Winch vs Winch

[Adaa60]

So ive been doing some research on winches and i found some stuff i thought you would like to know.

This winch : http://www.gowarn.com/prodDetail.aspx?partNo=WAR17801

and this winch : http://www.harborfreight.com/off-road-winch-with-automatic-load-holding-brake-12000-lb-capacity-68142.html

there PARTS are all made at the same plant and of the same quality materials. they are Put together in different factory's, but the gears, motors, & internal electronic's are all made in the same place.

i find it odd that we are tricked in to buying a $1,400 winch because its made by a name we know and trust to make a good quality product when there all the same for the most part. also a few other spec's you can notice

Warn Vs HFT
Line Pull : 12,000lbs vs 12,000lbs
Voltage : 12v vs 12v
Motor HP 4.6hp VS 6.0hp
wireless remote $127.80 vs $24.99
Gear ratio 261:1 vs 265:1
weight w/ cable,bracket & fair lead 136lbs vs 86.8
cable length 125ft 3/8 vs 85ft 3/8



Just food for thought
what is it that i get for that extra $1,101?

With that $1,101 i can buy 4 New tires & a rear bumper

[Chris]

I'll pay for a Warn any day simply because I need it to work when I need it.

I was looking at Badlands winches when at HF yesterday, nice prices for sure! Where/what information did you find that tells you they are the same parts? If they were the HP and gearing would be the same. Sorry but I'm not seeing it...

[Rick]

Where/what information did you find that tells you they are the same parts?I would be interested in seeing that as well.

[Adaa60]

my friend has one on his pickup thats about two years old. he had to order a new handle for froward reverse lever. he ordered it from the manufacture and the parts said that it was universal so we started looking up the other part numbers in its handbook and they were the same internal part numbers as the equal warn winch part book pdf we downloaded online. the brackets and plastics were diffrent but the motor bushing's gears boards and stuff were identical parts all shiped from the same place. im just useing the m12000 and the badlands 12000 as an example.

but for those of you who have doubts. im going to have my 4x4 for a while. im going out thursday i hope to buy a 12000 badlands winch for myself and we can test it with one of your warn winches. Also im gonna find me a broken warn one and take it apart. im willing to bet there all the same just like jasons badlands winch.

but my point was not that the two 12,000lbs winches were identical winches. just that there Parts are made the same at the same plant in china.

[Adaa60]

the only reason i even looked at this is because of cell phones lol.

i repair cell phones for a living. i have learned how to repair them for pennys on the dollar because i have found how to order the parts from the man instead of the supplier so i look for internal part numbers and refrence guides instead of just ordering somthing from ebay. for instance. the screen on an iphone 4s is actually made by 3 different company's, Samsung, sharp and Hitachi. order it online from ebay i can get the glass digi and lcd screen for about 14.99 but if i order from the Samsung plant i can get them for 9.98 each when i order 10 or more

so when i was looking at his winch and he told me how nice it was i took the time to look at the part numbers on its actual motor and gears, flanges, and the internal board man. on the warn PDF the part numbers were warn numbers yes, but in the photo the Actual number on the part the Man ref numbers were different when you look at those you will find that both motors were built the same

When i get the new winch i will take it apart and take some nice photos to show you guys what im talking about, then i'll try to find the internals to a warn and i'll show you how to order them both from the same place. this will also help you with the cost of repairing your stuff if it ever breaks. you will have to wait a bit longer for your replacement parts to come in the mail but the fit will be perfect and the cost will be considerably cheaper when you cut out the like 12 middlemen.

[Jim]

weight w/ cable,bracket & fair lead 136lbs vs 86.8
cable length 125ft 3/8 vs 85ft 3/8

I'm also in the "I'd like to see some proof that they're made in the same factory with the same parts".

Here are my thoughts:
1) If they came from the same factory with the same parts, why, aside from the longer cable length, does the Warn unit weight SUBSTANTIALLY more than the HF unit? Thirty-Five feet of cable can't weight 49.2 lbs.
2) IMO, quality control can be one large difference between products (of which China, while improving, doesn't have much regard for quality control measures [in comparison with QC in other countries]).

So, yes, if you have additional details on your "same factory" findings, I'd enjoy reviewing them. I'm always willing to learn and improve.

[Rick]

I dont doubt you was just curious like yourself.thanks

[Adaa60]

well, i believe the weight would be in the metal and construction of the two winches the fairlead for instance on the badlands winch is of a super thin cheap single fold metal with flimsy rollers and bolts where as the warn is much nicer with the noticeably thicker polished steel bracket and nice thick rollers.

the warn also has a full metal outer shell where most of the outer cover of the badlands is plastic. im sure there is a considerable amount of weight there as well. and the warn will have better Weather proofing protecting there internal parts

Also i Think that warn has A metal electronics cover where the badlands is plastic. the warn has sealed plug in's and MUCH thicker gauged power & ground wires.


both winches are ASSEMBLED in completely different locations and with VERY different levels of QC by far. and im sure that there is much much more testing done to the warn than the badlands before there put in the box. and by no means am i saying that the two winches are identical. the warn is defiantly much more likely to work better out of the box and last longer in tuff outdoor conditions with much less maintenance but for those of us who wash and take care of our rig's anyways. how much more work is it for you to oil and take care of a winch.

again im only referring to the internal parts not mounts or casings when im saying there made at the same plant. there Built different but i still don't see where the $1,100 comes in to play. i think that the warn is worth a good $300 more but that's about it. each piece it has that's better you could simply add to the cheap one as needed.

but for " me " personally, i live in a bad area, i have no intentions of leaving my winch in my truck. i plan on a modding my front bumper with a rese hitch so i can mount the winch on a receiver bracket and keep it in the back of my truck. I want to make somthing like this With handles.
http://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Superwinch/SW2050.html?feed=npn&gclid=CPnf9P7whrYCFetAMgodI3YAoQ
this way 1. it wont get stolen or damaged 2. by storing my winch inside the truck it wont have any off road damage or weather damage or rust. & 3. by mounting on a receiver insert i will be able to move the winch quickly from the front to rear of the truck with little effort making it easier for me to get myself out someone else out of trouble faster.

[ctracy5]

I agree with Jim, that the biggest difference is Quality control. How something is put together can make a huge difference in performance. It is like Sony versus Vizio TVs, basicly the same parts inside but 1 in 10,000 Vizios are broken in the box and 1 in 500,000 or less of the sonys have issues out of the box. I do agree that with companies like Warn and anything that is name brand (Apple, sony, etc.) you pay a lot for the name but you also pay for the customer service. I have no idea about badlands ( I have also be looking at them because I can't bring myself to put a winch on my truck that is worth more then it), but I know if anything goes wrong Warn will stand by there product.

[4Runninfun]

This is really interesting. When you get your winch please do post a bunch of pics. Aside from QC which has already been brought up some other things that might be making a difference are the wiring and the bearings. Both are one of the biggest differences I see between high quality and low quality products. But if all the internals are the same buying a used broken warn off CL and putting in HF parts might make sense.

[glacierpaul]

I got my Warn 9.5cti-s (100ft. synth.) winch, 2 D-rings, and a 3"x50' recovery strap for $1400.00 last year. I personally will always stay with Warn, from my experience and many friends experience too, let alone their track record.
I too am interested in your findings though. I have an Aunt that worked for Downtown Radio Repair, she told me in the 80's to buy a Sony deck for my car because that was who made almost every part in every radio(Alpine,JVC,Kenwood,etc.).
I am a do-it-yourselfer to some extent too, so your findings are of interest:).

[Jim]

but for " me " personally, i live in a bad area, i have no intentions of leaving my winch in my truck. i plan on a modding my front bumper with a rese hitch

Certainly. Theft is a concern all around. A receiver winch is certainly an option for the security realm.

If bumper mounting a winch, an easy security option is to tac weld a couple (or all) mounting bolts. That would thwart all but the most serious theft routes.

[glacierpaul]

A great guy who is no longer with us told me about receiver winching, make sure you create some extra bracing to the receiver mount and bumper/frame for side pulls. (RIP Pete!)
I plan on using a receiver style to accomodate 3 other vehicles I have. Another thing to consider is the weight of the unit, i.e, taking it on and off all the time, and that it will stick out farther.

