Driveline Opinions

[Fordguy77]

I am in the process of securing a EFI 5.0L Ford for a steal, and plan on throwing it into the my 4runner. My questions are;

Leave it EFI or jump back to a carb for simplicity? (The 4runner is Carbed and the f150/broncos at the same time were still available with a carb)

Use an adapter to hook to my transmission and keep the yota drive train?

Use a ZF or T5(both are 5 speeds, ZFs more of a truck transmission than the T5) And find an adapter to get it hooked into the toyota Tcase?

Or 100% Ditch the yoda drive-train and replace it with a 9" and a Dana 44hp out of a 79 bronco and run a ford drive-train from engine back?

I plan on putting a 2"(maybe a 3, trying to avoid it) body lift on, and attempting to tuck everything as close to or above the frame as i can. 2 Really bad pics. 1 Is a stock hanging drivetrain, the other has been lited 2". I also believe keeping at least the yota case it leaves me more doubling options and such.

The build plans for this rig are to have it setting on 35-37s with as low of a COG as possible(read cutting). Regardless of drive-train choice i will have to make up grades and gear changes to both sets of axles for them to handle the tire size i want to run. People do run built 350s in front of the yota drive-train with nominal breakage from what i have read so far.

[scout man]

whatever will get the damn thing on the trail the fastest!! While your at it... see if one of those rigs can make it far enough down the road to find a pharmacy and get you some ridelin for this fab ADD stuff you have going on!

:steer:

[Fordguy77]

whatever will get the damn thing on the trail the fastest!! While your at it... see if one of those rigs can make it far enough down the road to find a pharmacy and get you some ridelin for this fab ADD stuff you have going on!

:steer:
:eek:
:clap:
:lmao: I really do think i need some medication! I cant seem to leave well enough alone! But this is totally besides the point

[Bunyon & Babe]

Go Ford all the way back.The "new" engine will EAT the stock Yota parts unless you have a VERY GENTLE foot !

[Fordguy77]

Go Ford all the way back.The "new" engine will EAT the stock Yota parts unless you have a VERY GENTLE foot !
I guess i should have included the plans in the original posting. I plan on running 35 to 37" tires, with 4.56 to 4.88 gearing with a "doubler" "dual t case" or "crawl box". I know the gearing sounds shallow but im not really willing to run much steeper yet. So all the axle shafts and such are going to be replaced with Chromoly, and upgrade components to support the dramatic increase in tire size. So as far as parts breaking its not a huge deal to me as most the breakables are being replaced. People do run the Yota drive train behind built 350 and seem to have nominal breakage.

[Bunyon & Babe]

You should be fine then. 4.88s are the best " blend " of Getting low gears and retaining streangth in the gear components. The cut on 5.29s results in a slightly thinner ring ,thus slightly weaker even though most would think lower means stronger . Stick with your 4.88s

[Warrlord]

If you go with the 5.0, run it with EFI. It'll never skip a beat when bouncing around on the trails (if you ever get to the trails that is http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Warrlord/Misc/derisive.gif :) ) like a carb will. But, if you want the simplest way..........repair the Toyota stuff...........no time consuming fabing & modifications to slow down your down time even more :)

[scout man]

doesnt sound too shallow to me btw. Granted, I dont know yotas much, but I am running 35s with 4.56 and I am really glad I didnt go any steeper. I would have lost any chance of highway speeds.

[Fordguy77]

doesnt sound too shallow to me btw. Granted, I dont know yotas much, but I am running 35s with 4.56 and I am really glad I didnt go any steeper. I would have lost any chance of highway speeds.

I might own 2 but i only know my fords. And i know running 3.73s and 33s on 2 of them and have had no complaints about it. But We have power Steve them lil yota engines don't. So hopefully the 5.0L will be a nice combo with them. Im almost hesitant to go that tall, but according to most "its the way go".

[scout man]

yea, i would think with that power you would be getting too steep if you went higher. I think there is so much that goes into it its hard to say though. Everyone told me I should have gone 4.88, but I am really glad I didnt. Granted, I have tons of torque, but I redline at 4000 rpm, which may make up for a lot of the difference. If I was cruising the highway at 6500, 4.88s probably would have been ok.

[Brody]

My two cents:

Just about all of your Toyota information can be answered here in the huge Toyota FAQ on Pirate 4x4:
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775780

which is also posted in the Toyota Make and Model link on the FR site:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?8745-TOYOYA-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS

Leave the stock Yota drivetrain (I have had a **** load of Yotas, including one with an EFI 302 and the current with a with a slightly trick SC'd 3.4). With the exception of the drive shafts, the basic Yota drivetrain will deal with 300hp.

You will have to have the stock Yota drive shafts rebuilt no matter what you do, but since you are doing a spring swap in the rear, adding dual cases, etc., you are going to have to do this anyway. The rear drive shaft was the only issue in the drive train I experienced with the 302 swap I did. Bill at Englewood Drive Shaft took care of that.

