Bill Moore Lake

[Pathrat]

I think I would like to add the loop off of Bill Moore. I have added that to the run.

Front Range 4x4 Forums (http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2012-7-1&e=468&c=1)

[SCRubicon]

I'd be down for a Sunday run. Denver has me working Saturdays.

[Pathrat]

Looking forward to wheeling with you again SCRubicon. You know the way? :D me and correct directions are only acquaintances.

[xaza]

Not sure what the empire loop is, Mill Creek? The Hilton on Mill Creek is pretty cool. :thumb:

[Beefy]

Not sure what the empire loop is, Mill Creek? The Hilton on Mill Creek is pretty cool. :thumb:

Empire Loop is Red Elephant Hill, Mill Creek and Bill Moore Lake. :)

[Chris]

No "probably" option so I'm a "maybe" :thumb:

[otisdog]

Sunday is not usually good for me but I'll try to make it. I know the Mill Creek Loop.
Jim

[Backcountryislife]

I'm a 99%. I'd just wait for you guys in Empire, no point in going down the hill first. I know the place pretty well, if navigational assistance is needed... happy to help!

[Java]

Looks like I have the day free, just changed from Maybe to Yes. This is going to be AWESOME!!!!! :thumb:

[Chris]

Of Saturday at WaterWorld with the clan doesn't kill me I'll be there so I'm leaving mine as maybe.

[Pathrat]

I'm a 99%. I'd just wait for you guys in Empire, no point in going down the hill first. I know the place pretty well, if navigational assistance is needed... happy to help!

That would be great! My sense of direction is like Rob's, only worse.

[Pathrat]

No "probably" option so I'm a "maybe" :thumb:

Hope you go, it has been a while since we were on the same trail.

[Backcountryislife]

That would be great! My sense of direction is like Rob's, only worse.

Yeah well... as the resident "local" I drove a 7 vehicle caravan down an obvious dead end at Barbour Forks... so maybe I'm not the BEST option out there :D

[Rob]

My sense of direction is like Rob's

:frown:

[Pathrat]

I drove a 7 vehicle caravan down an obvious dead end at Barbour Forks... so maybe I'm not the BEST option out there :D

I did that too!!!

[Pathrat]

:frown:

I know, I am showing you no love. But I do hope you come with us Sunday as I really enjoy wheeling with you! ;)

[Pathrat]

I will have three passengers, and wheeling from the back of an FJ is not the best experience one could have. If anyone has any free front seats, I would appreciate their participation in playing Musical Rigs.

[Pathrat]

So I have only run Bill Moore proper, not the loop with Mill Creek or Red Elephant. I have done some looking on traildamage trying to figure out the route. Do we go to Bill Moore then down Mill Creek and Red Elephant or do you catch the Mill Creek loop at the tail end of RE and go around then back to the Bill Moore trail? I am reading that RE is one way. What is the route protocol, if there is one?
Thanks to whomever answers my ignorant question.

[Backcountryislife]

Go up N empire, go past conquerer, attain top of ridge, then follow on main trail, avoiding the spur to the right (dead end) I think the main is 183.1, you can take either of the next forks, both will take you to the top, then upon hitting the meadowy area (what I'm calling "top", it's not but it feels like it), you stay to the right, which will lead you to the junction of Red Elephant & Mill creek loop, you stay left & follow mill creek loop, hitting the Empire Hilton (.5 stars, reserve on hotels.com...) then continuing on until you come back to 183.1, which you take to the right, and will lead you to the lake.

[otisdog]

You start up Bill Moore then you can cut off and do Mill Creek first or you can do all of BML and catch Mill Creek on the way back out. There's two ways to access Mill Creek from the BML trail.
I've always ran Mill Creek counter- clockwise, starting at the end closest to the top of Red Elephant
I'm going to try and make this run - will know by Friday night.
Red Elephant should always be run from the bottom up. There is a long steep rugged stretch that would be a nightmare and very dangerous if two groups met coming opposite ways... But running Mill Creek does not get you onto Red Elephant so that part is good.
Jim

[otisdog]

Here you go- off of Trail Damage.
There is another road that cuts off of BML a ways before and also joins the RE Mill Creek road.
Mill Creek is purple.
RE starts at Downieville near Where Spring Creek starts. RE is not a good starter trail. It's pretty rough so I think missing it is a good idea for this trip.
BML starts at Empire.
Jim

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/otisdog4/BMLRE.jpg

[Biojeepr]

This looks like a fun run. How long do you think it will take to complete, and what time are you starting? Sorry if I missed it on the RSVP page.

[Biojeepr]

, and what time are you starting? Sorry if I missed it on the RSVP page.
Yep, found it :rolleyes:

[Pathrat]

Thank you Otisdog. The traildamage topo map is the one I was looking at, comparing it to a satellite view. I appreciate the additional route clarification.

[Pathrat]

I see there are a lot of maybe's and Backcountryislife, weren't you going to meet us in Empire? It seems that I should leave my number so we don't wait for people who are not going or leave anyone behind. Text is good. :)

seven 2 0 two two 0 nine two eight three

[Chris]

Looks like I have the day free, just changed from Maybe to Yes. This is going to be AWESOME!!!!! :thumb:

Hey Paul, you're still maybe on the RSVP. I do plan to be there but until I can say 100% I'm leaving it as maybe.

[Java]

Had to go back to maybe, if I have another work stupidity come up then I don't want you guys expecting me. So don't, but if I can I'll be there. :thumb:

[Rob]

I see there are a lot of maybe's

I'll almost surely be there, unless I injure myself Saturday working on my latest landscaping project.

[Chris]

Barb's in so marking is "yes" :thumb:

[Pathrat]

Cool! I get to see my old guy wheeling buddies!!! :D

[Chris]

Cool! I get to see my old guy wheeling buddies!!! :D

Only if we can drag ourselves out of bed in the morning! :brody:

[otisdog]

I changed to yes, I believe I can make it.
Jim

[Biojeepr]

I'll be there as well, along with my wife Jess. Looking forward to getting out and meeting some more folks from FR4x4! :thumb:

[Brad]

Got everything done! I will be there! :thumb:

[Pathrat]

It looks like we have quite a few rigs coming; nine yes and two additional maybe's. I think it would be a good idea to consider staggering the run with five going at a time. I know Bill Moore is not that narrow, but still, that is a long caravan. Thoughts?

[Brad]

Personally I really dont need spots on bill moore, not sure on mill creek or red elephant. Spots are what slow us all down.

[Biojeepr]

I think it would be a good idea to consider staggering the run with five going at a time.
I think this is a great idea. 10 on the trail in a caravan is too many. So stagger by time? Perhaps some could divert and take an indirect route or something. Do the Mill Creek loop first or something...

[Pathrat]

True Brad, spotting does slow us down. So does picture taking and socializing, which are staples of Front Range runs. I am in no hurry to blaze through, I might need some spots (I have never done the Mill Creek loop) and I will be letting my friend try his hand at driving. I could see me slowing us down.

We can all discuss in the parking lot tomorrow, but I am thinking maybe staggering start times by 30 minutes.

[Brad]

Nor am I Stephanie, just pointing out the obvious. Everything I have read suggests going up red elephant not coming from the bill Moore side. Is this the plan?

[Pathrat]

I did not plan on coming up Red Elephant, but rather catching the Mill Creek loop mid-way up Bill Moore.

[Rob]

Then coming back down Bill Moore.

[Brad]

Ahh. So no red elephant?

[Pathrat]

Nope, not Red Elephant. Rob correctly finished my sentence.

[Kory]

If there is any interest in some of us running up red elephant maybe that would be a good way to stagger? Just a thought.

[Brad]

That's what I was thinking Kory.

[Biojeepr]

If there is any interest in some of us running up red elephant maybe that would be a good way to stagger?

I wouldn't mind doing that. I was thinking the same thing. Staggering.

[Kory]

Well we can chat about it at the parking lot. Im down to do red elephant but I wouldn't be the best choice as a leader. I've ran it once but I'm the type that needs to run a trail a few times to feel comfortable leading.

[SCRubicon]

I wouldn't mind doing that. I was thinking the same thing. Staggering.

If I don't hang this up and get to bed I'll be staggering around tomorrow. :lmao:

[Java]

I'm totally hoping to make it up there but DONT WAIT FOR ME if I'm late I'll just burn up the trail and find you guys, or I'll go to the Red Elephant trailhead first. Off to work now...

[otisdog]

If we do split into groups I need to be in the first one. Have an early day tomorrow. Plus I can lead if nobody knows the route. I'm just as good at getting lost as Rob or anybody else !!
Jim

[Brody]

Have fun today!

[Backcountryislife]

Well we can chat about it at the parking lot. Im down to do red elephant but I wouldn't be the best choice as a leader. I've ran it once but I'm the type that needs to run a trail a few times to feel comfortable leading.

It's pretty simply Kory, we just go up, the hit a right at mill creek loop.

I'm down for RE (even less driving for me!), I'll call pathrat at 9.

[Backcountryislife]

Personally I really dont need spots on bill moore, not sure on mill creek or red elephant. Spots are what slow us all down.

I've never spotted anything on BM or the loop, red elephant though, if we get a big crew, could get pretty slow, the one main obstacle is a bit rough!

[Pathrat]

Sounds like we have a tentative plan to meet at Idaho Springs, get a first group going up Elephant Hill and a second group going up Bill Moore? OR an early group and late group. Otisdog, I think it would be great if you want to take the early/Elephant hill group, as you know the route. I would appreciate that.

[Brad]

I've never spotted anything on BM or the loop, red elephant though, if we get a big crew, could get pretty slow, the one main obstacle is a bit rough!
You weren't kidding! :thumb: