stuck screw extraction nightmare

[open_circuit]

I set out today to install some Quadratec mirrors (https://www.quadratec.com/products/13111_0410_14.htm) so I could have some side mirrors while rolling without doors.

The mirror brackets installation requires removal of 4 T-40 screws from the Jeep (which obviously have never been removed since manufacture in ~2005). Three of these were relatively easily removed, but the fourth stripped beyond utility. I've spent the afternoon trying to extract this screw quite unsuccessfully. The screw head is counter-sunk, and I am unable to cut a slot into it that is deep enough to be useful. I tried two types of extraction bits while attempting to drill out the screw shaft, and neither worked. I've given up for today as the second extractor bit broke off in the hole I drilled out of the shaft of the screw. Now that I have a hardened extractor bit in the center of my screw / hole, I do not have any idea how to safely remove this mess.

I need to get this screw out somehow. I no longer have any viable plan for how to get it out. Any ideas?

[Brian]

Is there a chance you can get to it from behind the door panel? Maybe get a vise grip on it and twist it out that way?

[Patrolman]

Any pics?

[Java]

I had a similar problem here http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?24147-Jeep-Clutch-Sound/page4

a dremel with carbide bits did it for me. I have a dremel 200 you can borrow.

[open_circuit]

I guess I'll go take a picture. It's hideous and embarrassing now. =\

Edit, here it is
http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47265&d=1526266353

[Hypoid]

I used a Dremel with a carbide burr to gouge a broken extractor from a cylinder head. It was slow, tedious work, but resulted in a hole that could be cleaned up with no additional work.

Depending on how much material is left in the hole, it may be feasible to weld another fastener to the stuck one, and turn both out.

In any case, utilize eye protection!

[Jim]

I did the same danged thing about 5 days ago. The pulley attachment bolt for the york A/C compressor. Into the end of the compressor's crankshaft (a piece I didn't wish to trash).

I'll +1 what others have said - dremel. High speed, little pressure. Thin bit. I used two or three bits and it took an hour. I used the bits that came in the dremel multi-bit box - I don't know if they were special or not - they were the size and I was getting moving (stores closed - late night garage grunge project). Patience and you'll get there. PITA none the less.

+1 on Mike's eye protection as you will likely fully consume a dremel bit or two and at the end pieces will likely fly.

The resultant hole was the "next size up" in extractor size which was successful - though with caution.

[open_circuit]

Depending on how much material is left in the hole, it may be feasible to weld another fastener to the stuck one, and turn both out.

That may be an option. I do not have the tools, skill, or experience to attempt this, though.

[Jim]

Thx for the pic.

You might try using a chisel, on an angle, to try and bite into the head to try to turn the bolt out of the fastener. Worst case is you'll munge the remaining head.

Or a 1" or 1.5" dremel cutting wheel to try to cut a more hefty slot into the head to try a slotted (standard) screw driver to try to turn the bolt out.

[open_circuit]

You might try using a chisel, on an angle, to try and bite into the head to try to turn the bolt out of the fastener. Worst case is you'll munge the remaining head.

On an angle meaning try to turn the screw by tapping the chisel? Or do you mean to just tap the chisel to set it into the screw head and then turn it by hand? Either way, I need to acquire a chisel to try this.

[open_circuit]

Is there a chance you can get to it from behind the door panel? Maybe get a vise grip on it and twist it out that way?

Good thought, and I have no idea if this is possible where the screw is located. It is adjacent to the upper hinge for the driver side door. Any idea how I might access this from inside the Jeep?

[Jim]

Chisel on an angle for a CCW rotation of the bolt. Hammer whack onto chisel to induce the turn.

Method 2 in this page:
https://eztoolhub.com/6-tips-removing-a-broken-bolt-or-screw/

If the bolt doesn't turn, then yes, possibly use the chisel to create a slot for a slotted screwdriver to use. I'd think you'd not do a single chisel straight into the head as the outer edges of the chisel end might contact the body metal too soon. You might need to cut one half of the slot, using the chisel on an angle - somewhat mimicking the angle of the hole's taper.

