58 Willys Wagon

[derf]

If there ain't no oil under it there ain't no oil in it.

[Jim]

its been sitting overnight and already have a puddle of oil from the D18 on the floor.

I'm curious. (if/when you find the source) Is it from a conventional sealing surface or from one of the through bolts you commented upon?

[FINOCJ]

Seems to be leaking around the pan gasket. I think it's mostly sorted...didn't want to pull it all out, so it was a sort of duct tape type fix, but at least its not dripping. Sure it will seep and weep, especially once it's running. other more concerning issues right now to stress about

[dr350jja]

Wow, that is nice. Enjoy the new rig!

[FINOCJ]

The sbc350/sm465/D18 combo is in...cross-member mounting went pretty well. Starting to work on finalizing some of the accessories, lines hoses etc....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/09/PXL_20211110_043215695.jpg

Figuring out belts...on the alternator belt, I don't know if I like this routing with the belt going around the crank and then up to the alternator and water pump....I could run the alt only from the wp (the wp would be driven by the ps belt)
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/09/PXL_20211110_043230561-1.jpg

And the behemoth 465 protruding up through the floorboard....the random GM truck shifter that came with it is functional enough for now. Its a bit close to the right leg but it will work for now - sometime later I can work on bending it more to the center. There is just enough room to get my foot to the gas pedal with the modified brake pedal....floorboard tunnel cover work is much further down the line, although I may have to expand the D18 shifter pin access/removal hole upwards. The D18 is in the same fore-aft and left-right position, but 1/2" higher than it was in stock configuration.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/09/PXL_20211110_043301432.jpg

So, even though I did a bunch of test fitting, this is my first attempt at something like this, and finding some stuff I missed planning for etc. So current thoughts - I wish the entire drivetrain was pushed toward the passenger side just an inch or so from where it is now. Currently, the engine is shifted 1-1.5 inches towards the driver side - this gave a bit more clearance from the front passenger differential and driveshaft, but it also complicates things around the through the floor pedals and clutch fork. The mistake I am recognizing I made is I might have pushed things a bit too far driver side, as the huge sm465 is easy to get pushed too far into the driver floorboard affecting access to the pedals (which I figured out a bit ago), as well as the end of the clutch fork can interfere with the lower end of the brake pedal (this I am just recognizing and really, really thinking (hoping) its going to clear, but its going to be TIGHT!), and at some point, the exhaust will have to find a way through and under the area as well. If the engine were shifted an inch or to the right from where it currently sits (essentially putting it right down the middle), there would be a bit more room in and around and under the driver side floorboard, and I don't think the front driveshaft would be that big of an issue as the D18 would also get pushed to the right. The front diff to oil pan, as well as driveshaft to starter would be concerns, but I think it would be fine, and the extra little bit of space on the drive side would be helpful.

I smashed up the thumb on my dominant hand today, so we'll see what kind of tedious stuff I can work through tomorrow, but hoping to clean-up the area under the dash with various cable and wiring stuff. Clutch cable work as well.

[FINOCJ]

There have been 2 expected things that I never really figured out ahead of time: the clutch activation/linkage and the battery location.
I 'think' I got the clutch sorted with a cable set-up similar to the late v6 cj5 long cables....I had to make a little angle bracket to anchor the pedal end of the sleeve:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/11/PXL_20211111_201710873.jpg

The bracket mounts to the inside of the frame rail (on the cj5 its outside the frame rail), and I am using an OEM bracket that mounts to the D18, although it would originally been on a large case D18, so I had to use some spacers and 'finagle' it a little bit on the small case D18:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/11/PXL_20211111_212341818.jpg

At the clutch fork end, I had to add a bit of threaded rod to lengthen it a few inches, and used cj5 style adjuster nut to connect into the fork...I also had previously drilled out the fork to fit the adjuster nut. The angle of this pic makes the cable look poorly aligned, but its really pretty decent as you an see in the previous picture.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/11/PXL_20211111_212250712.jpg

So, still need to finalize this, paint the bracket, add jam nuts, add return springs....the pedal feels very smooth and easy, but I may still need to shorten a bit more. I'd like to have someone work the pedal while I can be under there watching, but everything looks like it will clear, but it is tight. Something about how the pedal feels is worrying me, but its hard to explain. I guess I'd like to feel a bit more definitive change in resistance when the T/O bearing pushes the diaphragm fingers.

[FINOCJ]

More adventures in fabricating....Made a battery tray (well just tacked into shape)....The space is pretty tight so I didn't trust I could fit any generic purchased tray so a custom job it is...I believe this the OEM location for the battery tray anyway as there is some extra support on the firewall which I was happy to use - although I had to push things a bit more towards the driver side to clear the v8, and am using a small size 24 battery. The upper driver side mount uses what I think is an original mount hole with additional bracing support behind it. Good backing fender washers should provide enough support for the other stuff. Will now have to find a new place to mount the brake reservoirs - probably on the inside of the fender behind the fenderwell where there is a bracing channel with nice vertical surface.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/12/PXL_20211112_212352607.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Nothing too exciting today...but just trying to make some sort of progress everyday...just some painting of brackets and things, and installed the 4 new shocks:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/13/PXL_20211113_234727496.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/13/PXL_20211113_233446991.jpg

These are not quite as large a diameter as most of the standard 'off-road' aftermarket shocks like Rancho etc - These are more like 2" diameter instead of 2.5", and it gives nice clearance from the front axle. On the cj, the wider body aftermarket shocks won't fit on the front unless I flip then upside down or I think a lot of you move the shock mount. The steering stops also beat the heck out them as well - but on the wider track wagon, that shouldn't be an issue. The cheap Gabriel Ultra shocks I put on the front of the cj at some point (older but probably better RCs on the rear) worked fine for 5 years, but are pretty much toast at this point - possibly due more to the physical abuse to the the shock body from axle contact than anything else, but will probably upgrade to higher quality shock for the cj soon. But for the wagon, if these match the Gabriel, that will be fine (and cheaper). Although these are cheap Monroe shocks - they are made in the USA - says so on both the box and the shock body...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/13/PXL_20211112_233647219.jpg

[Java]

I use those on my offroad trailer, a pair designed for the rear of an early Ford minivan with a beam axle. They do a good job for me, I bet you'll end up liking them.

[FINOCJ]

The inside of the front fenders were filthy, greasy, rusty and kind of ugly - they still have some of the original red/maroon color, but they also had some grey paint sprayed on the top of the fenders. Both fenders had a bit of rust pitting developing, and the passenger fender had an ugly mess of battery acid leakage and corrosion under where the battery had been relocated that ate away all the paint. Since I repainted the firewall, figured it was time to paint these to match before they go back on. There is a part of me that kind of didn't want to cover up the original red and to leave it as homage to its origins, as well as the sort of 'it may look a bit rough, but what really matters is how it runs' theme. The driver side would probably have been fine to leave as was, but the passenger side needed to be redone completely.

None of this is a quality paint job - just a good soapy hose and brush cleaning, a little sanding and scuffing and some rattle can, nothing more. The exterior paint isn't quality, and the underside and overlapping mounting surfaces aren't the best, but just cleaned up and will use as is - maybe one day it will get proper body work. This is just enough to make the engine compartment look reasonable (maybe). When I painted the firewall, I ended up with a paint that is too 'silvery' and light - I kind of wanted it to be just a bit darker grey, but once the firewall was done, then these need to match. Anything is better than what was there....

The fenders after a good soapy cleaning:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/15/PXL_20211114_210835467.jpg

After painting....it was supposed to be a perfect warm day today with sun and no wind...but its cloudy and windy which isn't helping the painting, but at least its warm:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/15/PXL_20211115_202648437.jpg

Its starting to come together - most of the engine wiring and plumbing is all done...with the engine a few inches further forward than the previous one, absolutely everything in terms of old hoses and wiring etc is all just a bit short....but replacing almost everything with new stuff anyway.

[FINOCJ]

Another item checked off the list....with the new PS pump mounting and engine location etc, I needed a new power steering hose as the old one was way too long, and I also needed to shorten and re-bend the hard line on the pump end (not to mention it seemed to want to kink more than bend when I was messing with it). It was a bit of an adventure - got to see some of Denver that I had never seen before - but found a local shop that makes hydraulic hoses etc. I don't think they usually custom bend hard line for customers - mostly just re-use the existing stuff - but the old timer was kind of interested in my project and decided to spend a bit of extra time working out some solutions. I think I paid a bit dear price ($80 for some hose, 2 fittings and some custom modification), but considering I hadn't had much luck elsewhere, and I walked in and 30 min later I walked out with exactly what I needed, and had helpful service with some expertise and concern to help me out with a bit of custom work, it was a good deal.

So if anyone needs some custom hydraulic lines done (they also do all sorts of brake lines, air lines etc), check out Whistler Bearing (http://www.whislerbearing.com/). In addition to a shop in Denver, they also have a shop in Colo Springs. Next time, I'll know to get the fittings and straight hard line from them first, and then take it home to bend exactly how I want, and then return to the shop with the measurement for length of hose needed, and clocking of fittings.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/15/PXL_20211116_000815071.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/15/PXL_20211116_000518315.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Getting stuff done....needed a break from engine stuff....so 4 new ujoints into the driveshafts.

https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/16/PXL_20211116_232930261.jpg

Then spent a lot of today on electrical stuff....Is there any pic to represent many hours upside down, in and out of the cab, under and around the jeep on all sides getting the wiring all in place? Maybe no more wires hanging from under the dash? Its not super pretty up under there, but since I didn't start from scratch, I sort of letting some of it be as it was, although I cleaned up a little bit of it, especially around the ignition switch and headlight switch. Mostly there were a few 'add-in' wires to get power for other things, so I removed those, added an ACC post on the firewall to connect that stuff to. Everything under the dash is still running inline fuses, but at some point, I'd like to set up 2 fuse boxes (Batt and ACC) like I did the in cj...but this will work for now. The column used the GM style flat 'harmonica' connector for the turn signals, hazards, horn, but its pretty simple as there is no ignition switch in the column - I moved that to the dash awhile ago. The only thing that was a bit goofy, and I didn't change it, was there are two separate circuits for the turn signals and hazards - each circuit with its own flasher canister....In the end, I decided it was nice and simple, and I could power the signals with ACC and the hazards with Batt. I like electrical stuff in terms of getting it organized and clean....but I'd much rather do it upright on the bench!
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/17/PXL_20211118_051936664.jpg

As for the engine side, that is a lot more from scratch, so really trying to make it clean and neat....ignore the parking brake cable that is not routed yet. The ignition, starter, charging and ground stuff is essentially done. The section of the harness that goes to the exterior accessories (lights and electric fan) will be done once the fender is back on (which is hopefully tomorrow morning).
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/17/PXL_20211118_054917880.jpg

The flywheel dust cover came in today from 4speed Conversions...fit perfectly....but the 4th bolt that holds it in is hard to get at behind the oil filter, so it may wait until the first oil change after break in...of course, that is the bolt that holds my little bracket for the clutch fork return spring. It will be fine for break-in with just the pedal return spring I think.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/17/PXL_20211118_055013264.jpg

Also wanted to switch the primary jets in the qjet back to the OEM 71s...I swapped them down to 69s a couple years ago for the 283, but time to go back up with the 350 application. The carb number indicates its from a 1969 350 with auto (as is the intake) with 71 jets (and that is what I found in it when I got it). Given the primaries also have rods (49B) in them, the size of the jets is maybe less important than in something like the 2g carb on the cj5, but definitely don't want it running lean when I get it started up. We'll see how the plugs look after a bit. I also found the accelerator pump cup (which I changed a couple years ago) was torn - nothing likes the ethanol I guess. I ordered a new cup kit from Mikes, and it came with a single lip cup and garter spring whereas I think historically the qjet didn't run a spring - and the previous rebuild kit from Mike's came with the double lip cup (which tore) and no spring. Anyway, a bit of research from Cliffs and Quadrajet Parts also show both cups on their website and suggest the new style with the spring is the best option. Unfortunately, I had a lot of difficulty with the spring not wanting to stay in the new cup...I actually ended up using another cup I had in my collection that is the correct diameter measurements and seems to hold the spring in....arghhh, stupid fiddly stuff shouldn't be this difficult (seems like just low quality parts) that can cause bigger issues. I wanted a new A-pump with cup and all to install as one, but neither Mike's nor Quadrajet parts had one....If Cliffs has one, I'll order one for the collection. If it gives me any trouble, its coming off for more work right off the bat.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/17/PXL_20211118_031143215.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/17/PXL_20211118_032916245.jpg

I am down to 13 days before I leave....running out time....

[speedkills]

Thanks for those carb pics, brings back memories of wrenching when I was young 25 years ago. Haven't had anything with a carb besides a dirt bike in a long time but it sure makes me feel nostalgic.

[FINOCJ]

Getting so close....sorry the plug wires are a bit a mess for the photos, but will get those cleaned up just a bit....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/22/PXL_20211122_164801006.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/22/PXL_20211122_164839942.jpg

All the wiring is done as far as I can tell - but haven't tested anything. I ended up redoing some more of the old wiring, and replacing all primary wire etc...I added a large primary wire from the alt to a post you can see on the driver inner fender. From this post I was able to make a few different circuits to help keep to current flow reasonable low through any circuit. The post is +12V (BATT) and also creates a cleaner place to connect relay circuit into like the electric fan and future stuff like headlight relays and fuse blocks etc. I just decided I didn't want any issues with too much current through old wires in some places - and since I don't have any relay for the headlights, I wired it into its own circuit so to minimize dimming issues. All Acc power is on its on circuit as well. Spent a bunch (way too much) time working on a gas pedal riser bracket as well as modifying the throttle pivot/torque bar as well as the throttle rod to the carb. When I got it, there wasn't enough room for the throttle to pull back far enough to open the secondaries fully and keep the pedal position reasonable to drive. Its still not perfect, and if any carpet or anything is added, it probably won't fully open the secondaries. In the long run, a more formal solution for the gas pedal will probably be needed as there is also the tight squeeze of space between the brake pedal and the transmission. I will probably try to integrate a heel rest or block into the transmission tunnel cover as well as modify the pedal mount moving it a bit up and passenger side....
Jen leaves town today for T-giving holiday family stuff....I stay and finish the Willys....gotta have priorities....but I need her help to get the hood mounted before she leaves.

[TyTheJeepGuy]

Oh jeeze what MESS in that engine bay ;)

If you need an extra set of hands I can come help.

[Jim]

Looks great!

[Schmitty]

Coming together, lookin' sweet.

[FINOCJ]

SHE WENT AROUND THE M-FING BLOCK! After issues and failing to get it run in on Wed, I ran it in yesterday, but had some various challenges (especially working solo) - hopefully none of them detrimental to the engine in the long term. A few things needed to be addressed after that, but got the timing set good enough, clutch adjustment so it will actually go into gear, change of oil and filter (which looked fine - no metal sparkle). Its running only the short block hugger headers - so everyone knows of course, including a couple harder pulls on the slightly bigger street around the neighborhood. With no trans tunnel either - its so loud in the cab I can't really tell if the engine is running right, and probably enough exhaust fumes to make you sick right quick. But it went around the damn block!....I like how the sm465 shifts. I've been planning on paying for shop work to do the exhaust - so will give a call in on Monday to see how soon they can do it, but it won't really matter as I'm leaving on Wed for the winter. Its dripping way more oil out of the RMS than I want to think about - at least I am pretty sure its the RMS and not the pan gasket...that is a big downer. I am going to go drink, both because it went around the m-fing block and because I can't even install a decent RMS on an engine stand....I'd get drunk, but have to pick my wife up at the airport at 11 tonight...there is time to get sober before then right?

[Steve-O]

Congrats James, I think you've earned a few! :cheers:

[FINOCJ]

These were waiting when I got home....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2022/01/25/PXL_20220125_164136511.PORTRAIT.jpg

Salvage ramshorn manifolds from a 70s sbc350....they are the smaller 2" collector, but given my lower rpm focus, they should be fine. I cleaned them up and took them to a local coating company for high temp ceramic coating. Color choice was an adventure...but ended on the classic silver after planning on black and then cast iron grey... They even did a bit smoothing on the inside of the ports removing some of the casting irregularities. Sounds like if you have good mating surfaces, no gasket needed between manifold and head....hope these bring the underhood temps down....just getting the rest of the exhaust system in will help with that as well....I've got 3 days to see what I can get done.

