Air Care Colorado ....

[DoctorDuke]

In case you didn't know.

My truck finally passed and is good to go, but what a complete joke.

I haven't updated (or started a new ) build thread yet, but long story short I put a 3.4 5vz-fe into the 88 4runner. ( pretty easy swap really ) I took care to do all the emissions stuff with the cats and evap system and didn't really cut any corners.

So, you look up getting emissions tested on an engine swap and basically they say 1. has to be a newer engine 2. has to have all the emissions equipment for that engine. No big deal right?

I roll up to my local Air Care Colorado station and they do their thing make me pay my $25 and then tell me that it failed... Well, actually all the actual measurements where well under the limits - way under the truck is running very clean and smooth. It failed the visual bit because it doesn't have the Air Injection Pump installed - well no **** it doesn't the 3.4 doesn't have that stupid stuff like the 3.0 did. - but they have to judge it based on what was in there, and to get them to base it on the new engine I have to go have it inspected and the state ref will do something and allow them to inspect it as a 3.4.

Call the number they gave me, it's to a place in Denver, he gives me a different number, the lady there is confused and apparently I must be the only person around here to ever swap an engine and try to get it through emissions.

Make my appointment and drive to this special center a ways away and wait for an hour while they go through my truck in pain staking detail ( before this point I was under the impressions they would look and say "yup this is a 3.4L toyota engine, here is the paper work to have them test it based on that" ) - they are tearing into the engine bay. After an hour he comes in and says it failed because the pcv hose is off and something about computer dtc... I'm pretty pissed because I thought I was squared away. (I'm pretty sure they pulled it out while checking it over - he said he tried to put it back as a favor but couldn't make it work) I go out and take half a second to put that hose back on and fire up my new obd 2 and do not see anything about dtc... I call back and try to make an appointment - but have to wait another week.

Drive back over and more of the same waiting - comes out and fail... This time it is the obd 2 monitors not being ready...(last time he said dtc, nothing about monitors...) Ok, this is kind of my fault. I actually haven't had an obd2 engine and had recently disconnected the battery to work on a few other issues. But they don't have any public information about what the hell the inspection is about. I figured i was good without any codes.

So, I complain a little bit - why do I have to come in and wait and then be told these things? Why don't they put what the actual requirements are up on the website? Well... "There are over 40 pages and it can be confusing so..." I'm an academic chap - if they posted these 40 pages and told me what they where looking for... I would have done it right first. Getting judged on unknown criteria sucks.

In the mean time I start really learning about OBD2 and readiness monitors and sensors and well, they are kinda ugly. Drive cycles and conditions to make the ecu do these self test are not easy to replicate on demand and for the most part require driving around a lot... not something I have time or energy to do especially with temp tags running out.

I make my third appointment, which between my personal schedule and theirs isn't easy or convenient. I'm prepared with my laptop driving up there monitoring all the ecu functions and get there early to make sure no hoses came loose or oil could burn off the manifold and smoke or any reason to fail again ( not that they've told me exactly what they can or can not fail for ) ((double funny, I haven't finished wiring reverse lights, horn, rear defrosters, rear wipers - which are considered safety things in my book but they don't look or care))

Getting on with my rambling - I finally pass. I get a piece of paper that I have to hold onto for life (no copies) when i get emissions done in the future. Oh yeah, and I get to go back through line and do the regular emissions testing now.

Go back through the air care colorado test and pass ( actually had slightly higher emissions levels than the first time, but still under a quarter of the limit ) but they want $25 again. You only get 10 days to fix and re-test for free... but if I had known, or you know they posted this inspection bs somewhere first i could have done tha process first and saved the first $25. But they don't tell anyone that. Now with the scheduling inspections, weekends, and the unknown goal post - there is no way to get this done in 10 days.... Talk to managers, sweet talk the girl, plead my case which everyone agrees is kinda crappy - but they can't override the system and I'm stuck paying another $25. So. $50 4 trips to the center, over 4 hours waiting, and almost a month later I can now finish registration my truck.

Good job air care colorado - I could have kept and pass my polluting, oil leaking, oil burning inefficient 3.0 motor and passed your fake air quality test, but you rather punish me and make me jump through hoops for putting a newer, cleaner, more modern engine in my truck.

