capability; it simply told your coordinates. Then we took a protractor to 'find' ourselves on the map.

Good luck!

[Brody]

One of the most important things to remember is that GPS kills. (excuse the rant) Wrapping your mind around basic land navigation skills is far more important than buying a GPS.

Yup, it does. And I'll add a little to Jeff's stuff here, especially since I don't think it is a rant, think it is important and feel the same way.

Having used GPS units from the time they first became available to the general public (my rock climbing guide books were the first to use them for rock locations/ summits, etc), and still use them today, I am not really all that fond of them, mainly because I think that people get the impression that they won't get lost with a GPS. Wrong....and wrong again. I have seen and experienced way too many GPS "errors" over the years and personally put my faith in a compass and basic map reading skills. I always bring a map and compass and if I simply don't like the BS the GPS is trying to hand me, double check on the map with simple triangulation.

I have mentioned before that basic wilderness survival skills, like map reading, using a compass, using stars, the sun a watch, a stick in the sand are far more important in a survival sense than using a battery powered GPS unit. Sure, they are nice to have, especially in a vehicle. Vehicle dies, batteries run down in the GPS, and you have taken a "wrong turn" somewhere far from help. Oooops...no map. Ooops...no compass. Where de f*** are we? What do we do? Yeah.....

I have also seen 6 guys standing in a circle, all holding GPS units, and everyone getting different readings as far as location, altitude, etc. I have also seen friends "miss" the campsite/parking spot coming back from rock climbing because their GPS unit said it was " right there" and it happened to be 400 meters away from the location that their GPS was trying to get them back to. 400 meters doesn't sound like a long way? It can kill you in the wrong circumstances. That last case was on a climbing/camping trip some friends of mine and I did. We were hiking back to camp in the dusk and it was a wooded area with a lot of look alike hills, valleys and terrain. No one believed me when I said "We need to go down this valley" and relied on their GPS which said "Go down this one here" and that was using the "backtrack" feature. I found the camp, then spent the next 40 minutes firing rounds off so that everyone could eventually get back to where they were supposed to be. They had spent almost an hour following the "backtrack" feature and ended up a mile from the actual campsite, now in the dark. I also had shined a flashlight straight up so that they could locate the camp in addition to the shots.

So as an additional "tool", they are worthwhile. As a sole means of locating you and or your vehicle, I wouldn't bet my ass on them...

[JeffX]

My links got lost on page 1:


Go with DeLorme. I've used the Garmin products for years and the mapping software PALES in comparison with DeLorme. Most of the time on the Garmin, the trail disappears when you zoom out far enough to see where you are!

Also, the DeLorme includes basic topo software -w- 3D imagiing.

http://www.amazon.com/DeLorme-Earthmate-PN-40-Waterproof-Hiking/dp/B001FVLTNA

One of the most important things to remember is that GPS kills. (excuse the rant) Wrapping your mind around basic land navigation skills is far more important than buying a GPS. That said this stuff is most important:

http://www.amazon.com/BRUNTON-LENSATIC-MILITARY-STYLE-METAL/dp/B0052Q2MWG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1306932594&sr=1-7

http://www.amazon.com/Colorado-Gazetteer-DeLorme-Mapping-Company/dp/0899332889/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306932675&sr=1-1-catcorr


I first started using GPS in the Army. At that time there was no mapping capability; it simply told your coordinates. Then we took a protractor to 'find' ourselves on the map.

Good luck!

[EldoradoFJ60]

I just follow the oil drips back if I get lost.

My GPS is an old Garmin ETrex Vista from 2003 or so. It was pretty hot back then. I use it to store waypoints and it has come in handy on several hiking trips. I don't like to rely on technology much for my navigation so I usually leave it at home.

[Jackie]

We have the Garmin GPSmap60CSx. Britton Loves it for hiking. But we always carry a compass and topo maps as well. For me, (when I'm driving) it doesn't do me any good since I'm blind as a bat. But on trail runs with this group, I usually follow instead of lead...so... I don't need one!
The thing is spot-accurate though. I don't think they make this model any more, but if you like to hike as well as off-road, I would reccommend it. The Garmin maps that you can purchase are really good.:thumb:

[Ric]

Im using a Garmin 60 XX not sure what, but it does work, here a pic of where I have it installed
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd139/Rix4rnr/2004%204Runner-new/ARB/Tank%20and%20Switch/DSC_1490.jpg
Have you thought about changing out the head unit/stereo?
Im looking into getting a new head unit, Kenwood DNX model, as you can see Ive got to much stuff in the cab, this head unit will allow, stereo, Sirius radio,
Navigation AND you can download TOPO maps into it, with GPS,, so this will get rid of my lil srius unit, the tomtom and the gps unit, it will all be in the head unit :2thumbup:

[Cr33p3r]

I am using the Magellan iFinder Expidition C it has a lot of features and does a pretty good job just expensive and you have to buy the program for trails seperately for an extra $100. It does do a speedometer, altitude meter, weather watches and warnings, mp3, compass, and a lot more than I ever learned to use.

[BlackRubi]

I agree with Jeff and Brody. Learn land nav first. I knew the basics growing up, but the Army fine tuned my abilities. GPS is great for getting to an address that you don't know, but don't rely on it alone when you are out in the woods

[Chris]

I like my old Garmin but now have the fancy in dash Toyota system which is great on the streets. Barb and I are of the "go left, go right" to see where we end up in the mountains, getting lost is fun. :D

[Heather]

Thank you all, for the great info. I definitely think dusting off/upgrading (retraining?) the land nav brain cells is in order. I'll be taking this thread with me when we go shopping...!

[Max]

Bring and gun and a flashlight. Got it.