Closing Trails -Pickle Gulch- Kinston Peak- Yankee

[Java]

saw this on Colorado Jeep people:

http://www.meetup.com/Colorado-JeepPeople/messages/boards/thread/13773751/

I'd hate to see that happen, but looks like the meeting is tommorow so email is probably the only option. Anyone heard of this?

[glacierpaul]

Holy shizzen!! Damn, I think I have to make that meeting, hell more than half the reason I moved up here was the surrounding trails, hell more than half of the folks up here are in the same boat. Wish I had known before the night of the meeting. "Well received"....my a$$!!

[Hypoid]

It is hard to believe that someting like this has stayed under the radar.

I remember reading about contracts for reclaiming parts of Yankee Hill, makes me wonder if closing FS roads is normal for county business???

[Brad]

Cannot attend but did send a email stating my opposition. :thumb:

[SCRubicon]

If I don't attend this meeting I will definitely be sending a long winded (but clean) email. I could see this coming for years as the Kingston Peak trail has been gradually fenced off. Even though I don't wheel as much as I did in the past this has me pi$$ed off. My ears are starting to ring... :mad:

[Haku]

Anyone else going that wants to Car Pool? I'd like to go, but I'm shy and prefer to go with people I know. I've been relatively hands off about this stuff, but want to change it.

Josh

[Mesomelas]

The thread on colorado 4x4 says that this will not close already established, legal trails.

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=185542

[Brad]

Reply I got from my email:

Dear Mr. Peterson:



Thank you for your input on the proposed expansion of the James Peak Wilderness Protection Area and the creation of the Elk Park Special Protection Area. Your comments will be forwarded to Congressman Jared Polis and US Senators Udall and Bennet, the proponents of the expansion; a copy of all public comment received on this topic will be maintained here in the Gilpin County Commissioners’ Office.



Sharon Cate

Deputy Clerk to the Board

Gilpin County Commissioners

303.582.5214 phone, 303.582.5440 fax

PO Box 366, or 203 Eureka Street

Central City, CO 80427

scate@co.gilpin.co.us

[Mr6dwg]

Nimby's, I tell you! Nimby's - - - - - It must be nice to have that kind of power to legislate your desires like that.

Not in my back yard.

[Rob]

The thread on colorado 4x4 says that this will not close already established, legal trails.

I just read through the proposal to expand the James Creek Wilderness and create a special protection area. I didn't see anything about closing trails that haven't already been closed. In fact, it noted that not currently open trails would be closed. Not that it couldn't happen in the future.

[glacierpaul]

I was unable to make the meeting, bounced a t-stake driver off the top of my head, 3" gash is lovely, and had some concrete poured at my lot and needed to protect it from vandals(neighborhood kids who were watching from a distance). They have long talked of closing the "offshoots" from the established trails. Kingston/Yankee Hill is actually the stagecoach route that went from Georgetown over to Central City and predates the USFS, so they cannot close it off period. My biggest fear was the government over stepping it's bounds, why would I ever think that for? I was ready to go in to the meeting and let them have it for potentially taking away our only evacuation route if Fall River basin were on fire. I will still look into the proposal, and thanks to all who did their part. I have "busted" countless folks "off" trail and told them they will be the doom of us all. Some, if not all, of the fencing(barb wire) is private property boundaries, please respect this. I was mad when the one section of fence went up, but met the owner and he told me of some bad apples in the 4x4 community( Jeepers and dirtbike/ATV'ers), "hence the fence" (his actual quote). Glad to know that 20 years later they are still talking about closing trails that are essentially already closed, the USFS is a love/hate relationship for me........
Thanks for making the yellow "Action Required" notice!!

[Brad]

Geez Paul, hope your ok.

I would probably do the same with the fence if I owned the property. My land my rules.
From the sound of it I thought they were closing down the whole area.

[ROKTAXI]

I think I posted (ranted?)a few months back about USFS closures in the La Sal's here. Also other closures on BLM land. Think I also said something like "... you're next CO".

