hey look, another off-road trailer build!

[jayson44]

ok, so everyone else seems to be building their trailers lately, so why not me? :)

I picked this trailer up for Father's Day last year. it was sitting in a yard on my way to work, not moving ever, so I knocked on the front door and asked what he wanted for it. $300 was his price, so I paid the man.

outside of air in the tires, the trailer is in pretty good shape. mostly surface rust, but I think half of this thing is homemade, so the angle-iron "frame" needs to be replaced at some point. also, the axle is some sort of old Ford drop steering axle that they welded the drag link to the axle itself to keep the tires straight...but hey, 5x4.5 bolt pattern, so it matches the Jeep! also, it's a drop axle, so if I ever want just a little more ground clearance, I can flip it. the wiring was probably ok, but the Jeep was blowing fuses, so I thought it was the trailer (when now i know something is wrong on the Jeep side...) so I ripped it all out.

so here I am to this point: new wiring and taillights, cleaned up the box a bit, and have been trying to get the lugs off the driver-side wheel to no avail. they're crazy rusted on there. the passenger side still had the old hubcap on, so the nuts came off no problem. I had broken 2 studs on the DS wheel, so I have spent the last 2 months PB Blasting the crap out of the other 3 in hopes of getting them loose.

here's the trailer when I picked it up:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/CD4EE9E7-60C7-4415-9D1C-575046B0E4B2_zpsqwlgb6sl.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/CD4EE9E7-60C7-4415-9D1C-575046B0E4B2_zpsqwlgb6sl.jpg.html)

and after a little clean up and the new wiring & lights:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/265F3B23-B3B6-493C-B38B-035D38E9CF7F_zpskd2kysxe.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/265F3B23-B3B6-493C-B38B-035D38E9CF7F_zpskd2kysxe.jpg.html)

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/B6A8E5EA-7633-4841-BEE7-7D03E1737A2A_zpsle74f3r5.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/B6A8E5EA-7633-4841-BEE7-7D03E1737A2A_zpsle74f3r5.jpg.html)

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/E68663A8-7B16-4EF9-9D11-022593C79C3F_zpsz9js6lqo.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/E68663A8-7B16-4EF9-9D11-022593C79C3F_zpsz9js6lqo.jpg.html)

J.

[jayson44]

yesterday, I got to go out and spend some time on the driver-side wheel lugs. I decided that they weren't coming off, so I got out the impact and broke the other 3 off. I proceeded to remove the wheel and check out how to get the hub/brake drum off. pounded the little metal cap off the end of the spindle and was very surprised to find a castle nut that looked almost new!

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/1CD30FF9-BC50-4939-A28F-D446482B447E_zpsxeccw6xm.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/1CD30FF9-BC50-4939-A28F-D446482B447E_zpsxeccw6xm.jpg.html)

even the grease looked new-ish:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/EB74A82D-4DB8-4510-B5B0-AD09F3784073_zpsgglriskw.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/EB74A82D-4DB8-4510-B5B0-AD09F3784073_zpsgglriskw.jpg.html)

removed the nut and washers and pulled the brake drum off. the whole spindle looks new as well...

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/C38A6111-DA42-42DC-8367-5AC1AE5E5CB0_zps3hqkis46.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/C38A6111-DA42-42DC-8367-5AC1AE5E5CB0_zps3hqkis46.jpg.html)

anyways...that's good news, but the bad news is that the lug studs seem to be a part of the actual drum, not pounded into the back of it. so I have no idea how to get these replaced. maybe just take them somewhere to drill them out & install new ones? :confused:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/8B20217C-1E44-4C60-823B-AF92D28520B9_zpsqtrb5lef.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/8B20217C-1E44-4C60-823B-AF92D28520B9_zpsqtrb5lef.jpg.html)

but the drum looked like it had been painted recently as well...the brown paint wasn't as worn as I thought it should be. again, maybe someone rebuild these not too long ago.

so I decided that no more progress would be made on that side until the lugs can be figured out. I moved to the passenger side and started working on removing the homemade fenders. little to report, they were simply bolted to the tub.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/CC376E17-D803-4FB4-9A6C-5B45BC121CB0_zps78uxfivw.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/CC376E17-D803-4FB4-9A6C-5B45BC121CB0_zps78uxfivw.jpg.html)

I may cut off the extensions and use the main part again if it will cover the tires when it's all said and done. there was black paint underneath so part of the tub has it on there as well.

I had purchased a set of 1 1/2" spacers to push the wheels out further since it needed it. I installed the spacer and then one of my wheels.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/E7848814-9467-4578-BE50-6F2D499BE21C_zps10fmouju.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/E7848814-9467-4578-BE50-6F2D499BE21C_zps10fmouju.jpg.html)

the spacers were just about perfect:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/D2E43CF9-A342-4DC4-9080-1C9C850FD419_zps20uiyqai.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/D2E43CF9-A342-4DC4-9080-1C9C850FD419_zps20uiyqai.jpg.html)

I went with used BFG KM2s since they matched the Jeep & 33x10.5r15s since I figured 35's were overkill for a trailer. I'm thinking I might need to trade down for 31s once it's all finished. not sure yet. then I got the other side jack stand to the same-ish height so I could see what the trailer would look like at ride height. I'm loving where it's headed!

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/E16F8EA6-7697-45DE-80CC-91F27540AC36_zpstbvxqxle.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/E16F8EA6-7697-45DE-80CC-91F27540AC36_zpstbvxqxle.jpg.html)

so now I just gotta get some studs put into the other drum and then I'll be back in business! I have lots of plans for a RTT and other stuff. I'll be painting it next spring & eventually rebuilding a frame from scratch for it. but for now, this is a good start.

J.

[Jim]

Nice.

I'd double-think those studs. They look push-out to me. Have you tried to hit them out (perhaps place a large socket around the head as support)?

[jayson44]

I banged on them pretty good with a hammer, and it didn't seem to budge them. I was thinking of trying to take my grinder to the back of the studs where the flanges are and see if I can cut the flanges off and try again. but when I look really close at the studs, it almost appears as if the metal of the screw goes right into the metal of the mounting plate...not 100% sure though. wish I knew what kind of axle this was so i could see about just getting a replacement drum off fleabay or something...

J.

[The StRanger]

Blow out one of the old studs and stop off at NAPA.
They should be able to match up some studs !

[jayson44]

is a BFH the best way to do that? I don't have an air hammer...

J.

[TTBGuy]

I'd soak them really good with PB blaster. Just hit em every day for a week. Then take a MAPP gas torch and get it real hot. Now is the time to get out the brass/steel drift and pound them out. Lots of parts stores around here have presses in the back to do rotors for people so if you find someone with a press that might be the way to go if you can't budge them yourself.

If you have access to a cutting torch you could probably burn out the centers and use a hammer and chisel from there, just be careful not to dig into the drum.

[94ToyBear]

whatcha doing with the wire wheels now?

[94ToyBear]

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_model_a/model-a-ford-wheel-hub-and-brake-drum-assembly-front.html check out what I found ! that drum looks like a ford years 1928-1931. but ! chaaaaching ! I think I have the same axle on my rat rod, but mine came with a disk break set up when I got it. look in to possibly a disk break conversion and use just the hub and bearing it might be cheaper that way, ill look at mine to see if there's any info that's is of Couse if you cant press the original studs out.

[CS79bronco]

Those studs will come out. You may need at least a 3 lb hammer. Support the drum solidly on wood blocks on concrete, use a big punch with someone holding it with long pliers, smack with both hands on the hammer. And wear safety glasses. You will find out on the first one how hard to hit to make it move, the rest will be easier. And considering the age of the studs I would replace all of them on both sides, and nuts too. The spacers will add a bit to the stress on the studs which could break the old ones. That way you should be able to match the nuts to your tow vehicle as well.

[jayson44]

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_model_a/model-a-ford-wheel-hub-and-brake-drum-assembly-front.html check out what I found ! that drum looks like a ford years 1928-1931. but ! chaaaaching ! I think I have the same axle on my rat rod, but mine came with a disk break set up when I got it. look in to possibly a disk break conversion and use just the hub and bearing it might be cheaper that way, ill look at mine to see if there's any info

close, but not quite. mine have a distinct mounting surface that is next to the drum...it's not one solid piece like those are. and dang...$315 for one of them!

Charles, I'll give that a try. I only hit them a little bit with a regular hammer, nothing too big just to see if they'd budge. I'll soak them good with PB and then see what I can come up with.

J.

[jayson44]

whatcha doing with the wire wheels now?

oh, and I was going to just put them on Craigslist to see if I could recoup some cash. not sure what they're worth...