[Adaa60]

my friend works at an old metal yard, he has set aside a few old rese hitch recivers for me that he has found as well as some steel square tube. i plan on learning to weld while i make an extra rock sliders for underneath and on each side of my xj, i also plan to use these parts to create and mod my front bumper as well. my goal altho i dont know if this makes sense is to make a rese hitch in the front & three on each side of the truck just above the smooth of my rock sliders.

my goal is to use them for diffrent things aside from just winching. i would like them to hold gear, grill's, and most imporntantly a nice bench style seats to watch outher jeeps as they play. i will show you guys some of my ideas. but my end game is to build a nice exoskeleton for the truck that has accerys that i can use 360% around the truck. i have no intent of bring them all with me but lets say i want to go watch you guys play on rocks one day i can bring 5 seats and my winch, and i can park atop a hill sidways and put a seat in the front rear and 3 in the side so people can sit and watch.

like i said i dont know if that makes sense but i will try to show you what i mean

[Tom]

Factories making more than one brand with their tooling is pretty standard practice. For years Sears Kenmore appliances were made by Whirlpool. The key difference being the specs were set by Sears.

I suspect the same situation applies here.

[Hypoid]

I remember looking at the HF winches side by side. I think the 12,000 lb model is over 100lbs in the box.

I am impressed by your supreme parts locating skilzzzzzzzzz! :bowdown: A couple years ago, Rob had trouble with his Superwinch brand, we could not find any part listings for love, or money.

[Chris]

Factories making more than one brand with their tooling is pretty standard practice. For years Sears Kenmore appliances were made by Whirlpool. The key difference being the specs were set by Sears.

That's right Tom, you could buy what appeared to the pretty much the same unit from either but Sears used some cheaper parts to sell it for less. Discount brand TV's vs quality brand name put out bids for components and slap whatever they get together to make a working machine, tire companies are few and far between but there are plenty of blands, etc.

This is pretty much true of everything we buy now.

[The StRanger]

I have no specs on solid names but here we go
Within the last 2 years I think it was 4 wheeler mag did a winch comperison test
The warn winch came out on top and the Badland never even made it out of the box
Smoked the motor in the 1st 5 feet of pull...

[CS79bronco]

IIRC they said it was an assembly problem, & must not have had any QC. From my experiences Harbor Freight will happily replace anything they sell while under warranty, and have a reasonable extended warranty available. But what good is that gonna do when you're stuck down the side of a mountain, or even just hung on a rock that was just a tad too big? I suppose the best thing is "never go alone", even if you do "go prepared". I certainly would not install anything on a rig and head right out for a trail run without testing it thoughorly beforehand, no matter who made or installed it.

[Robert B]

just want to throw this out there and i dont think it has been said yet .........most winches are basically the exact same thing with very similar designs minus a few types ......... and i do agree with generic brand stuff usually works for many things and is cheaper but cars i like name brand and sometimes it does pay off....i use warn and will use them forever probably as they have never let me down ..............i have heard pros and cons for most brands so its really what you fell safe with and what you want to spend really ........ so pick one maybe ask a few questions on it and if it looks good go for it is the best i can tell you ......though i will say i run a 6000 lb warn winch on my truck :P

[xaza]

I just recently opted for a Smittybilt winch. Was looking at Badlands winches and the Q series winches from Quadratec. Without a doubt looking at specs and pricing made the others look good. I made my decision because I do want winch to be reliable. It sits there all year waiting to get used being abused the whole time. Even though I now have what I believe to be a reliable winch I still carry 2 cumalongs. It has been my experience with HF that some things are a great value and others are just cheap. I do have an open mind and all great companies started as new companies, looking forward to more extensive testing

[Robert B]

since my dad has been more into jeeps now that he has one i have noticed that among the large number of magazines we have now on jeeps parts Quadratech seems to be over priced on just about everything made by everyone .........may not be true for everything or everyone but just looking at the same parts they are usually more so if you like what they have see if u can buy it elsewhere :) my neighbor has a smitty winch ..unused but it wound in just fine

[Java]

Thanks for posting this! I've got a HF winch on my list, and I'm going to pay the extra for the two year warranty. Every review I've read of the HF winches is positive. It's still 1/3 the price of Warn with the warranty and you can walk into the store for a replacement. I have a HF Highlift jack that I paid $35.00 for with a coupon, I had the same one on my last Jeep too, they work great. it is identical to the HiLift stamped model, I rebuilt my last HF one with a HiLift kit. When I bought the suspension for my Jeep I ordered two kits- the Old Man Emu for about $800.00 and the Rough Country for about $300.00. I put them side by side and returned the OME; they were basically identical, the RC springs were nicer, and RC is actually made in the USA. Branding and positioning aren't worth paying for, IMO.

[Rick]

smitty winch pd $400 for mine and have used it 5x's now with no issues;mine is the XRC10 and seems to have no problem pulling my truck.

[Robert B]

thats good rick as that is the model he got for his little jeep so it should be real easy on the winch :D

[The StRanger]

I have a Badlands 3,000 on the trailer and I havent had a problem with it
It pulled Pa Pa Smurf up with a dead engine ...
But... If it comes to pullin me out of a ditch or spendin a cold night on the side os a ditch
I want a provin name !!!!

[glacierpaul]

I can vouch for Rick's winch, pulled his truck thru 3-4' of snow for a ways. But I was worried about the situation we were in and that winch (hell it could have been any winch) failing. Still it worked like a charm.

[Rick]

But I was worried about the situation we were in and that winch (hell it could have been any winch) failing. Still it worked like a charm.X2!!!!!!:D:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[Fordguy77]

While the parts all come from the same manufacturer, that does not mean they are cast, forged, or made of the same materials. It is rather common, back when we still had a tool forge in Colorado springs, snap-on, craftsman, and Williams all came out of the same plant, but that doesn't mean that they were all created equally. Also not all warn winches carry across, and some of the other winch product lines are still rather american, at least in certain product applications. Just goes to show research before you buy. But never forget just because the origin is the same, the same doesn't hold true for quality.
Ie Craftsman Vs Gearwrench
Snap On Vs Blue Point
and so on.
On a side note the closest thing you can get to an "American Made Winch" is a Ramsey

[scout man]

well, not really weighing in on this issue, but I will tell you what. I bought the smittybuilt xrc8 recently and there were a few things that seemed excessively cheap on it. The hook barelly fit over the spindle, and the first time I dropped the controller it shattered! I toss my warn one on the scout around like its a tennisball and I never have a problem with it. This one fell off my lap from a seat position and broke into three pieces. But hell, as long as it pulls my truck I will get over it! Still only cost me half as much as a warn and is really just there for those oh-sh*t moments.

[Rick]

there for those oh-sh*t moments.Yep!!!

[glacierpaul]

While the parts all come from the same manufacturer, that does not mean they are cast, forged, or made of the same materials. It is rather common, back when we still had a tool forge in Colorado springs, snap-on, craftsman, and Williams all came out of the same plant, but that doesn't mean that they were all created equally. Also not all warn winches carry across, and some of the other winch product lines are still rather american, at least in certain product applications. Just goes to show research before you buy. But never forget just because the origin is the same, the same doesn't hold true for quality.
Ie Craftsman Vs Gearwrench
Snap On Vs Blue Point
and so on.
On a side note the closest thing you can get to an "American Made Winch" is a Ramsey
I know my local tow guys all use Ramsey, I still went with Warn myself. I just got the Northern Tool catalog, they have some good prices on Ramsey winches.

[ExplorerTom]

Ran into a guy on Twin Cone this weekend. He also had a Badlands winch on the front of his Jeep. I asked him how he liked it and he mentioned (without any word from me) that the Badlands and Warn are identical. He said he has used it a couple times without issues.

Just FYI. Was it anyone on here?

[glacierpaul]

I just recently opted for a Smittybilt winch. Was looking at Badlands winches and the Q series winches from Quadratec. Without a doubt looking at specs and pricing made the others look good. I made my decision because I do want winch to be reliable. It sits there all year waiting to get used being abused the whole time. Even though I now have what I believe to be a reliable winch I still carry 2 cumalongs. It has been my experience with HF that some things are a great value and others are just cheap. I do have an open mind and all great companies started as new companies, looking forward to more extensive testing

Cliff's Smitty pulled both my Jeep and his bro in laws Toyota(separately) toward him stuck in the snow, we both were in park as anchors too :).