Wobble help

[xaza]

As many of you know I have been fighting a wobble issue for months now. I have had the alignment done multiple times, replaced steering, track bar, track bar mounting bracket, shocks and had wheels all balanced and changed wheels and tires. I must be overlooking something and was hoping I could get a new set of eyes on things. Is there anyone in my area who would be willing to look at this for me this weekend?

[Fordguy77]

I know you've be going though you entire system, but heres a pretty good article that may have something you have been over looking.
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/how-to-fix-your-own-death-wobble/

A few things that come to mind from friends experiences, are
Tie Rod Ends being worn out, as well as Ball joints.

[Hypoid]

If you feel like driving this far, I can give it a once over.

[Jim]

Do the tires have any feathering or cupping / unusual wear?

[RidgeRunner]

Some more info on your rig might help. How much lift? Adjustable upper or lower control arms? Have you checked your caster angle? I had a similar problem with my XJ and correcting the caster fixed it.

[xaza]

3.5 inch lift, 2 inch spacers. Adjustable upper and lower control arms. G2 Dana 44s front and rear. YJ front axle with cam bolts. Rusty's steering. Changed out pitman arm today. Helped a bit, still a little off. Angles look good. Weather providing will tinker with caster again. Took some pics, was already dark so not the greatest.

[Robert B]

it could be the angle of the axle it self causeing the problem ....... as in the angle between the two ball joints have changed and might cause the problem.....my neighbor had a little lift added and then developed steering that would wander and wobble some......his is leaf spring so he got some shims to change the angle of the ball joints back and it steers great now.........since yours id coils you might be able to just adjust the arms and modify that ....see if it helps at all .........and it most likely will require you to extend the lower arms and shorten the upper arms judging by the pic of the pumpkin

[xaza]

Do the tires have any feathering or cupping / unusual wear?
Not too bad. My tires have very low miles, only 2/32 tread worn. We have swapped tires and wheels from brothers truck in checking that though. Mike I might take you up on that, too cold to work on my concrete slab today. Will see how tomorrow goes, are you free next weekend? My goal is to have this drive able for anniversary run.

[RidgeRunner]

as in the angle between the two ball joints

That's caster angle. :thumb: I believe that stock is -5 deg. If you have more (as in more negative) it can cause DW. Less and you lose the "return to center" feel and it can cause wandering.

Have you had someone rock the steering wheel back and forth while you look for movement in the steering and suspension components?

[Jackie]

Cliff, you might find even more suggestions on www.jeepforum.com if you haven't already checked it out. There is a lot written there about the wobble.

[xaza]

That's caster angle. :thumb: I believe that stock is -5 deg. If you have more (as in more negative) it can cause DW. Less and you lose the "return to center" feel and it can cause wandering.

Have you had someone rock the steering wheel back and forth while you look for movement in the steering and suspension components?

Yeah, no movement. Have replaced track bar and track bar mount in the process of things and have since replaced bushings in track bar less than a month after installing. Also replaced all tie rod ends since installing steering....same time as track bar bushings.

[Hypoid]

Changed out pitman arm today. Helped a bit, still a little off.What was wrong with the pitman arm?

I don't know what I am doing next weekeknd. If I can't find an Ah-Ha!, I suspect your problems might be fixed on the alignment rack. Of course, that takes a good tech as well.

I think you have spent more than enough to be rid of this problem. :mad:

[Popsgarage]

Has the steering box ever been replaced and is there any lag between input from the steering shaft and the sector shaft. One way to check is to remove the tie rod from the pitman arm and try to move the arm back and forth with the steering wheel locked. Steering box could be worn. If it does move that could be part of the problem. What brand of tracbar and steering are you running?

[xaza]

Steering box was replaced when I put in the drop pitman arm. Pulled out of Grand Cherokee. Will check steering gearbox again though. Track bar is Rubicon Express and also has the HD track bar bracket. Steering is Rusty's.

[Popsgarage]

Not to big a fan of Rustys, but know several people who run their stuff with no problems. Any frame flex around the steering box.

[Hypoid]

Any frame flex around the steering box.That is where my thoughts are. Old_Man on NAXJA, made a comment about the front sub frame flexing under side loads. When you consider these unibodys were designed to run 215s-225s on maintained roads, putting on bigger tires and flexing it out really stretches those design limits. We all know, Cliff ain't skeered of flexing it out. :p

With that in mind, I would check the front sub frame and mounting points for movement and cracks. Now that I've rested, I notice the track bar bracket does not have an export brace. If the bracket has a lower mounting point for the track bar, that puts more leverage against the bracket and the frame mounting area.

Ridgerunner made an export brace for his XJ, I just can't find the post.

[xaza]

The track bar bracket is designed for a support bar to bolt in. Just have to get it still. Yeah I am hard on my monoframe which is why by this Spring I am hoping to have frame stiffeners installed. This is the support bar and as you can see by the cost and ease of installation it is well worth it.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits-Suspensions-Shocks/Track-Bar-Bracket-Brace-XJ.aspx?t_c=1&t_s=101&t_pt=4303&t_pl=103581&t_

[Hypoid]

I've heard good things about the RE brace. Looking at the way it works, I think there is a lot of "bang for the buck!"

I found a picture of Dave's brace, I like it also. Either way, it's hard to go wrong!

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/P1040529.jpg

[RidgeRunner]

That brace was easy to make and made a world of difference.

[Popsgarage]

M.O.R.E. Steering box brace. Just some examples.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=T66_SB9037XJ_PIC_4_1_72.jpg&partNo=MRE&w=380
Currie.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=4WD_CE-9037X.jpg&partNo=CUR&w=380
Rugged Ridge Steering box brace.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=RUG_18021.05_PIC_4_1_72.jpg&partNo=RUG&w=380
Rugged Ridge Track bar brace/frame stiffener.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=4WD_18205_20.jpg&partNo=RUG&w=380
Warrior Products steering box brace.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=W-I_894_PIC_4_1_72.jpg&partNo=W%2fI&w=380

[Hypoid]

That brace was easy to make and made a world of difference.What materials did you use to make it?

[xaza]

So I adjusted the cam bolts today and took for a test drive. Took 285 up to RTD park and ride near Turkey Rd. Had a few oscillations but no death wobbles. Upon inspection afterward I noticed one of my coil springs is compressed and sitting on bracket for holding it in place. Other side has a little gap. Looks like the one spring may have turned on it's perch.

[RidgeRunner]

What materials did you use to make it?

Just some scrap I had laying around. The tube was 1" 11 ga. HREW tube and the plates were 3/16. Probably $10 worth of crap from K&K.

[Fordguy77]

So I adjusted the cam bolts today and took for a test drive. Took 285 up to RTD park and ride near Turkey Rd. Had a few oscillations but no death wobbles. Upon inspection afterward I noticed one of my coil springs is compressed and sitting on bracket for holding it in place. Other side has a little gap. Looks like the one spring may have turned on it's perch.
Glad to hear that you have found some more possible problems and the problems getting better. Also nice to hear they are of the free fix type.