lift kit control arm questions

[dscowell]

The BDS lift I'm going to be purchasing with in the next couple days comes with the option of adding lower and upper control arms. I was wondering are these important as of this moment or could I go awhile with the stock control arms and be fine? It is a 3" lift.

[Fordguy77]

My friend did a similar lift on a Cherokee, and opted to leave out the control arms. His ride quality was horrible, and there was little to no suspension travel/flex. Finally installed the proper arms, and it greatly improved the ride quality, and helped out his suspension travel a great deal. Its up to you, but really if it was me, i would do the whole thing. No sense on spending money if its gonna just be a hack job. Just my :2c:

[dscowell]

alright well I don't really have the money for the control arms right now so that will probably be next then

[dscowell]

Could I maybe take some control arms off another vehicle for a temporary fix?

[xaza]

With a 3" lift you don't really need longer uppers yet, though they are nice. You should try to get the lower control arms though. Wish I could afford my long arm kit, I would sell you mine :D. Does your lift include a track bar? Sway bar drop links? You go with add a leafs?

[Fordguy77]

Watch CL for people who are selling Cherokee parts. I know a few people who had lifted there jeeps and bought the control arms, then lifted again, and had to get new ones again and they sold off all there old parts. Its not that you cant get away without them, its just better to have them.

[dscowell]

With a 3" lift you don't really need longer uppers yet, though they are nice. You should try to get the lower control arms though. Wish I could afford my long arm kit, I would sell you mine :D. Does your lift include a track bar? Sway bar drop links? You go with add a leafs?

track bar relocation bracket. Could upgrade to there adjustable track bar but don't really have the money
comes standard with longer sway bar links. Think I'll upgrade to their quick disconnects sense they are $153 alone with the kit they are $71
It is an add a leaf kit. Haven't found any leaf packs for comanches except Hell Creek but I already purchased a new leaf pack and for the price the bds is the better kit.

[dscowell]

Watch CL for people who are selling Cherokee parts. I know a few people who had lifted there jeeps and both the control arms, then lifted again, and had to get new ones again and they sold off all there old parts. Its not that you cant get away without them, its just better to have them.

Alright that's good to know. I just read that you can use JK UCA as LCA for XJ and MJ. They are about 2" longer would that work or still be too short

[Fordguy77]

Alright that's good to know. I just read that you can use JK UCA as LCA for XJ and MJ. They are about 2" longer would that work or still be too short
Not sure, I imagine it would be better than nothing. Kinda out of my territory(I hang out in leaf sprung/radius arm world) on these ones, and just know enough to be very unhelpful haha.

[redneck23ms]

homestly if i were you i would wait and piece together your own "kit" since money is a factor. pick up a set of used control arms, and possibly some rc control arm drop brackets, 4" springs, a good trackbar because if you are really going to wheel then a stock one even with relocation bracket isn't enough, spring over the rear with stock springs and you're good to go. this is basically how my mj was setup and it worked great. this was with worn out 36's http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l102/redneck23ms/100_0762.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/redneck23ms/media/100_0762.jpg.html) http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l102/redneck23ms/100_0760.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/redneck23ms/media/100_0760.jpg.html)

[dscowell]

homestly if i were you i would wait and piece together your own "kit" since money is a factor. pick up a set of used control arms, and possibly some rc control arm drop brackets, 4" springs, a good trackbar because if you are really going to wheel then a stock one even with relocation bracket isn't enough, spring over the rear with stock springs and you're good to go. this is basically how my mj was setup and it worked great. this was with worn out 36's

I want to eventually do a bigger lift. But for now I'm going to stick with a small lift sense I won't be doing too much wheeling and this will be my DD. I'm planning on doing a SOA lift after or during College but for now that's just to big for what I'm doing. But thanks anyways for the suggestion I'll make sure to keep it into consideration.

[Popsgarage]

Are you set on the BDS lift. Their cost over other competitors is quite significant and quality fit and finish isn't that much diffetent.

