Truck won't start

[dscowell]

Was able to start my truck the other day and it died at the gas station filling up. It'll crank but won't turn over. I replaced the CPS today and it didn't help checked the spark plugs and they looked good. I'm not sure what else to do. I'm assuming it's not a fuel issue since it was running fine and I can hear the rail prime when I turn the key to the accessory but I could be wrong. Any ideas?

[moose]

You can hear the rail prime. Can you confirm there is fuel pressure?

[94ToyBear]

Check for spark at the end of the plug wires, if no spark, check at the coil
, then for Fule/pressure.

[dscowell]

I have not checked the fuel pressure. Checked for a spark got nothing. Replaced the ignintion coil then the cap. Would have replaced the rotor but was given the wrong one so I'll do that tomorrow.

[Patrolman]

My trick is to spray some starting fluid into the intake. If it fires over, it is fuel. If it doesn't, it is likely spark. I keep a spray bottle of starting fluid just for that cause.

[Jim]

Check the output from the coil (rotor not needed, unless I don't envision your setup correctly).

Hold it, coil output wire, 1/8 to 1/4" from block ground and have an assistant try to start the motor. Spark or no? If no, then it's further up the line in the electrics/electronics from coil output (coil or what is driving the coil). If there is spark - that's good, then perhaps rotor or dist cap.

It sounds like you have two coils - orig and new. If no spark from output of either, then it's what's driving the coil. Anything else in your circuit than the CPS? Any blown fuses (a fuse driving the computer??).

[94ToyBear]

What. Jim said !

[Hypoid]

Was able to start my truck the other day and it died at the gas station filling up.Typically, a sudden change is electrical in nature. Is it possible you got a slug of bad gas? The ether test that Jeff mentioned is a good way to find out.

[dscowell]

Doubt bad gas cause I was down to 2 gallons went to the gas station filled up and it did nothing. It was having some trouble before with long stats and what not. We did check the relays and they all seemed fine. I'll take a look at the fuses.

[xaza]

You got to know if you are missing the spark or fuel. While I have used a screwdriver and metal for testing all my life, the cost of tester from Harbor Freight makes it a good tool to have in the garage.
http://www.harborfreight.com/inline-ignition-spark-checker-69014.html

[Hypoid]

Doubt bad gas cause I was down to 2 gallons went to the gas station filled up and it did nothing. It was having some trouble before with long stats and what not.I meant bad gas from the station when you filled the tank. Was a tanker there when you filled up?

I am leaning toward the fuel pump on this one. The way to prove me wrong is to get a fuel pressure gauge and collect hard data.

[dscowell]

Did the screw driver and got no spark. Used the multimeter on some plug wires and got nothing. Tried it on the coil and did get a reading I don't remember what it was but we at at least got something out of it. Replaced both the cap and rotor and it didn't do anything either. Also checked some grounds and there was no corrosion and they didn't look dirty. I can checked the fuel pressure but if we are getting no spark I don't think the fuel pressure will make a difference. Starter should not be bad either since I had that replaced last year. Today it was cranking and the starter did sound like it was trying to fire up but didn't.

[Jim]

If you're not getting spark, ignore all other items (starter, fuel) until you get spark. Holding the coil's high tension / spark plug wire to test for a spark jumping from it to block ground is all the test you need.

No blown fuses?

What year vehicle is this? What's the layout (what parts are in the mix - you mentioned CPS sensor) of the ignition system?

[dscowell]

Looked at all the fuses they are all good. Tested the relays they are good too. It's a 90. Not sure what else is involved in the ignintion system. Ill look into it and see.

[Hypoid]

I have a book I can "loan" to you. Check your PMs.

[Brian]

Double check that your distributor housing is tightened down. If it's loose it can rotate over time and put you either full retard or full advance causing extreme timing issues leading to a no start. Could be so off that the rotor is not touching the contact in the cap, thus no spark out the plugs. Just try twisting it by hand to check it.

[redneck23ms]

check out this thread. it should get you headed in the right direction http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/1990-cherokee-no-spark-839999/

[96EXXLTinCO]

My trick is to spray some starting fluid into the intake. If it fires over, it is fuel. If it doesn't, it is likely spark. I keep a spray bottle of starting fluid just for that cause.
I like having a can around for bees and wasps. Kills em dead quicker than anything I've ever seen.........well besides fire, but this is a little safer.

[Patrolman]

I utilize the can for the same thing, with the help of a lighter. :)

[ColoJeeper]

Don't assume that the CPS is good just because it is new. When mine went out in my Jeep, the one I put in was bad too, and took a second new one to get it running again.

[dscowell]

Don't assume that the CPS is good just because it is new.

That is frustrating. Thank you for that information.

I got one more idea and then I'm throwing in the towel and bring it to the dealership for them to take a look at it.

[Adaa60]

Where do you live buddy? would you like me to come out and give you a hand with this?

[dscowell]

I would like a hand but I'm in Montana for school right now. We got some really low readings right out of the coil but not out of the wire. There is also some wires coming in the ICU and we didn't get any readings out of those wires. Not sure what they go to but they had no power.

[dscowell]

Would the ECU or alternator be worth a shot?

[dieseldoc]

Ecu could But,for often an issue.
I am more concerned about the low reading from the coil.
Do you get a nice bright blue from the coil lead wire?
If not you will never get it passed the dizzy.....(distributor)
Do you get 12v at the control module?
Do you get 12v at the dizzy's conections.
If not you would be looking at the ECU, or the wire look between them.
If you have good power at them thing and good high voltage from you coil you have an issue in the dizzy.
Cap an rotor must fit tight and stay that way.
Does the inside of the dizzy smell really cooked, look at the board inside there is a large amount of little things that can and will fail in there.

[ColoJeeper]

I would still strongly suggest trying another CPS. I know you put in a new one, but I've been there, done that, and know that just because the CPS was new, doesn't make it good. I think you can test the CPS with a multi meter, but I don't know the process.

[dscowell]

I'm aware. I'll check the ECU first then see about another cps. I have tested the CPS and go no readings from it. I believe it should be 0.5 volts to 1.5 volts on AC or 175 ohms. Got neither of those readings with the old or new.

[dieseldoc]

No power to it.

[xaza]

Automotive is DC not AC.

[dscowell]

Everything I've seen says test it AC. When I tried DC I got something like 0.01 volts

[dieseldoc]

you still are not getting voltage.
12v DC is required to run this thing.
The relay that open the circuit to the CPS could have failed.

[Brian]

I snipped this out of a Cherokee forum, wondered if it might help
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to test your CPS for voltage, here's how to do it. The resistance test sometimes recommended is not always accurate.

Renix CPS Testing and Adjusting
　
　
Renix CPSs have to put out a strong enough signal to the ECU so that it will provide spark.
Most tests for the CPS suggest checking it for an ohms value. This is unreliable and can cause some wasted time and aggravation in your diagnosis of a no-start issue as the CPS will test good when in fact it is bad.
The problem with the ohms test is you can have the correct amount of resistance through the CPS but it isn’t generating enough voltage to trigger the ECU to provide spark.
Unplug the harness connector from the CPS. Using your voltmeter set on AC volts and probing both wires in the connector going to the CPS, crank the engine over. It won’t start with the CPS disconnected.
You should get a reading of .5 AC volts.
If you are down in the 3.5 AC volts range or lower on your meter reading, you can have intermittent crank/no-start conditions from your Renix Jeep. Some NEW CPSs (from the big box parts stores) have registered only .2 AC volts while reading the proper resistance!! That’s a definite no-start condition. Best to buy your CPS from Napa or the dealer.
Sometimes on a manual transmission equipped Renix Jeep there is an accumulation of debris on the tip of the CPS. It’s worn off clutch material and since the CPS is a magnet, the metal sticks to the tip of the CPS causing a reduced voltage signal. You MAY get by with cleaning the tip of the CPS off.

[Hypoid]

I'm aware. I'll check the ECU first then see about another cps. I have tested the CPS and go no readings from it. I believe it should be 0.5 volts to 1.5 volts on AC or 175 ohms. Got neither of those readings with the old or new.
Yup, you got a bad one out of the box. The RENIX manual says resistance should be 200 Ohms, +/- 75 Ohms. I'll see about "loaning" you a copy of that text.