Also, we just found out that some of the FS offices are giving "ROAD CLOSED" signs to greenies and letting them put signs were they want as well as putting debris at the trail head. Even though these are somewhat isolated ( 20+) cases, it has been documented that it IS occurring, but dealing with it in a responsible manor is another story. Hope CO doesn't have to put up with this nonsense.

BLM is also doing the same thing.... giving carsonite (brown lolly pop) signs as well as metal stakes with the BLM logo ('restoration in progress') to "helpers" and letting them put signs where they are told, but without supervision. I've seen MANY signs where there's no official closure designation. Gonna take a long time to sort this stuff out. Best we can do is when you see signs that don't look like they should be there, document it (GPS) and see if it is in fact a legal closure.

[SCRubicon]

Reply I got from my email:

Dear Mr. Peterson:



Thank you for your input on the proposed expansion of the James Peak Wilderness Protection Area and the creation of the Elk Park Special Protection Area. Your comments will be forwarded to Congressman Jared Polis and US Senators Udall and Bennet, the proponents of the expansion; a copy of all public comment received on this topic will be maintained here in the Gilpin County Commissioners’ Office.



Sharon Cate

Deputy Clerk to the Board

Gilpin County Commissioners

303.582.5214 phone, 303.582.5440 fax

PO Box 366, or 203 Eureka Street

Central City, CO 80427

scate@co.gilpin.co.us

Yep, I got the same canned letter with my name on it. I did not make it up to the meeting.

[SCRubicon]

Also, we just found out that some of the FS offices are giving "ROAD CLOSED" signs to greenies and letting them put signs were they want as well as putting debris at the trail head.

Wow, that B.S. is allowed to happen out there??? That just heinous!!!


BLM is also doing the same thing.... giving carsonite (brown lolly pop) signs as well as metal stakes with the BLM logo ('restoration in progress') to "helpers" and letting them put signs where they are told, but without supervision. I've seen MANY signs where there's no official closure designation.

Too bad those carsonites aren't numbered and put in a database as to where they legally belong. They do it with the street signs here in Lakewood. Should not be too hard to keep track of a couple thousand less pieces of brown fiberglass...

[Rob]

Also, we just found out that some of the FS offices are giving "ROAD CLOSED" signs to greenies and letting them put signs were they want as well as putting debris at the trail head. Even though these are somewhat isolated ( 20+) cases, it has been documented that it IS occurring, but dealing with it in a responsible manor is another story. Hope CO doesn't have to put up with this nonsense.

That's crazy. Do the FS districts out there have MVUMs (motor vehicle use maps) yet? They show all open trails on FS lands.

[Java]

I think I posted (ranted?)a few months back about USFS closures in the La Sal's here. Also other closures on BLM land. Think I also said something like "... you're next CO".

Also, we just found out that some of the FS offices are giving "ROAD CLOSED" signs to greenies and letting them put signs were they want as well as putting debris at the trail head. Even though these are somewhat isolated ( 20+) cases, it has been documented that it IS occurring, but dealing with it in a responsible manor is another story. Hope CO doesn't have to put up with this nonsense.

BLM is also doing the same thing.... giving carsonite (brown lolly pop) signs as well as metal stakes with the BLM logo ('restoration in progress') to "helpers" and letting them put signs where they are told, but without supervision. I've seen MANY signs where there's no official closure designation. Gonna take a long time to sort this stuff out. Best we can do is when you see signs that don't look like they should be there, document it (GPS) and see if it is in fact a legal closure.

Could the FS / BLM just be trying to get them out of thier hair / office / make them shut up for a minute? Kind of like "here, you go do it if you want it done so bad?" I can't imagine Moab losing too many trails without losing a ton of $$$, which really drives all of it, but they still have to deal with the hippies?

[MelloYello]

WTF!! Did anyone go to the meeting? Hippies suck, they totally screwed up my childhood, now they are screwing up my trails.
I received the same form letter response to my email.

