Taking Care of Our Own...

[RockyMtnHigh]

We have a situation where a forum member is owed a sum of money by another forum member. I am not going to name names at this point, but I did want to get opinions and thoughts from the rest of the forum members on the matter at hand, in hopes that maybe the responsible party will see they need take care of their outstanding debt, because I am confident that the rest of you will agree with the few of us in the know of this situation. If the responsible party does not take care of it in a week from the posting of this thread and we're all on the same page, their name will be mentioned and we will take the necessary steps in removing them from the site. This may not be viewed as a big deal, but there are quite a few members on here who also belong to other clubs/organizations and before long word will get out. Don't be the FR4x4 version of Charlie Wenzle (http://www.insanityinc.us/insane0076.html).

I am trying to be as vague as possible here, in case this person decides to show some integrity and takes care of the situation. They can continue being a member without anyone being any wiser to them being responsible.

Several months ago (5) one of our members did some work for a another member whom he had just met, upon completion of the work payment was asked for and this member didn't have any cash on them at the time. In my opinion, knowing you didn't have the cash, you shouldn't have asked for the work, PERIOD! There was an agreement set and the person said they would take care of it in a couple of days. Several PMs went back and forth between the two people over the last 5 months and the person responsible said they would take care of it after they received their tax refund, two weeks ago they sent a PM saying the "check was in the mail". As of yesterday, the check/money hasn't been received. Sorry, but it doesn't take the post office two weeks to deliver anything within the state.

What's really bothering the person who is owed, is the other person is posting about buying crap for their rig on here! They also attended the Anniversary Run.

So...what do you guys think? Should this person take care of their outstanding debt and how would you feel if someone was doing this to you?

***UPDATE***

This is the asshat in question:

Jesse Williams formerly known as Jesse05LJ:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj66/4runnerFreak/Misc%20Pics%20Links/1D2aeQcc0AjXR62f2auLU2MnGd515p.jpg

His rig:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj66/4runnerFreak/Misc%20Pics%20Links/163046_1617922861343_1634532433_1415566_7814697_n. jpg

[dannanw]

The money issue I agree with, if you can't pay can't play. Who ever is owing $$ needs to either pay or set up some type of agreement. I hope it works out for all involved. That's exactly why I am slowing down on new parts, ran out of the $$ from the quad sell.

[Squshiee1]

i was in the same spot, i owed someone money for a cb, i had the money, but never set up a time to meet. a couple of months after, they reminded me about it, got some money and sent them there cash. it was my fault and i fessed up to it and payed my debt. i even left a sorry note. :)

[mattzj98]

well, it sucks when people owe you money, rule I set a while back, If you lend money, don't expect them back.

I have been in a situation where my bmw's motor blew up and my mom stepped up and paid for it. She expected me to pay her back whenever I can. I spen last 2.5 months not buying a drink or lunch at work but bringing sandwitches from work just to pay my mom back every penny i earn to get it taken care of as soon as possilbe.

In my opinion paying off your debt should be #1 priority. Especially in a club like this one. The way I see it, this is a big family, people take care of eachother, whoever owes the money needs to take care of people who took care of them.


Dont ask for help or work done if you're not planning on paying back. Money doesn't fall from the sky nor do they grow on trees so make sure you have a way of paying back before anything. I'm sorry for the member who's getting screwed over, hope it gets resolved soon

[Kory]

In my opinion, knowing you didn't have the cash, you shouldn't have asked for the work, PERIOD!

I agree 100%.

If the person said they would pay in a couple days and did not that's BS also IMO.

A person is only as good as his or her word. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

If it has been 5 months this person has had WAY MORE than enough time to take care of his debt.

My opinion? Ban him. If he has not payed his debt in 5 months I think its fair to say he won't any time soon.

:2c:

[Heather]

Should this person take care of their outstanding debt
Is a frog's a$$ watertight?


