Fab9 portal swap and a Cummins 4BT grafting.

[Landmissile]

Recently joined the forum and thought I would share my build. The project has been underway for a about a year. A couple of deployments slowed it down a bit but I've made great progress.

I haven't been photo cataloging as well as I probably should have but I'll do better in the future.

It's a 1993 Jeep ZJ Grand Cherokee that I bought from my father in 2005. I really had no intent to do anything with it due to my constant traveling back and forth to A-stan. At some point I got the wheeling bug and discovered there were a small handful of companies providing bolt on lift kits for the ZJ's. I first bumped it up to 6 inches with a Rusty's Off Road long arm kit. Trail Ready bumpers front and rear as well as their Beadlook wheels on 35 inch Thornbirds(33 actual). As it turns out Thornbirds aren't nearly as great as they look so I sold them for a set of 35" Destination MT's. I also added a couple inches to the lift. When the Jeep rolled into the garage for the tear down it was sitting on approximately 8 and 10 inches.

First shot is shortly after I moved to CO and mounted the GenRight swing down tire carrier. Second pic is on Trough Trail shortly before the tear down.

[Landmissile]

First order of business was pulling the original engine, transmission and t-case since they had to come out anyway. Engine had over 300K on the odometer and likely had some life left but I opted to scrap it instead of selling it. POS transmission was due for its third rebuild and it gave me a headache just looking at it. The NP231 t-case was a conversion from the original 249 but it was beginning to purge oil and I didn't feel like rebuilding it. Everything went to the scrapper in exchange for some beer money and the ZJ weighed less for the effort.

[Landmissile]

Now for the good bits. Here's some shots the day after the axles were dropped off. I bought them used from John at Stazworks. The 16.5 rims were included in the sale. I didn't realized it at the time but there was a giant pile of manual labor hiding in those axles. Air lockers front and rear. I'm planning to sell the rear 3rd member with the air locker. I already have a Detroit truetrac for the rear just need to pick up a new housing and get it built.

Since the diffs are flipped oil starvation is a serious issue. I decided to run a pair of scavenger pumps externally. I'll get back to that later.

I'll be running 39.5 IROK's on the split rims. Primarily for trail use. Don't really want to burn them up on the street. I have a second set of standard wheels with a 40" military commercial grade tire for daily driving use.

[dscowell]

Portal axles? SWEET!:thumb:

[Landmissile]

Moving right along... to the Cummins 4BT and its accoutrements.

I purchased the engine from a Cummins dealer in Utah with around 3000 miles on it. It's a VE pump, non-intercooler model and reputed to get better then 30mpg with the right setup. I've added a few simple bolt on parts but the engine is stock and will likely stay that way. Once I start actually shoehorning the engine in I'll get into more detail with it.

They were kind enough to get me curb side delivery. It was awesome seeing the big rig in the neighborhood.

It's hard as hell trying to get pics of the engine for the record. Looks like they dipped it in high gloss black paint. Not even light can escape it.

[Landmissile]

Portal axles? SWEET!

The portal axles are really the meat and potatoes of the whole build. I've been wanting portals for as long as I've known about them. I've looked into the unimog options but they have a list of issues that weren't going to work for me. I was planning a portal axle build using the H1 geared hubs on D44's. As I was sourcing parts I crossed paths with John at Stazworks and he told me about the set he was selling. They were pulled from a Ranger so the width and everything was perfect. I couldn't pass them up.

The Cummins was a last second decision really. I was planning a stroker kit for the I6 but the numbers showed the "small" Cummins was a better choice.

[Landmissile]

Mating a transmission to the 4BT is painless thanks to PATC. I decided to run their 700 Raptor transmission and utilize their adapter plate, flex plate and low stall torque converter for the package deal. Their adapter plate uses a Ford truck starter. There was a small amount of contact between the starter and a bit of engine block casting. An angle grinder made short work of it and it seated as it should.

[Landmissile]

I wasn't sure a chain drive t-case would last very long behind the 4BT considering the 231 reached it's service life prematurely sitting behind the I6. I decided to bump up to an atlas t-case or equivalent gear driven t-case. The fabricated rear axle doesn't have an emergency brake and that was mandatory so I decided on STak-Up Marketing's Monster Box. It's the two speed option with the disc brake e-brake and a 4.29:1 crawl ratio. I was pushing for their Mini Monster but after a brief phone conversation with STaK I decided on the full size box.

I believe STaK builds to order and they had my t-case shipped fairly quickly. Inside of a month I believe. Really well built and quite a bit bigger dimensionally. The monster box weighs almost as much as the transmission. The dimensions forced me to build a whole new cross member just to make room for the t-case. More on that later.

I added a shot of the monster box next to the old 231 t-case. Very big difference... no pun intended.

[Atl-atl]

This build is :eek: I would gladly hang out and take the pictures you aren't getting to, just to see this thing get built in person!

[Popsgarage]

but the numbers showed the "small" Cummins was a better choice.

You got that right. And, done right, way better fuel mileage.

