Choose my new welder!

[scout man]

My welder has died. It needs a new motor, which would run me $300+ dollars. I only paid like $350 for it originally and I would still be left with a pretty well worn welder. I dont have the cash for a new welder right now, but I have a good amount of credit card points that I can use on amazon. I figure it makes more sense to spend up the points plus the $300 I would have spent anyways, and have a good, brand new welder that will last a long time. So anyways, here are my choices. Also open to other suggestions, but there are a few limitations: must be on Amazon, but be an upgrade from my Hobart Handler 175, and must be a good name brand. No more that $1000 though. Look through the following and let me know what you think!

This might be my favorite, but I dont like that it takes 2 - 5 weeks to ship, but if its worth waiting for, then I will do it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ATBQFF4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Hobart variations
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X5THN0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1ACCLE3F0BY90
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005CNOVZU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004USV5UC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005CGZNMM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Lincoln Variations
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LPUYI2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1X3HB95POB91O
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TS8D2M/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2O561G1SPZ87O

Let me know any input you have!! I know I listed a lot, but I want to hear what everyone has to say, since I have only ever had the one Hobart, well except for my little Clark flux core.

[Brian]

Unless you just had to have stick/TIG, I'd just go with the Lincoln Electric Easy MIG 180 230V Flux Cored/MIG Welder. I have a different model Flux/MIG Lincoln that has served me well for about 7 years so far with no issues. The Longevity looks interesting but never seen or heard of them before. Besides, doesn't Lincoln also make a locker?:D

:2c:

[scout man]

dont have the have the tig, but wouldnt mind learning. Stick could be nice just cause sometimes its simply too windy for a mig at my house, but dont have to have it. I have a longevity plasma cutter and I have been very happy with it though.

[Clickpopboom]

I used a coworker's Lincoln 216 the other day and it was awesome. If the 180 is similar you will probably like it.

[scout man]

thats two votes for lincoln so far! Never used a lincoln personally, but everyone seems to like them. Might be smarter than a hobart anyways since Hobart has been sold, so finding parts is a bit more challenging. I find it interesting though that both votes have been for the cheapest option!

[Clickpopboom]

My unofficial vote would be for the Lincoln 216, but they are about double the budget you are working with.

[scout man]

well thats fine, as long as someone is willing to provide the additional funds! :D

there were also a few millermatic options, but I am just not sure I am sold on the auto-select feature. Seems like cheating to me.

[Brian]

I find it interesting though that both votes have been for the cheapest option!

It's a Scout thing, you understand. :D

[scout man]

you have no idea.......

That said, I think I am currently leaning towards the Lincoln 180C. I intend to have this for a long long time, and it sounds like the 180c has more robust insides that break less freaquently, according to research I have been doing. That might be worth the extra $150. Plus the 180C has a continuous voltage dial, while the regular 180 is tapped. Never had that luxery, but it seems like it might be nice!

[scout man]

of course, just when I think I have decided on Lincoln, I start finding people saying the hobart 187 is more powerful and better arc control than the lincoln.

[Haku]

For what you do...its really worth getting something that is at least a 200 series or bigger and has a decent duty cycle. I know the price goes up a ton when you start getting into that territory, but you DO get what you pay for and there a good deals out there.

If you aren't picky, you could always look at the "chinese" brands. I know you have a Longevity plasma cutter, and they do make decent MIG units for ALOT cheaper. Same goes for Everlast, which is the plasma I got and I hear good things about their MIG machines too. The TIG learning curve is rather steep, so unless you want to invest a bunch of time into learning it before you can really do projects with it, I would steer clear unless you can find a Multi-process unit. Even when you are good at it, TIG takes a lot more time and is much harder to get into tight spaces, so IMHO MIG is the way to go for general fabrication. That said, there is no question that TIG would be better for plate bumps and would cut down a ton on grinding time and/or the visual quality of the welds once you were proficient with it (I reference this thread on OFN... http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1114&highlight=proper+welds)

I know you aren't overflowing with cash right now, so its a hard decision, but a welder is a long term purchase and getting a machine that can do whatever your needs require now and in the future will pay off over just getting something that you will be using on maximum settings most of the time. The 180 series Lincoln is only recommended for 3/16" thick steel, and I know I use 1/4" to 3/8" or even 1/2" steel all the time. They are usually pretty conservative with their estimates and you can fudge it, but to do it right its worth getting the right stuff.

One thing to think about is that one of the local welding shops like General Air or similar might be willing to do a trade in program for your current welder when you buy a new one, which might make getting a bigger unit a more viable option too.

Lastly, if you do end up getting the 180 series machine, this one sure looks like an AWESOME fit for someone like us that has frequent trails fixes that could use a welder...

Hobart Trek 180 Video...internal battery powered MIG Welder... http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/battery-powered/trek180/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeSjuXhjMdw

$1100 bucks, has its own battery system, can still plug into the wall or charge off an alternator, and you can still use it with a bottle at the shop too. I can see that being a nice thing to have for work too, and even if you get a higher amperage machine later its still REALLY useable for what we do.

