Trail Damage now a membership site?

[Brian]

The site still has basic info, but it seems like some content is now reserved for paying subscribers.

[Chris]

Looks like it's been redone for mobile devices as well. My guess is Monica wants to recoup some of time she puts into the site by making some cash along the way. Can't blame her but I won't pay for access of what's often outdated info.

[The StRanger]

Just seen this. Kinda sux though

[jayson44]

yeah, when you can go get better and more updated info from trailsoffroad.com including videos of the trails.

J.

[cornpone99]

wow they always had some pretty old data before, but I loved their interactive maps and used their ratings guide

[RockyMtRebel]

Bummer

[dieseldoc]

Not an issue for me, they areyears an years out dated.
The Saxon mtn post is 7 years out dated.

As for The pay to play now hmmm not from me.
Get it all up to date and I might

[Java]

I joined and the site is AWESOME. They didn't remodel, they scraped, and the whole thing is different. I haven't seen all of it yet, but so far the mapping software is different, the pages have more detail, more info and are more attractive and logical. They also tell you when the trail was last updated, which a lot of people were critical of according to the FAQ page. They have a whole video section and a forum too that I havent visited yet, but its exciting to see the changes and there are plenty. Home run, IMO. :thumb:

[Heather]

I paid only because I've been using them for years, and figure it doesn't hurt to contribute something. I would always print their info, and use it in conjunction with the Wells books.

Trailsoffroad is really on point, though! They built good content fast - didn't they start in just the last few years? I signed up when I thought they first started (?), and haven't paid attention to it since. Very cool site.

[Tom]

I joined and did not get a confirmation email. Emailed address for support in the paypal email, eg where the payment goes, bounces. Guess I have been shafted.

[Java]

trailsoffroad is cool, I was a writer there for a little over a year but my work / freetime balance changed last year and I had to quit. Theyre different approaches, trailsoffroad is a business and traildamage is a club site. No reason to choose one or the other, both are useful. :thumb:

[Tom]

Watch out if you buy a subscription and use a tablet. You have to answer a math question besides uid and pass and captcha. And the colors on a tablet make the math question invisible.

The site is really ****** up.

[Chris]

Watch out if you buy a subscription and use a tablet. You have to answer a math question besides uid and pass and captcha. And the colors on a tablet make the math question invisible.

The site is really ****** up.

Fixed it for you Tom, damn autocorrect!

[Tom]

And they got the issue solved. As a reward for helping I got an extra free year subscription.

[dscowell]

It's a dollar for a year that's not at all bad for all the info you get. Honestly we were pretty spoiled getting it for free for such a long time.

[jayson44]

I heard it's going up to $15/year after your first year...

J.

[TNTJ05]

I paid the $1. If they keep it like that, sure, I'll contribute. If they go up to $15 or more, I'll find my information elsewhere.

[dieseldoc]

X2 on that. I will contribute a $1, maybe push as high as $5. But it had better get up to date.

[Chris]

Sign up now through June 16th for only $1 for the first year.After that, it's $15 USD per year.

It looks like going up to $15 is the plan. I don't pay for website access anywhere. The $1 first year is like sites giving you a month free than automatically billing monthly after that if you don't cancel. No thanks.

[Java]

IMO I think there has been a lot of complaining about traildamage and they're not catering to it, instead they're just thinning the herd. I bet the change cuts site traffic by 80-90%, which is exactly how not to make money on a website, and new membership fees are always a way to lose people. The part I think they're going for is to " cut down on the number of unhappy visitors."

From the FAQ page:

Where has the trail information gone?
The site has turned from a clunky, outdated, and overwhelming collection of information to a photoblog. That lets us focus on sharing our trips with the world rather than focusing on trail information for the majority of our visitors. The site is more fun and interesting, with new content added all the time.

The primary complaint we've received over the years is about outdated information. The site is really about the club and our adventures, but it really did look like a reference website to most of our visitors. It was confusing, and by removing the confusing portions for the majority of users it should cut down on the number of unhappy visitors. Reports will always have dates, and it is pretty clear that they are "snapshots" of the trail as it was when we were there. A photoblog just makes more sense for information we share with the world at large.

If you'd like to keep up with old and new trail information, simply subscribe (https://traildamage.com/membership/) and you'll get that and more. It makes the site a lot larger, with more information, so it's not always what our visitors are looking for. This subscription allows you to use the site as club members do, but understand that a lot of the trail information is outdated simply because we don't visit all 500 trails every year.

If you do not need trail information and you're looking for photos and reports, then you do not need to subscribe for additional features.

[Chris]

Sounds more like they're going back to their roots which was pretty much like most 4x4 sites. Post info about a run and not try to be a resource as they ended up. This way they don't have to listen to people complain either. :thumb:

[TJS86TOY]

Also, just a guess, A LOT of Colorado based 4x4 sites link to traildamage which uses a lot of bandwidth. The complaining thing I understand. For myself, I choose not to pay for info regarding trails. I ran trails in the 80's just fine without the internet :D

[ExplorerTom]

. I ran trails in the 80's just fine without the internet :D

while I wasn't 4wheeling in the 80s, I know people that did. They'd show up at a trailhead with their big 31" tires to a trail, run it, or as far as they could and turned if they couldn't.

Where's everyone's sense of adventure?

my beef with TD is that after that fire down around north CoSprings a few years ago (Black Forest?!?!?) I was 4wheeling around Schubarth Trail that was closed. I emailed Monica with the info and she never updated the trail info. Guess I wasn't part of the elite few who were invited to be a member and therefore my info was no good.

[newracer]

For me I mostly just used the site to see what trails are close to each other.

[TJS86TOY]

They'd show up at a trailhead with their big 31" tires to a trail, run it, or as far as they could and turned if they couldn't.I remember those days! :thumb: Each to their own i suppose. I got hooked on 4x4'ing in a different generation where it didn't matter what make/model you drove, It was ALL called jeeping. Not to go too far off track here but, I think offroading developed in to many "classes" of rigs built for specific terrain. Many groups now are vehicle specific, specific tire size, specific whatever. This is why this site is so darn good, many mixes of people and rigs.

Back to TD, Monica decided to monetize the site and more power to her. Just my opinion but I also thought there was a bit of elitism going on there but in the same token, respect the need to limit the trails runs to a few rigs. Imagine if all 172 inactive members went on one trail one :) , either way TD unbook marked for me and trails offroad bookmarked.

[Tom]

I ran trails in the 80's just fine without the internet :DSo did I since the 60's. Got stuck a lot more then. Not sure if that's because of sites like TD or if I was just a stupid teenager then?:lmao:

[Java]

so this leaves a void in the universe that is tough to fill; traildamage has been under development for 15 years and they've driven every trail, like 380 in CO alone. One person would need like 15 years to duplicate it.

However, there is atleast that much collective experience on this forum, and it would be pretty easy to add a map to frontrange4x4.com and a simple form to fill in trail information that would generate a standard trail page any member could create. This site could have great trail pages and everything you didn't like about traildamage you could "fix" here. Just a thought...

[Chris]

If it was really that easy it would already exist here and numerous other 4x4 sites. :erm:

I haven't used TD in a long time, I gathered .GPX files from all over the web, loaded them into my GPS and wing it from there.

[Java]

it is easy. When I wrote for trailsoffroad they used a simple form for all the information that generated a page. The GPS info you enter generated a map point, and you upload your GPS for the track. The tech part of it is simple, even old school. The hard part is putting in the time to make an interesting write up, enter accurate information and creating good pictures and videos. Trailsoffroad has redundancies built in before trails are posted, they really have it dialed in. I use a simple template now, it's not that big a deal. The time is the thing.

Anyway, I was just thinking out loud, I'm not saying you should. Someone will though, I'm guessing expeditioncolorado.net, it's pretty good already.

[Chris]

What I was saying was that it's not that easy to create the form to generate the page to suit all needs. The time to gather info and input is, like you said, the real hard part.

Personally I thought about it using 4x4colorado.com that I played with over the Winter but I lost interest as the weather warmed up. I'm done with websites, I plan to wheel instead. :thumb:

[Java]

True, the details of the form are crucial.

Just another thought, if you did it on 4x4colorado you'd create a form, create a map and become a writer with a big work load.

if you did it on frontrange4x4 you could create a form, create a map, turn the forum members loose on it and become an editor.

[Chris]

if Jim did it on frontrange4x4 he could create a form, create a map, turn the forum members loose on it and become an editor.

Fixed it for you Paul! :D

[Java]

in his sleep. :thumb:

[Brad]

TD is down this morning, I will pay for the annual but not for a monthly fee. I have used that site extensively over the years and am happy to contribute as would I be here or on other forums I frequent.

[Java]

sort of related, used 4x4 books are a steal on amazon now, I just ordered these two for about $12.00. They may or may not be worth it, the second one is from 1963 so...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0930657403/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0870040219/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Jim]

Paul previously posted:

"if Jim did it on frontrange4x4 he could create a form, create a map, turn the forum members loose on it and become an editor."

Fixed it for you Paul!

I shall regurgitate CHRIS's sage words from FR4x4's "rules" section:

A Club with No Leaders?

That's right, there are no designated leaders of Front Range 4x4. No leaders of any kind, no board of directors, no designated trail run organizers, no specific people doing specific tasks. There are forum administrators and moderators but that's about it. Want to organize a run? Do it! Want a special event? Organize it! All members are on equal footing and have the ability to do what ever they think will be enjoyed by others.

"you" (in the Kollektiv) want something "done"... do it yourself.



I think the way FunTreks books handle the situation is the easy way - sell a physical item as the way to monetize the resource.

[FINOCJ]

As soon as I get a gps/nav unit hooked up in the old cj, I will give up my hard print maps and books. Of course, gps is way down the list behind TBI, electronic ignition, lockers, power anything...yea, I'll stick with the hard copies. FWIW - I did finally re-exhange my points out for magnetic induction ignition after the rebuild.

[Tom]

As soon as I get a gps/nav unit hooked up in the old cj, I will give up my hard print maps and books. Of course, gps is way down the list behind TBI, electronic ignition, lockers, power anything...yea, I'll stick with the hard copies. FWIW - I did finally re-exhange my points out for magnetic induction ignition after the rebuild.
No cell phone? That's what I use and free avenza maps app.

[Chris]

I thought I just saw Avenza Maps cost? Did I miss something?

[Tom]

Its still free. You just can only load one map that hasn't been retrieved from there store. I get all the mvum from their store and they are free. So are usgs topos. Most everything else costs except perhaps blm.

[Chris]

Its still free. You just can only load one map that hasn't been retrieved from there store. I get all the mvum from their store and they are free. So are usgs topos. Most everything else costs except perhaps blm.

Thanks Tom, you're right and while it's not the most intuitive app it's useful. I loaded it after reading your post and downloaded a couple maps. Nice!

It hasn't changed from what I recalled in the past, I just forgot that the "store" isn't just for paid maps.

[TJS86TOY]

Site was preserved as archive here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170305...ails/index.php (https://web.archive.org/web/20170305151734/http://www.traildamage.com/trails/index.php)

Just no pics or GPS exchange files

[Java]

sort of related, used 4x4 books are a steal on amazon now, I just ordered these two for about $12.00. They may or may not be worth it, the second one is from 1963 so...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0930657403/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0870040219/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So sorry for the hijack, but these came in. The trail book sucks, I can't believe something published in 2007 doesn't have GPS or better maps. It's interesting to look at, and worth the $2.50 I paid for it, but I wouldnt recommend it.

The Ghost Town book is GREAT!! It's really old and that's part of it, the directions to Alice begin on I-60 and the photos are great. Its outdated for sure, but still... Really fun book, recommend it just for fun. :thumb:

[Chris]

I have an old Ghost Town book and used it to find a few ghost towns. The book has photos but getting to the "town" we founf nothing st all. :lmao:

[Java]

https://funtreks.com/off-road-trails/

this looks great! Should work well with the books too. :thumb:

[Java]

Is anyone renewing traildamage? It's coming up mid-may and I'm kinda on the fence, I haven't used it since it changed- at first I was pretty enthusiastic about the "upgrade" but I don't find the new version as useful as the old, haven't actually used it since it changed. The log in alone is enough to dissuade me sometimes, but then again it's pretty cheap and maybe I'll need it someday... IDK.

[Jim]

I'll say - thanks for the review. I didn't sign up in the first place. While I found the old site quite useful, I haven't missed them enough to sign-up. I did sign up for TrailsOffroad.com but only use them on a rare day. FunTreks books are getting use as well as the Avenza PDF maps on my tablet.

[FINOCJ]

I haven't missed TD at all - I do like and use TrailsOffroad.com although its not super complete. e.g. its missing Miller Rock.

[RockyMtRebel]

I’m also on the fence about renewing - there really doesn’t seem to be much new or updates on trails, most of the time it shows the last update has been 5+ years.

The stupid login (I am a Robot) procedure also is annoying, and the member exclusive thing is very weird and culty.....

I find trailsoffroad to be better and free if I remember

[Brian]

I use it sporadically, but I'm leaning to re-upping. I hate the log in all the time, but I noticed if I hit the site about every 2-3 days it remembers me.

