Wanted: New TOYota 4Runner

[TxCowgirlInCo]

Hey everyone! I've hesitated posting this for a few weeks, but decided it's time. I've decided it's time for another Toy in my garage. Considering the fact that I have limited tools here in Co (and no real work space) I'm kinda open to the idea of an already modded truck. (yes, I am fully aware of the negatives of buying pre-modded and will be exceptionally careful ;). Sure I can mod one out exactly the way I want, however if the right truck came along, I'd be open to it, esp if it was being sold by someone that's known in the group (or family, friend, etc...) so, if you guys would just keep your ears to the ground and let me know if you hear of any up for sale, I'd be very appreciative! I'm not picky on year or gen, but would honestly prefer a 1st-3rd gen (the 02 3rd gens are great). I currently have an '05 4th gen as my everyday driver and just don't love the body changes. Pricewise, that's flexbile...really depends on the truck. With that said, I think a fully customized $70k truck with cable & satellite isn't in my wheelhouse, but otherwise I'm quite flexible!
Thanks so much for keeping your eyes peeled!:D

Leila

[Jim]

Best wishes with the hunt!

As one who "bought" vs. "built" - the ONE item I would have wished to get with the jeep would be a parts list of what I purchased. If you could get that with any built rig, it can make life easier (otherwise the sleuthing will happen on each mod'd part).

[dieseldoc]

I greatly agree with J8m.
Buying can be just fine.
But if you dont know where the parts come from you will be doing a ton of work.

A direction....
KSL.com
Look in the classified section and sub section for rock buggies.
These Utah folks have good deals for sure.
The market there is lower priced that here to.
You should be able to find something worth the trip.
Example:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=678&ad=37493527&cat=402&lpid=3
There is a few more on there

Good luck

[94ToyBear]

If your on facebook there a group called budget built yota crawlers. Yota freaks live on there and post great classifieds ads.

[94ToyBear]

Also when you say first gen are you speaking of an 1985 or 86 to 88?

[TxCowgirlInCo]

As one who "bought" vs. "built" - the ONE item I would have wished to get with the jeep would be a parts list of what I purchased. If you could get that with any built rig, it can make life easier (otherwise the sleuthing will happen on each mod'd part).


Well Jim, You're not the first to say that... so yes my caution alarm is ready to sound! I have always, in past, customized my own rigs...however I have seen a lot of modded vehicles here and (the smart ones ;) ) they seem to have similar characteristics.... with that said, I am very cautious and have a gal - Total Toy expert - to go with me to check out vehicles....As far as low range mods...I may need more research b/c the things we held cherry in TX for mods are FAR different for the rock crawling mods needed here. I'm open to learning and discovering more here. It seems like ALL Toy owners here go for Marlin Crawlers... which do look awesome btw... It'll be a learning curve that's for sure, so please feel free to poke fun at my mistakes along with the way!

[dieseldoc]

You have a good platform from witch to start.
Toys are great trucks.
As for the dubblers marlin built them first and he does the best work.
Trail Gear is a discount house they get things built in china. They will wait tell copyright laws alow they will then go make the parts in china and market them cheeper......

Now LowRange Offroad is a great place to get your parts.
They bulk buy so they can market low cost on quality parts.
And they build there own stuff to play using the stuff they sell.

The biggest thing with toy stuff is dont go over the magic 5.29 gears.
The pinion gets way to small after that and the fail on the street.

Axle housings are getting hatd to find so if you intend to SAS if its not already been done. I would start l looking right away.

[TxCowgirlInCo]

KSL.com
Look in the classified section and sub section for rock buggies.
These Utah folks have good deals for sure.
The market there is lower priced that here to.
You should be able to find something worth the trip.
Example:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=678...cat=402&lpid=3
There is a few more on there

Good luck

Brandon, Thanks so much for those links and suggestions. Sorry for the delay. The last few days got a little nuts! I'm definitely going to be looking!

[TxCowgirlInCo]

If your on facebook there a group called budget built yota crawlers. Yota freaks live on there and post great classifieds ads.

Awesome, thank you! I'm gonna check them out now. Much appreciated!

[TxCowgirlInCo]

Also when you say first gen are you speaking of an 1985 or 86 to 88?

Well I'd originally thought anything from 86 to the 3rd gen 02's would be ok, but after a bit of research, talking to some other avid Toy lovers, I think with what I want to do - or end up, that the 1st gens may not work for me. So I'm thinking now of anything btw the 89 and 02. Thanks!