You could drive it to a welder to weld on a nut - but this is finish paint and you don't wish to munge the paint.

[Brian]

Good thought, and I have no idea if this is possible where the screw is located. It is adjacent to the upper hinge for the driver side door. Any idea how I might access this from inside the Jeep?

I've never removed the door panels before so I'm not 100% sure what's accessible behind them. I just thought since the mirrors screw into the doors, there might be a chance of removing the door panel and gaining access to the screw from behind.

[Jim]

I've never removed the door panels before so I'm not 100% sure what's accessible behind them.

Hit his Quadratec link - it's the windshield pillar - moving from the door to the body.

[Jim]

That may be an option. I do not have the tools, skill, or experience to attempt this, though.

If you wish to drive up here - I likely have much of the tools aside from a welder.

[open_circuit]

If you wish to drive up here - I likely have much of the tools aside from a welder.

I'll think about it tomorrow and make a plan for later in the week. Won't have time until Tuesday to tackle this again. I do have a Dremel, just need to come up with some carbide bits to remove the broken extractor shaft. However, the chisel might work and would eliminate the need to deal with the broken bit.

[Jim]

If you're looking for a chisel (and have a bit of time and wish to save some cost) - pawn shops might have a jumble box of tools (for a buck). Dremel bits should be easy to source.

PM if you wish to stop up. I have a Dremel, chisels, hammer, air impact chisel.

Another tip for a stuck fastener - impact. You could use a round chisel, into the core of the bolt with one hefty whack with a hammer. Goal is to try to break / upset the bond on the threads between the bolt and nut.

If you can get behind the fastener (via a hole of one of the other removed bolts????) try to spray some stuck fastener penetrant.

g'luck! (you'll get it done - Class is in session - Life 101 isn't always a fun class - but you will learn some good skills).

[Spieg]

Jeep has had an affinity for Torx head fasteners for many years. I've fought with them a lot in the past...

Too late at this point but for future reference; I've found the best approach includes liberal use of penetrating oil several days before you pickup a wrench. If the surface is painted over, you may need to cut around the edge to allow the oil to pass though to the threads. After a good soaking, I use an impact driver (the shock of the hammer helps loosen stubborn threads).
http://home.btconnect.com/ezbuy/images/products/hilka-impact-driver-11670013-1.jpg
Given where things stand now, you may be able to drill our the extractor with a carbide bit. Or I think the best bet would be to take it to someone with a welder and have them weld a nut to the head (or whats left of it), then use a socket to break it loose. Using heat is also a good way to break loose a stuck fastener but you don't want to mess up your paint if you can avoid it.

[Patrolman]

As a worst case scenario, you could drill 4 smaller holes around the head of the screw. Basically just to get the extractor out. Once it is out, drill out the rest of the head so you can remove the bracket. Then you can hopefully apply good penetrant and hopefully remove the rest of the screw by grabbing what remains with some vise grips.

[dieseldoc]

Something not tough any more, WAKE THE BOLT UP.....this is old school tricks here. when said bolt has not moved in years it is wise to WAKE it up, this is done with punch and mallet. One maybe to good strikes and it should let loose the paint, and what not for the factory install. Your not after deforming the bolt just get some shock init to loosen things up.

I never believed in this. Tell I had an odd sized Trox head bolt in a Porsche Cam shaft, this is what the Factory maintenance book said to do....worked like a charm!

[open_circuit]

Something not tough any more, WAKE THE BOLT UP

I did try this before turning the screw. Gave each one several solid raps. Obviously didn't do enough for this screw, but I was concerned about hitting too hard next to my window and windshield. Also, Chrysler made this extra challenging by putting blue Loc-Tite on the threads of these screws. I'm having to fight the thread locker and 12 years of potential rust / galvanic corrosion / etc. What a pain in the butt.