how would you feel if someone was doing this to you?
I would be absolutely furious. This hits pretty close to home. My husband and I speak from experience dealing financially with forum members. We had NO idea when we joined FR4x4 what an amazing asset this place would be - in relationships, and assistance. We "hired" someone to do work on our rigs - and he's done several (amazing) projects for us since about last summer. Multiple-thousands of dollars-worth. Each time, we either paid on the spot, or shortly thereafter (and in these cases, I sweat profusely paying things like house and car payments, until he was paid) - and kept communication ABOUT money before, during, and after. It's not like we commissioned work, the person completed the work, and then were like, "Oh, yeah, by the way, we don't have the dough right now..." Things aren't easy for us, either - two kids, three dog, two cats, typical debt...but man, it feels good to not only have the work done on the toys, but to be able to pay a forum member for the same. It feels even better to have cash in hand when we commission something. Everyone's got bills to pay, mouths to feed. If you can't pay, don't stiff a fellow (forum family) member. And as for skipping a run - if nothing else, out of respect to whom you owe money. Out of principle. We missed at least one run for the same reason last year. I'm really sorry to hear that this has happened. I hope the parties can settle up and move on in a positive way. It really sucks when this happens, especially in such a tight community.

</self-righteous rant>

[Java]

Not too many ways to look at that one. I'd say this posting should serve as fair warning. Generous warning after all that, IMO.

[Hotchef181818]

I will add that I have had some interactions with people on this site when I was selling off a load of parts last year. My terms were very loose and I let people have parts before cash changed hands at all, EVERY single person paid on time, even when I had forgotten about it. In my opinion it shouldn't have been kept quiet or allowed to get to this point. I also understand this is for a substantial amount of my money and for that reason alone it should result in immediate ban to solidify things like this won't happen to another member.

Think about it this way, if someone was willing to do this to a member of such a tight knit group imagine what they are doing elsewhere.

I understand life gets in the way sometimes but 5 months, buying more parts, showing up on runs with this going on???? To me it's a blatant act of disregard regardless of what's going on in ones personal life.

To say the least I would be furious if faced with this situation.

[Hypoid]

I understand life gets in the way sometimes but 5 months, buying more parts, showing up on runs with this going on???? To me it's a blatant act of disregard regardless of what's going on in ones personal life.
In a nutshell.

[mattzj98]

We missed at least one run for the same reason last year. I'm really sorry to hear that this has happened.

lets not have that happen again :) glad to take anyone anytime.. got 5 seats in this grocery getter :)

[RockyMtnHigh]

So far the responses have been exactly as I expected. :thumb:

I want to add, if ANYONE is being screwed around by anyone else, please PM one of the mods or Aaron and we will do our best to help resolve the issue, you're not alone and it will not be tolerated!

[Java]

There was an agreement set and the person said they would take care of it in a couple of days. Several PMs went back and forth between the two people over the last 5 months and the person responsible said they would take care of it after they received their tax refund, two weeks ago they sent a PM saying the "check was in the mail".

Aside from the forum, that is all you need to go to small claims court. Electronic communication has been the same as written since Bill Clinton, that is a contract. It is an easy process to file, an easy process to go to "court", which will probably be just an office, and then you own that person's credit until they pay you. You can also sell it to a collection agency (they'll contact you if you get a judgement, no need to google). Nothing personal, I have no idea who is involved, just what I would do. It's cool to be a nice guy, but business is business and that's what court is for.

[Jackie]

To whoever owes the money... Shame on you.:mad:

That is no way to treat a friend, and I was under the assumption we were all friends here even if we have never met in person. I've seen people here trust their tools, rigs, kids, houses, you name it - to other members of this group. Nobody expects to get screwed. I've even paid more $ than agreed upon before because I thought the person wasn't charging me enough.

[MelloYello]

I feel this is not acceptable in any way. This person should be outed. I have seen on other forum a "member feedback" section where one can post up things like this. Peer pressure seems to work wonders on a$$hats like this. Word travels fast from forum to form and soon this person will have nowhere to hide!

[RockyMtnHigh]

I think it should be made public who owes who in this situation. Considering they have chosen not to pay for this long, let everyone know so that they don't deal with them! Wonder how this **** would fly in the Military? I know what that would end like..................

Understand that my initial response was to ban him and make it public, but I would also like to see the person who is owed get paid. If I ban the person in question and make it public there is really no incentive for them to cough up the dough. Like I said though, if you're being screwed around by someone let us know, another instance like this regarding this person and I don't care what happens it'll be made public.

[RockyMtnHigh]

Maybe a temporary ban until the debt is paid?

Well if I do that, it won't be too hard to figure out who they are. Trust me, I am itching to do it, we'll see what they say in response to my PM.

[Robert B]

ifthe owed person is cool with it set up a final deadline.... or payment plan....if the one who needs to pay misses that then get rid of them cause i am all for second chances and that final deadline would be chance number 2 ........ this is one of the biggest things to me .....i HATE owing people money ...i do like the people who offer to help when im in need but i dont like to be in debt like that

[Rob]

I just hope he had a good time at the anniversary run, burning gas bought with someone else's money. Gotta wonder about some people's priorities, not to mention ethics.