[newracer]

The main reason I used Traildamage was to find other trails that were close to ones I already knew about. Plenty of other resources for that so I will not be a member.

[Tom]

I'll say - thanks for the review. I didn't sign up in the first place. While I found the old site quite useful, I haven't missed them enough to sign-up. I did sign up for TrailsOffroad.com but only use them on a rare day. FunTreks books are getting use as well as the Avenza PDF maps on my tablet.I signed up and got 2 free years because I pointed out numerous issues with the site. Then was sponsored so am a full member. The only thing full membership gives one is the ability to see scheduled trail runs.

While I have some issues with the site and the group one must remember the website is fully maintained by one person Monica. Oh and her full-time job is computer security thus the insanely difficult security hoops on login.

[FINOCJ]

Then was sponsored so am a full member. The only thing full membership gives one is the ability to see scheduled trail runs.

Maybe we would like it better if we were members and could actually see and join runs...:D
I understand its not a trail data base or resource for general public - its a website for its members. The last I checked, they weren't accepting new members - at least from unknown requesters.

[newracer]

Maybe we would like it better if we were members and could actually see and join runs...:D
I understand its not a trail data base or resource for general public - its a website for its members. The last I checked, they weren't accepting new members - at least from unknown requesters.

AFAIK the policy has always been you have to be invited to become a member.

[Maverick1872]

Personally, I don't find it that useful. Paid the $1 and that was it. Maybe been on it 3 times since, including today to ensure I won't be renewing. Besides content being outdated, the website in general is just slow. I'd rather build my own, offer it up for free to anyone to use, and put a few (small) ads on it to help cover costs of hosting/running.

[RockyMtRebel]

The website is very slow... and for a while after joining, I posted up trail runs and was very active (like I am here) and got very little response and none from the "members". I find the culture a little strange for sure..... even though I'm kind of a weirdo myself ;-)

That being said, Monica is always responsive and friendly and I don't have any negative things to say about her or any of the people......

[Tom]

Definitely painfully slow. I too am using trailsoffroad.com mostly. That and bushducks to see what's open.

[xaza]

Had they left the site laid out the way it was before and moved their group stuff to another site I could see paying membership costs to the resource site. Even though the info was outdated it was great for finding new trails and just getting out there. New site was terrible and I don't use it. Ran into a TD group on a trail and got the snobbish feeling from them, we have a much better group here IMO

[Max]

It's disappointing. It used to be my go-to site for trail information. I honestly haven't missed it though. I haven't even really thought about the website this whole time either. I usually visit https://www.trailsoffroad.com if I want to looks something up. Although as FINOCJ said, it's incomplete right now.

[Heather]

I paid (and if I'm on auto-renew won't mind paying again) only because I used the everloving crap out of the site from 2011 until they changed it, and I figure I owe them for it. Whenever I was going out on a run, I would print out the TD page for the trail(s) we were doing and take with. I was super bummed when that wasn't really an option any longer. Not nice and neat like it used to be, anyway. I found it more accurate with the difficultly rating, than the books. I haven't used it since paying last year, though. Trailsoffroad is great, so are the trail books, and friends' input.

[The StRanger]

Yup. I still got my black book about full of the trail damage trails I've hit.
Having been on after the went pay but if heard its went downhill.

[Heather]

Yup. I still got my black book about full of the trail damage trails I've hit.
Having been on after the went pay but if heard its went downhill.

That's a great idea. Wish I'd've kept mine.

[Java]

just logged into TD for the last time, my membership expires tomorrow so I gave it a look, hoping something would be new or updated, but... the forum is doornail-dead, there are no new runs/reports so no updates, and the upcoming events are not things that interest me, like camping at Chatfield. So for me it's not useful anymore, unfortunately. I really liked the old site, but the new one is awkward and with no new info, outdated. Bummer.

Best of luck to them anyway!! :thumb:

[JandDGreens]

I like the old format too but, I still giving it more time as I depended on it so
much in the beginning, but I am so glad I searched for a 4x4
club and found Front Range, it’s been great!

[TNTJ05]

I use the 'archived' version of the site for general trail information that I can't find on trails offroad. However, the funtreks books that I have are a great resource.

[The StRanger]

Trails took a bit to get used to but, once I got the swing of it I like it a lot better.

[TNTJ05]

The embedded youtube vids are very helpful on trailsoffroad as well.