Trimming vs. body lift???

[ctracy5]

Well I asked on the planet so I guess I will ask it here as well. As much of you have probably read I just got some new tires, I was planning on just trimming to fit but someone on the planet suggested that I do a body lift. At first I didn't want to but the more I think about it I like the idea of not cutting up my truck :frown:. So here are the issues, anyone who has seen my truck knows it is already pretty tall and I can only get a 1" lift which I don't think will clear the tires or a 3" lift which is pretty big IMO. The next issue is that I want to run some 31s around town for better mpg, to cut down the wear on my off-road tires, etc, and I think that if I did a 3" body lift they would look a little silly. I think the 35s would look great but not the 31s. Also the kit is $200 so yeah more money I don't want to spend.

So those are my issues with the body lift, but know for trimming. I am worried that by trimming I may open a can of worms with the rear fenders being so close to the doors, it looks like the edges are rolled and crimped so I don't want to open a big hole that I will need to fill (I will take some pics in the morning). Anyways just shooting in the dark here. Also my best idea for doing the trimming was to tape out where I wanted to cut and use a small 4" grinder and taking it very slow to make the cut. I have a dermal that I may use to clean things up afterwards but I don't think it could do the entire job. Any suggestion on how to do it would be much appreciated.

[ctracy5]

This is what I'm afraid the smaller tires would look like, nothing against it but its just not my cup of tea to have the body floating way up in the air above the tires. I like to tires to be in the fender wells not under.

I don't mind this one to much but this is a small vehicle I think it works better.

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo278/iranbeatriz1/BushGardenPicturesPictureswithfr-2.jpg

but this just looks awkward to me, the proportions are wrong. Put some bigger tires and it would look great. I guess its not as bad as the guys on campus running cheap 8"-10" lifts with stock tires, that just looks terrible.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/members/blown284-627922-albums-my+f350-24779-picture-img-0232-91838.jpg

I guess my other $4000 alternative is to regear to run 35"s all the time :lmao:

[Popsgarage]

Trim as much as you can. Body lifts, in my opinion, should be kept to around an inch and only used to clear drivetrain parts such as transfer cases that have been clocked, etc.

[Hypoid]

I am worried that by trimming I may open a can of worms with the rear fenders being so close to the doors, it looks like the edges are rolled and crimped so I don't want to open a big hole that I will need to fill (I will take some pics in the morning). I'd like to see the pictures.


Anyways just shooting in the dark here. Also my best idea for doing the trimming was to tape out where I wanted to cut and use a small 4" grinder and taking it very slow to make the cut. I have a dermal that I may use to clean things up afterwards but I don't think it could do the entire job. Any suggestion on how to do it would be much appreciated.I prefer the "cut and fold" method. It is much easier to work with

[Popsgarage]

I prefer the "cut and fold" method. It is much easier to work with

Agreed. And remember, on the rear opening that is close to the front of the wheel well, the rear suspension is going to move rearward as the suspension cycles because, as the leaf spring compresses, it's going to flatten out, moving the axle centerline towards the rear of the rig. Your front suspension in going to move, more or less, straight up and down since it's IFS.

[Tnsejed]

Trim it. Body lifts suck.

[Popsgarage]

Body lifts suck.

Yep.

[gm4x4lover]

I would do the 1" and trim it. How much lift do you have now?

[Desert Rat]

While body lifts aren't ideal, I feel that with a max of 2" they are OK, especially on trucks with IFS, a body mounted very low on the frame, and limited aftermarket suspension lift options, such as your Isuzu. I've installed a couple of 2" body lifts on my '87 Pathfinder and '01 Xterra in addition to a 2" suspension lift to fit 33" tires, and I have had no negative issues with extensive off road exploration use. IMO, greater than 2" is the point where it becomes some booty fab, and less is certainly better. For a Jeep, K5 Blazer, or Toyota, I wouldn't bother with a BL since there are all the extensive aftermarket suspension options available to fit the tires you want.

It depends on your technical and mechanic abilities too. In the case of my Nissans, I spent a lot of time rerouting wiring, hoses, and other lines, fabricating new bumper brackets, inner fender shields, etc. Often, the "kit" instructions and methods are very subpar solutions to the myriad of issues involved in moving the body up a couple inches. Very few people would know that my vehicle had a body lift beyond the 2" spacers at each mount as the routing of wiring, hoses, looms, bumpers, and bracketry all look factory.

