Ford 8.8 swap

[dscowell]

Justin (jsteves) has a ford 8.8 he has offered for $75 which sounded reasonable to me especially sense I have a Dana 35 and the 8.8 would be a huge upgrade. The only thing is I roughly calculated how much it would cost and it ended up being around $620 not including tax or shipping. I want your guys help to tell me what parts I'm missing and what parts I don't need to get.

Axle- $75
Diff Cover- $47.99 - just need something cheap for the time being - 4wd.com (http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-Jeep-Axles-Differentials/Ford-8-8-Chrome-Differential-Cover.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=237&t_pt=4041&t_pn=T%2fD9045)
Complete axle swap kit- $117.50 - just need to change the spring perches to SUA - Ruffstuffspecialties.com (http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/88SS-31.html)
Ring and Pinion- $184.16 - the 8.8 is 3.73 and my axles are currently 3.07 - Seriousoffroadproducts.com (http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/Axle-DriveTrain/Ring-Pinion/PRECISION-GEAR/Precision-Gear/Precision-Gear-Dana-30-3.73-Ring-Pinion)
Carrier- $60 - to my understanding D30 carriers are 3.55 and lower or 3.73 and higher so I believe I will need a new carrier - Seriousoffroadproducts.com (http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/Axle-DriveTrain/Lockers-Carriers/Dana-Spicer/Dana-Spicer/Dana-30-Open-Differential-Carrier-Case-3.73-And-Up-Gears)
R & P install kit- $97.99 - not sure I really need this but added it just in case - 4wd.com (http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-Jeep-Axles-Differentials/Dana-30-Master-Installation-Kit.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=237&t_pt=5094&t_pn=G%2f235-2032)
Yoke Flange- $35 - the 8.8 uses a pinion flange instead of a pinion yoke - Ironrockoffroad.com (http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-SF88FA&Category_Code=F88S)

First question is with the axle swap kit do I really need the new spring plates and shock mounts sense my plates are in good condition and have shock mounts on them? Is it due to the 8.8 having larger axle tubes then the D35?

Next is I really feel like it would just be easier as well as cheaper to find a XJ non-CAD D30 instead of regearing my axle. Would that be the case? How common would it be to find a D30 with 3.73 sense 3.55 seems to be the more common gear ratio in xjs.

What did I miss? What do I not need?

[94ToyBear]

Dont forget brake hose/lines! Id run a steel braided. Are you planing on doing a master cyl and booster up grade ( if you even need it ??) I have to on my yj.

Is this a Drum or Disk 8.8 ?

[dscowell]

I'm going to upgrade the master cylinder and brake booster regardless of the swap. Why do I need new brake lines? The ones I have right now work well.

[Java]

That's a great swap! :thumb: I believe the older XJs with the 2.8 or the 4cyl had 3.73 Dana 30 fronts. You could probably find an OEM 8.8 cover for less on CL or in a yard, just a thought. Personally I'd leave the 8.8 gears and upgrade the 30.

[Patrolman]

Agreed. Gear the front instead. You won't regret getting the lower 3.73 gears. A used diff cover would be in order too. Keep it on the cheap if you can. I am sure they money could be spent elsewhere.

What is included in the axle swap kit? Spring perches aren't $117. If that is all you need, either just buy some, or make your own.

[Patrolman]

Take a look at this before you dive too far into this:
http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/4469493019.html

"8.8 with 4.10s limit slip or open set up for a MJ XJ YJ. $500 Other ratios available 3.08, 3.55, or 3.73. Paint is only included with install otherwise axle will be ready for paint when picked up. Aftermarket diff cover is extra not included axle will include a factory diff cover."


Sounds to me like all you need to do it bolt it in for a flat $500 cost. Might be worth looking into. I think that is the price for an axle with the disc brakes too.

[xaza]

That is a pretty sweet sounding deal Jeff. You are correct about the Dana 30 carrier splitting at 3.55, so you will need the high ratio carrier. My ZJ Dana 30 has 3.73 gears, not sure if it was common. Would not work well for an axle swap, but I believe all the internals could be transferred if you found a donor at a jy. Someone will correct me if I am wrong. A bit of a PITA but if you found a good Dana 30 in a cherokee and the right gears in something else, you could swap the gears at the yard and only pay for a complete axle. That way you can continue to drive your truck while working on the axles and you would only be in for like $125 on the front. Not sure if you can set the gears yourself but if not there have been a couple axles done recently that I am sure you can get a referral, I just don't remember who it was...

[dscowell]

I should have clarified the plan was only to regear the front axle. And I didn't think of just using a cover from te junkyard so thank you for that! The swap includes perches, plates, shock mounts, and u-bolts. I linked the websites to all of the products. That's $500 for just the axle? When getting the axle ready with everything listed would only cost around $300 and I could live with drum brakes for the time being.

[xaza]

I believe you are missing the fact that for $500 it is an axle with all the mounts already there, you just bolt it in. Already geared in your choice of gearing, $700 if you want the 4.56 or 4.88 gears.

