Do I need to get a high out put alternator?

[Jeepfreak]

I am putting a warn M8000 winch on my jeep and am wondering if I should get a better alernator than the stock one that is on it now? I am open to any and all advice.
Thanks in advance:thumb:

[Brody]

Doesn't hurt at all. Your alternator is what takes the beating and there are a lot of cheap junkyard alternatives to a high dollar alternator, so keep that in mind.

[scout man]

Do those run the AC delco style alternators? If so, I have a CS130 (roughly 110 amp alternator) in my garage that is perfectly functional, but soon to be returned for a core charge. If you want it, you can have it for the core charge price, $60

[Jeepfreak]

Thanks Scout man I appreciate the offer but I'm stationed in the middle east right now. I have never really messed with using any other alternators other than stock so when I get home I will have to do my homework and figure out what I need and can use. I do know that the $400 dollar high output alternators are more than I want to spend.
Thanks Guys

[Brody]

Most of the compiled alternator information on the forum. The first deals with a cheap Jeep alternator upgrade and was in the Jeep Make and Model TECH:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?2755-JEEP-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS/page2 Post #17

These two were in the TECH section:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?7814-Alternator-Rebuild-High-Performance-links

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?4141-Alternator-modifications-links

[Meatloaf]

Do you have a good battery? I would upgrade that first before the altinator. If your engine won't start and you need to winch out of a trickey situation, an altinator won't do you any good.

[Hypoid]

Yup! The alternator does not put put out enough Amps to run the winch. The battery(s) store the Amps needed to run the winch for the relatively short time it runs. The alternator recharges the battery(s) over a longer period of time.

The bottom line is that Amps=heat, more Amps=more heat. You need to look at the Amp draw during that high demand period, and resize your current system to handle the load: Alternator, wires, battery storage. It's a lot of money for the times you hope you never need it, but it sure looks purdy the time it just sits there. :)

[Chris]

Hey Mike, this is something that Marty touched on in an earlier thread of mine and I recall him saying he upgraded his wiring but not his alternator and that he's worked the hell out of his winch over the years without issue using the stock alternator and battery. I once understood all the electrical theory but no longer do.

Any suggestion/recommendation on that concept? For the record I will never add a second battery nor will I upgrade my alternator since my winch gets minimal use. I may upgrade wiring if it's worthwhile though.

[Brody]

I was using a high output after market alternator in my Toyota for a number of years and never did an upgrade to my wiring. That alternator died(after about 5 years) and, due to simple lack of funds, I replaced it with the stock 3.4L alternator a couple of years ago. I am running dual batteries and my winches see a lot of use. Other than one time when I was winching a big Dodge that weighed in at over 9,000 pounds straight up a snow covered hill with an 8,000 pound Warn winch, I haven't noticed a real difference.

The only thing that that particular pull did (and yes, I knew that the winch wasn't exactly "rated" for the task before I began the pull...which was a long one...) was to peg the amp gauge into the minus more than once and I had to wait a couple of moments before continuing. Having pulled crap out before...and with a 'stock' alternator and 'stock' wiring(with this and other rigs)...that weighed a lot more than what the winch was rated at (one time a big and filled logging 2.5 truck and another a 60' cherry picker, both very heavy and both stuck in mud) with no issues, as well as having to pack snow or wet rags around the winch to keep it cool on other occasions, all I can say is that whereas upgraded wiring, a high output alternator, and dual batteries may be the best thing to have (any upgraded stuff is better than the stock crap), they certainly are not necessary in my experience.

Having used winches since I was about 15 on a mess of different vehicles, stock and modified, most of them being used past the point of anything remotely within the manufacturer's 'suggested ratings' in logging, wheeling, construction, demolition, etc, I have never run into a real issue. And I am talking stock alternators and, a lot of the time, your basic and cheapass 'keep it running' battery. Will I upgrade the stock alternator or get it rebuilt to a higher amperage at some point? Sure, because I like to have my crap beefed up. Is it really necessary? I would say yes, but only if you expect to have to use the hell out of it. If I were to run, say Carnage BV or anyone of the other "hard" trails where I can expect to possibly have to use the winch a lot, I would probably do the upgrade to be on the safe side before doing so. If we lived in a state where there were a lot of hard pulls to get people out of being stuck in mud, I would yes to that, too. Basic winch use, probably not.