[Roostercruiser]

Pay ur debts or trade something of same value till debts r paid

[skfnick]

In terms of debt... I won't even make an agreement with my grandfather over buying a car by paying him off monthly, its not that I couldn't pay on time I just don't want the debt.

If you do have a debt to pay you should defiantly pay it BEFORE you go PLAY or go buy stuff you DON'T need. So, going on a trail run while owing another member money is essentially a slap to the face in my eyes. Man up and pay or make a payment plan if you can't afford to do it all at once. From what I understand its not that much money the member that owes could of not gone on the run and used the money spent on GAS ALONE to pay off almost all if not all of the debt.

[Jackie]

Well said.
:clap::clap::clap:

[Fatboris]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but taking something with no intention of paying it back (like, oh yeah, I forgot my wallet) is stealing.

There's a lot of horse trading that goes on here, I've bought stuff from members, and since this isn't ebay where people have ratings I just assume everyone in the club is a standup guy (or gal as the case may be) At some point you have to weigh what's more important. Is it to spare this person's feelings or keep someone else from getting stiffed down the road?

I hope whoever it is steps up and does what's right here. If you're really THAT broke, make an arrangement and stick to it. Think of this like amnesty day at the library (for those of us old enough to remember what a library is) Get your business taken care of right quick and don't pull that BS on FR again, lesson learned. No one wants to be vindictive and get revenge, we just want the member to get paid and to be able to continue with FR being more family like instead of just another BBS. :2c:

[Chris]

I should probably keep my mouth shut but since I'm the guy who hit the delete key on a few former members who did this crap in the past I'll make it simple. If you're going to stiff another member you don't belong here.

Probably would have already deleted this "member" if I was able to but this bullsh!t is one reason I abdicated those powers.

[Hypoid]

No one wants to be vindictive and get revenge, we just want the member to get paid and to be able to continue with FR being more family like instead of just another BBS.
I think that is why we don't have a wall of shame on this board.

[Brad]

I agree with everyone else. Have a conscience and pay what you owe. 5 months is ridiculous.

[Jackie]

No, Chris, you shouldn't keep your mouth shut. You founded this club and set some standards here that we all agreed to obide by. We need to be able to trust each other or the whole club will fail in the end.

(But you should shut up about Hawaii) GRRRRR..... I want to be there so bad!!!!:lmao:

[Mporter]

obide

Abide*
Sorry to steal the Grammar nazi throne from you Rob :D

[Jackie]

I stand KOrrrrrected!!!

[Pathrat]

I can agree with points made by every member who has replied to this thread. Interestingly enough, each post here has been made by someone I like and in some cases, have hung out with and run trails with. There is an element of trust in a group when you wheel, and the person who is refusing to live up to their agreement made with another member is not one I would trust. I understand everyone is broke at some point, but even agreeing to pay 20 bucks a month shows that you take your responsibilities seriously and that you are making up for the poor judgment demonstrated when commissioning work that you could not pay for. Never get a job done without the money in your pocket, ready to hand over.

[Rob]

I stand KOrrrrrected!!!

:lmao: Hey, Jackie, did you notice he improperly upper-cased grammar and lower-cased Nazi? (As a CSU alum [and married to a CSU double alum], I feel obligated to keep those CU guys in line.:))

[Neversummeriam]

I have to say everyone I have met on fr 4x4 has been great.
Super helpful and so nice. We need to get rid of the dead weight
On this site, why do people have to be buddy f**kers!! Sorry for
My language, but the money isn't the issue it's the lack of respect.
Pay your bills, or don't play Til you do!!
People like this make nice people not wanta help.
Don't disrespect your club!!

[Cr33p3r]

Pete and I went thru this same situation a couple years ago did some work for a member and he did not want to pay for what he asked us to build, shorted us on the funds and then had the nerve to threaten taking us to court, We made it public on here and the member was removed from the site for screwing us over and bashing us.

My thoughts are if you agree to pay a specific amount for work then be a grown man or a woman and take care of the debt and lesson learned for you is do not blow someone off and turn around buy crap and then boasting about it on the web! You only make yourself look like an ASS!!!!

Give them two more days and then reveal whom they are and if still not taken care delete them from the site and like stated earlier a lot of other sites will get the message about them too!