J.

[carpenle]

A press is prob. the best way to get them out.

[Hypoid]

I have a press, here in Golden.

[jayson44]

I looked closer, and the brake drum says Centrifuse LTD for the company, and 05447 stamped on the other side. Centrifuse makes lots of drum brakes but mostly for big truck and trailer applications. so I doubt I could find another one like it.

I've got the studs soaking in PB. I'll see what I can do about getting them out first. if that fails, take it to a shop. if that fails, I'll look for a new axle. :)

J.

[94ToyBear]

oh, and I was going to just put them on Craigslist to see if I could recoup some cash. not sure what they're worth...

J.
Pm me what your wanting. I my be interested for my rat rod.

[Java]

Great trailer, so much potential!! :thumb: I like the shape of the bed, it's similar to the military themed ones but still unique, I don't think I've seen one like it. Who makes it?

[jayson44]

great question, Paul. I thought it was one of the canadian M104s or whatever, or perhaps a Bantam because of the red paint that is under all the blue and the tie-down hooks. but really, with the axle being from an old ford or mercury sedan, the frame having no VIN or markings on it whatsoever, and the homemade fenders, I really have no idea.

all I know, is I got it for WAY less than the other trailers on CL, and it looks the part. :)

J.

[CS79bronco]

Jay, after looking at the broken off studs again, you should be able to pound them out without having to use a punch. Just smack em good with at least a 3 pounder. I knocked the studs out of the drums on my RV axle, D70 dually, with a 4 lb. They were in there since '77. Not easy, but they came out with a few whacks. Solid, even support is necessary, if the drum can move it is harder to knock them out.

[jayson44]

aaaaand their out!

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/C07745D0-0200-42DA-AB47-79D047E83F9F_zpsgukjjv8w.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/C07745D0-0200-42DA-AB47-79D047E83F9F_zpsgukjjv8w.jpg.html)

a lot of PB and some good ol' pounding and they all are out. just as I suspected, the hub is separate from the drum, and was held together with the studs. here's the last of the broken studs out:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/3A831A7A-484A-4E32-A20E-4E5F149E375D_zpsiuwvfu56.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/3A831A7A-484A-4E32-A20E-4E5F149E375D_zpsiuwvfu56.jpg.html)

now to find some new studs...

J.

[CS79bronco]

I knew you'd get them out with a hard enough whack. Take one of the better ones to your parts store. They should be able to measure & get studs with the same diameter. Length & thread can be whatever you want to match it to. Common size is 1/2'-20 thread for Jeeps. That way you have the same nuts for all your wheels.

[jayson44]

yeah, gonna head to the parts store tomorrow and see what I can find.

J.

[jayson44]

so I went to Oreilly's and looked through all their boxes of studs and found a few that I thought would fit...nope. too small. also, the studs that came out of my hub are smooth and not splined. :/

so here's the plan: since I have to use spacers to get the tires out far enough away from the trailer anyways, all I have to do is get the spacers on the hub. so I think I'll just find studs that are the closest I can and use JB weld to keep them in place. then zip on the spacers and use locktight on the nuts to keep them there. once they're on, I don't really care. the wheel will come on/off with the studs from the spacers so it's no big deal. as long as the spacer stays put, I'll be happy.

thoughts or concerns about that idea? the lugs I found were just barely too small and I may be able to find ones bigger. so just getting them close and using JB to make up the extra space & hold them in there...bad idea? good idea?

J.

[Java]

Before the nickles and dimes start adding up, have you considered swapping the axle? I only speak from experience, I'm about 150.00 into my 100.00 "bargain" axle, a new one is about the same without all the work. If not new, I saw this on CL http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/4677869589.html and a few others or I bet you could get an 8.25 or d35 for next to nothing.

[jayson44]

well, the axle works great, it's the same bolt pattern as my Jeep, and the studs are the only thing I need to figure out. so for around $20 and some JB weld, I'll be back on the road (assuming my idea works).

finding another axle means figuring out the springs, bolt pattern, width, etc. a d35 or any other truck axle will be a PIG compared to what's in there now, and again, I'd have to figure out springs...

J.

