Towing Advice

[Java]

I'm buying Chris' trailer and plan to tow it, atleast for the time being, with my LJ. It's rated for 3500 lbs, the trailer is about 2700 dry and has brakes. It's right at the 85% safety margin I've read about, so it seems like weight-wise it's acceptable, if not ideal. Long term I'll consider a tow rig, but it's the Jeep for now.

What would be the absolute safest setup for me? Nothing is off the table, Jeep or trailer upgrades. I'm not saying money is no object, it certainly is (especially after surprising my wife with a trailer!) but I'd rather have a little debt than a big accident.

Thank you!!

[Chris]

Paul, a brake controller is a must as it activates the trailer brakes, a weight-distributing hitch helps a lot to by redistributing the weight on the tongue. The good news is the trailer has the connections already. You'd just need the hitch and bars reducing the cost considerably. Better yet, if I find I don't need it for my new trailer we can work something out the the parts you'll need. Mine doesn't have the anti-sway bar but I've found it's not needed on this light of a trailer.

The only additional thought is reducing stress on the tranny by not using OD if you have an automatic to keep it from hunting for the right gear going over the hills. With a manual it's smart to use a lower gear.

[southpaws3]

X2 w/ chris! now learn the trailer (get into the axles keep them GREASED nothing worse than losing a wheel ANYWHERE, BRAKES make sure you get a 2nd set on stand by(if you have) i use the trailer brakes ALOT (10-25%) brake setting , look into your truck gearing , BIG tranny cooler-if auto, always take tranny out of OD (what chris said) BEST WISHES

[Java]

My jeep is manual, and I'll be taking it slow and careful! I have no doubt its well maintained, but I'll go through it anyway and check GREASE and BRAKES! :thumb:

What am I missing...

Brake controller
Weight distributing hitch
anti sway bar
spare brake kit
spare hub kit

[Patrolman]

That is the bulk of it. Congrats! I am sure you won't be disappointed. The brakes will be very nice to have. Wish mine had them.

[gm4x4lover]

What do you have done to the jeep? What size tires and what gears?

[Java]

The Jeep is a 2006 Unlimited, 4.0 6 speed, 2.5" lift, 1" body lift, 33x12.50 duratracs, truetracs f/r, 3:73 diffs. First gear is 4:30 or so. I've towed small trailers easily, I'm not too worried, just want the safest setup. Chris is selling me his WDH, I'll add a sway bar and a controller.

While looking into towing with a wrangler I found a thread where a guy in Germany says the TJ is rated for 4400 lbs there, but you have to take a class / road test for anything over 1800 lbs and the speed limit is 50 mph while towing. It gets pretty bitchy, one guy doesn't agree with Germany... http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/towing-small-trailer-my-tj-415467/

[gm4x4lover]

Pretty entertaining. The guy from Germany was pretty nice about what the wrangler was speced at in Germany. The two guys from the USA not so nice.

You may find that 33's and 3.73 gears are not a good combo for towing. It won't make it a safety issue but you may have to go slower.

[Java]

I hesitantly say the 3:73s are going to be OK because of the low first gear, but I won't know until I actually try it. I didn't really use 1st gear with 31s, 33s are just right for regular use, but adding around 3000lbs will surely change something. My real concern is I-70 to Moab, both going up the big hills and coming down them. We're looking for good places to take it that aren't too far to test it out. It's all really wait and see, but I'm optimistic. :thumb:

[Jim]

You can always do a haul to Idaho Springs - two large hills that will be a good, close test.

[Java]

That's almost the deep end of the pool, if I can get to Idaho Springs without my brown pants it should be academic from there. :thumb:

[Patrolman]

Just change the rear tires back to 31's when you are towing up/down hills. :)

[Brad]

I've got a brake controller Pete gave me for free and I have no plans for. It's yours if you want it!

[dieseldoc]

So the gear set wont be friendly to towing.
4:10 is the right set.
I have to '04 tj 4.0 and the 5 speed nv3550 so we have the same 1st gear.
We are running 33's and 4:10 gears the first gear is stupid at mosttimes but the highway 5th gear is able to pull the truck around. I have ad a small trailer 2100#'s with my tools on it.
Tool box shipping weight is 490#'s and the few thousand pounds of tools and we are quickly in to the 4000 lb range. The jeep did pull them around town no issues. The pulls I have done up 285 with a pair of quads and honda 250 were totaly 3rd gear and the right lane.

Now your trailer is 85% of the raited tow for the wrangler.
This leaves you little room for putting gear and such on it.
7 day desert trip you need 65 gallons of water for 2 people.
7lbs a gallon and bam you are overweight.
7x65=455
now add your gear food tools all the stuff you need for a trip of that size.
say 1500 total pounds of gear and the trailer curb weight and now your jeep is not enough.

Sorry to be negative about your plans but the TJ is not that heavy and trailering is a huge deal.
I am a DOT certified mechanic so I see some scarry things for sure.
The fed has changed te combined weight that requires a CDL add a trailer and at 11,000# and now you have to have the truck DOT inspected carry a log book and stop at the PORT.
Hell my service truck even with it being mine and for private use, any travel over 100 miles and bam DOT log book and a CDL.
All this is due to the many fly by night dudes that haul a skid steer on a small flat bed behind a 3/4ton truck.....its all the combined weight look at the spec for COMBINED TOTAL WEIGHT RATE this is the all important number.
if the curb weight of the jeep trail and all gear is over that you are to small and need a bigger truck.

You are headed in the right direction with the WDH as it makes the truck use the front end as well.
And the break controler is huge. Tune it as you drive as you will load it different all the time.
One piont be suee the trailer sits level, if the tounge is high or low you will draw attention from state patrol. Some states have ticket laws for this condition. Its all about loading it evenly.
Tie dows are a regulated deal as well. Bigger is always better.
1500# dirt bike requires 4-500 lb straps!
Is the break system set up with a break-a-way?? This is DOT required. The saftey thing is the cheep part the battery for it is not so much. But as it will stop you trailer should it ever get away the fact is if is a fraction of the cost it could be.
Tires-so many people use car tires on a trailer.....please dont!
Trailers are set up very differently. Tires heat up different and load very differently.
This is one area that small trailer usres think they save money.
a set of used car tires $50 cool good price....tell you toss one at 55mph dont know it as its on the trailer and you pull this for 50 plus miles tell someone honks at you....
now the wheel is trashed your stuck 100 miles from some place to fix it and bam $250 later you get back on the road just to blow the other side in a day or so....
Use the right tires.....they are built tk handle the strees the street s will put them through.

My 2 cents....

[Patrolman]

7 day desert trip you need 65 gallons of water for 2 people.
7lbs a gallon and bam you are overweight.
7x65=455

That is why when we have done extended trips through Utah, and needed large amounts of water, we typically take the containers empty from Denver, and fill up at our last hotel stay. Typically we hotel in Green River, so it is close to where we hit the dirt. Avoids carrying un-needed weight over I-70.

[dieseldoc]

Yup. Always the way to it. We even stop in the last major city for food. We keep weight down and food keeps better that way.

[Chris]

He has the WDH, new trailer tires and the breakaway so those are taken care of. Paul's WDH is adjustable for hitch height so that's something he probably needs to adjust since I'm sure his Jeep sits differently than my 4Runner. They key is just making sure it's level when hitched, correct?

[dieseldoc]

Yes. The WDH will help that a ton but pay attention to how the weight is front to back.
Good to hear its all set up with good tires the break a way and hitch.
The jeep sits lower than the 4runner so the slide in part of the jeep side might need flipped over.
Thhe breaks on the jeep an not known for being realy good so lots of space in front of you is always good.

[gm4x4lover]

Double post.

[gm4x4lover]

So the gear set wont be friendly to towing.
4:10 is the right set.
I have to '04 tj 4.0 and the 5 speed nv3550 so we have the same 1st gear.
We are running 33's and 4:10 gears the first gear is stupid at mosttimes but the highway 5th gear is able to pull the truck around. I have ad a small trailer 2100#'s with my tools on it.
Tool box shipping weight is 490#'s and the few thousand pounds of tools and we are quickly in to the 4000 lb range. The jeep did pull them around town no issues. The pulls I have done up 285 with a pair of quads and honda 250 were totaly 3rd gear and the right lane.

Now your trailer is 85% of the raited tow for the wrangler.
This leaves you little room for putting gear and such on it.
7 day desert trip you need 65 gallons of water for 2 people.
7lbs a gallon and bam you are overweight.
7x65=455
now add your gear food tools all the stuff you need for a trip of that size.
say 1500 total pounds of gear and the trailer curb weight and now your jeep is not enough.

Sorry to be negative about your plans but the TJ is not that heavy and trailering is a huge deal.
I am a DOT certified mechanic so I see some scarry things for sure.
The fed has changed te combined weight that requires a CDL add a trailer and at 11,000# and now you have to have the truck DOT inspected carry a log book and stop at the PORT.
Hell my service truck even with it being mine and for private use, any travel over 100 miles and bam DOT log book and a CDL.
All this is due to the many fly by night dudes that haul a skid steer on a small flat bed behind a 3/4ton truck.....its all the combined weight look at the spec for COMBINED TOTAL WEIGHT RATE this is the all important number.
if the curb weight of the jeep trail and all gear is over that you are to small and need a bigger truck.

You are headed in the right direction with the WDH as it makes the truck use the front end as well.
And the break controler is huge. Tune it as you drive as you will load it different all the time.
One piont be suee the trailer sits level, if the tounge is high or low you will draw attention from state patrol. Some states have ticket laws for this condition. Its all about loading it evenly.
Tie dows are a regulated deal as well. Bigger is always better.
1500# dirt bike requires 4-500 lb straps!
Is the break system set up with a break-a-way?? This is DOT required. The saftey thing is the cheep part the battery for it is not so much. But as it will stop you trailer should it ever get away the fact is if is a fraction of the cost it could be.
Tires-so many people use car tires on a trailer.....please dont!
Trailers are set up very differently. Tires heat up different and load very differently.
This is one area that small trailer usres think they save money.
a set of used car tires $50 cool good price....tell you toss one at 55mph dont know it as its on the trailer and you pull this for 50 plus miles tell someone honks at you....
now the wheel is trashed your stuck 100 miles from some place to fix it and bam $250 later you get back on the road just to blow the other side in a day or so....
Use the right tires.....they are built tk handle the strees the street s will put them through.

My 2 cents....

90% of this post is wrong and please don't listen to it. I am not going to pick it apart piece by piece but I do agree with the thought of 3.73's aren't geared low enough. It's not a safety issue so that's something you will learn through trial and error. Beyond that enjoy your camper and don't let your camper scare the cap out of you. Towing is simple and easy. It's not something that needs to be over thought.

[Java]

Brad- thank you so much for the offer, I've already ordered one. Great offer, you're awesome. :thumb:

Thanks for your 2 cents, everyone! I asked for advice, not puppies and kittens. :)

NV3550
4.04/2.33/1.38/1.00/0.78 with 3.75 reverse

NSG370
4.46/2.61/1.72/1.25/1.00/0.84 with 4.06 reverse

We're at about the same place in 1st, and I have no idea how it will translate yet. If I do regear I'm going 456, but that's another thread. I share some of your concerns, but the check is written. :) it's within specs and I'm not going over 50 mph. and carefully at that. Time will tell!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkewkvU8Ot8

[dieseldoc]

You should be fine. As always with travel check over your stuff. And that goes both way trailer or not.

[dieseldoc]

90% of this post is wrong and please don't listen to it. I am not going to pick it apart piece by piece but I do agree with the thought of 3.73's aren't geared low enough. It's not a safety issue so that's something you will learn through trial and error. Beyond that enjoy your camper and don't let your camper scare the cap out of you. Towing is simple and easy. It's not something that needs to be over thought.

So pick it apart. I deal with DOT every day....if this is so wrong pick it apart.
this is all saftey and legal issue for towing.
With the things the DOT has changed in the last 2 years that 90% of the people out there dont know.
sure go ahead pick it apart.
show me what you think you know.

[xaza]

I would look to upgrade your brakes in the Jeep if they have not been done already. Leave a little extra room because the trailer brakes do not stop it, in fact all they do is a little assist to prevent back end from passing you under heavy braking. Some people try to apply too much pressure through brake controller which locks wheels in heavy braking and ruins trailer brakes that aren't designed for as much use as a vehicle pad. As was mentioned previously load the weight into the front otherwise under braking it will attempt to lift rear of vehicle. Typically vehicles using a WDH have an increased tow capacity (hitch rating anyway). For my Cherokee hitch it is increased by 1000 lbs to 6K. Again that is hitch rating, I would not tow 6K in my Cherokee over a pass. Get mirror extensions, you want to be able to see around the trailer and not be a hazard on the road. Have fun getting to know your trailer, might be a little skittish at first but within a few trips you'll feel like a pro. I think you will find this trailer a little big for your truck but it will depend on your driving style. I can possibly help you with installing the brake controller and correct plug if you need. Uhaul has a few you tube videos for trailer safety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po3fdlIZmek&list=PLsRhKkP8r60TXtAG2N4J0MA_2-Qw-kSZs&feature=player_detailpage

[Java]

Thanks Cliff! I'm looking at an EBC kit in another window now. I have an A/C question- the cooling fins on the A/C were hail damaged, they are all flattened but still there and Chris says it all works. Is there a good fix? I can post a pic later, but basically the shroud is gone and the radiator looking thing got nailed.

There is a question in the LJ community about towing- the LJ is longer and heavier than an XJ, but with a lower tow rating. I'm not an engineer, can't answer it myself, but here are some stats from this page http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/why-cant-lj-tow-much-xj-381986/ :

Now let's compare the towing variables of my 2004 LJ to a 2002 XJ:



Engine - both have 4.0L (tie)
Transmission - both have 4-speed automatic (tie)
Wheelbase - LJ is 2" longer (advantage LJ)
Curb weight - LJ is 366 lbs. heavier (advantage LJ)
Limited slip - LJ yes, XJ no (advantage LJ)
Brakes - LJ has 4-wheel disc, does the XJ?? (advantage LJ??)
Towing capacity - LJ is 3,500 lbs. XJ is 5,000 lbs. WTF???

[gm4x4lover]

Is the towing specs listed by jeep exactly the same for the TJ as it is the lj?

[RidgeRunner]

Now let's compare the towing variables of my 2004 LJ to a 2002 XJ:



Engine - both have 4.0L (tie)
Transmission - both have 4-speed automatic (tie)
Wheelbase - LJ is 2" longer (advantage LJ)
Curb weight - LJ is 366 lbs. heavier (advantage LJ)
Limited slip - LJ yes, XJ no (advantage LJ)
Brakes - LJ has 4-wheel disc, does the XJ?? (advantage LJ??)
Towing capacity - LJ is 3,500 lbs. XJ is 5,000 lbs. WTF???



There was no 2002 XJ. Last year for the XJ Cherokee was 2001. Could they be talking about a different model or a non US version?

Only other difference I can think of is that the XJ has a leaf spring rear end vs. links & coils on the LJ.

The is no way I would have ever put 5k behind my old XJ. The stock brakes sucked bad enough with just 33" tires.

[Rick]

I have an A/C question- the cooling fins on the A/C were hail damaged, they are all flattened but still there and Chris says it all works. Is there a good fix? Happened on mine and i just spent an hour on the roof with a radiator comb and did the best I could...Worked fine after that...I found a used plastic cover for it at an RV junk yard up in Commerce City

[dieseldoc]

Fin comb....and a ton of time.
a good cover for when its stored is a great idea.

[Java]

Is the towing specs listed by jeep exactly the same for the TJ as it is the lj?

no, TJ 2000 lbs, LJ 3500, I'd guess purely based on wheelbase.

[Java]

got a fin comb coming from amazon, along with 3 roof vents- two are shot, hail damage, and as it turns out I can put a vent right into the A/C hole; I'm going to remove the A/C, I doubt I'd ever use it anyway, and keep it in my garage for the next owner, or whatever.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XDCiu6h1hk

but this is the real big deal that I'm facing, the back of the floor is rotted out in an area just under 40" x 60". I considered putting a patch over it, but whether I keep this for 5 years or sell it next week I'd like to do the right job. The steel frame is solid, it's just OSB and 2x4s. I've done this job twice on boats, once the bad is cut out it's not too tough at all. This guy has a good write up:

http://www.corgifan.com/trailerrepair/

[southpaws3]

what about that goofy plastic a/c storage cover ?? has anybody used that while traveling NOT just in storage ? my camper a/c is in the rear i use a storage cover (plastic blanket) but i'm always over cautious worrying about the a/c never done anything yet:bang: knock on wood ... as for that gearing i believe somebody posted 4.10-4.56 that is great gearing .. IMO i tend to go deeper just to take the strain off the drive line . 2 examples then i'll get off my soap box, 2000 GMC k1500 suburban 33x12.50x16 automatic tranny 4.56 gears yes we tow and drive the hell out of it 240000 miles all original drive line - 70 MPH 1900RPM still gets 18-20 on road. 1988 GMC 2500 suburban 39x16x16 4.88 gears 5spd manual yep it tows too (my daily driver) plus we tow camper on trails gets 13 70MPH 2500RPM whether running,off,loaded,empty same same BEST OF LUCK HOPE TO SEE YOU ON THE TRAILS..