[Bronc_17113]

Pretty new to this board but when you make a deal its a deal and you should abide by it. I have been in the situation of not being able to pay at a particular moment b4 and it sucks being that guy but you have to man up and figure it out. I have also been on the reverse side of this on another board and still have not seen the items I loaned to them several years ago. I don't know the situation but I would say that after 5 months with no resolution this guy has had plenty of time to resolve the situation.

[Rick]

I don't know the situation but I would say that after 5 months with no resolution this guy has had plenty of time to resolve the situation.
Agree!!!!!! Man up and settle your debt so you can move forward and learn from this.

[CodeXJ]

I mean really 5 months??? Is it that hard to pay just a little. If you skip eating out once a week that's easily $5. $5 a week that's $20 a month, and after 5 months that atleast $100. I understand bills are hard and time gets rough, but I'm sure whoever did the work could appreciate SOME type of payment even if it isn't a huge ammount. In 5 months they could have easily paid $100! I don't know how much the debt is, but that's still a $100 more, and shows respect that you understand you owe someone money. The rule of thumb I live with is that I absolutely HATE payments. If I'm not buying a house or something I hate doing payments. I find estimates and work up the money that I need first and pay upfront with the work or object that I buy. I'm just saying the person may have bills and a hard time, but the person doing work may also need the money thus why they are using their own time and materials to complete tasks. The only time you don't need money is if something is offered to you for free, but if that person offering it says for free then your not ok accepting it for free. to me if your not paying for something that is meant to be paid your basically just stealing. I wouldn't want that person in this club because to me I view this club as a second family that helps each other out, and don't want to be screwed over. When I bought my coil spacers from Matt I paid him the money on my lunch when I went straight to the bank and handed him the money for the parts that I wanted.

[RockyMtnHigh]

The amount initially owed is sad, at $5 a week this could have been easily paid off in a couple months. The person who did the work in order to prompt a response and get it paid off quicker started adding late charges which in itself wasn't that bad either. Crap, half of it could have been paid off with what they spent in gas going to the Anniversary Run.

I am guessing this person is lurking and not logging in, which says a lot. Without giving anyone any indication they got the message and what they intend to do about it, at least the owed individual, I might just cut the week short and announce the person.

[ColoRaider]

I offer free services to make dbags pay up....

[SCRubicon]

Give the F'er the boot!!! Five months? Come on. I don't chisel **** out of people, screw people over for money or steal. If there's something I want or need but can't afford (or build my damn self) I make a decision on what I'm going to sell off to make the money. Or, gasp, I DON'T F'N BUY IT!!!! Can't pay off the debt owed to someone, but this person can afford the luxury of playing around in a 4x4. I think someone really needs to get their damn priorities straight...:mad:

[Rick]

The amount initially owed is sad, at $5 a week this could have been easily paid off in a couple months.
$40 bucks!!!!! Are you kidding me. What a F--KIN IDIOT!!!!!

[Brody]

The amount initially owed is sad, at $5 a week this could have been easily paid off in a couple months.

Agreed. It isn't even the amount of money, but more the lack principle and ethics behind the story that is the issue.

[Aaron]

It was Jesse (Jesse05LJ). I would not suggest that anyone on the forum do any business with him for obvious reasons.

I've gone ahead and deleted his account..

[Cr33p3r]

Thanks Aaron for ending this and to whom ever he owed the money to I hope you eventually get it from him!

[4runner freak]

Here is a picture of the worthless thief.
Dangit, he is/was military, too!
Well, Jesse, pay up on your bill, so we don't lose too much respect for our military.

Jesse Williams
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj66/4runnerFreak/Misc%20Pics%20Links/1D2aeQcc0AjXR62f2auLU2MnGd515p.jpg
It's not a tumor (http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/Jesse05LJ/)

and his Jeep
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj66/4runnerFreak/Misc%20Pics%20Links/163046_1617922861343_1634532433_1415566_7814697_n. jpg
Jeep Space Profile (http://jeepspace.jeepforum.com/jesse05LJ)

[Jackie]

Thanks Aaron. We don't need that kind of trouble here. I hope he grows up, mans up and pays up eventually.

[Rick]

Here is a picture of the worthless thief.
Had a feeling after reading in the forum!!!!!Marriage, Money and Morals, seems he's having trouble with all 3

[Squshiee1]

i knew who it was, he wasn't the most friendly 4 wheeler either.