[ROKTAXI]

Could the FS / BLM just be trying to get them out of thier hair / office / make them shut up for a minute? Kind of like "here, you go do it if you want it done so bad?" I can't imagine Moab losing too many trails without losing a ton of $$$, which really drives all of it, but they still have to deal with the hippies?

Some of the closures are not full trails but segments or spurs of a trail. Usually they go to vistas or other less know locations. But that's the beauty of it. Most of the general public don't use trails that are being closed so it won't impact Moab's $$$ at all... at least for now. But now that people are doing more exploring, it may eventually effect it to some capacity. Closing trails for a valid reason is one thing. But to close them because they can is another.

I think Chris will remember that short trail I took him on that had great scenery and large petrified logs. Closed.... for NO REASON.
Don't get me started......... :mad:

[Rob]

Hippies suck, they totally screwed up my childhood

Now that's a story I need to hear.

[mattzj98]

Now that's a story I need to hear.

X2! lets hear it!

[Brody]

Also, we just found out that some of the FS offices are giving "ROAD CLOSED" signs to greenies and letting them put signs were they want as well as putting debris at the trail head.

Maybe it is soon going to be time to take this stuff personally and start sticking some "greenie" heads on stakes.

[Heather]

Hippies suck, they totally screwed up my childhood

x3 - do tell, please!

[ROKTAXI]

Maybe it is soon going to be time to take this stuff personally and start sticking some "greenie" heads on stakes.

Great idea Pete! But you know, they've been doing this kinda stuff (obstructions and such) for as long as I've been here in Moab. They've just upped the ante by using "official" signage. :boxing:

[glacierpaul]

Most of the anti moto folks I have seen are not hippies. Hell, I have been called a hippie, you know long hair, full beard. But true "hippies" were guy's laying around in opium dens, wasted out of their minds, not the "let's stop these pesky 4wheel motorists" folks. The uber-elite is who is trying to stop us. To them I say, this is the next man theory, you say us(wheelers) cause damage to trails, I say LNT principles or what I call true "conservation" means NO USE AT ALL. The words of the day(or millineum) is "mitigate and manage", not "Trail closure". All user groups have bad apples and all user groups cause erotion, just like mother nature. All you have to do is come up to St. Mary's Glacier and see all the off shoot hiking trails that have been made, and the back of my parking lot. I have signs every 8' saying go to and stay on the trail, what do folks do?, go right past my sign up the eroding hillside I ask to stay off of. This damage is only caused by feet. Then there is all the dog poop and broken glass and cig butts, and on and on....good thing I go patroling regularly.
BTW, Colodisco, twas but a flesh wound....

[glacierpaul]

Turns out the gal who maintains my porta-potties lives over by Rollinsville, seems there is a very concerted effort to close the entire area down. Udall and Polis will be supporting this. I told her I was told they were only talking about closing non-marked trails, she said that they want to close them all. She is going to get me in touch with other folks involved. Gilpin County has some stuff on their web site, so does COHVCO. I will post more when I get more info, if they think they are going to take away my sub-divisions only fire escape routes, they better think again! These routes pre-date the USFS, so they must be planning a Bill to introduce to get around the law now.

[Brad]

Keep us appraised Paul. If you need my help in anyway please let me know. :thumb:

[EldoradoFJ60]

Have they given any concrete reasons for closing the trails? Doesn't seem like hikers are using them.

I think they should rename Boulder Open Space to "Closed Space".

Yeah it's free from development, but you can't go there. Stay on your little designated hiking path or face being fined. I apologize but my exploratory human nature cannot be confined by signs and threats of fines.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Q7cP3ij5g

[Java]

so any idea exactly which trails they are hoping to close? It'd be nice to have a list, make sure to run them before it happens.

[Colin]

so any idea exactly which trails they are hoping to close? It'd be nice to have a list, make sure to run them before it happens.
X2 good idea!

[Brody]

I apologize but my exploratory human nature cannot be confined by signs and threats of fines.

X2.

[SCRubicon]

Any new word on what is happening up there?

[BLUE THUNDER]

Don't know about the other two, but I was up on yankee hill yesterday 3/31 it was open. Still some snow on the side trails.