Funny thing, I did some trading with a guy who has a commercial account at AutoStoned. He ordered the high altitude CPS for me, it came in a bag that said Wells. Take the thing out of the bag and it has the big RENIX "R" molded in. The French are still at it. :D


Renix CPS Testing and Adjusting
　
　
Renix CPSs have to put out a strong enough signal to the ECU so that it will provide spark.
Most tests for the CPS suggest checking it for an ohms value. This is unreliable and can cause some wasted time and aggravation in your diagnosis of a no-start issue as the CPS will test good when in fact it is bad.
The problem with the ohms test is you can have the correct amount of resistance through the CPS but it isn’t generating enough voltage to trigger the ECU to provide spark.
Unplug the harness connector from the CPS. Using your voltmeter set on AC volts and probing both wires in the connector going to the CPS, crank the engine over. It won’t start with the CPS disconnected.
You should get a reading of .5 AC volts.
If you are down in the 3.5 AC volts range or lower on your meter reading, you can have intermittent crank/no-start conditions from your Renix Jeep. Some NEW CPSs (from the big box parts stores) have registered only .2 AC volts while reading the proper resistance!! That’s a definite no-start condition. Best to buy your CPS from Napa or the dealer.
Sometimes on a manual transmission equipped Renix Jeep there is an accumulation of debris on the tip of the CPS. It’s worn off clutch material and since the CPS is a magnet, the metal sticks to the tip of the CPS causing a reduced voltage signal. You MAY get by with cleaning the tip of the CPS off.

Maybe 5 volts AC, but I agree about testing for induced voltage. :thumb:

[xaza]

My apologies, has been some time since I had to replace my CPS. Looked in my Chilton's and it doesn't even have the voltage test, just resistance. Found a pretty nice write up on testing the Renix sensors, thought it might make a good bookmark. CPS is at the bottom.
http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Engine/Basic_Sensors_Diagnostics.htm

[dscowell]

So I got a new cps like suggested. Tested all three of them for the resistance. The old one had readings all over the place and the first one I got was all over the place. The last one was a consistent 193 ohms. Brought it to the dealership today and they called and said I just had a dead battery. When testing everything we had a charger on my battery or another vehicle hooked up so I am assuming we didn't allow it to charge enough? I guess I am just going to buy a new battery once I get my truck. I am assuming the CPS was the original problem and from constantly cranking it caused it to not start either.

[dieseldoc]

Always check battery 1st, when anytime you have electrical issues the battery needs to be fully charged when doing your work.

[xaza]

You can get the battery charged all the way up and have it tested at the parts store while in the vehicle before replacing it. It is likely discharged from all the cranking and not bad. Sounds like the CPS was your issue, best luck.

[dscowell]

Your right it would be best to test it first. I'll do that before I head back home. The battery holder has a ton of corrosion on it so it may be getting close to need to being replaced anyways.

Last thank you guys very much for helping me out and being patient with me trying to get this figured.

[EKXJ87]

No consolation, but if jeeping was easy everyone would be doing it. I've had plenty of "hard to learn diagnostic lessens" while owning a jeep. Glad to hear you got it fixed !

[ColoJeeper]

Glad you got it going...

[dscowell]

Alright drove it back from the dealership next day truck didn't start. Not even crank or anything. Got new a battery and my voltmeter in my truck reads just above 9 volts... which is wrong since it's a new battery. I'm assuming its the ECU but not sure what else. Cleaned the terminals and the cable look to be in decent shape. When I turn it to accessory the truck beeps at me for not having a seat belt on and the stereo will light up so I am getting connection.

[dieseldoc]

The cables could be corroded.
If they are origanal they will have to much resistance in them for the heat and corosion.
If this truck has been anyplace that magclo is used that carp eats copper.
I would replace the leads for sure. Then check all the ground straps.
It sounds like this is your issues, check the fuseable links as well. If is has any kind of failure, or is the original it could be just nearly hanging on.
You for sure have a power supply issue.

[Chris]

When I turn it to accessory the truck beeps at me for not having a seat belt on and the stereo will light up so I am getting connection.

Brandon's on the mark, powering a beeper and light doesn't take much at all. Certainly nowhere near cranking power. At this point I'd replace the cables making sure the ground is good when redoing them.

[Hypoid]

What is the voltage at the battery post?

[dieseldoc]

New battery he should have 12.4-12.6volts.

[dscowell]

AC or DC? I've cleaned the ground and the negative is a year or two old.

[Jim]

Vehicle off a good, charged battery will be about 12.6 volts, DC.

Turning the vehicle on, the charging system should activate and bring the voltage up to 13.8/14.1 vDC. If it stays at or lower than your vehicle off voltage, a charging system issue may be present.

[dieseldoc]

Jim is on point there.

[Hypoid]

Vehicle off a good, charged battery will be about 12.6 volts, DC....@ the battery posts. While you are there, have someone crank the starter. The voltage at the battery should not fall below 10V DC.

Point is, don't trust a dash gauge or a new part.

[dscowell]

My battery is at 12.53 volts. Did the voltage drop on the connectors and got 0.00 difference. Should I just go about replacing the cables since they aren't very expensive or is there something else I should try first. I'll look at the starter some later more but my truck is outside and there is a ton of water under it and I'm being a wuss for right now.

[Chris]

Sounds like the cables are good. Starter could very well be bad but I don't have a clue how to check! :redface:

[dscowell]

I've read some stuff online but most of it involves taking the start out. Last year when my starter went out I was able to pull start my truck. I'm was hoping it wouldn't come down to the starter since it's a little over a year old but that may be the case.

[dieseldoc]

If you can get hold,of a good multi letter with a high amp clamp to test if the starter pulls more than 400 amp it's most likely toasted.
Bench test tells you only the bended is working right.
Load testing is the right way to go.
Most auto parts places can bench test, Napa can load test.

But as I mentioned anything over 400 amp is on the high side.
500 plus it's waisted.

[Patrolman]

It is completely possible there is another issue, but terminals are common problems. When you turn the key do you at least get a "click"? If you get the click, then you know the solenoid is working. If not, then it is completely possible the solenoid is bad, ignition (key) is bad, or even the battery terminals. One thing to try is to put a jumper wire on the solenoid and see if the starter turns. Here is a link, see post #13 for how to use a jumper wire on the starter:

http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/starter-solenoid-issues-29806/

[Rick]

Alright drove it back from the dealership next day truck didn't start. Not even crank or anything. Got new a battery and my voltmeter in my truck reads just above 9 volts... which is wrong since it's a new battery. I'm assuming its the ECU but not sure what else. Cleaned the terminals and the cable look to be in decent shape. When I turn it to accessory the truck beeps at me for not having a seat belt on and the stereo will light up so I am getting connection.
I'm thinking a grounding issue....I have a 96 neon that would just randomly quit....whenever I would pull a plug wire then replace it,it would start.... Ended up being a bad ground from the coil to where it bolted to the valve cover.Fixed that and 7yrs later no issue

[Hypoid]

My battery is at 12.53 volts. Did the voltage drop on the connectors and got 0.00 difference.Check and clean your connections, then look at why the starter is not pulling any current.

I like Jeff's idea of jumping the solenoid terminal: Pull the dark green wire at the relay and touch it to the battery (big) terminal on the relay. The starter should spin, make sure the transmission is in neutral.

It could be the ignition switch going out. Unplug the green wire at the relay and check for voltage while someone turns the key to the start position.

Looking at my wiring diagrams, I don't see a neutral safety switch for a manual transmission(???).

To follow up Rick's thought, clean the grounding stud where the dipstick is bolted to the block.

That's all I got for now.

[dscowell]

When you turn the key do you at least get a "click"? If you get the click, then you know the solenoid is working. If not, then it is completely possible the solenoid is bad, ignition (key) is bad, or even the battery terminals.
Never heard any click.



I'm thinking a grounding issue
Had that problem before. Looked at it again and I cleaned off all my ground so that's not the problem.



neutral safety switch for a manual transmission(???).
I have a manual so no NSS. I looked into that earlier on as well.

I'll try testing the starter and looking into ignition switch as well. I've read that starters a fairly common thing to go out since it's right above the oil filter. Earlier this summer I cross threaded my oil filter on while doing an oil change and ended up spewing all my oil out which I doubt it helped. I'll get around to doing all this stuff when I have some time.

[Patrolman]

Without a click, I would be doing the process to bypass the key and wire directly across the solenoid. Hopefully that does something.

[Brian]

Without a click, I would be doing the process to bypass the key and wire directly across the solenoid. Hopefully that does something.

I would agree. ^^^Do this first.^^^

[dscowell]

I like Jeff's idea of jumping the solenoid terminal: Pull the dark green wire at the relay and touch it to the battery (big) terminal on the relay. The starter should spin, make sure the transmission is in neutral.

It could be the ignition switch going out. Unplug the green wire at the relay and check for voltage while someone turns the key to the start position.

Alright I tried the bypass and it didn't spin or do anything. I tested the green wire at the relay and got 11.8V but it was a real steady 11.8V it would drop then go back up. It should be the same voltage as the battery right? I also tested the volts at the solenoid with the with my multi-meter. Put the positive on the solenoid and negative on the ground and got 12.5V and my battery is at 12.53V.

[Hypoid]

When I started, battery voltage was about 12.6 volts.

Step 1: When I checked voltage in from the key switch, I had 12 volts with the key turned to crank position.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/FRONT%20RANGE/IN%20FROM%20SWITCH.jpg

Step 2: When I checked voltage out to the starter, I had another 12 volts with the key in the crank position.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/FRONT%20RANGE/OUT%20TO%20STARTER.jpg

​Step 3: When I jumped the starter signal wire to the hot terminal, the voltage dropped about 1.4 volts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRgyBq152ww

If your starter does not crank like mine did in the video, you need to pull the starter and inspect the electrical connections, including where the starter bolts to the engine.

[dieseldoc]

The starters are self grounded, this can be an issue now days.
The surfaces have to be clean.
Then all the chassis grounds as well.
The new cars/trucks are so sensitive to the grounds that lose grounds can cause issues with the CPU,

[dscowell]

Alright so I tried the bypass again today with some larger wire since what I had before probably wasn't big enough. That got the starter to spin. When I tried what you did Mike I got nothing. So does that mean the ignition switch is bad? Wires?

[Patrolman]

That would mean to me that you are not getting power from the key, but you would want to check for 12v coming to the solenoid when the key is turned.

[Hypoid]

Alright so I tried the bypass again today with some larger wire since what I had before probably wasn't big enough. That got the starter to spin. When I tried what you did Mike I got nothing. So does that mean the ignition switch is bad? Wires?
I edited the post with the pictures and labeled the steps. Step 1 proves the circuit through the ignition switch, to the starter relay. Step 2 proves the starter relay. Step 3 proves the circuit from the starter relay to the starter drive, on top of the starter motor.

When you say you tried the bypass, I don't understand what circuit you bypassed. Did you jump from the big terminal to the little terminal on the starter itself?

If you did jump out the terminals on the starter to make it work, and step 3 did not make it work, you need to take the little wire off the starter and clean that connection.

[dscowell]

When you say you tried the bypass, I don't understand what circuit you bypassed. Did you jump from the big terminal to the little terminal on the starter itself?

Took the green wire that you were testing in the steps above. Got some separate wire and went from the green wire on the relay to the end of the positive terminal were it bolts to the starter. That got it to crank.

[Hypoid]

OK, measure the voltage at the stud I used in step 3, it should be the same as battery voltage. If it is not battery voltage, take the wires off and measure the voltage of the big cable. If you don't have battery voltage there, replace the cable. If you do have battery voltage there, clean everything that goes on the stud I used for step 3, including the stud.


Got some separate wire and went from the green wire on the relay to the end of the positive terminal were it bolts to the starter. That got it to crank.Same thing should happen if you take the jumper wire to the battery positive post, or the positive stud on the relay.

[dscowell]

I tested the voltage at the stud and got 0 Volts. I replaced the larger wire and cleaned off the stud and all the wires and still got nothing.

[Hypoid]

I replaced the larger wire and cleaned off the stud and all the wires and still got nothing.Ummm, did that wire go to the battery positive terminal?

[dscowell]

Yes it was the wire from the positive terminal going to the ignintion relay? Whatever part it was that has the stud with all the other wires by the battery.

[Hypoid]

Something is wrong with that picture. That stud is the distribution point for most of the electrical system.

Check for voltage at the battery cable itself, sounds like you got a bad one.

[dscowell]

So my actual battery cables or the cable going from the stub to the battery?

[Hypoid]

Stud to battery.

[dscowell]

The cable read the same as my battery

[Hypoid]

That stud should read the same.

[dscowell]

When I put my lead on the end of the stud the largest reading I got was 0.3V. When I put it on the eyelets for all the wires I get the same as my battery.

[Hypoid]

Polish the stud, nut (& washer), and wire terminations with a fine wire brush.

[dscowell]

I have not cleaned the stud and everything since I don't have wire brush yet but say that doesn't work is there anywhere else I should look? Could it even be that the whole part (starter relay?) is bad and just needs to be replaced?

[dieseldoc]

very well could be....

[Hypoid]

It looks expensive, but it is clean: ECH AR578

http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/ECHAR578_0341048681

[Hypoid]

I have not cleaned the stud and everythingIf you have the cables mounted on the stud, you should have voltage on the end of the stud, simple as that. Once you cross that bridge, you can think about how the relay functions.

[dscowell]

Found this one for cheaper. Not sure if it would be as good of quality or not.
http://www.partsgeek.com/9nh68hv-jeep-cherokee-relay.html?utm_source=nextag&utm_medium=pf&utm_content=mc&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Nextag&fp=pp&utm_term=Jeep+Relay

I cleaned it off with some stuff it's not prefect but cleaner then before and got no volts out of it. The only thing is I would think that it is bad considering I've done all of the procedures you have suggested. Is there even a way I could take it apart and look at the inside see if it's burnt out or something?

[Patrolman]

Any chance of getting a used relay? Might save some bucks. Relays don't fail all that often. I am sure a used one at a yard would be $2 or so.

[dieseldoc]

Electrical parts fail, new ones can crap out just as soon as they go in. Yet some factory stuff will go a few hundred thousand miles.....
Honestly it sounds like the relay has crapped so new ones is the right direction.

[dscowell]

Going to a yard is a good idea. Only thing is any yard with a jeep is an hour away but I'll look into it see if there is maybe something close by that I can tear into.

[xaza]

getting a new relay will not do you any good if you are not getting the power from the battery. The relay can close but without source power it simply closes a switch instead of completing the circuit. As Mike said, cross that bridge when you get to it.

[Hypoid]

Found this one for cheaper. Not sure if it would be as good of quality or not.
...And you don't have to clean the stud, nut or washer.

I learned this lesson long ago: "Looks" clean don't mean anything.

I had a motorcycle in the shop for accident repair. The guy who owned the business was an awesome mechanic! Two weeks after getting my bike back, the electric start would not work. All the other electrical worked great! The battery was new, the starter was well within spec, the charging system was working, the mechanic even replaced a bunch of battery cables when he had it in the shop the first time.

After spending a week checking everything, and finding nothing, he took the ground cable off the frame and polished both surfaces with fine sand paper. Two weeks in the fine Nebraska springtime (humid) weather was enough to develop enough resistance at that connection to inhibit current flow. Yes, it "looked clean."

Take a look at this picture again. If you are pushing your test lead into the end of that stud with all the cables bolted to it, and not finding battery voltage, you are doing something wrong.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/FRONT%20RANGE/IN%20FROM%20SWITCH.jpg

[Hypoid]

Are we there yet?

[dscowell]

Currently out of town for the week. I'll go threw it again when I get back and update everyone.

[Jim]

FTFY...


Currently on spring break, sitting on a warm beach, drink in the hand, with cute gals all around. No way am I thinking about this project.

[dscowell]

Ok I went through and tested everything again. From the picture in step one with the lead touching that green wire with the key in the crank position I got 11.8V. With step 2 I couldn’t find on my relay where you connected your lead. I put the lead in the stud where the green wire connects and got 7.3V.

[Tom]

Did you ever get it running?

[dscowell]

So after I replaced the CPS for the second time it still wouldn't start. I towed it to the local jeep dealership and they said the only thing wrong was a dead battery. Got there and it started but it was super weak so I figured that battery was just acting up and needed to be replaced. Was able to drive it home but the next day it wouldn't even crank so now I have to find the cause of that.

[Hypoid]

Ok I went through and tested everything again. From the picture in step one with the lead touching that green wire with the key in the crank position I got 11.8V. With step 2 I couldn’t find on my relay where you connected your lead. I put the lead in the stud where the green wire connects and got 7.3V.
Shine the end of the stud where the battery cable bolts on and measure voltage there. As it stands, you should be able to touch the green wire that goes to the starter, to the battery stud, and make the starter crank.

If that does not work, jumper that green wire directly to the battery.

[dscowell]

I've done that and it got it to crank. I replaced my ignition switch today and got nothing.

[Hypoid]

OK, if you can find 12 Volts on the end of the stud where the battery cable attaches to the relay, spend the $55 for a new relay.

At this point, I'm not sure you have verified the battery connection to the relay. For $55, I'd like to be certain.

[dieseldoc]

Sounds like it could be the issue.

[Hypoid]

I feel there is something lost in translation.


I tested the voltage at the stud and got 0 Volts. I replaced the larger wire and cleaned off the stud and all the wires and still got nothing.


Yes it was the wire from the positive terminal going to the ignintion relay? Whatever part it was that has the stud with all the other wires by the battery.


When I put my lead on the end of the stud the largest reading I got was 0.3V. When I put it on the eyelets for all the wires I get the same as my battery.


If you have the cables mounted on the stud, you should have voltage on the end of the stud, simple as that. Once you cross that bridge, you can think about how the relay functions.

[dscowell]

Very well could be the case.

[dscowell]

Tested the end of the stud and got 0.18 V with everything connected.

Alright so out of curiosity and lack of patient I took the relay a part and found a resistor. Following the color code it says it should have 270 ohms give or take 10%. When it tested it I got a constant 21 ohms.

[Hypoid]

That resistor is parallel to the coil, you should not see the resistance indicated unless you isolate the resistor from the coil.

Anyway, I'm working on another picture. Reference page 8W-170 in the manual I "loaned" to you.

[Hypoid]

OK, with an ode to Alice's Restaurant, here are the color photos with the circles and the arrows... :)

First, the ignition switch sends current to the solenoid, which has it's own ground. As the current goes through the coil, it creates an electromagnetic field, which pulls the contactors closed.
If you have power here, and a place for the current to go, the electromagnet should pull the contactors together.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/FRONT%20RANGE/IN%20FROM%20SWITCH1.jpghttp://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/FRONT%20RANGE/COIL%20TO%20GROUND.jpg



When the contactors touch, the current should flow from the battery terminal, to the starter and ECU terminals.

IN

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/FRONT%20RANGE/BATT%20STUD.jpg

OUT

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/FRONT%20RANGE/OUT%20TO%20ECU.jpghttp://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee120/Hypoid/FRONT%20RANGE/OUT%20TO%20STARTER1.jpg

[Hypoid]

SO! In a nutshell, if you don't have power coming in from the battery, there is nothing to go out to the starter and ECU.

Since you have taken the relay apart, post some pictures, I wanna see the contactors. :)

[dscowell]

Thanks for the pictures. Only one thing I found that's different. Where you point out that it goes to the ECU on Jeepforum someone said it was to the fuel pump or something related to that. Also on the plate you can see an F right above the plug which makes me believe it has to do with the Fuel. (SOL Starter solenoid. I ignition. G Ground). You would know better then I would but I guess just something to think about.

Upon request here are some pictures from the inside of the relay.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1dEKm3w_S9Tz2stAfeBr_l_akVIGAh8ybVhdk1S3qZ_CBGoh3R VdwqmLVJkxFBfYiidYuIXNXrDCPk-BHPSOT9DjqS0hD9-inZHH7s5npXlgU_CXL_3ioXRH5EQQVD_rgrP22rjQfoRpYVwuN ZeoJRLdsUKq3koRe-v7SMdM88o9hU_cBkJwlDdaoX8fkIPj9yBdlqBkBPHMWJPGUfXF b4sqWJrH_VZOybzZcyMxrEYcxT04WMPmZq2z5CvWUzqbShLlQs C29CVIOCs7zJMGgoxgRJcwFPNSY7nnNETvAle3RQ7GLltQyznU iLXWDsPWbJUDuV8MBJLE_MyW4VN_NX9EaIfoOWUNhgX7GLn0_W axRk1y-PumoM8RPwGRcFWIdt5UQT8qARnW2gsCLjxopiMHbKFTavrx1Zm EG9of1nVGdQ0uMjQU6m_lw2Y-Xd5bzPtVZOjrCLfZd62J2tQEe3zRHd1UoXuASu5Uk4UicMzfCr XwcqPZL6WZTualomYJSX9z-L1vCbvO5LLP4tfMP3antxfLxbfqtut6BZgeD2qlVXG6B16_lkv oF8D1q4-nfcxq=w548-h973-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/emyoO4y2CKMaZgqYnkrAb-II_4hD79cW66kBzNoexfJP5pUW-ZWiO_IVxYqEj8NdFZ80h3uoXMnPV8eQprIe0Q52-pZ0NizMjFEh1-O7sDUj9wEJIpvohoVeggqKZCXcrEEW5xey6J8xTlFkg_pZUSqE XOJsR_sD_I9ti-HJFYFRf4R7woivVe5khhW0_Q3lIRrkr4sKO0rVqKyKyuUM5zzi U9EiTidvjyGoSzCxPHc9CNKHgXSLQYEbhEs7iVJYXMKuglQs9N xjz7op0WFjk8klXNesaY4zG6EHj39p7KcNusxfSDkdYbumGRxm yIzv265wx6KTg1hqfpiwqeR4zcoi60ST4fd2m8w9VTPBRPb3wJ 9vD8IFkIwK9q8bU84zpfhSSjno0cONlQs5b3wVgvHTX2EFYkAh Cj2MP-furgl7t-Rnlq3chCrveTnAH1_mOjHYfTtkpuRWNRKlSSxHBc8_l7drkKE9 pkZeSo7eGTflfujwdwJCJQx2aY14DyLDaPc6LZpnxlwYPN6UWT e92Hdi-VsixUYD0kx0VjNBrYnXnyC_FV4RALLT62HsRABa3xZh=w548-h973-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EMqB7XVxMcE3V2BJMCrmb-8gItuJqANScm8SSIq_THsL_3Eq8mkBZuW0PZAZ2OPGFL26_HiD GP0WDLrXzI2TT8va7NDOo0RoAzjje9ECwiujYDfNRUBGvBQz58 XKv6iTK0cgTMzfrNMkDtZj_aq_wUdVUvAEdEmlOs2MUS5n22-1XKbZ554mFjuAGAAsMQgjO1LENvKEw6FPd2KC8vO9DFTHAgIoG CMI0Ud8n3_DTHPd0IoGHnu9sfSxwSpTK4L7iyBFTNzCbns0aCo ZKxOMTGOK-wPf-tCLGck1col6jmujiZZJC2C_uBExVtOVxzZWKz99gA7a18wUc2O G1NpRyfUPKWLF39xvDTDvxKIT6Zo9zEfmeFiaAkLUQp27or8VF 4s1bWQfjfo5bpl2usI8efcG7R_XgzpCwsX6jdkCaTP1u2xlEdi DmRd1_E19KQSeALheZ-t_VhT7QyNEfNzgm5z-lCeIMe9qHB7CX9vt8L_spfUV5kOLJOG37aXKFxOHflntMBBcFk 35ugs011PMlgkmhnCubxQA3XvKDjLKwmMrsB3_mxv05d0C8Fid 2HBIHmsA=w548-h973-no

There was another piece with the bolt and I'll get you the picture tomorrow with that set up. I you want better photos to keep for later I can take some better ones.

[Hypoid]

Where you point out that it goes to the ECU on Jeepforum someone said it was to the fuel pump or something related to that.They were right, the orange wire does go to the fuel pump, among other things. When you reference pages 8W-170, 8W-181 & 8W-182, you see everything that draws power through the starter relay.

Looking at your pictures, the contactors don't look like they have been hot, can't look for pitting without separating them.

[dscowell]

Was able to get my truck started by taking a screw drive from my positive to the ignition wire on the starter relay while someone turned the key. Took my truck to a shop and they said that two wires got chewed up and that was my problem. Thanks everyone for helping.

[xaza]

Glad to hear you got it.

[Tom]

Glad to hear you got it.
Ditto

[dieseldoc]

Glad you got it figured out.
Got to love the renex wiring.

[Chris]

Nice Dante, perseverance pays off!

[Patrolman]

Fixing the 2 wires shouldn't be a huge deal, now that you know what is wrong. Glad that you got it figured out.

My Scout actually has a switch wired into the dash that does the same thing as jumping the starter with the screwdriver. My buddy owned it prior to me, and he got tired of having to crawl under the Scout to start it. He said he would get funny looks at places like gas stations when the Scout would start with him under it and nobody in the cab. Most of the time the ignition switch worked, but it wasn't completely reliable. It might be worth considering wiring something in. You could also get one of these as it does the same thing. Cheap to and easy to carry around with you. Handy for doing things like compression tests or testing for spark.

http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7853-Remote-Starter-Switch/dp/B0009XQUKW?ie=UTF8&keywords=starter%20jumper%20switch&qid=1460129511&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2