Moab! (11/17 - 11/21) Planned Run Thread

[Tom]

Since its officially scheduled I thought we needed a Planned Run thread.

Just a thought when doing Fins and Things we could take a 1/2 hour or so and run Little Baby Lions Back.
Its a kind of fun intro to slick rock wheeling and just a bit on the Moab side of Fins and Things trailhead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B30xUvrmU5A

[Tom]

First question. What happened to Hell's Revenge? I am easy. Just wondering.

[Tom]

Probably would be good to share phone numbers in case someone has any issues getting to meeting locations each morning. I will pm mine to you guys.

[open_circuit]

Hell's Revenge -- James wanted to run that, and we had it on the list when he was considering joining the week long trip. I am not especially interested in running it with my wife and kids.

[Getaklu]

A lot of the major obstacles (hot tubs, Hells gate, escalator) are optional I believe. There are still some worthy points of the trail. Are you looking at more in the level of Fins? There are many in that rating category or lower to choose from. I've not been there so am open to the general experience in reality.

[FINOCJ]

We bypassed the 3 big obstacles (or lets say obstacles with consequence) when we ran it a couple weeks ago: Hells Gate, Escalator (where the CanAm rolled on its side - can we say that is why we skipped it, the atv was blocking the trail?) and Tip Over Challenge (Jim will appreciate my internal chuckle here). The rest of it seemed quite easy - in some ways easier than Fins as the transitions on and off the rock slabs were less of a concern. If you run Fins and like it then you won't have any issue with Hells using the 3 bypasses (which are all well marked). In some ways the scariest part of Hells is the entrance fin - gets your attention right off the paved parking lot. In terms of vehicle abuse - TOTW was tougher on the jeep and will put the skid protection and bumpers to use. I think Miller Rock is a great warm-up for Moab - the entrance climb up the rock slabs, the rock steps going up to the high point at Miller Rock, and of course the rock obstacle down by the creek - are all in the solid moderate to easy difficult category that is like Fins and TOTW.

[Tom]

Hell's Revenge -- James wanted to run that, and we had it on the list when he was considering joining the week long trip. I am not especially interested in running it with my wife and kids.Not a problem at all. Just inquiring. You planned the trip, you get first choice as to trails. Particularly with me being so late to the thread.

[Jim]

Tom (if you wished to run it and had the time): Skipping the obstacles and during the day and how close Hells is to town and how popular it is I'd easily consider running it solo. It does offer nice vistas over the Colorado River valley.

[open_circuit]

Getaklu:

My wife and kids are interested in scenery and interesting destinations, but won't handle high difficulty/technical trails well. I thought we would use Fins and Things as a benchmark to see whether they want to do something like Hell's Revenge (with bypasses) or stick to milder trails. My daughter requested Rainbow Terrace, which is a pretty easy (moderate rating) trail.

Also, I think my wife (and daughters?) want to spend a day in the national park or surrounding area hiking. If I can arrange for that without giving up my Jeep, that might be a good day to tackle Hell's or something else that they are uninterested in.

The biggest concern is just picking trails that are geographically connected to make the trail days work properly. Days are short this time of year, and picking trails blindly can result in several hours between finishing one trail and starting the next. Clearly the goal would be to hit stuff in Sand Flats area all in a group, for instance.

By the way, you all realize Sand Flats has a separate use fee? We'll have to buy some sort of permit to run those. This should not be a problem, but I don't know where/how to get the permit yet.

[Getaklu]

Some trail ideas:

https://www.jeeptheusa.com/moab-jeep-trails.html#List_of_Trails

Fees are $5/day or $10/week for a vehicle:

https://www.grandcountyutah.net/296/Fees

The visitor center may have them or would know where to get them.

[FINOCJ]

Sand Flats has a separate use fee? We'll have to buy some sort of permit to run those. This should not be a problem, but I don't know where/how to get the permit yet.

You buy the permits when you drive into Sand Flats Rec area - they have ranger station/gate like a National Park. Its $5 cash (day), or $7 or $8 for credit card. They also give you a map - although its not the greatest of the various trails.

[Getaklu]

Looks like the station may only be open through October. The other option I saw was the courthouse, it has limited hours of 8-5 M-F.

Another reasonable trail guide:
https://www.rr4w.com/Trails-Home.cfm

[Tom]

Looks like the station may only be open through October. The other option I saw was the courthouse, it has limited hours of 8-5 M-F.

Another reasonable trail guide:
https://www.rr4w.com/Trails-Home.cfm
I believe there is a self serve pay station at the main entrance with envelopes for paying, but not positive.

[FINOCJ]

As Tom said...there is a self service pay station at the entrance.

[Java]

Getaklu:

My wife and kids are interested in scenery and interesting destinations, but won't handle high difficulty/technical trails well. I thought we would use Fins and Things as a benchmark to see whether they want to do something like Hell's Revenge (with bypasses) or stick to milder trails. My daughter requested Rainbow Terrace, which is a pretty easy (moderate rating) trail.

Also, I think my wife (and daughters?) want to spend a day in the national park or surrounding area hiking. If I can arrange for that without giving up my Jeep, that might be a good day to tackle Hell's or something else that they are uninterested in.

The biggest concern is just picking trails that are geographically connected to make the trail days work properly. Days are short this time of year, and picking trails blindly can result in several hours between finishing one trail and starting the next. Clearly the goal would be to hit stuff in Sand Flats area all in a group, for instance.

By the way, you all realize Sand Flats has a separate use fee? We'll have to buy some sort of permit to run those. This should not be a problem, but I don't know where/how to get the permit yet.

Gemini Bridges & Bull Canyon go together well, then you can keep goiing to Dead Horse park, and take Long Canyon back. It's an awesome loop that is really easy but a lot of fun. For hiking and wheeling in the park, Elephant Hill is the best 4x4 trail in Moab IMO, and Elephant Hill hiking trail through Chesler Park is the best hike there, again IMO. They can hike to Devils Kitchen and meet you, you can do the Joint trail and then drive them out.

[Tom]

Getaklu:

My wife and kids are interested in scenery and interesting destinations, but won't handle high difficulty/technical trails well. I thought we would use Fins and Things as a benchmark to see whether they want to do something like Hell's Revenge (with bypasses) or stick to milder trails. My daughter requested Rainbow Terrace, which is a pretty easy (moderate rating) trail.
I totally understand. I love scenery too. I am up for whatever works for anyone, except maybe the real hard stuff and I don’t think I need be concerned about that.:D

[jayson44]

this sounds interesting! I'll have to check our calendar to see when my son has off for school...I'll keep watching this one.

J.

[open_circuit]

this sounds interesting! I'll have to check our calendar to see when my son has off for school...I'll keep watching this one.

My kids (Adams 12) are off all week. That makes this an easy week to plan some activities for us.

[open_circuit]

Met up with our travelling companions tonight and got their input on trails. We have a list of what we plan to run:

Day 1 (moderate day)
==============
Bull Canyon & Day Canyon (to the base of Gemini Bridges) with some light hiking
Gemini Bridges with some light hiking (you can hike on top of the bridges, very cool)
Long Canyon => back to Moab.

Day 2 (hard day)
===========
Onion Creek
Top of the World

Day 3 (Arches day)
============
Some hiking in Arches National Park. Leave some folks who want to hike more and take the Jeeps to go wheel:
Tower Arch
Fallen Peace Officer Trail
-- Pick up hikers
Return home via Willow Springs Road? (marked trail in Wells guide).

Obviously Fins & Hells revenge aren't on this list. If Getaklu and Tom want to hit those and/or other more challenging trails, feel free to pair off and run them without us. It looks like I'll have to run some of those on another trip to keep everyone in my house happy.

Getaklu -- depending on how much hiking / wheeling you want to do in Arches, you might like our day 3 plan.

[Tom]

Met up with our travelling companions tonight and got their input on trails. We have a list of what we plan to run:

Day 1 (moderate day)
==============
Bull Canyon & Day Canyon (to the base of Gemini Bridges) with some light hiking
Gemini Bridges with some light hiking (you can hike on top of the bridges, very cool)
Long Canyon => back to Moab.

Day 2 (hard day)
===========
Onion Creek
Top of the World

Day 3 (Arches day)
============
Some hiking in Arches National Park. Leave some folks who want to hike more and take the Jeeps to go wheel:
Tower Arch
Fallen Peace Officer Trail
-- Pick up hikers
Return home via Willow Springs Road? (marked trail in Wells guide).

Obviously Fins & Hells revenge aren't on this list. If Getaklu and Tom want to hit those and/or other more challenging trails, feel free to pair off and run them without us. It looks like I'll have to run some of those on another trip to keep everyone in my house happy.

Getaklu -- depending on how much hiking / wheeling you want to do in Arches, you might like our day 3 plan.
Looks fine to me although perhaps some l o o o n g days. They are all new to me so Fins and Hells are not an issue. I don't have the Wells book so don't know where the trail heads are except for Gemini. We should set up a meeting location for each morning somewhere in town I think. Getaklu and I have exchanged phone numbers. I still don't have yours Trent.

