I have a Problem with my Suspension.

[Squshiee1]

I was wondering if anyone knew about a problem i have bee having for a while now, it has gotten progressively worse over time.

If i am going down the highway... say the c470 turnoff on i-70, when i go around that turn the rear end of the car... vibrates, or shakes and shimmies. i have replaced the shocks and no success with fixing that.

Even if i am going slow and turning sharp, say 15mph it does the same thing. But when i really noticed it was getting bad, was when i was playing in the snow, the rear starts to hop up and down fairly fast. and if i keep on the gas it doesn't stop.

The only thing i have done myself was replace the shocks, it has done the same thing with 2 different sets of wheels, and my old and new shocks, any ideas?

[Brody]

Sounds, as a guess, that your spring bushings are on their last legs and need replacement. Of course, that is the simple crap.

It could also be:
-Bad U joints in the drive shaft: Check these by grabbing the drive shaft and seeing if you get any movement. Secondly, movement or not, hose them down with WD40. If you get a mess of rusty junk out of them, they are also probably do for replacement.
-Motor/T Case/Tranny Mounts: Stick a jack under the engine oil pan and watch the play in the motor mounts. If they are shot, it will not be visible until the engine is raised as the weight of the engine will close the bad spot, usually where the rubber bushing is vulcanized to the metal. Do the same for the tranny and T case. You may just be able to stick a crow bar or pry bar under the T case and see if you can raise it. A little movement is OK, much more than a little isn't. This can also be due to the bushing wearing out or merely loose mounting bolts.

Oh yeah....before you go through all of this 'testing for damaged bushing BS', tighten everything you can reach under the rig, including motor mounts, T case/tranny mounts, spring bolts, shackle bolts and all the other happy stuff. You may just find the culprit doing this little bit of simple maintenance...I have always been surprised at what is 'loose' doing this to either customer's rigs or my own junk, and make it a standard part of my periodic maintenance.

[Ardent]

loose/worn wheel bearings.

[Java]

I broke a leaf in one of my rear packs on my old YJ at the start of Coney Flats and had a very similar deal, I was getting axle wrap from the weaker pack. Just a guess, you may want to eyeball them for a broken leaf. Jacking the wheels off the ground usually shows it pretty quickly.

[Mporter]

loose/worn wheel bearings.

x2. I thought this was what happened to mine back in the summer, but it was on the front axle and turned out to be the tie rods out of adjustment and the wheels weren't rotated in a while.

Try rotating/balancing your tires, that might help.

[Squshiee1]

my tires only have 5,000 miles on them, i might rotate them, but.... i think my bushings need to be replaced. and i know i need almost all of the bushings and dust covers on the front replaced, so i guess i will do the shackle bushings or spring bushings what ever you call it. and i will most defiantly check the axle joints. the wheel bearings are brand new, about 1000 miles on those, i will also check the motor and drive line mounts.

I do have one request, does anyone have really long allen wrenches i could borrow, i NEED to tighten up my oil pan, i have seen these allen wrenches on the end of sockets, maybe one of those?

[Brody]

If I had long allen head stuff, you could for sure borrow it, but I don't. most of my allen head junk is standard length. Might be worth a trip to Harbor Freight to get a set and they are about the cheapest place to get them...and they have a good selection.

Chris (Fordboy) may have some and he is close...Might PM him.

Check your U bolts on your rear axle, too. If they are loose, your axle is going to rotate. You may also have broken a leaf (like someone mentioned) or sheared off the center pin in the spring, which would cause your axle to move. I would leave doing anything more than a visual and tighten on the spring junk until the very last as it is a bigger project to replace the center pin (NAPA has these, BTW) or broken leaf than anything else.

[Squshiee1]

not a bad idea, i do have a sears gift card that needs some attention.

[Islidur]

You could go to Autozone and borrow the wrenches. But, if I had a Sears gift card, I'd already be in the tool department.

[Robert B]

only 5000 miles on tires as in total???? or since last rotation??? i rotate mine evey 3000 miles........when i change my oil....

[Squshiee1]

5000 total, they are still new. but since i have been having problems with the studs im scared to do the rest of the car.

[Robert B]

ah new tires id rotate even sooner than 3 k for a while lol and as in the lug nut studs???? what problems?

[Brody]

Ditto what Robert asked: What is the problem you are having with the studs, studly?

[Squshiee1]

The studs are getting stripped inside of the ...(mount)? or something of that sort, i know the front tires are ok, but im not sure about the rear. and what tends to happen it the lug, also gets stripped onto the stud, so it tuns into a lug and stud, Thats one piece instead of coming apart into 2 pieces.