[JFjeld]

Wow, this thing is a beast. Subbed. I helped a friend remove a Stak from his TJ for some maintenance; those things are unreal and bulletproof.

[Landmissile]

This build is I would gladly hang out and take the pictures you aren't getting to, just to see this thing get built in person!

:lmao: Right on. That's not a bad offer even if it is in jest. It never occurred to me to have someone else take the pictures. I've been the lone soldier on this build but I really have no excuse for not getting some pics as I'm assembling everything. I was all about it when I started on the rear axle and suspension. After that I realized what I had gotten myself into. I started getting target fixated on completion and the picture taking stopped.

[Landmissile]

You got that right. And, done right, way better fuel mileage.

No doubt about that. The I6 I pulled out of the Jeep was getting me 23mpg which is nothing to sneeze at considering the 35's and a big lift. I'm anticipating just over 30mpg with the 4BT without the 3 stage meth injection. The meth injection kit is in a box in the other room... quietly waiting.

[Landmissile]

Wow, this thing is a beast. Subbed. I helped a friend remove a Stak from his TJ for some maintenance; those things are unreal and bulletproof.

Right?! They actually might be bullet proof. I've always joked that if my Jeep ever caught an IED that they could identify me by the Stak t-case that would still be intact. They're not giving them away but the peace of mind knowing it can take whatever I throw at it is worth the extra coin.

[Landmissile]

I started with the rear suspension to warm up and also to try to remember how to use a welder. I don't weld for a living and never have so I knew there would be some trial and error. I also knew the front suspension was going to be more of a challenge since I was converting the front to coilover shocks. When I started pulling the stock axle I still wasn't fully settled on how I wanted to build the front.

The rear axle was staying on coils and that seemed easy enough so that's where I started. I gave a lot of thought on how I wanted to set up the long arm control arms. I finally settled on a four link with triangulated upper arms and a quick disconnect panhard. I stayed with 2" tubes but bumped up to 1/4" walls. The ZJ already had Rusty's rear long arm kit and I liked the frame side brackets that bolted through the frame. The only issue was the original lower control arm(LCA) lined up almost exactly with the frame. The LCA brackets on the portal axle are mounted at the face of the inner C, outboard of the frame. That was enough offset to cause binding issues when the axle cycled.

I decided to unbolt the frame side brackets and flip them. What was previously the upper control arm(UCA) slot inboard of the frame became the LCA slot outboard of the frame. That gave much better alignment from the axle to the frame with just a degree or two of offset. With the brackets flipped that gave a large smooth face of 1/4" plate to weld the new angled UCA brackets directly onto. I sourced the angled brackets from Ballistic fab. I went with the 22.5 deg brackets which is good but I decided to stretch the rear axle back 6 inches for tire clearance. The longer arms meant an adjusted angle. There's no contact between the rod end and bracket but it is close.

I opted for Ballistic's adjustable four link bracket for the axle's UCA brackets. A simple plate and box bridge welded directly to the Fab9 housing dialed it in. That also gave me the twelve inches of vertical separation I needed between the UCA and LCA.

Another issue presented itself that was relatively easy to resolve but I'm not sure I'm 100% happy with it. The rear axle was once a steerable rear. I didn't feel like messing with rear steer so I didn't. However... the inner C's for the portal axle are large and soak up a lot of tube, tube I needed to mount the lower spring buckets. The original upper spring seats are directly in line with the upper face of the inner C's. I decided to mount the spring buckets just inside of the inner C's which put the upper seats right at the frame rail. More brackets from Ballistic made short work of it. The jury is still out on that one though. We'll see how it goes.

I'm sure some of you did a double take when I mentioned the quick disconnect panhard. I knew that by increasing the length of the control arms and decreasing the angle of the uppers the rear end wouldn't be as stable as I would like. Since this rig is going to be a daily driver and likely see some light towing I wanted the rear to be rock solid. I decided to put together a rear panhard using 1.5" tube and 3/4" heims. I shaved the OEM panhard bracket from the frame and replaced it with an upgrade from Ballistic, relocated for the new wheel base. Another bracket at the axle, just inside of the coil bucket locked it in. Home Depot has an assortment of hitch pins. I grabbed a pair of 3/4" hitch pins and cut them down to length. Drilled them for cross pins and it's right as rain. It looks good and the "shove the vehicle from the side" test says it'll get the job done.

Here's some pictures. I'm sure I missed a couple minor details but this should keep you guys satiated.

[Landmissile]

A few things I forgot to mention. Since I refuse to own an Ed Hardy hat or shirt and plan to actually use this rig off road I had to shorten the suspension a few inches. The portal axles lift the vehicle about 4.5 inches. That paired with an 8 and 10 inch lift would have turned the rig into a brodozer, babies would start to cry and some angels would lose their wings. Not to mention it wouldn't fit in the garage anymore. By my best calculations and a lot of time thinking about it on the toilet I'm putting the total lift at around 10 and 12 inches.

I did decide on a Currie anti-rock swaybar for the rear. I never ran a swaybar in the rear before but I thought it would be a good idea considering the height of the rig. I've never messed with off road swaybars before so we'll see how that goes. It actually took me a lot longer then I thought it should have to install it in exactly the right spot. Garage cycling gives the install a thumbs up so I'm rolling with it.

Due to the fact that I shortened the suspension my fairly recently purchased fox shocks were now to long. Not wanting to buy more new shocks I realized there was an opportunity to have a sweet triangulated rear shock setup. I didn't give the physics of triangulated shocks much thought, just made sure the compression didn't interfere with the up travel of the rear axle and burned them in. Not to mention the CDI factor is pretty much off the charts with this mod.

A few more pics...

[Funrover]

Absolute awesome!! Love this build!

[88Toy]

This thing is off the hook!!! What's your R&P ratios and is there a reduction in the outers?

[Landmissile]

Absolute awesome!! Love this build!

Appreciate it. It has been a great project just a ton of work and a fair amount of stress.

[Landmissile]

What's your R&P ratios and is there a reduction in the outers?

Thanks. Believe it or not I'm starting out with 2.47's at the axles. Shortest gears that I know of for the Ford 9". If I remember correctly the H1 geared hubs are 1.91, but it could be 1.92. The final ratio is 4.74'ish. It's been a while since I've thought about it. According to the calculators that will give a top cruising speed of 80mph +/-. The low rpm red line of the 4BT changes the game a bit. I'm applying some wishful thinking to the low final ratio being compensated for by the considerably greater torque from the Cummins. I can always go taller if it doesn't play out according to the math and the third member differential makes regearing a breeze.

[Atl-atl]

Unreal! If that's your ride height I don't think your goal of fitting in the garage is going to be met.

p.s. if you notice a white Ram or Black VW creepin around your neighborhood its me trying to see this thing in real life! :thumb:

[Landmissile]

Unreal! If that's your ride height I don't think your goal of fitting in the garage is going to be met.

Actually it fits. Even with the slightly taller Military tires fully inflated. I would have bet money the garage door couldn't be opened but it fits like a glove with the door open. Rolling in and out is a very different thing though. I'm fortunate to have a sloped driveway that starts right at the garage door. I have to deflate the rear tires at a minimum and it just slides out no contact. If I also deflate the front tires it rolls through with no issues. Obviously it won't be in the garage once it's driving again. That would be a huge pain in the arse messing with tires all the time. At some point we will be moving to the hills and away from the front range area. For one because it's nicer, two I don't have to sweat the emissions drama that is headed my way with this thing and three, I can get a shop with a tall enough garage door that it won't matter any more. That's the plan anyway.

Your more then welcome to swing by any time I'm home wrenching on it, you don't have to stalk me. LOL I like most ciders and I don't mind Coors. Just don't bring PBR. I wouldn't wash my car with that nasty crap.

[Rick]

Your more then welcome to swing by any time I'm home wrenching on it, you don't have to stalk me. LOL I like most ciders and I don't mind Coors. Just don't bring PBR. I wouldn't wash my car with that nasty crap.Careful!!!! a lot of us may show up:D

[Landmissile]

Careful!!!! a lot of us may show up

:lmao: Honestly I wouldn't mind. My neighbors are probably already wondering if I'm out of my mind. When a bunch of folks in lifted vehicles start piling in that will pretty much secure any doubts. Most of the people I talk to about the project don't really know much if anything about the hobby, sport or industry. I would never turn away like minded individuals for a more advanced conversation. Talking about it helps me remember what I've done to. I've also had a few light bulbs go off talking about something I was having trouble sorting out.

[Rick]

My neighbors are probably already wondering if I'm out of my mind.

Most of the people I talk to about the project don't really know much if anything about the hobby, sport or industry.Oh I do understand......They dont get it

[Landmissile]

Oh I do understand......They dont get it

LOL... Touche.

[Haku]

This is a sweet build and those Portals are definitely the coolest part. I'm guessing its going to be significantly taller then when it started, but no craziliy so, and that extra height should be worth it for the extra clearance you get. I think I remember seeing the build of those axles on Pirate or somewhere (or ones very similar) and thought it was VERY cool. Glad you scored those. That Cummins is really cool too, and I look forward to seeing that too.





...I'm sure some of you did a double take when I mentioned the quick disconnect panhard.

:hibye:

I'm still a bit skeptical since a triangulated 4 link doesn't travel in the same path as a parallel 4 link or 3 link that uses a Panhard. You'll definitely get some bind and they will most likely fight each other, but I'm not sure how much that will come into play on the streets. Seems to me, if you are worried about it having a lot of roll, some beefy sway bars with disconnects would be a better route. Everything else looks great though and should do the job nicely. If you are REALLY worried about the oiling issue, you could always go with a the True Hi 9 housing and swap your internals over, which wouldn't be crazy expensive and would take the complexity of the lifter pump out of the equation.

Looking good man. Keep it up, I need to get motivated like you and get my stuff done.