[open_circuit]

James and I ran the Day 1 route last year. I recall that being an ~8am -> 3pm sort of day.

Day 2 could be long because ToTW is a difficult / long trail. Wells says Onion Creek is 2-ish hours, depending on how much you stop. ToTW is 3-5 hours. We tried not to plan more than 7-8 hours of trail per day.

Day 3, the trails are short and appear to be easy, except a sandy section on Tower Arch. Note that these trails are within Arches NP and will require an entrance fee to the park (or a parks pass if you have one).

I'll PM you Tom.

[Getaklu]

Getaklu -- depending on how much hiking / wheeling you want to do in Arches, you might like our day 3 plan.

We may slow you down that third day as my daughter will want to get her "Jr. Ranger Badge", we will more than likely peel off. Neat program but may be a little young for your daughters, https://www.nps.gov/arch/learn/kidsyouth/beajuniorranger.htm. We are also going to stay in Grand Junction Tuesday night so will be leaving from Arches.

Thanks for putting these trails, and the run together.

Planning on hitting Sego Canyon on the way out there Saturday as well.

[Getaklu]

Arches NP and will require an entrance fee to the park (or a parks pass if you have one).

I don't recall what grades your daughters are in, but if one is in 4th grade, you can get a free pass that covers most, if not all of the parks. https://www.everykidinapark.gov

[open_circuit]

We have an annual pass, so we're covered for park entrance. My girls have enjoyed getting junior ranger badges over the last several years. They may participate in that at Arches as well.

[Tom]

James and I ran the Day 1 route last year. I recall that being an ~8am -> 3pm sort of day.

Day 2 could be long because ToTW is a difficult / long trail. Wells says Onion Creek is 2-ish hours, depending on how much you stop. ToTW is 3-5 hours. We tried not to plan more than 7-8 hours of trail per day.

Day 3, the trails are short and appear to be easy, except a sandy section on Tower Arch. Note that these trails are within Arches NP and will require an entrance fee to the park (or a parks pass if you have one).

I'll PM you Tom.
Got your pm Trent. Parks pass is no problem I have a lifetime pass for cheap. Thats what happens when you get old before they bump the price. Age 62 and $20 at the time 5 years ago. Will bring my daypack.

[Tom]

Ok so Sego Canyon.

To get to the ghost town.

Once at the pictographs continue on down the road, you’ll get to an interesection. Take the right this will iirc head back kind of close to the direction you came, but it will be heading up. Thip climb will top out near the cemetary. The road will head left here. Continue on to the ghost town. Not far but make certain you go as far as the large stone building remenents on your left I believe.

[Jim]

Sego
buildings 39.033611, -109.702944 (Google Map (https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B002'01.0%22N+109%C2%B042'10.6%22W/@39.033614,-109.7034772,193m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d39.0 336135!4d-109.7029296))
cemetery 39.023445, -109.710846 (Google Map (https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B001'24.4%22N+109%C2%B042'39.1%22W/@39.0234491,-109.7130347,770m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d39.02344 5!4d-109.710846)) link updated
rock art 39.018116, -109.710369 (Google Map (https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B001'05.2%22N+109%C2%B042'37.3%22W/@39.018117,-109.7109162,193m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x0:0x0!2zMznCsDA yJzAxLjAiTiAxMDnCsDQyJzEwLjYiVw!3b1!7e2!8m2!3d39.0 336135!4d-109.7029296!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d39.0181165!4d-109.7103688))
rail line remnant 39.033274, -109.703991 (Google Map (https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B001'59.8%22N+109%C2%B042'14.4%22W/@39.0333287,-109.7040736,120m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x0:0x0!2zMznCsDAyJzA xLjAiTiAxMDnCsDQyJzEwLjYiVw!3b1!7e2!8m2!3d39.03361 35!4d-109.7029296!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d39.0332739!4d-109.7039908))

For some "old west" nostalgia - take the two-lane between Thompson and Crescent Junction (Google Map (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.9711182,-109.7147763/38.9435041,-109.8168084/@38.9574253,-109.8003047,12335m/am=t/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!4m1!5i1)). Yea, the interstate is "right over there" but it's a slower pace on an somewhat abandoned road, as I recall, that is starting to be encroached by weeds / grasses.

[Tom]

Blm 160 is the turnoff I mentioned on Jims google map. The diamond partway up is the cemetery.

[Tom]

So I guess they only thing left is where and when to meet up for the first run on Sunday.

[Getaklu]

Looks like the trails for that day are north of town. We could meet at Lions park.

[Tom]

Looks like the trails for that day are north of town. We could meet at Lions park.
That works for me. Say about 6AM😜🤡🤪🤓Jk.