[Chris]

You know to look here, right? http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-vehicles/

[Patrolman]

Well I'd originally thought anything from 86 to the 3rd gen 02's would be ok, but after a bit of research, talking to some other avid Toy lovers, I think with what I want to do - or end up, that the 1st gens may not work for me. So I'm thinking now of anything btw the 89 and 02. Thanks!

The 4Runner generations do not correspond with the truck generations. The 4Runner started the 2nd gen in 1990. The 1st gen was 1985-1989.

If you decide you want to consider a 1st gen, there have been several 1985 models recently that I have seen for sale. They are the only year offered with a solid axle. The other thing to keep in mind is that the 1st gen is the only model to have a removable hardtop. Soft tops are optional from aftermarket vendors. Personally, I drive a 1st gen and absolutely love it. The factory engine options are limited, but the 22re engine (4 cylinder) is bullet proof.

As for the 2nd generation, they have their place, but the 3rd gen was a HUGE improvement in engines and drivability. Not that the 2nd gens are bad, but I would opt for a 3rd gen rather than a 2nd gen. Many people do engine swaps to install an engine from a 3rd gen into a 2nd gen. You might as well just start with the 3rd gen. Keep in mind the 3rd gen started half way through 95 (95.5). Since they had all new engines and suspension, they are easy to differentiate.

Hope that you find what you are looking for! Post here if you have more questions!

[dieseldoc]

You are welcome. Good luck with your search.

[94ToyBear]

Post what you find so we can help.

I personally stay away from any 3.0 engines years 89-95
Stick with a 22re or like Jeff said go for a 3rd gen, they have been poping up on craigslist pretty offten

[Haku]

I might have a connection for you for a 1997 3rd Gen. I bought one at an impound auction a while back and ended up trading it to a friend for a car lift and some pallet racking plus some cash but he hasn't really used it and wants to sell it now.

Its a good runner, relatively low miles (150k or so....these regularly go above 300k) and we installed an elocker axle in it. We never got around to wiring the elocker so that will need to get figured out, and its got a few other issues with the interior, but otherwise its a good truck. I think its a great mix of enough power with the v6 still coupled with it being an allright size for Colorado wheeling. With a few upgrades and some armor, it does really well.

I do like the 4th gens though. Interior is nicer, comes with a V8 option, and is just a nicer driving vehicle in general. They are more expensive though.

I have a 1st Gen 4runner as well with the 22re. Not looking to sell it, but its cheap and easy to work on. I paid $1300 for it, threw a couple of bumpers on it, put dual cases in it and welded the rear end, and it can do most trails around Colorado without much effort. I did a week in Moab with it as well, and it did admirably (even got to tow a newish Jeep out that had its power steering pump literally blow up). I think I have less then $3k into it, but its kind of my "spare parts" 4runner since most of the stuff that I upgraded came from my 88 Pickup rock crawler that is MUCH more built up.

Let me know if you are interested in the 3rd gen and I'll hook you up with my buddy.

[dieseldoc]

The 3.o is not that bad an engine.
And many of the trucks still have not had the recall for the head gasgets.
They are enimick at best. But the trucks are easy to find and will accept the 4.3l bowtie.
There is a first gen with the SAS a 4.3l w/4l80e trans and toy t-case on 33's with lockers for 3k on ksl

[94ToyBear]

No its not a bad eninge, but its not a good engine either compaired to a 22re or 3.4. I think with the proper service to thecooling systems, timing belt and water pump you will be fine. The over heating a MPG seem to be the worst part and the Hp is a little over a 22re. Just not worth it imo

[dieseldoc]

I agree with you on it not being a worthy engine.
Wow 25 more hp than a 4 banger....realy and 14mpg if your lucky.
The 3.4l is a far better engine and they build great power.
Super charge them and look out your in the small v8 range now.
The nice thing is the runners with that engine are getting to be resonably priced.

[94ToyBear]

Yup yup yup.

[Patrolman]

Don't forget the 3rz in the 3rd gen 4Runners. It is a 4 cylinder, but a huge improvement in power over the 22re, and just as reliable.

[dieseldoc]

Ya the 4 poper made more power than the 3.o v6 by like 5 hp but still...
Its a good engine for sure.
I still want to see Toyota bring there diesel engines here.....

The origanal hilux re born....
The new style etc truck with a reliable easy to maintain diesel engine a soild axle at both ends and bam
Sell like hot cakes....

[TxCowgirlInCo]

If your on facebook there a group called budget built yota crawlers.

Adam, do you by chance have a link to the group? I searched on FB but... lol - I'm definitely no FB Expert. Thanks a million!

[TxCowgirlInCo]

You have a good platform from witch to start.
Toys are great trucks.
As for the dubblers marlin built them first and he does the best work.
Trail Gear is a discount house they get things built in china. They will wait tell copyright laws alow they will then go make the parts in china and market them cheeper......

Now LowRange Offroad is a great place to get your parts.
They bulk buy so they can market low cost on quality parts.
And they build there own stuff to play using the stuff they sell.

The biggest thing with toy stuff is dont go over the magic 5.29 gears.
The pinion gets way to small after that and the fail on the street.

Axle housings are getting hatd to find so if you intend to SAS if its not already been done. I would start l looking right away.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts re: Marlin's I've been doing a lot of reading and def think that's the way I'd want to go. I have bookmarked LowRange OR and have started the (re)search on doing an SAS in the 2nd & 3rd gens. I def want to start looking at parts and hopefully will know what parts I'm looking for by the end of next week. I'm going to be traveling this week and have a friend going to eyeball and get a mechanics check on a Toy I'm very interested in. I need to get to my computer to pull up the spreadsheet of everything that's been done to the truck, but it's a very viable option... Flying into Phoenix, hoping to drive back to Tx and then home (fingers crossed)!!!

Speaking of which, with all the Toy 'kits' available out there, have you ever used them or just buy parts individually? Thanks for re-affirming that 5.29 is the magic number, I'd kinda decided that's where I want to be on 35's. Do you by chance know of or recommend a shop/mechanic to do the re-gearing?

Thanks again for all the great info!

[TxCowgirlInCo]

You know to look here, right? http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-vehicles/

Thanks Chris! Somehow, I'd managed to miss that particular site. :eek: Much appreciated!

[TxCowgirlInCo]

The 4Runner generations do not correspond with the truck generations. The 4Runner started the 2nd gen in 1990. The 1st gen was 1985-1989.

If you decide you want to consider a 1st gen, there have been several 1985 models recently that I have seen for sale. They are the only year offered with a solid axle. The other thing to keep in mind is that the 1st gen is the only model to have a removable hardtop. Soft tops are optional from aftermarket vendors. Personally, I drive a 1st gen and absolutely love it. The factory engine options are limited, but the 22re engine (4 cylinder) is bullet proof.

As for the 2nd generation, they have their place, but the 3rd gen was a HUGE improvement in engines and drivability. Not that the 2nd gens are bad, but I would opt for a 3rd gen rather than a 2nd gen. Many people do engine swaps to install an engine from a 3rd gen into a 2nd gen. You might as well just start with the 3rd gen. Keep in mind the 3rd gen started half way through 95 (95.5). Since they had all new engines and suspension, they are easy to differentiate.

Hope that you find what you are looking for! Post here if you have more questions!

You Rock Jeff! Thanks for clarifying the generation differences and for all of the info. There seems to be pros & cons to a 1st or 3rd gen. I really like the idea of the solid front axles in the 85's but most would probably need engine & tranny work...on the flip side, a 3rd gen is more likely to be mechanically sound but is going to involve the project of a SAS. I'll look for the 85's you mentioned were listed and see what's out there! Thank you again!!! :)

[TxCowgirlInCo]

Post what you find so we can help.

I personally stay away from any 3.0 engines years 89-95
Stick with a 22re or like Jeff said go for a 3rd gen, they have been poping up on craigslist pretty offten

Thank you SO very much! I so appreciate y'all taking time to help me out! :D

[TxCowgirlInCo]

I might have a connection for you for a 1997 3rd Gen. I bought one at an impound auction a while back and ended up trading it to a friend for a car lift and some pallet racking plus some cash but he hasn't really used it and wants to sell it now.

Its a good runner, relatively low miles (150k or so....these regularly go above 300k) and we installed an elocker axle in it. We never got around to wiring the elocker so that will need to get figured out, and its got a few other issues with the interior, but otherwise its a good truck. I think its a great mix of enough power with the v6 still coupled with it being an allright size for Colorado wheeling. With a few upgrades and some armor, it does really well.

I would most definitely be interested in getting more info and checking it out! I'm out of town for the next ten days or so (with a possible long layover back here on Tue) but would be otherwise available via email/phone. Thanks for mentioning it!


I did a week in Moab with it as well, and it did admirably (even got to tow a newish Jeep out that had its power steering pump literally blow up).

This I love! It's always great to see Toys on the trail doing as well or better than Jeeps, lol! :D Don't get me wrong I'm not Jeep averse - almost bought one when I first got here - I'm just a Toy girl)

[TxCowgirlInCo]

The 3.o is not that bad an engine.

There is a first gen with the SAS a 4.3l w/4l80e trans and toy t-case on 33's with lockers for 3k on ksl

Thanks for the info! I'm going to find the listing on the first gen on ksl now! Thank You so much!

[TxCowgirlInCo]

I agree with you on it not being a worthy engine.
Wow 25 more hp than a 4 banger....realy and 14mpg if your lucky.
The 3.4l is a far better engine and they build great power.
Super charge them and look out your in the small v8 range now.
The nice thing is the runners with that engine are getting to be resonably priced.

Yeah I like the idea of more power (who doesn't lol), better MPG, less mechanical work needed, etc... I am seeing that a good percent of already modded 4Rs either have the 3.4 or they do an engine swap. I've seen a few 85's with the Solid axle with a swapped 3rd gen engine... best of both worlds :)

[TxCowgirlInCo]

Don't forget the 3rz in the 3rd gen 4Runners. It is a 4 cylinder, but a huge improvement in power over the 22re, and just as reliable.

That's the 2.7L right?

[Haku]

That's the 2.7L right?

Yes....the 4 cylinder in Tacoma's and 3rd Gen 4runners is the 2.7 which is the 3rz. The V6 is 3.4l and is referenced as the 5vze-fe. As I recall, the 4 cylinder mostly (or exclusively possibly) came in the 2wd version of the 3rd Gen 4runner but came in a bunch of different styles of Tacoma. The vast majority of 3rd gen 4runners are V6 though.

I think you also might be surprised how well they will do with IFS. SAS is cool, but it comes with downside for the daily driver. Addicted Offroad up in Ft. Collins is the SAS guru for Toyota's in Colorado and they have done a number of them on 3rd Gen's. Not cheap though, probably gonna start at $10k just for the upgrade.

Just out of curiosity, but have you looked at FJ80's? If you get the right one, it comes with elocked solid axles front and rear and does an admirable job as a daily driver that can haul some gear/people and still do really well offroad.

[94ToyBear]

Im not sure of your mechanical back ground but coming from a guy about 4 years in the prosses of doing a sas
it would have been nice to have something allready set up. Im not the person to let someone do the work for me. My project ended up being a whole drive train, and power train swap on one tons. And im still a long ways away to driving it out the drive way, but im only about 2 or 3 deep with the parts..so if your not able to do the work your self you will be diging deep in your pocket to get something sas'd for you.
Mose cases you can find something done and rolling for half that price.

[94ToyBear]

https://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/5316869585.html

I think Josh has the best point out of all of us ! Heres an example of what you can find out there. I dont know to much about the fj80 other then i want one someday.
You got the solid axle front and rear, you got power from the inline 6, it will be more reliable, and the resale will allways be there. This particular fj80 Its about 10k less then building one 5k+ less then buying a sas 4r. And its most likely ready to play with. Would i go after this one in the link, probably not due the the mileage and it being an automatic, but i have not done research on these automatics before.
On a good note i do like that it has OBD2!

[94ToyBear]

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5332950303.html
Heres one already set up to have fun with !

[94ToyBear]

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5306470407.html

I think this one is over priced, but it has lower miles, is locked and looks nice. Only tjing i dont like is the price and it being a 95 (non OBD2)

[94ToyBear]

Is your set on something older but want EFI check this out https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5326017316.html

[Patrolman]

Here are some 85 4Runners (some are called 1984, which is a bit of a debate).

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5299047160.html

This particular one is already nicely built, and even has an engine swap. The 7mge is a inline 6 from a Toyota Supra, so it is a bit power improvement over the 22re 4 cylinder. It is still fuel injected and still Toyota. It is a popular swap for the 1st gens.

https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/cto/5326705657.html

[dieseldoc]

Leila if you are not getting SAS truck start looking for the front axle now!
I cant say it enough they are getting hard to find.
All folks swaping there hi-lux or runner have made there axles few and far between now.

As for the swap its self, kit it the way to go as the supplier will have all the little stuff in the kit and will come with good instructions.
Again this is a get what you payed for.....the kits that use alcan sprinfs are the ones to use.
The 3 inch kits use a heavy duty stiff spring......very stiff ride intown.
The 5 inck kits are nicely tuneable. Take out the 2 smaller leafs and bam same hight as the 3 inch kit with a better riding spring.

Something to think about is the end use.....how much gear are you going to have in it.
As was mentioned before the FJ80s are a good truck.....even better as a axle donar....
They are full float 1ton....they are radius arm set up and lockers are generaly present.
So find the truck you like get some fj80 axles and get'r built.
The FJ guys are running big v8 and 40's on these axles.
The birfield bells have a cromo replacement....400 each side
But yet the guys at IH8MUD are v8'ed and 40's on stock fronts and rears.
Plus these are wider axles and the same bolt patern so realy good for swappijg.
The FJ60 (mid 80's 4door) are ok and have good support are strong...but as strong as FJ80 stuff.

The steering kits you see all over the place are using FJ80 tie rod ends.....

Back to the 4runners....
The coil sprung rears will like the FJ80 medium rate coils from oldman Emu these are great springs and will get the tail end done for resionable cost.....2nd gen body with the coil rear 3.ool

The fact >s that there are tons of these out there and done.
Find what you like and what direction you want it to go and build it,
The cost is high if you have to farm it all out.....
But there are great folks here in the club that will help as well.

As for my experience with SAS work slow and be sure to have all your parts ready
The more time you take to get the right parts the first time the better it will comeout.

[dieseldoc]

Here is the one that is 4.3l swapped....3k for it is not bad.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=678&ad=36729160&cat=402&lpid=2

As for your question about getting gears done. With tos being droppout 3rds....
Buy they built and complete. These leaves you spairs to build and keep on the shelf for that opps moment. Its not if its when....

For the money I like the 4.3l swapped 1st gen...
Just comes down to do you need 4 door?

[dieseldoc]

https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/cto/5326705657.html

Reposting this one as its a realy clean one. The 3.ol i6 is a great engine.
More torque in the inline.
Its not a cheep one but its all there and done well. As the poster says its ready for the front locker...
And once the front is locked it will want hydro assistance to turn them 37's.

[Haku]

I'll agree with most that its worth buying a built rig and just go wheeling. I've spent a ton of time and money building my crawler.

Not sure I would qualfy the FJ80 axles as "1 ton". Yes, the rear is full float, but its uses a 9.5" ring and pinion but is much small then a Dana 60/Sterling/14 Bolt. That said, its plenty strong and can be found with an elocker. The front is definitely not a 1 ton, as it uses the same 8" ring and pinion size as the 4runner's and Pickup's, just in high pinion instead of low/mid.

There are options beyond finding a donor axle, and its a good way to go these days. If you are going to SAS something and want it to be easy, as much as I'm not a fan of everything they do Trail Gear has some good SAS kits for various years of 4runner. Some of them come with absolutely everything you need including a fully built axle and suspension and the stuff to retrofit.

IMHO though, unless you are set on big tires and want to get full offroad performance, adding some upper a-arms and getting good shocks to match goes a long ways towards making it a very capable vehicle without having to sacrifice on road handling. If you go 1st gen 4runner too, there are some cheap ways to do a Long travel independent suspension too. That is the route I'm probably going to go with my "spare parts" rig.

Lots of tradeoffs in this world....just gotta figure out which ones are important to you.

[dieseldoc]

Hell shannon camboll has won K.O.H. a few time with a IFS buggy.....

The front FJ80 axle may use the 8"ring an pinion but the mini truck bells could dam near fit in the FJ bells!
Slee offroad in golden does tons with the FJ series

[Haku]

hahaa....several have won and been in the top ten of the KOH with that setup....but we are talking 18-20" of travel and $25k just for the front suspension. You can do an "everyman" version of it and get 12" pretty easily though. The ring and pinion and axle shafts are pretty weak in anything over 33" tires with the Toyota IFS though.

I'm rocking an upgraded FJ80 axle in my crawler. Longfield axles, Hellfire Knuckles, Full Hydro steering, etc. Its a great setup and its working great so far, but its not a 1 ton axle. The bigger stronger shafts just move the stress to a different place, which in this case is the ring and pinion. I decided to go this route and sometimes wish I built a Dana 60 instead, but the trade off is a smaller lighter axle that has awesome steering angle but you just can't hammer down on it. I agree that its a great donor axle for a swap into one of the newer Toyota's, and they aren't impossible to find now either. Yota Jim's usually has at least one in the yard and there is a crazy russian guy that has a pile of FJ80's too, which is where I got mine from. Surprisingly, its actually lighter weight then the Mini-truck one but is better designed not warp and twist IMHO.

In an ideal world I would get a Diamond Axle with FJ80 bells and a Toyota 9.5" ring and pinion for the "Ultimate Toyota Axle". You could go even crazier and try to find a 10" Ring and Pinion out of a 2nd Gen Tundra too, since they are starting to get aftermarket support now too.

[dieseldoc]

The amount of options are huge for sure.