Rough Country.
http://www.roughcountry.com/jeep_mj_suspension_lift_kits.html

Rusty's.
http://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-suspension/jeep-suspension-lift-kits/mj-comanche-86-93-jeep-suspension-lift-kits/

BDS.
http://bds-suspension.com/product?ma=7&mo=33&ty=39&yr=1986-1991

And my favorite.
http://www.rubiconexpress.com/Lift-Kits-Suspensions-Shocks/Jeep-Suspension.aspx?t_c=1&t_s=38&t_pt=3533&vgID=12&Rubicon%20Express%20Suspension%20Type_PQ=SUPER-RIDE%20SHORT%20ARM&Manufacturer_PQ=Rubicon%20Express#tab4

Really do your homework and talk to other people about how their rigs worked and drove after each upgrade. Cliff would be one, Alex would be another, and I've got a plethora of other friends that have lifted and driven XJ's. Mike (Hypoid) has a list of junkyard parts to lift and upgrade your MJ that might cost you a hundred bucks or so at the local yards.

[Hypoid]

John, Dante has a busted leaf in one pack. He stated in another thread, that he is shopping for full leaf packs in his kit. IIRC, his budget is around five bills.

I have a couple sets of lower arms...cheap!

[Fordguy77]

homestly if i were you i would wait and piece together your own "kit" since money is a factor. pick up a set of used control arms, and possibly some rc control arm drop brackets, 4" springs, a good trackbar because if you are really going to wheel then a stock one even with relocation bracket isn't enough, spring over the rear with stock springs and you're good to go. this is basically how my mj was setup and it worked great.

X2
As you have said this is your DD and you do plan on going SOA eventually, but I would still push to do it sooner rather than later. The swap itself is very easy and you can purchase kits to do it for $130 or so. The hardest part is welding on the new perches, and I know it can sound intimidating, but its really not as bad as it sounds. There are several people on this board whom could weld them for you, and honestly would probably do it for next to nothing. The SOA would only take a few hours to complete and be ready to be back on the road.

If your worried about the height of the SOA being to high, there are a few ways around it, and the most common being just removing a leaf or 2 from your spring pack. Many guys who do SOA's on the 60 feel they sit to high with the stock packs, and remove a few springs to drop the overall lift height.

I just did a very basic craigslist search and found 2 sets of 3.5" for $100.

Piecing together a kit can take more time, and research, but it can also save you a fair amount of money, and allow you to get what you want the first go around.

A few of the kits that Jon(popsgarage) are cheaper than the BDS, including the RE kits without shocks, which also include the lower control arms. I imagine you could get a set of Racnho 5500 for very reasonable as they are always on sale, and be right at the cost of the BDS with more parts.

Also dont forget, just because you have the lift for X tires doesn't mean you cant run something smaller, or whatever is desired. Leaves left over room for more flex :thumb:

[Fordguy77]

John, Dante has a busted leaf in one pack. He stated in another thread, that he is shopping for full leaf packs in his kit. IIRC, his budget is around five bills.

I have a couple sets of lower arms...cheap!

Speaking of which Dante, the you pull and pay, has about 25 Cherokees you could go rob the rear leaf packs out of for $20 a side. Think i might of saw something you mention going with ADD-A-Leafs somewhere else. But I vote for new packs.

[Hypoid]

I think Comanche springs are longer than Cherokee springs.

A two or three inch lift is plenty for a start. I'm almost afraid to go higher, because the budget boost does well for my wants and needs.

[xaza]

Is the spring width the same as a Cherokee? Could a longer shackle compensate for shorter spring?

[dscowell]

I got a new leaf springs from 4x4 offroad and used parts in FoCo and I'm going to be picking it up within the next couple days. And yes MJ leafs are longer then XJ. With all those kits that are cheaper they also don't include transfer case drop, new track bar or track bar brackets or new sway bar links. I'm not sure if those are quiet necessary for 3" or not.(please inform me if they are not) With the SOA I'm just worried about having to run larger tires with my stock gear ratio being too high and not being able to reach the speed limit like when I had my TJ.

[Java]

the only thing I think you might not need would be the tcase drop due to your wheelbase, but the rest of it sounds good to me. If you don't get the arms now can you get them at the same price later? If so I'd give it a shot w/o first.

[gm4x4lover]

The junk yard next door has 2 lifted Cherokee's they are parting out if anyone is interested.

[Fordguy77]

I was checking google and it brought me to some mj only sites with lots of info. Most said stocks can't do much more than 2-3" lift and even then change when ya can.

[The StRanger]

Do 3 inches with stock arms.
Then save youre pennys for a long arm ..

[dscowell]

I got awhile til I decide so I'll let you guys know what I go with once I decide!

[Fordguy77]

check out this site for info and opinions
http://comancheclub.com/page/index.html

[dscowell]

I'm already a member of CC I have actually been a member longer there then I have FrontRange. I just don't post too much on there because my questions usually get answered by one person cross referencing me to another page to see interchangeable parts or a quick answer. I just like posting here because everyone gives in some sort of input and I learn a lot more as apposed to CC.

[Hypoid]

I just like posting here because everyone gives in some sort of input and I learn a lot more:thumb:

[Popsgarage]

I think Comanche springs are longer than Cherokee springs.

Yes they are. There were one or two Comanche's at the Pull n Pay on Broadway. Just replace the broken leaf and go spring over.

[Popsgarage]

Is the spring width the same as a Cherokee?

Yes it is.

[Popsgarage]

. With all those kits that are cheaper they also don't include transfer case drop, new track bar or track bar brackets or new sway bar links.

Not always necessary but some of the parts are nice to have. Transfer case drop is kinda not necessary and if it is needed for driveline vibes you can fab one for far cheaper. Swaybar endlinks aren't necessary.

[redneck23ms]

very true. i ran soa with no t-case drop and no sye with out any probs also had no sway bar.

[dscowell]

What about this for SOA

http://www.experimentalinsanity.com/vehicle/resources/mj-lift.html

It's running on stock control arms that's the only thing that would need to be upgraded after is there anything that wouldn't be necessary?

[redneck23ms]

that seems to be pretty much everything. some parts are more now than when that list was made. and some can be found cheaper elsewhere. the rough country drop brackets are cheaper than RE and i believe the braces for the RE brackets won't work on a mj but i know the RC ones will as i installed them on mine. barnes4wd has cheaper spring perches etc than ruff stuff. i'd also suggest getting steering box frame plates. can get them fairly cheap on ebay from a seller named iron scorpion. or something along those lines

[Java]

FWIW I have an LJ, same arms as TJ / XJ / MJ (as far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong!!) and have been running a RC 2.5" lift with OEM control arms for 2 years now without any issues. I carry a spare OEM lower arm but have had no use for it so far. I just retorqued the front end a day ago and everything still looks great.

[redneck23ms]

to match the rear spring over he will need more than 2.5" of lift more like 5" but with the drop brackets he can run stock arms. even so if you plan on wheeling very hard the stock arms just won't hold up for long. you are correct that xj,tj, mj all use the same front arms

[Popsgarage]

Great list. That's what I'd do. Keep your eyes peeled in the Jeep section at the yards and you'll find a set of adjustable arms eventually. For around $20 to $30 bucks.

[dscowell]

Yeah I know that the control arms would probably be the first to be replaced. What about longer brake lines or shocks? Anything else that might need to be added to this list? I am not the one who made it I found it at CC in the DIY section.

[xaza]

With my Cherokee I was ok with relocating bracket on brake lines for my 3.5" lift, had to extend them when I added spacers though. Longer shocks is a yes, I have used Ranchos for quite some time and my brother swears by the Bilsteins he used to have.

[dscowell]

Never mind about the break lines I just read it again and it comes with longer break line hoses. http://www.roughcountry.com/jeep_xj_control_arm_drop.php Found the RC drop brackets which are a good amount cheaper then the RE ones! I was also thinking of getting springs from somewhere other then RE sense theirs are quite a bit of money.

[Hypoid]

One of the NAXJA guys was telling me about getting a referral to a vendor. It seems the better companies don't want to undercut the retailers who are selling their parts. The guy told me he was referred to a vendor who was having a sale, with significantly lower prices than the brand's web site.

It's nice to know I can get taller coils for less than a Franklin: http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/Suspension-Lift-Kits/Rubicon-Express-Suspension/Rubicon-Express-Components/Suspension-Components/Coil-Springs-Spacers/Rubicon-Express/Rubicon-Express-Coil-Springs-XJ-MJ-4.5

:)

[Fordguy77]

The only thing you would be missing is the shocks, and for a set of 4 range anywhere from just over a $100 to $500. They usually have sets of 4 on sell at 4wheelparts.com, and I imagine if you look around you can find some elsewhere as well.

