Leaf spring question

[95tacoma]

I purchased my Alcan springs going on three years now and they have been good springs up until recently. They have never had the most comfortable ride on the street, but they were tolerable until recently. Now they are extremely bouncy and ride horrible, I thought it was the shocks since it was pretty sudden, but I replaced the shocks (brand new bilstein 5125's) and tried two different mounting locations and the ride is still awful (the ride did improve over the worn shocks, but it is still bad).

On the highway if it is on concrete, the truck bounces so bad it’s hard to drive (you can feel its from the rear springs, the front rides great) It’s definitely not just the normal bounce associated with lift springs. When driving around town it shudders after bumps for a short period. It has just got to the point where it has become really irritating.

I have tried airing the tires down which doesn't make a difference. I tried loosening my shackles and bouncing it to see if maybe they were bound up, but still no luck. I have not done anything different to the truck to make a significant change other than moving the shock mounts around, but this didn't affect the ride before or after except that the new shocks have helped. I noticed that the springs are in a "w" shape as well. So I am wondering if they are just worn out and it’s time to replace them or is there anything else I could try?

The springs have a lot of wheeling time on them and I have only really loaded them down once. They were set up to my specs to handle the heavy rear bumper and my tire carrier so I couldn't imagine weight being the problem. Alcan told me that the springs could handle 2" negative arch so I set my bumps to allow exactly that....could this be the cause of the "w" shape?

If the springs are bad I plan on swapping in some 63" chevies and be done with it.

(Truck is a 95 tacoma v6 extra cab)

Thanks in advance for the help!

[ccbruin]

after my rear shocks snapped on my YJ, i just removed them and by golly was that thing bouncy! All my leaves all the way around were "w" shaped, and i did not have any noticeable bounce. I do not think it is the springs, my main thought it is the shocks but since you replaced them that is out of the question. Do you have an anti-wrap bar of any sort on the rear?

[Brody]

I personally am not a huge fan of Alcan springs, having had a couple of sets, the latest being on my black Yota heap. Although I didn't experience the problems that you describe, I managed to break every single spring on that truck when the Alcans were on it. Alcan, of course, didn't warranty anything. After I got tired of replacing this and that broken leaf, 3 times the main leaf, I finally said screw it....and screw the high dollar Alcans.

I am currently running total junkyarded springs: 1984 pickup rears reversed in the front with a Waggy leaf or two, and 63" Chevy 4 leafs in the rear with the overloads cut off about 4" behind the rear spring perch. Both springs work better than the $500-600 set Alcans . The rear Chevys flex better than you can imagine and the ride quality is sweet.

I have $30 in the front and about $100 in the back. I made my rear mounts fore and aft, but many companies sell really nicely priced kits to do this popular swap. I highly recommend that you say good bye to Alcan, rustle up some 90s 1/2 ton Chevy springs from a yard ($15 each) and get yourself some cheap ride quality.

If you decide to go this route, PM me and I will talk to you a bit more about it. The information I posted in the Yota Make and Model section is all roughly the same, but there are some minor things to look for.

This link, page #3. Posts do not seem to be numbered anymore for some reason, but page 3, it is. About 1/2 way down:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?8745-TOYOYA-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS/page3

As far as the shudder goes, it could be that the 'W' shape of the springs is causing some odd movement. It could also mean that the spring center pin is either sheared, bent or almost nonexistent, causing some weird shifting back and forth.

If you want to drop big bucks into springs, look into the Deaver ones...

[4Runninfun]

As far as the shudder goes, it could be that the 'W' shape of the springs is causing some odd movement. It could also mean that the spring center pin is either sheared, bent or almost nonexistent, causing some weird shifting back and forth.

I think Pete has the most logical answer here. I would pull everything apart back there, springs, shackles, etc. and look for any damage. If you do find damage I wouldn't hesitate to go with the 63" chevy swap. everything I have heard about the swap says it's worth doing.

[ccbruin]

If you are having problems, thats a good reason to upgrade! I had some bounce when i didnt have an antiwrap as when i accelerated the springs would load up and i would get some shudder and any bump i hit the springs would unload.

[RidgeRunner]

I think Pete has the most logical answer here. I would pull everything apart back there, springs, shackles, etc. and look for any damage. If you do find damage I wouldn't hesitate to go with the 63" chevy swap. everything I have heard about the swap says it's worth doing.

I'd start here too. If you do end up getting new springs, I'd go with the 63" Chevys. I have them on the rear of my 4Runner (3 leaf with the overload cut for anti-wrap) and they ride amazingly well for junk yard springs. You can get a spring swap kit here: http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/63SWP.html and probably do the whole thing for less than $200.

[Patrolman]

Personally, I would still lean towards a shock issue. The job of the shock is to minimize bounce/rebound. The springs by nature should have bounce in them. If you want, feel free to stop by sometime and we can take it for a ride down the concrete on Santa Fe to get an idea.

[Robert B]

depending how stiff the springs are the "w" might cause that from what i know.....my front has a slight W but i have 5 pretty darn soft springs......when you loosened the shackles did you take to bolt and bushings out???? to clear it all of rust and debris or just loosed the nut ????and i agree with junkyard springs 63" are easy to find in the yard i go to

[95tacoma]

I actually replaced my center pins because these springs keep bending them, this is the second time I have had to do it. As far as the shackles go I just loosened the nuts on the shackles, I fiqured this would be good enough since they are greasable. The problem seemed to start after the China Wall trip which I replaced the center pin shortly after the run (bent in almost an "s" shape), do you guys think this could have caused it? I am not running an antiwrap either. Tomorrow after work I will pull the shocks and see what happens, and if no difference I can pull the springs out this weekend as this is my DD and check for damage. Jeff, If this doesn't do it and you wouldn't mind riding along to see if we could figure it out that would be great!

Thanks everybody for the help!

[95tacoma]

Took the shocks off today and the ride was amazing compared to with the shocks on. There is still the shudder but If it is definitely tolerable. I have the bilstein 5100 series shocks on the front and it rides great, but with the 5125's on the back it seems to amplify every bump in the road and exaggerates the shudder. Is this normal for these shocks when they are brand new?

[Brody]

Since the shocks are off, how hard are they to compress and how fast do they release?

Can't answer your question very well as the only set of Bilsteins I ever had leaked like a sieve before I formed any driving opinions of them....

Here are a couple of links discussing the 5100vs the 5125:

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1st-gen-tacomas/94762-5100-vs-5125-bilsteins.html

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1st-gen-tacomas/125385-bilstein-5100s-5125s-dakar-leafs.html

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40268

http://www.customtacos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135254

There is more stuff all over the internet on the 5100 and 5125. Hopefully somewhere in one of these links I posted someone who actually knows what they are talking about answers your question...Briefly glancing at the posts, seems people think that the 5100 and 5125 shocks only come in one size........ Seems this is a hot topic if you own a Taco.

Me, I measure the droop and the compression, and pick a shock that fits. Seems to have worked very well for over 40+ years of owning lifted and used 4xs....

[95tacoma]

Thanks for the links Brody. I think I may have figured out the problem. It seems my upper mount is back farther than the lower mount, causing my shocks to not be parrallel with the axle. My first lower shock mounts stuck out farther and the mounts now do not. When I put the shocks back in, I noticed they are bound up. So if I move my upper mount forward this will get rid of the bind. I mounted them like this / \ but when looking at them from the side of the truck they have a slight angle like this / with the existing upper mount.

I tried spacing the top of the shocks in to get the them more parallel to the axle (looking at them from the side) and it seemed to help the ride.

Thanks everybody for the help! :thumb:

[Patrolman]

Some trucks actually have the shocks on different sides (front/rear) of the axle. Ford did this, and I think Chevy. I believe Toyota had all their shocks behind the axle and at the same angle.

[95tacoma]

Thanks everybody for the help! I moved the upper mounts forward to make them more parallel with the axle and this made the ride so much better. I am so glad the springs weren't the cause. :D

I really appreciate everyones input! Without it I would still be lost! :thumb:

[95tacoma]

So moving the shocks only helped temporarily, as time went on the springs kept getting worse and worse. I went down to Yoda Jims and found a set of leaf springs out of a 93 4x4 extra cab pickup. I had to add an additional leaf spring, which was out of a set of 5" lift procomps that my dad and I have stolen leafs from. The leaf I took was the second longest leaf and installed it as the third leaf down on my new pack. This got me about 2" of lift. To level the truck out I bought a set of 5.5" long shackles from toytec which gave me about 3" of lift overall.

The truck rides amazing, there is no more shudder and I can't feel every bump in the road now!

Thanks everybody for the help! :thumb:

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x400/95tacoma1/20120602122059.jpg

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x400/95tacoma1/20120602122138.jpg

[Brody]

Happy to help out as I am sure everyone else was who replied!

I just did a 2004 Taco lift and had to get into the rear springs. Then I did my Tundra ARB axle swap out on mine (the axle that usually rides under the heap, but had been on vacation due to leaking ARB O Rings) and had to get into the springs a bit. Doncha just love 'em?

Glad to hear that stuff got sorted out. The overall geometry looks simple at first, but there is a lot of junk going on with the leaf set up.

[95tacoma]

Happy to help out as I am sure everyone else was who replied!

I just did a 2004 Taco lift and had to get into the rear springs. Then I did my Tundra ARB axle swap out on mine (the axle that usually rides under the heap, but had been on vacation due to leaking ARB O Rings) and had to get into the springs a bit. Doncha just love 'em?

Glad to hear that stuff got sorted out. The overall geometry looks simple at first, but there is a lot of junk going on with the leaf set up.

Right! The tire carrier and rear bumper is heavy so I had to move my front hangers forward to get my shackle angle right. That tacoma you did turned out great by the way, good luck with the arb!:thumb:

[Brody]

Done deal with the ARB. Working fine again or it wouldn't have gone back under the heap. Bench tested it first, of course, and glad that I didn't have to pay anyone for all the grunt work. Probably would have been about $400-500 worth of labor to replace $7.00 worth of O rings. Much like replacing a rear main seal....

Your rig looks great, BTW!

[Patrolman]

Glad it worked out. Sorry it took so long to figure out. I would be curious to know what the actual issue was with the other leafs. As long as it is fixed, I suppose that is what matters most.

[95tacoma]

Done deal with the ARB. Working fine again or it wouldn't have gone back under the heap. Bench tested it first, of course, and glad that I didn't have to pay anyone for all the grunt work. Probably would have been about $400-500 worth of labor to replace $7.00 worth of O rings. Much like replacing a rear main seal....

Your rig looks great, BTW!

Thank you! Your mountian goat as others have called it is my inspiration!:thumb:

[95tacoma]

Glad it worked out. Sorry it took so long to figure out. I would be curious to know what the actual issue was with the other leafs. As long as it is fixed, I suppose that is what matters most.

I'm not too sure, I have a main from those 5" lift procomps so I might cut the ends off and put them in second down on the alcans and test them out on the 81.