Please help me figure this out.....

[sdhill]

So I have been trying to figure this out for almost 6 months. :confused: It all started after I snapped a yoke, damaged my t-case, and bent my front driveshaft. At that point I went in and did the gears ,locker and a EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE D60. I had a new clutch put in, rebuilt transmission and t-case. I just picked up a new driveshaft from Bill at Englewood today, I thought it would solve the problem. I have also had the R&P setup checked 3 times, had it in at 3 shops and no one can give me any advice worthwhile.

I have got a bad vibration and noise from 5mph to as fast as I want the truck to go. It sounds like a hub, then gears, then t-case. It did change with the new drive line...got WORSE. If anyone would mind taking a ride or listing to it that would be amazing!!!! I really want to go on the run this coming weekend. If your local I can meet you wherever, tonight, tomorrow, suday, monday.....

[Brody]

Want to come down to Arvada and I will be happy to check it out and give you what input I can. Driveline vibrations suck. I am tied up working here at the house both days this weekend, so I can't come up there and won't hear my phone. You are about 30 minutes from me:

Peter Brody
6139 Reed Way
Arvada, Co 80003

I70 to Wadsworth, north to 62nd, east on 62nd to Reed Way/cottonwood Ridge, right to 6139 with the black exo'd Yota in front.
Arvada, CO 80003

[sdhill]

Want to come down to Arvada and I will be happy to check it out and give you what input I can. Driveline vibrations suck. I am tied up working here at the house both days this weekend, so I can't come up there and won't hear my phone. You are about 30 minutes from me:

Peter Brody
6139 Reed Way
Arvada, Co 80003

I70 to Wadsworth, north to 62nd, east on 62nd to Reed Way/cottonwood Ridge, right to 6139 with the black exo'd Yota in front.
Arvada, CO 80003

That would be perfect. I'm free anytime tomorrow or Sunday.

[Robert B]

this is kinda dangerous but if you have some sturdy jackstands you can elevate the truck tires just off the ground (2 or all 4) and put it in drive and spin it all up and see if its still there and then you can look at things and if you want to chance it touch housing (bare hands or the stethescope) or other parts to try and find it if you dont see it...

[mattzj98]

Check your pinion angle dude! that will def. cause what you are describing! no matter how well balanced the ds is :)

[sdhill]

this is kinda dangerous but if you have some sturdy jackstands you can elevate the truck tires just off the ground (2 or all 4) and put it in drive and spin it all up and see if its still there and then you can look at things and if you want to chance it touch housing (bare hands or the stethescope) or other parts to try and find it if you dont see it...

I did actually try that. This was bf the new driveshaft though. It did not make any noise and I got it up to about 35mph. I was able to crawl under there while it was turning but I could not come to any real conclusions, I did not have a stethescope.

[sdhill]

Check your pinion angle dude! that will def. cause what you are describing! no matter how well balanced the ds is :)

Now stop me if I'm wrong here but the pinion angle will largely depend on what u-joints Ive got and the amount of flex I have. Ive been told by High County, CrawlerTech, Englewood Drive shaft and Four Wheel Parts (I know just about every one one here, Matt, hates them) that the angles look fine. I was however told by Detroit Trans that it was way to little.

[Hypoid]

I have got a bad vibration and noise from 5mph to as fast as I want the truck to go. It sounds like a hub, then gears, then t-case. It did change with the new drive line...got WORSE.
Hubs locked?
Hubs unlocked?
2 wheel drive?
4 wheel drive?
Rotate tires?
Same result with front shaft removed?
Even though it shouldn't matter, did anyone put an angle finder on the driveline to see what the actual numbers are?

[mattzj98]

That's what I was just going to say, may look ok by the eye, but see what it really is and what it's supposed to be

[sdhill]

Hubs locked? Yes
Hubs unlocked? NO
2 wheel drive? Yes, when hubs are locked
4 wheel drive? Yes
Rotate tires? No, but did it with my 35's and 37's
Same result with front shaft removed? Silent with no shaft
Even though it shouldn't matter, did anyone put an angle finder on the driveline to see what the actual numbers are? Nope, although is it that simple? I thought you had to factor in the pinion angle to the shaft then the angle to the t-case with some adjustment for the CV to the shaft and then I don't know ha ha:erm: Everything I seam to read say something a little different.

[Hotchef181818]

If its silent without the shaft thats a pretty good indicator that the pinion angle is off. A couple degrees can make the difference between silent and noisy.

[Robert B]

2 wheel drive? Yes, when hubs are locked

Same result with front shaft removed? Silent with no shaft

these two things right here stand out for me as to ur problem...... it would then be the front end (is that the d60 you speak of?) or front drive shaft since if that is not turning and only the back turns it is quiet correct ????? do you have any wear marks on the u joints or the flanges any where??? im guessing you tried it in 4WD with no front shaft??? if so then that eliminates the t case in my opinion......


oh heres one i just thought of it is useing the correct size u joints right???? my truck has 2 sizes that are BARELY different but would cause this ...... mine differs from manual trucks to automatic trucks

[sdhill]

2 wheel drive? Yes, when hubs are locked

Same result with front shaft removed? Silent with no shaft

these two things right here stand out for me as to ur problem...... it would then be the front end (is that the d60 you speak of?) or front drive shaft since if that is not turning and only the back turns it is quiet correct ????? do you have any wear marks on the u joints or the flanges any where??? im guessing you tried it in 4WD with no front shaft??? if so then that eliminates the t case in my opinion......


oh heres one i just thought of it is useing the correct size u joints right???? my truck has 2 sizes that are BARELY different but would cause this ...... mine differs from manual trucks to automatic trucks

At this point I suppose it could still be a problem in the D60. You are correct, when only the back is turning everything is quite. Bill at Englewood driveshaft did notice that someone put the wrong size u-joint in the pinion yoke on the shaft, but that has been corrected. I do have a new yoke on the way because it does have wear marks and a small crack. I did try it in 4WD with no shaft and she runs quiet. I would agree that it eliminates the t-case.