When I rebuild (or get rebuilt) the high output alternator, I will probably use that as my main alternator and install the second alternator to run the other battery. Why? Why not. What better place to carry a spare alternator than under the hood already hooked up and running. They do it all the time in Australia and other places where there is actually some remaining 'remote' wheeling, something that you can't really say for the god old USA...Any time that you can walk for a day or less to get to help or civilization...or parts...isn't 'remote' in my book....:lmao:

My :2c: based on limited or no knowledge or use of winches or winching techniques, or ownership of a 4x4:D

[Jeepfreak]

That is a ton of good information. Thanks very much guys I can't wait to meet you guys in person someday.:cheers:

[Hypoid]

Any suggestion/recommendation on that concept? For the record I will never add a second battery nor will I upgrade my alternator since my winch gets minimal use. I may upgrade wiring if it's worthwhile though.
It's all about the duty cycle. Out of a ten minute period, how many minutes does your equipment work, how many minutes does it spend cooling down or recharging?

The biggest Amp load your battery has, is the starter motor, for two seconds. The biggest drain on your battery is sitting at a stop, with all the lights on, defroster on high, wipers on high, for two minutes. Automakers don't design cars for Pete, they design them for the 99% of the population that needs to get from point A to point B. They design them to be just good enough, for minimal cost in materials. If you crank the starter for extended periods, the cables will get hot. If you are stuck in traffic, during a blizzard, at night, you can drain the battery running all that equipment with the engine at idle.

As Pete illustrated, you can push the limits of the duty cycle, if you are mindful of the loads you put on the equipment. If you don't want to wait, improve on the duty cycle by increasing the capacity of your electrical system:

The alternator is a bad news/good news. EFI is a power hog, automakers have to install higher output alternators. They can operate at a higher output for extended periods. If you have a vehicle with all the whistles and bells, don't use them when you need to run other accessories.

Cables are always an area that can stand improvement. Like mentioned earlier, they come from the factory sized for the 99% usage. When the wires heat up, the connectors get hot. Guess where most electrical gremlins live.:) Wire sizing is a consideration of load, working environment, and insulation rating. I'm not going into that here.

Batteries are still batteries. You buy one that fits in your car, you pay more for a higher reserve rating. If you run a lot of toys, buy a lot of reserve. Watch the voltmeter when you have to use that reserve. Of course, you can always have one battery for running the car, and another battery for running the toys. Use an isolater to keep the toys from draining the car's battery.

To the OP, look at the cables and battery first, see if there is a factory alternator with a higher output rating than the one you have. For lack of a better analogy, you can use a deer rifle to hunt elk, but you will walk a lot further to dress it out and put your tag on it.

[Popsgarage]

Mike's hit this right on the head!

[Chris]

Cool, good info Mike and Pete :thumb:

If I'm grasping the info I can gt by just mine as I am considering very limited use that I put my winch through. My mindset is that I want to be able to get myself out of a mess when solo or someone else when a strap isn't enough. I was convinced of the need when I had to leave my truck on a trail when I was stuck with a tree 10 feet in front of me. :mad:

My stock alternator is 130 amp which I understand is higher than many but I also have more bells and whistles than Carter has pills. I'm smart enough to turn off what I can when using the winch. Really! I am! :D

Is there a way to determine what impact oversize wiring would have for output? Same for a larger wire for battery? Looking at the "bang for the buck"

TIA! :thumb:

[bkhjeep]

I just did the 136 amp upgrade on my 01 4.0(114 amp is the most you can factory get).Mine came from a 98 Dodge van,You have to use a few parts from the stock one so you don't have cut your harness and grind the mount a little but it is an easy inexpensive upgrade to help your battery keep up as the others pointed out.Google it for more info.
I run a Optima yellow and the 136 amp and it works well.

[Brody]

Is there a way to determine what impact oversize wiring would have for output? Same for a larger wire for battery? Looking at the "bang for the buck"

I'll let Mike wing this one as he has a huge knowledge base, but I would suggest that you go with the 00 or whatever the big size welding cable is and military style battery connectors for a basic wiring upgrade. You can get the wire by the foot at any welding supply house. When I moved my batteries to the back of my truck (the same time I did the 3.4L swap years ago) I had to deal with the distance between where they were and where they were going to live. I went with the biggest and finest wire cables I could get.