What Broke?

[Chris]

Hmmm, not my ideal ending of the trip to Moab but probably a result of banging around on the rocks. :(

Made it just past Grand Junction when smoke started billowing from under the hood and everywhere else. It looks like I blew the front pinion seal but the front DS shouldn't have been moving.

No the hubs weren't locked, no the TC case wasn't engaged, just driving at 80mph in high.

Ideas are welcome.

It's at Safari Ltd here in GJ compliments of AAA. I wheeled with a guy from Safari and had his card in my pocket.

Kinda bummed...

[DETN8R]

My front drive shaft spins when I drive but I believe that to be because its not engaged at the transfer case.

[Jamie]

There is way too much fluid on the ground, as well as leading up too the big leak to be a diff. My guess is that it's the transmission. This is only because of the amount of fluid I see on the ground. Is it an automatic? Did it stop "driving"? or did you just stop and by that point couldn't tell where it had originated thereby opting for a tow? I know from experience that once ATF gets too hot it will spit out of the vent tube on the next high speed run you take. IMHO of course.

[Chris]

The engine oil, transmission fluid levels are good. It is an automatic and as smoke billowed behind us I started pulling off I-70, it bucked a couple times then died after getting off the road. It wouldn't start again...

The only good thing is that Safari LTD is a 4x4 and Toyota shop, a sponsor of Cruise Moab so I shouldn't have to deal with someone who doesn't know this truck.

[Patrolman]

I am baffled. What is the fluid? 90W? Engine oil? ATF? Rather baffled why it wouldn't start unless something major went wrong with the engine. That just doesn't sound good... Keep us posted!

[Pathrat]

I have no input other than 'Sorry, that sucks'

[Chris]

I am baffled. What is the fluid? 90W? Engine oil? ATF? Rather baffled why it wouldn't start unless something major went wrong with the engine. That just doesn't sound good... Keep us posted!

I'm pretty sure it's 90W, motor & tran fluids were good, didn't check the diffs.

[4Runninfun]

did you check the t-case fluid level?

[Funrover]

So all levels are good? only items left are T-case and diffs.looking at positions I am gonna say the t-case went buh bye.

[4Runninfun]

yeah but also the fact that it wouldn't start back up is really strange. and hey at least this happened on the way back home and not on the trail!

[Funrover]

Is there coolant in your oil?

[Brody]

Bummer....Least it is not on the trail way back in BFE...

The type of fluid would be good to know. I would say tranny, but the motor not starting is a fooler. Not good anyway you look at it.

Keep us posted

[Jamie]

It's possible that the hot fluid got on a sensor and fouled it. Hence no start. Just a guess. I'm still sticking with it not being a diff, it just looks like way too much fluid on the ground. T-case as Aaron said?

[InsanityIsBorn]

bummer Chris.... I have been there....although for me it was a loose timing gear...siezed the engine up real good....ummm maybe try putting the tranny and xfer in N and try starting it??

[Chris]

I made it back :)

In a Ford Focus :(

Transmission fluid went from red before leaving to brown now and smells bad, burned. The A440F (auto) is known to have issues when overheated though my temp light never went on. The engine is trying to turn over but something's stopping it. All indications are the tranny is seized.

[Brody]

Ouch! Burnt tranny fluid is never a good sign for the heath of your automatic. If it seized, it is probably toast, I'm sorry to say. When you get it repaired, you might consider the addition of not just one, but two, inline transmission coolers. And not the cheapo ones, either. You will be able to run much more fluid, hence a cooler (and happier) tranny. The last auto I had in a 4x, I found some a couple if very narrow coolers that I mounted inside the frame rail out of harm's way and just plumbed them together. I never had any auto transmission problems after that. And considering the cost of rebuilding an auto trans, it is really cheap insurance.

PS

If you are going to have it rebuilt, go for all the upgrades that you can get or afford. Make sure that you tell the tranny folks that you wheel with it. What you will probably get is a shift kit, a heavier 2nd ring and a better torque converter. Expect to pay for these, but it'll be well worth it in the long run-performance and longer transmission life.

[Chris]

Rebuilding the A440F is an art that not everyone can do reliably. The choices are a very cool rebuilt from Australia that's expensive before shipping, a used - Safari LTD has a couple in the 100K mile age and then there's the third choice of tossing the auto and going to a 4 or 5 speed.

Barb and I decided to go with the 5 speed, the shops next slot is the 3rd week of May to start so we're missing some great wheeling time which is a bummer. The other bummer is I have to sell the 55 to be able to afford the conversion.

[Funrover]

DAMN I am sorry to hear about that. Is there any other way where you can keep the 55? I don't want to see you get rid of it!

[Patrolman]

Yikes! Won't be able to swap in a 5 speed yourself? I would definately be looking into doing what I could myself before spending that kind of cash. Too bad that you would have to sell the 55. Wonder if you could sell the 62 to put the $ into the 55? Just a thought...

[Chris]

DAMN I am sorry to hear about that. Is there any other way where you can keep the 55? I don't want to see you get rid of it!

This will cost as much as I paid for the truck! With no rust and 65K on the rebuilt motor I'll be driving a new truck. No way I can keep the 55 especially considering we're buying a new house.


Yikes! Won't be able to swap in a 5 speed yourself? I would definately be looking into doing what I could myself before spending that kind of cash. Too bad that you would have to sell the 55. Wonder if you could sell the 62 to put the $ into the 55? Just a thought...

The truck is in Grand Junction which is a big issue. I'm also not competent enough to make the conversion in a timely manner w/o a garage. Safari is highly regarded and I'll bite the bullet to have it done right.

We talked about putting the drive train including axles under the 55 but we love the 62 and the creature comforts it provides over a 55. Kind of like the difference between a 62 and 100 series.

[Patrolman]

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from. I have a tow dolly and a good enough work space. When my junk breaks, I can usually drag it home one way or another and then repair it on my schedule. Sorry to hear that it all went down the way it did. Makes you wish you took the 55, huh?!

[Brody]

That is way too harsh! Sorry to hear that, Chris. At the moment, LaDawn and I are crossing our fingers and hoping that we don't have any unforeseen expenses coming our way in the near future, too.

[Chris]

Thanks folks, it's a big failure that's expensive to repair but dropping a 5 speed will provide much improved performance.

[Man Jerk]

I'm assuming that Safari LTD will be supplying all the parts for conversion, but if you need anything let me know.

[Chris]

I'm assuming that Safari LTD will be supplying all the parts for conversion, but if you need anything let me know.

You don't have the 5 speed do you?

This has changed a lot of plans for me Mark, I'll be deciding if I need to change my dibs on your wheels asap.

[Man Jerk]

You don't have the 5 speed do you?

This has changed a lot of plans for me Mark, I'll be deciding if I need to change my dibs on your wheels asap.

I figured as much Chris. Don't worry about it. You have bigger things to deal with.

I don't have a 5 speed. I do however have pretty much every other part you would need to do the conversion, and I have done it before. I do not however have the transfer case.

[Chris]

Thanks Mark, I'm leaving it all in Safari's hand, not going to "bring my own eggs to the diner" and all that. Get that 60 parted out and hauled away so you have room for a new project truck. :rolleyes:

How many days until "due date?"

[Man Jerk]

19.....:eek:

[Chris]

19.....:eek:

:woot::woot:

[InsanityIsBorn]

I might have my old A440f still at home... not sure... we just swapped the full drivetrain...the tranny was good iirc...I will ask my dad in a few. if you want me to...

[Chris]

I might have my old A440f still at home... not sure... we just swapped the full drivetrain...the tranny was good iirc...I will ask my dad in a few. if you want me to...

Thanks but I don't want another A440F, they die too young. Mine only had 250K on it. :D

Seriously H55F is calling my name. ;)

[InsanityIsBorn]

true dat

[SCRubicon]

Damn, Chris... What a crappy ending to such a fun trip. Sorry to see it happen to you. :(

[dirty toad]

Dude! That sucks balls!!

So what kind of $$$$ are they asking to do that job? You sure you don't want to drag it to my place (or syver's) and do it with us. I would only charge you beer for the labor... make that vodka, I need to cut out those extra calories and get back my girlish figure ;)

[Chris]

Thanks for stopping on I-70 with that monster machine of yours! Did you see the stripe I left? :eek:

Sorry about the 10 gallons it took you to get back to speed. :rolleyes:

I've tossed it around a lot but I've decided to have Safari do it for me. I need it for my July trip to Moab but don't want to spend all that time wrenching on it. I want to wheel sooner rather than later and they're a good shop and big sponsor of Cruise Moab.

They donated the RTT for the raffle and Hugh was the guy that gave all the kids t-shirts for their trail cleanup. Nice guy, cruiser owner, he can have my money. I wouldn't save enough to do it myself.

[dirty toad]

Thanks for stopping on I-70 with that monster machine of yours! Did you see the stripe I left? :eek:

Sorry about the 10 gallons it took you to get back to speed. :rolleyes:

I've tossed it around a lot but I've decided to have Safari do it for me. I need it for my July trip to Moab but don't want to spend all that time wrenching on it. I want to wheel sooner rather than later and they're a good shop and big sponsor of Cruise Moab.

They donated the RTT for the raffle and Hugh was the guy that gave all the kids t-shirts for their trail cleanup. Nice guy, cruiser owner, he can have my money. I wouldn't save enough to do it myself.

No worries about the stop. I would have pulled your rig to your house for you and let you drive my 60 if I thought you had something for me to hook up to.

But you still didn't tell me how much they are charging you for the swap :rolleyes:

[Chris]

But you still didn't tell me how much they are charging you for the swap :rolleyes:

I'm not sure yet. The tranny, clutch, etc will be new rather than used so it'll be pretty pricey. ;)

[usmcruiser]

Chris that sucks bad man!!! I'm sorry to hear that your tranny seized up like that, and that you have to sell the pig. hopefully it wont take to long to get Emily back on the road.

Does Safari have the tranny or do they have to source one too?

[Chris]

Chris that sucks bad man!!! I'm sorry to hear that your tranny seized up like that, and that you have to sell the pig. hopefully it wont take to long to get Emily back on the road.

Does Safari have the tranny or do they have to source one too?

Yeah, it sucks but stuff happens. Safari has used A440F's and H55F's but I'm going with a brand new one instead. Much nicer to know what you're starting with.

The tranny is around $2K new. :eek:

[5280Hawk]

Don't sell the 55, man. It will be too hard to replace down the road.

can you take out a small loan? I'll shut up now. :)

[dirty toad]

i paid $1250 for my H55 thru cruiser outfitters., but then you need a new bell housing as well if I am right.

Sucks dude.

If I had the $$ I would buy the pig off you just to make sure it stays close to you.

[Chris]

I'm not 100% sure, probably 95% right now that it is the tranny. Safari will be getting it in the shop Monday to confirm then we'll talk prices.

Maybe a TC doubler would be in order too. :lol:

No loans, we don't do them any more. ;)

[Patrolman]

Maybe a garage sale? Would raise $ plus less to move!

[Chris]

Only problem with that is that our last move was from a 3BR place to what's really 1BR now. We got rid of all our junk already.

Maybe a garage sale of Toyota parts starting with the 55. :rolleyes:

[Patrolman]

Yeah, that works too. When I moved from my parents place to my current place, I had an online "garage sale" of Patrol, Scout, and Subaru parts. Sold $4,000 or so in a matter of about 6 weeks. Glad I didn't have to move the stuff. Got to know the MailBoxes guy really well too!

[Patrolman]

Any updates on the 62?

[Chris]

Nope :(

[Chris]

Any updates on the 62?

It's on the rack now, should have the definitive word today.

[Chris]

The definitive answer to what broke: transmission oil pump seized

[Patrolman]

That'll do it! May as well have been running it on empty. Still kind of puzzled about why it wouldn't start though. Must be some sort of kill switch. Too bad it didn't give you a warning or shut down if temps got too high or pressure too low. Could have saved itself.

[Chris]

The pump failure caused a total transmission seize, the tranny was engaged when it failed not allowing motor to turn. :(

They confirmed the motor is unharmed which is the good news since it only has 65K miles on it. With new 5 speed and clutch it will be like a brand new truck again.

Of course it'll probably cost as much as I initially paid for the whole truck. :eek:

Good news is :princess: loves the 62. ;)

[Funrover]

gotta hate when that stuff happens!

[Chris]

I guess it all depends on your love of projects - nothing beats a reliable built rig that you can just enjoy, and seems your 62 is going to fit that bill.

Perhaps the silver lining in all of this will be an ability to keep it simple and keep it rolling. Time for 35's on the 62 :D?

I'd love to keep the 55 which I'm driving daily now, the more I drive it the more I hope nobody buys it. 35's on the 62? Sure! ARB in the front? Sure! If I still have the 55 when I get the 62 back I'm going to swap the ARB and 4:88's asap, then I'll really need 35's

[Patrolman]

The ARB is really getting around huh?! At least you will still have a sweet offroad setup. That will be one mean and reliable ride.

[Chris]

Yeah, it'll be great which is my only consolation in losing the pig. I wouldn't hesitate to take the 62 cross country as it was, now it'll be better.

[Chris]

My old tranny has been pulled and disassembled to confirm its demise. The pump and torque converter are toast. Black from burning and blue from burning real hot! Hugh, the owner, says I beat his previous record for the worst burn of an A440F.

Gave the go ahead so now it's just the waiting game...

[Tye]

This is the 1st that I'm hearing about this and am really sorry your trip turned out the way it did. Glad your getting it all worked out although the $$$ have to be so hard.

[Chris]

This is the 1st that I'm hearing about this and am really sorry your trip turned out the way it did. Glad your getting it all worked out although the $$$ have to be so hard.

Thanks Tye, it's hard not having anything to wheel :(

It appears as though the tranny cooler was blocked leading to the failure...

[Patrolman]

Any word on when to expect the job to be done? I might have a good excuse to go to GJ if you find you want to make a long day of it!

[Chris]

I'm hoping it won't be much past early June but time will tell. I hate to think that the first run I'll be able to take it on would be Barb driving on the Ladies Run!

[Chris]

Just agreed to tcase bearings and seals while they're at it - they're shooting for next week for me.

[Patrolman]

Nice! Must feel good that it will get done that fast. May as well do anything preventative while you are in there!

[Chris]

It feels like forever since it happened. :(

It would be stupid not to replace tcase parts at this point. ;)

[Chris]

Aaargh! Looks like it will be next week.