If you need something to get you by while you save up, you can use my Miller 211 for a while. I have the MIG at the Club Workshop to use, so having mine is more a convenience then a necessity at the moment.

[scout man]

yea, the amazon part is real important since its where I can use my $600 of credit card points, otherwise a welder isnt happening. Keep in mind the 3/16 number is single pass. You can always burn in deeper than that. I have burned some serious welds into 3/4" plate with my 175. Its just all about how you use it. I have some projects in the works that I have to have the welder for, so I think these are my choices. I think it probably comes down the the Lincoln Powermig 180C, or the hobart 187. I am familiar with the hobart, but I am kind of pissed about how hard it was to find parts for my last one. Never really heard anything bad about lincoln, but its new to me, and it is seemingly maybe a little less powerfull than the hobart, although really the specs are pretty much identical. The continuous voltage on the 180C could be really nice though.

[scout man]

and my 175 has 4 power settings and I very rarely use it on the highest setting. Mostly bounce between 2 and 3.

[scout man]

and there is a 210 series on that list

[scout man]

of course, now josh has me thinking of this one, as it is 210 amp and claims to weld 3/8 single pass.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004USV5UC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

This is why I rarely buy things new. Usually I wait for a good deal, then learn to be happy with the features :D

[scout man]

yea, now that I added the hobart 210 into my research chain, I think that one is going to win. GREAT reviews on it, most amps in my price range, etc. Seems like its basically the millermatic 211 with out the auto-set (fine by me) and maybe few cheaper parts, but since its not getting abused like it would in a shop I think thats alright. Thanks everyone for your help! last chance to talk me out of this one!

[Haku]

I don't know how old your Hobart is, but Hobart and Miller are the same company now, so in theory any new Welder from them you can find parts at any welding dealer that carries either. Not sure about their older stuff though.

Like I said in my last post, comparing similar series welders to each other between Lincoln, Miller and Hobart is down to the small details and honestly what color you like best. I honestly think the reason I got a Miller is because I really like blue things and not red, plus it had a few features I liked like the Multi-Voltage plug and auto settings.

There is a guy on another board that might have an idea of what motor you need and how hard it would be to replace, and might have an idea about doing it cheaper if you want me to ask him too. The offer still stands if you want to borrow my MIG for a bit too.

I didn't see the Longevity one you posted, but that is what I would go with, if not for any other reason then it has 200amp output for MIG. I doubt you'll use the Stick mode much, but if you want to learn to TIG then its defininitely worth getting a multi-process unit like that so you can learn over time but still have a MIG to use while you do. So, in my estimation, it IS worth waiting a couple weeks to get that Longevity unit. Might be worth calling them to see if they actually wait that long to ship, as the seller is Longevity themselves.

Oh, and most(if not all) MIG welders are Continuous Voltage units, which includes all of the ones you posted so far. You only get into Constant Current (CC) with Stick welders, and Constant Voltage(CV) when you talk about MIG. The practical differenence is that a MIG welder maintains the same voltage as you weld but the current changes depending on how far away the nozzle gets from welding surface, whereas a stick welder does the opposite and maintains the same Current (aka Amperage) but varies the voltage to maintain a consistant weld arc. At the end of the day it doesn't matter, as any of the 180 series units do it pretty much the same way so don't worry about a difference between the Hobart and Lincoln stuff. The Longevity unit is a bit different since it uses an Invert setup (IGBT) that can make either kind, hence why you can get stick, TIG and MIG out of the same unit.

Also of note, thats a DC only TIG, so it won't be able to do Aluminum, which needs AC current. Also, TIG requires straight Argon gas, because the tungsten (the part the weld arc comes off of) needs it to work correctly, so you would need two bottles with different gasses (though some people make 100% Argon work with MIG, it just makes a colder weld that doesn't penetrate as much).

Ok, probably welding TMI, so I'll wrap it up. I guess, for my opinion (worth price charged), its a coin toss between Longevity or Hobart 210 MVP (since its got more amperage for only a bit more money), then a distant second to the Lincoln 180c. The selling point for the Hobart and Lincoln is that they can plug into 120v or 240v plugs, so you do smaller welding jobs in places that don't have a 240v power source if you have to. That Hobart 210 is essentially the same thing I have underneath, and its done really well for me so far. The Longevity one is nice if you plan on learning to TIG, but if its not a high priority then it looses most of its value over the 210, and for $50 more you can double the rated material thickness between the 210 and the 180c.

[Haku]

yea, now that I added the hobart 210 into my research chain, I think that one is going to win. GREAT reviews on it, most amps in my price range, etc. Seems like its basically the millermatic 211 with out the auto-set (fine by me) and maybe few cheaper parts, but since its not getting abused like it would in a shop I think thats alright. Thanks everyone for your help! last chance to talk me out of this one!

