Bren's Birfield Failure

[Brody]

Here are some shots that 4LoLo sent me of Bren's Birfield failure. Yes, Longfields do fail and I am sure that Bobby, always true to his word, will send a replacement.I carry and extra set of stock birfs even though I have Longfields on hard trails... the 'just in case set...

[Jimmy]

What's Bren running: 35s? 37s? Might be good to have that in the thread so that folks know what size tires he's running on that heavy vehicle... that way folks can put the breakage into some perspective.

The important piece would be: What was he doing when this broke? :)

[Brody]

Don't really know what he was doing, but I think, knowing Bren, that he thought that he rig was indestructible. Now he knows differently...

His tire size approximates 33 inches and they aren't big, wide mudders.

I just passed on the pictures that Bear took as he sent them to me after doing the work on Bren's rig. I will update any information as I get it for everyone's benefit. Longfiels Birfields are about as strong as Dana 60s so it takes a bunch to break them. My ex partner broke one side when he got his 80 in a bind with lockers and wouldn't get off the throttle even when we were yelling at him to back off. One tire was completely wedged between some rocks and all he needed was a strap or a hi lift to get him out. No sympathy there..

[Patrolman]

So I have never personally seen a birf break on someone. I guess I haven't wheeled hard enough with SA Yota's.

Just curious, anyone know what the comparison is to Toyota IFS parts? Wondering what the first thing to break on an IFS setup would be. Also, how does the strength compare?

[Brody]

Jeff

The first thing that breaks on an IFS Yota is the CV axle and that is usually the result of people trying to wheel them like they are solid axle rigs. This is compounded if the front is locked and the wheels turned. I have seen IFS rigs do some really hard stuff, even stock, but the drivers were experienced. I have also seen a bunch of CV axle failures on the IFS rigs. Most everyone I know who wheels IFS rigs carries spare CV stuff and knows how to fix it. With the number of SAS conversions out there, CV stuff from a yard is dirt cheap. Many of the shops have this stuff lying around and just want to get rid of it, too.

Total Chaos and other companies making the long travel IFS are using Porsch axles or T-100 axles for both their strength and additional length required for the longer travel a-arms. Hope this answered your question..

[Patrolman]

Brody,

That did answer my question. I was wondering if/ever the IFS stuff fails. I can wheel the IFS stuff pretty hard. Never had a failure yet, but thought it would likely be the CV. I have some spares so will carry one. Guess I should carry the large socket too so I can get the CV out! Luckily I have worked on them before and they are matched side to side. I picked up a complete front end from a guy doing a SAS. Stuff has little to no value really. Already used several of the parts!

I know that Total Chaos makes good equipment, but it is really for high speed applications. Works well in the dirt too if you want to stay IFS. Only downfall is the cost. I think I could pay someone to do a SAS and put in Longfields for the price of the parts for the Total Chaos kit. I didn't know the T-100 and Porsche axles would actually fit. I do have a set of Supra axle shafts that are splined the same and have the same bolt pattern. They are longer though but might see if I can work out a way to fit them in.

Almost forgot to mention, and this might be helpful to anyone running IFS on any rig, You could pull the shaft itself apart. Really pretty easy to do. Take off the rubber boot and pull the clip that holds the bearings in place. Messy job. That will keep the 1/2 of the CV that goes through the hub in place. If you have a front locker you could run 3wd still. The CV doesn't have to be intact and functional to drive. Obviously can't drag along, that is all.

[Brody]

I think that Camberg uses the Porsche axles, Trail Gear(?) uses a custom axle, Rockstomper uses a Porsche, and Total Chaos uses the T-100. It all has to do with the length (and strength) when you use the longer travel a-arms. Someone else is doing this , too, but I forget who, and they are also using the T-100 axle shafts...

Thanks for the tip on the CV fix, too. I have seen it done from a distance, but never done it.