It isn't about air quality, it is about money.

[Chris]

Been there Duke. I used their "help" center which didn't help at all other than informing me that my exhaust system was modified. No sh!t, but it still had all the cats and sensors. It took me 7 attempts to get my old FJ62 to pass and I only passed then because i loaded it up with isopropyl alcohol and ran it right into an open bay while it was nice n hot. Passed. Sold it to a guy in Iowa that didn't have to deal with emissions.

Oh yeah, their guidelines state that they can't test any vehicle with tires that measure 35" or higher. I had 35's but they measured at 34.5" which was another problem. I showed them where it stated what I referred to and they told me that was wrong and that they go by the tire size marked on the tire not the actual measurement. After "discussing" this with the manager I was told they'd fix the write-up on the website. Yeah, I'm willing to bet it still hasn't been changed.

Now I just watch for drive by testing, coast on through and hope I get a "pass."

[Patrolman]

So, I complain a little bit - why do I have to come in and wait and then be told these things? Why don't they put what the actual requirements are up on the website? Well... "There are over 40 pages and it can be confusing so..." I'm an academic chap - if they posted these 40 pages and told me what they where looking for... I would have done it right first. Getting judged on unknown criteria sucks.


There isn't any reason this stuff shouldn't be posted. Other than that people may know the regs better than the inspectors, and start to argue with them. It would be WAY too convenient to be able to do things right the first time without any surprises!

Also, would the 3.0 have passed? I would have tested it with the original engine, and then done the swap. It buys you 2 years, and like Chris said, you could probably just pass on the drive-by monitors going forward.

Personally, I am prepping a car for a swap. When I do, I intend to get the e-test done before I even bother to put the title in my name. Then I don't have to worry about the temp tags expiring.

[DoctorDuke]

Going through the actual test the guy ahead of me got pulled through without getting tested, but was still inside waiting... They told him sometimes the push button 4wheel drive turns on by itself? and he had to go through the all wheel drive lane ( even though they directed him to the regular 2x lane) - but they put him at the back of the line! he was a little irritated.

[Patrolman]

The WORST case ever there was they failed my truck for a visual test because my 1987 Toyota pickup didn't have all the equipment that the sticker under the hood said. I just about went loose on those people! Basically my response was "are you blind? The truck is dark brown and the hood is tan camo. CLEARLY the hood didn't come on the truck from the factory!" This was after 6 years or ownership, and it had been tested multiple times, but I was selling the truck. I went home and scraped off all the stickers under the hood. When it FINALLY passed the guy had to go through a bunch of documents to find what my truck was equipped with. It was a 22r, and was the last year for it so not many were made. It passed no problems.

[EKXJ87]

The Air Care Colorado Does SUCK!!!
The only reason Weld County is testing is because Denver needed additional testing to qualify for more government funding (At least that what the county clerk told me). both times that I've taking my 87XJ for testing the person pulls out this "War and Peace" size book like there just trying to find something to fail me on. I've failed for not having hood?

IMO it's truly a test for discouraging older rides, did you notice that you pay and then they tell you to sit in the vehicle BEFORE they give you the results.

[94ToyBear]

My 89 yj had and engine swap from a 99 Cherokee.
Air care didnt even test it, they cought me lol
Did the inspection was pretty sure it would fail due to the fack my OBD2 scanners do not communicate through the OBD port.
Dont have a check engine light, and really was not sure what the requirement was to pass other then the engine had to be 3 years newer and OBD communication, check engine light, and Cats.

Well soon after failing,the e test i blew up the rear diff,
It was kind of a blessing, disguise! My shift indicator light was on because i drove down in 4X4 and no rear drive shaft.....the guy said hell pass the check engine light off with my shift indicator light......of course i shut my mouth!! And said thinks and even was wanting to tip the guy a 20! Lol
I was still worried that Air care would not pass it because the check engine light did not show when key in in the run position....theye didnt catch it and yet too.
Its really all a joke...

[Patrolman]

It took me 7 attempts to get my old FJ62 to pass and I only passed then because i loaded it up with isopropyl alcohol and ran it right into an open bay while it was nice n hot. Passed.

Been there, done that. Alcohol and over-inflated tires. That was the difference between a pass and a fail for one of my cars some time ago.

[Chris]

I don't know about all trucks but they sure did tighten the emissions on my old truck too.

[94ToyBear]

Also one time took my girls 89 Honda to get tested....pulled up and the lady said "CANT TEST IT" keep driving forward" i had to get out of the car and and ask another employe why, she had to track the lady (manager) down abd ask why....she said there was a nail in the tire....i said where is it....she pointed, i looked.... And it was a rock!!!! Still didnt pass Brake light was on...drive to the store got a fluid in and tested. Got in to it with the same lady after i got my pass test.....i called her manager the next day and was told they had a few complaints against her and it will be handled

[94ToyBear]

Last year i has my e test done on my Lexus is300
Its a rear wheel drive compact car...they were sooooooo confused why the front wheels were not truning and had to ask me why....i had to explain to them Why....

[DoctorDuke]

Also, would the 3.0 have passed? I would have tested it with the original engine, and then done the swap. It buys you 2 years, and like Chris said, you could probably just pass on the drive-by monitors going forward.



Well, yeah that is a great idea and would be my advice for anyone in the future. I picked this up as a half done swap when I was looking for a new frame/body for my other project so it wouldn't have been an option. I doubt I would have thought about that even if had been an option.

[DoctorDuke]

IMO it's truly a test for discouraging older rides, did you notice that you pay and then they tell you to sit in the vehicle BEFORE they give you the results.

Oh yeah, it's about money, funding, and selling newer cars - definitely not about the environment. They didn't have me sit in the truck before the results, but I could totally see them doing that so people don't argue ( like i tried to ).

To be fair everyone working there was nice enough, and it's the bureaucracy of the entire system that makes it suck so hard.

[Brian]

I had a similar situation with my Scout (before the engine swap). I lived in Kalifornia and had to source all the emissions equipment the previous owner had removed. Got it all done, everything all hooked up and passed the emissions part with room to spare. The guy failed me because the fuel filler neck did not have the hose reducer to prevent filling with "regular unleaded" fuel. :mad: :confused: You can buy them at AutoZone for under $5 so I got one and wedged it in there and drove back. Of course I had to go through the revenue generating process again, but I passed the visual inspection the second time.

[Spieg]

The program may have been a good thing back in the day (and that's debatable), but it's just ridiculous these days...

It's certainly not about the environment, and I don't really think it's about making money ($25 a shot can't be making a ton of profit with their overhead costs). More than anything I think it's an employment program.

[Patrolman]

I wouldn't be terribly opposed to this if the state were running it. Instead it is a private person who owns all the stations and is basically printing money. None of it goes to the state and it is essentially a monopoly. Nobody else can join and of course it is mandatory. It is like having a money tree.

Here is interesting info from when Envirotest first came to Colorado:

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/1994/05/02/184095-firm-not-choking-on-success/

[The StRanger]

We are about to go through this with smurf. The 81 82 broncos never came with a 302\5.0. His came with the 4.9 straight 6 with air pump. Hoping they just run the idle, 2500, idle test

[Patrolman]

Idle/2500/Idle is only for model years 1981 and older. Had to get that done on the 69 Chevy when I sold it recently. The funniest was when I had my Scout II in for its only e-test. They couldn't figure out how to open the hood since it pops the reverse direction. They had to have me come out and help.

[DoctorDuke]

The program may have been a good thing back in the day (and that's debatable), but it's just ridiculous these days...

It's certainly not about the environment, and I don't really think it's about making money ($25 a shot can't be making a ton of profit with their overhead costs). More than anything I think it's an employment program.

I think there are grant programs and other federal funding type shenanigans going on that supplement the $25 fee there.

[newracer]

I know a guy that used to work there. He said anyone with any intelligence is immediately promoted to a supervisor or manager position. The turnover rate of employees is very high and most of the techs are idiots. After a few months he was running one of the stations up here and making pretty good money. However he couldn't stand the idiots so he quit.

[Java]

I had to take my 88 YJ to the referee after a Howell conversion to the 258, ACC failed me too. Fortunately Howell gave great documentation and a CARB sticker, but it was a PITA. I had the paper laminated, sold it with the Jeep.

[redneck23ms]

I'm sitting at acc right now with my jeep on 36s getting tested. Hope it passes as I damn sure don't want to come back.

[redneck23ms]

FAILED! I hate this damn state. Passed the a tual emissions test but failed because I have a fuel cell and they can't test the cap. And the technician in talked to said yes those aren't street Legal. I have an appointment tomorrow so the team h can look at it.

[DoctorDuke]

FAILED! I hate this damn state. Passed the a tual emissions test but failed because I have a fuel cell and they can't test the cap. And the technician in talked to said yes those aren't street Legal. I have an appointment tomorrow so the team h can look at it.

I can't believe they even let you test with 36" tires on. you can put a stock filler neck and cap on the cell and should be good to go

[Patrolman]

FAILED! I hate this damn state. Passed the a tual emissions test but failed because I have a fuel cell and they can't test the cap. And the technician in talked to said yes those aren't street Legal. I have an appointment tomorrow so the team h can look at it.

Just put a filler tube and a cap where the hole in the body is. Then they can test your "cap".

[Spieg]

I have a locking cap on my Jeep and they always pass it because they say they don't have equipment to test that kind of cap.

[newracer]

I have never been failed for my fuel cell but I am using the factory filler and cap. One time they couldn't find it though because it is tucked under the fender due to my comp cut. I had to point it out to the tech.

[newracer]

I can't believe they even let you test with 36" tires on. you can put a stock filler neck and cap on the cell and should be good to go

The Mulberry location can test large tires.

[Jim]

The Mulberry location can test large tires.

Huh??? If I rolled in with not-stock 35's they'd test it?

I don't want to bother being rejected and always put on small tires for the tests.

[newracer]

Yep, no problem at all. Tested my TJ on 37s last summer with no issues.

[Bob]

Just an aside compared to the above horror stories:

When I took my used '14 Grand Cherokee for its emissions test right after purchase, they waved me into the 2WD lane. I protested that it was full time 4WD, but they said don't worry.

I watched carefully and they didn't even run it on the dyno, they only connected to the OBD port. It passed and the inspection report had numbers for the gases, so apparently the car itself measures them? (I didn't ask - don't poke the hornet nest).

[redneck23ms]

Mike does your factory filler neck have a vent hose? If so did you use it or just cap it off?

[Mr6dwg]

This year was the first year I have been able to do the inspection with the 35" tires. We did it in Longmont, by the Vance Brand airport.

[fredrok]

Installed CARB certf'd FI on my 85' CJ7, had the sticker, legit and all. Golden facility refused to test it and tried to have me contact someone to straighten out the FI on old Jeep issue. I drove straight to the Lakewood facility, they inspected, never asked a single question and it passed with flying colors. Didn't even have to go above idle it was so clean.

So try a different facility if you have BS issues. It IS all about the money. My old carb setup would never have run as clean as the fuel injection. If it REALLY was about the environment, they'd be offering rebates for people to swap in newer platforms or convert to FI. But we all know the gubment ain't gonna do something THAT stupid.

[newracer]

Mike does your factory filler neck have a vent hose? If so did you use it or just cap it off?

It does have a vent hose and it is still connected.
I believe the vent and return line are the ones with the red fittings.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc129/newracer/Jeep/8dcc4084.jpg (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/newracer/media/Jeep/8dcc4084.jpg.html)

[Patrolman]

I watched carefully and they didn't even run it on the dyno, they only connected to the OBD port. It passed and the inspection report had numbers for the gases, so apparently the car itself measures them? (I didn't ask - don't poke the hornet nest).

The OBD stores codes and also stores how long it has been since the codes were reset, so the car can basically scan itself via O2 sensors. On newer cars they just run the ODB II scan test. Unsure if that will be a permanent thing or if it will only be for cars under a certain age. Also will see if VW jacked this up for everyone else in their cheating scandal.

[redneck23ms]

The technician/inspectors suggestion was to install the stock tank , filler and cap. But that can't happen due to the rear stretch. I asked if I install a stock filler and cap if the would work. And he said it should pass then so that is the route I will take. Now I just have to find a filler neck that will take 1.75" hose. As the stock yj one is much smaller and I no longer have the stock hose. Going to have to visit some junkyards.

[dieseldoc]

Alex,you may have to build a reduced to make things fit.

More regulatory BS!

[96EXXLTinCO]

This place has been an extremely sore subject for me since they came here, and I've never had an issue with passing. When me and my ex-wife were looking to buy a house I only had 4 stipulations on it. Ranch style, minimum 2 car garage, central air, and in Weld County because emissions testing just burns my ass. We found a place out in Milliken. I was working in Superior driving my 01 Eclipse Spyder GT. As an apartment maintenance tech, we would have to go in by 530 am anytime it snowed more than an inch. Long story short, I found a 88 Ford F-250 supercab longbed, 460 c.i., lifted on 35's that I would use whenever I needed to haul something, and on those snowy mornings when I had to head down the highway, usually before plows have done much. Plus the roads in our huge apartment complex were never plowed before we got in (my ecplipse's bumper acted as a plow more than once). Bought this truck from a kid in Wyoming and he told me some of the emissions B.S. was taken off. I said I dont care, I live in Weld County. 2 mos later some parts of Weld County started emissions testing including Milliken. I had to sell the truck before ever even getting tags. All my life there's no testing in Weld, until I buy a truck that won't pass.

I also was a lot tech at a used car dealer in Longmont just after high school and one of my duties was to run all the cars they got in out to get tested. Had this one p.o.s. dodge caravan come in, took it out to get tested, failed. Took it back to the dealer and told the owner what happened. He looked at the report and tells me "go back out there but run the dog s**t out of it on the way out there, get it as hot as you can". It passed. They whole system is such a joke. As others here have said it's about money, and this guy got himself posittioned with a few states to be the sole tester. I wonder how much different things would be if there was competing testers here. The one and only thing I will say in their favor, and I mean the ONLY thing I will give them kudos for, and maybe they don't even deserve the kudos IDK, is that it cost $25 to get tested in the mid 90's when I was working at that dealer, and has not increased like everything else has. Plus I only have to get tested every other year on both my vehicles now. All this just motivates me even more to live in the hills where this circus has no bearing on what I do to my car.

[newracer]

When I first started driving independent shops could do the testing, like diesels are today.

[Spieg]

I think there are grant programs and other federal funding type shenanigans going on that supplement the $25 fee there.
Which is why I say it's not about the money... it's not profitable on it's own. And the government incentives are not geared toward helping the environment so much as they are toward providing jobs to a group of people that would otherwise be lucky to be flipping hamburgers for a living.

[Patrolman]

the ONLY thing I will give them kudos for, and maybe they don't even deserve the kudos IDK, is that it cost $25 to get tested in the mid 90's when I was working at that dealer, and has not increased like everything else has.

Actually in the 90's it was $24.25 if I remember right. It was just shy of $25 and I am sure they went through loads of quarters each day. About 5 years ago it "jumped" to the $25 even.

[The StRanger]

Which is why I say it's not about the money... it's not profitable on it's own. And the government incentives are not geared toward helping the environment so much as they are toward providing jobs to a group of people that would otherwise be lucky to be flipping hamburgers for a living.

Its true.

[96EXXLTinCO]

Actually in the 90's it was $24.25 if I remember right. It was just shy of $25 and I am sure they went through loads of quarters each day. About 5 years ago it "jumped" to the $25 even.

Now that I see "$24.25" in print, I think you are correct Jeff. Still, I won't complain about a .75 increase over 20 or so years.

[dieseldoc]

It's still a mess of crap.
We are being forced to do a test that really is not doing a dam thing.
I see cars burnning oil and smoking more than a turned up diesel and they are still on the road with current tags!

Don't get me started on the diesel side of things.

In all its about supporting big oil.
As all the emissions junk is chocking the engine thus killing its over all performance thus forcing the engine to burn more fuel to accomplish the same amount of work as a non emissions laden engine.

[Chris]

The same type program existed in Minneapolis when I lived there but monitoring air quality showed no improvement. Last I heard they were stopping the program. Not sure if that happened or not but it sure would have been nice to see it. If I wasn't so lazy I'd check.

[dieseldoc]

we have seen so improvement in the brown cloud here.
but as the air quality testing has showed recently we still have some crap air here.
so I would have to say it should go away.

on top of the fact that I see more cars that a unsafe for road use!
I say go back to the old safety standards. and work on a new testing program that actually works!
but ya know that would make to much sense!

[Bob]

It seems to me that the inspections have reached a point of diminishing returns. Almost all cars run very cleanly today thanks to modern closed loop engine controls and other improvements. Even late 1990s cars with hundreds of thousands of miles still have low emissions.

Sure there are a few smoky old beaters around (and some scofflaws) but there always will be regardless of any inspection program. And I think those rapidly leave the fleet as they breakdown for good.

It doesn't make sense to me to put every vehicle through a process that makes a difference on only some very small percentage of them.

I would like to see statistics on what percentage of vehicles tested have bona fide emissions failures, and not just an unrelated check engine light or the wrong engine sticker or some other minor issue.

[Patrolman]

This is a Denver Post report and is GREAT since I am a data geek! Note it is an older report, but was updated just a month ago with additional info:

http://www.denverpost.com/2011/04/14/state-over-reports-failed-vehicle-emissions-tests/

It shows that 6% fail, but does not state why. It could have been an example of my truck where several people huddled around it to fail it because the engine didn't have the emissions equipment the hood sticker showed (different color hood from a V6 truck on a 4 cylinder truck). My truck passed the sniff test, but still "failed". Also, the 6% fail rate is counting vehicles that fail twice. It is counting the number of failed TESTS, and NOT the number of failed vehicles. Ultimately I bet 3% or less of vehicles fail, and if you take out technicalities, I would estimate 2% or less, maybe closer to 1%.

"Since the mandatory test program went into effect in 1995, new-car technology — not catching dirty cars — has been responsible for the greatest reduction in pollution, an auditor hired by the state found."

[redneck23ms]

fingers to air care. i added a filler neck with a normal gas cap and went back today for the retest and passed.

[newracer]

Now take it off and put the other one back on.

[redneck23ms]

its actually easier to fill with the current one on there so i'll leave it for now.

[redneck23ms]

added this off of a mid 90s ford with a utility box.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l539/redneck23ms1/IMG_09061_zpsu30uqe2i.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/redneck23ms1/media/IMG_09061_zpsu30uqe2i.jpg.html)
and then got this monday.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l539/redneck23ms1/IMG_09051_zpsmrkkz7wo.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/redneck23ms1/media/IMG_09051_zpsmrkkz7wo.jpg.html)

[Patrolman]

Congrats! Glad that it worked well for you. Cheap pass.

[redneck23ms]

yeah. i went to a junkyard in town and they wanted $45 for a filler neck if i pulled it. and i would have had to modify it to work. got that one for $5 but had to drive to greeley to the u-pull-it yard

[dieseldoc]

Nice fix Alex! Big finger at Air care!

[Patrolman]

The 4Runner was due for its test to renew the plates. Stopped at the station just off Federal and Oxford in Sheridan this afternoon. They wouldn't test it because it had no doors on it. They said it was a safety issue. I mentioned they fact that they are not doing safety inspections, but only emissions. They still refused to test it. What a bunch of jackasses.

Took it to the station off Evans near Santa Fe in South Denver. Didn't mention anything about the doors there. They tested it no problem and it even passed on the Fast Pass.

[newracer]

I have heard of them claiming safety issues before. I took my TJ to the station up here without doors or a top, no issues.

[xaza]

The 4Runner was due for its test to renew the plates. Stopped at the station just off Federal and Oxford in Sheridan this afternoon. They wouldn't test it because it had no doors on it. They said it was a safety issue. I mentioned they fact that they are not doing safety inspections, but only emissions. They still refused to test it. What a bunch of jackasses.

Took it to the station off Evans near Santa Fe in South Denver. Didn't mention anything about the doors there. They tested it no problem and it even passed on the Fast Pass.

I had issue with the one off Federal too. My lock actuators were acting up so the power locks would not unlock after the alarm locks them at engine start. I had to fidget with the door to get out and let them know to start the truck with the door open and the locks would not lock but they claimed it was a safety issue and tried to not test. I demanded the manager and showed him my truck starting and the doors opening and closing before he told them to do the test. They can't do 35" tires at that location so I use the one off Evans anyway.