4 link has any body done one???

[colozj93]

So since the tranny went again on the ZJ I have just decided to make it a full on project and make it the crawler it deserves to be. I want to do a one off 4 link suspension both front and rear. I want to keep it street-ish-able like to and from trails. I have not fabed one and would like some ideas and maybe some help in the future. Has anyone made one or have good tips so this can happen. My plans are to start digging in as soon as January.

[xaza]

Frank has
http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?17181-My-4-Link

I like the XJ one offered by TnT too but they don't have one for a ZJ

[zukrider]

3 link is far easier to package.

[colozj93]

Yea I was looking at that but I think I want to go 4 link. It just seems like a better fit for what I want out of the Jeep

[zukrider]

would you mind explaining? curious what makes you think so?

[colozj93]

From what I have gathered it has a little more strength. I understand ther truly isn't much differance as far as flex and useability, personally I like the appearance of the 4 link. If anyone has info as to one or the other please let me know.

[The StRanger]

I like a 4 link But
Why is Shannon Campbell KOH Buggy a 3 link ??

[colozj93]

true story... but he does also have a IFS front. I just don't know... I am fairly set on the dual 4 link set up I just cant figure out how to get it set up on the vehicle. As far as amount of lift I want tire size I want to run and how to physically get it set up on the vehicle. I have a ZJ with a factory 4 (5) link but I want the lift and clearance to fit 40" tires as well as the ability to flex over major obstacles. The issue I am having is purely on how to set it up not really as what to use

[The StRanger]

Some years ago Xtreme 4X4 did a show on link setups
A little web surfing should bring somethin up .

[zukrider]

a 3 link with panhard for the front is easiest to stuff in tight spaces while not gaining hugh lift. for the rear, and triangle upper 3 link is super simple as long as there is room.

biggest thing is to play around on a link calculator to see the differences some changes will make. then pull some real world numbers on your rig, put them in the calculator, then its on paper. measure 20 times, then execute. Pirate4x4 is your best resource for this.

a few years ago i personally instigated a new section on this forum. this was a huge debacle at the time, lots of crap talk floated around from it. i put a huge amount of time into a couple posts to start in depth discussion about linking my samurai. links, pics, calc how to. if it still exists in the server, maybe jim could dig it back up.


research, research, research, research, research, research, research, research, research, research, research, research!!!!!!!


here is a place to start

-http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/168577-link-suspensions-dummies.html

-http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/7503-god-suspension-those-you-who-dont-know.html

-http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/204893-new-version-my-4-link-analyzer-request-help.html

[Haku]

You can check my custom 4 link setup in my rig that I have a build thread up here... http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?19821-Haku-s-quot-Blue-Rock-Magnet-quot-Toyota-Pickup-Crawler-build

I disagree that a 3 link w/panhard is easier to package. Most rigs have a major lack of space for panhard when you are trying to fit steering and everything in the same area. I guess it is a bit easier with a rig that already has that stuff like the XJ does, but for the front there is just a lot of stuff you have to get around that might involve bending the panhard and such(which is more complicated and also weakens it). Generally, if you can fit the upper link of a 3 link, you can also fit one on the other side as well to make it a 4 link. The hardest part of packaging a 4 link is generally the oil pan, but its I didn't find it overly complicated to solve that by just keeping the upper mounts on the axle far enough apart.

The main thing you have to think about when weighing the 3 link vs. 4 link is how you want to do the steering. A 4 link doesn't play well with a mechanical linkage i.e. steering box with a drag link, so its pretty much a requirement to go with Full Hydro or one of the more creative and obscure push pull systems. If you keep a traditional drag link steering setup with the 4 link, as it flexes out it will steer the tires without turning the wheel due to how the axle rotates differently. If you do a 3 link with panhard and set the drag link at the same level, as the axle flexes and droops it follows the same path as the drag link so it won't bump steer/self steer.

I've seen good setups using both styles of link system. I prefer the 4 link since it is simpler and locks the axle in without needing the panhard. The axle also stays under the rig fully, whereas with a panhard the axle will have some side to side travel. You can design some of this out of the system if you have the room, but it can be hard to achieve that. Something like Shannon Cambell's rig is designed from the ground up to use the 3 link and he didn't have to make any compromises with the body of the vehicle. The only real reason I see to do a 3 link in the rear is so you don't have to relocate a gas tank or something like that (Toyota's have their tank that hugs the passenger side frame rail but the drivers side is wide open). If you look at 90% of the tube buggies out there, they have 4 link front and rear.

So I guess the decision you have to make is whether you are willing to do Full Hydro steering or not. It is great, strong and works awesome, but it lacks the redundancy of the mechanical linkage. This leads many to stay away from it in a vehicle that they plan on driving on surface roads often or for long distance. Essentially, if a hose breaks you completely loose control of your vehicle. With proper hose routing and quality materials and fittings its a calculated risk, but still a risk. Most quality Full Hydro setups work great at speed though (lots of KOH rigs speed across the desert with them).

I would say you need to read everything you can find on it and fully understand what it will take. Having done one and still yet to finish all the little support offshoots involved with it, you will find lots of things that need to be changed when you do a custom suspension. I thought my project was going to be a 2-3 month project, and I'm 2 years in now. Granted, I'm not the fastest doing this and there are plenty of builds that take a lot less time, but if its your first build like this there are going to be surprises no matter what. Its not rocket science though, and most anyone who can cut metal and weld confidently should be able to manage it with some planning and forethought. I can't emphasize enough that you should READ READ READ until you fully understand how these suspensions work.

All of this said, I'm fully for doing stuff yourself, but there are also some great options for suspension upgrades for the ZJ, and you aren't going to be far off in price or performance by going with a decent long arm kit in the front and maybe a custom setup in the rear if you can't find a link upgrade for it. Also, the unibody chassis of the ZJ will add complication as well, and you'll likely need to add some plating and such. I would maybe try to go have a look at Matt Parker's ZJ to see how far you can really take it and see what you'll have to change. He spent a bunch of money on it (having other people/shops do most of the work), so it was done by an experienced hand. I also recommend considering the rule of three's, that being that however much you think its gonna cost to get it done, triple it, and however long you think its gonna take, triple that too. If you can't deal with your rig being down for 6 months or longer, then its not a good way to go.

Ok, I'll leave it there for now, but I'll say again READ READ READ! Pirate is a great place to learn about this stuff once you filter out the BS, so go spend some time over there going through the various "link build" threads.

[colozj93]

full hydro is a certain thing. I took a look at your build and I like the set up. I am thinking something similar except I want a little more hight and I want to keep more of a stock body line with the fenders. ( I know I have to cut) but I don't want to cut as much. I have the room to do either I am just more partial to the 4 link and I have been reading a number of things looked at a handful of rigs and am sure this is the way I want to go I already figured this would not be a fast build I want it right and I know there are a number of options for long arms and suspension upgrades but I want this to be my rig I want to have my hands on every inch of the build and I also know that to get the use and performance I personally want out of it that an out of the box kit wont work. I have a set of d60s to go under it and I also know with its going to need several lbs of fram support. If you could PM me haku I would like to talk about some of the tips and tricks to the unknown as far as complecations you had to over come to build yours