[open_circuit]

I left my Jeep aired down for the entire trip last year. Took the tires down to ~20 PSI and left everything trail-ready to save constantly airing up and down. I will prep my Jeep Saturday night, expecting to meet up Sunday morning and roll out pretty quickly. Still thinking about how early to get out there.

Regarding Lions park: there are two parking lots. The one closest to the river and playground has a restroom, I think. We should probably meet in that lot. There is also a neat pedestrian bridge across the river at that park.

Edit: I looked at the map and see there are actually 3 lots. Two lots north of 128 and one south of 128. The lot on the north side of 128, adjacent to 191 is the one I am suggesting we meet at.

[Getaklu]

Sounds like a place - time that works for all?

Thinking to leave early Saturday as there will be ski traffic to contend with. Hoping roads will be good, 285 was a bit sketchy in places coming back earlier.

[open_circuit]

Sunrise is 7:05 on Nov 18 in Moab if my Google search is right. We have a lot of trail planned for Sunday, so we should get out around sunrise. How about wheels down at 7:30 at Lions park?

[Getaklu]

Sounds like a plan.

[Tom]

Sunrise is 7:05 on Nov 18 in Moab if my Google search is right. We have a lot of trail planned for Sunday, so we should get out around sunrise. How about wheels down at 7:30 at Lions park?
Sounds fine.

[open_circuit]

The forecast in Moab for 11/17 - 11/21 is looking remarkably stable. Wunderground is predicting clear skies and no precipitation, with temps ranging daily from ~30F to ~55F. Looks like we should have some good wheeling weather.

[Tom]

The forecast in Moab for 11/17 - 11/21 is looking remarkably stable. Wunderground is predicting clear skies and no precipitation, with temps ranging daily from ~30F to ~55F. Looks like we should have some good wheeling weather.
Been watching it too. Looks almost ideal the entire time. Pulled out my suitcase and coolers today and started some packing. Can’t wait.

[Tom]

Is it Saturday yet? I want to get out and go.

[Getaklu]

Anxiously awaiting as well.

[Tom]

Virtually all packed. Shaver and some electronics, and coolers are all thats left. Heading out early on Sat. Likely 7am or before.

[Getaklu]

Virtually all packed. Shaver and some electronics, and coolers are all thats left. Heading out early on Sat. Likely 7am or before.

Shaver? It is called no shave November for a reason.

Hoping to get out 6:30ish ourselves.

[open_circuit]

Watch out for the snow on 70 Saturday. Ski traffic and Loveland pass closures could make for a long drive

[open_circuit]

My buddy who is coming on the trip is having a weird noise from the engine bay in his 97 (?) TJ. Does anyone know what this sound is? https://photos.app.goo.gl/yLqbxaHxBt55AnQL6 Hoping to fix it tomorrow so he doesn't end up bringing his Frontier instead of the Jeep.

[Getaklu]

Is that a new belt? If not, an idler pulley bearing may be suspect. A/C on in the video?

[Jim]

If fluids are good (PS in mind) then I'd question a bearing on an accessory or idler to be suspect.

If he has some ?fuel? hose (two or three feet) hold one end to an ear and the other, with care, by moving parts to see if he can locate the source.

[open_circuit]

AC was off. He's going to remove the belt tomorrow and check for anything loose. Idler pulley will get a good long look.

[Getaklu]

The belt looked awfully shiny if not new which could point to an idler hanging up.

[Java]

Is that a new belt? I ask because I had a weird sound similar to that in our Xterra from the time we got it, it went back to the dealer twice for it and they couldn't figure it out. It had been in a small accident before we got it and the a/c mounting bracket was bent; they repaired it and certified it but we noticed that it made that sound and brought it back twice... so after some google I found that if there is any variation in the alignment of the pulleys it will make a variety of potential sounds with a V-belt. Going to a belt with cross-grooves like this one fixed it:

https://media.autoplicity.com/content/images/6/00061865_0.jpg

[open_circuit]

he belt looked awfully shiny if not new

Not a new belt. forgot to reply to you before.

[Tom]

Watch out for the snow on 70 Saturday. Ski traffic and Loveland pass closures could make for a long drive
The forecasts I have read is for a slight chance of snow on Sat. AM, snow starting in vail abt 2 pm and Grand Jct 55 and sunny. Have you heard different?

[open_circuit]

The forecasts I have read is for a slight chance of snow on Sat. AM, snow starting in vail abt 2 pm and Grand Jct 55 and sunny. Have you heard different?