[dscowell]

So cliff what your saying is if I found a D30 for the front with 3.73 I could install that and drive around in 2wd and be fine til I got the rear axle in?

[xaza]

Not what I was saying. You will want to do both axles at the same time, but if you only have 1 Dana 30, your truck is down until you get it re-geared and the rear axle in. Getting a second Dana 30 allows you to have the axle done and ready to install for when the rear axle is ready and then they both go in and you have a spare of each just in case. If you can do your own gears it helps a lot with not having it down as long too and makes it not really necessary to get another axle.

[dscowell]

I understand that the axle comes with everything and you just bolt it right in. And what I was thinking was if I could find a second Dana 30 with the 3.73 gears it would just be a strait swap with the one I have now. And I can't do my own gears so that would be more money I would need to spend. I'm just looking for the cheapest way to do this I understand this wasn't going to be the cheapest thing in the world I just wanted to see if I could afford it with my budget

[Java]

saw this on CL today http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/4456448681.html

[Hypoid]

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f53/get-your-stock-specs-here-135806/

With a stock XJ, a four cylinder with manual transmission, will have either 3.73 or 4.10 gears in the axles, regardless of model year.

That guy in Parker has quite a mark-up for welding perches on a used axle.

What size tires are you running, Dante?

[Hypoid]

saw this on CL today http://denver.craigslist.org/sys/4456448681.htmlThat is a good price, Paul, even for a low pinion housing.

[ExplorerTom]

SFF Customs (the Craigslist ad linked above) built my Explorer and regeared it long before the SAS and SOA. Ask him if you bring him the 8.8 (the one you can get for $75), would it reduce the cost since it would keep him from having to go pull it himself from a junkyard? Worth the ask. Even $500 is a steal for a bolt in conversion.

if you ever want to entertain the idea of bigger tires, you'll want to ditch the 3.07 gears. 3.73 at bare minimum with your sights set more toward 4.10 or 4.56. My D30/8.8 set up has 4.56 gears.

He responds best via text or Facebook.

[xaza]

I hope to make it to the JY near me either tomorrow or Sat. I will check for an XJ 3:73 gears. I know I saw a couple there last week but didn't pay attention to condition.

[dscowell]

Mike I have 235/75r15 so I was going to stick with the 3.73 gears for the time being.

Tom that's not a bad idea either I could try that too.

[dscowell]

Cliff that would be appreciated!

[94ToyBear]

My mistake I was thinking back to my swap I did a 8.8 in my yj with a trust and have to make new hard brake line and while I was at it I put a steel braided line. But if you can hook up directly to your existing hard line thats great. What I have to do due to the 3.5 lift is get a longer brake line (braided) that had a mounting block and 2 female ends. Used a passanger side brake hose on the drivers side to mount to the new line then steel line going to passager side.

[jayson44]

I was going to say that TJ d30s have TONS of 3.73 gears in them, but you'd be going LP. however, since you're not running tires bigger than 33s, I don't think you'll have an issue. grab that one for $100, then sell yours for $100. straight swap.

J.

[Hypoid]

Mike I have 235/75r15 so I was going to stick with the 3.73 gears for the time being.You will need bigger tires. :)

[Fordguy77]

What is the cheap 8.8 out of? If it's am exploder it's a 31 spline and an 1.5" wider than the ranger 28 spline. Also what is included in the $500? Has the axle been resealed? Or is it merely just a junkyard axle with new perches?

[Patrolman]

It isn't clear what you get for the $500. If it is just welded perches, it obviously isn't a deal. I know there needs to be the flange change, e-brake change, shock mounts, etc. If it is truly bolt in, maybe it isn't bad as the additional parts wouldn't have to be purchased.

[94ToyBear]

Ehhh just go with MonsterBurbs d44 and 14bolt...ull be set after that haha !

[CS79bronco]

Ehhh just go with MonsterBurbs d44 and 14bolt...ull be set after that haha !
Then a bigger motor would be necessary, along with tranny & t-case, and of course tires & wheels, necessitating body mods, etc etc.....

[94ToyBear]

Then a bigger motor would be necessary, along with tranny & t-case, and of course tires & wheels, necessitating body mods, etc etc.....
Guess you didnt get that "haha" I was just joking.
That being said, I smell a LS coming !

[CS79bronco]

Oh yeah, I saw that "haha". Dante, just come to the Springs & pick up what's left of a Comanche for $4K. Already has 14 bolt, Ford D60, plated frame, Dodge 318, lots of parts, etc. But it's not completely assembled yet. Could be ready to race soon, or just a real good trail rig. lol It's on craigslist. No fenders or bedsides, really ugly too.

[dscowell]

What is the cheap 8.8 out of? If it's am exploder it's a 31 spline and an 1.5" wider than the ranger 28 spline. Also what is included in the $500? Has the axle been resealed? Or is it merely just a junkyard axle with new perches?

out of an explorer I believe so the 31 spline. And I'm not exactly sure what comes with it I facebook messaged them about bringing an axle and I was told it would be $150.


Dante, just come to the Springs & pick up what's left of a Comanche for $4K

Yeah I've seen that ugly thing! It's been on CL for quite awhile I think he's going to have to part it out cause $4k is a high asking price for an unfinished truck even with everything it has!

Another quick question! I understand that unless you want to totally destroy your T-case your gears and tires should all be identical to each other but what is the difference between 3.07 and 3.08 gears? Rob (Adaa60) offered me his axle for $100 with the blown R&P so I was thinking to save myself money it would be wise just to regear the 8.8 to match the front if I am to get the axle.

[Patrolman]

The difference between 3.07 and 3.08 is so minimal, you will never notice. I used to put Toyota FJ40 rear axles in my Nissan Patrols. The Toyota was 4.10, and the Patrol was 4.11 if I remember right. Not a lick of difference.

[dscowell]

The difference between 3.07 and 3.08 is so minimal, you will never notice. I used to put Toyota FJ40 rear axles in my Nissan Patrols. The Toyota was 4.10, and the Patrol was 4.11 if I remember right. Not a lick of difference.

So it wouldn't destroy my T-case or screw something else up? Cause I know you want your gears to be exactly the same but I can only find 3.08 gears for 8.8s.

[94ToyBear]

So it wouldn't destroy my T-case or screw something else up? Cause I know you want your gears to be exactly the same but I can only find 3.08 gears for 8.8s.

On my wrangler have 4.11 up front and ford 4.10 rear workes fine. Same gear is optimal. Id be cautious with tires larger then 33s.
Iv allways wondered if running lower tire pressure from front to back when airing down can make up for the gear ratio differance ?

[Fordguy77]

It's alright to have your gears a point off. Some rigs actually came from the factory like this. However 3.07s/3.08s are going to have no torque and really only be good for highway use.

[94ToyBear]

I agree ! that ratio is gona rob you blind. If your looking to build on a budget get your hands on some 4.10-8.8 gears and rear gear your front D30 to 4.11

What motor do you have ?

[dscowell]

I have the 3.07 now and they have worked good so far. I feel like the 4.10 would be too low for my small tires but correct me if I am wrong.



What motor do you have ?
Renix 6cyl

[Hypoid]

If you plan to continue using the 235/75 R15, there is no need to change anything...including that D-35.

[ExplorerTom]

^^yep.

Do it right or do it twice.

How much are you going to waste on tall gears for those tires? Then when you upgrade tires, those gears will be horrible and have to buy new gears (and the time/effort/labor spent doing it twice). Instead get the gears now that will work with bigger tires later. Keep your eyes open for a set of used tires. Your truck will be a go-kart for awhile and not want to go over about 65-70, but it'll rip across an intersection faster than just about anything. Then when you get bigger tires, it'll put it back to normal and vastly improve its off-road.

[dscowell]

You do have point Tom usually I'm good about thinking ahead but I guess this time I was just being to stubborn.

[xaza]

Hold up, do you have a goal for what size tires you are going to build this truck to? I knew I was going to 35's and geared my axles for them but running on 31's was terrible with those gears. You can't jump too far or your mpg's and top speed both drop qiuckly. 3.73 gears is a pretty common for a Dana 30 (JY) which would match the 8.8. 3.73 gears should likely get you low enough to run 31's which IIRC is about the biggest tire you can run without a bunch of cutting or more lift. Spending a bunch of money on axles to redo later is more expensive in the long run but this looks like an opportunity for an inexpensive gearing/axle upgrade. Even if you have to do R&P later you will already have a worthwhile axle in the rear for it.

[dscowell]

I was thinking my final tire size would be 35s but that's along ways away! And it 3" can handle 33s with no trimming just longer bumpstops. I guess I have alot to think about before I decide what to do!

[xaza]

Not sure if you have seen one of these. I chose 4.88 gears because I wanted to still have an option to go bigger if I choose later.
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Knowledgebase/Image/gearchart%281%29.jpg

[Hypoid]

Cliff, does the source of the chart state the final drive gear ratio? Those RPMs at speed seem high for an overdrive transmission. The final drive of my AW4 equipped XJ is .70, the AX15 equipped vehicles have a .79 final drive.

The point is, to set your cruise RPMs at highway speed. The 4.0 torque starts to come in around 2250 RPM. If you set your gears to maintain that RPM with a given tire size, you will retain (somewhat) stock performance.

:2c:

[xaza]

Most of those charts I have seen use 1:1, they drop off OD. For the AW4 transmission the RPMs listed are in 3rd, will be slightly lower with OD.

[Hypoid]

There are some handy calculators on this page: http://www.ringpinion.com/Calculators/Calc_RPM.aspx

The main idea is to get your cruise RPM close to, or slightly higher than original equipment specs.