All this multiple sizes of u-joints drives me crazy. LOL

[sdhill]

Thanks again Pete for taking a look at things today. He concluded that I should try some 4 degree shims. SO, I picked some up today and in the process of the install I snapped and stripped a U-bolt. They were the factory ones and have been off three times so I think putting the stress back on them for a fourth time just did them in. :bang::bang: Does anyone know where I could get some new ones on a Sunday?? They are the square not round style.

[Geno]

I have been talking with Robert B on this, reading your notes , if noise is still there after shims are installed , my question is What T-case does your truck have? noise yes in 4wd with saft in ,no noise with shaft out , chain case? gear case? what was damadged on T-case when problem occured, and what was repaired to the Tcase? As you guessed I am leaning to a T-case problem. When open and worked on spacers /shims need to be in correct placement, if installed on wrong side on forgoten gears can touch case sides, or slack/loose chain can sling out and touch the bottom of the case under any kind of load. I would have to hear noise in person and get underneath and listen with my doctor stick. Just a different suggestion to look at.

[Brody]

PM me the inside dimensions and overall length of the U bolts. I have some long square ones from a Tacoma that you are welcome to that are brand new and designed for the rear axle with 4" blocks. They MAY work, but the Taco ain't a 1 ton, so the actual dimension may not fit over you axles. I'll measure them as soon as I hear back from you.

Gene...it didn't 'sound' like it was coming from the T case, but from the left front(driver's side) if anywhere at all. Love those drivetrain noises....The pinion angle isn't good, but it isn't real bad, either. What my guess what was that the old driveshaft had slop in it that was sucking up any real vibration noise. The new drive shaft has none, so what noise/vibration that came up was the result of the lack of slop which made the difference in the pinion angle more apparent.

Everything looks very tight under the rig, too, with no movement in the T case, or noticeable wear patterns in the motor mount bolts. With new bearings, hubs, ball joints, etc, and the fact that the noise wasn't really under the seat or tranny tunnel....It was also about as noisy as my heap on the pavement in 4 wheel drive, which probably says something about the slop in my front shaft.....

[Hypoid]

Nope, although is it that simple? I thought you had to factor in the pinion angle to the shaft then the angle to the t-case with some adjustment for the CV to the shaft and then I don't know ha ha Everything I seam to read say something a little different.
You are right, it is not that simple. You have to take measurements at the yokes to determine driveline angles. I'm kinda surprised to see an engineering type who doesn't demand numbers. :D

NAPA might have your U-bolts, at the warehouse in Commerce City: http://napaonline.com/

[sdhill]

You are right, it is not that simple. You have to take measurements at the yokes to determine driveline angles. I'm kinda surprised to see an engineering type who doesn't demand numbers. :D

NAPA might have your U-bolts, at the warehouse in Commerce City: http://napaonline.com/

Ha yeah, I''m sick of numbers at this point. As you know this has been a problem for a while now and it's driving me crazy! I think the Ford is cursed, time for a Jeep or yota, LOL

I went last night to the warehouse store and came really close to what I needed It was just slightly to big in rod diameter, and the threads did not go far enough on the bolt.

[Brody]

I just got a PM on the U Bolt dimensions. The junk I have is too narrow (2 5/8" and 2 3/4") so if anyone has one this size kicking around post it up. Thanks in advance.

Inside width: 3 1/8"
Length: Greater than 9"
Rod diameter: About 1/2"

[Hypoid]

I think the Ford is cursed, time for a Jeep or yota, LOLI'll give you fiddy cents for it. :D

If you are stuck with waiting for regular business hours, Midwest Truck Parts is about the best place up here for new U-Bolts. Denver Spring and suspension is a good second choice. They are a little more expensive, and closed on the weekend.

http://www.rmftc.com/gallery/data/533/spring001.jpg

[Brody]

Thanks, Mike! I sent him the same info with the exception of the diagram in a PM...Great minds and all that , right?

And both Yotas and Jeeps have their own lovely little issues, as I am sure the owners of either will attest to....

Oh...the diff/pinion is sitting almost level at rest and the drive shaft is coming in at around 14-18 degrees (technical eyeball guesstimate:D), which is why I thought the shims might work.

[Geno]

Pete, I trust your guess, and 14 to 18 degrees is to much, when I do lifts I try to set the rears at around 8-10 degrees max, and 15 degrees max at the T-case,( I like to cruise at 80 mph) That is why when we redue Roberts we are going cartigan joints at T-case to spread his angle across 2 joints ,thus his 18 degress will be 9 each, just make sure enough centering pin sticks through the shim to make good contact with axle mounting plate. I have seen shims so big that less than 1/8 inch of the pin is in the axle plate hole. Learn from others mistakes as my Dad always said.:2c::2c:

[sdhill]

Picked up some new U-bolts this morning and took her for a test drive. The noise and vibration has been reduced quite a bit with the 4 degree shims. I do still feel some vibrations and noise though. At his point I think I will call it good and see how it does on the run this weekend. Gene, I did end up going with shims that bolt in the the spring pack so I think I will be good with the center pins sticking far enough into the perch.

Thanks for everyones time and suggestions on this matter. I really do appreciate it.

[Brody]

You are welcome! Good group of folks here. Everyone tries to help out if they can.

Poke through the pictures on this link and it might help explain things:

https://www.google.com/search?q=driveshaft+angle+diagrams&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=ZUa&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=9wpWT72DCoi5twexoLWZCQ&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=596