Another reason I have avoided major fender trimming on these particular vehicles is that the inner fender liners and such would have to be removed and you compromise the factory corrosion protections for the body. If you drive on the winter roads with all the mag chloride (or salt if you leave Colorado), all that crap gets packed into nooks and crannies that the factory never intended to need much corrosion protection, so after a few years your body if rotting away. I spent 4 winters in Iowa / Wisconsin so I'm paranoid about this, but my Xterra has 0 rust because I thoroughly pressure washed the underside all winter to rinse all the salt off, and kept all the original inner fenders and skirts in place.

On my Xterra, I did not buy a "kit" at all. I simply bought the 2" body lift spacers from Summit racing for $3.95 each, measured and obtained the correct length Grade 8 bolts and hardware, and fabricated the other odds and ends needed, including bumper brackets. Total price of correctly done 2" body lift to fit 33's on the Xterra = $100.

Geoff

[Fordguy77]

Personally I try to avoid body lifts as much as possible. However I will be putting a 2" body lift on my 4runner. But that is only to make it easier to install my 302 into it, as well as raise my drivetrain 2" to have my drivetrain tucked above the frame rails. But because of this I'm limiting my suspension lift to keep my center of gravity low, and will end up trimming my fenders for tire clearance. If I could get away with no body lift I would, but that would require metal work and fabrication skills outside my realm.

The cut and fold method is one of the better fender trimming options I've seen. And it is what I plan to use when I cut them on my FJ60.

[ctracy5]

alright so I am leaning towards just trimming again thanks guys. So this cut and roll method what is that exactly, I was searching online but could find any vids or anything other then just cutting. Would I cut verticals and then just hammer the sides down instead of actually removing the fender material?

[96blkbeauty]

I personally could never cut the fenders on a vehicle that is still in decent condition. Unless you're cutting out some rust, I say go with an alternative option. Body lifts, imo, are a great, cheap way to fit larger tires for cheap without cutting up your vehicle.

But, i'm biased as I have a 3" body lift on my Ranger and have had no issues. I've also been apart of different Ranger forums for years, and most guys go with the body lift due to the expensive price tag of the suspension lifts. None of them have had issues, at least that I recall reading about.

I bought my 3" body lift as an actual kit from Summit...came with all the hardware, spacers, fueler neck extension, shifter extension, steering extension, new brackets to raise the bumpers, exc. It made it a lot easier then having to fab your own stuff, and the kit was only 250 bucks.

Body lifts can be beneficial in certain wheeling/DD circumstances as it keeps your center of gravity lower.

I have however heard people complain about having body lifts on their rigs when their rigs are heavy wheelers. But, by the sounds of it, yours isn't going to be doing extreme wheeling.

As far as looks go...a lot of people don't like the looks of a body lift because it exposes more frame underneath the vehicle, as well as a gap between the body and frame. I think it depends on the vehicle...Rangers for some reason don't look like they're body lifted. The frame sits high enough, and my step sides block the remainder of it. Not sure how you Isuzu would look.

Bottom line, if you decide to body lift it...do it right. Raise your bumpers, hitch, use gap guards and make sure you extend everything properly and safely.

Here's my Ranger with the BL and 33's. I have yet to get gap guards....:D


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/96blkbeauty/20131127_071017.jpg (http://s464.photobucket.com/user/96blkbeauty/media/20131127_071017.jpg.html)


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/96blkbeauty/20131127_070934.jpg (http://s464.photobucket.com/user/96blkbeauty/media/20131127_070934.jpg.html)
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/96blkbeauty/20131013_174654.jpg (http://s464.photobucket.com/user/96blkbeauty/media/20131013_174654.jpg.html)

[96blkbeauty]

Also, I hear a lot of people on the interwebs saying that "body lifts suck," however they have no real reason as to why they think they suck. Most of them don't have any personal experience with body lifts, and their opinions are what they are due to stuff they read online. Even then, i've heard only a handful of bad experiences with body lifts...and hundreds, if not thousands of people running them.

[ExplorerTom]

Body lifts are a lot like IFS- not ideal but they get the job done. Some people like them and some people hate them purely on principle.

On my Explorer, I did both. 2" body lift- a 2" can be done without needing to get the steering shaft extension which adds a lot of cost, and some trimming of the front fenders.

with the trimming, you may need to fabricate some new wheel well liners. My front passenger door hinges got all covered in sand and junk from the front tire spraying it. Some thick mud flap plastic (a black plastic trash can could work too) and some creativity and I covered up those holes.

[The StRanger]

Up to a two inch In my opinion is alright
Depend on whats hangin down under the frame, you can do a drivetrain lift also go with a flat skid plate.

[Dutch]

I would do the 1" body lift and then
trim as needed. You won't need to trim the rear as much as you would think. Look at how XJ's do a cut and fold, that should give you good ideas for trimming your Isuzu.

[Tnsejed]

Body lifts can be beneficial in certain wheeling/DD circumstances as it keeps your center of gravity lower.



This is only true if the only other option is being a taller suspension lift to fit the tires you are attempting to fit.

If you trim then your cog is the lowest of all three scenarios, and with the larger tire you gain extra ground clearance under the lowest non-rolling part of your vehicle.

Now with the suspension lift you get the larger tire under axle clearance, and more under frame/body clearance, but your sacrifice is cog.

With a body lift you get the clearance under the axles of the larger tires your putting on, you gain no under frame clearance, and your cog has been raised above the trimming level. IMO, this is the worst of the three options.

But all this talk of cog it does need to be said that when talking a 1" body lift its probably not going to really make a noticeable difference.

[BLOODBANE]

I run a 3" on my Explorer (in avatar) and really the only "bad" is it makes the body flex more than a stock mount. I found this out when I had to replace a windsheild. The guys at the glass shop only had to push the old window out. They said they used some different stuff when they installed the new one, because I told them that the body will ," bend" if you will more than stock. I havent had any issues so far (I had the new one installed about 2 years ago.

As far as COG goes, you will learn what your rig is capable of, I have had my Explorer in some pretty hairy situations (ask Larry H. about going down Saran Wrap when I slipped into a rut). On an inside turn, going downhill, I had the rear tire about 6' off the ground and never rolled it. Re-learn your rig first before wheeling it hard.

If a BL is your only option (other than cutting) I say go for it (I also run a 2" on my Ranger, but that is to clear the C-6 more than anything)I personally dont think the white rig pictured looks bad.

As far as rolling where you cut, one way I solved this on my Ranger was with some fuel tubing and some windsheild urethane. Basically split the tubing (after being cut to length) and glued it around the sharp edge. I have had my BOGGERs into the rubber tubing and it still holds up
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/BLOODBANE81230/DSC02921_zps7f97325e.jpg
The black line on the rear wheel wells. Simple, cheap fis to a sharp edge that will chew up tires otherwise.

[Popsgarage]

when talking a 1" body lift its probably not going to really make a noticeable difference.

Such as used to give room between the body and drivetrain when cutting the floor pan is not an option.

[Tnsejed]

Such as used to give room between the body and drivetrain when cutting the floor pan is not an option.

Exactly

[Cr33p3r]

so yeah more money I don't want to spend

I think there is your answer first and foremost, Trimming works great as long as you know what you are doing it can be pulled off to look like stock. After having BLs on vehicles they too cause issues of sorts and I am getting ready to take my current one off for similar reasons that you specify too tall primarily also the speedometer cable is not long enough to fit so no telling what speed I am driving.
You could apply the $200 to something else that you have on your build list that could benefit you more so IMO.

[Cr33p3r]

Here is a link with pics and videos for rolling your fenders, although there are tons of ways to do it as a body guy I still prefer the old method of cut, fold and weld.

https://www.google.com/search?q=rolling+fenders&newwindow=1&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=7nvJUufQAqfXyAHUv4DICw&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQsAQ&biw=1344&bih=695

https://www.google.com/search?q=rolling+fenders&newwindow=1&safe=off&tbm=vid&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=83vJUoGtGoORygGQ7oHgCw&ved=0CAwQ_AUoBA&biw=1344&bih=695&dpr=1.25 (https://www.google.com/search?q=rolling+fenders&newwindow=1&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=7nvJUufQAqfXyAHUv4DICw&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQsAQ&biw=1344&bih=695)

[Jim]

I didn't read the whole thread (perhaps it's been answered) but you asked for pix:

In the Jeep world the 3" body lift pulls out from the woodwork all sorts of negative passion. Is there a limit, yes, but 3" is certainly acceptable in my book. Now, the 3" lift does allow me to access parts of the jeep I couldn't (top of fuel tank - slide hand between frame and body). You don't have a frame, IIRC, so this "feature" for me does not exist for you, no?

1990 Wrangler, suspension lift and 3" body lift (35" & 31" tyres)

35's
http://www.jimwilliamson.net/automobile/2011-09-01--trail-old-flowers-road/img_2449.jpg

31's
http://www.jimwilliamson.net/automobile/2011-09-01--trail-old-flowers-road/img_2447.jpg

[ctracy5]

You don't have a frame, IIRC, so this "feature" for me does not exist for you, no?

Actually I have a full frame but nothing except maybe the gas tank would be more accessible due to the lift. Lots of room under this thing.

[sunk]

My 2 cents, not a fan of body lifts as it raises the cog, and you do not get the benefits a suspension lift offers (more articulation). They do offer an inexpensive option to allow larger tires, and the major reason to go to larger tires is to create more clearance for you differentials (not to mention your approach angle improves, and they help to roll over larger rocks and gaps)

I think you should trim as much as you are comfortable with, then install up to a 1" body lift if needed.

[ctracy5]

I think you should trim as much as you are comfortable with, then install up to a 1" body lift if needed.

That is the plan for now, picking up a grinder from my boss today or tomorrow and gonna take it real slow.

[Funrover]

Looking at your body lines, how much can you trim away before you get into your door? From what I see here you don't have a lot. While I do prefer to trim (and that's what I did, I don't like the look of body lifts, I wanted to keep my COG down,etc etc) you may have to do both. That said I don't get a chance to play IZ much.

Edit: I didn't see what Sunk said. Do that. Trim what you can lift if you need!

[ctracy5]

That is my main worry as we'll. On that rear fender about all I can do is fold the lip over, but someone reminded me that my axle comes up it also moves backwards so I think I should be alright. And if not then a 1" body lift will be a last resort.

[sunk]

I was just checking out the pics in your build thread to see where everything ended up. Have you considered moving the rear axle towards the rear. That would allow you to trim the rear side of the quarter panel and you would not have to be concerned with the door jam. Is it leaf sprung in the rear?

[ctracy5]

Yeah it has leaves. Is it typically simple to move the axle back and inch or two?

[Popsgarage]

but someone reminded me that my axle comes up it also moves backwards so I think I should be alright.

Suspension motion is one thing to take into account when the talk of trimming and the actual process begins. In the case of the rear leaf and even link suspensions, the axle centerline moves rearward, thus negating some of the necessary cutting at the front of the wheel opening in the rear. The front suspension on your rig, and most IFS rigs, moves mostly straight up and down with maybe a slight movement to the drivers compartment or firewall. But steering must be taken into account on the front. Best to place a floor jack under the lower control arm on one side of the rig and raise it as high as you can and then turn the steering wheel lock to lock and check for contact and mark accordingly. Then you can determine where you need to cut and where you need be careful of cutting.

[Popsgarage]

Is it typically simple to move the axle back and inch or two?

Not actually that difficult and there are a couple of ways to do it. The most common do involve welding on a new spring perch, which, for some is easy, while for others it isn't. Here are a couple of examples from RuffStuff. Neither are terribly expensive and are one of the easier ways to get it done. http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/D44HD-PERCH.html http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/2PLUS.html

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/graphics/00000001/Bronco%203inch%20perchessm.jpghttp://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/graphics/00000001/2+perchkit.jpg

[sunk]

I agree with Pops, its not that difficult and there are several ways to go about moving the axle back and inch. Sounds like Pops found a great option, I also found one from ORD. Their solution is geared towards fullsize trucks, but I am sure if you were to call them they could offer a solution for you as well.

This link shows ORDs option: http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/Zero%20Rates.htm

You must keep in mind that if you move the axle back you may have to lengthen your driveshaft. Bill at Englewood Driveshaft can help you determine if it would be necessary.

Englewood Driveshaft: 303-781-0554

One other note regarding suspension movement, it is true the rear axle will move back while cycling but not enough to clear your front section of the quarter panel in your pictures.

[ctracy5]

Bill made/moded my current shafts so he would know. Haven't seen him on here in while.

Thanks for all the info guys. Hopefully it warms up and I can get this trimming started. I am gonna start with just trimming and see what I can do and then if I still have clearance issue I will have to look and see if a small BL or moving my axle back would be the next step. I would prefer moving the axle to recenter it in my fenders but if I have to extend my shafts that would most likely be out of budget at the moment.

[Hypoid]

I'm still stuck on flexing it out to see where everything falls. Look behind your local strip malls, you'll likely find some loading docks with ramps.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8530/8617137577_9cee9216c7_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8392/8618247014_a182fc2348_b.jpg

[ctracy5]

When it warms up I am gonna put the jack at each corner and see what happens.

[ctracy5]

Well I got it street able the the other day, but it looks like the front fenders will need a little more help then I can give. I don't hit around town but I am worried that I will rub/cut my tires on a trail. But I have to cut into a body panel that will need to be filled and I don't feel comfortable doing it alone and I don't have any welding equipment. I need to "boat" (think I have heard that term used somewhere) out the rear of the front fender to clear while turning and flexing. I am in no real hurry I have until May to get this thing "perfect" but would like to run a few trails here first to test things out. If anyone would be interested in helping me out let me know.

The rears I think I just need to cut and fold so I am not worried. They actually don't hit even at full flex right now but I think with brand new tires with full tread they might so I am going to trim them anyways. Here are some picks at full tuck in the rear. I put a jack as close to wheel as I could and then put on under the opposite front corner and had both back tires off the ground.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jsWv5LJeWCw/Us9KLNMBu1I/AAAAAAAAHA4/YrnhTw88ni0/w929-h697-no/IMG_0134.JPG

Front Behind door

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EQxYhGeheGU/Us9KMBREG1I/AAAAAAAAHAk/5FT0dgHivw8/w523-h697-no/IMG_0136.JPG

Rear of fender

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CElw5wZWgBk/Us9KNHZejvI/AAAAAAAAHAs/Ye7JtlQ6CHo/w523-h697-no/IMG_0135.JPG

[Cr33p3r]

From looking at the pics if you remove the trim piece that will give you at least a 1/2" more clearance. If you decide to trim mark the top edge of the trim to the body mating surface and cut that area should give you plenty of room w/o going into your door jamb.

[ctracy5]

Here are some pics of the front fender and what needs to be cut. My biggest concern is the little triangle thing on the right side. I need to cut it back and then close it up again.

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y359/Chrisstracy/Mobile%20Uploads/1c918cee-9914-482a-9332-cf08f483be85_zps56119b9c.jpg?t=1389461799

This is a good pic of the part that needs the most work.

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y359/Chrisstracy/Mobile%20Uploads/862c6842-5ef6-4717-a7ca-99b5f2e9e018_zps5ea8b988.jpg?t=1389461760

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y359/Chrisstracy/Mobile%20Uploads/5b360f44-0e37-4781-887d-12ba59fd3bf4_zpsc33d17e5.jpg?t=1389461865

[Hypoid]

BFH and a drift to move that inboard as it flattens.

[ctracy5]

I need it to go back to where the other cut line is so almost an inch so a hammer is not gonna get the job done....already tried.

[Hypoid]

I got skillzzzzzzzzzzzzz. :D

[Robert B]

this is not to be rude or anything by the just an observation on something in the pic ....if you did a the full compression by jacking up one rear tire till off the ground iit will compress more unless you are already sitting on the bumpstops .....at least my truck will go WAY farther than jacking up one side will even f I max the jack out ...just a thought that I might seem great but when wheeled it may still hit.... and that kinda hits on my other thing that im not sure if it was said in here at all but if the bump stop is close you can always buy a bigger one to stop the upward travel and keep the tire out of the body......if there is a large gap though that will not work ........otherwise eek that is tight. :)

[ctracy5]

I honestly didn't look at the bump stop. I jacked up the rear corner and the opposite front corner until both rear tires were coming off the ground so it may flex a little more on a trail. I am gonna trim to the outer edge of the chrome trim and then do some more testing. But the front is my primary concern for now.

I am defiantly not a guru at this so I try to never take things personally, if I say something dumb I want to be corrected.

[Robert B]

oh you did get the opposite front corner also that gets it much closer to the trail flex so that works but yes its the back side of lifting for clearance is limiting upward travel :)