I think Matt Parker is about to lose the "Colorado's Biggest ZJ" trophy when this is finished :p

[Rick]

I think Matt Parker is about to lose the "Colorado's Biggest ZJ" trophy when this is finished :POH DAMN!!!!!!here it comes,wait for it, Wait for it!!!!! Matt will definitely reply to this...... This will be a good thing

[Haku]

Due to the fact that I shortened the suspension my fairly recently purchased fox shocks were now to long. Not wanting to buy more new shocks I realized there was an opportunity to have a sweet triangulated rear shock setup. I didn't give the physics of triangulated shocks much thought, just made sure the compression didn't interfere with the up travel of the rear axle and burned them in. Not to mention the CDI factor is pretty much off the charts with this mod.

A few more pics...

Having the shocks triangulated like that will increase the force on them, so they'll feel like they aren't quite as stiff as if they were straight up and down. It isn't really a problem, but you might get some more body roll. The Anti-Rock swaybars will help with that though, and the cool thing about those Fox Shocks (any performance shock for that matter) is that you can have them custom re-valved stiffer with relative ease. You could probably even do it yourself, as its just as simple as depressurizing them, taking the end off, pulling the shock shaft out, measure the valve shims and add thicker ones and put it all back together. Chances are you'll be happy right out of the box though.

[Rick]

I think Matt Parker is about to lose the "Colorado's Biggest ZJ" trophy when this is finishedJust sayin Matt...........:D

[ctracy5]

This thing is gonna be a monster when it is done can't wait! Good work.

[zukrider]

I like it!

[Landmissile]

I'm guessing its going to be significantly taller then when it started

When I pulled the trigger on the portal axles I knew there was potential for the rig to be way too tall. It's been my plan to keep it as low as possible within reason. I was willing to do some heavy fender trimming but I really wanted to hold on to as much of the body as possible. That's the primary motivation behind moving the rear axle back so much. I don't have to cut any of the rear fender just had to massage the bumper a bit with my angle grinder. I'm really happy with the new location and it looks great. Still within the body lines... mostly.


I'm still a bit skeptical since a triangulated 4 link doesn't travel in the same path as a parallel 4 link or 3 link that uses a Panhard.

You're right about that. Generally that would be the case and there would be interference. I've worked with a number of rigs with either a three link or triangulated four link and they were all very solid in the rear. My rear arms are really long and the angle on the uppers is way more shallow then I would have liked. I made a decision and had to adjust accordingly. Without the panhard the rear is a little loose. It would likely be fine for surface street driving but higher speeds or towing might make it a little scary to drive. To be honest I'm not even sure it's solid enough for aggressive off road use without causing excessive stress on the brackets. Once I have the spare sitting on the bumper and everything is bolted in I'll be able to follow up on it with a more informed decision.

[Landmissile]

Having the shocks triangulated like that will increase the force on them, so they'll feel like they aren't quite as stiff as if they were straight up and down. It isn't really a problem, but you might get some more body roll. The Anti-Rock swaybars will help with that though, and the cool thing about those Fox Shocks (any performance shock for that matter) is that you can have them custom re-valved stiffer with relative ease. You could probably even do it yourself, as its just as simple as depressurizing them, taking the end off, pulling the shock shaft out, measure the valve shims and add thicker ones and put it all back together. Chances are you'll be happy right out of the box though.

I may not have considered the physics but I did consider the geometry. I knew there would be less feedback but I never would have thought to re-valve them so I'll file that away. If I had decided against the Antirock swaybar I likely would have gone a different route with the shocks. I have a pair of the same shocks in a slightly shorter length but I was having a sudden attack of artisticness so I went with the triangulated look. I'm confident the addition of the swaybar will give a pretty good ride on the street and keep it nimble on the trail.

[Landmissile]

OH DAMN!!!!!!here it comes,wait for it, Wait for it!!!!! Matt will definitely reply to this...... This will be a good thing

LOL... :erm: Not trying to step on any toes here just doing my thing. Trough Trail was a bit of an eye opener for me. I don't necessarily want it to be bigger just more capable for the stuff I want to drive over. Usually that requires going bigger at some level so that's what I'm doing.

[Landmissile]

This thing is gonna be a monster when it is done can't wait! Good work.

I like it!

Appreciate it.

[Haku]

You're right about that. Generally that would be the case and there would be interference. I've worked with a number of rigs with either a three link or triangulated four link and they were all very solid in the rear. My rear arms are really long and the angle on the uppers is way more shallow then I would have liked. I made a decision and had to adjust accordingly. Without the panhard the rear is a little loose. It would likely be fine for surface street driving but higher speeds or towing might make it a little scary to drive. To be honest I'm not even sure it's solid enough for aggressive off road use without causing excessive stress on the brackets. Once I have the spare sitting on the bumper and everything is bolted in I'll be able to follow up on it with a more informed decision.

At the risk of coming off as telling you what you should do, know that its not my intention to do so and that I only offer this as advice after doing way too much research on this for my own build. I enjoy the discussion about it and providing feedback, so know that none of this is me saying you are going about it wrong.

I guess I would just keep an eye on it. The situation I personally would be the most worried about stuff binding up on you is when you are offroad and its under a lot of articulation. With a triangulated 4 link, the axle pivots around its center and always stays center as it travels up and down. In other words, the links lock the side to side movement. Introducing a Panhard to this system will make the axle want to move side to side slightly as it travels, so the Triangulated links and the Pahhard will be fighting each other. I'm not trying to effect your design decisions too much, but you may consider making it one upper link and making it and the panhard super beefy and dispensing with the 4 link altogether and into a true 3 link with Panhard setup. At the very least, make that panhard as long and flat at ride height as possible, which will limit the side to side movement of the axle. I just see combining aspects of both types as possibly coming back to bite you.


I may not have considered the physics but I did consider the geometry. I knew there would be less feedback but I never would have thought to re-valve them so I'll file that away. If I had decided against the Antirock swaybar I likely would have gone a different route with the shocks. I have a pair of the same shocks in a slightly shorter length but I was having a sudden attack of artisticness so I went with the triangulated look. I'm confident the addition of the sway bar will give a pretty good ride on the street and keep it nimble on the trail.

I recommend reading this whole tech post on Pirate to get the full idea of what is happening with having them triangulated from a Physics standpoint... http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/coilovers/Part_1/

It is called the Coilover Bible, but it has stuff that pertains to seperate spring and shock systems too. It is mostly theory in there and uses lots of equations, so if you aren't into that kind of stuff then it probably isn't going to be worth it. The essential idea is that by having it mounted at an angle like that, the shock shaft doesn't travel at the same rate as the wheels going up and down. Since shocks work by a piston moving through (and being restricted by) oil, since the shaft travel is both less and slower, it will more easily move through the oil and there will be less resistance. To counter that, you have to add more resistance i.e. add thicker shims or a shock piston with smaller holes or thicker shock oil. Like I said, it will just make it feel a bit softer and the body roll may be more pronounced compared to if they were straight up and down, but not in such a huge way that its worth starting over or anything.

If you decide you do want to change the valving, then the Coilover Bible Part 2 is all about the hands on aspect of this shocks and springs and provides a step by step process of making changes ... http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/coilovers/Part_2/

Lastly, not sure how much you have messed with the Link Calculator at all, but if you'd like to do some measurements I could input those and give you at least a rough approximation of how the rig might handle as far as body roll, understeer vs. oversteer and what the anti-squat numbers look like (that might sound like gibberish...I can explain further if you like).

[The StRanger]

One of my Friends..

[Landmissile]

At the risk of coming off as telling you what you should do, know that its not my intention to do so and that I only offer this as advice

I appreciate the feedback and I don't believe you have any ill intent. It's what the forums are for, sharing ideas. Can't say that for everyone I guess but a good majority at least. I would like to put your mind at ease by saying that I am very much aware of the potential for catastrophic failure with that combination. Had I made certain decisions in a different order the rear would have turned out differently. If the rear stays as it is by the time it's moving under its own power I can guarantee the panhard will be disconnected on anything more aggressive then a well maintained dirt road. The rear panhard is actually easier to disconnect then the front swaybar's QD's.

When the panhard is disconnected the rear end is not locked in. I can't drive it on the street if I can't keep it in my lane. If this were a dedicated trail rig I would already be done... with the whole build. The QD panhard was a quick simple answer with possible long term intent. Going to a three link is an option I've considered. I'm also considering going back to a non-triangulated four link with a panhard. I also have plenty of room to swap in a longer frame side panhard bracket to flatten it out a bit. I still have to pile on 200lbs or so to the rear bumper so I'm not going to make any more major changes until I can see how everything sits once it's weighted. As it sits right now the panhard makes it easier to center the axle when it's sitting in the garage.

[Landmissile]

One of my Friends..

That unimog is tough. Only needs a little more work on the bed. I almost bought a unimog when I lived in South Africa. I went with an old FJ instead.

[carpenle]

Wow is all I can say! Great build

[Landmissile]

Wow is all I can say! Great build

Thank you. I'm all out of photos so after this weekend I'll get some fresh pics of what I'm currently working on and touch on some of the other things I've already finished.

[Landmissile]

Here's something to add. I have wanted an "under hood" welder for a really long time. I finally dropped the coin for a Premier Power Welder. It's also my new charging system. I mounted the control box in a convenient cubby in the right rear body panel. I relocated the batteries under the right rear passenger seat. The device next the control box is a flush mount military slave receptacle that is frenched into the body panel. I have one up front as well. I use them for jumping and to power the cradle mount winch.

[88Toy]

I almost bought a unimog when I lived in South Africa. I went with an old FJ instead.

Any good wheeling there?

[Landmissile]

Any good wheeling there?

There's definitely good wheeling in ZA. When I lived there they had a version of a tough truck challenge that was run on a pseudo closed course. Don't remember what they called it. I lived in Graaff Reinet for most of my time there and the Karoo had tons of places to play. Unfortunately I didn't get to wheel the FJ at all. Decent tires were hard to source at the time or really expensive. One of my ex's cousins had an old HiLux that we would take out and bash around.

