Tow rigs Pros and Cons

[MultiScuf]

Alright guys. I chat with people but I looking for wider bass answer.

So I looking for a new DD/Tow rig.

The Must:
Short box would be nice but I know long box are good at towing.
4drs
Good gas mileage - I know hard to come by but I don't wanna get 8miles to gallon while pulling
Must but able to tow a two car hauler when need but will most likely be 1 Jeeps.
I plan to have an 16ft Trailer with 2ft Dovetail behind it.
Most be comfy ride for 4 people to and from the trail or long trips.

Concerns/Don't want's:
Diesel or Gas - I hear Diesel is waste of you not hauling either weekly or driving more than 10+ miles in it a day and that they love to pull weight all day.
- With gas am worried am not going to be able to due the weight I wanna tow and keep up with my buddies up a hill climb.
Its not looking to race or anything but I do wanna be able to pass slow cars with full weight back with out any issues.
I don't wanna be paying 1k-15k to repair something that could have been prevent. I want just do regular work on it and thats

Truck's I am considering:
Dodge Ram 2500 either and later 5.9 motors or and early 6.7 motor
Any 5.7 Tundra
Chevy 6.0 Gasser
7.3 Fords

Transmission: Auto

Any thoughts would be great. I will problay have ton's question as things.

[newracer]

The newer Fords gassers with the eco-boost will fulfill most of your requirements.

Mileage is the tough one.

[Spieg]

Probably not going to find anything that fits everything on the wish list. A friend has one of the new aluminum Fords and it's pretty nice (shaving 700 lbs off really makes it handle nice and improves MPG a lot).

FWIW, my Jeep IS my tow rig... not great mileage but better than any truck pulling a trailer rig.

[dieseldoc]

You want a 2nd gen or early 3rd gen dodge.
No 6.7l as the cost to maintain and fuel economy dropped with the emissions crap.
The 05-06 is your best bet to have 4 door that are real world sized for an adult.
The 2nd gen is not bad for an adult in the back seat but the doors are tight.

The Tundra 5.7l is not efficient with heavy loads, and a 2 car hauler is over its GVWR.
Not a bad truck for your 18ft dove tail bumper pull trailer.

The Chevy 6.0l is strong and the trans is a good one. Fuel economy will be single digits.
My work truck with the Welder and compressor was getting 8.5 mpg.

The Ford 7.3l is a good option as well. They have there issues.....
Cold starts are tough for sure.

As Diesel like to work hard they will handle DD duty, as for maintance cost it comes down to your due diligence to keep up on the trucks needs.

[dieseldoc]

Here Brandon,
Read this.
I think you have a option that will fit your needs to the T!
T for Titian the new 5.0l cummins. ISV5 holly crap look out, half ton market is going to blow up.
T for Tundra as well. Toyota has recently signed contracts as well for the cummins ISV5.

http://www.dieselarmy.com/features/history/a-look-at-what-the-5-0-liter-cummins-is-made-of/

[Patrolman]

My dad drives a 99 Dodge Cummins 2500 (5.9L 24v engine). It has been a great truck. He bought it used about 5 years ago and had to do some maintenance to it. It is a 5 speed manual transmission - he had an automatic first and sold it when he found this truck.

He basically only drives it when towing a 32' long Airstream trailer. The truck unloaded gets just better than 20mpg. When towing he averages about 14mpg, but an Airstream will be much more aerodynamic than towing a car trailer. He does drive it pretty conservatively. Also he does not drive it every day. My parents have a car to use when they aren't traveling with the trailer, and my dad has a 1985 4Runner that he uses for 4wheeling (driven to and from trails). That very much limits the Dodge to the highway road trips with the trailer. Keeps the miles off the Dodge (reduces maintenance) and keeps the fuel bill lower.


As an alternative, I saw a review in a mag last night about the new Chevy Colorado. It will be offered with a 4 cylinder diesel. Will likely get close to 30mpg empty, and still tows 7,500lbs. No way you are going to tow a larger trailer, but it could fit the rest of your requirements.

[dieseldoc]

2.8l VM matori so Chevy is buying a fiat engine.....lol

[BLOODBANE]

I have a 2001 3/4 on Dodge with the 24v Cummins and a 6spd. We average around 22/23mpg. The Cummins is a pulling fool. I also have a 2000 F-350 Sd with the V-10. It only gets around 12mpg. The Cummins will out pull it all day long, but the FOrd is a more comfortable ride (The Dodge has the short box and is a extended cab). Problem is they didnt have the 6spd in the 2001's (our guess is it was built late in the year and custom ordered)

Yes diesel is more expensive to maintain (the Cummins starter lists for around 600), but if you do your maintenance regularly, they will last forever. We do the oil changes religiously (we got the lifetime oil changes when we bought it, only pay 3 bucks for a change at Dodge)
Pic of the Dodge....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/BLOODBANE81230/11044569_10205069620933639_8241121928496342251_n_z pslznoviqh.jpg
Other side of the Challenger)...
My 1 ton....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/BLOODBANE81230/DSC00149.jpg
I dont know if there is a "oerfect" tow rig out there (mine would be to have the Cummins in the 1 ton). Mine work for what I use them for though (they are ranch trucks).

[scout man]

Ill sell you a 2001 7.3L with manual transmission and a freaking ton of work done to it for $10,000. Gooseneck ball already installed and ready to go. Could even do a package deal with a 20' gooseneck trailer with winch for an extra price.

[MultiScuf]

Here Brandon,
Read this.
I think you have a option that will fit your needs to the T!
T for Titian the new 5.0l cummins. ISV5 holly crap look out, half ton market is going to blow up.
T for Tundra as well. Toyota has recently signed contracts as well for the cummins ISV5.

http://www.dieselarmy.com/features/history/a-look-at-what-the-5-0-liter-cummins-is-made-of/

I am not looking at anything new.

[redneck23ms]

i've been happy with my 2000 f250 7.3 auto so far. tows my jeep on a 18 foot trailer fine. gets ok mileage and rides ok for being leaf springs all around. but truth be told a half ton truck would probably suit my needs better as i don't tow very often but hopefully this year i will get out more.

[redneck23ms]

scoutman can hyou shoot me some specs on your truck. a guy at work is looking for a dually to haul his mega truck camper.

[scout man]

its not a dually. SRW f250

[Chris]

If you guys don't like Steve's I have a Civic for sale! :D

[dscowell]

At work we had some 2015 2500 Silverados that were gassers. I have never been in a truck that road and handled as well as those trucks. Personal opinion they are ugly and aesthetically do not appeal to me but that's my only complaint. We towed daily while it was only mowers not a offroad rig it could with out a doubt handle it. Hell when we had the trailer (don't remember length but it was just as long as the crew cab long box truck) and everything loaded on it we could probably go faster then most people on the street. I know in a drag race it'd kick my trucks butt. MPGs while towing was around 10-12 so not a whole lot better then what you want but it did have a something like 40-45 gal tank.

[AccordRanger]

My vote is the 7.3 never had a problem towing anything once I installed the 6.0 tranny cooler on it. I've had up to 12 behind it and it didn't have to work too hard.

[gm4x4lover]

How much are you looking to spend? One of my customers was talking about selling his 2003 Ford F250 xlt, 7.3 diesel, 4x4, crew cab, short bed truck with 75,000 miles for 18k.

[Brian]

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31353&d=1365130674

Been using this set up for about six years and it's been great. 2000 F-350, 7.3L, auto with a 4" turbo back exhaust, prodigy brake controller. Trailer is 18 foot dovetail. A little more trailer than I needed but I got a good deal on it.

[MultiScuf]

Ideals Budget would be 14k-16k I not looking for anything price but I really want a 4dr(Actual doors)
Would like to have an Auto(Just cause I dont know how I would feel towing with a manual and wrecking the trans.


2000 Ford F350 7.3L Diesel 4x4 6spd manual. 280k miles.
Runs great, passed emissions (however it failed due to check engine light came on for a wheel sensor which will be fixed)
Previous owner said it was taken in regularly for oil changes and clutch was replaced about 8k ago. But have no paperwork.
Starts in cold without being plugged in.
Has rough interior and exterior (mainly the bed)
Nada.com (http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2FNada.com%2F&h=ZAQEq29PJ&enc=AZOTYLlWV_4Q0W7BLAUZWTpdw3E3vSN-i9dGCyW5iwxWc7xQBAs_g2JBpFlQKO0nNDixJDkcZhoxsSWuhu Ss4lyi1fiM12jb3yv2Wpworc301WIq7Mdf7SpkIvWUYr76TGdy RfD4p6c8BT2-YkYyq9mmTYOGpCaFXYOX2p3e3kEJMQ&s=1) puts the truck at 10k in great shape. Asking $5000.
No payments. Need gone asap.

[MultiScuf]

How much are you looking to spend? One of my customers was talking about selling his 2003 Ford F250 xlt, 7.3 diesel, 4x4, crew cab, short bed truck with 75,000 miles for 18k.
Pictures help too.

[Jim]

A little more trailer than I needed but I got a good deal on it.

Two sweet bits that don't often meet up :thumb:

[MultiScuf]

Two sweet bits that don't often meet up :thumb:
I looking at that excat trailer to be pulling.

[MultiScuf]

Other set of options I am looking at of 2500

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5429358535.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/5410540721.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5417784468.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/fod/5432282442.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/5402561315.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5403338369.html

[Fordguy77]

Ill sell you a 2001 7.3L with manual transmission and a freaking ton of work done to it for $10,000. Gooseneck ball already installed and ready to go. Could even do a package deal with a 20' gooseneck trailer with winch for an extra price.
Wish I had the cash! haha good luck with it steve

[MultiScuf]

Top 3 picks so far out the list about. I leaning towards the 2008 Dodge Ram 2500 Bighorn Quad Cab. I know its a gasser but I not hooking 10k every week or weekend so what everyone's thoughts on that?

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5403338369.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/5402561315.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/5410540721.html

[redneck23ms]

Out of those 3 the cummins would be my pick. But in reality any of those trucks would work for you. The gasses will get worse mileage especially when towing but the cost to maintain them will be lower

[Patrolman]

Agreed. Of the 3, I would swing for the Cummins, particularly when it is close to the same price of the V8.

[newracer]

The Cummins is RWD if that matters.

[redneck23ms]

I didn't catch that. 4wd is a must for me where I live but alot of people could get by with a 2wd.

[dieseldoc]

2wd sucks. Good price but no 4x will suck.

[Patrolman]

The 2wd should get better mpg though and have less to go wrong. Unless 4wd is a necessity, a 2wd could make a great tow rig.

[newracer]

I rarely use 4WD while towing but I have on occasion going over passes in the snow.

[dieseldoc]

the front axle and T-case is 1000lbs less curb weight.
The only time 4x will be good is winter driving and soft dirt at a trail head.
Was very rare I used 4x in my '91 w250 cummins.
Empty was when I needed the 4x

The price is nice for sure.

[mattzj98]

I had a 2000 7.3 litre. could never get it out of a shop. Just constant issues.. tried few other trucks.. meh.

Finally found a pristine 2008 6.7 L Cummins. long bed, 4 door but not megAF.
Little tweak turned into major mods but in the end, I am pushing 800 hp and 1400tq, get 26mpg emty and 16 to 18 mpg pulling my 35ft gooseneck with 2 Jeeps on it (6k lbs jeeps) I absolutely refuse to trade this truck for anything.

As far as 4x4 goes. Yes. You will be using 4x4 a lot when towing to trail heads. Pulling my set up to Eagle Rock, I had to put it in 4 low because the weight of my trailer kept pulling me back down the hill. If you try to accelerate up hill on drt rd with rwd only, you will end up spinning a lot of tire, get your transmission hot and end up not going anywhere. Bill Moore is another trail i will throw the truck in 4low to get up to trailhead... there is lots of that. The only time I'd say you wouldnt need it would be if you did hotshot hauling, mostly interstate. Ive yet to put it in 4x4 on any regular paved roads.

If you get a cummins, you will definitely be happy for life, although it is true, ford is the more comfortable truck overall.. I know, ive spent a lot of time on the side of the road and was very happy about the comfort features.. with the cummins, i just get where I need to get real quick and worry free :)

[redneck23ms]

what sort of issues did you have with the 7.3? i have the same year truck is why i am asking. only had it for a year now but only issue so far was a glow plug relay and one of the plugs came off of the t-case so it wouldnt shift into 4wd. both were easy fixes. granted my truck is stock and i plan on keeping it that way.

[mattzj98]

I wish you luck. I got to know every tow truck driver on this side of the Rockies. I kept blowing transmission lines, losing heat, leaking Freon, tons of electrical issues, glow plug relays, glow plugs, block heater, injectors, two times over. Transmission, turbos, fuel pumps, alternator, starter, trailer harness, fuel gauge, it kept stalling every time wipers kicked on, hubs... and I've only owned it for 7 months... lol.. oh and boost leaks. New one every couple weeks. And interior filled with steam when pulling (still unexplained) my jeep usually end up taking the truck home..

[Brian]

I think it has a lot to do with the previous owner and how they treated and maintained the truck before you. I have had my 2000 7.3L since 2007 as the second owner. Other than the alternator going out last year and the batteries 3 years ago, all I have done is changed the oil and fuel filter regularly and fill up with diesel as needed. I have had zero mechanical issues, and have never been left stranded. A lot of guys get wrapped up in the "fanboy noise" of their brand and use it to validate their choice of truck/rig/4x4 etc. Most my experience with guys who tow/haul regularly shows that their are several good options across all brands, and all brands have some sort of shortcoming. It's all a compromise of some sort, just gotta do your homework and go with what suits your needs.

[mattzj98]

Yup. Ford has the roomiest interior
Chevy has the nicest ride
Ram pulls like a freight train.

[Jim]

Ford has the roomiest interior
Chevy has the nicest ride
Ram pulls like a freight train.

That summary works for me!

[dieseldoc]

So the best truck would be the Ford cab an frames with a cummins engine and an allisson 2000 transmission.
The rest of the Chevy can be tossed as the strength is not there.
GM origanly tried to get the CAT C7 a 6.6l inline 6, CAT refused to contract after trashing a few prototypes. Bent the frame killed the front axles and the trans hardly fit.
Thus why they want with an Isuzu engine. Yet still the wrong engine as there is a 6.6l inline in the same family as the v8. The 6 is to tall to fit in the truck with the IFS.
GM is currently shopping for a new engine as the contract with Isuzu is up.
Rumors are they are jumping on the 5.0l cummins.
If you read the fine print on the GM comercials, they clam best towing in its class,
when you put a 6.6l diesel against 6.2l gas engines you will out pull them.

The current FORD engine seems to be far more reliable than the Navastar/IH engines.
The new engine is up to near 900 lbft and over 550hp.
They are trying to beat the cummins to the 1000 lbft....will see.

The 6.7l cummins is a great engine.
Built for the dodge, cummins don't like to sell the parts for it, they will tell you that's a dodge part.
There in lies the issue as the parts are far more expensive at the dodge dealer.
We have a clear of '07 and '14 dodges.
They seem to be well running and living with our guys abuse.
Now mind you these are chassis cabs with flat beds, the rutinly pull 20k lbs. on goose necks.
The biggest issues thus far is with the pinion bearings in the '07's.
As AAM eliminated the pinion snout support from the inside they work loose.
The steering box on 2 of the 5 of our '07 trucks have failed the anual DOT inspection due to
the sector shafts having to much movement.
These are the biggest issues with the dodges.
Big plus is the factory exhaust brake!


Matt- do us all a nice cool favor and build a thread on your truck.
I would like to see how the truck deals with 800 up for the long term.
Granted Cummins turns these engines down alot.
The biggest thing I want to see is how often the DPF has to be cleaned.
And that bring up a whole different part of the truck discution.
As Cummins builds 90% of the after treatment systems for all didesl engines,
I find it funny that the other guys are buying cummins parts to run in there junk.
This is also a very sore subject for many of us mechanics.
As a diesel engine produces NOx nitorgine oxides why is there a catilitic converter on the new trucks.....the carp is along for the ride.
The you have the DPF selectable catilist for the soot. Realy we have to capture the carbon and clean it. Realy it carbon.
So what we have now is the use of Diesel Exhoust Fluid, 20% bovine pee, 25% a minneral that you really don't want near you, this carp is killing the plant life along the freeways.
So the best pro for a diesel purchase has been negated by the EPA.
Fuel economy.....
Matt could imagine the MPG's you would be getting with out the DPF using 7-15% of the tank to burn carbon.

[mattzj98]

It's a simple build. 150 over injectors, full deletes, upgraded cooling, stage 3 heavy tow performance 68, better turbo, head studs, Fass fuel system custom H&S tune for engine+ trans, banks intercooler, a pretty intake horn, H&S cai, and few other goods I won't come up with while wrenching on the jeep currently. It's held up great, the torque converter is amazing, truck goes up Eisenhower in 6th gear, cruising at 75+

[MultiScuf]

It's a simple build. 150 over injectors, full deletes, upgraded cooling, stage 3 heavy tow performance 68, better turbo, head studs, Fass fuel system custom H&S tune for engine+ trans, banks intercooler, a pretty intake horn, H&S cai, and few other goods I won't come up with while wrenching on the jeep currently. It's held up great, the torque converter is amazing, truck goes up Eisenhower in 6th gear, cruising at 75+

So there are a few 6.7 auto I have taken look my biggest thing is I know nothing about diesels Cummins other than they hook like boss I am sure. I think with the right mods and driving more than 10+ miles day I should be good

[dieseldoc]

So Matt you have done full delete
As in no more EGR and no more after treatment? So no DPF?

Brandon-multi, the cummins with auto trans have more power!
The newer transmissions are getting really well built.
Converters are far stronger and lock up at much lower RPM.
The heat is an issue, trans coolers should never be run through the radiator.
Trans temp should stay lower than 195-210.
The hotter they get the sooner the blow up.
Thus why ours have larger external coolers.

I wonder if the fatories will ever figure that out.

[Java]

If you can swing the $$ the new Chevy Colorado looks awesome and has a 4 cyl Duramax that can tow 7600 lbs and gets great mpg.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a26915/2016-chevrolet-colorado-diesel-first-drive/

[dieseldoc]

Not a cummins in the GM junk.
Its a VM matori engine. Comes from Italy and owned by Fiat.
They can't get the 3.0l v6 as dodge has contracted it.
Why it's a 2.8l they get the smaller less powerful 4 cylinder.
Yet it is still a great move for GM. As the Isuzu engine of the same displacment is a dog.
That and the contract is up.
If they get the 5.0l v8 cummins it could go into the mix sized truck, but I don't see that happening as the truck really can't deal with 350up and 550 lbft frame is not built for that engine...yet!

[MultiScuf]

If you can swing the $$ the new Chevy Colorado looks awesome and has a 4 cyl Duramax that can tow 7600 lbs and gets great mpg.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a26915/2016-chevrolet-colorado-diesel-first-drive/

If I had to the dough to do something I would get the new Tundra or Frontier. Used is more my style

[mattzj98]

Full deletes, plates intake horns, turbo back, egr gone dpf gone the 19 cats that come from factory gone..

[dieseldoc]

Nice tossed a $15k Exhoust system.
Pea mandated restriction.

[mattzj98]

Who said I tossed it? Lol

[dieseldoc]

Lol....wouldn't put it back on that's for sure.
I so wish the EPA would leave well enough allows.

So example of the usless bull they are shoving down our engines

1980 Honda civic 1800c.f. that thing got 46mpg,
The new ones are still not cracking the upper 30's

My own experience
1991 dodge w250 cummins, this thing was 165up at the crank!
Built it with pump mods, fuel pin, rotated 180degrees
Injectors were 50 over
2nd gen impeller side (exhoust) housing this spoiled 42psi out of a 18psi factory turbo
So it was making 350up at the tires and getting 28 mpg.
Colorado made me turn it down to 170hp this then only getting 18mpg.
I had years of fuel economy and Dyno numbers.
This state is more concerned about choking the engine down then slowing it,to be efficient.
They didn't care one bit about the evidence to support the fact they made it less effective at doing its job.

What it comes down to is the Fed is forcing us to buy more fuel instead of getting all the power and efficiency out of our cars and trucks.
Hell the LSD they are making us use has less BTU in it to start with, then saddle the engine with a ton of restrictive exhaust parts that dodnt do ****.... Catalitic converter will do not a thing with diesel emmissins. Just along for the ride, thanks California
What it comes down to is an engine is nothing more than a air compressor
The harder to get air in and out the less efficient the engine is.

And now the EPA wants to make any aftermarket parts and running illegal
Wow talk about screw the industry.
My job will get harder and all of us will have to trailer our stuff to C.O.R.E as we won't be legal to run on public lands!

Dam it....3 government entities need to away....
EPA
OSHA
IRS

[Jim]

Don't forget the Bureau of All Things Fun and Exciting

[mattzj98]

Here's the funny part. With full factory exhaust I needed to use twice the throttle when pulling, while getting 8 mpg towing and 13 empty... passed emissions with a 4% opacity... did full deletes, added more powerr.. still passed opacity, and at 3%... so how the hell do they justify any of it

[dieseldoc]

ahh...my point exactly.

And here comes some new carp.
EPA is making any after market changes illegal.
With a $37,500 flat fine. WTF
So the Fed is trying to kill a multi million dollar industry.
More fleecing of America and more lean to the comunist/socialist agenda.

[husky390]

I had an 06 F250 6.0, loved the power and I was very lucky to only have one issue with that engine for the first 93k, then I sold it. Due to maintenance costs, I didn't think I would be in the market for another diesel again and would stick with a Ford V10 when it was time to get another 3/4 or 1 ton truck. But, here in CO, the elevation is a huge power drag. When I drive my gasser Expedition to Kansas, that thing is awesome and puts a smile on my face. When I come back to Denver, I notice the power loss and it's big. So, my next truck will be a diesel, just because of the elevation factor. Also, keep in mind that most owners manuals deduct towing capacity the higher up you are and most tow ratings are based at sea level.

And I'd recommend staying away from Ford diesels from 2003 up until this current generation. I believe it's the 6.0 and 6.4. Unless you like to work on them and spend lots of money.

[96EXXLTinCO]

'96 3/4 ton Dodge 12-valve Cummins 5-speed. One of my top 3 trucks ever owned. 21 mpg no matter what I did with it. And that was back before every other house on the block had one and shot diesel prices through the roof. Diesel was cheaper than gas back then, but holy smokes did I love that thing. 2nd best tow rig I had was a 91 F-250 SC long bed, 4x4, auto 460. 28ft fifth wheel and 18ft jet boat behind that, no problem. Luckily I got rid of that one while gas was still cheap. Other than higher maintenance and fuel costs, I'd go diesel again all day.

[dieseldoc]

So the EGR crap we are forcing down the intake of the newer diesel engine is crap.
Spent gasses and suit are doing no good for the engines.

Water methonal is the way to go here.
A) it cools the cylinder temps, thus the get will never open
B) nice gains all around, better mpg, some hp, and it cleans the cylinders!

So what the he'll are we doing this DEF crap for.....oh ya the EPA has special interest groups who give big money for them to mandate there junk....so make money for them but not really do any good for the engine it's self.

Again I find myself calling B.S.