Yeah, I didn't see that either. I think thats the winner (if you couldn't see that from above). Like you said, its the same thing underneath as the Miller 211 I have. It trades duty cycle for higher amperage, but I have yet to hit the over temp limit on mine yet. Its 30% at max capicity (i.e. weld for 3 minutes of every 10), but I think I've turned it all the way up twice since I owned it and it can weld all day long at the 6-7 mark on the power dial.

I say gods speed with your purchase, thats a hell of a deal.

[scout man]

by continuous voltage I mean you can select a full range of voltage, not just the pre-determined notches they allow you to select. The knob is not notched basically. I thought about the longevity one, but at the end of the day its too much for the price. Meaning I would rather a unit that does one thing really well than three things not so well. I've been talking with the parts guys at general air for a while. I know i can replace the motor easily enough, but its $300, and thats more cash than I am putting out for a brand new welder that will work right for a lot longer. My welder has also been heavily molested, as the current motor is not the correct one aparently, so who knows what else is wrong. Its also old enough that parts are a problem. I think I am going to go ahead and order the hobart 210. Seems like what will fit my needs the best

[scout man]

yea, I have only ever hit the duty cycle on my 175 (i think also 30%) one time, and thats while I was welding miles of weld on my trailer ramps, without really stopping at all. Its pretty rare to weld that continuous without stopping here and there. In that case I had 6 ft long pieces of angle iron to stitch together, so I would stop just long enough to jump to a new spot.

[Haku]

by continuous voltage I mean you can select a full range of voltage, not just the pre-determined notches they allow you to select. The knob is not notched basically. I thought about the longevity one, but at the end of the day its too much for the price. Meaning I would rather a unit that does one thing really well than three things not so well. I've been talking with the parts guys at general air for a while. I know i can replace the motor easily enough, but its $300, and thats more cash than I am putting out for a brand new welder that will work right for a lot longer. My welder has also been heavily molested, as the current motor is not the correct one aparently, so who knows what else is wrong. Its also old enough that parts are a problem. I think I am going to go ahead and order the hobart 210. Seems like what will fit my needs the best

Yeah...I agree for the most part. I got my plasma as a Multi-process unit, and I haven't even put the TIG gun on it.

I didn't know thats what you meant with Continuous Voltage, but I agree now that I know that. I've definitely done half way between the numbers with mine and noticed a difference, so its a nice thing to have. The Hobart should have that too, but I'm not sure. I think the only real difference between mine and the Hobart 210 is that the Miller has auto-set on it, which I hardly ever use and isn't worth spending extra money on. Only thing I would change on mine is the welding gun kinda sucks and I've been thinking about upgrading, but its doing well enough for now.

Good luck with your sweet new welder.

[scout man]

Yup, just ordered the 210. This one doesnt have the continuous voltage, but it has 7 selections. since my old one had 4, thats kind of like moving up to continuous by comparisson! This one comes with the miller gun, so if your sucks, so will mine! Hey, as long as it feeds right I am happy. My motor on my last one would speed up and slow down, and sometimes stop, which makes it REALLY hard to weld well.

[Brad]

Sooooo does this mean we need to postpone tomorrow?

[glacierpaul]

Sooooo does this mean we need to postpone tomorrow? :)

I have been debating getting a welder too, thanks for the info guy's!!

[scout man]

Sooooo does this mean we need to postpone tomorrow?
No, we are all good Brad. That project is small enough I can still make this welder work for it. The motor still works in short spurts, just the longer you weld the more trouble it starts to give you. I also have my flux core which is fine for that project. I did about half of the project with the flux core the first time araound.

[Brad]

Ok cool! See you at 10. :thumb:

[scout man]

:thumb:

[Clickpopboom]

I just went out and browsed all of our tech's stalls and found that one of them is using a similar Hobart with the Miller Stinger on it. May even be the same model, he said he paid $900 for it 10 years ago. (I couldn't see the model # on his, it's mostly enclosed in his cart) He said it has held up to almost 10 years of shop use, but the Miller stinger will burn out its trigger switch if you are running a bunch of long beads. Miller doesn't sell it separate, so you end up rigging up a different switch from the Grainger catalog.

[carpenle]

Congrats on the purchase.

[Popsgarage]

I really like my Miller 211 Autoset as well.

[scout man]

I just went out and browsed all of our tech's stalls and found that one of them is using a similar Hobart with the Miller Stinger on it. May even be the same model, he said he paid $900 for it 10 years ago. (I couldn't see the model # on his, it's mostly enclosed in his cart) He said it has held up to almost 10 years of shop use, but the Miller stinger will burn out its trigger switch if you are running a bunch of long beads. Miller doesn't sell it separate, so you end up rigging up a different switch from the Grainger catalog.

:thumb: Thanks for the research! good to know. I can deal with that!

[zukrider]

I LOVE my Handler 210. i have welded 3/8 to 3/8 with it, and welded a 3/4" EMT roof rack together with it. just on 75/25. it does real well for me, but the welding outside with wind thing sucks!