[RockyMtnHigh]

we don't lose too much respect for our military.

This should have no reflection on anyone other than him, ESPECIALLY our military and it's veterans. There are pieces of sh!t in every walk of life! :thumb:

[Brody]

Thanks Danny for posting that up. Maybe other folks will see that and know not to do any business with him at all....or work on his Jeep.

Ditto on the military stuff. Some people don't get the concepts of integrity and honor.

And X2 on the Money, Marriage and Morals problems. Sounds like he should start running for a political office. He seems to have the ground work basics down....

[4runner freak]

so we don't lose too much respect for our military.




I for one will not lose respect for our military on this whole thing. This is one individual that needs to sit down and get his priorities straightened out. Hopefully he will and will get the money paid.

I will NOT lose any respect for our military at all, either. It just hurts more hearing crap like this, when I would have been VERY happy to fork in some loot to help out a soilder!
I just hope that he makes it right, quickly.

[Jackie]

He could have at least offered to work off the debt. I'm assuming he has a skill of some sort even it's it's just manual labor. Yard work, a simple home repair, whatever. At least it would have been something...

[skfnick]

Thank you!

[Brad]

I don't think I ever wheeled with him. Just as well apparently.

[Java]

That is a shame, I liked the Jeep and some of his posts were cool. Never met him, nothing personal, but if it was me that was owed I would already have filed a small claims suit. I've been down this road with customers, and if they don't have the money today they will have it in a year or two, or whatever, and when they apply for credit for anything, get married, divorced, apply for a job (these days they pull credit reports) you show up and they will be calling you trying to pay you ASAP. You can also attach their wages, look at the collection section of th elink below. Late fees and court costs are owed to you too, and you can file for open ended late fees, or late fees until a certain date, just specify that those are still going. That is EXACTLY what small claims court is for, it is not being a ******* or a hard ass, it's just not getting screwed and using the legal system as it was intended. In NY we have a saying that the only people who get **** are the people who take ****.
It'll also end up costing him a LOT more than he owes you, so there is a lesson in it too. :funrover:
Here's a link to the court's help page: http://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/Forms_List.cfm?Form_Type_ID=9

[Hotchef181818]

If I remember correctly, the military doesn't look kindly on soldiers with financial problems. Maybe a phone call or 2 is in order or better yet small claims court as mentioned, I'm sure that will pop up and cause some problems for him.

[TNT]

Just down right messed up!

[Stephen]

I think we need work up a Number 6 on 'em!

[mattzj98]

I think we need work up a Number 6 on 'em!

I know im an immigrant and all, with hardly any inglish but yes, you guessed it.. I DON'T GET YOUR REFERENCE AGAIN! hahaha

[Rob]

Hedley "That's Hedley" Lamar and Taggart from "Blazing Saddles," one of the all-time best movies.

[Stephen]

I know im an immigrant and all, with hardly any inglish but yes, you guessed it.. I DON'T GET YOUR REFERENCE AGAIN! hahaha


"Well, that's where we go a-ridin' into town, a-whompin' and a-whumpin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the women folks, of course."

[Stephen]

Hedley "That's Hedley" Lamar in "Blazing Saddles," one of the all-time best movies.

Yep! :thumb:

[Rob]

But what about the women folk, Stephen? :erm: Probably not suitable for the board.

[mattzj98]

lmao ok as long as they have that movie in my languages, ill watch it :P

[Stephen]

But what about the women folk, Stephen? :erm: Probably not suitable for the board.

haha I figured I'd leave that part out! :D

[Rick]

"Blazing Saddles,"
MATT, YOU GOTTA WATCH THIS!!!!!!!

[Rob]

as long as they have that movie in my languages, ill watch it :

Better to watch it in English. I fear it would lose a lot in any other language. :thumb:

[mattzj98]

i no shpeak inglish though!

haha I am now thinking back a few months, I think I might have seen the movie while taking shots every time a certain thing happened in the movie.. if that's the movie im thinking about.. was there a black guy as a main character?

[mattzj98]

Ok i have seen this movie! funny stuff!:thumb::thumb:

[Stephen]

UH OH! Rob is gonna get ya, Robyn!!!

[Brad]

That should be required viewing to be a citizen. If they don't laugh, no citizenship! :D

[mattzj98]

That should be required viewing to be a citizen. If they don't laugh, no citizenship! :D

thats funny, watched it right after passing my citizenship!