[FINOCJ]

it is out, drill out the rest of the head so you can remove the bracket. Then you can hopefully apply good penetrant and hopefully remove the rest of the screw by grabbing what remains with some vise grips.

I am with Jeff here: do what it takes to get the extractor bit out - I would probably go the dremel grinding route. You could even grind the entire head off (I first bought my dremel 20+ yrs ago needing to grind the head of a CJ7 steering box bolt that was stuck and I trashed) - then the bracket should come off and you can work with what is left. Hopefully a decent amount of thread will be sticking out that can be worked with more easily - either vice grips, welding a nut to it, etc. I would also then try to head up the threads - it helps loosen the loc-tite. There is also a product called 'freeze off' (or something like that - comes in a blue spray can). It helps shock the item and loosens it up. Plus then any light scuffing or damage to the surface would be hidden under the bracket when its put back on.

I have fought a number of stuck bolts and twisted off heads, rounded out screw heads etc - usually comes with the territory on rusty old jeeps. Someone once told me it was 'character building' (not that I believe that). For future reference, as Brian mentioned above - especially for screw heads (allen, torx, phillips etc) - an manual impact screwdriver goes a long way and helps avoid the situation entirely, especially if you put some pre-treatment penetrating oil, shock, heat, freeze off etc on it first. I've got a rounded out, recessed allen head drain plug on the front diff of the tacoma - its probably never coming out - l just change the fluid now by pumping the oil out and refilling. Good luck!

[open_circuit]

I'll try grinding the bit out as I get time this week. I'm not sure what you guys are referring to with brackets, though. The screw I'm trying to remove is on the body panel in front of my door. If I remove the remaining (munged-up) screw head, I will be left with a screw shank stuck in a countersunk hole in the body panel of the Jeep. I'll never be able to get any pliers or vice grips onto the shank, recessed as it is. I think if I remove some of the head, I will be able to force some more PB blaster into the threads, though. There is very little gap between the screw head and the countersunk bore right now, so it doesn't seem like much of the PB blaster can work into the threads.

[FINOCJ]

I'm not sure what you guys are referring to with brackets, though. The screw I'm trying to remove is on the body panel

ok - was wondering if I didn't quite understand. that is going to make it more difficult. Think I would go the grind it out route still - probably have to grind the whole damn thing out. You might have to then drill and re-tap the threads a size or two larger and put in a heli-coil. Simple project that goes FUBAR - gotta be a jeep thing!

[open_circuit]

I also noticed on some of the JKs in the parking lot here at work the last few mornings that Jeep went away from countersunk screws for these locations on at least some JK models. The ones I saw outside have pan-head screws that sit above the body instead of countersunk below the body panel. Would be very nice to have that on the LJ so I could at least cut a proper slot into the head. *Sigh*

[dieseldoc]

Yup they change to full pan heads after 2012.

[open_circuit]

ok - was wondering if I didn't quite understand. that is going to make it more difficult.

Upon closer inspection, I may be able to remove that body panel piece after grinding away the screw head. There are 4 screws total on that body panel piece. Two screws are in front of the Jeep under the windshield, and two are on the side in front of the door. The body panel piece appears to be a small lower retaining section that is attached to the windshield hinge and the door hinge.

In other words, if I can get the two front screws out without any excitement, I might be able to remove the door, grind the head off the munged up screw, then tilt the panel up out of the way (hinged on the bottom of windshield) to get access to the bolt stub.

I think I'll keep that as a last-ditch plan, since it still requires me to remove two more screws that I never wanted to touch, and could mess up as well.

[Java]

I'd pick up a bit like this from Home Depot or Lowes etc: https://www.dremel.com/en_US/products/-/show-product/tools/9901-tungsten-carbide-cutter

and put it into the slots you already cut in the head on about the same angle as the bottom of the head and cut down to the bracket, then cut / break the rest of the bolt head off. If you've never used one of those bits before its surprising how easily they chew up bolts and surrounding metal. Even if you damage the hole in the bracket you can replace the bolt with a hex head / washer to compensate.