I haven't looked quite that closely. I saw snow forecast for Saturday throughout the I-70 corridor. After spending ~4.5 hours getting to Vail last year on this trip, I am paying more attention to the forecast for any snow this year. Hopefully it doesn't end up being too bad.

[Tom]

I haven't looked quite that closely. I saw snow forecast for Saturday throughout the I-70 corridor. After spending ~4.5 hours getting to Vail last year on this trip, I am paying more attention to the forecast for any snow this year. Hopefully it doesn't end up being too bad.
Remind me to tell you about my vacation from hell about this time of year 8-9 years ago. It involves snow on i70.

[Tom]

Crap. The forecast has changed. They are now saying freezing drizzle starting at about 10:30 tonight.


Action Recommended: Execute a pre-planned activity identified in the instructionsIssued by: Denver/Boulder - CO, US, National Weather Service,...WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM 3 AM SATURDAY TO MIDNIGHT MST SATURDAY NIGHT... * WHAT...Mixed precipitation expected, spreading southward across the plains late tonight into early Saturday morning. Total snow accumulations of up to two inches and ice accumulations less than one tenth of an inch expected. * WHERE...Portions of east central, north central and northeast Colorado, including the I-25 Corridor from the Wyoming border through Denver and the Palmer Divide. * WHEN...From 3 AM Saturday to midnight MST Saturday night. * ADDITIONAL DETAILS...Plan on slippery road conditions. PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS... A Winter Weather Advisory means that periods of snow, sleet or freezing rain will cause travel difficulties. Expect slippery roads and limited visibilities, and use caution while driving. The latest road conditions for the state you are calling from can be obtained by calling 5 1 1. &&
More Information...FREEZING DRIZZLE AND LIGHT SNOW WILL LIKELY IMPACT TRAVEL LATE TONIGHT INTO SATURDAY NIGHT... .Light freezing drizzle is expected to develop across the plains later tonight and then continue into Saturday morning. The freezing drizzle will first develop along the Wyoming border shortly after midnight, and then spread southward across the plains through early Saturday morning. The precipitation will eventually mix with and change to mainly light snow from north to south on Saturday, with snow continuing into Saturday evening before ending late Saturday night. Slick roads and sidewalks can be expected late tonight into early Saturday as temperatures drop several degrees below freezing. Daylight should bring improvement to road conditions mid morning to mid/late afternoon Saturday, with a refreeze and more hazardous travel expected Saturday evening.

[Jim]

Any chance you can leave late today (and beat the drizzle at elevation) and stay in an inexpensive room on the western slope / Rifle / GJ?

[open_circuit]

If you can get past Vail tonight and find a hotel, you might be able to avoid all of the worst weather. Just a thought.

[Tom]

Will have to talk to the wife about leaving early

[Java]

You can see the cdot cameras and alerts here: http://cotrip.org/home.htm

[Tom]

Just booked a room in Glenwood for tonight.

[Tom]

Leavng Longmont within the hour.

[Getaklu]

My buddy who is coming on the trip is having a weird noise from the engine bay in his 97 (?) TJ. Does anyone know what this sound is? https://photos.app.goo.gl/yLqbxaHxBt55AnQL6 Hoping to fix it tomorrow so he doesn't end up bringing his Frontier instead of the Jeep.

Come up with a fix or bringing the Frontier?

[Tom]

Made it to Glenwood

[Jim]

Any precip to deal with?



A couple sprinkles in FoCo but things are essentially dry so far.

[Tom]

S
Any precip to deal with?



A couple sprinkles in FoCo but things are essentially dry so far.
None. Its supposed to be front range and ne colo. iirc

[open_circuit]

Come up with a fix or bringing the Frontier?

No luck. He couldn't figure it out, and decided to bring the truck. He said the noise was inconsistent and he wasn't comfortable driving the jeep so far with that unknown.

[Tom]

Made it to Moab. Chris how were the roads out of the front range this am?

[Getaklu]

Just hit Moab after a detour at Sego Canyon, well worth the detour. A bit of traffic up 70 until about Frisco. There was some fog/mist up until @ Bakersville but never hit any slick spots. Overall, not a bad drive.

[open_circuit]

We also drove Sego canyon from Thompson springs today. We returned via Sager Canyon, which was a really great drive. Sager canyon access is via the Thompson/Sego canyon main route. We didn't know what was on that spur, but took it in the spirit of adventure. Great surprise, fantastic views.

[FINOCJ]

Have fun guys...we'll wave at you from afar up on I70 as we pass heading west to St George on Sunday. I think all you guys got out of here before it got kind of ugly...around noon today the mist turned into freezing rain. It was slick on the west side of town near Morrison and up into the foothills.