Synthetic Oil and Flat Towing? (and update)

[RockyMtnGal67]

Hi All -

I am baaack! LOL Hey, I apologize for the long hiatus but work had me MORE than buried and what little time off I had was spent pretty much in a catatonic state -- I just watched the Shining this weekend and am concerned that all work and no play... So the XJ has a name and her name is Harriet. So if I refer to Harriet I am not talking about my grandmother.

I digress.

So far: new (used) intake manifold with throttle body, exhaust man, throttle position sensor, lift (shocks, coils, add-a-leaf), steering stabilizer, new track bar, rims and tires. COMING: new injectors, injector clips & wires, cap, rotor, plugs, wires. THEN: she really needs a new cat and cat-back exhaust. Yikes on that one!

Are any of you running AmSoil in your rigs? Again, a lot of my questions will be dumb ones because I just don't know. She has basically 200K on her and of course her whole life with standard oil. Would there be a reason to NOT go with synthetic at this point? I would like to get a little more out of this motor before a new one and will do what I can to make her last.

Also, all I have read says that an XJ flat tows easily and that neutral is really neutral in the transfer case. That neither drive-shaft turns when the transfer case is in neutral. I sure hope that is true! I bought a BlueOx tow set up on craigslist -- it was used three times. Stole it! And I am doing a bit-o-bartering for a custom front bumper that incorporates the Jeep side of the tow plate into the bumper so I don't have to also have that plate on the truck. It has a fairly simple release system so the tow tongue-thingy can come off the Jeep pretty easily. The bumper on the RV could tow two or three Jeeps! LOL

Gotta get moving -- a long day at the office.
Thank you!
RMG

[Patrolman]

Would there be a reason to NOT go with synthetic at this point?

Also, all I have read says that an XJ flat tows easily and that neutral is really neutral in the transfer case. That neither drive-shaft turns when the transfer case is in neutral.


In regard to synthetic oil in an older engine, my experience is that if you have any seals that are getting old and close to leaking, the synthetic can leak significantly. What may have not leaked at all with traditional oil may be a sizeable leak with synthetic. I had that happen on my previous 4Runner about 15 years ago. First thing I did was put in synthetic, and the next thing I did was fix several leaks. If you have all new seals though, everything will be happy.

Regarding flat towing, "most" rigs in 4wd neutral are not disengaging the driveshafts and they will continue to spin. I am sure the XJ is the same setup. When you move the shifter from 2WD into 4HI, it locks together the front and rear driveshafts. Then when you move from 4HI into N it disengages the power from the transmission to the driveshafts, but the driveshafts are still locked together. Of course when you shift into 4LOW it re-engages the power from the transmission to the driveshafts, and also shifts you into a lower gear. All that said, when the case in in N, the front wheels and rear wheels are still all locked together. Here is a simple example that I learned my lesson from:

MANY years ago a vehicle broke down and I had to get it in N to get it towed. There was some problem with the transmission (I think the shifter may have busted). This vehicle had no locking hubs. I put the t-case in N thinking it might solve the problem. Loaded the front wheels onto a tow dolly, I proceeded to drive forward with the tow vehicle. Since the front wheels were strapped down and unable to move, the rear wheels were also locked up. Fortunately it was a soft dirt road (and old tires on the dead truck). I proceeded to just tow the truck down the road, leaving a set of "skid" marks from the rear wheels that were unable to rotate because they were locked to the front wheels!

[Java]

I changed my LJ to Mobil 1 at about 60k and immediately my rear main started dripping and my valve cover leaked at the gasket and PVC grommets. After new seals it's been fine. I just switched my transmission to Royal Purple and my t-case to Mobil 1, but I pulled and replaced input/ output shaft seals first and so far no problems. It doesn't seem to leak through RTV in my experience.

The before and after pics look great, nice rig! :thumb:

[EKXJ87]

I bought a 92 4.0 with 180k and ran red line synethic oil and within 2000 miles the engine developed "blow by" out the dip stick. Maybe it was just a coincidence but on my current second used 4.0 I'm running plain old conventional oil.
Just my two cents.

[Hypoid]

If it works, don't fix it! :D

[Jim]

MANY years ago a vehicle broke down and I had to get it in N to get it towed. There was some problem with the transmission (I think the shifter may have busted). This vehicle had no locking hubs. I put the t-case in N thinking it might solve the problem. Loaded the front wheels onto a tow dolly, I proceeded to drive forward with the tow vehicle. Since the front wheels were strapped down and unable to move, the rear wheels were also locked up. Fortunately it was a soft dirt road (and old tires on the dead truck). I proceeded to just tow the truck down the road, leaving a set of "skid" marks from the rear wheels that were unable to rotate because they were locked to the front wheels!

Please to reference:
www.FrontRange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?24692-Exploded-T-Case (http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?24692-Exploded-T-Case)


LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[FINOCJ]

If it works, don't fix it! :D

Yup - if its been running conventional, keep it that way. If its been running synthetic, then keep it that way.

Also, Patrolman is correct about the flat towing with TC in neutral - the driveshafts will turn (unless you have manual hubs that can be unlocked - not standard on the XJ). Not a big problem for short tows - say an hour or less - but if your taking a road trip it might be worth looking into. I flat tow my old CJ to Moab and few other long hauls and I disconnect my drive shaft at the differential. Not sure how difficult that is on the XJ, but takes all of 3 min and 2 bolts for my old CJ. Of course, the axle shafts and ring and pinion will continue to turn inside the diff and get a little wear, but it saves some wear on u-joints as well as some unusual concerns for old Dana 18 transfer cases that don't apply to Xjs. It is simple easy and cheap way for me to go and it works well with the trade-off of a bit more wear on rolling parts.

One more thing - flat towing works much better if you have proper front end alignment. Looks like you have a recent lift - so if you haven't redone the alignment, now would be a great time to do it.

[Patrolman]

Please to reference:
www.FrontRange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?24692-Exploded-T-Case (http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?24692-Exploded-T-Case)


LOLOLOLOLOLOL


This was one of my parts Nissan Patrols. It had been running poorly and I intended to strip it which is why I didn't hesitate to just drag it through the soft dirt. I certainly wouldn't have done that with anything else. It was probably pretty amusing for anyone who saw the skid marks later and tried to figure out what happened.

[Patrolman]

I flat tow my old CJ to Moab and few other long hauls and I disconnect my drive shaft at the differential.

I do the same thing almost every time I flat tow something (or tow on the dolly since the rear wheels still turn). The rear driveshaft gets disconnected from the differential. It is good insurance.

[RockyMtnGal67]

Thanks for the reminder on the alignment. I knew we needed to get it done but had not thought about it with towing!! :)

[FINOCJ]

Not sure how it works with coil sprung front axles like your XJ - but for many solid axle front ends, the caster angle is critical to good flat towing. Without too little caster, the front wheels of the towed vehicle do not like to return to center as you come out of a turn, and the towed vehicle won't want to track as straight.

[Patrolman]

A few other thoughts...

You basically can't back up when flat towing. As you back up the vehicle behind you will go whatever direction it wants to. Of course you can disconnect the tow bar and back each vehicle separately. When we tried to back up before, fortunately I had a 2nd person with me, and they jumped into the towed vehicle to steer while we backed up. It worked well enough to get out of a parking lot. It is a whole different routine that trying to tow a trailer.

Also, in addition to the tow bar, you will need to have safety chains and some setup for tow lights. Some states also apparently require that the brakes operate on the vehicle being towed. When you press the brakes on your rig, the brakes on the vehicle being towed must also engage. Unsure of the law in Colorado and surrounding states. This could easily require additional equipment.

Last things to think about is that the steering wheel on the vehicle being towed has to be able to turn. This requires you to leave the key in the ignition (except pre-70's vehicles). When you do that it can easily drain the battery on the vehicle being towed. Either you would want do disconnect the battery or have a way to provide power to it from the tow vehicle. Also it would be wise to keep an extra key with you just in case you happen to lock the door with the key in the ignition of the towed vehicle. Would suck to get where you are going and find out your only key is in the ignition and the doors are locked! Just a few thoughts and lessons learned on my behalf. :)

[FINOCJ]

All good points from Jeff. Forgot about the steering wheel lock issue for newer rigs! I use the removable magnetic trailer lights - have no idea of what states they are legal in. My old jeep wiring is not the best - but if I had a new rig I would probably just set-it up with a trailer plug and use the vehicles taillights. No idea about the brakes - I thought that was only a requirement for heavy trailers/towed rigs. I wouln't want to recommend breaking the law - but for a strong tow vehicle and relatively light XJ, can't see the brakes being a functional issue as long as you drive properly for towing a vehicle. It is required (and a good idea) to use both safety chains from tow bar to the towing vehicle as well as a set of chains from the tow bar to the towed vehicle.

[Patrolman]

Apparently in Canada any axle on the ground has to have operational brakes. Some states are apparently the same rule. Here is great info:

http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/trailer-brakes/

For Colorado it states:

Colorado

Every trailer or semitrailer of a gross weight of 3,000 lbs. or more shall be equipped with brakes adequate to control the movement of and to stop and hold such vehicle. Brakes shall also be designed and connected that in case of an accidental breakaway of the towed vehicle, the brakes shall automatically apply.


Granted, flat towing is not a trailer, so the law is a little vague.

[dieseldoc]

Kyle,

You would be better off with a small 2 axle flat deck.
The DOT rules are different per each state.
But the brake away is required on any thing over 2500#'s
So you would have to do major break work.
As for the axles turning you will have all four tires on the ground turnni,g at highway speeds.
Thus wear and tear on your brand new tires.
Next is the issue of alignment, if things are out it will show and quickly.
Ball point issues will show quickly, you will experience slight scrub on the fronts from turnning.
The axles turnni,g will generate heat in the T-case, and the differentials.
Short tows are not a big deal but as you are in Elizabeth you will be way beyond short for any place you take it.
Drive shaft discontion is a good idea but again heat in the diff.
And still wear on the tires.


About your synthetic questions, switch the T-case to 10W-30 synthetic but lea e the engine.
At most a high mileage blend would be ok. A high mileage will condition the seals and help to bring them back to life.

With you tow rig, crew cab diesel dodge, if any thing we're to go wrong with your jeep it would drive right through it.
You would be well down the road before knowing anything was wrong.
Thus cause a ton of damage.
I would hate to see you lose your jeep after all the work you just put into it.
I ha e seen T-case drop into gear over the giant pot holes we have on the freeways in this country.
Your tow rig will just drive right through this condition and tear up transmissions, T-cases, axles and even engines.
Your automatic need the input to be turned to spin the pump, with the engine off and flat towing this will burn up you transmission, I have seen parking lock destroyed and thus destroying the transmission.
The newer jeeps really are not the friendly to long hual flat tows.
Manual trans can drop into gear as well.
Thus drive shaft disconnecting is the best option.
But a trailer is still the best way to go.
You get the break away brakes that DOT wants to see.
And you doing year up your drive train.


I know a few folks here will disagree with a lot of this.
But as a mechanic I have seen just about any and all types of damage possible from flat towing.
I know trailers are not cheep, yet I picked up a dove tail flat deck 2 axle trailer for $1500 a few years back. So it can be done cheep.
It is still the best way to go, it lets you back up with out issues and if something was to get busted up on the jeep, you can load it up and go home to fix it.

Hope your getting some rest so,you can enjoy your jeep.

[RockyMtnGal67]

OMG I love the input I get from you all. It is invaluable. Thank you! Thank you!

Okay based on all of your input - she will stay with the standard oil for sure! I am (just me) replacing the cap, rotor and wires today. I watched a video on the plugs and will give that a try too -- jeez I thought that would be easier and I wish I had done that when I had all that stuff off with the manifolds. I know for most of you it isn't a big deal but when I see the guy in the video pulling stuff of I inwardly groan. Then have a girlfriend coming over to walk me through soldering wire (she ran wire for phone company in CA) and I am going to replace the clips and wires that go on to the injectors. I may not get to that today only because I want to hop on a horse for a bit and need to do some housework too.

Also, I am headed into Denver today to look at a bumper-pull, flat bed because she will not only be towed behind the big blue Dodge but she will be part of a triple behind an RV fifth wheel! If something happened back there on a flat tow it is clear, we would never, ever know and at only about 3000 pounds it would barely register if she was GONE. We tow triple all the time with the boat so this tow system is not new to us at all and the tow rig and the RV are set up for it. Sea-Sea (the boat) weighs a LOT more than Harriet and the flatbed combined -- and we have a boat trailer with a crane that will lift a jet ski up to a platform above the boat -- it is quite a sight and Jon is quite the fabricator and it weighs a LOT when fully loaded. Harriet will be a piece of cake in comparison. When I really started to add up the flat-tow equipment and stuff (to do it right) it wasn't a heck of a lot cheaper than a trailer and a trailer can be used for so many things -- our place though is beginning to look like a trailer sales lot with a 3-horse, gooseneck horse trailer, Jon's work trailer (a rolling office and blacksmith shop), a little truck bed trailer, a gooseneck, deckover flat bed and now this one -- LOL) Trailers are GOOD.

AGAIN THANK YOU ALL!!

Brandon I will be over to TimbukThree this week to pick up my bumper but it will be after work on a day that Neal stays late. But fear not, he has fast become my parts guy. His prices are fair and everything is already pulled. As a wannabe the time I takes me to pull a part is worth the little mark up he charges.

Kind regards,
Kyle

[xaza]

At least you live in the right area, that many trailers I would have a major problem here. Sounds like a setup to see, where are the pictures? :D

[dieseldoc]

Kyle,

Good to hear. Glad you will be doing it right.
With your set up You would never know it something want wrong.
Pics pics pics.
Sounds like you are doing well with things.
Not to worry about getting together.
It will happen, thanksgiving is coming soon enough and Therese is thinking we will get together with you and Jon for that.
I would like to see you out on a trail ride to.
In face there is a run up at pickle gultch comming up. You little Xj could hadle that with ease.
We will PM you the info.

Keep plugging along.
Go get so.a saddle time and enjoy the weekend.

[RockyMtnGal67]

Pictures of the "train" and the trailer system :)

[Patrolman]

Yeah, if that is what you plan to tow it with, I would certainly go with the trailer. Flat towing isn't too bad if it is the only thing you are towing, but I wouldn't flat tow as a triple.

[RockyMtnGal67]

Okay - Trailer purchased!! LOL Basically it is brand new.

I know, I know -- sort of "in with both feet" but we were honestly looking for one that would also work for motorcycles too and that $ squirreled away but had never thought of getting one that would work for the Jeep too! And who can't use a 16' trailer on a pretty regular basis? So it is a win-win. Found an awesome deal (LOVE Craigslist!) on a flat bed, bumper pull, with two, 3500 pound axles. The guy used it ONCE -- bought a car in Texas and bought the trailer to haul it back on and sold it. We paid $1400 for it and I am tickled (found the exact same trailer -- same make and really new for $2500 in Castle Rock) SWEET deal we got!) So now I have BlueOx tow thingy for sale! That shouldn't be hard to sell -- they go quick on Craiglist.

Anyway, gotta git out there to work on the Jeep :) This is fun! Oh I have got to WASH DOGS. Labs are blowing coats and it is impossible to keep the house clean!

[dieseldoc]

nice! I knew you find something for a good price.
$1400 for a 16 foot 7000# load you will use it a lot more than you think right now.
We used mine for a ton of stuff.
By the time I sold it(made money on the sale too) we had easily put 20k miles on it.
Trailer it for sure with that set up.
Better to spend the little bit on a trailer than have to spend a lot on your jeep if something happened.

[Patrolman]

Sounds like a fantastic deal on a trailer! You certainly won't be disappointed in your choice to go with a flatbed. After a while you will wonder how you ever lived without one.