[Hypoid]

Put a piece of tape on the paint surrounding the bolt head. If the burr gets away from you, you'll have some protection, which is better than none.

[open_circuit]

Put a piece of tape on the paint surrounding the bolt head. If the burr gets away from you, you'll have some protection, which is better than none.

I guess we think alike. I put a few layers of masking tape over the hole and covered several inches all around it. I punched out the work area, and now have at least some semblance of protection for the rest of the paint.

I made a little progress on the broken off bit tonight. The bit I bought would work a lot better if I didn't have to use it as an end-mill.

[Jim]

The bit I bought would work a lot better if I didn't have to use it as an end-mill.

`don't know what type of bit you have, but I used generic things like this that came in my kit:

https://www.dremel.com/productimages/x84922lg.jpg.pagespeed.ic.uo5-PvvABx.jpg
https://www.dremel.com/en_US/products/-/show-product/accessories/84922-3-16-silicon-carbide-grinding-stones

[open_circuit]

I bought one like Paul linked. Will probably get one of those grinding stones too.

The bit I bought does have a rounded head with some shallow teeth, but it doesn't work very well on the tip.

[open_circuit]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I finally extracted the screw this morning. I spent probably 10 hours this week on this stupid screw, as well as more money on extraction tools than on the original mirror kit. It's a Jeep thing?

Anyway, I was able to remove most of the hardened steel extraction bit that was broken off in the screw shank with a combination of three different Dremel bits. This is what took most of the time. I used a grinding stone conical bit, a cylindrical chainsaw sharpening bit, and a silicon-carbide grinding bit to chip away at the hardened steel.
http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47321&d=1526838748

I only succeeded in removing the screw after I (finally) picked up a torch and brought some heat to the project. The screw wouldn't turn with an extraction bit, even after heating it up for a while, but I was able to snap the head off with my center-punch and a flat-head bit used like a chisel while the screw was hot. This proved to be the key to getting the shank out. With the head gone, I was able to use the speed-out bits that I bought last Sunday. These didn't work last week, but without the screw head stuck to the body and some heat to loosen the shank, the troublesome pieces came out in about 60 seconds after I popped the head off the screw.

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47319&d=1526838748
http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47318&d=1526838748

And here it is, all finished. I don't know why my grey front seat covers look a little purple in this photo.
http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47320&d=1526838748

I'm going to get a beer this afternoon and enjoy not cursing at this screw for a while.

[Jim]

Life 101 - Graduation Day.

Good times.

Enjoy the no door world

Thx for the wrap-up!

[cnstaco]

Trent 1 Screw 0. I might go do an easy trail in the same area next Sunday if your interested.

[open_circuit]

Trent 1 Screw 0. I might go do an easy trail in the same area next Sunday if your interested.

Definitely interested in getting out next weekend. Looking for some sun and warm temps to keep the doors off. This weekend was not very good for that.

[dieseldoc]

glad it came out. seems it was the pan of said bolt that was the issue.

enjoy the wide open no doors world.

[FINOCJ]

Awesome! You earned it.

[Java]

:thumb: Well done!

[GPP33]

I appreciate your determination but next time just weld a nut to it and it'll spin right out. The heat will cause the bolt to expand breaking the bond under the head and removing the tension that the bolt is under. Assuming the threads are free of dirt/mud it'll spin right out. The larger size nut also gives you plenty of purchase so you don't strip it. I have some easy outs but cant remember the last time I used them, bolt won't budge, out comes the welder.

[dieseldoc]

Except this is a painted body panel. The heat will distroy the paint around the area.

[GPP33]

Except this is a painted body panel. The heat will distroy the paint around the area.

I’d be willing to bet (mostly because it’s not my Jeep) that the paint on the bracket would have been fine. Worst case it may have needed a little touch up paint but that sounds better than 10 hours of fussing with it.