[Jim]

Look'n good!

[TyTheJeepGuy]

I agree the headers look great. FWIW, the new manifold on my passenger side of the 401 doesn't have a gasket, no leaks (at least none audible) yet.

[speedkills]

I'll be curious to hear how the ceramic coating does at keeping underhood temps down for you. I'm thinking I should have coated or wrapped my headers, the heat just pours off of them.

[FINOCJ]

I'll be curious to hear how the ceramic coating does at keeping underhood temps down for you. I'm thinking I should have coated or wrapped my headers, the heat just pours off of them.

My only previous similar experience is with the v6 in the cj5....When I got it, it had fenderwell headers and I ran it that way for over a year. I then found some used OEM manifolds and painted them with VHT paint, and redid the entire exhaust (no more effing side dump cherry bombs!). The headers I took off were rusty (replacement was needed as they rusted through and cracked at the mounting flange) - not sure if they were ever coated or left natural and just oxidized. But switching to manifolds made things cooler under hood...although it wasn't a huge issue. I had these manifolds ceramic coated more out of ease (take them to a shop) than trying to properly cure the vht paint in the oven etc. The VHT paint has never had an issue on my cj - but guessing the little v6 doesn't put off quite as much heat as the v8. I thought about trying to wrap or paint or ceramic coat the headers - I like the fit of the headers on the v8 - but everyone I know who has tried to vht paint the headers, it lasted for awhile (a few years), but eventually it has issues. I think headers just get so damn hot compared to iron manifolds. I think a good wrap could really help with heat - but it shortens the life of the headers even more as it also traps moisture and increases corrosion. The cost of coating headers was more than manifolds, and even when coated, they only last 10 years or so of lots of use, and getting the flange to seal against the head is always a PITA on headers. Plus, even with ceramic coating, the headers will discolor due to heat - although its only aesthetic.

So, in other words, I went with old school manifolds, they'll never need replaced, they will always look good, they might help with low end torque compared to headers (like v8 350 isn't going to be enough as is!), and I expect they will help with underhood heat more than anything else. But, if you are stuck with headers, then think about getting them ceramic coated....I think it'll help with heat, but maybe not as much as iron manifolds, but it will help with longevity and appearance. I used these guys - obviously no comment on long term durability, but in terms of dealing with staff and what I judge of the initial quality of the coating - highly recommend!
https://www.appliedplastic.com/

[Jim]

I had the new muffler on the ultralight ceramic coated (inside and out). Motor was a 2-cyl 2-stroke kawasaki 440cc, air cooled. Longevity was good - I had it for 19 years (always stored inside). It started to get some pin prick rust spots but they weren't too numerous.

[FINOCJ]

Adding another project to the 58s list....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4508.jpg
https://beamingpix.com/images/2022/03/13/IMG_4538d75597cc2be149ab.jpg

period correct LSD for the rear axle. These were OEM options in various jeeps and IHs over the years. It's used but in good shape. I've been hesitant to invest much into the stock axles of the 58 as they are not the beefiest, and not sure if I'll just blow them up with the sbc. But decided I going to try and keep the original D25/D44 combo and gearing an run an OEM style OD off the D18 PTO just like the CJ. I built the sbc350 in completely low performance stock configuration, and the granny low on the sm465 should help keep things crawling without much throttle. Plus, it's not a hard core trail rig...but some extra traction on the rear is always good. Doing diffs is tedious as the RandP will have to come out and then backlash all reset with the new carrier. If this all works, full floating the rear may also happen, but that is pricey!

[FINOCJ]

I think this question has been asked a few times, but wondering about exhaust manifold (ramshorn) gaskets for a sbcv8....I think they came from the factory without gaskets, but of course, the mating surfaces would have been pristine. For the short while I ran headers on the sbc, I ran a sort of 1-piece pressed cardboard gasket figuring cheap headers needed all the help they can get. But now that I am back to manifolds, wondering about going without any gaskets (the mating surfaces are in good shape, but they haven't necessarily been machined flat), or using just a bit of red high Temp exhaust RTV directly on a mating surface, or going and using a dry gasket....and if gasket is recommended, any particular preference? thanks

[FINOCJ]

I think the ramshorn exhaust manifolds look good - choosing the ceramic coating color was quite the stressful process, but I think its right on. It goes to the muffler shop on tues - I am going to pay shop to build the exhaust. Will have to rework the plug wires a bit....It gets loaded on a trailer next Sat to go to Montana.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2022/04/28/PXL_20220428_222130828.jpg
https://beamingpix.com/images/2022/04/28/PXL_20220428_222158416.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Damn...I couldn't have done this, especially given the time frame, but pricey....did dual exhaust exiting behind the rear wheels on each side. Trying figure out a y-pipe that stayed tucked up reasonably tight, seemed too much with the massive sm465, the front drive shaft etc. Kind of wondering if a crossover pipe should have been used, but rear driveshaft was an issue. Anyway, its quiet and now I can at least drive it around a bit while continuing to work on it.

https://beamingpix.com/images/2022/05/03/PXL_20220503_233120393.jpg
https://beamingpix.com/images/2022/05/03/PXL_20220503_233104670.jpg

[Jim]

Looks good!!!

So, would you take this on a casual mountain trail or are the plans asphalt only? Yea, I know the move might dictate the answer - but it's more of a philosophic question.

[FINOCJ]

Definitely want to put it in 4wd and use it. I have an LSD to eventually go in the rear D44. I'd also love to put an aftermarket set of leaf springs and some bigger tires! It gets loaded on trailer to go to MT on Fri, but thinking about where I can take it in the next couple days...but it's barely gone anywhere so not sure it's ready. Plus, there no floorpan trans cover yet....and it's dripping a bit from the RMS which really annoys me.

[Jim]

If you wish to get out the next day or so, I might be able to squeeze some hooky time...

Stirr'n the pot (but looking at the calendar [in advance for once!] - I have mid-day appointments the next two days - so I'm likely out).

EDIT: My Thursday appointment might be flexible to reschedule...

[FINOCJ]

I think the reality is I just don't have time even though I'd love to get out....Thurs would be the only chance....

[FINOCJ]

Was pretty exciting to see this happen today:

https://youtu.be/MBxaM3Xrc4U

[Jim]

Ah, the simple things in life!

I saw the six second vid - and well - no seeing it driving around the block so the wipers must be IT.

Does the washer fluid work? (I won't poke a stick - mine hasn't for years)

(it is in driving condition, yes - I thought it was)...


Your dust storm / highway deaths event made news down here.

[FINOCJ]

Ah, the simple things in life!

I saw the six second vid - and well - no seeing it driving around the block so the wipers must be IT.

Does the washer fluid work? (I won't poke a stick - mine hasn't for years)

(it is in driving condition, yes - I thought it was)...


Your dust storm / highway deaths event made news down here.

The OEM wiper system for these old willys is a vacuum motor mounted inside the engine bay on the firewall and a very convoluted and unique cable and pulley system up behind the dash. The vacuum motor didn't work (at least the best I could tell) when I got the willys - it can be rebuilt but I just didn't have the interest as even when in new condition, they still work rather marginally. So I sold it off to someone who wants to do an original style restoration, and used an aftermarket electric motor that comes with the proper adapter to fit the cable drive (its a common willy upgrade). Fortunately, the cables and pulleys in my wagon seem to be ok - many systems in old willys have long since deteriorated, corroded, jammed up with dust and dirt and whatnot and break the cable etc. The are complete aftermarket systems using solid push-pull bars and worm gear much like on later vehicles (like my cj), but I am going to give this a run for now. Hopefully I don't break a cable. As for windshield washer - I do not believe there was any provision for one on my willys. The cj originally had a small hand operated pump on the dash with reservoir on the front fender, and squirter on the center of the cowl...but I've never even tried to make it operational. The dash mounted handpump was broken when I got it and the reservoir was completely deteriorated and wouldn't hold fluid....I have thought about replacing the pump with electric and using some generic plastic reservoir, but guess its just REALLY low on my priority list. Overall, the wagon engine and trans etc seems to be running pretty well...when its really hot out, the carb is boiling fuel and I still have some seat brackets to make and finish the floorpans etc, but been focused on the house and getting the cj ready for Leadville. The CJ seems ready to go now, so starting to focus back on the willys. Going get a phenolic spacer to put under the carb, install an overdrive and get the interior wrapped up by winter!

[Jim]

Your carb boiling reminds me of an issue with my 68 ford (302 v8). What does yours have for carb heat?

My ford used exhaust gas passing from one side to the other through the intake manifold to heat the carb. I do not recall any temp operated valve - it was always "on". Trying to solve the issue I ended up putting a brass spacer (blocker) between the head and intake manifold to block the exhaust gas passage. It was blown apart - too much pressure.

The system used a restricted exhaust down-tube on one side to create a pressure differential have exhaust pass through the intake to the other exhaust side. In my case the restricton (a smaller tube fitted inside of the main down tube) had collapsed - forcing almost all of the exhaust from one side of the motor through the intake manifold passages to the other side - excessively heating the carb in the process.

I ended up pulling the exhaust from the car (exhaust manifold back). The down tubes looked good / perfect / the same on both sides - but tapping an open palm to each side - the echo was vastly different. A hack saw cut of each showed the inner pipe collapse and the problem. New exhaust system was the answer.

Perhaps the issue might tickle your mind to cure your boiling problem.

[FINOCJ]

My ford used exhaust gas passing from one side to the other through the intake manifold to heat the carb. I do not recall any temp operated valve - it was always "on".

Yes - it has a similar exhaust gas carb heater passageway.....A lot of people block them off like you tried, and I remember thinking about what to do with it last fall, but now I cannot remember what I decided to do when I put the intake on. Trying to go through my assembly pictures to see what I might have done. The cj has the passages blocked - but with a manual choke, I was less concerned about managing cold starts. The sbc has the early style thermo-coil choke, and with cold Montana winters, I think I might have been concerned about getting the coil to heat up enough to pull off the choke. If that is the case, I made a mistake, as this thing generates enough heat that winter starts won't be much of an issue after a couple minutes warm up. But I am not wanting to pull the intake manifold only to find I already blocked it! Going to start with the insulating spacer, and if that doesn't work, I'll move on to blocking the intake exhaust passageway.

[FINOCJ]

A little mod....The seat bracket I made last year just wasn't quite working out in terms of the amount of ramp or tilt angle on the seat - it was just very flat bottom. Here is the bracket from last year and the seat mounted on it.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/31/PXL_20210731_232051224.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/30/PXL_20210731_001559030.jpg

I tried putting some spacers under it to tilt it back a bit, but never could get it right. So I cut the bracket apart, and hack fabricated in some more rearward tilt....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/10/PXL_20220810_221238668.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/11/PXL_20220811_162951183.jpg

Way better now, and without the spacer under the bracket, its a rock solid mount to the slider whereas before there was just a bit of slop or rock - not much, but just a bit annoying. Can now make the passenger seat to match....

[Jim]

Nice - bonus is that you have a nice "glove box" under the seat too!

Does the storage box go through to the pass side (or is there a driveshaft hump blocking passage)?

After looking at the pic - I see transmission sticking out. You have some "doghouse" removed?

[FINOCJ]

The glove box does go all the way through to one under the passenger seat, but the floor does pinch up where the trans tunnel is...so it's really more like two separate compartments.
As for the 'doghouse'....I still haven't fabricated the floorpan cover for the transmission. I am currently working on installing the final piece of the drivetrain - an external PTO warn overdrive like I have on my CJ, and until that is complete with shifter linkage etc, I don't want to do the floorpan cover. I don't mind driving it around as is, but Jen would like the trans cover, so that justified expediting the OD purchase.

[Jim]

Easy cover in a pinch... a rubber floormat, cut shift lever holes, trim, fasten, done!

Air tight for some warm winter driving. Possibly some sound deadening.

[FINOCJ]

Time to build the front passenger seat mount....but of course, given my slightly compulsive nature for symmetry, I had to be absolutely certain the driver seat was how I wanted it. After getting the ramp angle the way I liked, it was still a bit off-center behind the steering wheel. There isn't a set of perpendicular or parallel lines in the entire wagon - in the front, the door angle inward towards the front, the top slants in as well, the 2-piece windshield makes an angle from one side to the other, the dash is not vertical, etc - so finding good reference points and measurements is difficult....As best I could tell, the driver seat needed to shift outward 3/4-1" to be nicely centered behind the wheel - unfortunately, the brackets I made didn't quite allow for the full shift, so I ended up moving them the maximum I could without re-making the bracket which was just a smidge over 1/2" - guess that'll do, hopefully 1/4" won't matter too much....now on to the passenger seat....

Much like the driver side, it was important to me to not trash the original mounting set-up in case I (or someone down the line) wanted to re-use the original seats (which I have and at times debate having re-done and re-using). I also didn't want to do any unnecessary modifications or drill too many holes etc - so like the drive side, I came up with a way to re-use the OEM floor mounts and then did have to drill two rear holes through the floor into the tool box area. The OEM seats had no rear hold down - just pivoted forward - and that was where I drew the line and made a solid back mount for the seat. Its hard mounted, so the seat will not tip forward - no latch or release mechanism - maybe I can figure out that later - but since I don't plan to have a rear seat for now, no need for passengers to have access other than via the tailgate.

I am stupid slow at fabricating, and also have some limitations with tools and knowledge. This probably would be more aesthetic - and probably easier - with round tubing and a bender (like the OEM brackets), but don't have one. I used what I had, and wanted it to match the driver side bracket as well, so basically angle iron and flat stock....maybe some 1" square tubing would have been better looking, but it is what it is....in the end, I am happy with the positioning etc....time to finish the OD install...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/16/PXL_20220814_220127089.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/16/PXL_20220816_225158148.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/16/PXL_20220816_225124613.jpg

[FINOCJ]

I might be getting the OD install nearing completion....Here is the basic idea:
Remove the D18 PTO cover and then remove the mainshaft gear:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220811_192246219.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220811_203435425.jpg

Then slide in the appropriate barrel gear and planetaries (the is the common 6-spline, 29-tooth set-up for a small case 2.46 D18)
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220818_152748483.jpg

Tighten the nut and install the diamond lock washer - in my case, the 'tab' on the washer is sitting in one of the correct recesses just below 3 o'clock:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220818_152846710.jpg

Then eff with the snap ring for WAY too long trying to get it in - go get a drink, check on the pets, dispose of a dead bird that flew into the window, surf you-tube to ensure you aren't doing it wrong, and then go back and finally get it in (and then quite possibly dance around in a disturbing way):
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220818_164711804.jpg

These are the fancy gasketed/sealing washers that you can get from AA to seal up the one mounting bolt (at 2 o'clock or so) that goes through the OD fluid reservoir and threads into the D18...the other 4 bolts don't go through the OD reservoir, but do thread into open holes that go into the D18 reservoir. I used thread sealer on the 4 and then the fancy washer and a dab of RTV around bolt neck - no expectations that it won't leak. I don't think I did or recognized the need to try and seal under the bolt head on the cj5 OD - so that is probably THE reason it likes to seep just a little.....http://earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?media/rolleyes.2776/full
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220818_171720876.jpg

The back end fully installed:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220818_172524859.jpg

As you can see, this unit is an old style front shift (won't work with a large case D18 or D20), and I think it actually makes life a bit easier for me in terms of linkage.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220813_184920089.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Although I've already cut out a pretty big hole for the sm465, I had to cut the passenger corner some more to find room to mount the shifter.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220813_161207085.jpg

I think quite a few people mount the OD shifter forward of the TC levers, but for my set-up, it seemed easier to keep it on the rear corner on the transmission. The top of the sm465 has lots of casting ridges, thicker sections and whatnot - so its not totally trivial to just use some angle iron and drill a couple holes mount to the top cover. The underside of the bracket has some spacers welded on to help make it nice and flat and square.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220818_175855648.jpg

With the 465/D18 combo mounted as high as I could get it, it is nice the linkage shaft doesn't have to go up and over anything. Additionally the shifter mount ends up pretty high on top the sm465, so the linkage can actually can angle slightly upward from the OD to the shifter and not interfere with the floor pan. One thing to be careful of - I wanted to move the shifter a bit further forward, but then the linkage begins to interfere with the front cap on the D18. IIRC, this photo is with the OD in direct drive (shifter is pulled back, which pushes the linkage forward), and it has nice clearance from the D18:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220818_175913629.jpg

And the short section of linkage going back to the OD:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/18/PXL_20220818_175929087.jpg

The shifter bracket may still need a little love - its not as 'rigid' as I would like. May still need to tweak the spacers or grind a bit of clearance with the 465 cover. But otherwise, it needs some time for the gasket seal to cure, then some fluid and a test drive. I still need to bend the various shifter canes to get everything just right. The sm465 will get bent away from the driver's knee and toward the center just a bit, the OD will get bent away from the passenger's knee and towards to the center, and the long D18 lever (front axle engagement) will need to bend outward/passenger some. Who wouldn't be excited to have 4 shifters!

[FINOCJ]

its all done! test drive went nicely. To cruise at 60mph at just around 2100 rpm (instead of 2800) is very nice! Took some bending of the shift levers to get everything to pass...when in 2wd (long D18 shifter forward), everything is super nicely spaced. It only gets a little tight when in 4wd (long D18 shifter pulled back) and with OD engaged (OD shifter forward). Its possible I could bend the long D18 shifter a bit further forward up under the dash a bit more - but I don't want to change the OD shifter as it seems just about perfect (maybe its just similar to my cj so it seems i can find naturally). If I have to pull the twin sticks for some reason I might try to get another inch, but until then, I can live with it. I also tried to bend the sm465 shifter cane a bit as well - it might have moved an inch inward (it doesn't touch my knee anymore in 1st) - but I guess I just didn't have long enough pipe extension or strong enough vice/fulcrum point and hold to get much done to it. In the pic, the sm465 is forward up in 2nd gear, and when it shifts down to the bottom in 3rd, its nicely adjacent to the OD shifter - not sure I really want it any closer to the OD as when its in 3rd there is comfortable space but easy to jump over to the OD.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2022/08/19/PXL_20220820_003447899.jpg
Time to make floor pan transmission cover....this could be difficult for me.

[FINOCJ]

I didn't want to fork over the money for new Yakima/Thule racks/bars etc, but recently I found a set of 66" bars with yakima raingutter towers for sale on CL just down the road from me. Price was right, so I bought them and added the 'hi-rise' spacers - I did test running the Yakima towers without the spacers, and the cross-bars will not clear the roof. I think the spacing for the height of the bars above the roof is just about right - certainly it doesn't need to be any higher - it could be an inch lower depending on usage. I carry kayaks and bikes on my racks mostly, and having them just a bit on the high side is good.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/10/07/PXL_20221008_012831675.jpg

[Jim]

Look'n good!

Montana has vehicle stickers? ...or is that a holdover from Colo?

Sprinkler blowout happened here today - cold weather is on the doorstep.

[FINOCJ]

sticker is old (1980 something?)
blew out sprinklers yesterday...there was some forecast for wet snow/rain in town here on Tues, but now its looking like the cool air and moisture will drop down further to the east with warmer temps and blue sky over Bozeman for another nice week.

[FINOCJ]

So back on Aug 19 I suggested it was time to make the transmission floorpan cover....3 months and a few failed attempts later, I Think this will work - I had to sort of work around a fundamental mistake with how I placed the engine and transmission. I probably should have shifted the engine/trans etc over to the passenger side 1-2 inches from where it is. I didn't do that because the GM starter motor starts to sit above the front driveshaft and front of the oil pan starts to get close to the front differential, so keeping things shifted a bit to the driver side helps with those clearances. I also wanted to keep the engine/trans/TC mounted as high as possible, which worked well in the current location. To move things passenger required either lower the entire set-up or massive floorpan modifications under the passenger seat to create TC clearance. Unfortunately, one of the things I overlooked is the unusually HUGE size of the sm465 transmission - especially its width - and how far out of center of the existing trans tunnel it would be, and how it creates foot space problems with the OEM gas pedal location etc. With through the floor pedals and frame rail mounted brake MC, there is not a lot of option to move or bend pedal to create much room....Anyway, I've already done a bit of modification to the pedals to create some room, and when driving it without a trans cover, there was just enough room, so I really had to struggle to build a cover that kept as much pedal room as possible, and some more pedal mods/tweaks are to come.....in hindsight, I would have dropped the entire drivetrain an inch or so, and tried to get it shifted and inch or so further passenger - or better yet, used the T18 trans sitting on my floor instead of the sm465, which is also a tough truck 4 speed, but is a couple inches narrower than the sm465 (I also like the gear ratio splits on the T18 better - but the plan at the time was that is supposed to go into the CJ).

Its not designer stylish, and still lots of work to finish it up with welds and paint etc. Thinking I probably cannot cleanly weld the thin sheet metal along the butt seams without burning through - so will probably create some strips to overlap the seams and 'spot' weld....I tried to build overlap flaps into the pieces so I wouldn't have butt-seams, but it got too complicated and beyond my ability, so I just made puzzle pieces to fit the spaces. I am also thinking of stripping front floorpan to fresh metal and trying to roll in some sort of heavy duty paint/bedlinerhttp://earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?media/ninja.2771/full/sound deadener type stuff that would also go over the cover and sort of cover up my ugly edges etc - no plans for carpet or anything like that for now.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/11/04/PXL_20221102_222156074.jpg

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/11/15/PXL_20221115_202056020.jpg

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/11/15/PXL_20221115_202107018.jpg

[DaveO]

Looks good!

[Jim]

Hot Dang! That looks wonderful. That's a solid step forward to the project - congrats!

[FINOCJ]

Think the transmission cover is essentially finished...I struggled with this a lot. Had at least 2 complete tossed away attempts and wasted a lot of sheetmetal, time, energy etc trying to make something functional. I still don't like it....but it works....I've been working on this for 3 months and honestly it feels like I should pretty much start all over again - its pretty rough when you see it in person. Trying to finish it up reasonably nice has been a problem as well. First, I did some metal filler to smooth out the seams and weld joints. As I wanted something with a bit more strength than traditional bondo style filler, I used a more epoxy based filler which turned out was quite difficult to work with, but provides a lot more joint strength - of course, then the cover didn't really want to flex and bend and form fit to floor like it did when first test fitting, so then ended up creating quite a lot of distortion 'encouraging' it to fit. Then I did roll-on bedliner as I wanted to do all the front floorboards with it soon, so I didn't use a finishing glaze over the filler as the rough bedliner was going to hide some of the irregularity. But I didn't like the bedliner - especially when I envisioned it across the entire floorboard area , so removed it and the hassles that came with it. I should have then redone the filler and finished it nicely, but I went with some random can of old black spray paint on shelf until I figure out how I want to finish the floorboards and figure it can just look a bit rough. I sprayed the underside with rubber undercoating.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/11/28/PXL_20221128_201604924.jpg

Also, trying make some sort of trim rings and boots etc is still a bit of work in progress. Currently, the 3 shifter combo area has a sheet of rubber with slits cut into for the shifters held under a trim ring, but seems the rubber is not quite the right type as it wants to tear at the ends more than stretch. Not sure if I can make much of an overboot to accommodate the 3 shifters....the primary trans shifter is in the works - think I can make a decent single shifter boot out of leather and a trim ring. We'll see - its not super critical as not much air flow comes through that....its the 3-shifter area that is most critical as it really funnels a flow of air right into the passenger seat (i.e. Jen wasn't very happy with it).

I also modified the brake pedal again to create a even bit more room for my foot to access the gas pedal. At this point, the pedal pad is longer the limiting issue - its the actual pedal arm that goes down through the floor. I may also tweak the mount bracket for the gas pedal to move it a bit driver so its more under my big toe instead of over under the smaller toes - but we'll see how it feels for a bit more. I moved the brake pedal about an inch driver, but probably lost about half an inch on the passenger side of the pedal with the new cover (my foot used to just rest against the side of the transmission) - so maybe a net gain of half an inch or just a tad more. Every little bit helps - at least I don't tend to wear too chunky of footwear.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2022/11/28/PXL_20221128_201639130.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Here is one of the next big projects on the 58 (there are a couple other projects in the works as well).....D44 powr-lok LSD.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/04/PXL_20230404_154532186.jpg

Not 100% sure I want to run this. The wagon is not a hard wheeler, but sometimes it's hard to get anywhere without a bit of traction. Also I want it to be useable for winter road driving. I ran a tracloc in my CJ7, and in cj5 prior to the eaton selectable, and never had any issue with them on winter roads, but they were pretty useless from a traction standpoint. Obviously a selectable would work, but given the long term uncertainty about keeping the OEM axles, not a route I want to go now. Thinking this powr-lok would kind of find the sweet spot, and be authentic (period correct) for the build?

Plus, having just done a D27 unit, hoping this will be quick and easy assembly and stored on the shelf ready to go. Quick inspection shows this used unit to be in good shape- clutch disks and plates are much better than the used ones I replaced on the D27 unit - think I can reuse all these components as is.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/04/PXL_20230404_162711343.jpg

As I learned when doing the D27 unit, there are only curved Belleville plates on the D44 unit, no Belleville discs like on the D27 unit. Also, all of the flat plates are the same thickness - no 'thin' ones like the D27 unit.

So, finishing cleaning and assemble.....two things:
1) going to need some 19spline short/cut-down shafts for set-up
2) I have to figure out the 'buttons' that go in the cross shafts. The front axle set up doesn't use these....I know it's standard for tapered 44s, but it's new to me. Should I install these now during assembly? Seems like they will fall out? Should I wait and install later when/if the unit goes into the carrier and the axle shaft are slid in?

[FINOCJ]

So got some cut down shorty shafts from an OWF member (thanks JABJEEP!):
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/12/PXL_20230412_184620734.jpg


After doing the standard clean up, dry fitting everything together:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/12/PXL_20230412_194307226.jpg


Also I think I figured out the buttons (axle shaft spacers) hold the cross shafts together using a roll pin between the two buttons. They actually make assembly easier than the front D27 unit without the spacers as they help hold all that together (My cj5 has the 1piece D44, so no buttons there either).
Assembling one of these units was much easier the second time around after building the D27 unit! Ready for red loctite and bolts:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/12/PXL_20230412_204520622.jpg


Ziploc'd and ready for a later install....although I really don't want to disassemble much of the 58 before RFTH, having this sitting around is going to be tempting to want to install....need to look for a rebuild/bearing kit.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/12/PXL_20230412_213822722.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Time for one of those little things that leads to interesting questions and turns into a lot of time etc....

the driver side door wasn't opening from the inside (stopped working sometime last fall) - works perfect from the outside, so I just open the window to get to the outside handle to get out....
Additionally, when it did work, there were some odd features.... to open the door, you would pull pack on the driver site handle, but the handle on the passenger side opens the door by pushing forward... Just seemed 'unconventional'....Here is the driver door (the passenger is the mirror image).....what I learned from some on OWF is that my handles were installed wrong, and need to rotate 90 (90 CW on the driver side) so they point forward and down. Additionally, the handles should pull back (on the low side) to open the door....in other words, the driver side should rotate CW and passenger side should rotate CCW to open (and the spring load will return it)...

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/25/PXL_20230418_205222841.jpg

After learning about escutcheons and how to get the handles off so I can get to the mechanisms inside the door panel, I found the handle to be broken and possibly why things are a bit weird....

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/25/PXL_20230425_213314460.jpg

So, the good news....the passenger side door now seems correct... the handle needed to be re-clocked so it points down and forward, and when looking at the door and handle, it must be turned CCW to open the door. so with the handle pointed down and forward, to open it, you need to pull the bottom end of the handle down and rearward.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/25/PXL_20230426_013832473.jpg


to open
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/25/PXL_20230426_013910961.jpg


But the the driver side (the broken side) also rotates CCW when looking at the handle to open....Here I attached the handle in the correct forward and down orientation
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/25/PXL_20230426_014128201.jpg

but to open it, the handle must move forward and up (turn CCW)....I got the door latch working perfectly, but it seems the rotation direction is wrong....Not exactly sure what is wrong with the mechanism - best guess is a passenger side mechanism (CCW) was put on the driver side (which should be CW) somewhere along the way, and to do that, the linkage rod was flipped around to the other direction which quite possibly reverses the way it twists/rotates such that it opens the door latch? I'll let you know more once I get the current one out and can compare directly. To get the entire mechanism out of the door, the window regulator needs to be removed first, and I have been waiting on that for a second set of hands to ensure I don't break the glass.

But also made a trip to the local Willys salvage yard (that would be duffer's - thanks John!) and although we did not find a good handle replacement, I did get a driver side door mechanism (and a good set of escutcheons):
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/27/PXL_20230428_030340724.jpg

and yes, it rotates clockwise - which is not what mine does. I think I can get my damaged handle to work with a little love, but may end up getting an aftermarket one.....now to get the window and regulator loosened/removed....at least everything is getting a bit of cleaning and some fresh lubrication..

[Jim]

Thanks for the pictures!

The handles are "pot" metal, yes? Any chance you could weld up the broken part and then grind it to be what it should be?

[FINOCJ]

Thanks for the pictures!

The handles are "pot" metal, yes? Any chance you could weld up the broken part and then grind it to be what it should be?

Yup...handles are por metal ...from what I've read on OWF, not many have had success welding it up. Possibly some sort of epoxy filler could work....the underside has a square recess where it sits on/over the square stud on the linkage mechanism....my damaged one is completely rounded out in addition to the crack. Might be able to make it work - might not be worth it.

[Jim]

Hmmm - any thought to cover the door side square 'stud' with a removable, thin, tape and then fill the handle hole with epoxy and then slide the handle onto the stud. Yep - epoxy will ooze out (protect surfaces as needed), wait for it to cure and then force pull the handle from the stud. Remove tape and see if the new and improved setup will hold up to use.

[FINOCJ]

Hmmm - any thought to cover the door side square 'stud' with a removable, thin, tape and then fill the handle hole with epoxy and then slide the handle onto the stud. Yep - epoxy will ooze out (protect surfaces as needed), wait for it to cure and then force pull the handle from the stud. Remove tape and see if the new and improved setup will hold up to use.
that is pretty much what I was wondering....got the linkage mechanism swapped out today with the help of jen - not sure we did it by the book - think you are supposed to remove the window and regulator out the top of the door, but we went with the unbolt the regulator support bar and push it this way and that, and shimmy the linkage mechanism this way and that, roll the window up and down to different positions, and then cuss and swear and get some various fingers caught before finding the magic spot and it fall out the bottom! And the good news, the new to me salvaged linkage seems to work just right!

[FINOCJ]

Doing a few different projects all at the same time, and they are seem to hit roadblocks so then i jump over to a different and repeat....first major one done though - got the door handles working right! The new to me interior mechanism works perfect and the door opens when pulling the handle rearward....I did a bit of work on the cracked handle and got it good enough to work for now - it might not last for long, and its definitely a bit loose/sloppy, but I'll be gentle with it. I even repositioned the window handle such that both the driver and passenger doors are perfect mirror images - of course, I don't know exactly what position the window handle should be in? The pic is with widow up/closed.... I can reclock it (and the passenger side) to any of the other 3 positions if there was some reason to....its sort of a small thing, but really rewarding to have the door handles figured out....next up in this vein is getting the keyed exterior door handle locks functional. Key for them are long gone before me, but basically new remove the old lock cylinder and put in a new one - no we'll see how difficult that little statement turns out to be...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/29/PXL_20230429_172850125.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Next thing that got done is the receiver hitch.....this really started out as a different project that grew into a receiver hitch mount and eventual integrated gas tank skid plate....Going back to where it started - Trying to get some tow points on the 58....as it's not a hardcore wheeler, I do want to keep the OEM bumpers and look realizing they are not for abuse and approach/dept angle are not ideal. But at the same time, even just sliding into a snow bank in the winter, it helps to have some tow points....
For the rear, was initially thinking on the bottom of the frame rail behind the shackle in a couple different arrangements....the biggest concern (I thought) was just making sure the hook was low enough for a strap to clear the bottom of the body and bumper to minimize damage if a strap was pulled hard and tight.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/06/PXL_20230406_223821302.jpg


https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/04/06/PXL_20230406_223907742.jpg

But this lead to the realization that there is no rear cross-member on the wagon frame - like it was designed without one from the factory. The rear-most crossmember is in front of the gas tank, just a bit behind the rear axle position. So that got me worried that having a hook on the tail end of the frame rail could easily lead to a bent frame rail if the pull was much off angle of from the long direction of the rail. These old C-channel frames are not all that strong.

So that lead to the idea trying to strengthen or tie the two rail ends together in some way - basically a sort of cross-member right at the rear of the frame rails. The hardcore crowd would probably weld in some square tubing, but I went a bit more moderate - I bolted in a receiver hitch across the rails. Having it removeable also makes accessing and dropping the gas tank much easier. The receiver will both help tie the tails for the frame rails together, and it can also be a tow point, it also provides some gas tank and rear bumper protection, and maybe one day I'll actually pull the raft trailer with the wagon. Its not super hard core recovery spot, but plenty good for this usage. The cross-tube of the receiver is sitting up tight against the bottom of the frame rails, and the receiver hitch will be just below rear bumper....clearance with the bumper could be an issue for a trailer tongue depending on a hitch ball riser, but any minor drop hitch should be fine - and this is not planned to do a lot of towing (if ever hauls anything) and a hitch extension could be used. I also hope to use this as the rear mount for a gas tank skid plate that is in the works....

I think it fits nicely and isn't too obtrusive - the back end is sitting a bit high on jackstands in these pics:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/08/PXL_20230508_234038400.jpg

Primarily intend to use a hitch pin through the receiver as the tow point, or a soft shackle to the pulling line - this keeps the lever arm of the receiver to the shortest if the pull is a bit off-angle.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/08/PXL_20230508_232726629.jpg

[FINOCJ]

So the second part of the hitch project is to use the hitch cross-tube as a mount for a skid plate that will protect the gas tank....mounting the rear is somewhat straight forward as just mounting it into the hitch tube - TBD whether I will try drill and tap into the 1/4" tube, or drill and weld thread inserts (stronger but more hassle and potential to go wrong).

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/08/PXL_20230508_233058377.jpg

The front is a bit trickier....The plate will have to bend upward both for mounting purposes and to protect the front of the tank....It may be possibly to mount it into the OEM round cross-member, or I may be able to mount some sort of cross-bar across the frame rails, behind the big OEM one, and use that to mount the plate to (in that case, the cross-bar might be integrated into the plate and just bolt in at the frame rails)....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/08/PXL_20230508_232940882.jpg

So this is my first prototype....This is a good start...made from a single piece of carboard - so in theory, no welded joints, just bends, but TBD if i can really bend the 3/16". Going to try scoring it with an angle grinder cut-off wheel about 1/2-2/3 of the way though, the bend it and weld up the seam.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/09/PXL_20230509_160547884.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/09/PXL_20230509_160318970.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/09/PXL_20230509_160059770.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/09/PXL_20230509_160110873.jpg

The front of the pan is still TBD - the current test piece has a flat front with square bottom edge that is not the most 'slide-y', most likely to get hung up on something. But that edge is reasonably high - as in its somewhat protected behind the rear axle. I will probably try making a 2nd version with a more sloped front and something like a 45 angle...this potentially could also complicate the mounting to the round bar.
As for round bar mounting - I think mounting directly along the bottom of the round bar can work. Drill in 4 holes and try to either tap or weld inserts (no idea how thick that tube is - guessing its 3/16" at most?). Putting u-bolts over the bar is also doable....no matter the method, trying to mate flat 2-D surface to the round bar is going to be a be rough on the aesthetics (for some reason I am worried about what it would like like under there?). Maybe a 'saddle' with the u-bolt would be nice - but unnecessary complications?

[FINOCJ]

Here is the next version of the skid plate...I think this is the one I will go with....sloping in the front such that it won't get hung up as easy...
upslope in the front up to the round cross member....if I don't want the side angle on the back portion, I could do this with only one bend. The tank sides get a bit of extra protection with the sides bent up, and if I was using thinner plate, it would help with rigidity...but not sure it's gonna matter with 3/16".
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/09/PXL_20230509_190712962.jpg

https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/09/PXL_20230509_190557854.jpg

I took the front edge to the front of the cross member to make access to the fastening hardware a bit easier. Also means any frontal contact would be pushing the skid into the bar and not pulling it against the hardware.... Still debating on drilling into the tube vs using a u bolt set up.

https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/09/PXL_20230509_190607636.jpg

https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/09/PXL_20230509_190510899.jpg

[Jim]

With this skid plate metal coming up at an angle from under the tube - what do you envision / how do you think you'll connect the forward edge?

Your photo (yes, a basic mock-up) gives the thought to muck sitting in the valley at the front edge of the tube / atop the skid metal - and causing rust.

So, depending upon how you plan to connect - this concern might not happen.


In other news - great news on the door opener and window crank! Looks good.

[FINOCJ]

Your photo (yes, a basic mock-up) gives the thought to muck sitting in the valley at the front edge of the tube / atop the skid metal - and causing rust.

that extra bit would get trimmed off once everything is finalized.

[FINOCJ]

With this skid plate metal coming up at an angle from under the tube - what do you envision / how do you think you'll connect the forward edge?

Been thinking about this a bit more.....
1) The 'simplest' - or maybe just most straight forward? - is to mount it directly into the round cross-member.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/09/PXL_20230509_190510899.jpg

There is some aspect about this mount that I don't love - but not sure why it seems a bit off. Might be that I am concerned about drilling and welding thread inserts (while laying under the vehicle with poor access and visibility) into that tube and keeping the thread inserts aligned properly without a flat surface for reference. the concern over the front edge is also there - but not a huge issue - I could drill out a few holes to help it drain etc.

2) basically, the front slope is going to be around 45 degrees if mounted behind the cross tube, and I could use some angle iron like this and weld it to the skid:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/11/PXL_20230511_164446614.jpg

That also makes the bottom of side of the angle flat and can be easily mounted to the frame rail (larger footprint and backing plate needed at mount):
It's about 44" between the framerails, 28 of which is reinforced with the front of the skid plate. That leaves about 8" on each side for the angle to bridge to the framerail. That is a long 44" across with no additional mounts or support other than the plate itself, and the mount at the frame rails is not super robust....

https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/11/PXL_20230511_163926173.jpg

3) Last option might be a bit cleaner and stronger....but...weld some angle onto the tube.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/11/PXL_20230511_164005508.jpg

The angle would be pre fitted, drilled and have thread inserts welded prior to welding to crosstube. Then I could tack weld in place, remove the rest of the plate and weld-er-up along both edges...The bottom of the angle would definitely be a bit of a rust trap - maybe drill some drain holes in it.

[Jim]

I like the weld-a-mount bracket onto the axle tube route. It would provide extra rigidity to the axle tube (not a required item for this vehicle's use). It would ensure you're not drilling through the axle tube for a screw mount directly onto the axle tube (something I learned from you a while back regarding persistent oil drips - through hole vs blind hole fasteners).

[FINOCJ]

I like the weld-a-mount bracket onto the axle tube route.

FWIW - the round tube is not the axle tube (as it would move with the suspension), but rather the OEM rear cross-member.....why they went round - I don't know? Its location is above and slightly rearward of the rear axle position....
thinking I am going to do try out #3 for a bit....I like that I can pre-drill and mount the thread insert (or just weld a nut) into the angle bracket before its in place. Its easier to do tedious tricky welding on the bench rather than under the rig. I will still have to weld under the rig, but its a more forgiving arrangement and much higher margin for error and still be usable (maybe not pretty).

[FINOCJ]

okay - almost done with the fuel tank skid project...its in painting stage and laying on thicker coats and giving it some extra dry time.
started with this 3/16" steel plate 3'x3':
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/16/PXL_20230509_222314074.jpg

cut and bent it up to this - I could weld the seams more - just went with stitch welds to ensure minimal warpage at first, but think its plenty strong:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/16/PXL_20230516_164925616.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/16/PXL_20230516_164938008.jpg

The bends look really clean from the outside:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/16/PXL_20230516_180347667.jpg

Here is how I 'bent' it....its really cut and bend, which does weaken it compared to some sort of press brake - but I just don't have a better way to deal with 3/16" thick steel:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/10/PXL_20230510_210536279.jpg

made up a bit of a bending brake with some clamps and extra steel plate:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/10/PXL_20230510_211506961.jpg

and oftentimes some extra leverage and weight was needed (both Jen and I would do this together):
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/17/PXL_20230514_015806504.jpg

To strengthen the bend, weld up the inside, and the outside of the bend looks really clean:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/10/PXL_20230510_210554046.jpg

I am sure some with good welding skills could just cut the pieces and weld the seams nicely for less work and a decent look - but this worked for me.

The rear mount is easy going into the bottom of the hitch cross-tube....but the front mount on the round bar cross-member was a bit trickier. Here is the front mount that I welded to the round frame cross-member....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/16/PXL_20230515_213237637.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/05/16/PXL_20230515_213255981.jpg

I welded in 3/8-16 threaded inserts from the backside before welding it to the frame. Had to clean up the tube and then sprayed weldable primer to try and protect it a bit as well as on the backside of the bracket. Welding it to the frame was a bit tricky as expected. The angle bracket is only 1/8" and no idea what the round tubing thickness was - guessing its 3/16. My first couple weld attempts were a bit cold, but got better after turning up the heat. Trying to fit me with hood up in there where I could see anything and be able to move my arms enough to move the gun was a PITA as expected. Probably should have dropped the hitch and tank to get better access to the rear side, but I made it work as is. I might be able to get a bit of paint back inside there via the holes....

The back end will mount into the hitch cross-tube....its 1/4" thick and just tapped 3/8-16 thread into it. If it doesn't hold, I can drill it out and weld in inserts from the front side. It looks really clean when installed...if I can get it cleaned up, scuffed up and painted this afternoon, I might be able to install it on Thurs before heading out for a few day river trip....

[FINOCJ]

A few updates....
Spent some time working on wiring....found the alternator issue was mostly the excitation wire (that goes through the idiot light) had a break in the circuit. Got that cleaned up...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/06/19/PXL_20230619_213325802.jpg

Next, while under there, it was time to get a switched ignition power fuse box installed for the aux circuits....also got a ground post put in to make grounding some stuff a bit easier than finding random holes in the dash/firewall...there is a cover for the box as well
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/06/19/PXL_20230619_213255223.jpg

I've been working on my fuel guage system for a few weeks....finally found the problem....the float on the sending unit has a crack and it was filled up with fuel. I happen to have another brass float I got from Walcks some couple years ago. Resistance checks out nicely on the sending unit so hopefully that will solve the problem. You can see the crack just below the light reflection...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/06/19/PXL_20230620_003219706.jpg

The OEM gauge is fried (not sure it was that way, but I certainly finished it off it there was any chance of it working:oops:, and while I have an omix replacement, they are so cheap and useless, and I was having issue with keeping it from shorting to the speedo housing, I am just going to go with an aftermarket gauge that matches my tri-gauge set-up, and hang it on the bottom of the dash.

https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/06/21/PXL_20230621_182645395.jpg

Unfortunately, its really hard to test the 'calibration' of the gauge without full install.....This one is reading 1/4 tank too high, which is the worse direction to be off but at least it gives me some reference. When you get to the 1/2 tank mark, its time to think about finding gas station. These wagon gas tanks are supposedly around 15gal, but it seems the last 2 gal are hard to suck up out of the tank, so it's more like a 13 gal tank of usable fuel. Probably doesn't help the pickup doesn't quite reach the bottom....Not ready to tackle this right now, but at some point I need to figure out more fuel capacity beside carrying an extra jerry can. Definitely if/when I go TBI, I may look for a tank option with internal fuel pump for TBI.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/06/21/PXL_20230620_003853542.jpg

[FINOCJ]

As I've mentioned in previous posts, there really isn't a front or rear cross-member near either end of the the frame rails on the wagon, and finding good recovery points that don't risk bending the frame rail on an off-angle pull is a tricky. The receiver tow hitch in the back will hopefully help on one end, and now it is time to make a front cross-member with recovery point - and of course, keeping the classic styling of the front splash pan/valence that goes under the grill and over the frame horns was also key. I kind of copied how Chuck installed a cross-member when he helped me rebuild the front frame horns on my CJ. It uses 3x1.5x3/16 rectangular tubing. The 3" height fits nicely inside the frame rails, and in a perfect world, I would have gone for something a bit more square, but the saginaw box wouldn't allow for anything with more 'width'. Another advantage of the 1.5" width is that the tubing sits just in front of the spring/shackle hanger rivet, so I didn't have to deal with clearance that in any way. This is the basic idea:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/07/16/PXL_20230715_210714357.jpg

First thing for this to fit, and even just to test fit, I had to relocate the front bumper bracket mounting bolt back 1.5" on both sides....and of course i did then weld up the old hole:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/07/16/PXL_20230715_210235736.jpg

After cutting the tubing to fit lengthwise, I welded on a tow/shackle point on to the cross-member. Ideally, I think the tow point should be mounted with the long axis horizontal for the most strength, but due to the geometry of my layout, I welded it vertically. I need the tow point to drop below the frame/crossmember so it can be accessed below the bumper, and I just could not figure out a better solution with any other tow point/brackets etc. One thing I like about this piece and the way its mounted, it moves the tow point forward and down - even if its only 1/2-1", its moving it in the right direction to make it a bit more accessible.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/07/16/PXL_20230715_215250151.jpg

With it welded in - jen said it looked like me with a big nose:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/07/16/PXL_20230716_013405162.jpg

Good news, once its all painted and the bumper and splash pan go back on, most everything is hidden nicely:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/07/16/PXL_20230716_224604647.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/07/16/PXL_20230716_224624830.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/07/16/PXL_20230716_224902139.jpg

[FINOCJ]

While I've tried to keep the 70CJ pretty time period authentic....seems the 58 keeps getting more and more upgrades.....this is the easy part bolting stuff on, but now trying to figure out RPVs in the MC....while I was at it, I pulled the knuckles to stud, replaced kingpin bearings, new knuckle seals, new TREs, and a new drag link, and had to work new lug bolts as well (will be loosing the classic left hand thread on the driver side :frown:).....

https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/08/30/PXL_20230831_000201762.jpg

https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/01/PXL_20230901_233215239.jpg

Did keep the Spicer joint tag....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/08/30/PXL_20230831_002718767.jpg

So, now time to disassemble the outlet fittings on the MC and see if I can find and remove the RPV on the front circuit (that is supposed to be in there - but not 100% sure based on some of the issues and pedal feel when driving)....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/02/PXL_20230902_214625303.jpg

Eventually the rear will be getting upgraded drums, but ready to be moving on from this project for now as soon as its driveable....I've got some CJ repairs to make after the Colo trip last month, and need to get it done before next months Utah trip....

[FINOCJ]

So the MC did have the RPV in it....small little 'duckbill' style valve.....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/03/PXL_20230903_155051719.jpg

No way to tell what the valve pressure is for these - but its supposed to be 10lbs for drum circuits. I didn't check the rear circuit, but it should have one in it as well... Since I am keeping drums on the rear, I'll just leave it as is. Removed the front RPV and going without it for now - in theory I should use a 2lbs RPV with disc brakes that have the MC mounted equal to or lower than the caliper (mine is frame mounted with through the floor pedal)....but test drives are coming out really positive and not sure it'll be an issue. I'll call Willwood this week to see if they have 2lbs duckbill RPVs, as maybe for off-road use I'll notice some issue, but for now I think its fine. overall, the braking improvement seems dramatically better. Its not power assisted, but the pedal is good and you just have to push hard. Previously, the pedal was a bit soft, and you'd just sort of floor the pedal and it wouldn't do a lot of stopping.