[CS79bronco]

You might see if a machine shop could expand the splined portion of the studs if you can't find the right size. I wouldn't trust JB to hold them, but once they are tight & locktight applied they should be OK. The splines hold the studs in place & also keep them from turning when you tighten the nuts. If there is only a few thousandths play it shouldn't cause a problem. You could even tack weld the heads so the nuts can be tightened. IIRC the nuts holding the spacers should be re-torqued occasionally.

[jayson44]

yeah, tack welding is a thought I had. I also just thought of using bolts instead of trying to find splines that fit, but I think that getting the splines as close as I can is my best bet. tack weld if I need to. just have to find someone with a welder. :)

J.

[Hypoid]

Those studs rely on an interference fit. Even with modern equipment, the splined end is "too big." It will go into the hole with mechanical force.

[Jim]

So the classic

If it don't fit, FORCE IT

is a valid argument here :lmao:

[CS79bronco]

IIRC the next SAE size up is 5/8". You may need a good caliper to measure the hole & compare studs. Possible a metric stud would fit tight if hammered in. Like Mike said, it's supposed to be an interference fit, they should have to be forced in. But that far back, smooth studs were machined to a press fit without splines.

[jayson44]

that's what I was thinking. just get some studs that the splines are "big enough" and pound them in.

J.

[The StRanger]

Definitely get a splined shaft, If ya want for that little better security, drop a tack weld on the back .

[Java]

yeah, tack welding is a thought I had. I also just thought of using bolts instead of trying to find splines that fit, but I think that getting the splines as close as I can is my best bet. tack weld if I need to. just have to find someone with a welder. :)

J.

I'm actually doing that exact thing to my spare hub next week or so- I had one Dexter hub and one aftermarket when I got the axle, and I put spacers on with red Loctite before I realized they had slightly different mounting surface to back of the hub distances. I then upgraded to another Dexter hub, and the Loctite beat out the splines and I spun 3 of the studs taking the spacer off. If you find yourself in Denver after the 20th and want to tack them hit me up.

[jayson44]

cool, thanks Paul. I'll see what I come up with on finding some fatter studs first.

J.

[Hypoid]

If you have an impact, a few of the same thread nuts, and some washers to cover the shoulders, you can pull the studs into place. I have worn out nuts using this method, but it is easy to control the force as its being applied.

[jayson44]

ok, Oreilly's ordered the closest studs they could find and they're still too small to fit. they slide right in there, but still spin. so I'm back to filling in the extra space with JB and seeing if someone can tack them on there to help hold them.

any thoughts AGAINST this plan?

J.

[MultiScuf]

ok, Oreilly's ordered the closest studs they could find and they're still too small to fit. they slide right in there, but still spin. so I'm back to filling in the extra space with JB and seeing if someone can tack them on there to help hold them.

any thoughts AGAINST this plan?

J.
Try Advance auto parts or napa there better :P

[xaza]

Wonder if it wouldn't be better to get next size bigger lugs and ream the hole to match. Sounds like the hole may be stretched a little bit.

[redneck23ms]

i'd go to a trailer supply place and see what they can come up with. i had a similar issue with a boat trailer years ago. the button pushers at the auto parts store had no clue. 5 mins in a trailer shop and i was out the door with the right studs that i needed

[jayson44]

well, I'm the one who actually dug through every box at Oreilly's to find the closest match. the only ones that "fit" in there w/out being able to move were HUGE truck studs, probably for a dualie.

keep in mind that this is not just a trailer axle...it's a front drop axle from a 30s era chrysler...so nobody is really going to be able to just have one in stock that works.

J.

[Java]

since you're using wheel spacers and wont ever have to remove those studs (theoretically!) would it be possible to just size up some grade 8 bolts at ACE? Do they have to be actual studs?

[jayson44]

Paul, that was an idea I had. I just thought I'd use studs since they'll fit the holes better than plain bolts would...the holes are about 1/2" in diameter.

J.

[CS79bronco]

A trailer shop might have something? You might try measuring the holes with a good caliper then see what studs are slightly larger & drill the holes to accommodate the larger studs. From reading about spacers, they supposedly need re-tightening periodically so if they did get loose with regular bolts you would have to remove the hub to tighten them unless the heads were securely welded to the hub. Also, clearance might be an issue with regular bolt heads.

[Hypoid]

I advise against welding hardened bolts, even a tack weld.

At work, we used to tack weld grade 5, 1/2-inch bolts on a part that had to bear a person's weight at various times. After watching a 200 lb man step on this part and the bolts failed,we examined the bolts to find a heat zone created by the weld. The bolts failed at the edge of this heat zone. We no longer apply heat to these smaller bolts, we damage the threads at the lock nut.

We still tack weld 3/4-inch and larger bolts. I am guessing they dissipate heat well enough to not be weakened in the same way.

:2c:

[jayson44]

Charles, we took calipers to one of the original studs and found a set in the computer at Oreilly's that should have been the same size. they were just barely small...not enough to wiggle around in the hole, but small enough to spin freely.

I think that by using JB to get these stuck in there pretty good, then tacking them to the back of the drum, I should be able to zip the spacers on there and use red locktight to keep them secure. again, this is a utility/camping trailer, so it's not going to see the amount of use that my Jeep would. the spacers needing to be retorqued will be a very rare situation. I ran spacers on my CJ5 for about 2 years and never had one come loose.

J.

[CS79bronco]

I ran spacers on the Bronco in my pic here for couple years, they were still tight when I sold it a couple months ago. And no locktite. That's just what I read in the instructions, which is probably a CYA from the mfg. If there is a stud just a few thousandths larger it would be the press fit you need but there may not be one made. Maybe metric? I think what you plan should work, you can always carry a few extra studs & nuts just in case, & check them when you load up to make a run.

[jayson44]

success! I found the PERFECT studs...they're flat like the old ones and pounded in perfectly! sorry, no pics, but Oreilly's had them in stock and they were cheap to boot. pounded them in last night and zipped on the spacer. just gotta put the hub back on and put on my wheel and we're back in business!

of course, I still have to figure out my wiring issue on the Jeep...but hey! rolling trailer again! :D

J.

[xaza]

Nice! congratulations. Still available when you get around to working on the wiring. I have an extra 4 wire plug around here somewhere in case it is the problem.

[jayson44]

got the hub back together and put the other wheel on yesterday. finally got a chance to see what it looked like as a roller!

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/04248DED-DDEB-418D-B70B-DFE41A580CCE_zpswz7q5xvk.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/04248DED-DDEB-418D-B70B-DFE41A580CCE_zpswz7q5xvk.jpg.html)

it's just about the perfect size. I didn't know if the 33s would be too tall, but it has just a slight upward angle to get to the hitch, which is perfect. after these tires wear out, I may consider 32s as the perfect size.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/FE1C5CC6-73AF-40DF-AA4F-F8C5881E75D9_zpsern0ejyj.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/FE1C5CC6-73AF-40DF-AA4F-F8C5881E75D9_zpsern0ejyj.jpg.html)

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/jandkcarlson4/jeep%20stuff/C4C02F6D-4C9A-4893-9EDC-76D792FFFA17_zpsr6kg0xjq.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/jandkcarlson4/media/jeep%20stuff/C4C02F6D-4C9A-4893-9EDC-76D792FFFA17_zpsr6kg0xjq.jpg.html)

now, just need some time to check out the lights. I'm gonna get some stuff for painting it hopefully soon. not sure if I'll get it done before winter...

J.

[xaza]

Very cool. What color you painting it?

[jayson44]

probably a dark grey. I need to figure out what to do for fenders. the ones that were on there were home made. I may still be able to use parts of them, but they don't cover the whole tire. but I'm thinking dark grey w/black fenders. not sure how great of a paint job I'll give it for now. I eventually need to get a welder and build it a new frame as the one it has is pretty janky and kinda rotting. it may just be a spray can job until I can do it right.

J.

[jayson44]

HOLY TRAILER DEATH WOBBLE, BATMAN!

I took the trailer out on the road today and anything over 35-40 and the trailer starts wobbling back and forth really hard. it's totally like DW in a Jeep...it builds and builds and would eventually throw the trailer if I didn't slow down, I'm sure.

any ideas on what it could be? the tires were balanced before I put them on...

J.

[Squshiee1]

The last time i had that problem, i added more weight to the front, and it fixed it.

[xaza]

Yep, what Chase said
http://www.airliftcompany.com/workshop/how-to-load-trailer/

[jayson44]

hmm...even empty it does this. the day I bought it, the tires were low and it wobbled until I filled the original tires with more air. then it never did it, loaded or unloaded. could it be the tires I just put on? or is it definitely weight?

J.

[CS79bronco]

I would throw some weight in the front & try it again. 50-100 lbs should do it.