[dscowell]

oooh yes thank you. I figured as much with the shocks 4wd always has some sort of sale. I'm going to be going with this kit. I'll get all the parts then see if I can get someone on here to help me put it all together. Thanks everybody! All of your help and input is much appreciated!

[Fordguy77]

oooh yes thank you. I figured as much with the shocks 4wd always has some sort of sale. I'm going to be going with this kit. I'll get all the parts then see if I can get someone on here to help me put it all together. Thanks everybody! All of your help and input is much appreciated!
No prob post up when your ready and I'm sure a few people will be more than willing to help out. Myself included.

[dscowell]

I sure will!

[dscowell]

for anyone wondering I added up to new total with the new prices along with seriousoffroadproducts RE springs, Barnes4wd leaf perches, RC control arm drop brackets and 4 skyjacker nitro serious shocks from morris4x4. It came to be 772.56 with out taxes or shipping.

[Fordguy77]

for anyone wondering I added up to new total with the new prices along with seriousoffroadproducts RE springs, Barnes4wd leaf perches, RC control arm drop brackets and 4 skyjacker nitro serious shocks from morris4x4. It came to be 772.56 with out taxes or shipping.
Little more than the planned budget, but should preform much better than any off the shelf kits. I'll keep my eye out for you, I seem to get Rough Country coupons once in a while. Also cool to be supporting a vendor from the forum as well! Theres also a guy on face book selling long arms off a WJ, but idk what crosses over on the MJ world.

[Popsgarage]

Should be the same bit of fab work to get them to work on a Comanche as the Cherokee.

[dscowell]

After my next pay check I should have more then plenty with some left over to pay for gas til school. The long arm would probably have to wait sense this is going to be about 80% of my money and once football and school starts I'll only be working 2 days at most. But thanks for keeping an eye out for me.

[dscowell]

Quick shock question the shocks I was looking at are for 6"-8" sense this lift will be 5.5 to 7.5 would these shock be fine with 5.5 I would assume so but I'm just making sure.

[Fordguy77]

You might wait on getting the shocks until after you have lift done. Because your shock length may change depending on how you choose to mount them.

[dscowell]

Choose to mount them? Could you please explain

[Fordguy77]

Well I guess it depends, some people relocate there shocks for better performance and travel when they do there SOA. And on some rigs depending on how hey we're mounted from the factory you may or may not need to relocate them. Other than that I would just look at what length everyone over at cc is running with there SOA and choose something along those lines.

[Fordguy77]

I'd go more in depth at the moment, but I'm on my phone on my lunch break. If no one explains it better, ill post up when I get home.

[dscowell]

Don't sweat it!

[xaza]

The front you won't be doing any relocating and the 6-8" shocks are what I run with my 5.5" lift. If you go too short with shocks they will reduce the down travel of tire and will get ripped apart. If you go too long they will reduce up travel and will likely bend the shaft. When setting up rear suspension if there are no binding or clearance issues I would use factory mounts. You can use a jack and raise one tire until full compression of spring and measure distance between shock mounts. Then lift truck and get suspension fully flexed out and measure again. With those two numbers and mount style you should be able to get easily set up with the perfect shocks. I am right here learning the Comanche with you so I can't help with what might be in the way.

[Fordguy77]

I am right here learning the Comanche with you so I can't help with what might be in the way.
X2 or uh 3
Totally new in the MJ world, and just know what I have found trying to help you.


If you go too short with shocks they will reduce the down travel of tire and will get ripped apart. If you go too long they will reduce up travel and will likely bend the shaft. When setting up rear suspension if there are no binding or clearance issues I would use factory mounts

This is essentially what i was trying to get at. The stock location is sometimes of the spring plate on some vehicles, or sticks off the axle in a spot prone to getting hit by rocks. Many people choose to relocate them to the top of the axle, and "triangulate" them to allow "more" travel out of the shock for compression/decompression.





You can use a jack and raise one tire until full compression of spring and measure distance between shock mounts. Then lift truck and get suspension fully flexed out and measure again. With those two numbers and mount style you should be able to get easily set up with the perfect shocks

And thats what I meant by measure

[dscowell]

Aw I see thank you guys! Well that means more time I will have to wait to drive it once everything is assembled but it is probably the best thing to do. No one has responded to me on CC yet so we will see by tomorrow if anyone says anything!