[Jim]

Looks nice!

Is the disc brake conversion a "standard" kit or did you need to design the mounting plate?

The brake master cylinder certainly is clean - for being under body.

[FINOCJ]

Basically, the set up is typical GM 1/4 ton disc brake stuff for something like an S-10 pickup/blazer. This stuff all works on a D25/27/30/44 interchangeably. The one 'special' piece is the caliper bracket that is custom made for this application....that I bought from a specialty old jeep supplier. The calipers, discs, pads etc all can be had at the local auto parts store. Basically, there are two options for disc brakes on these old jeeps - the 1/4ton set-up I used which places the rotor outside the wheel hub and thus makes servicing the brakes much easier, but isn't as 'big'. The other set-up is the traditional 70s era GM 1/2 ton kit as found on full size pickups etc. That is the most common swap as it uses all standard GM parts including the caliper brackets. No custom parts, it uses bigger rotors and calipers (knuckle and wheel clearance can be an issue), but it also requires the rotors to be pressed on to the back-side of the wheel hub, so servicing of the rotors is more difficult. It also requires the wheel hub to have been machined flat on the backside, and that wasn't typical OP for early jeep hubs - although it turned out on mine, once I pressed the drums off the hubs, I found I had machined hubs anyway. Not sure if that was original, or if someone replaced them along the way. Anyway, I just like this more modern, 'outboard' disc set-up, and figure if the brakes were good enough for a 90s S10 pickup going 70mph, it'll be good enough for the old WIllys. The jeep supplier indicated that if I went bigger than 33s, I should consider the 1/2 ton kit.....Currently running 30s, and would like to run 32s or so, but that would be the biggest. So far, it seems GREAT!

As for the MC, its obviously not OEM. OEM was a single reservoir set-up....I replaced that 4 years ago with the dual res Willwood set-up....its standard Willwood part, but it needs a specialty bracket to mount in the OEM location which I got from the same old jeep supplier. I kind of new back then that I was headed this direction. The good news, just a couple of specialty parts/brackets that are not wear items, and the rest is pretty much standard 90s GM stuff - still available a lot of places.

[FINOCJ]

I have been having fun with my Dualmatic hubs....I kind of like these hubs for their uniqueness, time period and simplicity. Plus, dualmatic was made in Longmont. 'Back in the day' they were a competitor to Warn and Selectro and Cutlass etc - can you imagine all these specialty suppliers that made 4x4 lock-out hubs back in the day, and now, there are almost no rigs that run them anymore. The ol' 'lock-in and air down' doesn't apply like it used to. But anyway, the simplistic nature also comes at a cost that they are not the strongest hubs ever. Unfortunately, mine have have a crack in them, and its probably time to move on from them - as spotted on our trail ride yesterday:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230915_205510638.jpg

and where there is one crack - seems like more are nearby - after opening up the hub, 3 radial cracks at 2, 6 and 11 oclock:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230915_205712475.jpg

Can't be 100% sure, but guessing over tightening may have been part of the problem...you can see the deformation to the aluminum top cover from someone before me:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230915_222408822.jpg

Seems a lot of people have trouble with the hub mounting bolts coming loose (most often with Warn hubs on full float rear axles), and that may have lead to over tightening - I never had an issue with them loosening, but maybe someone in the past did. It is interesting to note that the crack hub also had hub bolts with too short of a shoulder section:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230915_223508582.jpg

It really is important that the hub bolt shoulder should be long enough to protrude through the hub housing and into the wheel hub - the wheel hub thread is about 1/4" recessed into the hub - and thus is designed to accept the bolt shoulder, which acts a bit like a stud to ensure there is a strong connection between the the locking hub and the wheel hub....should look more like this (from the non-cracked hub):
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230915_223419059.jpg

in case anyone is really interested in dualmatic hubs, there are some variations in them over the years - I used to have a good link to the 2a page that discussed the variations - but at a minimum, you can see some of the differences here - although my hubs looked the same on the outside, they are not identical and from slightly different variations:
the one on the right (which is the cracked one), has a later heavier, beefier casting:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230915_211946107.jpg

The star gear in the middle is pretty similar - the one from the heavier hub might be ever so slightly beefier - or at least maybe the ends haven't seen as much wear, and it stands some tiny fraction taller?
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230915_220928337.jpg

And lastly, the heavier unit also uses a bearing for the splined axle sleeve/gear to spin on as opposed to a bushing:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230915_220948736.jpg

just to show the 'earliest' version - and it was pretty weak - a single lever design that didn't last all that long before going to two lever/cam design:
http://www.ewillys.com/wp-content/uploads2/2022/05/dualmatic-first-hub-single-lever-g503-650x487.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/dualmatic-first-hub-single-lever-g503.jpg

too bad the 'beefier' unit is the one that cracked....think I can get some time period correct Warn M2 hubs to replace these....

[Jim]

To operate the two lever design - the lever lifts at one end, spins 180 degrees and then recesses back where it was originally - with the lever at a bit of an offset at its pivot end which allows the pin to ride high or "more-out" of the unit - not contacting the inner star (or the pin rides low or "more-in" to the unit with the pin engaging the star?

How does the lever setup work on the one-lever design?

[FINOCJ]

To operate the two lever design - the lever lifts at one end, spins 180 degrees and then recesses back where it was originally
yes



with the lever at a bit of an offset at its pivot end which allows the pin to ride high or "more-out" of the unit - not contacting the inner star (or the pin rides low or "more-in" to the unit with the pin engaging the star?
not quite....when you turn the lever 180 degress you are turning a large cam on the inside of the hub cover which does indeed change how the cam interacts with the star gear:
the cams are notched on one side....when the levers are in 'free' mode, the notched side of the cams are inward....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230916_015009156.jpg

when the cams are in locked-in mode, the notched side of the cam is out, and the solid side in inward:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230916_015030583.jpg

So that start gear is basically a splined sleeve that goes over the end of the axle shaft - it is 'permanently' engaged with the axle shaft, so whatever the axle shaft is doing, that star gear is also doing.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230916_015145561.jpg

When you have the hubs in free mode, and the cams are turned such that the notches are inward, the star gear can spin 'through' those notches unimpeded, and thus there is no connection between the hub and the axle shaft.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230916_015238342.jpg

from the top - you can see the points of the star gear go through the notch (or maybe it should be called a recess):
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230916_015251113.jpg

When the cams are turned to locked mode, the solid portion of the cam is inward and blocks the star gear from turning - which in turn couples the hub to the axle shaft.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/15/PXL_20230916_015334426.jpg

One weakness to this design is the surface contact between the 2 cams and the star gear is not huge - so that is a lot of pressure on limited area, whereas the stronger design of warn hubs used more contact area between the drive gear mechanism and hub. Also, the pressure on the cams from star gear seems to want to push the cams outward leveraging the cam a bit. Many of these hubs (including the warn units) were often made of aluminum - so not the strongest stuff ever. From what I gather, they have a tendency to blow apart at the cover where the cams are - of course, mine was cracking in the central body which is probably due to something different.

The single lever system worked just the same - except it only had one cam resulting in even less surface area interaction, and a very asymmetrical loading. In their day, the 2 cams was plenty strong for the engines and tire sizes of their time and lack of lockers etc. As people modded and upgraded to more power, bigger tires, we started to find the limit to this design. I think in theory, if they could have redesigned with a more symmetrical 4 pointed gear, and used 4 cams, that would have been very strong. The levers design would probably have to have been re-worked as 4 levers would have interfered with one another, but could have used something like the cutlass cams which required a slotted screw driver type tool to turn the cam.
Here is a pic of the cutlass design - similar cam and uses a more symmetrical 6pt star gear....
http://www.willystech.com/wt/cutlasshub/Pictures/CamLockRemoved.jpg

[Jim]

Ah - thanks.

So, in this design (or even what I had in mind), does the internal star need to be near 100% aligned for the levers to easily turn to engagement? If the "star" finger is protruding into the area where the cam is located - the cam (and lever) will cease to rotate - unless the wheel or axle can turn enough to move the star's point away from the cam.

Is there sufficient slop in the differential and "star"-to-axle splines to allow the star to move out of the way for a cam to readily move to full engagement?

[FINOCJ]

Ah - thanks.

So, in this design (or even what I had in mind), does the internal star need to be near 100% aligned for the levers to easily turn to engagement? If the "star" finger is protruding into the area where the cam is located - the cam (and lever) will cease to rotate - unless the wheel or axle can turn enough to move the star's point away from the cam.

Is there sufficient slop in the differential and "star"-to-axle splines to allow the star to move out of the way for a cam to readily move to full engagement?

As long as the star gear is free to spin, as the cams turn, they will move the star gear into alignment. But that means the axle shaft (which is splined to the star gear with no slop) must be free to spin, so for the axle shaft to be free to spin, the transfer case needs to be in 2wd or nuetral. If the TC is in 4wd, then the axle/star gear is not free to spin and the cams won't turn (unless its perfectly aligned by chance).

[FINOCJ]

In case anyone wants to know more about old hub design....I am hoping/intending to replace the dualmatic hubs with stronger Warn M2 (i think thats what they are - most M2s have a boss with the M2 stamped on them - these do not) hubs....These look similar to the modern warn 'premium' hubs (like I run on my CJ), but this is a similar but older design (note the lack of small allen head bolts on the top cover).
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/16/PXL_20230916_152425921.jpg

The design is similar to the dualmatic/cutlass, but instead of the 6pt 'star' gear splined to slide over the axle shaft, it uses a more traditional gear:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/16/PXL_20230916_152606823.jpg

It looks like the outer gear teeth are 'pointy' from the top, but is just some taper/bevel on the gear teeth to make engagement with the sliding collar gear a bit easier and more self-aligning...view from the side:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/16/PXL_20230916_152640391.jpg

So that gear is just like the star gear - it is splined on the inside and slides over the axle shaft and is 'permanently' engage with the axle shaft. For the hub to engage with axle shaft gear, there is a 'sliding' collar gear that moves in and out....when its out, it is beyond the end of the axle shaft and is not engaged with the axle shaft gear - thus its 'free'. You can see in this pic with the collar gear all the way down (out) in the hub cover recess:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/16/PXL_20230916_152652861.jpg

Note the outside male threading on the inner post...The collar gear is threaded onto that post, and when you turn the outside dial/handle, you turn that inner post. The post is fixed in place, and as it turns, the threads move the collar gear inward (upward in the pic) so that it slides over the axle shaft gear. Here it is 'pushed' up with the dial handle in the locked position:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/16/PXL_20230916_152714798.jpg

The main advantage to this design is the strength of the contact between the axle shaft gear and the collar gear, and that it distributes the driving force during engagement evenly around all the many smaller gear teeth. Its kind of like the idea that fine bolt threading is stronger than coarse threading, or that many smaller splines are stronger than a few large splines (think axle shafts....early D44s were 10 spline, then 19 spline, then 30 spline etc....in the early days, the cost and technique of machining precision small splines and more gear teeth was prohibitive - and probably unnecessary given the 60hp motors and 28" tires).
Anyway, the one downside to this design is that getting the collar gear to slide over the axle shaft gear takes a little bit of alignment luck with the gear teeth (even with the tapered ends). Much like the dualmatic, as long as the TC is not engaged for the front axle and the axle gear can spin, they work pretty well....but not uncommon to have to 'rock' or drive the jeep a couple inches and try again. The teeth alignment issue is particularly noticeable for those that have 'auto' lockers or LSDs which often can limit the free spin of the axle shaft on one side, even when the TC is in neutral. Driving in a tight circle can sometimes help unlock the auto locker, but the LSDs never change.....currently my 58 is open in the front, and not sure it will ever get a traction device (a D25 under a sbcv8 is already a bit iffy, adding a locker would speed up its demise).
FWIW - the modern warn 'premium' hubs work quite similarly, but to avoid the gear alignment issue and bound up dial handle, the sliding collar gear is not directly threaded onto the central post, but rather is connected to a disc/plate with springs...that disc plate is threaded onto the post. When the handle is turned to lock, the plate is pushed inward compressing the springs. If the gear teeth are aligned, it will push the collar gear onto the axle shaft gear. If the teeth are not aligned, the springs will compress and continue to push inward on the collar gear. As you begin to drive forward, the splines will align and the spring will push the collar into place....The selling point of the 'premium' hubs was that they never are 'jammed up' and you can always turn and lock/unlock the hubs. Even with the TC engaged in 4wd, you can turn the hubs, and they will lock/unlock using the spring pressure as the gears come into alignment.

[FINOCJ]

Got the nice Warn hubs installed and the front end of the wagon ready for this weekend's wheeling trip to Stanley, ID.....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/19/PXL_20230919_173111188.jpg

Disassembled, cleaned, regreased etc....I didn't polish the exterior but good enough for my stuff. I didn't have time to get the proper ARP bolts, but I did get some too long bolts that had the correct shoulder length to pass through both halves of the locking hub and protrude into the wheel hub nicely, and then just cut off the extra thread length, cleaned up the thread all nice, and installed with lockwashers and loc-tite. I'll keep a close eye on them this weekend and see if they are loosening.....Thanks John!

[FINOCJ]

Now working on the back end....the suspension is super flexy, which is good some ways, but its also so flexy its almost 'saggy,' especially when some extra gear is loaded in the back. Even with only 30" tires, granted with 15" rims that kind of forces 9.5" width, it likes to rub the fenders a bit more than I'd like. One solution is 16" rims that would allow for a tall skinny tire - kind of a pricey solution. Another is a set of lift springs like from Jeepsterman - also a pricey solution. So been thinking about mixing and matching various leaves from other 1.75" springs that can be found relatively easily. I don't need much 'lift' (although an inch or so would be great), but mostly just firming up the springs in the rear a bit, and possibly dropping the axle bump stop a bit as well.

Here is a little pet-peeve of mine.....replacement springs from suppliers are often the wrong length such that they do not provide correct shackle angle....I picked up some new old (or would that be old new?) RR rear leaf springs that a local guy had sitting in his garage for 15+ years but never installed. The original tags were still on the leafs and the price was right....so here is one 'new' one installed on the close side and the 'old' spring still in the background:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/09/19/PXL_20230919_170117773.jpg

you can see the shackle angle is vertical with the new spring whereas the old spring the shackle sits at a nice angle....The new springs are labeled as stock ride height - no lift (still sold today) - and when sitting on the floor for direct comparison, the amount of arch in the springs is essentially identical, although the new ones feel do a bit stiffer when you stand on them on the floor, and most importantly, the new ones are an inch shorter eye to eye. Installed, the new springs may hold just a bit more arch when loaded (this is what I was looking for), but it annoys me the shackle position is wrong.
Anyway....looking at two solutions:
1) could just ride it out for a bit, including this weekend doing some easy wheeling, and see if it 'settles' a bit. But given that its literally shorter (and not just eye to eye with more arch), guessing that if it settles too much, my goal of gaining just a bit of fender clearance will be defeated....
2) I am thinking of swapping the old main leaf onto the new spring pack....that would give me the ideal spring mounting length, but with the fresh spring pack underneath to offset a bit of the sag and overly soft springs.....downside I see is potentially the difference in spring rate could put a lot of strain on the main leaf out near the eyes, and possibly cause a failure near the ends of the main leaf. With no military wrap, that is kind of a bad scenario.....
I have access to quite a lot of 1.75" leaves, both from duffer and from Keith/Joe on OWF are bringing me some to Idaho, and trying to figure out if I can mix and match leaves to get what I want/need, both on the rear, and eventually on the front.

[Jim]

Would adding a bumpstop to the top of the axle help keep the tire from contacting the body?

I'm adding these to each of the corners (fronts are on) as at full stuff (which is rare), the tires do contact the body.

[FINOCJ]

Would adding a bumpstop to the top of the axle help keep the tire from contacting the body?

I'm adding these to each of the corners (fronts are on) as at full stuff (which is rare), the tires do contact the body.

yup....

and possibly dropping the axle bump stop a bit as well.

[Java]

Maybe boomerang shackles would give you a better angle?

[FINOCJ]

Maybe boomerang shackles would give you a better angle?

Boomerang shackles don't change how the spring eye can move - its still fixed on the arc path determined the position of the spring eye relative to the pivot point. The shackle can take any path between the two points, but none of that changes how the spring can move. If my biggest concern was that the shackle could invert forward at full droop, then boomerangs would be really helpful (and maybe that is something new to consider). But in my case, the concern is more around how the shackle will limit up travel of the spring to only what happens with flex as opposed to allowing the entire spring to pivot upward from the front hanger. Honestly, I think a lot of people either have a misconception about what boomerang shackles do, or just think they look cool. The two main uses I see for them:
1) movement of the shackle is limited due to hitting an obstruction like the frame or similar - Jim's straight rear shackles on his YJ loose full travel as they hit his rear bumper/crossmember. Using the boomerang it allows the spring eye travel a bit further aft and up before the side plates hit (at least that is sorta what I remember him trying to do).
2) IIRC, boomerangs were first designed to help reduce shackle inversion concerns, especially with longer travel, flexy leaf springs....this is typically most common on front leaf springs with front mounted shackles.
Of course, there is no real downside to boomerangs in most applications that I can think of (at least for a SUA). I am thinking of swapping the the current shackles out for a slightly longer one to gain a just bit of lift, and other than paying more for them, not having to worry about inversion concerns is possibly useful - although on a rear spring mount, its not too big of a concern.

[Java]

It's old tech, if anyone has misconceptions about them now they're just not been paying attention. A lot of whacked out shackle stuff came out back in the day, remember Revolver Shackles? lol. The only real use for the boomerangs is inversion which would be the only concern I can see with that shackle angle, and most likely just bumping in reverse.

[FINOCJ]

the only concern I can see with that shackle angle,
if the spring still maintained some arch, then I wouldn't be so concerned about it....the spring would have to flatten and lengthen first, but that would push the shackle rearward and only slightly upward as it is moving along the bottom of the arc. As the leaf maxes out in length and reaches the limit of upward travel (without decambering or reversing the arch), the spring as a fixed entity is able to pivot around the front hanger and the axle can continue to travel upward without undue stress to the leaf. With a flat spring and vertical shackle similar to what I am dealing with, the shackle will never be able to pivot very far rearward (spring is too short), so as the axle travels upward, it will reverse arch the spring, which actually pulls the bottom end of shackle forward....the main issue with decambering the spring is the amount of stress and strain on the spring. Spring quality seems to have decreased a lot over the years, but I am seeing too many spring failures, and I think a lot of it has to do with improper spring length relative to the hanger positions, as well as mis-matched spring length to shackle length. Too long or too short of a shackle can also limit how the spring can pivot, and forces it to flex beyond its elastic zone.

[FINOCJ]

Next project on the 58 has begun....time to install the vintage powr-lok limited slip differential that I built this past spring....going to do a full rebuild of the 19spline D44 as well. Unlike a lot of modern D44s, this old school one has 2-piece axle shaft and wheel hub....Getting the hub off can be the hardest part of the whole deal - a big puller helps, as well as i pulled these for brake work a few years ago. They came off pretty easy...Note the old-school inboard brake drums - those will also be replaced with a more 'modern' bendix style self-adjusting drum set-up (as compared to these OEM Wagner manual adjusters).
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/03/PXL_20231101_215525429.jpg

Getting this parking brake cable out through the backing plate was one of the PITA parts...turns out there is a special tool for this - I used a combination of pliers, vice grips, screw drivers and some well placed swearing:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/03/PXL_20231101_224515140.jpg

Here is the special tool - photo from a friend:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/03/parking-brake-tool.jpg

There are a lot of pieces to get out before I tried to remove the entire axle housing or get R&p out.... I rebuilt the D44 in my cj, but this one definitely a bit more going on with the tapered hubs as opposed to the flanged axles...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/03/PXL_20231103_163922883.jpg

Once the axle housing was on the bench, it was time to get the R&P out and record helpful data....and I'll put them here for future reference if needed (like I loose my notepad)...these are the 'removal' numbers
Axle shims - right side only: .085 total
.060
.010 x2
.005
*does not include the .155 retainer plate on each side

Pinon - outer (small): .071 total
.030 x2
.005
.003 x2

Pinon - inner (large): .038 total
.015 x2
.005
.003

Ring gear Backlash: .010
And a pic of the pattern before removal:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/03/PXL_20231103_193141122.jpg

The its time to remove the R&P...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/03/PXL_20231104_025716213.jpg

Still need to press off the inner pinon bearing, and to remove the carrier bearings - although I was hoping to wait until I had the clamshell bearing puller for that (waiting on overdue shipping). Last time i got them off with my large bearing splitter, but its not the best method, and it will probably damage them - I was hoping to make set-up bearings out of them. I can always work on getting the pinon installed with proper depth and preload while waiting....the pinon seal was at the end of its life as i could tell from the oil seepage, but it was rough enough that a bit of grit and moisture etc got in, and driving the pinon and outer bearing race out was a bigger PITA than I remembered. But overall, the bearings seem very good - guessing they never got a lot of miles on them, but mostly sat unused for many years. I replaced the gear oil a few years ago, but it was still pretty nasty....lots of carbon and thick gunk stuck on lots of stuff.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/03/PXL_20231104_030436604.jpg

I can also work on cleaning up the housing....and the last two things still in the housing are the inner oil seals that I need to pull....one of the axle bearings look to have red grease and one was black - so someone has been in here messing with things. In both cases, the 'grease' was very stiff, and what is sitting up against the inner oil seal is maybe grease mixed with clay and whatnot all caked and dried up.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/03/PXL_20231104_025704864.jpg

Anyway, I have all the bearings and shims etc as part of a rebuild kit I bought awhile ago, but need to order the axle/hub grease cups and oil seals....

[Jim]

That "special tool" looks like something you could make in the shop.

Are those axles considered full float?

[FINOCJ]

Are those axles considered full float?

No....these are traditional 2-piece axles where the outer end of the axle shaft rides on a bearing that is set inside the outer end of the housing. The axle connects to the hub via a machined taper press on fit and a key/keyway.....the hub/axle keyway can be weak spot in these early D44s as can the shafts. A 'full-float' set-up would have the hub riding on a bearing that rides on a dummy 'spindle' shaft that is bolted to the end of the axle housing (just like a front axle minus the axle shaft u-joint and knuckle that allows for turning). The outer end of the axle shaft would be splined and connect to the hub via a female splined drive flange or locking hub (just like the front). The full float is not necessarily stronger in terms of the axle shaft - although it necessary to get aftermarket shafts which are often inherently stronger. And the splined hub/axle connection is no stronger than the tapered keyway, but the set-up allows for the ability for the vehicle to keep rolling on all 4 if an axle shaft breaks (and with removal of the broken shaft you can drive out in front wheel drive), as its the hub that is supported on the bearing and not the axle shaft. Blow up an axle shaft on the old 2 piece set-up, and its a PITA to get the jeep to even roll (so its hard to even tow it out)....

FWIW, This is some of the same challenges you see with the later AMC era model 20 differential found in the CJ5 and 7. The model 20 has a strong R&P, but weak axle shafts with a 2 piece design (and a weak axle tube as well). The old D44 2 piece is probably a bit stronger (albeit it wasn't often run behind the more powerful engines). The big change/improvement in the D44 (at least in the CJ vintage) started around the 1970 production year (so that includes my cj5), with a 1-piece design. The axle shaft has a flanged end that is also the wheel hub - thus '1-piece'. The axle shaft was also increased in size just a bit, axle housing increased in strength just a bit etc - proved a very strong design for most all builds of the vintage era. It is still not a 'full float' design, but the increase in strength and durability of the axle makes breakage must less likely - but yes, if the axle shaft breaks, its still a pain to tow it out on all fours. The design proved solid enough that many model 20 axles were later converted through aftermarket kits to 1-piece design (most notably moser axles).

[FINOCJ]

Making a bit of progress on the D44 PL install etc....got the housing cleaned up enough to get new zircs installed for the wheel bearing cavity and welded up the axle tube vent:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/06/PXL_20231107_004115981.jpg

Got a new vent drilled, tapped and installed in the top of the housing - this is a much better location and eventually could upgrade to a threaded nipple and a hose vent extension:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/06/PXL_20231107_004137652.jpg

Painted the housing:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/18/PXL_20231111_224106940.jpg

Spent some time with the pinon....a couple of the first threads had some damage and I was having a lot of issue getting a nut to thread on...But after tracking down a big die at the local hardware store and a lot of stress with a file and a die, I got it cleaned up pretty good without making it worse and unusable (which was the stressfull part - didn't want to deal with replacing the R&P). Those threads look pretty good now....also pressed on the new inner bearing:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/06/PXL_20231107_004426207.jpg

Drove in the inner bearing cup with the shims behind it - just trying to copy the existing pinon depth (although I erred on the side of a thousandth or so short on the stack instead of a thousandth or so thick - so that will raise the pinon up just a smidge (ps note - this may come back to be a concern!)....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/06/PXL_20231107_004437735.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Next was getting the pinon preload set...put in the exact .071 outer pinon shim stack and rotational torque came out just a bit too low at 10inch-lbs.....looking for something around 15in-lbs
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/07/PXL_20231108_011324532.jpg

so drive the pinon out and pull out the thin .002 shim ---- I got it!
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/07/PXL_20231108_025529862.jpg

I am not 100% pinon depth is spot on, so going to leave the seal and slinger etc out until I get the carrier shims set and verify good pattern. It won't be fun removing the pinon again and inner cup to change those shims if needed, but will do what needs to be done to get it right. But I matched the old inner shim pack to within .001, so it's got a good chance of working as is.

Next was transfer the ring gear from the OEM open case to the PL case....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/09/PXL_20231108_231436444.jpg

I pulled the old carrier bearings using a clamshell puller - this allowed me to not damage the old bearings upon removal so i could repurpose them into 'set-up' bearings. I ground the inside diameter of the bearing out just a bit so they would 'slip-fit' on the ends of the PL case. This allows them to be easily put on and off as the shims that go under them are fine tuned. Once the shim packs are finalized (based on R&P pattern and backlash), new bearings will get pressed on.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/18/PXL_20231112_000826239.jpg

Now for the fun...using the thickness of the shim packs that came out, I had a starting point to try test fitting the new PL case. First attempt:
I am trying to essentially match the existing wear pattern and maybe improve the backlash just a bit from the .010" that it had previously....
Here is the new set-up pattern on the drive side:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/18/PXL_20231118_185208265.jpg

coast side:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/18/PXL_20231118_185239066.jpg

I think the pattern is coming out okay in terms of in terms of height between the root and crown, but seems to be too far towards the toe. Here is the old pattern again - if anything, its possibly a smidge low, but its more centered between the heel and toe:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/05/PXL_20231103_193556620.jpg

Based on wanting to move the pattern away from the toe and towards the heel just a bit, I need to move the ring gear away from the pinon (move some shim stack from bolt side to the tooth side). Doing this will increase backlash.....The current backlash is just over .008" and I am worried that I will end up with too much backlash.

I moved the shims a bit toward the tooth side to push the ring gear away from the pinon....I went right up till the backlash was back at the max of .010 (and the same as where it was with the old case when it came out). It produced a ok pattern that mimics pretty close to what came out. The drive side is good - the coast side is still a bit towards the toe, but I would take it. I like the pattern - just wish I could squeeze the backlash down a bit. Guess I have to decide if its good as is, or if I should mess with pulling the pinon (which is a bit of a PITA) and trying to set it a bit higher (reduce the shim pack) - that would both move the pattern away from the toe, and more importantly, also raise the contact patch higher up the the flank? That would increase the backlash, so I'd also have to move some shims from the tooth side to the bolt side to offset that, and hopefully be able to get another few thousandths to across to reduce the backlash to something like .008.
Overall, I don't think this pattern is all that bad considering what it started as upon removal:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/18/PXL_20231118_222410157.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/18/PXL_20231118_222426174.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Decided to fight it a bit more and see if I can get it better....Tore it all apart again, removed a .010 shim from the inner pinon stack (from .030 to .020)....As expected, the backlash increased so I had to move some of the shim stack from the tooth side to the bolt side...Here is the best result I found with the new pinon position and a backlash of .008 (I had trouble finding a backlash of .010 or so, it seems to jump to .012 and beyond very quickly).
Drive side is not horrible - it definitely further away from the toe, but I think its a bit too high up the tooth...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/19/PXL_20231119_175923217.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/19/PXL_20231119_175912506.jpg

the coast side is not very good - its high and toe:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/19/PXL_20231119_175850027.jpg

Decided the .010 reduction was too much, so I added back .004 and checked pattern, then another .002, and finally, another .002 for a total reduction from starting point of only .002. This puts me around a total shim thickness of .028. The drive side is starting to look pretty good - its nicely centered between the root and top. Its a still a bit towards the toe, but that is less important (FWIW - BL is .006):
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/19/PXL_20231119_234842703.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/19/PXL_20231119_234747215.jpg

I think one of the reasons its tempting to run the pinon even close to the ring gear centerline is the coast side...this image is not the best and kind of over emphasize the issue, but its still pretty high and towards the toe. I looked at some ghost patterns and they do look better - though not as good as the deeper position I did very first and which was similar to what it came out with.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/19/PXL_20231119_234948828.jpg

So if going only off the drive side, I like this set up...if taking the coast side into consideration, not sure where the best compromise is. As i said, the ghost pattern seems to indicate its not as bad as the above photo, and maybe with a bit of usage, it will 'wear-in' a bit more and a larger, more centered contact patch will develop. Its also possible that increasing the backlash just a bit from .006 to .008 or so would help - and maybe would be a better target given the used gear set? Or I just go back to what I finished with yesterday and call it good - i am not seemingly getting anything that is markedly better that I can tell.

[FINOCJ]

Well, its getting close....buttoned up the carrier yesterday with the limited slip power lock case, and finished up the axle install and new upgraded 11" drum brakes - upgrade because these are self adjusting style instead of the OEM manual adjusting style. And hopefully the parking brake will work better.....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2023/11/22/PXL_20231123_052851827.jpg

You can see in the background some leaf springs that I found cheap that I think are old Rancho 1" lift springs for a willys wagon! They are a bit crusty, so disassembled and need to clean them up a bit and put them back together. I got all 4, but just working on the rears for now. The spring pack is only 4 leaves, but they are THICK leaves - one reason to believe they are Ranchos. Anyway, they will probably ride STIFF, but given their age and use, and some cleaning and lubrification, they might work just fine. I could use a bit more clearance on the rear. If they are too much lift or too stiff, i can maybe merge a couple of the thick leaves into my old OEM soft springs and find a happy medium.

[Jim]

Congrats on getting the diff adjusted/assembled!

[FINOCJ]

Well....I think I identified the engine knock I've been chasing for a year. All driving symptoms have suggested c-rod knock developing when the engine heats up and the oil thins out, but its finally gotten loud enough that I could use a stethoscope around the block and heads at idle to begin pinpointing the location. I took it for an around the block drive on 7 cylinders, and the knock was definitely gone with #1 plug wire pulled...So it seemed time to dig into this further....results are not good:
I got the bottom cap off the #1 rod and bearing shell looks like this:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/23/PXL_20240524_002001987.jpg

yup....crank journal is damaged as well...so the crank has to come out which basically means pulling the engine and pretty complete disassembly. Time to think about how to best move forward, if at all with this right now.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/23/PXL_20240524_023015012.jpg

[Jim]

Ouch.

Is there time to get the task tended before jeeping season? Do you have a spare motor? Or would you slap it together*, keep driving to a minimum, and use it for the season?

* cross the fingers repair - pull the conrod bearing half (maybe not removing the head to replace it), fine grit sandpaper on the crankshaft to remove the major marks, install new bearings. How many jeeping miles would you put on this season? You'd likely always have the trailer at the trailhead... Worst case is a strap pull to trailhead.

[FINOCJ]

Ouch.

Is there time to get the task tended before jeeping season? Do you have a spare motor? Or would you slap it together*, keep driving to a minimum, and use it for the season?

* cross the fingers repair - pull the conrod bearing half (maybe not removing the head to replace it), fine grit sandpaper on the crankshaft to remove the major marks, install new bearings. How many jeeping miles would you put on this season? You'd likely always have the trailer at the trailhead... Worst case is a strap pull to trailhead.

If it were the CJ, I might consider a minimal, get it back together repair for the summer wheeling season. But as this is the 58 wagon, and isn't so much a wheeler, but something I try to use more as a driver, it might as well head towards formal repair - although I am not sure what that exactly is yet. At least the CJ is running normal, so that will basically be my rig to run-around in an as well as explore some 4wd trails.

Still deciding on repair direction....I'd like to know what was the cause....like was their an oiling issue due to my error with cleaning out oil galley or whatever, or did I miss improper clearance on this one rod bearing (plastiguage)....The torque on the rod bearing cap was appropriate when I removed it. I guess what I need to do next is inspect the other main and rod bearings and see if this issue was a one off, or if it is pervasive. I'd like to think it was maybe just that #1 rod was out of size/round just a bit and I missed it when checking clearances - plastiguage has to be pretty inexact? That will also give some indication of how much metal has moved through the system...If just the one bearing showing damage, I think just get the crank machined (or new crank), the rods R&R'd, and new rod and main bearings properly over/undersized and re-assemble with all the essentially lightly used pieces....I guess I could consider a rebuilt/reman short block, especially if all the bearings are showing damage and lots of metal has moved through the system.

The rest of the engine was freshly machined, new pistons, new rings, rebuilt aftermarket heads with hardened valve seats and grind, and all new components (rockers, pushrods, springs, valves etc), all with less than 5000 miles. I think the cam and lifters made it through the break in period without issue - although this is the last 'new' flat tappet cam I deal with - roller cams only going forward. When rebuilding it, the machine shop suggested going with vortec heads and roller cam, but it wasn't it my budget, plus, getting the right alternator and AC bracketry for swp with vortec heads and intake was getting complicated. Oh well...its kind of like lighting $3k on fire....

[Jim]

Ah, thanks - I had CJ on my mind.

[FINOCJ]

Here are some photos of other bearings etc....
Rod bearings (top and bottom shells) for 1 and 2 that share same journal - front is to the right (so 1 is to the right) - guessing the damage to number 2 might be 'residual' from #1?:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/24/PXL_20240524_213401094.jpg

Here is #1 main - damaged:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/24/PXL_20240524_221202509.jpg

Here is #2 main - much less damage - just every so slight feel of something.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/24/PXL_20240524_221208161.jpg

Here is the crank....Main 1 has a minor groove that if it was the only issue, I think you could try a little emery cloth and new bearing shells and it might work. 1/2 journal is really only an issue on the #1 side, but its not salvageable. Main 2 is in good shape.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/24/PXL_20240524_221455270.jpg

So, mostly I was pulling these for my own interest, but at this point, I don't see any value to continue to do so....The engine has to come out, so might as well start moving in that direction. The 3 options I see going forward (other than just parking it in the corner and forgetting about it for awhile):
1) disassemble, take the rods (and attached piston as I don't deal with wrist pins) and crank to local shop for resizing and machining etc, and then reassemble. I guess technically the cylinders would need honing?, but....also not sure if this was an oiling issue, what I would need to do about that. Also, has enough metal move around that I need to worry about the cam lobes, cam bearings, oil galleys etc - Guess you could start over with this block, and get it tanked etc, honed, new cam bearing etc, and then reassemble etc - but guessing that would cost as much as other options
2) buy assembled short block, and put the rest of my stuff on it - my basic build shouldn't have any issues with matching any of the valve train components to the lower end. I sent an inquiry to S&J about short block, but don't think they sell them. Other online suppliers do....not sure who would be the best suppliers.
3) buy long block or complete crate engine....although I have good heads and whatnot, there is nothing special about the 993 iron heads.....full crate engine probably means going with a TBI vortec set-up...

[Jim]

What the heck caused this? 5000 miles since the build? Is the oil pump not pumping anywhere near spec?

[FINOCJ]

What the heck caused this? 5000 miles since the build? Is the oil pump not pumping anywhere near spec?

At first I was thinking the journal or the big end of #1 rod was not machined properly and oil clearance wasn't correct....but looking at the 'groove' in the bearings in both the #1 rod and the #1 main, both those grooves are inline with the oil passageways on the crank journals - so guessing some junk or machining debris was left in the crank and flushed out into the bearings. I don't really know how you know for sure.....in some way, the cheap, gambling part of me is thinking that there is nothing wrong with the rod, so maybe I could just swap out the crank for a new one, need to find the appropriate bearings for what I assume would be a different over/undersize combo, and put it back together. Of course, that is running the risk that the metal that has travelled through the system hasn't done any other damage or is stuck somewhere? Its not really feasible to swap a crank with the engine in place (the trans/TC would have to be removed of course), so going to start engine removal....I can ponder on whether I want to gamble and go minimal repair (just the crank), take the rods to a machine shop as well and have inspected, or go with full rebuild, assembled short block etc.....thinking pull the engine and trans/TC together, put the engine on the stand, do some rebuild of the OD unit on the TC that needs attention, and then just let it sit for awhile and think....

[Jim]

If that's your thinking (sounds reasonable to me), I think I'd be testing flow for every oil passage you can locate. Blow either with air or my preference is to flow water through them as it gives a nice visual to see the flow (though surface rust is a concern).

[FINOCJ]

Engine is out along with the 465/18/OD.....
​https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/27/d01cd5e0-47f1-406b-b8a1-57b8ec72fe8c-1_all_7875.jpg


need to pull apart at the bellhousing and get the engine on a stand. Hoping I might be able to save the iron heads, and I have an aluminum intake that I never got put on - that would be to move past the qjet carb and do something more interesting like TBI. So that would mean maybe I can get a ready to go short block....but that also means staying with flat tappet cam and 2 piece RMS etc (these gen1 sbc just are hard to seal up - after 5000 miles the amount of oil seepage everywhere is obnoxioius). Roller cam, vortec heads, 1piece RMS would be nice, but price goes up, both for the long block and for all the additional items to fully finish it like new intake, new flywheel, new bracketry etc...

Think I want to look into the OD - its not shifting correctly. It was a used unit that I didn't rebuild, so it might need some love. I need to order a couple things from AA, so maybe new blocking ring/synchro for the OD as well.

[Mountaineer01]

Tough break James, sorry to hear! This thing was coming along so nicely too. Seeing thinks like this happen to really knowledgeable mechanics is really humbling to an amateur like myself. Good luck and I hope you can find a somewhat cost effective solution, keep us posted!

[FINOCJ]

With the engine-trans-TC-OD pulled, it seems like a good time to address a small problem I was having with the external Warn OD....it would shift up to overdrive, but it wouldn't shift back down to direct drive unless the vehicle was essentially at a stop (or very slow moving)....initial thought is something with the synchronizer blocking rings might be giving me trouble. It ran fine in either range, but its nice if you can clutch and shift it easily when moving. So since its easy to access with everything out and sitting on the floor, decided to pull apart the housing and shift hub assembly (the other half - the planetary hub, and various gear inside the bowl gear are still attached to the trans output shaft inside the TC housing...
Here are some pics - with the collar shifted all the way down (or rearward) which puts it in OD:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/29/PXL_20240530_032103787.jpg

with the collar all the way up (or forward) which would also then slide over the splines on the end of the planetary hub and locks it into direct:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/29/PXL_20240530_032146749.jpg

It really has a 'chunky' shift and the collar likes to get 'stuck' about halfway between the two positions - its not super noticeable when driving and using the shifter cane, but getting the collar to slide between positions by hand pulling/pushing on the shift rail is very difficult. I cleaned up some gunky oily residue on everything and its slides better, but the issue is still what I assume is gear clash/synchro issue between the sun gear and the planetary gears. Just to make sure its not the shift rail binding or sticking, I pulled the poppet ball and cleaned up the shift rail some.

Got it mostly disassembled:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_181456686.jpg

Starting from the inside, here is the shift hub - that shiny wear looking ring is from me - forgot how soft aluminum is. Also, notice the small little post thingy sticking out around 2 oclock - I assume that is for the blocking ring and keeps it floating and positioned correctly when the shift collar is on the other side? There is not one on the opposite end of the hub:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_181550653.jpg

The hub slides into the 'stationary drive' at the rear of the unit like this with a bronze blocking ring in between:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_181955070.jpg

So that outer sleeve surface of the hub has some minor machine grooves for oiling I assume - they seem reasonably fine?
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_181940427.jpg

The rear blocking ring sits on the outer cone of the stationary drive, and the inside of that cone/sleeve also has nicely machined grooves for the end of the hub assembly...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_181917511.jpg

The one part of that I am not loving entirely....the outer cone surface of the stationary drive that the blocking ring sits on doesn't look as pristine as I would like.... maybe the ring was binding on the cone?:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_181818075.jpg

And here is the inside of the blocking ring that rides on that cone - the grooves are for oiling and keeping the ring free to turn on the cone:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_181845014.jpg

Here is the shift collar - it seems fine to me:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_182036670.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_182056749.jpg

Here are the 3 dogs and springs - also look fine to me:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_181513892e613652b82d4e013.jpg

[FINOCJ]

The other end of the main shaft has the small sun gear (which goes inside a set of 4 planetary gears to allow for the OD function).....that end rides on an old school contained set of needle bearings....some play in that, but no super concerning:

https://youtu.be/P1PnJRzgJV0

The shift fork looks very good...slight shiny polish on the pads.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/d01cd5e0-47f1-406b-b8a1-57b8ec72fe8c-1_all_7897.jpghttps://beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/d01cd5e0-47f1-406b-b8a1-57b8ec72fe8c-1_all_7896.jpg


the rear bearing is in really good shape....smooth and solid
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/d01cd5e0-47f1-406b-b8a1-57b8ec72fe8c-1_all_7898.jpg

Here is the front cone which is the rear nose of the planetary assembly - the mainshaft slides inside this planetary assembly which is mounted on the trans ouput shaft and is contained inside the transfer case housing (gotta love an old school D18) - it could use a bit of emery cloth polishing as well, but doesn't have any of the (heat?) discoloration the rear cone has above:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_224833598.jpg

The OD wasnt even installed on the wagon initially, it's been on for 3-4k miles. Oil is equally as fresh Stalube gl4. My stuff was assembled with Vaseline....the OD was essentially dry when I got it. It was a salvaged unit from an ecj5 member....it's history is unknown. Most of the pieces have a gunky dark film of either separated oil or assembly grease from prior use and/or sitting in a junk jeep for years - but my oil that came out is fresh and clean. I did not disassemble and clean prior to installing - wouldn't be surprising if it's cleaning itself out a bit. I gambled and figured just go with it and see what happens....it runs totally fine and quiet in either gear - just doesn't like shifting down when moving. If I hadn't pulled it out with the engine, I wouldn't have taken it out. Guessing the rear blocking ring is binding on the stationary cone....as a friend described it, the stuck blocking ring will keep power on the synchro assembly while in neutral. it just grinds when you try to shift to any other gear like the clutch is not pressed down - this is pretty much exactly how it feels when your try to downshift it when driving. I can either try some emery cloth on the cone, or buy a new stationary member. Also thinking a couple new blocking rings, and I think it should be good to go....oh and a bunch of new gaskets

[FINOCJ]

A little update....got it torn down to bare block....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/06/03/d01cd5e0-47f1-406b-b8a1-57b8ec72fe8c-1_all_7918.jpg

The oiling issue seems more pervasive than just rod #1...some of the other main bearings aren't looking as good as they should - no grooves but way too much wear for the limited mileage.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/06/03/d01cd5e0-47f1-406b-b8a1-57b8ec72fe8c-1_all_7917.jpg

The #5 rod bearing is also bad - showing copper and did a bit of damage to the crank:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/06/03/d01cd5e0-47f1-406b-b8a1-57b8ec72fe8c-1_all_7916.jpg

Originally, I was hoping this was a single oil galley issue and machining the crank journals, new undersize bearings, honing the cylinders and basic parts (bearings, gaskets, rings) would be enough. Wasn't sure about cam bearings etc....but that is all moot now. I knew I was running into a lot more bearing damage than originally thought... A local engine shop took a look at the parts/block...He checked a few common mistakes or errors that can happen (missing plugs or non-functional relief valve on the oil pump) that can starve oil, but everything seems in order in that regard. Its possible that somehow the crank/main bearings were somehow out of tolerance with the line bore, but that is pretty rare. Basically, his best guess is it seems like there was some sort of contamination in the oil....there is even signs of wear at the rocker arms on the top of the springs, and at the pivot balls, cam as well as decent circle wear on the bottom of the lifters - Seemed some of the convexity was flattened out. So anything that was oiled had wear - but what contaminated the oil? His best guess is something like Al oxide that gets used in various abrasives/scotchbrite when people are cleaning gasket surfaces and what not, gets embedded into the rough casting of the block and is really hard to clean out - even typical machine shop jet washes won't remove all of it. I didn't use anything like that on the block, but it can get into the jet wash at shops like his from someone else's block and then it contaminates all subsequent blocks that are used in that jet wash. I don't know....I guess the biggest concern would be if Al oxide contaminated the entire system, there is no easy way to get it all out, and any future build with the block is a bit risky....probably will need to disassemble the heads completely and wash them as well, and the intake if i stay with the same one.
In short, For over $1000 (and 4 months out) for machine work and parts, plus some risk that I cannot get it cleaned out well enough and will end up back in this same spot in a year....I am going with an assembled sbc350 short block from S&J engines - its close enough in the Spokane, WA area that i can go pick it up and trade my core to avoid shipping costs and hassles. Still going to be over 2 months out, but I am going to Alaska for a big chunk of that, and have plenty of other upgrades to do while the willys sits. While going through this, looking at doing some other upgrades and things I never but probably should have done the first time through.

[Jim]

Sounds good to cut bait and not risk it.

[FINOCJ]

Disheartening in the sense that I wanted to run an engine that I built - well really assemble - but in the long run, the real 'building' part is more about the machine work anyway. Assuming I get full core return, the short block will come completely assembled minus the oil pump - which is provided but not installed. That includes fresh machined block and crank, cleaned and prepped block with all proper plugs etc, installed crank, main bearings, installed rods and pistons and rod bearings, installed cam bearings and cam, installed complete timing set, installed 2-piece RMS, and painted for an additional $80 - total cost is $1700. That isn't much more than the machine shop estimate, and removes some of the risk. It hurts a bit considering what I already put into the engine, but the willys is useless without one - looking at it in the garage isn't worth a thing to me. There is still some big spending to come in the budget with TBI system - skipping out on the carb. I already had picked up an aftermarket aluminum intake with square bore bolt pattern that will work better with the TBI, will still need to figure out new fuel pump and maybe a gas tank - looking at a 90s TBI chevy van tank that will up my fuel capacity significantly, and is set-up with an in tank TBI pump. The final question will be whether to add aftermarket aluminum heads to go with the intake, or stay with iron heads i was using before (after a complete disassembly and cleaning). Heat control and heat soak has been an issue, and with the carb, its been boiling the fuel out of the bowl after it sits turn-off for a few minutes. I also haven't been able to lean the carb out enough - partially I think because the heat and fuel boiling was causing issues with the gaskets and dripping fuel down the throat. Some of that was my fault in not blocking off the carb pre-heat exhaust passages in the intake that go under the carb...TBI will help that, aluminum top end pieces can also help dissipate heat....the intake will help, but maybe just go all out with aluminum heads as well (plus some performance gains). The TBI unit I am looking at (holley sniper) has the control board/switches (computer) mounted in the throttle body (as opposed to remotely somewhere else), which makes for a very clean install, but exposes the unit to more heat. Plus, I've never been successful getting any gasket to seal the VCs on the iron heads. Maybe there is a cool factor with all aluminum top end? I thought there was a sort of old school cool with all iron pieces last time.