[Popsgarage]

The studs are getting stripped inside of the

I believe the term you're looking for is "flange", Chase.

[Squshiee1]

Maybe? i have never heard it before so i wouldn't know. i guess its flange! thanks!

[Mporter]

I believe the term you're looking for is "flange", Chase.

Nah, I think the technical term is "stud holder"

[Fordguy77]

Chris (Fordboy) may have some and he is close...Might PM him.
Indeed i do, i have bother long and short versions of the allen sockets, and near 7 feet of extensions :thumb: If you end up needing some let me know Chase. Ill shall be out of own Thursday-Sunday however.

only 5000 miles on tires as in total???? or since last rotation???
5000 is the generally accepted recommend discount tire rotation mileage. I do every other oil change, so im normally a little over, but me, i only have 3 sets worth rotating.

[Fordguy77]

The studs are getting stripped inside of the ...(mount)? or something of that sort, i know the front tires are ok, but im not sure about the rear. and what tends to happen it the lug, also gets stripped onto the stud, so it tuns into a lug and stud, Thats one piece instead of coming apart into 2 pieces.
It sounds like you have some serious over torquing going on to cause that. And even potentially cross threading/wrong lug nuts. If its happening fairly often one of these could be the issue. Its not normally for the wheel studs to spin out. As most are splined and press-fit so they wont rotate out. Thats just what comes to my mind when i am reading this. But who knows just my :2c:

[Brody]

If what Chris said is the case, then you can try to tack the back flange of the stud onto the backing plate/mount, but this is a hit or miss thing. If you can find different studs that are a larger diameter and the same thread size (they are there, but good luck. If you had a car, you can do this a lot of times stepping up to a truck size..on some stuff), you can see if you can find studs in a US standard that are slightly bigger, or you can replace the rotor or rear brake(I don't know if you have drums or discs in the rear) and use the stock studs.

Just some suggestions. Whatever you decide to do, remember that you are going to be putting 90-110fp of torque on them...

[Squshiee1]

Well, i know that they are all the right size, they go on by hand until they need to be torqued down, i have a torque wrench also for this. i go about 60 lbs per, and then 90 and then the 120lbs. from what i have heard 120 is even a little low. i was thinking about having someone tack on my studs, but my dad is getting a welder so that works to. i think i will have to wait until next weekend yo do my tire job. this weekend will be for my bushings. Does anyone know the approximate time it would take to replace a cv boot?

[Brody]

Well if you are zinging then down past 120 fp, that may be part of the issue. If the lug nuts loosened up, then you probably wobbled out the holes that the splines under the flange of the hut head are supposed to seat into:

Rodeo Sport was available from 1998 to 2003. The torque specs for the Rodeo's lug nuts varied from year to year, but in most years all trims shared the same lug-nut specs.
General Torque Information

The 1991 to 1995 Isuzu Rodeo

For all trims of the 1991 to 1995 Isuzu Rodeo, except for those with aluminum wheels, tighten the lug nuts to 66 foot-pounds of torque. For those with aluminum wheels, tighten the lug nuts to 87 foot-pounds of torque.
The 1996 to 1997 Isuzu Rodeo

The torque specs for the lug nuts were the same for all trims of the 1996 to 1997 Isuzu Rodeo. The lug nuts should be tightened to 66 foot-pounds of torque.
The 1998 to 2004 Isuzu Rodeo and the 1998 to 2003 Rodeo Sport

The torque specs were the same for all trims of the 1998 to 2004 Isuzu Rodeo and the 1998 to 2003 Isuzu Rodeo Sport. The lug nuts should be tightened to 87 foot-pounds.

If you are around the 90-100 range, you should be fine. I torque my steel rims to 110....and then double check them


http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107

http://www.dormanproducts.com/documents4rb/WheelNutTorqueSpecsMASTER.pdf

[Squshiee1]

WOW! :what:
Well, that is most definitively my problem, i need to be at 66? i have aftermarket alloys. maybe 70. i have the 97 rodeo

[Brody]

Personally, I have always thought that 60-70 fp is a bit low and go for 80ish. What you are going to do with alloys torqued down too much is usually create stress cracks in the rims more than anything else. It actually takes quite a lot to rotate a "new" stud in a "new" hole if they are driven in and seated right. And seating the studs usually requires a fair amount of beating to flush them out. If the holes are wobbled out to the point where a replacement stud doesn't require a lot of force to seat it flush, then the stud is simply going to spin in the hole. I have had this happen a couple of times when I have had the misfortune of loosing a lug nut and it seldom happens unless most of them come loose, much like beating a nail in a piece of wood back and forth to loosen it.

BTW, are you working with drums or discs?

[Squshiee1]

well, in the rear its a drum/disc combo, the drum is for the parking brake. and the front is disks.
Its not that hard to properly seat them. you just take an open end lug and tighten it on. they seat great. you cant possibly beat them on there is no room.

[Brody]

You seat the lug studs from the back side. For instance on rotors, if you need to replace the lug studs or replace a rotor, you have to take the rotor completely off, drive the old/damaged studs out, and drive the new studs in, all from the back side of the rotor. This is similar to what you have to do for the rears. All this work has to be done from the back side and there is no way to do that without taking the drum/disc/rotor off the vehicles. All you can see from the front/wheel side is the threaded shank. If the hole for the splined part, the part under the flanged head of the lug stud, is damaged, or the stud is broken, you will have to take the rotor/drum/disc, etc off to deal with the problem.

Here is what you are dealing with:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy9t1mU0lG0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAcMwPCI6a0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA1cUdNlOHI&feature=endscreen&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLQ15VaHRK4&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0avY0p0PU4&feature=relmfu

As you can see from this, on the rears, you will most likely have to pull the axle to get to the back where you can replace the studs. No fun and a lot of BS work to replace a $3 item. It all depends on the vehicle. On the fronts, with discs, it is pretty straight forward. Remove the wheel, remove the caliper, take the hub assembly/rotor off and hammer the damaged ones out. If you have to replace the rotor and plan on reusing the old studs, use an old lug nut threaded down onto the stud to avoid damaging the threads. They neither come out easily nor install easily. Expect to do some hammering. One trick is to use a crap socket and socket extension for a little extra reach if you need it. It is a little harder to reinstall them due to lack of room and again, a crap extension or something similar, will allow you to seat the studs. Again, it all depends on the vehicle, but the videos will get you in the ball park. If you are lucky, your replacement studs will seat in the old holes without drama.

It is a basic PITA type job.

[Fordguy77]

Glad we caught that! I was wondering why you were goin through so many. A lot of people think the tighter the better, but it can mess some things up pretty bad.aluminum rims don't like over tighten lugs. I know of a certain f150 the wonderful techs at discount over torqued the lugs on to the point where they snapped while driving the road. Luckily I had just gotten off the highway to inspect the rear as I felt somethin a miss. I turn off the on ramp and all of a sudden my brand new tire goes zoomin past me. Luckily it hit a curb poppeed up like 20 feet then hit a tree and came to rest. My brake backing plate was toast, and made it an extreme pita to get my axle pulled to replace thue studs. I personally prefer the big c clamp with a socket type press method over beat and bang. But do what's ya gotta do. Hopefully the spindle/wheelflange/lug holder holes aren't toast.

[Squshiee1]

i have been told by just about everyone that they should be at 140lbs but i refused to go that high, so i went to 120lbs thinking that it was safe.
Discount, warren tech, my dad, my mechanic.

Thats why i have you guys! :GroupHug:

[Robert B]

haha wow 120 foot pounds my truck says to do exactly 88 pounds for my big truck lol .....

[Robert B]

and i dont really want to offend you or your dad but where in the damn hell did they got those torque numbers????!?!?!?!? nothing on my entire truck is over a 100 i think ......will up date this in a few mins as i go look at my torque book and various cheat sheets....... holy crap man .....

[Robert B]

well lets see here if i had 8 lug axles 9/16 studs it says 118 pounds big block V8 main bearing cap bolts 110 pounds full float axle shaft to hub flange bolts 115 pounds and i dont have that stuuf everything on my truck is 88 pounds or lower lol oh wait u blots are higher and i think one really big steering bolt is higher but thats it lol.....
........
...
now on a 1 ton truck if i had a new lower control arm bushing bolt i would torque it to 280 pounds lol

[Squshiee1]

hey no offence taken, i just do what i am told by the people i trust. so i will try 70ftlbs and see what happens. i will check them every couple of miles and see what happens.

[Fordguy77]

hey no offence taken, i just do what i am told by the people i trust. so i will try 70ftlbs and see what happens. i will check them every couple of miles and see what happens.

The only issue now thou is if there is preexsiting damage to the wheels or the lugs from the previoud torque. So it may or may not work the way described.