The people there are so freakin friendly it's unbelievable. If there was a trail or rock garden you wanted to try that was on private property just swing by the owner's house and ask for access. They might ask what it was you were trying to do but they were usually all about it. Might even come watch. The ex's family repaired and maintained irrigation pumps for a bunch of farms out there and had the keys to a lot of locked fences. As long as you don't mess with the animals or cause any serious damage to the property they didn't care. So much terrain so little time.

[Java]

Best ZJ build I've ever seen, by far. Nice to see something more interesting than the standard 14 bolt / dana 60 / coilovers! :thumb: I run Truetracs in both of my axles and love them, but my build is on the mild side compared to yours. I'm curious why you're not running the ARB instead of the Truetrac?

[Landmissile]

Best ZJ build I've ever seen, by far. Nice to see something more interesting than the standard 14 bolt / dana 60 / coilovers! I run Truetracs in both of my axles and love them, but my build is on the mild side compared to yours. I'm curious why you're not running the ARB instead of the Truetrac?

Appreciate that. Both axles came with air lockers and I plan to sell the rear locker with the 3rd. The Jeep is going to be a daily driver so I want the best possible traction on all surfaces including icy roads. When I lived in Alaska I had an older XJ with lunchbox lockers front and rear. Any time they would lock on the ice it made it worse. When I bought the OX Locker for the front D30 I decided to go with a quality LSD in the rear so there wasn't any winter driving drama. I was worried I would lose some advantage on the trail but the Truetrac has really performed. I never had any noticeable traction issues while wheeling. With the front open and a LSD in the rear winter driving is a breeze. I like that the Truetrac uses 90wt gear oil also, no transmission fluid or anything exotic. I suspect the Truetrac also helped prevent any catastrophic failures while wheeling the D35 as well.

The combination works so well for me that I already knew I would be running a selectable locker in the front and the Truetrac in the rear. It isn't even a decision now.

[Landmissile]

As I mentioned previously I'm oiling the diffs remotely with scavenger pumps. I mounted the pumps under the left rear passenger seat. Bulkhead mount fittings pass the lines through the floor. Pulling oil from the diff sump is fairly straight forward. I have a plan for the return but I want to talk to my "guy" before I commit to anything.

[Atl-atl]

As I mentioned previously I'm oiling the diffs remotely with scavenger pumps. I mounted the pumps under the left rear passenger seat. Bulkhead mount fittings pass the lines through the floor. Pulling oil from the diff sump is fairly straight forward. I have a plan for the return but I want to talk to my "guy" before I commit to anything.

Is this something that normally has to be done for portals or are you going overboard with the oiling just cause this whole build is overboard??? :p

[Landmissile]

Is this something that normally has to be done for portals or are you going overboard with the oiling just cause this whole build is overboard???

Unfortunately it's needed. The H1 portal hubs only have two gears. If the diff is in its normal "low pinion" position the vehicle would drive in reverse even though the transmission is in drive. To resolve that the diff is flipped to a "high pinion" position. It's basically running in reverse rotation and the hubs correct it. Since the diff isn't intended to operate that way there aren't any internal provisions to oil the pinion bearings. There's a handful of ways people keep everything lubricated. The most crude is over filling the diff which is fine but you better have a large catch can if you're planning to drive on the road with any regularity. I've seen a lot of guys weld paddles to the various moving parts that will allow it. The intent being to splash the oil in a favorable way. Another option is forced oiling. That's the one I went with. You have to have a quality pump that can move cold and really hot gear oil with no issues. I decided on a pump from RB Racing(http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/index.htm). They use them to oil turbos on land speed motorcycles and drag bikes. The pump head is all metal. The entire pump is really well built.

[Landmissile]

As I had mentioned previously the new STaK t-case is massive. It's so much larger then the factory t-case that it wasn't going to fit between the floorboard and the long arm cross member. Cutting the floor isn't an option currently so I had to make room for it in the other direction.

GenRight has a couple different universal cross-member options. Since I needed more room I ordered a couple drop cross-member kits. Their cross-member is a 1.5in tube and I felt that one might not be enough since this rig is going to see a lot of street use. Safety is a priority. I tied the two cross-members together with 1/4in plate in a pseudo skeletonized box. A couple link brackets from Ballistic Fab, trimmed for the best possible clearance ties the lower control arms to the axle in a semi triangulated arrangement. The frame side tabs are welded to the Rusty's cross-member bracketry that was previously installed. The new cross member is really locked in. For the sake of redundancy and S&G's I'm going to bridge the cross member to the rear frame side control arm brackets using the now empty rear LCA slots. The real intent is to provide a slider to prevent large obstacles from getting between the brackets since they're extended below the frame rails. Bridging them should also help reduce any play that may still exist.

For the single radius arm I'm using a frame side bracket from Ballistic. Welding to the thin frame rails on the ZJ is scary business especially if you're not an experienced welder which I'm not. I decided to stitch the cross-member's sandwich plate to the inside of the frame. The radius arm bracket overlaps the sandwich plate slightly so I trimmed it appropriately and welded it to the inside and bottom of the frame as well as to the sandwich plate itself. I also added small gussets from the radius arm bracket to the sandwich plate. Additionally, I welded a custom cut plate to the top of the radius arm bracket that allows the bracket to be bolted through the floor adjacent to the drivers right foot, which is supported by a sandwich plate in the interior.

One day after I finish this build I may revisit the cross-member. I don't really like how low it hangs. Cutting the floor to make room for the cross member will effect the driver's seat brackets and require a bunch of downstream fabrication. For now though it should work great. After skid and bash plates are installed the low cross-member may not be that big of an issue so I'll have to play it off the cuff.

[88Toy]

The pictures just aren't doing this build justice. How much ground clearance is there under the cross member? And what's up with those knobby tires in the background?

[Landmissile]

The pictures just aren't doing this build justice. How much ground clearance is there under the cross member? And what's up with those knobby tires in the background?

That's a good question. I've honestly never measured there. I'll have to measure it when I get home tomorrow. As for the knobs. The front set is my buddies Yamaha 450 trail bike. There's a partial front tire showing in one picture. That's my KLX650R adventure bike/desert racer/supermoto track bike. A couple pics for S&G's. First one is an older picture before the dual exhaust upgrade.

[88Toy]

Very cool.

[Landmissile]

How much ground clearance is there under the cross member?

Just pulled a quick measurement. Looks like the cross-member is at 26 inches. I'll likely loose an inch or so once the engine, drive train and spare on it. After I get the suspension dialed in.

[Popsgarage]

Pretty dang good distance for as much as the t-case mount hangs down.

[Landmissile]

Pretty dang good distance for as much as the t-case mount hangs down.

Yeah... That is a good amount clearance. Guess it just seems like it hangs down a lot.

[Atl-atl]

Isn't 25" clearance belly to ground the optimal number that Toyota guys strive for?

[Landmissile]

Isn't 25" clearance belly to ground the optimal number that Toyota guys strive for?

LOL... I don't know. Are you being serious or making a joke? I didn't know there was a target number other then as much as reasonably possible.

[Atl-atl]

LOL... I don't know. Are you being serious or making a joke? I didn't know there was a target number other then as much as reasonably possible.

Hah, I was actually being serious. Thought I remembered reading that in the past, maybe times have changed. Something to do with the best combination of center of gravity and ground clearance.

[Landmissile]

Something to do with the best combination of center of gravity and ground clearance.

I'm tracking. That makes sense I guess.

[Haku]

Isn't 25" clearance belly to ground the optimal number that Toyota guys strive for?

Depends on who you talk to really. Most Toyota guys I know measure off the bottom of the frame and go for 20-24" to the frame. More then that and it looks like its on stilts and gets tippy. If you do it right, you can get a flat belly with nothing hanging bellow the frame (10 degree clocked t-case or cutting the tranny tunnel out and raising the whole t-case). I know when I took my Toyota from 26-28" to the frame and dropped it 4-6", it felt a ton more stable in off camber situations.

So I would say that, and this goes for any rig really, its great to have the drivetrain tucked as high as possible but only as high as you need it not to drag on stuff. No use going 6" above the frame or anything if you don't have to since it will just move weight up and hence the CG. With a link suspension, in my experience it seems like the link crossmembers are typically the lowest hanging fruit if the geometry is in the right ballpark, so having a t-case or something hanging a bit lower isn't gonna make a big difference.

[Landmissile]

So I would say that, and this goes for any rig really, its great to have the drivetrain tucked as high as possible but only as high as you need it not to drag on stuff.

Yeah... if it weren't for the larger dimensions of the t-case it would be tucked a little more. For now though I think it will work great.

[Landmissile]

Finally rolled the Ole ZJ out of the garage again. I shortened the UCA and LCA's a few inches and moved the lower shock mounts forward about 2 inches. Finished the front track bar and brackets. Also finished the trailing arm and it's tie rod bracket. I did discover last night that it won't turn full lock to driver. The axle was originally built for full hydraulic so the steering arms don't extend very far forward of the diff housing. The tie rod is hitting the front of the diff housing limiting travel to the driver side. It's steerable but it has a turning radius like my girlfriend's FX35. LOL

All in all I think it looks good. I'm happy with the front geometry. The tie rod and track bar are line up nicely. Bringing the front axle back a couple inches was a good move too. Still have a few small things to address on the front but it's pretty much done.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af337/rcscottdiesel/IMG_20131219_093402_zps1e3df1c0.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/rcscottdiesel/media/IMG_20131219_093402_zps1e3df1c0.jpg.html)

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af337/rcscottdiesel/IMG_20131219_093509_zpsd46f5e33.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/rcscottdiesel/media/IMG_20131219_093509_zpsd46f5e33.jpg.html)

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af337/rcscottdiesel/IMG_20131219_094528_zps29b43d7a.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/rcscottdiesel/media/IMG_20131219_094528_zps29b43d7a.jpg.html)

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af337/rcscottdiesel/IMG_20131219_094541_zpsa65750a7.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/rcscottdiesel/media/IMG_20131219_094541_zpsa65750a7.jpg.html)

[Atl-atl]

Holy ground clearance under the diffs! :thumb:

[Landmissile]

Holy ground clearance under the diffs!

LOL... Yeah, there's a lot of room under the diffs. I think it's right around 18 inches to the bottom of the diff.

[ctracy5]

That thing is a Beast hopefully it will be back on the trails this spring. Would love to see it at China Wall.

[Landmissile]

That thing is a Beast hopefully it will be back on the trails this spring. Would love to see it at China Wall.

That makes two of us. LOL

[88Toy]

Is that tie rod issue something you can live with or will you have to modify it?

[xaza]

Do they make an end link with an offset for that? I have the same issue with my XJ but they have off set tie rod ends I can use. Been putting it off because I want an OTK steering.

[Landmissile]

Is that tie rod issue something you can live with or will you have to modify it?




Do they make an end link with an offset for that? I have the same issue with my XJ but they have off set tie rod ends I can use.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to correct it. They do make offset tie rods but I'm not sure about heim joints. If I put a slight bend in the tie rod on the driver's side it should be good in theory. Beside interfering with the steering it's likely causing added stress to the heim joint as well. I could also extend the steering arm now that I think about it. More work then bending the tie rod but it's an option.

[xaza]

It almost looks like you might be able to move drag link up and get more clearance from the more shallow part of the diff. Stabilizer mount looks like it might be close though. Just spitballin some ideas. Truck is sweet.

[Landmissile]

It almost looks like you might be able to move drag link up and get more clearance from the more shallow part of the diff. Stabilizer mount looks like it might be close though. Just spitballin some ideas. Truck is sweet.

That's a good option. Tie rod heims wouldn't be double shear any more but that is easily corrected. Not sure how much that would effect the relationship between the drag link and the track bar. I would have to move the hydro ram tabs up the diff housing a bit. It's an easy mock up. I'll move the tie rod to the top of the steering arms in the morning and see how it looks.

[Popsgarage]

Holy ground clearance under the diffs!

Gotta love portals!!!!!!

[Popsgarage]

Unfortunately I'm going to have to correct it. They do make offset tie rods but I'm not sure about heim joints.

You could always go to an offset tie rod end if that's still an option. We used a set of these from RuffStuff for her tie rod. Or just redo/rebuild the tie rod itself if you want to stay with heims.

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/graphics/00000001/offset%20tres.jpg

[Landmissile]

You could always go to an offset tie rod end if that's still an option.

Unfortunately tie rods aren't an option. The steering arms are fabricated for heims. I'm going to try setting the heims on top of the steering arms and see what kind of clearance it gets me and what kind of down stream adjustments I have to make to everything else.

[Landmissile]

Before I start messing with the tie rod I wanted to get the spare carrier mocked on with a spare to check clearance. I thought it would be a tremendous PIA to swing that 39in tire up and get it locked in. It actually wasn't too bad. Got it on the first try. It's definitely heavier then the 35in tire on light weight aluminum rims.

Also... the rear suspension didn't come down as much as I thought it would with the additional weight. Still on the fence with the track bar issue. I'm likely going to lower the frame side track bar bracket. I do have to keep the track bar though. I tried moving it without the track bar and the rear end was everywhere. Definitely not ok for street use.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af337/rcscottdiesel/IMG_20131220_104133_zpsf3062f69.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/rcscottdiesel/media/IMG_20131220_104133_zpsf3062f69.jpg.html)

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af337/rcscottdiesel/IMG_20131220_104248_zps22d71074.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/rcscottdiesel/media/IMG_20131220_104248_zps22d71074.jpg.html)

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af337/rcscottdiesel/IMG_20131220_104159_zps37d094ef.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/rcscottdiesel/media/IMG_20131220_104159_zps37d094ef.jpg.html)

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af337/rcscottdiesel/IMG_20131220_104220_zps221362f3.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/rcscottdiesel/media/IMG_20131220_104220_zps221362f3.jpg.html)

[CS79bronco]

Love the tire carrier. I've been looking at swing type carriers for a while for ideas and that is the best I've seen. Keep up the good work! Great build!

[Landmissile]

Love the tire carrier. I've been looking at swing type carriers for a while for ideas and that is the best I've seen. Keep up the good work! Great build!

Thank you. The Trail Ready bumper didn't have an option for carrying the spare when I bought it. I spent a lot of time thinking about how I wanted to mount a spare to it. I discovered GenRight had swing down and swing away carriers for wranglers. I called them up and asked them for measurements on the swing down model. Based on their numbers it looked like I could make it work. Ended up shaving about a half inch off each of the upper mounts so they would slide just between the upper corner guard plates. Drilled the plates and cut down the hitch pins. Now it looks like it came with the bumper. Couldn't be happier with it and it looks tough.

[Atl-atl]

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af337/rcscottdiesel/IMG_20131220_104159_zps37d094ef.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/rcscottdiesel/media/IMG_20131220_104159_zps37d094ef.jpg.html)


Its got that "TJ-lean" goin on hah.

[Landmissile]

Its got that "TJ-lean" goin on hah.

Haha! That's funny. Thankfully the lean is due to uneven ground and not my work.

[88Toy]

What's happening with the Z?

[Atl-atl]

Crickets in here too.