Warn 16.5ti on 2008 Rubicon Earthroamer

[Pgopinath]

Looking for ideas/experience with this.

Vehicle is a 2008 JKUR converted to an Earthroamer. It weighs around 8500 lbs fully loaded for a few days off-road camping. The front bumper is an AEV premium and it has a Warn 9.5ti with 80' of cable mounted in/on the front bumper using an AEV winch mount plate. I believe that the current winch is not powerful enough for self recovery in if bogged down deep or on a slope.

I would like to change out the front winch to a Warn 16.5TI with 50' of synthetic line. The Warn 9.5ti with 80' cable weighs just about the same as the Warn 16.5TI with 50' of synthetic line.

I have spoken to AEV and they assert that there is no way to fit the 16.5 in their front bumper and they are right. With some major surgery and metal removal it could be made to fit but i am not sure if that would seriously weaken the bumper.

So:
1. Does anyone know of a full width front bumper for a 2008 JKUR, ideally in aluminium, that could mount a Warn 16.5ti? I have spoken to the folks at Pronghorn Offroad and their front bumper with a Topmount winch carrier box supposedly can handle this.
2. Anyone have any other ideas for getting this done.

Thanks
Prabha

[Java]

Personally I'd switch the current winch cable to a longer synthetic line and buy a few snatch blocks and shackles, maybe an extension line. The snatch block can double your pulling power, and IMO that warn 9.5 woud pull you up a cliff as is.

[newracer]

Or switch to a 12k winch and snatch blocks.

[newracer]

What is the limiting dimension?

[Jim]

A comment, though not what you're seeking (fitting a different winch), as I often think of "what options exist"...

Most pulls aren't overly demanding where a straight line pull might be sufficient. For the demanding pull, using a snatch-block (or blocks) to double (or triple) effective force could be an reasonable route to solve the issue.

You may well have considered this route.

EDIT: Chuckle - I sat with the message composed thinking - should I post or not - it's not a direct answer to the question so perhaps I should keep my mouth shut. But I ended up clicking submit and left the office - to return much later to see others said the same - before and after me. Best wishes with the solution you're content with! added - I agree that a long winch line is desirable but also having a decent selection of extensions - either a single extension line or multiple straps - that can be combined (my pref is multiple straps for the variety aspect).

[FINOCJ]

I am with both of the above - either stay with the 9.5 or go to a 12k winch (preferred with 8k truck) with longer synthetic line and snatchblock - the snatch block will double your pulling power. Addiitonally, 50' of cable is really short. I would prefer 100" at a minimum - so even like 150'. You can carry additional line in a toolbox with recovery gear so it doesn't have to fit on the winch drum.

[Spieg]

A 16.5k winch will probably be enough to rip that bumper completely off as is... don't think I'd start removing metal.

[Pgopinath]

All:

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I am looking for all options and suggestions including, and especially, ones that challenge my preconceptions.

In a previous life i worked on military off-road vehicles (google: HDT Storm; GAARV STORM) for AFSOC, NSWC, and DevGRU. I am not a vehicle engineer but i spent enough time with the designers to absorb a few rules of thumb. Their design parameters were winch power = 2X vehicle weight. Line ABS = 2x winch power. The Storm had a winch on the front and on the rear. The typical loadout also included a Tractel TU-32 Griphoist with synthetic line and multiple Greifzug sheave blocks. It also had a CTIS, a SAW on each door, a 50 CAL or CROWS (optional) on the roof :)

My setup is more modest: I have 50' of 36,500lb ABS synthetic line on the 16.5TI winch and carry two extensions of 100' each with the same ABS. I have one appropriately rated snatch block. I have used the currently mounted Warn9.5ti with the snatch block for some self recovery pulls where the winch was struggling. In one instance I slid off onto an ice covered marshy lake edge (in MN) and sank about a foot. I couldn't pull myself out with the recovery gear I had with me.

Pulling an 8500lb vehicle up a 45 degree slope is effectively a 8500 x 1.414 = 12019 lb load. Throw in static resistance (wheels sunk in mud) an it could be a 2x multiplier = 17,000 lbs.

I have two used 16.5TI winches i picked up after my MN experience so this could be a case of a solution looking for problems. If a 16.5 can be made to fit that would be great. If not I will need to reconfigure my recovery gear setup - lines, snatch blocks etc.

Thanks
Prabha

[open_circuit]

I have a 9.5 Ti on my 2005 LJ. I've only used it once, but it was last month in Moab when we tried to pull a ~9000 lb pickup truck out of some deep mud/dirt. My winch line was attached to the stuck truck, and we tried to pull him in. I only succeeded in pulling my (much lighter) Jeep closer to the truck, until Getaklu anchored my Jeep with his using a tow line. In this configuration, the winch held even with my Jeep anchored/towed by Getaklu, and we were able to extract the truck. I think the 9.5 Ti, with a block and tackle would get you out of many situations.

[Pgopinath]

Jim:

I like to keep the line length on the winch short, especially in my case where I need all the pull capacity of the winch. The maximum pull is rated on the first layer of line on the drum. So i prefer to spool out the max possible from the winch drum and use extensions if i need greater reach.

On a Warn 9.5 the first layer gives me 9500 lbs; the second layer 8650; by the 5th layer i am down to 6940lbs.

Prabha

[dieseldoc]

Yet use of the blocks will dubble or tripple line pull.
You think a 120ton crane does this single line....
The blocks have at least 5 rows....
So figure the use of a block on a 90 foot cable.
Your down to 45 foot at 19k line pull off the drum first layer. So by the math you now in the short range you want, and well over the sigle line pull you will have with what now needs custom work on the bumper you all ready own. As well I don't think the frame horns will live long at these kind of power pulls. Your going to have issues. Need the stress transferred down the frame not right in front as the JK is built.

Just my :2c: as a heavy equipment mechanic.

[Pgopinath]

After thinking about all the replies and honestly looking at my various possible self-recovery scenarios I am convinced now to stay with my current front bumper setup with the Warn 9.cti. I figured that 99% of my pulls will be well within the straight up capability of my current 9.5cti.

Actually this is a relief because i was uneasy about getting any metal surgery done on my bumpers or spending big bucks on new bumpers, especially since i couldnt find anyone that had mounted a 16.5 on a JKUR. I will put in some good synthetic line and beef up my recovery kit with additional snatch blocks and line extensions.

I really appreciate all the feedback and advice. This is a good community.

Prabha

[GPP33]

I think you settled on the right solution. Had you tried to adapt it you may have run into mounting hole location issues as well, I know the 18k has a different mounting pattern, not sure about the 16.5.

Pete