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Jim
May 6th, 2012, 02:20 PM
Moving from road based motorcycle touring to off-road Jeep trail riding presented a bit of a transition for me to get used to. My day-long or weekend bike trips where a whim of my choice. I typically rode alone, left when I wished, chose roads that I wished and made decisions at intersections. That freedom and independence of travel are relished.

Transitioning to off-road trail riding, it was brought to my attention that it was highly recommended to “change my solo way of life”. I should join a group, meet at a pre-set location, at a pre-set time, to ride on a pre-set trail. The primary reason for the group mentality was that if something should happen at that remote off-road location, there would be others at hand to assist.

Yesterday, my assist others and “be independent” role flipped to the one being assisted and dependent upon others.

On the downhill exit from Ironclads, the Jeep’s motor went soft, like it was running out of fuel. It limped along for 40 feet but gas pedal changes did not result in changed motor operation. Then it stopped and would not re-start. A quick radio call that I was not able to move stopped the front of the group while I took stock of the situation.

The motor would crank over as it should but it would not fire up. Gas pedal position made no difference. In the process I removed the gas cap (which was recently changed when the fuel filler lines were replaced so that fuel would not spill when full) – no change. A spark-present test for the #1 cyl was performed – spark was present. If there’s spark, it’s likely that fuel delivery was the issue [motor is multi-port fuel injected]. This is in line with how the motor died – slowly going dead (possible diminishing fuel delivery) vs. an electrical issue which is often ON/OFF with no in-between.

While we were on the downhill to exit Ironclads, Frank, directly ahead, strapped me through areas I could not coast through. He pulled me to the Bunce School entrance at Hwy 7, a possible tow truck location.

Once there, the group gathered around to see if we could get it running. Ray had some fuel hose which allowed me to bypass the external fuel filter – no change. Frank listened to the fuel pump at the tank and was able to hear it running - sometimes. I gave him a rock to whack the tank as I turned the key on – no change. At times the motor would run but not well enough to get anywhere.

Going through my mind were the myriad of options considered to get resolution to the issue. Call family near Denver; call someone near home to get me home? The other issue is getting the Jeep out of the hills to be worked on. I’d prefer to get it home and tend the issue myself, but at this point, I’d gladly settle for a tow truck to a shop. For any of those, I’d still need to get into cell phone range… 15 miles away. All of those “what next” thoughts came to an immediate halt when Barb looked over to me and said “We’ll make sure you make it home”.

That simple comment became resolution. The unknown, which needed to be resolved was now off the mental plate – more help was at hand.

From that point, the decision to leave the Jeep where it was and stay with the group on the next trail section was easily made. I offloaded gear to Rob’s FJ and jumped in with Max. Off to Miller Rock for side spur exploring we went.

Trails explored, gear was relocated to Chris & Barb’s truck and we headed back to the Jeep. With luck it might run. While it did start, un-willingly, and run, oddly – it would not run well enough to move itself. They towed me up and over the ridge and I was able to coast down the St. Vrain canyon at 20-50mph to about 3 miles from Lyons. From there they towed me to a nice parking spot in town.

Cell phone now in range, calls to a towing service arranged the next step for the Jeep. We left it safely sit and they delivered me and the trail gear to home. While their conversation was well enjoyed, I have firm impression of Barb’s first “we’ll get you home” comment and the smooth, quick ride of their truck vs. me walking the shoulder for a few hours.

While I enjoyed those wanderlust solo trips on the motorcycle, I now look at the “pre-set” group ride differently. Our group, coordinated via our web site, has firm resolve from me. While I would graciously accept assistance again, I do hope to be on the giving side of the handshake more often.

Sincerely,
Jim

ps: I’ll let you know what the cause of the issue is, hopefully later this week.

Brad
May 6th, 2012, 02:50 PM
Exactly the reason I joined in the first place. Glad all turned out well Jim. Having wheeled with you I know being humble is your style. Accepting help is just as difficult for me but I can count a few people here who saved me. I believe in Karma, it will come around when you need it!

Chris
May 6th, 2012, 02:53 PM
A little side note Jim, the timing was perfect because about 15 minutes after getting home we had quarter sized hail pounding our place. It would have sucked to have the truck getting dimpled if we were much later.

Java
May 6th, 2012, 02:59 PM
That is great!!! Good job Chris & Barb!!! :thumb: I also have to say I really enjoyed reading that, well written Jim! I hope your problem is small and cheap.


:frontrange4x4:

MelloYello
May 6th, 2012, 03:25 PM
Glad you made it home Jim.
X2 on FR is the best.

4Runninfun
May 6th, 2012, 03:48 PM
Sorry you had trouble with your rig, but glad that you weren't stranded!

Quite frankly I wouldn't be a part of a club/group/run where anyone thought it was ok to leave people behind.

ctracy5
May 6th, 2012, 04:34 PM
hope you can get the jeep back up and running soon

Heather
May 6th, 2012, 04:37 PM
I hope your problem is small and cheap.
x2

We had similar experiences with this club, with Chris's Frank, for our first two or three runs. As it unfortunately turned out, that thing wouldn't stay running to save our lives. We have multiple photos of a couple different runs with various club members on and around it, trying (successfully) to figure out the issue. Fixes. Winches. Advise for total noobs. Patience. And the biggest memory - Todd (Wyota) once again underneath, when the u-joint/drive shaft exploded along the highway out of Lyons on the way home a run.

Besides all that, the so easily shared amazing knowledge...such incredible teachers here. I've got nothing to compare this club to, as it's my first membership of its type - but the awesome type of people here make it so I don't feel any need to look anywhere else.

Glad you made it home okay, and beat the hail. Eager to hear what the fix is. Hope you're back out on the trails soon.

:frontrange4x4:

Brody
May 6th, 2012, 05:16 PM
A very nice thank you write up and the thoughts couldn't have been expressed better! Glad that you got home OK and I hope that the Jeep issues are not major.

Check out the Jeep Tech section for a quick way to check the crankshaft positioning sensor. If it isn't the fuel pump, this could very well be the culprit. Has similar experiences with the Grand Cherokee (same engine) and first thought was the fuel pump as it was doing the same thing. Turns out it was the CPS...

mattzj98
May 6th, 2012, 09:03 PM
Good write up Jim! Glad you got the help needed! Let us know what the problem is / was.. hopefully nothing too crazy

Popsgarage
May 6th, 2012, 09:10 PM
Chris, you have some great kids in this club.:thumb::thumb::thumb:

Max
May 6th, 2012, 11:39 PM
Keep us updated about the solution. I'm curious what the problem actually is.

WDoG
May 7th, 2012, 12:37 AM
What a great read! This is why I joined the community here. The friendship and the help. I'll get out to a run as soon as I can. Glad to see everyome pitched in to someone in need!

What ended up being the problem?

glacierpaul
May 7th, 2012, 06:23 AM
......What ended up being the problem?

Being a Jeep, Just Expect Every Problem.;)

Jim
May 7th, 2012, 09:29 AM
What ended up being the problem?

Don't yet know. It's sitting in the back lot at Longmont Chrysler. I went down there Sunday with the soft top to see if I could put it on (yes) so it wouldn't get rained in. I'll be calling them shortly to arrange service.

WDoG
May 7th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Good thinking. I'll keep an eye on the thread.

I had a Suzuki Sidekick 4dr that had fuel delivery problems. Everything checked out with the pump and everything. It ended up being a bad ECU. Replaced it. Then it happened again. But this time I knew what it was. ECU.

With as many jeeps around I bet you could find a doner ECU to plug in and test :-)

Funrover
May 7th, 2012, 11:48 AM
Bummer to have a mechanical issue, but always great to know others will help!

Bunyon & Babe
May 7th, 2012, 12:47 PM
:frontrange4x4:
This is a great group ! We hope its a cheap , quick fix . Good luck , hope you are up and running very soon .

Hypoid
May 7th, 2012, 07:30 PM
“We’ll make sure you make it home”...

That simple comment became resolution.Amen!

Brody
May 8th, 2012, 06:49 AM
Hey Jim

Did you look at the Jeep Make and Model links for the Jeep starting problem issues? Two that come to mind right off hand: the ECM screws that are too long that short out randomly that Jeep for some reason has never fixed (all you need to do is to install shorter screws or cut the existing ones down 1/16" or so....real brain drain for Jeep engineers, obviously, since this has been a recurring issue for years and years. You would figure that some brain child financial Jeep wizard would sort out the fact that they could save $.025 on each ECM screw. Or maybe thay make too much money when rigs come into their shops to bother....) or the CPS.

JEEP INFORMATION AND LINKS - Page 4 (http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?2755-JEEP-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS/page4)

Post #3

Good luck with this at any rate. I would be interested to hear what the issue turns out to be. So would Mike, I am sure.

Jim
May 8th, 2012, 09:45 AM
Did you look at the Jeep Make and Model links for the Jeep starting problem issues?

At this point, not yet. The reason is that it's at Longmont Chrysler and they're diagnosing it ($99). Should they throw up their hands and say, please take this thing off of our lot, then certainly. They started work on it, I think, yesterday morning - no call back from them as yet as to a diag - Hmmm...

Thanks for kicking info that might help my way.

When I know more, I'll post it!

Tom
May 8th, 2012, 10:00 AM
I thought half the fun of wheeling was being stuck way back in and having to hike out for help.

(At least I thought that when I was 17 before I was stuck 1/2 up pearl pass in a snow bank with no shovel and had to walk out to Crested Butte to borrow one.)
OBTW that was the last time I thought that.

Jim
May 14th, 2012, 09:22 PM
Conclusion

The Jeep came back to my place this afternoon. So, now, I'll call it done.

Verdict: fuel pump

My thanks to the group on that ride for kind tolerance to the upset in plans (we likely would have taken in at least one additional Miller Rock spur)...
My thanks to Frank for pulling me out of Ironclads...
My thanks to Ray for the fuel filter bypass line...
My thanks to Rob for hauling my trail gear through Miller Rock...
My thanks to Max (& Ray!) for letting me ride along with them on Miller Rock...
My thanks to Chris & Barb for getting the Jeep back to Lyons and Me with trail gear back to home...

While I appreciate everyone's help equally, I must say, Chris and Barb went well out of their way, happily, in their time and travel of their day for me. I appreciate the actions and now carry a large "now you have to carry this help another token around".

Warm Regards,
Jim

Chris
May 14th, 2012, 11:00 PM
:frontrange4x4:

Everybody participated in helping you out Jim, Barb & I just happen to have more free time than most and offered early on. There's no doubt in my mind that someone else would have stepped up to get you home if we weren't able to do it ourselves.

In the 4+ years of existence nobody has ever been left to fend for themselves when something like this happens.

SpyderJeep
May 15th, 2012, 12:23 AM
A great read, thanks and I agree on the overall kind people in this club. Glad to be connected with this club.

Brody
May 15th, 2012, 05:53 AM
I appreciate the actions and now carry a large "now you have to carry this help another token around".

Trail karma....

Flyer
May 15th, 2012, 09:37 PM
Good read. Let us know what the Jeep verdict is. I hope it is not too expensive a fix.

Rick
May 15th, 2012, 10:11 PM
Verdict: fuel pump

Let us know what the Jeep verdict isand there ya have it:D

Flyer
May 15th, 2012, 10:19 PM
Nice! Could have been much worse, right? :)

Rick
May 15th, 2012, 10:21 PM
always!!!!!

Jackie
May 16th, 2012, 08:41 PM
Jim - YOU are a good man and a great member of this forum. What many here do NOT know is the story of a kid on the Jeep Forum who's dad posted up all the way from Florida that his kid had broken down and needed help in Ft. Collins and YOU went and helped him. You didn't know this kid - but did it anyways.

Like Pete said... "Trail Karma".:thumb:

Chris
May 16th, 2012, 08:47 PM
Ah yes, thanks for sharing that tidbit Jackie. :thumb:

Jim
May 17th, 2012, 12:48 AM
I wonder what happened with that Jeep. I helped get it back to the kid's apartment lot but never heard from there. I was curious as to where the coolant leak was coming from (it was dark, I didn't dig too deep).

Since you bring it up, here's the topic of karma and what comes around goes around...

Between moving from Illinois to here in Colorado I took a couple years off, stayed with family and did some traveling. One trip was a "Four Corners of the Lower 48, Western Canada & Alaska (http://www.jimwilliamson.net/motorcycle/2005-09-us-n-canada/index.html)" motorcycle trip. Four months and 23,500 miles of my solo wanderlust. About four days from the end of the trip the final drive on the bike failed. Not more than five minutes from stopping on the shoulder a black pickup pulls up. Adam gets out and takes a look at the issue. Ultimately, he goes way out of his way to get me rolling again. He was THE EXACT RIGHT PERSON I wanted to help me out. You might get a kick out of the story, with photos, here (http://www.jimwilliamson.net/motorcycle/2005-09-us-n-canada/12-30/index.html).

Aside from his helpful care, I found him special for a couple reasons. First, he said he might have a final drive "at home". Back at his house, he had 3 or 4 bikes with final drives that were close, but not correct. He would have pulled a drive from one of his running bikes to get me rolling. Second, while calling around for a used parts yard he rattled off the manufacturer's model name for my bike (VF1100c) where I had never told him what it was. I asked how he knew that odd stat and he said he worked at a Honda parts counter as a kid when that bike was a new item.

Adam will stand out in my mind for quite some time. He passed a large favor to me that day. I'll work to keep the cycle flowing!

In closing, here's a flip side, for kicks...

I helped a guy in a pickup pulling a camper out near Ted's place. Saturday or Sunday late morning, I was out for a drive. In the end, I went back into town for an accelerator cable for him (end broke near the engine end). A sheriff was there when I returned with the cable. Cable installed the guy drove off. As I was putting tools / something into the back of the car the policeman stayed behind me. I thought it odd he didn't drive off (had ample space to pull out). I shut the tailgate and he gets out of his car and walks up to me, a piece of paper in one hand. I'm scratching my head as to what could be going on. He starts with statement that goes something like this (I don't fully recall as you'll see why). "I'm going to give you this citation..." When I heard citation my mind froze and time went into slow motion as my mind flew through Why am I getting a ticket? Are my plates out of date? Did I park too close to the roadway? Did I do something illegal in helping someone? and my mind came back to reality when he then said something like "Good Citizen". It was a "Thanks for Helping" business card from the department with a small badge tacked onto it. A kind gesture but they way it was initially presented, my mind flew in the opposite direction for a second. :lmao:

OK, I'll stop typing. Let's find some scenic trails!