Gusset the front axle.
Install Longfields
4.88s are going to be OK up to 35s and you will be in the sweet spot. 5.29s will be the sweet spot with 37s. Either will work. I have been running 5.29s for 6 years with 36-38" tires no problem. Before that, I ran 4.88s with 35-36" tires. Most of the Yotas I have had, I have run up to 35" tires and I stayed with 4.88s. Everything was just happy. You will have the power with the 5.0 to compensate for the difference between the 4.88s and 5.29s, too, if you decide to run 37s.

Upgrade the rear to a V6 if you can. The 4 banger rear is marginal for the 5.0, but will work. If you use the 4 banger rear, upgrade the shafts. By the time you spend the money on upgrading the shafts, you could have stuck in a V6 or newer Taco rear axle.
Gusset the axle in two dimensions.

Leave the 5.0 EFI'd. You will hate yourself if you don't. The only real issue you are going to run into here with the 5.0 swap is going to be overheating. The stock Yota radiator simply won't cool a V8. You may be able to junk yard a V8 radiator that will work fine, but I bypassed this and stuck in a fat little Griffin after market that did just fine. I also added a junk yard fan from something and wired it to a simple switch. Cost me under $20. You will have to carve/modify the front clip a little for the radiator as you will have to move it forward.

You may have to add another leaf to the flipped rear spring pack...maybe not. This is a 'see what happens' thing after you get the engine mounted. Using the rears on the front may work fine. I had to add a leaf from a ******* pack to get the ride height right with the 302. All that really amounts to is that before you stick the rears under the front, replace the center pin, lube it with anti seize, and leave it long. The rest you can do on the rig if you need to add another leaf.

Huge amount of info in the TECH section about calculating the right gear ratio and tires. Other sources include Randy's Ring and Pinion and 4Wheel Parts. Anyone who has done any research at all into gear ratios for Yotas knows that the suggestions I made are not based on just my knowledge, but are pretty much the accepted ones from the whole Yota community. There is information posted all over the internet on all of the forums with pretty much the same answers. This isn't anything 'new'.

Not selling Yotas here, but the more Yota crap you can use, the less non Yota crap to Yota crap adapters you are going to have to mess with....all the way down to the basic nuts and bolts. Pretty much the same thing you run into with any transplant.

Calculating gear ratios/tire Sizes:

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/reading/mph-rpm.htm

Yota axle/diff and gear:

http://www.brian894x4.com/Gearratiosanddiffs.html

From FR Tech Links post#1:

http://www.4lo.com/

Huge mess of information here:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?4385-Gear-tire-crawl-ratio-calculators

While you have the axles out, drill another couple of 9/16" holes in the axle spring perch, splitting the difference between off the existing center hole. Do this on both the front and rear. This will give you a lot of fine tuning for your axle location. You can avoid the drilling and also get these Toyota axle relocation plates from SKY:

http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/new/detaproduct.php?id=80

As a word of caution, watch how your tie rod/drag link lines up before you button everything down. It is possible to easily stack them on top of one another when you are moving the front axle forward...

Another thing that you are going to have to deal with is the PS on the Yota. The stock PS pumps on Yotas are really inadequate. Rather than trying to modify the piss poor Yota one (and there is a bunch of info on that in the Yota Make and Model Tech), plan on plumbing in the Ford one using Earl's fittings.

The Yota box is pretty good, but you are probably going to want to go with a 90's PS box especially if you do a recommended hi steer set up. I have an extra one from my 94 I can sell you for a decent price if that is what you want to do. If you replace the existing box with the newer one, keep in mind that the frame brace/relocation plates almost all the manufactures sell needs to be tweaked a bit. Rather than install it dead nuts according to most of the directions, tweak the box so that it is sitting a little more upright, about 10-15 degrees. What this will do is to allow you to move the axle froward a bit more without jamming up the tie rod/drag link. Doesn't take much. Watch your Pitman arm clearance when you do this, too. I also have a couple of dropped after market arms at my house. I found this out after the fact and it is now on my list of "I'll change this down the road sometime when I feel like a real PITA project". I wish I had caught it sooner and that has been the last one I have ever done 'per instructions'...

As always, you can use my heap as a reference whether I am home or not...

[Fordguy77]

Thank you for everyone's input. :) I greatly appreciate it and have taken much of it into consideration. However my web wheeling is taking on a monster of its own, and making me have too many thoughts.

And well in shot, i got my FADD again :erm: last night after this. And i have found a few things out.

First, I have several emails out and around for a front FJZ80 axle complete hub to hub, and so far the few responses i have had prices far lower than i normally have found for them. This would give me almost 9" more inches of width. Be full floating, and a few options for the locker up front. And a good deal of strength. As well as leave some options for steering and upgrades. :smokin:

Second, I have a fair amount of drive-train components for older fords. A few years back i had a T18 and 218F rebuilt for a 84 Ford i had. Well while the transmissions and such were at the shop, i ended up selling the truck. So its been Covered/Sitting full of oil for the last 4 years or so. And i still have the bell-housing and everything to fit it on to a 302. The adapter for engine to a yota transmission more than the adapter for a T-18 to a Toyota transfer-case. :D

Third, for the rear axle, i might put in a big bearing 31 spline ford 9". Not only do i have one sitting at my house, its a pretty strong axle and i'll have to measure but i believe its either 3 narrow or 2 inches wider. The only thing that is going to kill me on this i have to get custom shafts with a 6 on 5.5 or whatever pattern it may be to match...:erm:

It would be nice for me to use some of the junk i have laying around because its cheap, and it would help me reduce my storage space and make room for more junk :thumb:

Now to go get all of this by the :princess::help:

[Clint Z]

Good luck with that one! Either running what you have or going all one brand will allow less adapters just like Pete said. That is where the cost goes thru the roof.

You could go big 9" and ford D44 front and just keep the 5 lug.

THere was a guy that was running a 302/435/205 set up with HP D44 and D60 rear with 5.13 gears and it looked VERY capapable. Just search for Full width 4runner on google.

LMK if there is anything you need from me.

Clint

[Fordguy77]

Good luck with that one! Either running what you have or going all one brand will allow less adapters just like Pete said. That is where the cost goes thru the roof.

You could go big 9" and ford D44 front and just keep the 5 lug.

THere was a guy that was running a 302/435/205 set up with HP D44 and D60 rear with 5.13 gears and it looked VERY capapable. Just search for Full width 4runner on google.

LMK if there is anything you need from me.

Clint
I was thinking about running axles out of a 79 bronco underneath it, and sticking with the ford drive-train parts i already have. However this rote greatly increases the cost into getting set up with doubles and limits the options a little bit more. I know of a few people who've got 31 spline ford axle shafts custom made with the Chevy 6 bolt pattern and had good luck for them.
I think using the T18 and one adapter to the toyota tcase should work fine. We'll see where it goes. Im still on the drawing bored, and as we've all seen my add takes over pretty fast.

[Cr33p3r]

Chris, I say the same thing stick to one brand for the build whether it is the Ford stuff or the Yota, definitely more cost effective. If going tothe Ford keep the EFI you hate it if go to a carb! The 9" is fully capable of wheeling larger tires with minimal upgrades. If going to 35s with that axle 4:88s put you right in the middle of power/torque band and should be fine w/ the 5.0 if going up to 5:13s w/ the 5.0 you will start to see the same effects Steve has at highway speeds (lowering your redline).

Since you are going to run leafs all the way around swapping the axles will be the easy part, the hard stuff will be stuffing the 5.0 in there w/ the tranny, just :2c:

[Hypoid]

With a V-8 and deep gears, you may not want a doubler.

[Brody]

I have a doubler with 5.29s and a supercharged V6 that is pushing a bit of HP. I use mine all the time. It saves a lot of wear and tear on the driveline and lets you basically idle over most obstacles...The horsepower is nice getting to and from the trails, the doubler is nice on the trails. Kinda the best of both worlds...

I would have done the V8 swap into the Yota as I had already done one in the past, but I got a better deal on a low mileage 'bolt in' 3.4 that I had to do every little with. That said, I loved the V8 I had in the 1980 Yota, but it really was bit much. I also never upgraded any of the driveline components except the drive shafts and ran the stock weaker (in those years, Yota was simply flipping the rear gears for the front, causing all the wear and stress to be on the weak side of the gears) 1980 front axle and weaker 4 banger rear axle. Longfield wasn't even in business and there were no groovy chromo axle upgrades. I just regeared the axles to 4.88, stuck a Detroit in the back, beefed the front spring pack, did more fab that I wanted to for the motor and transmission mounts, and wheeled the **** out of it. If there had been a doubler at the time, I would've done that, too, but I don't even think Marlin was a company back then either...

[Bunyon & Babe]

excellent info from Brody.

[Brody]

Thank you.

[mattzj98]

Pete's yota is beast as long as truinion bearings stay good! :D

[Brody]

It isn't like this thing is brand new and off the factory floor. It has been wheeled pretty hard for 6-7 years and I have put something like 70-80k on it since the SAS. I was probably a little behind on my front end maintenance or the bearing was getting old. Probably the latter as I do the front end R&R crap on a pretty regular basis...

Most of the recent stuff I have broken have been hubs, which this sounded like and why I simply took it out of 4WD and drove the rest of the trail. Wasn't until I got down onto regular roads that the wheel decided to lean, letting me know that it wasn't just a hub....