[TjMike]

Tough break but agree with Jim and think you're making the right move. It's hard giving up on all that work you've put into it but having a reliable engine will make up for it.

[Jim]

A couple things reading your recent post...

So, you might re-use the heads that were on the unknown damaging particulate motor? I'd lean more heavily to the go aluminum and not re-use old motor items - no chance of damage to the new motor (I'm being overly cautious).

Second, on the boiling fuel - I had such an issue on a 68 Ford Wagon - v8. It kept boiling fuel such that when I'd come back from a long enough drive (didn't take too long), I'd turn the car of, get out and walk near the engine and I could hear boiling liquid sounds. In the end, I figured the intake exhaust pre-heat for the carb was passing too much exhaust gas so I figured I'd stop all exhaust gas flow. For a test, I put a thin metal shim / block at one of the sides - between the intake man & head. That didn't do the trick - a short time later - boiling fuel. I pulled the shim only to find it was blown apart. End of the story - this exhaust setup did not use any mechanical valve to bias exhaust flow through the intake but rather had a permanent inside-the-exhaust tube restrictor tube for one of the banks. That inner restriction tube had collapsed completely shut (the exhaust system looked perfect on the outside). One bank had all of its exhaust passing through the intake manifold. I removed the exhaust and could tap my flat palm at each exhaust manifold tube (on the exhaust) - different tones were produced. I pulled a hacksaw and cut the 'dead' sounding tube and that's when I saw the inner restrictor pipe collapsed closed.

Any chance your exhaust system could be doing the same to your carb heating? Try the flat palm drum tap on the open tube ends - do they sound the same?

[xaza]

rough luck James. Great write up on your process. I put an engine from S&J Engines in the XJ. I had great success with the engine and it was still running great when I sold the truck. Only put about 15k miles on it but ran solid and strong.

[FINOCJ]

Any chance your exhaust system could be doing the same to your carb heating? Try the flat palm drum tap on the open tube ends - do they sound the same?
I'll check, but when I put the exhaust system together, it uses old school iron ramshorn manifolds pre any exhaust recycle emissions valves, and the rest of the exhaust is just simple thin all tubing with no cut-out or valves. But yes, as there is no valving system to the preheater passage on the manifold, any blockage on one side would force more/most exhaust through the manifold passage to the opposite side and bringing that much more heat under the carb. As I learned later, for SBCs its pretty standard practice to use thin metal blockers for that intake passageway - they were included with the gasket kit - but I decided against it as the 'OEM' set-up for my intake was not to use them....but in the years since, it seems with ethanol rich fuels, its become standard practice to block them. Don't know if it would solve all the issues - but I never quite got to trying. When in doubt, I typically go with OEM set-up, and I was originally worried about how much issue cold starts would be, especially in MT, and how long it would take to get it warmed up and running on an old school carb. But this thing basically started with minimal to no choke, and has never needed much warm up time - it was the hot starts after heat soaking for a few minutes that would boil the fuel that were noticeable. At the same time, there is so much heat underhood - one reason I quickly switched from shorty headers to iron manifolds - that I am not sure that blocking the passageway will be enough. I put a 1.5" heat spacer under the carb, and that helped a smidge during cooler weather.....I guess exhaust gas is HOT (I know that is a sort of dumb comment), but what I mean is that its significantly hotter than say typical block temps, and thus it really does lead to heating the intake much more than it would otherwise be? I wished I would have pulled the intake at some point and tried - its just such a hassle to to on this set-up given the position of the engine etc and that the iron intake is HEAVY and its very awkward to get it out with the hood, fenders, grill etc all still on - maybe if I were 6'3 instead of 5'8" with long arms. Plus, I had so much trouble ever getting the back half to seal back up on the old sbc283 when I pulled it there (same manifold re-used), that since it wasn't leaking oil out the back, I didn't want to mess with it. oh well, live and learn.....I am excited to use the aluminum manifold, and I'll block the preheat exhaust passageway, and the TBI system doesn't have a fuel bowl like a carb, so all that should really help. Now, do I want to make an offer on these: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1491685731758160/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

[Jim]

$950?

[Mountaineer01]

$950?

Listed for 3 weeks, add says OBO.. he'll probably take $800 maybe even less...

[TyTheJeepGuy]

*sweating because I 100% used scotchbrite on the block head gasket surface*

[FINOCJ]

*sweating because I 100% used scotchbrite on the block head gasket surface*

hope not....here is a note from the NTSB about it:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10137601-9999.pdf

I didn't use any on my gasket surfaces, but....something got in there. It may have been some other project I was working on - be nice if I had a 'clean' room for engine assembly, but my garage shop often has multiple overlapping projects going on, and its possibly I was doing some metal grinding out in the driveway and it got to the engine (which i kept plastic wrapped), but....? who knows - would've been easier to just light the $3k on fire.

[FINOCJ]

A small update....been doing a lot of tedious and time consuming work on the 58 project, but seems like it never really gets anywhere....but I did get the rebuilt engine back together and that seems worthy of celebration. It has a rebuilt shortblock from S and J engines, and then I added my old heads and whatnot, plus a new aluminum Edelbrock intake. The carb set-up is hopefully only temporary, as the plan is to go TBI, but getting the gas tank and fuel pump aspects figured has been difficult. Plus, i am not sure I trust trying to start up the fresh engine with flat tappet cam on a TBI system I've never run. Given how senstitive these cams are to getting destroyed during initial start up and break-in, I am going to go with the tried and true qjet carb that it was running on previously. Plus, that buys me some more time to figure out the gas tank and TBI.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/09/19/70ed0830-ff83-4e19-882e-88dc7ddd6fdb-1_all_12124.jpg

Also, got it attached to the rest of the drivetrain:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/09/20/70ed0830-ff83-4e19-882e-88dc7ddd6fdb-1_all_12127.jpg

It'll go in as one big unit, but we are also working on a few other willys projects, so it'll be a bit before actual install. While it was all out, I did some minor rebuild of the Warn overdrive shift assembly and synchronizers - it seemed to like to upshift just fine, but something was binding on the downshift. I actually kind of like messing with various gear boxes:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/05/30/PXL_20240530_181456686.jpg

New shift hub and sliding collar, new dogs and springs, new blocking rings, new gaskets.....won't know if it's till its all back and running:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2024/06/10/d01cd5e0-47f1-406b-b8a1-57b8ec72fe8c-1_all_7928.jpg

We got quite a bit of interior work going on as well - Jen has really been helping with that....

[Jim]

Progress!

If I can help with respect to FI pump in a mechanical pump tank setup - holler. I have some "life experience" education with mine.

What PSI is your FI pump putting out? Mine is something low - 25 to 40psi (at the rail) IIRC.

[FINOCJ]

Progress!

If I can help with respect to FI pump in a mechanical pump tank setup - holler. I have some "life experience" education with mine.

What PSI is your FI pump putting out? Mine is something low - 25 to 40psi (at the rail) IIRC.

With TBI (as opposed to MPI like yours), the pump pressure doesn't need to be all that high. Most TBI pumps will put out about 40 psi and then a regulator will drop it lower - like 8psi I think. I expect to use a quality (expensive) walbro pump like this:
https://hotrodhardware.com/products/genuine-walbro-tbi-in-tank-fuel-pumps

The hard part is the actual fuel tank....I just haven't found any option of a pre-made tank for some other application that will fit in the space I need. I was hoping the chevy s-10 tanks from the 90s would work, as it was mated to the typical GM TBI system, and all the parts like pump, sending unit etc, would be basically off the shelf. But alas, it won't fit without some modifications that go beyond what I am comfortable doing. So, I am looking at having a fab shop make the tank, but is expensive. One option comes from a hot rod shop that I know will do all the little details correct - like the internal baffles, filler inlet, pump and sending unit mounts etc - but as you can imagine, the price hit hard. A local connection around here that works at a fab shop has offered to help me out as a side project for a price I am willing to do, but as you can imagine, things get a bit squirrely when doing it this way......

[Jim]

You're talking about replacing the main fuel tank,yes? Have you thought about adding a small 1 or 2 gallon tank for the FI pump and the main and underseat keep this FI tank full?

My tank is the original carb setup tank - the sending unit is a bit cobbled together to get the pump onto it. Could you do the same? Do you have any photos of your sending unit and tank connection?

[FINOCJ]

You're talking about replacing the main fuel tank,yes? Have you thought about adding a small 1 or 2 gallon tank for the FI pump and the main and underseat keep this FI tank full?

This is on the 58, so the tank system is different than on the CJ.....it only has a small rear tank (no underseat tank). One of the main goals is to get a bigger tank - v8s are thirsty - even if I keep the carb, it still needs a bigger tank. The current OEM tank has only 13 gal of usable capacity, so I can't even go 150 miles on a tank (which is better than the OEM CJ 10 gal tank!). I am hoping for an improvement in mpg with the TBI, but at best, maybe 15mpg on a gen 1 sbc? So if it had 20 gal of usable capacity, that would be 300 miles, but I'd take a range of 250 miles - that is like 3-4 hours of driving on hwy.

Some have suggested a dual tank set-up (which is what I run in the CJ), but its a bit more complicated as the low pressure fuel system can use the same mechanical pump to pull from either tank (just need a valve to switch between the lines. Also, by 1970, the OEM underseat tank in the CJ has a return line, and the rear tank I installed also has a return line, so a second valve is needed to switch the return lines. On the TBI system, return line is mandatory.

Given that typically, TBI pumps are mounted in the tank, i would need two tanks, each TBI pump compatible (which the current OEM tank is not), both tanks with return line option (which the OEM tank is not), and electrical switch to operate the pumps separately. I'd prefer to use an in tank pump.......but it is possible to use an inline pump mounted in the frame rail, and then I could pull fuel from either tank with single pump and valve (just like the CJ). Still would need return lines to both tanks etc. Last option, is use a second tank with built in TBI pump and set-up, use that tank to feed the TBI system, and then use the original tank as a 'supply' tank to then fill the TBI feed tank. In such a case, I haven't really found a good option to to place a second tank under the frame, and it complicates matters with trying to protect it with skid plates etc.

[Jim]

Do you have any pictures of the 58's sending unit (out of the tank) and the mounting hole, in the tank, for the sending unit?

EDIT: I guess, nevermind as you're looking for a larger tank.

[FINOCJ]

I think its ready for initial start-up and (cam) break-in......going to go through and double check the basics tomorrow morning when i am not so tired, then prime the oil pump, install the distributor and wires and see what happens. I get why people use engine run stands, as it is a lot of work to get it into the rig and then get all the other stuff hooked up. But, assuming it all goes well, it'll pretty much be ready to drive around during run-in and finish seating the rings etc for the next few weeks. Lots of other side projects going on with it.....TBI/gas tank, interior upgrades etc that I can update after its running and driving again. I am a bit worried about the OD I did some work on back a few posts - hard to explain, but it seems like the sliding collar might be jammed up a bit making it not want to shift. Hopefully once things are spinning and some oil gets slung around, it'll shift normally. time for a beer.....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/09/29/PXL_20240929_235535850.jpg

[FINOCJ]

Going to ignore the engine aspect of the project for a bit longer.....things haven't gone as smoothly as I was hoping....but while it has some down time, I did figure out how to get some 3pt seat belts mounted into it.....for now its just the passenger side, but it does give proof of concept. Driver side is to come....Jim - you want the old lap belts from your YJ back?

The hard part of this is getting some sort of solid mount for the shoulder point. A threaded backing plate mount has to be fished up inside the B-pillar and then held in place enough that you can then get the shoulder point mount bolt etc mounted. I was fully prepared to drill a small access hole at the bottom of the B-pillar (that was going to be hidden behind the retractor box), but I got lucky and didn't have to drill hole. Having never seen an unfinished or stripped body tub, some members of OWF pointed out there is factory hole in the rearward side of the pillar - it can be accessed by removing the side panel behind the pillar. Its a bit of a PITA to get the side panels off given how the interior carpeting and padding was done. But once I knew there was an access hole back in there, it was worth tearing things up a bit. There is decorative plastic triangular cover to go over the top of the shoulder mount, but I kind of like the bare bracket look - plus with the tight fit against the window trim and the windlace etc, things work a bit better as is. I used a small spacer between the body and the shoulder belt mount to give clearance, and maybe I could use a bigger spacer, but I do want to ensure I get full thread engagement into the threaded backing plate (the mounting bolt isn't very long, and its a bit unique with a large shoulder that isn't going to be easily found in a longer length at the hardware store)
.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2024/10/26/PXL_20241026_195740579.jpg


I installed lap belts years ago (thanks Jim - never had to test them out!), and there wasn't really any forward thought about 3pt belts at the time, so the lower retractor mount uses that floor hole I made for those previous belts- its not directly under the shoulder point, but it should be fine. I made a snazzy little bracket at the floor with dual mounts to handle both the retractor as well as the opposite end of the belt. It helped shift the retractor such that its pretty flush against the side wall, and also allows the terminal end of the belt to mount in such a way that the lap belt has no twist in it (sorry - that sort of stuff really annoys me). I bought my belts from wesco (instead of the similar seat belts plus), and the way the end of the belt was stitched onto the mounting eye, you can't mount the eye flat on the floor as the mounting eye is 'upside down' given the bend in the mounting eye (and I couldn't find a local shop that would touch restiching seat belts). So it really has to be mounted on a vertical plane - typically an L-bracket would suffice, but I didn't want to drill a second hole next to the retractor L-bracket - so I made a combo dual L-bracket (aka a 'U').

[Jim]

Jim - you want the old lap belts from your YJ back?

Thanks for the consideration, though no, I would not use them. If you can find'm a good home - go for it!

[FINOCJ]

Lots of work has been happening slowly on the 58.... currently celebrating finishing some interior work. Tried last fall getting this thing back on the road, but ran into some issues and got sidetracked with lots of little projects. One of the big ones was we decided not to retrofit a vintage air A/C unit into it, but that got us thinking about all the work that needed to be first - like sealing up all the holes in the firewall, and getting some insulation in (both thermal and sound) and generally make the cabin more pleasant. I had to remove a lot of the underside of the dash stuff to get to the wiper system I am redoing (that is for a different post), so we decided to go all out on the interior:

It started with repairing and welding up all the unnecessary holes in the firewall - I think there was something like 35 of them.....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2025/02/23/PXL_20240804_225836682.jpg

Next was striping out any rust on the floor pans and interior sheetmetal, and then we sprayed a rust reformer primer. a lot of the not visible interior sheetmetal (like the backside of the dash, and up under the cowl etc) was bare metal - lots of light rust).
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2025/02/23/PXL_20240804_183126951-1.jpg

Next was thermal insulation - we used hush mat products - we covered EVERYTHING in the cab including all the hard to reach places behind the side panels, up under the dash and cowl etc:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2025/02/23/PXL_20240804_222551912.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2025/02/23/PXL_20240825_233342946.jpg

Then on top of that, we used the hush mat 'silencer' sound insulator, and again we put it everywhere on top of the thermal mat, and then ran some behind the door panels - this is when it starts looking promising:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2025/02/23/PXL_20240930_161901622.jpg

Then we worked with a local upholstery shop to get carpet in on top of that....this wasn't trivial given the old school need to have access to the removable floorpans and through the floor pedal etc....I learned some stuff the hard way with that, but in the end, Jen helped me get it all to work, and we made some custom shifter boots and trim rings etc:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2025/02/23/PXL_20250212_162428528.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2025/02/23/PXL_20250212_235320803.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2025/02/23/PXL_20250223_190516718.jpg

The reason this is so exciting is that now, a lot of the other stuff I've been working on and test fitting etc, can now finally start getting installed. I am sure I'll run into issues, but kind of getting to the final assembly as things go back together, and that helps the motivation! If we were going to install A/C, all this stuff needed to happen anyway, and we are hoping that these improvement will make the cabin a much more pleasant, less noisy, less hot place to be, even without AC....At some point, we think we'll do the cargo area as well, but for now, that stays with the old shag carpet from the PO (and it does have some insulation back there as well).