I gave away all my IFS stuff when I did my SAS. It isn't worth much to anyone which is nice for people still running IFS. You can get spare parts for just getting it out of someone's way!
ORS and Addicted probably has stuff that they want removed...

[Patrolman]

Yep, cheap IFS parts are nice to have! They definately don't have any value.

Will have to look into the other IFS mods from other companies. There might be something out there that fits my needs!

Sorry about the thread hijack!

[Patrolman]

My understanding was the stock birfs were the same for the minis and the FJ's.

Do I stand corrected?!?

[Patrolman]

I haven't had a SA Yota, so not really up to par on what the parts are. Still gung-ho about the IFS as it hasn't failed me yet!

So we saw a NICELY built red 80 series at Belleview and Santa Fe this afternoon. Wife said she would definately drive one of those! Made me happy!

[isotel]

Now that is just crazy that he broke a Long on 33's :(

Was this a 30 spline??

i think Bobby must have gotten a bad batch of Cages because they are all breaking right there.. From what ive heard, they still work just fine, but they click and make noise the rest of the trail, and thats way better than a shattered Bell! :)

[Brody]

I sent Bear an e-mail to post all the info that he had as he was the one what done the dirty work. Hopefully he will post it so that us inquiring minds know what went wrong. And maybe he will post Bobby Longfield's reply, too.

Hey Bear....where are ya??

[4LoLo]

Sorry folks - been too busy watching celebrity gossip, have you heard the latest on Britney? OMG! :princess: -EH, not-so much.

Pete, thanks for posting the pics. As mentioned... this was a cage failure.


Yes, the 80 series is stronger than the minis. It is reasonably rated for 35" tires on the 3 ton 80 for pretty serious use.

Really no reason to upgrade unless you have a very heavy right foot or are really getting out of the box with the 80, i.e. getting into body damage mandatory stuff and trying to turn a fullsize into a buggy level crawler.

Sorry - I just don't know that I agree with this. I was there when the failure Pete mentioned happened. At that time that front axle was stock. That failure happened on Carnage Boulder. The guy upgraded to Longs after that stock failure. If I had not seen that failure happen personally, I wouldn't have said anything.

Now... for Bren's failure. This was a strange failure and unfortunately, not enough is known about this.

Background - This Longfield came with Bren's FZJ80 in with some extra parts. The guy he bought it from told him that he had taken it in to have the Longs installed and "the mechanic only did one for some reason". Seems to me I would have at least gotten a pretty good reason why I am paying a bill for half-completed work. :confused:

I did not do this install. Bren told me he had this new long waiting to go in. I was going to install it right before they went to Moab, but I had a back spasm and had to cancel. He started hearing more clicking when we were wheeling a couple weeks ago. I told Bren we'd install the new Long in a week or two when my schedule was a little less hectic. He got antsy and took it to a shop. I never actually saw the thing until it was in pieces. The tech that put it in said it was "tight". :rolleyes:

The failure happened while in town. He never had a chance to do any wheeling on it and hadn't even put the thing in 4 low. He had maybe 40 miles of in-town driving on it when it let go taking a turn from a stop. Looking at the long it's pretty obvious is has very low miles. Bearly even any wear marks on it (well other that the whole being 'sploded part :o ).

My best guess is there was something wrong with the cage right off the shelf. Sadly, we'll never know since anyone that saw it before-hand is either not talking, or didn't know jack about the damned thing to begin with. Sure wish I would have seen this thing prior to install.

[Brody]

Thanks Bear for clearing the air a little!

[4LoLo]

NAY ... Gotcha thanks for the info. It's really surprising to me that people are getting such low miles out of longs in an 80. Now knowing this, if I were running an 80 I'd be running and carrying stockers until I got tired of breakage (which I would expect to be very little). I will not suggest he go back to stock over this but that's his call. I didn't see any reason to be in a hurry to swap this one out to begin with, even with a little clicking.

On minis, I don't think anyone would argue the Longs. Love my superset! :cool: