58 Willys Wagon [Archive] - Front Range 4x4 Forums

FINOCJ

August 11th, 2019, 07:11 AM

Going to start by just getting it running a bit...which means getting the fuel pump and carb working better. Then drive it around for a bit...see how the v8 does and and how the power steering and brakes do. If its all good, I could probably drive it around as is for awhile with a 3 speed in it, but the tentative longer term goal is to update it enough to make it a good semi-modern driver for town and mountains, but not necessarily a wheeling vehicle (say that now, but....). In a dream world, I'd like to use this as my daily driver SUV. So the engine upgrade and power steering are nice steps in that direction. May upgrade the brakes to discs - at least in the front - and will probably modernize the interior. I kept my cj5 more period correct with the low back seats and lap belts, manual steering etc...but this one I want to a bit more comfortable and safe. In the long run, the t90 3 speed may get swapped for a 700r4 4speed automatic with OD - and it should bolt right up to a sbc. I'd like for Jen to be able to drive it some comfortably as well. It might even get a radio and some A/C some day.
The interior is pretty decent...and the seats were recovered at some point...maybe late 70s early 80s? - and the original seats and frames are there but the blue and yellow plaid is not my favorite. Honestly thinking of selling those off to someone who is doing a true restoration and putting in new high back seats in the front and figure out 3pt seat belts. Pic of the sbcv8 and the original owners manual and paperwork as well.

Java

August 12th, 2019, 08:37 AM

Nice! The body looks really good, love that plaid interior. :thumb: Maybe swap the body on to a TJ frame down the road?

FINOCJ

August 13th, 2019, 02:20 PM

id lean to scraping to frame & drive train.

Maybe swap the body on to a TJ frame down the road?

I have tried to keep my cj5 fairly authentic...obviously its not 100% original, but I did upgrades and mods that would have been standard back in the day, or some that are kind of hidden and not obvious on the outside. But overall, its the original frame unmodified, unmodified steering, original lowback seats, original V6 with small cam and pertronix, and even kept the through the floor pedals with manual brakes and drums all around - just went a little bigger on the front drums. Even used an old 80s Ramsey winch.

In the case of the wagon, I am open to more modernization - it already has a power steering and v8 swap. I am thinking of an automatic transmission and probably going to disc brakes at least in the front. And probably go with modern highback seats and safety belts, air conditioning etc. But at the same time, frame and axles and body will all stay the same...old flexy C-channel frames with through the floor pedals have a unique feel that I like. I may even keep the T90 3speed transmission for a bit until I see how everything else goes...I am not really into an old body on a new chassis with modern drivetrain - for me, at that point, I just assume have the all new car body and all. I want a classic car with some modern touches, and most of all, want it to be reliable...this one I do want to be a bit more comfortable and driveable than the cj5, but the engine and steering swap, planned brake upgrade as well as some modern touches to the interior, it should be more than enough.

Jim

August 13th, 2019, 02:25 PM

Did you get the motor running / fuel issue tended? Driven it around the block yet?

jayson44

August 13th, 2019, 02:51 PM

buy a wrecked Tahoe or the like and swap the body onto that. modern v8 w/fuel injection, modern IFS, modern 4x4, stronger frame...that's always been on my mind for one of these.

there's a guy up by me who has a Willys pickup that he swapped onto a 1st-gen Tacoma. basically just swapped the bodies and it's pretty clean.

J.

FINOCJ

August 13th, 2019, 04:50 PM

Did you get the motor running / fuel issue tended? Driven it around the block yet?

Visitors all weekend limited progress, but I pulled the fuel pump and carb and cleaned up some other junk - its a quadrajet carb so its not as trivial to rebuild as the R2g on my jeep, or even as simple as a standard 4-barrel. Did quite a bit of cleaning up of the carb (bad gas with lots of varnish build-up) and will adjust the float and check needle...seems to be flooding the carb even with a bad fuel pump. New pump and then will try to see how well it will run (I've run it some parked in driveway, and of course drove it up on the ramps to pull it home, but had to keep pouring gas into the carb) with just those minimal changes. Guessing it will have some overheating problems given some of the other stuff apparent in the engine bay.

buy a wrecked Tahoe or the like and swap the body onto that. modern v8 w/fuel injection, modern IFS, modern 4x4, stronger frame

No, no, noooo....sorry just not my style. Plus, the classic bolt on to a chevy chassis causes the axle width/stance to be way too wide for my aesthetic tastes...or you have to cut down the axles. Some people like the looks of old vehicles, but I actually like driving them as is...Each person is welcome to build their stuff how they like, no qualms with that, and nothing but respect for each person doing their own thing how they like...for me that means keeping a pretty solid air of authenticity...If I mod it, I want to mod the existing pieces as opposed to replace them, so that means keeping the axles and frame and basic suspension set-up (all 4 leafs) but changing the brakes or gears if needed, or if go to TBI instead of a carb, but no need to swap out the classic motor (appears to be a '59 sbc 283 block with a mid 60s spread bore intake with quadrajet)... Don't get me wrong, I like new technology and new cars, just don't like mixing and old body with a new chassis etc...Plus the new stuff is outside of my comfort zone in terms of working on them...old stuff is simple. I am fine taking my modern Toyota to a repair shop if needed, but I try to do all the work myself with fairly simple shop/garage tools on these old jeeps (which a few exceptions of course).

Brian

August 13th, 2019, 09:53 PM

Nice score! Looks really clean.

Hypoid

August 14th, 2019, 12:59 PM

Very nice, and all the heavy lifting is done!

FINOCJ

August 14th, 2019, 07:13 PM

Quadrajet disassembled....(and a fuel pump sitting off to the side)...there was no inline fuel filter either before the pump, or between the pump and carb inlet. There was the inlet filter on the carb at least...time to clean more...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/08/14/P_20190814_180151.jpg

Spieg

August 14th, 2019, 09:09 PM

Nice ride James! I'm a little jealous. Might be worthwhile trying to run temporary fuel lines to a jerry can until you are confident the pump/carb function well enough. Rust/debris is common in old gas tanks that can make trouble shooting tricky.

alanmikkelsen

August 16th, 2019, 08:13 AM

That's a great find/project! All kinds of possibilities!

FINOCJ

August 20th, 2019, 10:37 AM

Jim - would you mind moving this thread to member build threads....many thanks! I'll shoot you a PM as well.

Jim

August 20th, 2019, 10:49 AM

I believe "build threads" is what you seek and where it now finds itself. Any change, holler.

FINOCJ

August 21st, 2019, 08:54 AM

Allright...making progress.
Got the fuel pump in...its kind of a PITA given where the pump is located on the front of the block and the front motor mount adapter pieces make hand access difficult. And I am sure some of you are well acquainted with the sbc fuel pump pin that pumps the fuel pump arm - as it seems to fall down and block installation no matter what! As its been over 100 in my garage recently, vasoline just won't hold it up, and there isn't enough room with the motor mounts, my hand and a screwdriver to get everything together and get the bolts started.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/08/20/P_20190819_180500.jpg
Also doesn't help that the simple pumps seem to all have the fuel line ports on the front of the pump, and all the line come and go from the back. If doing this again, I would probably invest in a more expensive pump with better options for fuel line connection location. But a little time bending some new steel line and getting rid of POs complicated and leaking system wasn't too bad. I also learned that the fuel pump area is apparently lower the the fuel tank so every time I had to test fit or adjust the feed line, I got fuel spilled all over me - tired of my hair (and garage) smelling like gasoline for the last 3 days.

Carb rebuid is finished. I sealed up the fuel bowl wells using the slow setting Marine grade JB Weld as its specifically states good for petroleum and fuel. I couldn't make it look it all pretty - but so long as it works.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/08/20/P_20190819_180515.jpg

Everything put back together and it started up and runs! No fuel leaks.
Before:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/08/20/P_20190812_164051.jpg
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/08/20/P_20190812_164059.jpg

After:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/08/20/P_20190820_203609.jpghttps://beamingpix.com/images/2019/08/20/P_20190820_203506.jpg

Now on to the next problem...generator was smoking and sizzling after running for a few minutes and got very hot. Had to disconnect the battery to stop current from flowing even with ignition switch off....

In case anyone is interested in Qjet rebuild videos - I thought this Harold Demes set was very good. I didn't do full rebuild of the baseplate and throttle and choke plate shafts, nor did I replate everything to make it look pretty, but goes to show the quality and attention to detail of the builder - also looks to have some videos of other Holley etc carbs:
part 1: https://youtu.be/nQYyBXc5tdk
part 2: https://youtu.be/eyTZP9zaHEI
part 3: https://youtu.be/tBDm9AUVQN0

alanmikkelsen

August 21st, 2019, 09:09 AM

Great work!

Swank1975

August 21st, 2019, 05:36 PM

This would be a start. :)

Rocrawlr

August 21st, 2019, 05:54 PM

Wow...it's been quite a while since I rebuilt a Quadrajet. Brings back found memories...fun stuff!

Trevor?

August 21st, 2019, 09:20 PM

FINOCJ

August 22nd, 2019, 07:09 AM

Very cool jeep. I'm really digging the plaid interior, but I bet that's a bit of a polarizing design choice by the previous owner.

Do the wagons run the spicer 18 transfercase? Maybe once you get a chance to cruise around in it a bit you might find all it needs is a saturn overdrive. The whole tractor-shift situation would really up your jeep-cred, even though it's kinda the complete opposite of what you were thinking with an automatic swap.

But then again....4 shift levers.... everything's better with more shift levers.

it does come with D18....already have D18 and OD in the cj5 so already have my shift lever needs covered. In a perfect world I'd swap the D18 for a D20 and a 4speed auto with OD. We'll see how far I ever get with this project.

FINOCJ

September 17th, 2019, 12:21 AM

Been doing some cooling system work....the old radiator was too wide and even though it was mounted back from the grill to fit, it was still too far away from the fan, had leaks, and was poorly mounted. After fighting getting good radiator work done on the cj5, I just went ahead and bought a new aluminum one from Champion. The radiator does fit in the oem location forward against the grill, but decided to start with the radiator mounted back one inch..this brings the radiator closer to the fan as well as provides clearance for the lower radiator inlet hose to squeeze past the battery try (which is not oem due to engine swap). I put in metal spacers on the mounts, and I also added a spacer behind the fan to push it forward (as long as it doesn't hit the cross-member). This reduces the gap between the fan and radiator to a bit better distance. I still need to get a shroud built, and then maybe I can move the radiator forward to the oem mounting location and modify the battery tray then. Figure this is worth a shot as it doesn't require too much work. I have checked the fan clearance quite a bit and am comfortable with including the one inch spacer...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/14/P_20190914_200640.jpg

While at this all hoses were replaced which is kind of fun when trying to buy for a one off application. I got the heater valve cleaned up and included it in the hose routing...it had been skipped, but now I need to clean up the pull cable as its frozen up. edit: after testing this out a bit, I found the heater shut off valve is leaking out the top plunger, and thus the reason it was originally bypassed. I bypassed again, and trying to determine if its even an oem piece and whether I should even replace it. The heater core is external - mounted in the engine bay - so a shut-off is not really necessary, and the cj never had one from the factory with the similar external heater core.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/14/P_20190914_200724.jpg

I also changed the manifold inlet to allow for better heater hose routing.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/14/P_20190914_200703.jpg

Initial test this evening suggests it may work....but not convinced yet as it wasn't really that hot. I do think a shroud will help if I can get one built. Or if nothing else, if I replace the old school generator with an alternator that can handle a bit more electrical load, i might just mount an electric fan on the radiator - Champion sells one specifically for this radiator.

FINOCJ

September 17th, 2019, 12:26 AM

Oh, and guess I never mentioned this...had a bit of an electrical issue so had the generator and voltage regulator checked out and cleaned up. I do want to eventually replace these with a 3 wire 10si alternator, but the wiring right now is a complete mess so not sure. Just trying to get it running a bit, then maybe try to work on that over time. I would recommend the old school generator/starter/alternator shop i took it to...D and D Auto Electric....

https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/08/27/P_20190827_205144ef3131dfb87111b3.jpg

FINOCJ

September 17th, 2019, 12:34 AM

Doing this a bit out of order - didn't realize I hadn't updated this since the start of the carb rebuild...
When trying to tune the quadrajet and realized I am missing a rod that goes from the thermal coil to the choke...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/08/29/P_20190829_173158.jpg

should look like this:
http://www.carburetion.com/Images/Chokes/9013set-Ai.jpg
in other words, the choke has not been closed when trying to start with only flooring gas pedal (I really prefer manual choke), which makes it a bit easier to cold start. Though about just running the manual choke cable to the spot (from the original L6 engine), and activating by hand...but I would have had to remove the the reverse 'L' piece with the tiny notch in the end that locks out the secondary throttle plate from opening until the engine is warm. So I tracked down new parts and go them installed and they seem to be working well...cold start is better with functioning auto choke as well as the thermal rod allows the choke to slowly open and step down the idle from fast to slow as it warms up (with the touch of the gas pedal).

https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/03/P_20190903_191214.jpg

Set cold/fast idle around 1000 and then hot/low idle at 650. From what I have read, the hot idle should be even lower - say closer to 450-500 - but I backed the hot idle screw all the way out and 650 it is. I tried trimming the idle down with the idle mixture screws, but they don't seem to have much affect. Guessing I need to look at the timing a bit more...at least its running with some decent timing advance, but I probably need to get the vac gauge out and really get it dialed in.

Jim

September 17th, 2019, 01:00 AM

Nice work.

Yep - fan shroud would be needed for the mechanical fan config for city driving. I guess the question is - how much do you wish to change from current generator to alternator. I think I'd put that change as the decider for electric fan or not.

(how much do you wish to keep this original)

FINOCJ

September 21st, 2019, 08:30 PM

The drive side bench seat had a broken seat bracket...

https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/07/P_20190907_161528.jpg

It had been previously worked on with some ugly blobular welds - can't say mine were much better but I did try to get it hot enough to get some more penetration than the previous repair. Also made some progress on getting some 2pt seat belts mounted...I got a pair of YJ rear seat lap belts from Jim (thanks!) and they should work fine for now. Mounted the inside portion of the belts to the seat mount.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/08/P_20190907_203212.jpg

The outside portion of the belt was a bit trickier...Especially on the passenger side, the belt cannot just be attached to the seat frame as the entire frame folds/pivots forward for access to the rear seat, and there is no latch holding it down. If the belt was just mounted to the seat frame, then the passenger, seat and belts could all still pivot forward into the dash/windshield. The belt needs to be mounted to a fixed spot on the floor/body to hold it in place.... first thought was to mount them here on both sides....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/08/P_20190908_194906.jpg

But after getting some measurements from a friend with a slightly later 62 Willys that came with seat-belts, I decided to put them in the floorboard behind the seat pretty close to the oem location on the later Willys. I didn't get a pic of the underside, but I used the large (3" or so) diameter fender washers that were on the rear seat belt mount from my CJ. I kept the inside mounts on the seat mount on the slider track for now even though they could also be drilled through the floor...

Driver side, looking down from the seat back...top of pic is toward the rear seat.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/21/P_20190921_183644-1.jpg

A little better perspective on mount location...this is looking past the outside edge of the driver seat towards the rear.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/21/P_20190921_183708.jpg

Allright, after grading 25 physics lab reports, taking care of a RTOC scholarship recommendation, tire rotation and balance, oil change, brake pad replacement on the Tacoma (146k on a single set of pads!) and seat belt mount on the Willys....I am ready for a beer and to grill some steaks and maybe watch just a bit of college football....

FINOCJ

September 27th, 2019, 09:51 AM

Continuing with engine work...The initial timing was nicely set at about 10 BTDC, and the mechanical advance seems to work with increasing RPM, but the vac advance was not functional. So that started one of those simple repair turns into a big headache kind of projects. It was common for a sbc engine swap into Willys, and one reason is the sbc can be front mounted on the oem L6 engine mounts and then the only things that needs to be changed is the t90 transmission input shaft switched to the short t90 input (from a CJ). No cross-members changes need to be made, or changes to the floorpans for tunnel clearance etc, the transmission and transfer case all stays in the original position which also means the driveshafts and everything else can remain oem. The downside to this swap is the engine ends up a bit pushed rearward in the engine bay - thus the issues with the large fan to radiator spacing that causes some of my cooling issues - as well as chevy's have the rear mounted distributor which has clearance issues with the firewall. In the case of mine, the firewall was cut and notched for distributor clearance. Accessing the distributor and removal is a complete PITA (you have to remove the motor for the wipers, remove the coil from its mount and then generally injure your back to get to it. Here it is without the cap up against the firewall - the coil mounts to the bosses directly in front...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/18/P_20190918_181510.jpg

So I pulled the distributor to change the vac advance can, and to see if it was still running points or maybe a magnetic/pertronix style ignition had been installed. Classic large cap HEI has no chance of fitting the small space. Once I pulled the distributor - I realized its kind of different than what I am used to seeing on GM engines. Turns out, the hodgepodge that is my sbc (1957 283 block with early 60's intake and carb, also has a one year only 1955 distributor (from the sbc 265) that was quickly replaced with what most everyone knows as a the common GM sbc distributor. I am not sure why this distributor was used...its possible it was strictly for clearance issues as its a bit smaller than the common distributors that were used for the following 30 years. This distributor does not have the classic points adjustment screw with window in the cap, thus adjusting and measuring dwell with the engine running cannot be done....If must be done manually with a feeler guage with the distributor pulled.

breaker plate with points: pretty standard minus the points adjustment screw through the cap - it must be adjusted using the eccentric screw on the breaker plate:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/18/P_20190918_190323.jpg

disassembly usually starts with removal of the drive gear by driving out the roll pin...except on this one someone hammered/pressed over the roll pin ends (or just soldered it?) and thus grinding is needed to remove.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/18/P_20190918_190251.jpg

Anyway, figured while I was going to replace the vac can, figured I might as well replace the points to something I never have to deal with again given the difficult access. But finding a pertronix style ignition pick-up for this rare distributor seemed like it might just be easier to replace the entire thing with an aftermarket set-up...Of course, the aftermarket ones are just a bit bigger and don't clear the firewall. So a connection in Montana sent me his small cap Accel solid state distributor which is no longer in production (actually two units that each had issues, but could be combined into one functional unit with a bit of work - disassembly and swap of vac cans mostly).
Anyway - thought I was making progress...go to put the functional (hopefully) accel distributor in, and it won't clear for installation by about 1/2". At this point, I am frustrated enough that I decide I will 'make' it clear - bfh on the firewall, and eventually, just take the cut-off wheel and enlarge the notch. After hours in a back wrenching position trying to cut the notch and not anything else important, I finally got the distributor to fall in place...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/26/P_20190926_192524.jpg
The cap and rotor had to be removed to increase the clearance just enough for install. Now I have to get the rotor pointed in the right direction, hope I get the distributor installed with the gear on the right tooth so the timing is right and it will fire up. And maybe, I never have to take that damn thing out again, and then patch up the firewall. I am starting to hate engine swaps....

FINOCJ

October 4th, 2019, 11:47 AM

So...when trying to button up the distributor install, I found the coil bracket would need a bit of adjustment so the HEI module on the distributor housing would fit. Stupid me, I pulled the distributor for ease of work on the coil bracket, and somehow fumbled one of the mount bolts down into the hole for the distributor shaft....
The bolt could not be seen down on top of the oil pump shaft,
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/29/P_20190929_192520.jpg
and magnet down in and around didn't seem to find anything either. I got concerned that the bolt got deflected through the shaft opening and under the intake into the V8 valley. So the intake was removed....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/03/P_20191003_191957.jpg
no bolt...at least everything looks really clean and suggests this old unknown engine might have been taken care of. Next up is dropping the oil pan, and removal of the oil pump as maybe it slid past the pump shaft and is sitting on top of the pump gears - or maybe it made its way all the way into the oil pan. The adventure continues....

Jim

October 4th, 2019, 03:17 PM

The adventure continues....

This is squarely in the "adventure" column.

FINOCJ

October 4th, 2019, 10:18 PM

oil pan removed....found the bolt...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/04/P_20191004_204852_LI.jpg

Two of the oil pan bolts already had the hex heads twisted off - both on passenger side. Maybe be fun trying to extract those...There is a lot of oil leaking out somewhere. Those pan bolts might be part of the problem, but feeling like the main seals on front and rear are part of the problem as well...see what I can find out tomorrow and if its possible or a good time to change those now. Guess its good I found the bolt...but now its going to be harder to put it back together than it was to take it apart.

FINOCJ

October 8th, 2019, 10:07 AM

This is squarely in the "adventure" column.

yes it is...well....I thought things were going well....
Intake back on...this was a lot of hassle getting back on. Had to retap a number of the intake holes as well for the PS pump mount.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/06/P_20191006_153013.jpg

I am not sure the intake is properly sealed after all the hassle, but was buttoning up all the accessories etc and ready to move on to the oil pan...I even got the distributor HEI unit to clear the coil so I can set timing etc....but.... as I was wrapping up all the final install items and routing the spark plug wires....I found the mechanical oil gauge tube that goes into the rear of the block immediately behind the intake was broken off...guessing I damaged it when removing/installing the intake. I ended up taking the intake in and out a number of times as I was messing with threading holes and trying to get things to all align with the homemade PS pump bracket etc. Anyway, I got the threaded fitting out of the block using a socket and swivel joint, but not sure I can install a new one back behind the intake up against the firewall etc as is given the tube...none of my flare fitting wrenches seem to fit this damn metric fitting and there isn't much room for a wrench handle....may have to remove the intake again....http://earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?media/bang.2729/fullhttp://earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?media/bang.2729/fullhttp://earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?media/bang.2729/full ...we'll see. I was so disappointed to find that on Sunday that I just walked out. Ready for Moab....hope the cj5 is running well.

speedkills

October 11th, 2019, 05:50 PM

24 years since I rebuilt a quadrajet. That makes me feel old.

FINOCJ

October 20th, 2019, 06:21 PM

It took 8 hours, may of the them on my back under the willys and a couple trips to the hardware store, but I got the two broken off oil pan bolts out of the bottom of the block and hopefully retapped the holes successfully. I don't even know why I try using EZ-out or similar extractors - they never work. If the bolt head twists off from seized up threads, then the much smaller EZ-outs will never work. I guess I was hoping the bolts were broken for some other reason...of course I managed to break off the EZ-out in the first one, and broke a good drill bit off in the other. But with persistence and this little tungsten carbide metal shaving/grinding tool on the small rotary tool (dremel type thing) you can get some work done on hardened bits:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/20/P_20191020_162306.jpg
I managed to get the holes drilled out. I ended up having to drill out the holes with a 7/32" bit, which I think took some of the thread out as well, but I couldn't get the 1/4-20 tap to clean-up the thread when drilled with the smaller bit. The two 1/4 oil pan bolts thread in smooth and nice now, but they are just a bit loose and I worry about them stripping out when torqued hard. Of course, oil pan doesn't need too much torque and I test them with a spacer to about 15ft-lbs and it seems like they should hold. As the holes are blind I need to find a bottoming tap that will carry a bit more thread deeper in the hole and that may also help with preventing the threads from stripping. Otherwise its drill them completely out, and then tap to a larger size bolt and/or swap in a helicoil.
The two clean and threaded holes here - the two outside holes (these are passenger side):
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/20/P_20191020_163616.jpg
I also tried to beat the big dent out of the oil pan. The passenger side of the oil pan took a pretty good hit at some point and may have also been dragged over something. I wonder if this event might have been responsible for the broken oil pan bolts and leaky gasket. Anyway, this was not fine body work - just a wood dowel and a big hammer to beat it out. I debated just buying a new oil pan - until I saw the prices. This will work fine for now...just have to decide if I want to repaint it...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/20/P_20191020_163823.jpg

James Orofino

FINOCJ

October 20th, 2019, 06:23 PM

So next question...I got a one piece fel-pro gasket for the oil pan - its kind of a rubber or thick silicon gasket.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/20/P_20191020_161607.jpg
I have never used anything like it before (well the little rubber pieces on the intake ends - which many suggest just using a bead of RTV), and wondering what is the best install method. Should I use some sort of gasket tack or sealant or RTV on this thing? I've used plain old black RTV as well as permatex #2 and recently been using Permatex High Tack (the red liquidy stuff with the brush in the can), but that is with traditional paper, cork or hybrid composite of paper etc.

Brian

October 20th, 2019, 07:10 PM

Brian

October 20th, 2019, 07:16 PM

It took 8 hours, may of the them on my back under the willys and a couple trips to the hardware store, but I got the two broken off oil pan bolts out of the bottom of the block and hopefully retapped the holes successfully. I don't even know why I try using EZ-out or similar extractors - they never work. If the bolt head twists off from seized up threads, then the much smaller EZ-outs will never work. I guess I was hoping the bolts were broken for some other reason...of course I managed to break off the EZ-out in the first one, and broke a good drill bit off in the other. But with persistence and this little tungsten carbide metal shaving/grinding tool on the small rotary tool (dremel type thing) you can get some work done on hardened bits:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/20/P_20191020_162306.jpg
I managed to get the holes drilled out. I ended up having to drill out the holes with a 7/32" bit, which I think took some of the thread out as well, but I couldn't get the 1/4-20 tap to clean-up the thread when drilled with the smaller bit. The two 1/4 oil pan bolts thread in smooth and nice now, but they are just a bit loose and I worry about them stripping out when torqued hard. Of course, oil pan doesn't need too much torque and I test them with a spacer to about 15ft-lbs and it seems like they should hold. As the holes are blind I need to find a bottoming tap that will carry a bit more thread deeper in the hole and that may also help with preventing the threads from stripping. Otherwise its drill them completely out, and then tap to a larger size bolt and/or swap in a helicoil.
The two clean and threaded holes here - the two outside holes (these are passenger side):
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/20/P_20191020_163616.jpg
I also tried to beat the big dent out of the oil pan. The driver side of the oil pan took a pretty good hit at some point and may have also been dragged over something. I wonder if this event might have been responsible for the broken oil pan bolts and leaky gasket. Anyway, this was not fine body work - just a wood dowel and a big hammer to beat it out. I debated just buying a new oil pan - until I saw the prices. This will work fine for now...just have to decide if I want to repaint it...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/20/P_20191020_163823.jpg

James Orofino

I would recommend double checking the pan mating surface for any deformities that may have occurred while knocking out the dent. Try sitting it on the flattest table you have and try to rock it or get it to show some evidence that it's no longer perfectly flat. Sometimes the force to remove the dent can warp the mating surface enough to cause a leak. I went through three gaskets after knocking a dent outta my oil pan before I realized it was no longer "flat" and only a new oil pan and gasket stopped my leaking.

FINOCJ

October 20th, 2019, 08:18 PM

IMO, those blue Fel-Pro gaskets for the valve covers and oil pans are the shiznit, with no sealant required.

:2c:

Cool - will give it a try clean and dry (fel pro website says the same thing). If it doesn't work, it will leak oil just like it has been doing and like everything else does, so no big deal. Its pretty easy to try again at the next oil change.

FINOCJ

November 13th, 2019, 09:28 PM

Well finally got things back together and running again....
While I had things apart on the bottom, I added an adpater so I can run a traditional screw on oil filter cartridge, and got the oil pan on.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/10/28/P_20191028_205908.jpg

After fighting some distributor issues - the old Accel distributors a friends sent me just seem to not work anymore - I went with the traditional 60s-70's delco distributor with a Pertronix unit in it.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/11/08/P_20191108_183006.jpg

Fit seems to work in the space (although the cap and rotor have to be removed to put-in or take the unit out....Hopefully with the pertronix unit it won't need much attention. ALso added a new internally resisted coil to simplify some of the wiring and firewall clutter....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/11/08/P_20191108_203921.jpg

Then made it all legal...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/11/10/P_20191110_152858.jpg

FINOCJ

November 13th, 2019, 09:29 PM

ps - let me know if the photos don't work...seems like sometimes when I copy them from the ecj5 site, they don't always come across....

Tom

November 13th, 2019, 10:38 PM

ps - let me know if the photos don't work...seems like sometimes when I copy them from the ecj5 site, they don't always come across....
They work. That looks awesome James. Can’t wait to see it in person.

Jim

November 13th, 2019, 10:55 PM

Congrats!

FINOCJ

November 15th, 2019, 10:50 AM

They work. That looks awesome James. Can’t wait to see it in person.

Hoping to take it up to Longmont to help Trent on Sat...will be by far its longest trip from the house....if I don't make it to Trent's, you'll know why.

open_circuit

November 15th, 2019, 10:56 AM

If you make it to Longmont, you've gone too far to find me. Looking forward to seeing the wagon!

FINOCJ

November 15th, 2019, 11:05 AM

yes...Broomfield....still the longest road trip it will have made...

Jackie

December 1st, 2019, 03:41 PM

James - Here's another one for you!

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/447388609490521/

FINOCJ

January 9th, 2020, 10:31 AM

Dual MC set up with remote reservoir arrived today from R&P custom 4x4...Richards new R&P business (its in Oregon). Willwood MC with bracket to mount to frame for oem floor pedal set-up. Has remote reservoir that mounts on inner fender so it easy to check and fill fluid. Unlike the CJ the wagon doesn't have the inspection cover in the floor (and the sbc exhaust may also make access to the MC more difficult than the L6?), so this should make it easier to deal with. This MC works nicely with R&Ps disc set up with proper RPV - future project maybe, but for now I am keeping oem drums. Will hopefully start on this later this week...have DD maintenance tonight and skiing this weekend so....keep you posted.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/01/08/P_20200108_171137.jpg

FINOCJ

January 17th, 2020, 10:59 PM

Old MC out without damaging or mangling anything....probably will have some brake line bending and new fittings etc to make....and will have to figure out a brake light switch.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/01/17/P_20200117_195201.jpg
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/01/17/P_20200117_195243.jpg
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/01/17/P_20200117_211539.jpg

FINOCJ

January 25th, 2020, 12:10 AM

slow progress...mocked up the new mounting bracket from R&P - it uses the same 2 frame mounts the OEM MC uses the support mount on the pedal pivot - then fit the cylinder....now need to mock up the remote reservoirs which I intend to mount on the inner driver side fender?
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/01/24/P_20200124_180021.jpg
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/01/24/P_20200124_181045.jpg

Rocrawlr

January 26th, 2020, 09:06 AM

That's a good looking MC bracket, nicely done!

FINOCJ

March 5th, 2020, 10:05 PM

This brake project is the project that just doesn't make much progress....
After fitting up the MC install, it was time to work on the brake lines and figure out a brake light switch. I was thinking (hoping?) this was going to be pretty simple with just reshaping some of the ends of the brake lines by the MC, but it turns out the OEM brake line set-up was a bit surprising. There are 2 lines (different size) that come out of the junction block with the brake light switch. The small 3/16 line only goes to the front driver side. The larger 1/4 line goes around the front frame member and into a junction block by the front passenger side. One out line goes to the front passenger brake, and the other out line continues down the passenger frame rail and into another junction block at the rear axle - splitting to each rear brake. This is oem according to the FSM:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/02/28/P_20200228_183729.jpg

Here is the junction block at the passenger front - the 1/4 line from the MC comes in on the left. The right out is 3/16 to the passenger front wheel cylinder, and the bottom out is 3/16 and goes to the rear brakes.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/03/05/P_20200305_175909_008.jpg

As I want the new MC for the dual res/circuit aspect, I need the both front brakes plumbed together, and both rear brakes plumbed together. So new brakes lines it is....I am making a 3/16 line that will go from one MC res around the front (following the oem routing), but it will connect directly and only to the rear brake. Here is my initial attempt to bend it up:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/03/05/P_20200305_192847.jpg

I think it came out pretty welll - just one goofy spot on the front passenger. I used a small handheld bender and zip tied as I went along to hold it to the old line to help make sure all my bends matched the original and stayed 'on-plane'. I left some room on the MC end so I can figure out that fitting when more in place. The hard part will be getting it back in place and test fitting - may have to remove the radiator (argghhh). I don't want to flare the ends until I have it just right, but I might have to flare the MC end with the line in place...

The front circuit will be a bit more difficult - have to put a junction block (with light switch) soon after the MC, and then route the passenger line around the front as well....

FINOCJ

March 21st, 2020, 09:03 PM

Some progress...I almost feel like I made rough drafts of the brake lines, and now I should completely do them again without all the little errors....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/03/13/P_20200313_215143.jpg
The MC - the circuit coming from the back of the MC goes to the front brake distribution block I mounted in the frame channel. The top output goes the the front driver side drum. The other output that is empty will go around to the front passenger drum. The brake light switch will go in just above the mounting bolt. The circuit coming from the front of the MC follows the OEM routing along the front frame rail....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/03/13/P_20200313_214922.jpg
It then connects to the remainder of the rear brake line. The open connection is for the front passenger brake...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/03/13/P_20200313_215202.jpg

Chris

March 25th, 2020, 09:09 AM

Wow, nice find I just read for the first time. Great thread making me miss CO even more. :brody:

FINOCJ

March 25th, 2020, 10:36 AM

Should have some down time to continue to work on it over the next month....Been focus the last 1.5 weeks on basement work, and that will continue for a while longer. The garage is only so big, and its sort of set-up for the cutting the flooring and baseboards etc. Then painting the baseboards and once that is all done, its back to brake lines, and modifying a fan shroud in some way to help with cooling.

FINOCJ

March 31st, 2020, 08:49 AM

Brake lines finished...really hope the flare fittings seal.
New distribution block for the front circuit. Light switch will go into block as well.https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/03/30/P_20200329_163635.jpg
Reservoirs mounted
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/03/30/P_20200330_151240.jpg

FINOCJ

April 1st, 2020, 09:04 PM

Radiator shroud....Looking back in this thread you can see I replaced the radiator it came with which was not original (was seeping and did not fit very well)...There was a big gap between the radiator and fan, so I put a spacer behind the fan moving it forward, and also used some spacers to move the radiator back...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2019/09/14/P_20190914_200640.jpg
With the sbc swap, the fan sits pretty low and off to to the passenger side which doesn't help with cooling. Although it stays plenty cool when moving along, it wasn't quite enough to keep it cool when sitting in stop and go (mostly stop) traffic around here...So a fan shroud is needed and with the radiator out for the brake line work, now is a good time to do it...
Here was the homebrew shroud it came with from PO - which is now long gone...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/01/6275.jpg

I used a universal shroud kit with the push-through pins, did some slight modifications to the shroud and got it mounted on the radiator...With the sbc swap, the fan is low and quite off-center to the passenger side of the radiator...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/01/P_20200401_165733.jpg

After doing it, here are my thoughts: I don't mind the push-pin part so much, and the light shroud is solidly held in place...but the plastic threads and washers leave a lot to be desired. It doesn't take much to destroy/strip the plastic threads and wonder how long they will hold the shroud in place. Thinking of replacing the plastic push-pin with some small machine screws or like 1/4" bolts and better washers to go with the rubber washers and wing nuts - or maybe just use some nylock nuts in place of the wing nuts. Now that the plastic push pin has safely made the the 'hole' through the fins, it would be simple to replace with something a bit stronger. Of course, new bolts requires a trip to the hardware store....not my favorite activity right now...
Its not perfect, but I think its pretty good and hopefully it won't take much to keep it cool....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/01/P_20200401_171501.jpg

With the radiator moved to the proper forward position, the blade sits about right in terms of depth - the edge is right about half the blade. Plus there is no gap between the radiator and front grill which should funnel more fresh air over through the radiator helping cooling:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/01/P_20200401_171626.jpg

And I probably have a bit too much gap around the outside circumference - its probably 1.5-2" instead of 1" but still seems pretty good:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/01/P_20200401_171608.jpg

Moving the radiator forward to its proper mounting position has some benefits:
1) keeps fresh air coming through the grill also going through the radiator...with the 1" spacers, some fresh air coming through the grill could then bypass the radiator going through the gap between the grill and radiator. It also means fresh air from outside the grill is pulled through the radiator at slow speed, as opposed to pulling hotter air from the engine bay around and through the grill.
2) The Champion radiator fits perfect in terms of the mounting holes on the grill, but it leaves absolutely no clearance in terms of height between the front cross-member under the radiator, and the top of the radiator cap on the underside of the hood...The underside of the hood was sitting/rubbing the top of the radiator cap as it was, and the hood did not quite close the way you'd want it to. With the radiator just a bit further forward, there is just a smidge more room, and it feels like the hood closes properly, but it may still rub a bit.

Downside to moving the radiator forward...the fan is now farther away but hopefully the shroud will more than compensate and help it pull more air through the radiator. Also, the outlet hose on the radiator may be blocked by the battery tray support...This is gonna be close whether it will fit or not...but if not, I'll cut it out and weld it in differently...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/01/P_20200401_171734-1.jpg

FINOCJ

April 12th, 2020, 09:09 PM

Was ready to try and bleed the brakes etc...Only two of the cylinders would bleed properly...so had to dig into that a bit more. Actually, the RF cylinder had the bleed valve broken off down close enough to the cylinder that there was no way I could coax it out and replace.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/05/P_20200405_172554-1.jpg
And the RR wouldn't accept any fluid even with the bleeder completely removed - although there was good fluid at the fitting going into the cylinder. So, if you are going to replace 2 wheel cylinders you might as well replace all 4...and as these are old school drums, so old that you have to pull the wheel bearings and wheel hub to remove the drum (which is behind the wheel hub - sometimes called 'inboard' drums), that you might as well think about what else needs to be done - like new brake shoes.

So somewhat rebuilt front brakes - about as simple as they get with 2 springs and 2 clips. The rear brakes are identical except for an extra parking brake lever and actuator bar...didn't get a pic yet. Was also lucky that the rear hubs came off fairly easy with a BF hub puller and a repeated cycling of bottle torch heat and impact gun. The pic is the RF.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/12/15867310041685451761143503007545.jpg
These are Wagner 11" brakes with manual adjustment for the shoes (the two odd looking silver heads above the blue clips). Every few thousand miles you have to manually turn the adjustment to push the shoe out toward the drum so the wheel cylinder can push it the rest of the way. Can you imagine people having to manually adjust their brakes today every month or so!

I am glad I dug into them a bit more as the PO did not have them correct. First - the long shoe goes to the front of the drum on this old (40s/50s) style brake, which is unusual. Almost all drum brakes - especially those common on US auto makers since the 60s with automatic adjustment (braking in reverse) - you put the big on back (BOB) half of the drum. Its so common that almost everyone does it out of habit - even after reading in two spots in my factory service manual I went asking some willys experts just to be certain. As the front brake shoes does more of the braking in this set-up - the short ones the PO put in front were severely worn, and that was made worse as the manual adjusters were not correct, and again, only the front shoe was spaced properly and doing all the braking. Almost completely worn front shoes, with essentially untouched larger rear shoes...I am surprised it stopped as well as it did. I ended up buying a single shoe set - they went on the front axle, and am re-using the 4 best shoes for the rear axle. Although the small shoes are a bit worn, with the larger shoes in great shape and now on the front side of the drum, and that the rear brakes don't do nearly as much work as the front...hopefully it will work. Mostly, NAPA only had one set in stock and I don't really want to deal with lots of trips to the store right now...I'll probably regret not pulling the backing plates, replacing the axle seals, and then painting all the pieces for a true full rebuild, not to mention replacing the wheel bearings etc....but just trying to get this thing on the road for a bit. If this works well and I keep the old brake system, then at some point it'll get a full and proper rebuild, but this should do for now.

Jim

April 12th, 2020, 09:24 PM

How available are brake parts for this vehicle? Specialty parts shop online or the parts store in town?

FINOCJ

April 12th, 2020, 09:42 PM

How available are brake parts for this vehicle? Specialty parts shop online or the parts store in town?

Used to be about 50-50 (probably because cj parts are still around a little bit)...although its trending online more and more with the older Willys. NAPA carries some of it (and some of there stuff is pretty good quality), but its not always in stock or nearby warehouse (like only 1 set of shoes anywhere in the state). The local Carquest to me (now an advanced auto) has some old-timers working the counter as they were more of a parts supply to repair shops than serving walk-in customers - and they still have the big old ring binders filling up a huge shelf...they smile when i walk in cause they know its going to be something interesting and probably not in the computer system. They always give me the wholesale price that it would sell to repair shops for. And I think carquest had slightly better parts that AZ, AA or Oreillys. But now I am ordering more and more stuff online - either thru Summit racing or through jeep willys specialty suppliers. I got the wheel cylinders from Walcks in PA (nobody else had them - Summit had 3 out of 4 but not the last corner) - I get some cj5 stuff from them as well. Kaiser Willys in South Carolina also carries everything, but they tend to sell a lot of Omix parts which are made overseas and are pretty cheap and crappy. Walcks is pricey but will carry higher end stuff if possible, and they contract local suppliers to make some stuff to their specs, but they also carry a lot of Omix as well. For example, the Walcks brake shoes are $50/set plus shipping (another $20)....NAPA had the shoes for $24 after core credit. The Walcks stuff is probably better, made in usa quality, and fit is always exact whereas the NAPA etc stuff may or may not fit quite right.

FINOCJ

April 15th, 2020, 08:09 PM

Welp...I spent the last two day in a futile effort to bleed the brake system...Finally, with some help from my early jeep friends, figure out the issue...I feel like I've bled quite a few drum brakes over the years and never remember having this issue....I have 2 circuit system - one for the front and one for the rear (all brand new that I just built replacing the OEM single circuit system). The driver rear and driver front worked just fine, but both passenger side cylinders would not produce any fluid. I chased the fluid pressure at each fitting right up to the cylinders....but couldn't get it to come out of the cylinders. Finally, at the suggestion of a friend, I put the left rear drum on - I had not done this as the drum is 'inboard' of the wheel hub and is swedged to the hub - and putting the hub on an off of a tapered interference fit axle is not something I wanted to do more than once. But putting the left rear drum on (just enough to fit over the shoes) solved the problem on the rear!

Basially, without the drum over the shoes, the wheel cylinder pistons were moving all the way out taking up all the fluid displacement from the pedal movement. It was kind of humorous watching it move the left rear shoes (against the return springs) while the right rear was totally open (bleed screw pulled)? Seems like the open path would be preferred - I guess I don't know what the plumbing inside the wheel cylinder looks like, but its hard to imagine it could create enough backpressure when open to force the shoes on the other side to open against the springs. Anyway, with the rear good....

Time to solve the front right issue. In this case, both drums had been on fronts as you have to pull the wheel bearing and hub along with drum...I put them back on after repacking the wheel bearing and learning how the manual shoe adjustment cams worked - I never bent the lockwasher oveer the outer spindle nut so it would be pretty easy to get them off if needed. In this case, the it wasn't just the absence of the drums, but rather shoes were not adjusted to be close enough to the drums and were again just moving in and out taking up all the fluid displacement...so I adjusted the shoes to be out just against the drum on both sides - everything bled correctly. I am still completely surprised that an open wheel cylinder bleed valve is not the path of least resistance...but...I've spent some time around old jeeps, but still lots to learn. I know a lot of people have never work on drum brakes, but working on manual adjustment inboard drum brakes is even all new to me...lots to learn about on old iron...and now I need to spend a few days in detox as I have absorbed enough brake fluid and brake cleaner through my skin and lungs...maybe it will be back on the road one of these days....

FINOCJ

April 17th, 2020, 03:53 PM

picked up some wheels for it cheap (at least I thought so on CL - $120)...They are 15x8 (3.5" BS) but just couldn't find 16x7 anywhere near my current budget (or even 15x7 that I liked), and if I ever go that route, figure I can sell these for $100 without too much issue. Add the additional price of new tires, and the $900-$1000 final cost was just not in my budget range right now. And I do really like this wheel - its identical to the ones I ran on my cj7 20 years ago. I was hoping when I originally chatted with the seller than the tires might be usable for at least a bit, but 2 were mis-matched 235/75 and kind of junk, and the 2 on the rear are barely used 30x9.5, but they've been sitting out somewhere and are cracking and would only realistically work for little local putting around. I threw the 30s on the rear to see how they fit and how they looked...seems pretty good to me - front is still on jack stands so it might loose a bit of clearance when its dropped.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/17/P_20200417_135124.jpg

Was worried the 9.5" width might be too wide, but it just fits...not sure if it would hit at full stuff or not, but I think it might tuck in?
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/17/P_20200417_143054.jpg
The question is still what to do about tires - obviously I need something to drive on. Might consider picking up a set of used 235/75 Yokohama ATS ($300 mounted and balanced) as a temp solution or buying new (more like $500 mounted and lifetime balanced). For $200 I think I'd normally go new...but part of this wheel purchase was to get it back out on the road while figure out what comes next (both budget and project)...Ideally, still hoping for some 16x7 with 215/85 or 235/85, but that might require replacing the sagging leafs etc and is a lot of money. I will say, I am liking the look enough on the rear to maybe just buy new, and run it as is for a while...next up on the list will be the electric wiper motor and taking care of some electrical wiring (maybe an ignition relayed fuse box). Budget might drive this decision more than anything, and the desire to have it driveable....

FINOCJ

April 23rd, 2020, 09:06 AM

Working on putting stuff back together...I pulled the radiator to do the brake line work, as well as work on the radiator shroud (or whatever you want to call it - maybe more of a fan protector) and the positioning of the radiator. One of the issues has been the battery tray, which has been re-located to the right front inner fender as part of the sbc swap, blocks the output radiator hose on that side. The tray is mounted with two bolts to the inner fender, and has a support leg underneath that was welded to the frame that is the problem. Although this pic doesn't quite do it justice, the leg blocks about 1/4 or so of the hose outlet.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/01/P_20200401_171734-1.jpg

My thought is just to cut and move the support leg over toward the passenger side - and that is definitely doable, although it will pinch the fresh air inlet hose (when i get one) just a bit....no big deal. I am concerned that is mounted both to the body and frame...but that is how its been and I don't see any way. If mount only to the fender - battery and tray are heavy, and no easy way to re-enforce the body mounting. And no obvious way to only mount to the frame with the body still on....here is the mount location: 2 holes in the fender and you can see the front cross member is the basal leg support:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/19/P_20200419_142908.jpg

So I cut off the batter tray leg support at the frame and gave it a needed a bit of cleanup and paint. I also made a top half 'hold-down' that will go with it. Up till now the battery has been classically bungee corded in place. This will be way more solid with some threaded hook rods and wing nuts...I made it using only pieces of scrap I had sitting around so its bit goofy but I avoided C19 infection. My welds are not pretty, but they are better than whoever made the bottom tray!...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/19/P_20200419_15065976882a30c6ddaaec.jpg

Battery tray and radiator back in - modified the base leg support (aka bent it inward) and welded it back to the frame cross-member giving more space for the radiator hose to fit on the radiator outlet...sorry not best pic...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/22/P_20200422_145358.jpg

Also got my fabricated top of battery hold down in place and it seems like its going to work well...fans shroud clears everything nicely...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/22/P_20200422_145412.jpg

Exhaust has been put back on on the driver side (was removed to create more access space for the MC) and the brake light switch wired (but not tested)....coolant added...its ready to start up but can't go anywhere until tires come and get mounted....Tires might come in today....

FINOCJ

April 30th, 2020, 11:58 PM

While waiting for the new rubber to arrive, I decided to try and make the e-brake/parking brake functional....Most early cjs have a transfer case mounted drum brake, but the wagons and trucks had cable pulls to activate the shoes on the rear drums. Since I had the rear brakes apart,I knew all was good inside the drum - just needed to figure out the cable pull system....There were 3 different cable brake systems on wagons, and this is the one my 57 has - its a two cable system: the upper cable is connected to the T-handle in the cab, and that activates a lever with mechanical advantage that pulls the lower cable that goes to the brake shoes.

https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/26/Figure-1---Conventional-Hand-Brake-Arrangement.png

I knew something was broken in the upper cable as when the handle was pulled, nothing happened. The upper cable has a retention ball that fits into the sliding pull handle, but the cable was broken at that ball.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/25/P_20200425_173309.jpg

Here are the lever, pivot, equalizer etc all cleaned up, painted and ready to reinstall...I intend to re-use the existing lower cable that goes into the drums.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/26/P_20200426_163845.jpg

While I was under there trying to find the cable clamp on the transmission cross-member - there is so much grease/dirt and gunk that trying to scrape away inches of sticky gunk (and not for the first time) finally broke me down and I decided to pull the cross-member. It has been abused and the front lip was so bent back that it is essentially impossible to reach the nuts. So after some creative determine 'will get this effing thing off' work, I cleaned the 20lbs of oiled dirt off and bent the front edge back enough on the passenger side to allow access to all the mounting holes. Not sure if I am going to work on the other side or not - but the folded back part doesn't cover any mounting holes. The sad part is this is the 'after' photograph...its not pretty but it will work.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/26/P_20200426_162626.jpg

Finally - this allowed me to get to the D18 torque mount and bushing....add a new rubber bushing mount to the parts list...This was also motivation for removing the cross-member as I could see the bolt was loose but no way to access it with out removing the cross-member...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/26/P_20200426_165859.jpg

Here is the cross-member re-installed with the new transfer case torque mount...doesn't look like much, but lots of hassle getting that cross-member back in place with all the bolt holes lining up.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/04/30/P_20200430_165257.jpg

Trying to get the lower cable system finished up - but had another unexpected road block with that - more to come on that later. Of course, during this time working on the e-brake, the new tires arrived and have just been sitting in the corner waiting to roll....

FINOCJ

May 1st, 2020, 12:53 PM

I've never been disappointed in something I have bought from Walck's, but I was a bit this time...For many common use and replace parts, I try to get my stuff from summit or FLAPS as the prices are better. Walcks generally ask high prices, but when you can't get some unique items its usually part of the price and they have always been helpful and very timely with fulfilling orders and fast shipping (actually, I sometimes wish they had a more budget shipping option), and the fit is right and the part is exactly what I expected. But this time I ordered a 'new' upper cable for the e-brake system....and I received what I think is either a lightly used salvage piece (with yellow tag), or possibly a 'rebuilt' or 'new' piece that had then been left on a shelf for years and rusted....Its not a big problem - some wire brush/wheel and some sanding its mostly cleaned up, but it certainly didn't feel like 'new reproduction' as I felt it was advertised (Cable Hand Brake Front T Handle 1954-1959 Station Wagon, Sedan Delivery (https://walcks4wd.com/Cable-Hand-Brake-Front-T-Handle-1954-1959-Station-Wagon-Sedan-Delivery_p_2213.html)).

What I received had no rubber housing around the cable sleeve, and rusted ends...as said above, not a huge issue, just a bit disappointing...After I opened the package, I left the cable on the table and when my wife saw it, she assumed it was the broken one I took out and asked what was broken...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/01/P_20200501_104251.jpg

Anyway, its all cleaned up now, and I put a touch of paint on the ends so they don't rust again (was probably just a bit of flash rust when in storage?)....the end ball is all that was broken on mine - I probably should have tried to see if I could just get the inner cable with ball end....I might still and try to salvage it for a back-up or pass along to someone who could use it.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/01/P_20200501_104136.jpg

Jim

May 1st, 2020, 04:11 PM

What's FLAPS stand for again?

?
Local
Auto
Parts
Store

??

open_circuit

May 1st, 2020, 04:18 PM

Friendly ?

Tom

May 1st, 2020, 04:20 PM

Friendly ?
F#$&in

FINOCJ

May 1st, 2020, 07:46 PM

Some say 'friendly' - some prefer 'favorite'....

FINOCJ

May 4th, 2020, 06:04 PM

Made a few steps forward...and then another hiccup...
Made a bracket to hold the lower e-brake cable and welded it to the frame - tried to mimic the one that is still on the driver side.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/02/P_20200502_212240.jpg
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/02/P_20200502_212348.jpg

Got all the e-brake pieces (pivot arm, equalizer etc) mounted up, and got the T-handle assembly in the cab all set....But the upper cable I ordered is too long. Its not really that is too long, its that the inner cable is too long relative to the sleeve. The sleeve clamp is supposed to mount on the cross-member, but that leaves way too much wire sticking out the sleeve to operate the e-brake pivot arm...It need about 4-6 inches of the wire cut off, but I could not figure out if there any way to add the 'stop' that is on the end of the wire with no special tools. he pic is on the one I am removing - has the broken off ball on the other end - but you can see the PO kinked the wire up as it was pulled through and tied off on itself. I thought that was weird when I removed it, but now I know the PO was just trying to shorten the cable.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/02/P_20200502_213452.jpg

Obviously, I could mount the end of the sleeve farther away from the brake arm, but there are not a lot options in front of the cross-member - i could possibly mount it to a bellhousing bolt or something, but nothing is anywhere close to a good solution. Maybe a local shop shorten my cable, or possibly use some cable clamps - but I think I found a different aftermarket replacement option - more money spent but see what happens.

So tied everything up out of the way as wanted to get it out on the road on sunday for a bit of brake-test, and you really don't need a parking brake (especially when you aren't sure if the regular brakes are going to work). I've been chasing a bad oil leak since I got this thing...it comes from somewhere along the back of the engine, and with the firewall squeezed up so tight its hard to see whats back there. Anyway, I took it for a quick brake test drive around the block and when I got back there was oil dripping out everywhere along the back of the engine and bellhousing....I've thought quite a lot of it was due to struggles with the old school oil filter canister and then the oil filter adapter - which was a big problem - like it used to make a puddle of oil in a few minutes of idling. Now its just a few drips every minute. Its been hard chasing the leak as the entire engine block is covered in oil and its been hard to clean it with all of the self service car wash sprayers closed, but I did a bunch of hand cleaning when under there with the brakes and think I was able to track it to the back of the valve cover - especially on the rear driver side cover....When removing the covers, the cork gaskets were dry and cracked....I think this is the one that was most responsible for the biggest leak, but other areas are certainly seeping:
This is where I think the worst of the leak was coming from - back driver side corner of the driverside valve cover:

https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/03/P_20200503_175546.jpg

the valve cover that goes in that corner (had other gaping cracks as well):
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/03/P_20200503_175214.jpg

The passenger side also had lots of cracks - but they were on the high ends so not as leaky:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/04/P_20200503_194758.jpg

So cleaned up the valve covers and shot some left-over high temp paint I had sitting on the shelf - silver is all I had (was originally used for exhaust manifolds). They are currently curing in heat (BBQ grill)....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/04/P_20200504_154159.jpg

FINOCJ

May 16th, 2020, 11:14 PM

Even after redoing the valve covers, I had a lot of trouble with oil leaking during a couple short test drives....and not just an annoying drip, but enough that it renders it undriveable (say a quart in 100 miles or so)....so I did some searching...removed the front cover on the bellhousing and inspected the engine side of the flywheel - it doesn't seem like its coated in fresh oil that would be leaking past the RMS or the plugs mentioned above...And just for fun, I stuck my camera into the inspection hole on the passenger side of the bellhousing behind the clutch and tried to get a pic - hard to say if that is a big oil problem, but it just looks like a old, leaky engine - not a catastrophic oil leak:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/11/P_20200511_180648.jpg

I also removed the starter, the oil filter and the oil filter adapter (mostly to remove the front bellhousing cover) and that provide a bit more access. This is looking up along the passenger side of the bellhousing along the rear of the engine - this is one of the oil pathways I think and makes a puddle on the right below the road draft tube:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/11/P_20200511_180600.jpg

Here is a pic up the drive side bank where the freshest path of oil is that also creates a decent puddle dripping off the left bottom edge of the bellhousing. The driver side toe board/firewall is to the right, the rear of the exhaust manifold is across from the bolt end, and the top of the orange block is the outer rear corner of the valve cover. How much oil can you leak out of the VCs?
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/11/P_20200511_175829.jpg

And finally, looking further up towards the center of the back of the block again from the driver side - the camera is placed in front the through the floor brake pedal looking up back in there....you can see the bottom of the distributor with the black road draft tube and the oil pressure line that goes to the fitting there as well...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/11/test.jpg

All of this led to removing the valve covers, distributor (which has to be taken apart in 3 separate pieces to remove while I climb on the front bumper and then lay across the intake manifold - stupid rear mounted chevy distributors! - made worse by an engine swap that has a firewall notch to fit it), coil bracket, carb, intake manifold, oil pan, oil pump, rear main seal, oil filter and adapter piece. Most things looked pretty good, but here is the rear intake gasket....definitely part of the problem. There is also an oil pressure line fitting back there as well that cannot really be accessed without removing the intake - so that got checked and tightened up just a bit....the road draft tube also appears to be leaking (although its not a high pressure oil zone) but no idea how to fix that.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/14/P_20200514_130112.jpg

Last fall, I couldn't see the rear gasket when installing, but I know the front one wanted to keep 'squeezing out' as it was tightened down - was really hard to evenly tighten down, and even then, the get the bolts to torque spec seemed to squish the front gasket out - looks like the rear suffered as well....No end gaskets this time, just an RTV bead and the side fel-pros. .

But starting all new with replacement everything...and I think I am going to go back to using Ultra Black as my RTV of choice. So I am back to where I was 8 months ago with the oil pan off, the oil filter adapter off, the carb off, the distributor out, the intake off and add in the valve covers are off....that should about cover it right. Any reason to pull the heads at this point...http://earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?media/rolleyes.2776/full. I am going to redo all gaskets including the oil filter adapter gaskets....don't know that I will do them any better than I did last time but it can't be worse (hopefully).

FINOCJ

May 16th, 2020, 11:18 PM

Almost done getting stuff back together, but took a little side-trip this afternoon....I inspected the carb (it was off the manifold) to see if I could figure out any linkage or mistakes I made during the rebuild - it just doesn't feel like its ever opening up the secondaries. Now, I've never driven a quadrajet (or even a 4 barrel carb I don't think), but my gut feeling is that when those much bigger secondaries open, it should be noticeable. First I noticed for what little driving its seen, there was already quite a bit of varnish and gunk building up - especially around the secondary choke plate and butterfly - it was a bit sticky as if it hasn't been operating. When moving the throttle linkage, there are two tabs - as the throttle linkage opens, the upper tab moves down until it pushes on the lower tab. As the lower tab moves, it is connected to linkage that opens the secondary butterfly.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/16/P_20200516_153151.jpg

On the bench. all seemed fine, but when I put it back on the manifold and connect the pedal linkage....The throttle was bottoming out just about the time the upper tab hit the bottom tab - and thus the secondaries were never opening...Here it is with the gas pedal floored - the two tabs just touching, but the bottom tab has not moved.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/16/P_20200516_153208.jpg

I thought I was going to have to figure out some changes to the gas pedal to allow for more travel, but then through some internet research, found that the quadrajet has different mounting locating for the pedal linkage.....In the case of the one I have, it has 3 positions represented by the 3 holes....The pedal linkage was in the middle hole. As the throttle rotates the mounting holes on an arc, the same amount of pedal movement can create different amounts of throttle rotation....So I moved the pedal linkage to the lowest, innermost hole, such that it will cause more rotation.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/16/P_20200516_190110.jpg

Now it allows for the the upper tab to move into the second tab and continue moving to open the secondaries, all with the same pedal range of motion. It will also make the gas pedal a bit more sensitive to subtle changes, but going to give it a try. I might even get the return spring out of the uppermost throttle hole and down to its appropriate mounting location on the bottom-most tab and run it towards the firewall - possibly using the coil bracket mount. So we'll see if it'll open up and go when the pedal is mashed!

FINOCJ

May 30th, 2020, 09:07 PM

Trying to address the overheating issue...the mechanical fan is not effectively placed or spaced from the radiator, and building a shroud for it seemed challenging given the off-center aspect....so a SPAL electric fan is going to be the solution hopefully, but that will require an upgrade to the electrical system as the electric fan will pull almost 19amps. I also wouldn't mind upgrading the windshiled wipers to an electric motor as well, so increasing the electrical capacity from the 30amp externally regulated generator to an internally regulated 60 amp (10SI) alternator will have to be part of the deal.
So started with figuring out how to mount the alternator....Decided to modify the existing homemade bracket that mounted both the PS and generator so I could swap the alternator in for the generator....
Used on of these F-brackets to mount on the exhaust manifold:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/30/s-l225.jpg

Then had to modify the lower portion of the homemade PS bracket...went from looking like this:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/30/P_20200530_140957.jpg

to looking like this:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/30/P_20200530_174754.jpg

Final set-up - using a 3 wire, 63amp 10SI....hopefully that is enough as the fan will pull 18-19A alone, but nothing else other than standard ignition, headlights, heater fan and maybe eventually, electric wiper motor:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/05/30/P_20200530_175903.jpg

Jim

May 30th, 2020, 10:02 PM

FANTASTIC!! That was QUICK action on the issue.

Jeeping Thursday must have cleared the mind! :D

FINOCJ

May 30th, 2020, 10:27 PM

The bracket was a bit of a hack job, but if it works....wiring the details next, maybe a fuse box. Will need to figure out mounting the fan and the thermostat sensor...long way to go still, but it's a start.

Jim

May 30th, 2020, 11:21 PM

FWIW - this is the heater hose water temp sensor fitting I have:

https://hesco.us/products/30790/cooling-system/128580/84540-heater-hose-fitting

Not inexpensive - but it does what it's supposed to do (hold the sensor and not leak).

FINOCJ

June 1st, 2020, 10:36 PM

wondering if I could use something like this under my thermostat housing...
https://www.jegs.com/i/Meziere/680/WN0028U/10002/-1

Jim

June 1st, 2020, 11:08 PM

I like it!

I'm guessing clearance issues between the 'spaced out' t-stat housing to the fan blades won't be an issue with an electric fan, no?

I like the location better than the heater hose location. Clearance concerns for the temp sensor - it'll fit / won't be too wide of a diameter or be blocked by some other nearby part?

FINOCJ

June 2nd, 2020, 09:00 AM

Plenty of room - it comes off the front top of the intake manifold right between the v8 cylinder banks - nothing else in the area....just need to investigate the o-ring vs gasket sealing methods and what is interchangeable.

Trevor?

June 2nd, 2020, 09:05 AM

FINOCJ

June 2nd, 2020, 09:12 AM

Various sizes to splice into a water hose:

https://www.glowshiftdirect.com/water-temperature-adapters/ (https://www.glowshiftdirect.com/water-temperature-adapters/)

Would allow you to get the sensor off of the block and closer to the radiator... not sure if that's really all that necessary but its something a little different. Trade-off would be that it adds two hose clamped connections compared to your thermostat spacer.

Will that work/fit with a temp sending unit from another company - as in is it just a threaded port - is it something more unique/integrated with their own product (like a temp gauge)? I think I would want to use the sending unit that comes with the fan to alleviate any concerns about compatibility.

Jim

June 2nd, 2020, 09:42 AM

sorry, not my meaning. Will it work / fit by having the sending unit sticking out that close to the block and other stuff in the area.

FINOCJ

June 2nd, 2020, 09:55 AM

sorry, not my meaning. Will it work / fit by having the sending unit sticking out that close to the block and other stuff in the area.
On later sbc engines, the normal port is in the head...Shouldn't be a problem to have it on the thermostat housing (or between intake and thermostat housing). I think I will have to change the thermostat as well from the current 190 to a 180 as the Spal set-up assumes a 180 (although it might be adjustable).

Trevor?

June 2nd, 2020, 10:32 AM

I've got a 46mm one in a box of van parts that's yet to be installed. The threaded port is 1/8"NPT. Just checked it with a fitting. If its not your sendor's thread that should still be easy to adapt to. Even if it's not I suspect your fan came with a bimetal temp switch. If so, they're easy to spec and should not have an issue like an analog sensor could.... but I agree using the switch you have is the best option.

Also... there's plenty of room to drill it out and tap it 1/4NPT or any other common fitting.

FINOCJ

June 2nd, 2020, 02:10 PM

the temp sensor is 3/8NPT....there are a few different ways to hopefully solve this problem. I wish we had old school speed shop where you could see stuff in person. I hate having to figure it all out online and then order online and if it doesn't work or isn't what I expected, send it back etc...The process seems painfully arduous and slow unless you know exactly what you want....plus some good ol counter help would be nice as well.

FINOCJ

June 2nd, 2020, 02:11 PM

Wondering if I could improve the belt drive system a bit as I am concerned about driving the water pump as is (although that is probably how its been for a long time). With the current PO set-up, a single belt around the crank drives all three additional pulleys (water pump, PS, Alt). Sorry for the low quality sketches, but they give a good idea of what I am talking about, and whether I should switch to a 2 belt system.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/06/02/P_20200602_125945-1.jpg
My main concern with the current set-up is the limited amount of belt-pulley interface on the water pump. I am thinking of switching the WP to a 2 groove pulley and utilizing the existing 2 groove pulley on the PS pump and running that as a separate belt system. That would leave the alternator to work on the original main pulley groove and wrap the the belt much closer to 90 degrees around the water pump. Worth getting a new 2 groove pulley for the WP to do this?

Jim

June 2nd, 2020, 03:31 PM

If you're going multi-V pulleys, could you easily run two belts to power the water pump?

FINOCJ

June 2nd, 2020, 03:41 PM

don't have a 2 groove pulley at the crank...and not sure how difficult that is to replace with the harmonic balancer et al.

FINOCJ

June 2nd, 2020, 04:27 PM

I also just realized that the PS pump mount is fixed - it has no adjustment for belt tension, so running that on a separate belt is probably out.

Trevor?

June 2nd, 2020, 05:46 PM

I might have a 3/8-18 NPT tap at work. Having one of these adapters in hand, it does have plenty of meat to drill and thread a new hole into the aluminum. I would need the sensor along with your adapter to make sure the hole was tapped to the correct depth with the taper and all. If you're interested, let me know.

What about a flat idler pulley pushing into the back of the belt somewhere to add tension? You'd have to make another bracket with an adjuster, but based on your alternator bracket it seems like you've got what you need to make that happen. A flapwheel and some spraypaint and it would look just fine.

FINOCJ

June 2nd, 2020, 10:23 PM

I'll definitely let you know if I go that route....going to order some pieces tonight and we'll see where it leads.

The StRanger

June 2nd, 2020, 10:25 PM

??? SERP belt ????

FINOCJ

June 11th, 2020, 11:39 PM

Started the electric fan install...here is test mount using 4 straps around the sides to hold it in place...Once finalized in place and tightened down with proper hardware etc, its very solid. I was thinking a 5th strap over the top to the flat front panel behind the top of the grille could be helpful with supporting directly against its weight - but it would certainly look a bit shabby (like that matters given my other work on this thing), and at this point not sure it needs it.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/06/06/P_20200606_212016.jpg

Mounted the relay for the electric fan on the inner fender and roughed in the wiring...after testing, if all is good, it'll get cleaned up a bit and taped etc...I am also going to put a junction post on the lower inner fender for +12V that will tie the battery and alternator together and provide a good take off point for high current needs on a relay (such as the fan). Am also putting in a junction post on the inside of the firewall for keyed +12V to switch relays, power the tachometer and eventually a voltmeter and whatever else might be needed. In the short term, keeping the OEM set-up with aftermarket 60A ammeter (from PO) to go with the 60A alternator I just installed. At some point, I would hope to finalize the general wiring like I did the cj5, with a couple of fuse boxes and volt meter set-up etc.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/06/11/P_20200611_211341.jpg

For the temperature sending unit for the fan relay - I went with a spacer under the thermostat housing that has 2 threaded ports - used one for the sending unit and plugged the other one. Okay, I might have done this wrong, but better to know now and fix it than have it cause an issue - I left the thermostat mounted in the intake manifold in the little groove, and put the spacer on top (with the o-ring down). Then I put the housing on top of the spacer with RTV (didn't have a spare gasket). I put just a touch of thread sealant on the first couple threads of the sending unit, but didn't want to use too much and cause any issue with the sending unit not grounding properly.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/06/11/P_20200611_211100.jpg

As I had to dig around under the dash to find the keyed 12V wire from ignition, I also did some wiring clean-up and got some of the speedo cluster gauges working. Got all of the interior dash and auxiliary gauge lights wired to the correct headlight switch terminal so they come on with the parking lights. Replaced some of the bulbs, so the general backlight on the speedo is working, and also got the Amp light wired in and working! (I stole the 2-wire oil light socket as I am not using it - separate mechanical oil pressure gague). Hoping to get the Hi-beam indicator working - it has a new bulb and wired in, but I think I popped a fuse, or tripped the circuit breaker at some point - so lost the headlight functionality (forgot to disconnect the battery at some point in my many back and forth's testing things, and sparked the headlight switch with a screw driver). I think there is a circuit breaker on the back of the headlight switch that should reset? maybe there is also an inline fuse somewhere? I am not using the speedo temp gauge - but both the fuel and temp test like they will work, so at some point I'll have to drop the tank to see what is going on with the fuel sending unit.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/06/11/P_20200611_213947.jpg

Jim

June 12th, 2020, 12:59 PM

Nice work!

Thanks for the temp sensor adapter pic - I was thinking it was on the front of the motor. What temp does the elect fan turn on / off? What temp thermostat are you running?

FINOCJ

June 12th, 2020, 01:37 PM

Another small step - got the high beam switch and indicator light working.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/06/12/P_20200612_120605.jpg

When I got it, the headlights came on when the switch was pulled out, but not sure the high beams were coming on or not. I think the lights flickered when the dimmer switch was pushed, but not sure anything was actually changing. Based on how it was wired - I think it was just using a side terminal post as a junction block and connecting the wire from the headlight switch directly to the low beams. The high beam wire was on the center terminal (?) and the dash indicator was on the 3rd terminal and no bulb. I am not all that jeep or wiring savvy, but it doesn't seem that hard to get it right.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/06/12/P_20200612_115553.jpg

Green wire from headlight switch to the center post, wire to low beams to one side post (right in the case), and wire to high beam to the opposite side post along with the dash indicator light to the high beam post. Pretty easy to check the switch functionality with a multi-meter to see which circuits closed when. Headlight relay may be in the future, but one thing at a time for now just to get it back to working - and probably some new wires from the fender junction block to the lights etc.

Might be time to start it and test everything out a bit....http://earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?media/worry.2782/full

FINOCJ

June 12th, 2020, 01:49 PM

What temp does the elect fan turn on / off? What temp thermostat are you running?

I am running a 180 thermostat (oem for the old 283). The SPAL fan wiring set-up comes with option for either a 185 or a 195 sending unit. I got the 185 as its recommended for a 180 thermostat. The fan will kick on at 185 - so just a bit after the thermostat is fully open at 180 (assuming they 'measure' temp equally). The fan is set to turn off at 165. I am a bit concerned about the 165 off temp, as when I am cruising on the highway with good RAM air flow, I want the fan to kick off, but not sure if it will ever get cool enough to kick off. If it is an issue, I can try to the 195 sending unit - it kicks on at 195 (which would be a bit too warm, but it shuts off at 175). Its $35 for the sending unit so can test it out if desired. SPAL is making some variable speed fans that adjust fan speed on a continuum based on the sending unit reading - not simply on/off. Seems like a cool idea, but the prices are HIGH compared to the already pricey standard unit I got.

Jim

June 12th, 2020, 03:41 PM

I am a bit concerned about the 165 off temp, as when I am cruising on the highway with good RAM air flow, I want the fan to kick off, but not sure if it will ever get cool enough to kick off.

Is this fan a conventional DC bush based fan?

IF the fan switch was ON while at RAM air speeds, you might find that it's drawing very few amps - and there's a chance it could be converted into a generator. It'd be curious to test the circuit (amp draw vs. supply) at different speeds. Under this thinking (if correct) - it'd likely not be an issue to your overall power demands at freeway.

FINOCJ

June 12th, 2020, 04:55 PM

Well...kinda of hopeful...its nearing 90 here and cruised around my area of town a bit...sat in traffic and red lights etc, cruised on the hwy a little bit, let it idle for awhile in the driveway, cruised around a bit more....maybe, just maybe this might be the solution....FWIW, I don't think the fan ever turned off once it kick-ed on. Fortunately, the 10SI alternator puts out decent current even at low rpm (idle), so it should be able to keep up most of the current needs much better than the old style generator that is very rpm dependent. The amp gauge does drift slightly negative suggesting the alternator isn't quite enough and needs a bit of battery current - and that would probably be more so if the headlights were on. I could bump the idle speed up just a tad to help a bit with alternator output. I am really liking the AGM battery that I put in the cj5 last summer, so that would also be an option for this considering it may go through a lot of discharge, charge cycles (albeit not deep cycling like a winch pull etc).

Is this fan a conventional DC bush based fan?

IF the fan switch was ON while at RAM air speeds, you might find that it's drawing very few amps - and there's a chance it could be converted into a generator. It'd be curious to test the circuit (amp draw vs. supply) at different speeds. Under this thinking (if correct) - it'd likely not be an issue to your overall power demands at freeway.

I believe its tradition brush based fan....the variable speed spans are the high end brushless fans (supposedly last 3-6x longer in terms of use hours, not to mention the variable speed to match engine temp needs). I am less worried about electrical power consumption at high speeds, and more about the fan restricting air flow - of course a mechanical fan would be equal if not worse. As this is at most a 60 mph cruiser for now (maybe with an OD I'd feel better about higher speeds - but the current 3 speed with 4.27 gears and 30" tires means 3000 rpm at 60mph), I don't have to worry too much about it. It is quite simple to add in an override on-off switch - that might be interesting to do so I could test turning it off at hwy speeds, as well as you could turn it off at water crossing etc. Mostly, I worry about that type of set-up as I would forget to turn it back on and boil it over....

Jim

June 12th, 2020, 07:39 PM

I'd use it as-is and see how it performs. I don't imagine you'll have the issues you're concerned with (fan restricting airflow [causing overheat?]). The air that wants to flow will push the free spinning blades out of the way.

As for a water crossing, elect fan "off" function - these tickle my mind...

1) Use a simple push-and-hold to disable button. When released the fan is back to normal
or
2) A flip off to disable allowing two free driving hands - and it runs a buzzer when off - enough volume to get your attention to flip to enable / normal operation
or
3) A timed disable function (1 or 2 minutes perhaps). Push to disable and the X minutes timer starts and after that - it's back to normal. (I can help with this setup - I have a 1-hour after ignition off accessories stay on circuit in the jeep - GPS power and USB power ports).

FINOCJ

June 12th, 2020, 10:52 PM

I don't imagine you'll have the issues you're concerned with (fan restricting airflow [causing overheat?]). The air that wants to flow will push the free spinning blades out of the way.

Not sure the blades will be free spinning though? But you are probably right as my experience and concern probably has more to do with fixed mechanical fans (like on the cj), where as I push the upper limit of speed in the aerodynamic equivalent of a windblock, the engine is forcibly turning the fan against air when it doesn't need to and sucks up a little bit of engine power - and a little bit of engine power in an old jeep is a valuable thing. I hate messing with the cj as it runs great, but maybe a clutched mechanical fan would be useful to get a little more hwy go out of it? None of it is going to matter right now....

A flip off to disable allowing two free driving hands - and it runs a buzzer when off - enough volume to get your attention to flip to enable / normal operation
that might be a good option - I usually just like a light on my toggle switch - maybe because in the cj, you often can't hear much with the wind or top noise.

Jim

June 13th, 2020, 12:06 AM

If you're doing water crossings where wind noise is an issue - please, let me be there first with a video camera :lmao:

FINOCJ

September 10th, 2020, 11:34 AM

Going to try and get the windshield wipers up and working on the 58 wagon....its quite the mechanical system of cables and pulleys. I am hoping to replace the OEM vacuum motor with an electric motor, but also need to get the cable system up under the dash working correctly. It should look like this when done right....not many wiper systems like this these days:
53 willys wagon windshield wipers motor works but blades don't move (https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/53-willys-wagon-windshield-wipers-motor-works-but-blades-dont-move.15829/post-164860)53 willys wagon windshield wipers motor works but blades don't move
https://www.oldwillysforum.com/favicon.ico www.oldwillysforum.com

FINOCJ

September 16th, 2020, 10:19 PM

Have three projects going on with the wagon right now - and none of them are going well:
1) leaking heater core - the Colorado Radiator repair shop on I-70 and Oneida closed, so I am trying a new one - Serck services. They say it cannot be repaired, and they will have to build a whole new core for it. There are no direct aftermarket replacements - some are close, but would require modifying/cutting/drilling etc the old heater box housing to fit the new ones - and the hose nipples would not be ideal. Difference in cost is $250 vs $70.....

2) working getting the windshield wipers working - the cable and pulley system is functional and getting cleaned up, but the electric motor upgrade (over the OEM non-functional vacuum motor) doesn't fit with the air filter cleaner on the sbc....going to have to find a different air filter housing....and then the really frustrating part will be the wiper motor will have to be removed prior to removing the distributor (which is also the case for the vacuum motor), but not sure I can get set-up do so easily.

3) In addition to puking oil out of all the gaskets, it also seems to consume lots of oil - so I finally got around to doing a compression test. The numbers are not good - they should be around 120 assuming an 8 or 8.5:1 CR and that we are at high altitude here. These were run dry - the numbers are so bad I didn't even try a 'wet' test with oil. Doesn't really matter if its bad rings or bad valve seal etc.
1: 60
2: 80
3: 75
4: 70
5: 90
6: 90
7: 80
8: 80

derf

September 17th, 2020, 09:01 AM

Oof. That's a tired engine for sure.

FINOCJ

September 17th, 2020, 10:28 PM

The heater core sprung a significant leak last week. Pulled the core and it looked like its probably been seeping for a long time, and finally went all out. Took it to a local radiator shop to see if they could repair it......
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/14/IMG_20200914_103525.jpg

In the end, the leak was in the core and not the tanks, so the shop to replaced/rebuilt the heater core - hope it was money well spent. I think the spectre 94478 would work in both the old willys and ecj5s with a bit of minor mods to the heater box....here is the repaired core - looks good from my vantage point (but what do I know):
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/17/IMG_20200917_202804.jpg

Took the entire heater and blower system apart to clean it and get it functioning just a bit better - guessing from the size of the core and the fresh source is all just like the cj, that this thing is as much a placebo heater as anything, but I'd like it to at least function and look decent. Took it all apart and cleaned however many years of gunk, dirt and whatnot out of and off of everything. The plenum assembly always seemed to rattle around etc - turns out it is probably a homemade replacement for the old cardboard style. Its made out of something like galvanized flashing and riveted together - but it actually seems to be pretty darn solid. The diverter/flapper was reused and the dual outlet is also steel - so maybe oem as well.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/17/IMG_20200917_175317.jpg

I think if I would have made one - I would have welded it together from thin sheetmetal. It has a lot of sharp edges at the overlaps and corners, as well as the seams are not airtight (although the oem cardboard one weren't after a few years either), so wonder if that has any significant affect on airflow out the defroster etc. At some point it had been held to the blower housing with a few screws - but most of those where gone and it was barely holding together with some dry rotted duct tape. I attached them together much more solidly with 2 screws on each side, trimmed and worked on fitting the joint together nice and tight, and used a little hammer work to tighten up and smooth over most of the open gaps and rough edges etc. I think it came out pretty darn well.....certainly worth re-using instead of buying the plastic aftermarket ones....The biggest concern is there is there is a bit bigger gap around the diverter (between the diverter flap and the inside of the tunnel) than I would like, so not all of the air will get diverted into the defroster.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/17/IMG_20200917_202940.jpg

The rest of the heater box and housing has also been cleaned up - there was a lot of rust and corrosion etc, and its not easy to get in all the nooks and crannies, but its also looking really good. Was going to let the paint finish drying and put it all back on the willys, but I am thinking I am about to pull the engine, so might as well leave it out.

Jim

September 17th, 2020, 11:44 PM

It looks nice now!

As for rust in the nooks - how about setting it into a tub of Evapo-rust?

Might some of the HVAC silver tape do a nice job sealing while hopefully lasting much longer than duct tape?

FINOCJ

September 18th, 2020, 12:15 AM

Evaporust would probably work well. Don't know about hvac vs duct tape...but did get to thinking I could spray it with that rubberized 'flex seal' stuff you see advertised all the time.

Jim

September 18th, 2020, 02:30 AM

This has me thinking - could the MD cord weatherstrip work? I bought a box and used it on my HVAC box. I have a couple hundred feet left over - I'll bring it to the cleanup run on Saturday (along with the seat slide).

https://www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Building-Products-1-8-in-x-90-ft-Flexible-Caulking-Cord-Weatherstrip-71548/100353483

FINOCJ

September 21st, 2020, 09:45 PM

Re-did the compression test with a hot engine and all the plugs out - seems a little better:
#1: 100
#3: 105
#5: 130
#7: 115

#2: 118
#4: 105
#6: 112
#8: 112

Then did a leakdown test on #1: 20% loss on two separate tests
Using a rubber hose, the loudest most obvious out flow was the dipstick tube, next was the valve cover breather (immediately above #1), then the carb horn when throttle plate is opened, and then the road draft tube. No sound in the exhaust system, nor in the radiator, nor in the adjacent cylinder. Kind of sounds like intake valve issue - and probably some worn rings as well? That was just number #1....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/21/IMG_20200921_200839-1.jpg

FINOCJ

September 22nd, 2020, 08:37 PM

Another little project - Replacing the glove box....I sorta copied this idea from a member of the Early cj5 forum...and although the wagon is similar to the cj5, the dash and glovebox area are not exactly the same.

The aftermarket replacements are either cheap plastic that likes to crack (have that in my cj5), or OEM style restoration with oiled cardboard - and for around $50-$60 shipped to me, neither seemed all that great. So I used one of the cheap $10 50cal ammo cans from HF. The lid slides right off the hinges and I removed the handle so it wouldn't rattle around when driving. Comparison of the cardboard box (which I would guess is not OEM, but some proper fitting aftermarket replacement) with the ammo can:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/22/IMG_20200922_083121.jpg

Dimensions for the cardboard box is just about 10.75"x5" for the front opening and 9.5" deep.
as compared to the ammo can at 11"x5.5" for the front opening and 7" deep.
The bottom dash support in the wagon is different than the flat edge in the cj5 - there is actually two lips on the wagon - the OEM box mounts just under the upper lip, and the door hinge mounts on the lower lip. The ammo can fits better on the lower lip, so mounting took a relief cut on the bottom of each side as well as removal of one of the hinges (eventually I removed the next hinge as well to make clearance for the side mounting hole and nut):
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/22/IMG_20200922_121743.jpg

And then the outside back corner needed clearance (I was expecting at only 7" deep, I wouldn't run into any interference, but the extra half inch of height and inflexible metal doesn't quite fit):
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/22/IMG_20200922_121758.jpg

So that led to the question of whether to leave the corner open or to try and weld in thin sheet metal to keep the box 'enclosed'. I went with the weld in a patch, which was a bit tedious given the how thin the can sides are - maybe 22 gauge? I had some 18 gauge sheet metal I made the patch from, and it was thicker than the ammo can. Even at the lowest setting, it was trying to burn the can away more than weld it. Its not pretty, but it won't be visible once painted and installed....If I did it over again, I probably would skip the patch and just leave the open corner....(or maybe overlap the patch and spot weld it in)....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/22/IMG_20200922_142400.jpg

Need to cut a relief slot for the door hanger (its an odd arrangement, but its how its done on the original ones as well) - I am using the same bottom mounts as the door hinges use (not the same ones the cardboard box uses), so can test fit that on the bench....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/22/IMG_20200922_162141.jpghttps://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/22/IMG_20200922_162109.jpghttps://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/22/IMG_20200922_162152.jpg

Add a couple holes on the sides - spacer required on one side between the dashboard tab and the inside of the can as the box is just a bit wider than the OEM. To minimize interference with the top of the cowl and to simplify the door hanger hook slot, I chose to push the box to the driver side and put the spacer there.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/22/IMG_20200922_180319.jpg

As the can mounts on the lower frame lip, whereas the OEM box uses the upper lip, there is a bit of dead space back under the upper lip - might eventually fill that with a bit of spongy foam or whatnot to keep things from disappearing under it....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/22/IMG_20200922_174824.jpg

It needs cleaning and painting....but the test fit looks good and its mounted solidly. Going to get some grey paint instead of dark so its easier to see the stuff inside of it. This should outlast the willys at this point.

Jim

September 22nd, 2020, 08:58 PM

SWEET!

The StRanger

September 23rd, 2020, 12:07 AM

Luvin it.
Im really into the rat rod stylin..

tirefoamcan

September 24th, 2020, 01:51 PM

Awesome project! Lots of work, but so rewarding!

Makes me miss working on my old Ford tractor, lots of memories with the generator catching fire, me running back to the barn for a wrench to get the battery off, hoping the tractor wouldn't be on fire when I got back.

How's the pertronix holding up? I went through 2 of them failing and the new owner stayed with points.

The ammo can glove box is a great idea.

FINOCJ

September 24th, 2020, 02:39 PM

How's the pertronix holding up? I went through 2 of them failing and the new owner stayed with points.

Interesting - never heard of issues with them. In the old jeep world, pertronix is well regarded and is the common upgrade for both the F134 and 225v6. The one in my cj5 has been there for over 5-6 years. I ran points for a while, but continual maintenance of the points and gap can be a PITA if the distributor doesn't have the window to access while running. Additionally, the condensers are so cheap and iffy, that more than half of them are dead upon opening the package. I also seem to get a bit of oil that migrates up the distributor shaft and makes its way through the felt 'seal' (hard to get quality rebuilt distributors for the odd fire v6 - Cardone is sort of the default and is of ho-hum quality) which would cause lots of issues with points - but a bit of oily residue doesn't cause any issues with the magnetic trigger. Just using a timing light its easy to see the consistency of spark is better and stronger, and start up is much easier even when the electrical system is taxed. One thing that does need to be done carefully is shimming the distributor gear and magnetic ring to get the right gap between the magnetic ring and the pick-up - it is much less tolerant of vertical movement of the shaft and rotor than traditional points, although even for points, its very helpful to get the the gear shimmed just right. The most recent one i bought for the sbc, I bought the whole distributor with the pertronix installed (no kit was available for the early sbc distributor I had), and all the shimming and tolerances where already done....literally drop in and start (which was nice after fighting an old hand-me-down accel breakerless distributor that apparently had gone bad sitting on the shelf for a decade plus). The only time I had a failure was my fault - after the engine rebuild, it had a slightly different oil pump on the timing cover, and the distributor shaft didn't have enough end play clearance with the oil pump drive slot, and when it got hot, the distributor shaft expanded/lengthen and pushed the breaker plate up out of its press fit in the housing just enough to cause the magnet ring to rub on the magnetic pick-up and damage it, and then magnets wanted to fall out. At one point in the archives of the earlycj5 forum, there was an issue with pertronix rings getting made with the magnets in the rings backwards (they worked if you flipped the ring upside down). But it seemed to be a one-off production run error and neither of the 3 I have used have had any problems. Its been one of the absolute best upgrades I have made to either jeep....put em in and forget about it. If you need a dwell meter let me know...mine isn't being used these days!

tirefoamcan

September 24th, 2020, 10:22 PM

I thought the pertronix would be the best to replace my points. The first time it failed, I thought it was because my kids left the ignition on. The 2nd time was after I sold it to my friend before moving out here and it went out on him.

For me, it sputtered and still kind of ran, but for him it went 100% dead. I changed the electronics to a 12v alternator, and had a 12v coil in it. Still ran 6v to the ignition system. Was the best thing I did to that tractor. Other than replace the head gasket.

Looking forward to seeing more of your wagon!

FINOCJ

September 25th, 2020, 08:57 AM

The first time it failed, I thought it was because my kids left the ignition on.

That is how I burned up my first set of points - basically welded the contact tip. Unlike points, leaving the ignition on won't damage the pertronix system. Maybe there are some different types of pertronix set-ups - both that I have seen use a traditional delco distributor with the 'disk' rotor (not the single 'pointer' type rotor) for the magnetic ring to mount to. No electricity actually flows 'through' the system - its all induction based (contactless) so there is basically no wear on the ring or pick-up.

FINOCJ

September 26th, 2020, 07:40 PM

It's gonna be a bit, but hopefully some new power for the wagon
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/09/26/PXL_20200926_235839046.jpg

Jim

September 26th, 2020, 09:47 PM

Ah, a plan coming together!

Same motor or does this have more wheel spinning, frame twisting power?

FINOCJ

September 26th, 2020, 11:04 PM

Different motor than the current 1957 sbc283 that is in it now....this is an early 70s sbc350 (I think). It will have more power - possibly to the detriment of the current transmission (any v8 is pushing the oem transmission near its limit). I like the old 283's - they sound awesome when revving, and they are very durable. But as a short stroke engine, they don't have much low end torque and need some rpm to find the sweet zone. Mine is a bit worn, but it really has no guts below 1500rpm, and you got to get above 2000rpm to start to feel it pull. My comment the other day was that it won't idle over a speedbump - you gotta rev it up and burn some clutch just to get around the grocery store parking lot. While there are some open road conditions, and also other, sportier, zippier applications that suite the 283 well, I am not sure its the best option for an old 4wd jeep. If the engine had no issues, I wouldn't worry about it, but as it needs a rebuild, it just wasn't worth the cost to rebuild something that isn't all that well suited for jeep use. But I do think think there is a cool factor with old 283s, and maybe it will stick around, get a rebuild and the proper application might be found.....32 roadster?

As for the 'new' 350, it is the classic, 'was running when pulled, rebuilt with low mileage" yada yada yada.....Price was right, and by all accounts from the friend I bought it from, it should be useable without any significant rebuild work. Yup....how many of those stories have you heard that turned out differently? At least in this case, I didn't pay much more than typical core price, so if it is as good as reported, it will be a great deal, and if it needs work, at least I am putting the rebuild money towards an engine with better low end, torquey use for the jeep. Anyway, I will do a basic disassembly: remove the intake, valve covers, heads, oil pan and timing cover. Will inspect the cylinders, rings, timing chain and gears for any significant issues, as well as check the crank. Will be reassembled with all new gaskets and seals, and possibly swap over the intake, carb and distributor from the current engine. I like that I will be able to keep driving the wagon as is while I do the once over with the new 350, and then it should be a relatively simple bolt in replacement....clutch will be replaced then as well, but otherwise, nothing else needed. In the long run, the 3 speed T90 may not stand up to the extra power, but it will work for awhile. I don't want to put any money into rebuilding the transmission - when it goes, it will be time for swap to something stronger. As a new cross-member will be needed at that time, that will also be the time to get the engine moved a couple inches forward in the engine bay (thus the included motor mounts are nice add-in). I kind of like being able to work on this project in smaller steps, and keep it mostly driveable between the steps.

Jim

September 26th, 2020, 11:44 PM

Will you do a compression/leakdown on the motor before you open it?

FINOCJ

September 27th, 2020, 12:16 AM

Not sure I can do a compression test - no good way to stabilize the motor when cranking when its not mounted to the jeep frame. But I do intend to do a leak down test. The motor needs a degreasing first, then it will get MMO/ATF or something similar down into the cylinders to soak and lubricate and turn it over by hand a bit.

FINOCJ

November 21st, 2020, 12:42 PM

I added this to my collection today...I hope to put in the wagon some day....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/20/PXL_20201121_010219742.jpghttps://beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/20/PXL_20201121_010232375.jpghttps://beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/20/PXL_20201121_010358501.jpg

it was nearby and only cost $40... SM465 early version with 4wd 10spline output - although that doesn't really matter as it would have to get changed to mate to a jeep D18 transfercase. The gears look great, although the input bearing sounds like its grinding a bit....disappointed to find the mated bellhousing had a crack - its cast iron, maybe it can be repaired? Its the old style open bottom bellhousing, so maybe its not that big of a deal, but I was hoping it would be usable as it has the proper 5 1/8'" bearing retainer bore and you can find the bottom cover pans pretty cheap....If the transmission is good and usable as I think/hope, it was worth it. Thinking this could be my winter project in Montana....rebuild with the Novak adapter and mainshaft....pricey but not as pricey as an engine rebuild. I would guess this is more likely to end up in the willys behind the sbc350 rather than the cj5...and it might not happen immediately anyway. Just seemed like too good a deal to pass up....or maybe someone wants to buy it for $140?

Jim

November 21st, 2020, 12:45 PM

www.LincolnElectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/welding-cast-iron-detail.aspx (https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/welding-cast-iron-detail.aspx)

FINOCJ

November 21st, 2020, 12:48 PM

www.LincolnElectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/welding-cast-iron-detail.aspx (https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/welding-cast-iron-detail.aspx)

Yup...stick welding technique...Not something I know anything about. Would be open to taking this to a proper shop to repair (wonder if Brucker could do it?) - although aftermarket replacement ones aren't all that expensive.

FINOCJ

November 22nd, 2020, 06:51 PM

So, I have been disappointed that the wagon hasn't been more usable since I got it - in other words, I thought what I bought was better than it was (sure that has never happened to any of you!). Anyway, after a bit of thought, and almost selling, the decision was made to keep it, but that also means to start making it usable. It was either sell it or fix it up, it just wasn't going to work for me as is - i.e. barely running. So, we'll see how long this takes...it officially off the road...

Pulled the transmission today...seemed to take me all day, but at least its out. I find the sbc-t90j adapter bellhousing to be a bit odd - and its one source of significant oil leak. Looking through the floorpan tunnel:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/22/PXL_20201123_001710468.jpg

When the t90 came out, there is no front bearing retainer on it. Either it seems to be built into the adapter bellhousing, or its stuck in there. As oil flows through the front bearing, it fills the cavity around the center ring, and there is only a paper gasket between the the t90 and bellhousing, and the old gasket was toast letting oil drip out between the two - kind of like a bad RMS leaks out at the front of the bellhousing, but this is at the rear. I am done for today - skiing tomorrow - but I'll get the bellhousing off next and see what its all about. I'll get you pics of the homemade clutch set-up....

FINOCJ

November 25th, 2020, 03:43 PM

Making a bit of progress...
Cleaning up the gunk has been priority #1:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/25/PXL_20201122_184535554.jpg

But making progress...the T90 is all clean and set-aside...D18 separated and mostly cleaned up as well as got the yokes and nuts off....glad to find the yoke wrench I made a few years ago could be put to use again. Rebuild kit is on order, but not jumping into right this moment - just trying to do a couple things and clean, then put it back on finger tight and set it aside as for just a bit as well.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/25/PXL_20201124_233417844.jpg

Here is the homemade clutch system - cable hooked into the pedal, then goes around the pulley and to the clutch fork with some cable clamps. There is a threaded eye bolt mounted into the fork that the cable connects to with a link....and bailing wire you see on the fork is holding the return spring to the fork. The fork looks like it has been cut and welding to lengthen it....getting this shenanigans fixed up right is another aspect I am not so sure about....thinking a cable clutch set-up like I have on the cj5 that will use a D18 mount I picked up from a member here - would have to weld an angle bracket to the inside of the frame rail to mount the other end of the cable sheath. Don't know much about the OEM wagon clutch system - guessing it doesn't fit correctly with an sbc? Something to look into.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/25/PXL_20201122_210317689.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/25/PXL_20201122_210259793.jpg

Finally...added another piece of the puzzle...picked up the Novak motor mounts from a member here - thanks Phillip (Jobhater)!
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/25/PXL_20201125_210910887.jpg

The plan is pull the rest of the bellhousing and clutch, and begin stripping the engine pieces to get it pulled out...

FINOCJ

November 26th, 2020, 01:48 PM

Making progress...I think the only thing left to disconnect is the power steering hoses and pull the pump and bracket (oh and I need to pull the distributor, but it won't come out with the back end held up just a bit high on the jackstand)....Last time I did this on the cj5 I pulled the carb and some other stuff, but thinking it should be okay as is....That is about all I can get done today...going over to clean my father's gutters and then traditional holiday dinner...Happy Thanksgiving all....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/26/PXL_20201126_193211486.jpg

Jim

November 26th, 2020, 02:13 PM

Progress!

Happy Thanksgiving!

FINOCJ

November 27th, 2020, 07:19 PM

Engine is out....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/11/27/PXL_20201128_003107940.jpg

now time to decide what is the next step...thinking of cleaning up the engine bay a bit, repairing some of the firewall cutting around the distributor notch-out, look into an electric wiper motor mount and I think I want to take the new to me sbc350 and start doing a bit of test fitting....I am very concerned the steering shaft is going to be in the way of the side block motor mounts to the frame...

FINOCJ

December 2nd, 2020, 06:49 PM

Messed up my back the other day so its been slow going - more research and gentle cleaning than doing any heavy work....but learning some cool stuff. Here is some stuff that came out:

Aluminum bellhousing from the T90 to (I think) an OEM powerglide adapter that was on the back of the sbc283....a GM front bearing retainer is housed in the bellhousing for the TO bearing to slide along, and the back of the bellhousing acts as the bearing retainer on the front of the T90....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/02/PXL_20201202_191007787.jpg

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/02/PXL_20201202_191047176.jpg

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/02/PXL_20201202_191118867.jpg

I was hoping the front bearing retainer that was in the bellhousing was from the t90, but it isn't...its some GM part with 4 bolts used to hold it down (whereas the t90 is 3 bolts), and the its too small to fit over the T90 front bearing....kind of a bummer as a T90 isn't all that useful, but one without a FBR is even more useless.... Anyone think this aluminum bellhousing T90-sbc adapter is worth anything...maybe aluminum scrap?

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/02/PXL_20201202_224621589.jpg

Not sure what other transmission used to use the same bolt pattern as a T90 - maybe it was somewhat common?...the only identification I can find is FC-93....just wondering if this bellhousing had other applications than just a willys t90 to a sbc with powerglide.....I guess some other companies like IH used the T90, so maybe there was enough demand.

As for the OEM chevy powerglide adapter - did a bit searching and found some examples:
Doing a bit more research - found some oem sbc to powerglide adapters for sale in various places....
1955-1961 Chevy Transmission Adapter Plate V8 Engine To Powerglide 3836782 SHOW | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/i/202945915488?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=202945915488&targetid=935431404893&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9028786&poi=&campaignid=10829254281&mkgroupid=106351005733&rlsatarget=pla-935431404893&abcId=9300396&merchantid=113611239&gclid=Cj0KCQiAk53-BRD0ARIsAJuNhptu5tM-XSFN1iOsGNT97eSxuUXCvwQeAq2nttEdc66o6JDhz8a8-6caAtPFEALw_wcB)
1956-1961 Chevy/Corvette 3742366 Original V8 Powerglide PG Transmission Adapter | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/i/371463259411?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26 ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D880639b851a d44bf991067a333d69262%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D5%26rk t%3D30%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D202945915488%26itm%3D 371463259411%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2386202%26 algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DGeneral+Motors)
Chevy Transmission Adapter Plate, V8 Engine To Powerglide, Used, 1955-1957 (https://www.ecklers.com/chevy-transmission-adapter-plate-v8-engine-to-powerglide-used-1955-1957-57-246882-1.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp57-246882-1&sc_intid=57-246882-1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAk53-BRD0ARIsAJuNhptQpAYlCeqp9AHXNAyMsyT8NkVBJBqC_ytUhk H8kdeCVI8_rGdNk8YaAlSfEALw_wcB)

And just because...the clutch cable and fork set-up that came out:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/02/PXL_20201202_191308277.jpg

FINOCJ

December 2nd, 2020, 06:50 PM

As for the flywheel and clutch.... the flywheel (casting 3729004), it has 168 teeth and is 14" diameter to the outer edge of the ring gear, so I assume its the 'large' sbc flywheel - hoping to re-surface it and re-use it with the 350/465 combo. From my limited knowledge, I figured any 168t large flywheel would work with an 11' clutch kit, but....Learning a bit more here....looked at the flywheel and realized I don't think an 11" clutch will fit even though its a 168t flywheel....there is a groove that is less than 11" diameter, and the pressure plate mounting holes are not out near the edge of the flywheel...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/02/PXL_20201202_221748601.jpg

so as with everything associated with the very early sbc's, I wondered if something was different (and they say all chevy stuff interchanges!)....so although its non-verified internet info, it seemed pretty applicable...that the very early sbc's came with 168t flywheel and 10" clutch, which can now use 10.4" modern clutch kit....so I guess a 10.4" clutch will be the way to go - or get a different flywheel...
From the interweb - my flywheel matches the bottom one:
Below is a 153 and 168 teeth flywheel. The 168 teeth flywheel has the bolt holes near the edge of the flywheel. This is the bolt pattern necessary for an 11in clutch (or 12in).

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h219/DZAUTO/Driveline/705561-R1-04-21A.jpg

Here is one of the early 168 teeth flywheels. Notice the bolt pattern for the pressure plate. This flywheel will ONLY ACCEPT a pressure plate for a 10 1/2in clutch.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h219/DZAUTO/Driveline/100_2965.jpg

Anyway, where I am going with this....To use the 168t flywheel with sm465, I will need the correct, large (5 1/8") bore cast iron (possibly aluminum if I can find it) bellhousing as many of the later aluminum and aftermarket ones have the smaller bore and won't fit the larger 168t flywheel (they fit the 153t flywheel). I think I can get one via local CL or ebay etc...And as for the clutch, a standard 10.4" clutch kit (with appropriate sm465 compatible 10spline x 1 1/8") should work, although I may need to verify the flywheel bolt pattern....

FINOCJ

December 3rd, 2020, 05:50 PM

Found what I hope is a good usable bellhousing - this is the later, one piece cast aluminum instead of the the earlier, open bottom cast iron ones. Its way lighter, doesn't have the awkward, in the way mounting bosses that I wouldn't be using anyway, and no need to deal with the additional bottom pan cover...I think I overpaid for it, but it was close by. I turned down some flywheels as the purchase price plus resurfacing didn't seem worth it - just buy a new one. Can always go back and get one if needed....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/03/PXL_20201203_232508173.jpg

FINOCJ

December 5th, 2020, 06:49 PM

Replacing the rubber puck body mounts on the wagon....here is comparison of the what is coming out vs what is going in....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/05/PXL_20201205_215846273.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/05/PXL_20201205_215854731.jpg

The replacements are the reported correct 7/8" thick and 2" in diameter....the ones coming out are more like 1/2" thick and 2.25" diameter....I am happy to get a bit of body 'lift' from these - hopefully back to 'normal' so the front fenders and grill/radiator aren't just riding on the frame. Not sure if the ones coming out were 7/8" thick at some point and have squeezed down and out, or if someone used different pucks at some point (I believe Willys p/u trucks and early wagons used something closer to what is coming out, so maybe that is where they came from). Its been a slow, fiddly process, didn't even get half of the them replaced today - although as always when digging into stuff on the willys, I find stuff that needs attention. Ended up spending some time fixing up, stripping and repainting a bracket/brace that goes between the front fender and main body tub....

The StRanger

December 5th, 2020, 10:26 PM

Time...
what a fickled mistress

FINOCJ

December 7th, 2020, 02:49 PM

Here is the difference:
With the old mounts, the body floor channels were sitting on the frame rails:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/07/PXL_20201207_180440936.PORTRAIT.jpg

With the new mounts, the body floor channels have some clearance above the frame rails which should work a lot better...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2020/12/07/PXL_20201207_180420708.PORTRAIT.jpg

Jim

December 7th, 2020, 04:17 PM

With the new mounts, the body floor channels have some clearance above the frame rails which should flex a lot better...

FTFY

Sorry, it's just where my mind went. :rolleyes:

FINOCJ

December 7th, 2020, 04:43 PM

Hey - these old C-channel frames provide some flex on these old, narrow, stiff inboard leaf springs as compared with more modern set-ups with rigid boxed frames and flexy suspensions....:lmao:

Jim

December 7th, 2020, 05:53 PM

Just so long as you can push in the clutch pedal and have the clutch disengage...

I'm assuming (with the pulley setup you showed), this wagon has through-the-floorpan / frame mounted clutch and brake pedals?

FINOCJ

December 7th, 2020, 06:07 PM

I'm assuming (with the pulley setup you showed), this wagon has through-the-floorpan / frame mounted clutch and brake pedals?

of course! The pulley cable set-up was not original - I think it was used because the original set-up did not have clearance with the v8....not exactly sure what I am going to do with that yet, but thinking a cable set-up like on my cj which works pretty well....I also don't plant to be wheeling this thing too hard or getting it all crossed-up....but a traction device in the rear would be nice....

Jim

December 7th, 2020, 06:11 PM

a traction device in the rear would be nice....

A double set of brake pedals for Jen on the passenger side - right rear brake / left rear brake - like farm tractors?

A double set of brake levers between the seats somewhat like the drift cars have?

I kid - though my mind does consider it...

A locker would take all of the fun out of this ;-)

FINOCJ

December 7th, 2020, 06:46 PM

Cutting breaks? Thinking power loc lsd would be about right....that is a long way off though.

carpenle

December 7th, 2020, 11:25 PM

Wow what a cool project James, great work 👍

FINOCJ

January 12th, 2021, 12:54 PM

Any suggestions on cutting out the old motor mounts with a cut-off disk on a 4.5" grinder...other than possibly removing the brake lines first? Kind of feels like once I do this, there isn't any turning back....right now I can still put it back together the way it was....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/12/PXL_20210112_184135765.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/12/PXL_20210112_184140316.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/12/PXL_20210112_184150672.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/12/PXL_20210112_184209207.jpg

newracer

January 12th, 2021, 01:56 PM

Do you have a torch?

FINOCJ

January 12th, 2021, 02:09 PM

Do you have a torch?
nope, no torch or plasma cutter - pretty simplistic and crude here....I don't have a sawzall either, but it might work....I am most comfortable with the cut-off disk as that is what I've used a lot, so maybe try that, and can always clean it up with the grinding wheel/flap disk....

newracer

January 12th, 2021, 02:43 PM

A cut off wheel should work fine, looks like there is plenty of room to access it. I was given a torch setup a few years ago, don't use it much but it is handy for some things.

FINOCJ

January 12th, 2021, 03:57 PM

Wasn't too bad with the cut-off wheel....lower front corners didn't quite have enough clearance for the 4.5" angle grinder so used my smaller air tool - its slow (not enough air flow for continuous use) but only needed an inch or so on each one....have to clean it up a bit with grinder and hopefully that will allow plenty of room for test fitting the sbc and sm465 etc...may still have to do something with the steering....one step at a time...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/12/PXL_20210112_214842686.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/12/PXL_20210112_214846733.jpg

FINOCJ

January 28th, 2021, 07:18 PM

Well started the sm465 rebuild with mainshaft replacement....making slow progress...
Got the top off and cane off...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/26/PXL_20210127_011442715.jpg

Then spent quite awhile just trying to get the rear nut on the mainshaft off...I fully expected red loc-tite to be holding it on. Ended up having to cut into and split the nut off the shaft...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/26/PXL_20210127_041332235.jpg

pulled all the bearings:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/27/PXL_20210127_175009242.jpg

Finally got to an empty case:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/27/PXL_20210127_215510474.jpg

Mainshaft:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/27/PXL_20210127_192702713.jpg

Countershaft and input drive shaft:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/27/PXL_20210127_234409332.jpg

Mainshaft disassembled (minus one bushing)...and comparison with new replacement novak shaft (right):
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/27/PXL_20210127_234325051.jpg

FINOCJ

February 5th, 2021, 10:02 AM

Making a bit more progress...with the mainshaft disassembled, time to work on the countershaft. Apparently, with wear, 3rd gear can have issues jumping out of gear. I don't know the history of this sm465, and if that was an issue, but I bought the 3rd gear upgrade kit from Novak as I only want to pull this thing apart once. The upgrade requires pulling the large counter gear and replacing the splined collar and two snap rings behind the gear with a sleeve.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/04/PXL_20210204_212312411.jpg

Had to max out my gear puller, but it came off easy.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/04/PXL_20210204_214027479.jpg

The parts the sleeve replaces:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/04/PXL_20210204_220528340.jpg

Sleeve goes on here and large counter gear will get pressed back on:
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/04/PXL_20210204_220631745.jpg

Not sure I could get the counter gear back on without a press...might be able to drive it on but I think I need a press for the mainshaft bushings and general shop use, so added this to a my friends garage (doing this work in Montana so not in my garage):
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/04/PXL_20210204_203847592.jpg

Large counter gear went on easy with press (could have driven it on if needed)... hopefully not too easily...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/04/PXL_20210204_225047907.jpg

FINOCJ

February 5th, 2021, 10:11 AM

With the countershaft complete, it was time to move on to reassembling the mainshaft. There is quite a bit of discussion/warning about cracking the mainshaft bushings when pressing them on...I heated the bushing, but maybe didn't freeze the shaft enough...anyway the first attempt (2nd gear) cracked.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/04/PXL_20210205_012835300.jpg

The 1st and 2nd gear bushings are identical, so I tried again and got it to work....the first attempt I tried pressing the shaft down into the bushing that I put on the press base/apron as I didn't have a the right size pipe to fit over the shaft...I think the extra height/length of the shaft makes keeping things aligned vertically very difficult when pressing down...it's easy for the shaft to move off axis and it creates a lot of lateral leverage on the bushing potentially cracking it. On the 2nd attempt, I fixed the shaft on the press base/apron, and jumbled together a pipe sleeve and old bushing to fit over the shaft and press the new bushing down onto the shaft (I really didn't think it had any chance of staying together)...I think this is easier to keep aligned as well as there is much less lateral leverage on the bushing...or maybe I just got lucky... Anyway, I can press on the smaller 3rd gear bushing, but kind of stuck until I can get another 2nd gear bushing....may try to install the countershaft and end bearings into the case, but I was hoping to paint the case first, and its way too cold here in Montana (even in the garage) to try and paint. I was planning on returning to Colo today and bringing the case with me to paint this coming week, but winter storms have closed I80 so may not make it back for awhile (March). Anyway, off to order a new bushing...progress is slow...

Jim

February 7th, 2021, 05:50 PM

Oh jAmes.... Fab Rats just picked up the Willys. I think you should subscribe to his methodology when getting an old vehicle running - LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOKlhC7XMlY

Tom

February 7th, 2021, 06:09 PM

Here’s your next project James.

FINOCJ

February 7th, 2021, 06:13 PM

Here’s your next project James.

I want one of those for a street cruiser, but the OEM engine selection was pretty anemic...I think the sbc283 I have would do nicely in one of those.

Jim

February 7th, 2021, 11:13 PM

I want one of those

When are you moving to a rural property?

FINOCJ

February 8th, 2021, 09:04 AM

Want doesn't mean it will happen...I am already way too far in with 58, way beyond where I ever wanted to be.

Java

February 9th, 2021, 09:04 PM

On the plus side a SBC and SM465 will last forever when you're done with them, and those old wagons are getting rarer and more valuable everyday. Hopefully it will be worth more than you ever expected. :thumb:

FINOCJ

February 10th, 2021, 11:00 PM

I had some difficulty with pressing on the 1st-2nd synchro hub...I thought I effed it up beyond repair causing a ridge in the middle of the splines from where it got off-center out of alignment when trying to press in the mainshaft...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/10/PXL_20210211_005614720.jpg

Well an hour or two of hand filing out the splines seems to have worked....also gave some extra hours for the mainshaft to sit in the freezer. After heating the hub, it went together ok and it seems good to me ....also pressed on the first gear mainshaft bushing without incident... here's the shaft with some of the hard steps out of the way with the first and second gear bushing pressed on and the central second gear hub as well....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/10/PXL_20210211_033521241.jpg

Began working on modifying a smaller pipe sleeve to press on the smaller 3rd gear bushing, but called it a night.... hopefully it was one step back and two forward so a net gain.... until next week....

Jim

February 10th, 2021, 11:33 PM

Ouch - that first pic makes me wonder if the parts were not machined to fit - almost like they gave you the wrong part. You're working through it!

FINOCJ

February 11th, 2021, 07:16 AM

No...parts are fine, just user error with the press. Learning as I go, and trying not to screw stuff up too bad. Hopefully mainshaft assembly will start to go quicker...but then getting the jumble of countershaft, mainshaft and input shaft all back into the case properly with bearings will probably be a PITA....

FINOCJ

February 23rd, 2021, 10:58 PM

A bit of progress...all bushings and synchro hubs pressed on etc...one side of mainshaft complete.... doesn't seem like a lot, but I am slow and only get a couple hours every so often.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/02/23/PXL_20210224_032830859.jpg

Jim

February 24th, 2021, 12:36 AM

only get a couple hours every so often.

You're skiing up there, no? Teaching / guiding?

FINOCJ

February 24th, 2021, 07:16 AM

Yup....in the middle of a 14 day straight work stretch. My place is nicely located within walking distance to work, but no garage or workshop (just a condo), so I have to travel an hour to town (west yellowstone) to a friends house with garage etc. Was trying to come down once a week on my day off, but sometimes it just doesn't happen.

FINOCJ

April 8th, 2021, 10:44 PM

An update....progress has been slow and I damaged some more good parts so more delays....but....
thought made some progress finishing the mainshaft with install into case...but initial inspection suggests there is too much movement in 1st gear...it can rub on the inside of the case...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/03/15/PXL_20210316_020840588.jpg

turns out I left out a thrust washer that goes behind the output bearing....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/03/20/PXL_20210320_183911795.jpg

But somehow when putting it back together, I was too focused on figuring out the asymmetrical stepped thrust washer and somehow forgot the bearing snap ring and started pressing on the bearing with the bearing backwards. By the time I realized it, the snap ring groove is too far into the case to get the splitter on it to pull it...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/03/20/PXL_20210320_200045775.jpg

Had to pull the rear bearing back off again, but with the snap ring inside the case, there is nothing for the bearing puller to grab onto. The mainshaft can't slide back enough as 1st gear hits the case, and can't slide forward enough to pull through and remove as the bearing doesn't allow the rear of the shaft to tip down so the other end can raise up to clear gears on the counter shaft. Had to cut some grooves into the bearing for the bearing splitter to grab onto and then order a new bearing and wait a few weeks....and did some drinking....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/03/20/PXL_20210320_220617781.jpg

Finally, thought I got it all back together nicely, and end play still wasn't right...after checking the output end of the mainshaft a few times, decided some of the issue might be associated with the input shaft. According to the schematic, there is supposed to be a lock ring outside the front bearing (#4)...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/08/PXL_20210408_234130783.jpg

It should go in this groove:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/08/PXL_20210408_233059826.jpg

But when the bearing was pressed on, there was no way it would go on far enough to expose the lock ring groove. It seemed the bearing should slide all the way up against the 'shoulder step' the oil slinger is on, but I put A LOT of pressure on it with the 12 ton press and the bearing was bottomed out in terms of movement when it reaches the inner groove, but would not slid over it. I was initially thinking the bearing was too thick, but this is the correct 'thinner' (.63") 211 bearing from Novak kit.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/08/PXL_20210408_233128244.jpg

dammit! just figured it out today....What a effing stupid moron I've been. I had the base plates set-up wrong on the press....the pilot/clutch tip of the shaft is very small diameter, but of course, the section of the shaft that the bearing slides over and that the snap ring goes on is larger diameter....I wasn't allowing enough clearance with the support plates for the larger section of the shaft to slide through - that is why it was always getting stuck flush with the front edge and cover the snap ring groove. The really stupid part is I did it that way in Montana a couple weeks ago, and now I am home in my own garage set-up and did it same stupid way. Heating the bearing allowed it to slip fit on almost all the way down - it slid so far on that the large diameter portion of the shaft began to come out. When I went to set it on the press plates I realized the through hole was too small...a block of wood and hammer tap and it dropped right one. I am too annoyed to be happy or even relieved....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/08/PXL_20210409_015615865.jpghttps://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/08/PXL_20210409_015636341.jpg

FINOCJ

April 9th, 2021, 06:24 PM

Now it looks right....front and rear bearings setting all the way in and the large first gear has proper clearance from the rear of the case....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/09/PXL_20210409_230632683.jpg https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/09/PXL_20210409_230625864.jpg

Jim

April 9th, 2021, 06:46 PM

:cheers:

FINOCJ

April 9th, 2021, 07:51 PM

ok...think that is it, counter shaft bearings installed...still need to test fit the top cover on and shift through gears, but manually moving the shift collars seems to work....found reverse....

https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/09/PXL_20210410_002850917.jpghttps://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/09/PXL_20210410_002857348.jpghttps://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/09/PXL_20210410_002844469.jpg

Need to put the Novak D18 adapter plate on - which also acts as the rear bearing cap and holds stuff in place - and then begin disassembly of the D18....I probably should have done some test fitting of the two pieces with empty cases, but will have to make due.

Its time to get the cj ready for going to moab with an ecj5 member....went and brought it home, its been in garage storage at my parents since beginning of December...started right up and no obvious leaks or issues. check a few fluids, tire pressure and disconnect the drive shaft....maybe run it long enough to get it up to temp and make sure no coolant leaks.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/09/PXL_20210410_003905780.jpg

speedkills

April 9th, 2021, 11:34 PM

That is some major surgery you have going on there. Thanks for all of the progress reports, it's a fun read for us even if it isn't always fun for you.

Java

April 10th, 2021, 08:05 AM

FINOCJ

April 10th, 2021, 10:52 AM

Don't be so hard on yourself, it sounds like you've got busy-guy problems, not "effing stupid moron" ones. It's so easy to miss little details when you've got a lot going on, especially in multiple locations. At least you figured it out on the bench and not on the trail! :thumb:

Two days back in my own garage really helped....I found it difficult to work in someone else's space (and tools), and getting to work on it once a week instead of everyday really caused me start-stop problems with trying to figure out where I left off, what was next etc....a lot of wasted time regrouping and probably led to some mistakes that I had to redo. Without a doubt, the sm465 is a much more tedious transmission rebuild than the T14 I did previously, or the D18 transfer case...in some ways, even the locker install with setting R&P backlash etc seemed to go smoother (albeit I wasn't setting up from scratch so pinon depth wasn't as bad as it could have been)....If I ever get this 58 project done, I have a 4:1 T18 4speed to go into the cj5 - from what I gather, it'll be between the T14 and sm465 in terms of rebuild difficulty, but I think it will have a mainshaft replacement as well - so its not trivial. By that time, I might be so sick of old jeeps that I buy something new, pay for shop labor to install a kit and just drive it.

FINOCJ

April 20th, 2021, 12:02 PM

Progress continues...the D18 transfercase is fully disassembled now...lots of cleaning to do...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/20/PXL_20210420_155857373.jpg

and the beast sm465 is waiting...It all assembled, but haven't sealed the gaskets or anything until I know it will mate properly with the D18...it also will need paint. I'll feel like some progress is made when the sm465/D18 combo is fully together...then the sbc350 can go to the shop for machine work...I need to clean and organize the workbench....honestly, I don't want to lift the 175lbs sm465 to the floor and mess up my back with our big river trip coming up. I need to be able to oar the rig through solid whitewater, and the last time I really carried that thing around, I think I tweaked my back so, it stays on the bench taking up space until we get back.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/20/PXL_20210420_155910233.jpg

open_circuit

April 20th, 2021, 12:43 PM

FINOCJ

April 20th, 2021, 01:09 PM

I need to be able to oar the rig through solid whitewater, and the last time I really carried that thing around, I think I tweaked my back so, it stays on the bench taking up space until we get back.

Winch + snatch block on your ceiling + lifting strap => overhead hoist to get it up in the air?

Maybe it could just stay in the air (albeit a hanging death trap) - could use both the bench and floor space. Reality, I could just move it with the engine hoist (there is a step in the concrete at the front of the garage where the bench is - I think the picker could reach over that)....but too lazy for now, and leaving town tomorrow. But, in any future home/garage that I have some construction say in, I will definitely be putting a winch/pulley anchor point into the concrete slab at the front of the garage so I can winch a vehicle in or out (and ceiling anchor/hoist point would also be good). I guess when the driveway is flat, its not that hard to push a jeep around, but my current driveway is pretty steep - it takes 4-5 people to push the wagon up into the garage if it can't do it under its own power.

FINOCJ

April 20th, 2021, 03:29 PM

Thinking what might throw my back out is moving around rocket boxes full of beer - 49 beers fits very nicely, but not quire enough space to lay a couple in long ways on the top. That would be 49 silver bullets in an ammo can....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/04/20/PXL_20210420_202641984.jpg

FINOCJ

May 18th, 2021, 02:55 PM

Now that things are mostly back to normal after the canyon trip, its time for cleaning and rebuild of the D18 with new bearings and intermediate shaft etc...Trying a new way of doing some cleaning (Novak says it works well):
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/18/PXL_20210518_194047832.jpg

If you don't hear from me in a few days, you'll know why....

goSlo

May 18th, 2021, 04:17 PM

Yeah my wife would have me shot!
Watch your back! :erm:

FINOCJ

May 18th, 2021, 05:28 PM

This worked pretty well. It leaves a flash rust on the surface, but it takes off all the oily residue that its really hard to get rid off and helps loosen up and get a lot of the stuff out of the nooks and crannies. I didn't trust the flash rust on gears and splined internals etc, so those are soaking in a bucket with degreaser and will be hand wiped down to get the carbonized gunk off - besides a little oil coating on those is fine as they will get more during re-assembly. I just did the case, pan and bearing caps. The flash rust comes off easily with a rag or wire brush - used a little dremmel to get in the tight spaces. It already had been hand scraped, but I want to try painting one, and just didn't think I could get all the oily residue off by hand...It will still get a rag wipe with laquer thinner or the like before painting, but this just seemed like it would help. I wanted to do this with the sm465, but the option was not there - so it will get the hand wipe down treatment and it was not covered in oily gunk anyway (must have gotten some serious cleaning by the PO). Would do it again for sure....YFYL (your wife, your life)....some pics:
the flash rust coming out of the washer:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/18/PXL_20210518_213636464.jpg

after a few minutes cleaning up with a wire wheel, brush and rag:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/18/PXL_20210518_220346934.jpg

FINOCJ

May 22nd, 2021, 07:53 PM

Making some progress getting the transfer case back together...there are two big steps that are kind of a PITA and its good to get past them....
First one is the intermediate shaft install (one on the right). What looks like 2 gears on opposite sides of the case is actually a single cluster gear that has a couple sets of loose needle bearings that go inside the gear tunnel and spin on the intermediate shaft....you have to get all 30-something needle bearings in place holding them in with something like assembly lube or vasoline, and then slide the gear (and thrust washers) down into the case and then slide/tap the intermediate shaft through the cluster gear tunner without knocking any of the needle bearings out....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/20/PXL_20210520_211920671.jpg

Next up, the rear bearing shim pack that goes between the case and rear bearing cap is always a fun part of rebuilding a D18. The output shaft has to have endplay between .004-.008" and thin steel shims are stacked to provide the right clearence and preload to the bearing. Actually, the test fitting isn't so hard, its the scramble to get all the shims coated with sealant on both sides and installed nice and clean without messing up the sealant coating - this is a spot than can cause a lot of oil leak.
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/22/PXL_20210522_225739727.jpg

Have to install the shift rail poppet balls and springs, rail seals and both input and output shaft seals. Going to get new yoke nuts from FLAPS and it should be done. I left the shift rail interlock pin out, so I will full twin stick functionality - in other words, 2hi-2lo-4hi-4lo. I wouldn't do this with something like a newer D300 etc (although lots of people do without issue), but the dual rail system of the D18 will not allow for accidental cross-shift (front axle in hi and rear in lo or vice versa) which can be disastrous. Not sure I will ever use 2lo - especially with the granny low first gear in the sm465 - but might as well have it available. Need to wrap this up and then test fit mating it to the sm465 with the adapter and new mainshaft. I expect I may have some clearance issues with the transfer case shift tower against the sm465, but we'll see. Going to lazy man way and going to paint the entire set-up afterwards. Hopefully the engine goes to the machine shop this week.

FINOCJ

May 25th, 2021, 09:57 PM

Think the D18 is done...tested all the shift positions including 2 low (as I removed the interlock pin). A couple little exterior things left until test fitting to the sm465 is finished...

https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/25/PXL_20210525_202637457.jpg

The Dana 18 shift lever housing will need a bit of grinding to clearance the side of the sm465 case...but it doesn't look like it is going to need much....
Here it is with no grinding on the first test fit...you can see the D18 will not quite clock right - needs to rotate CCW just a bit:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/25/PXL_20210525_224044308.jpg

I did a bit of grinding on both the shift housing and a tiny bit on the case - and its really close....didn't have time to finish it up today, but hopefully tomorrow it will get finalized.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/25/PXL_20210525_233158715.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/25/PXL_20210525_233208986.jpg

FINOCJ

May 30th, 2021, 06:16 PM

I think I needed to see this even if it doesn't mean much in terms of moving forward with the project....kind helps motivation
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/30/PXL_20210530_224338457.jpg

Nice to see everything fits together...SBC350 to 1-piece aluminum bell to SM465 to D18....of course, the hard part will be fitting it under the willys and all the details like engine placement, motor moutns, cross-member, steering, clutch etc....I've been playing around with some modification to the stock cross-member to see if I can re-use that in some way - its really hard to tell alignment and spacing and probably won't be able to do much until its under the wagon. Guess I will go pull off a front fender to make it easier to try and slide this whole shebang in from the front - probably gonna have to start thinking about cutting some floorpan sheemetal out to accommodate this....

The extra width of the sm465 compared to the original T90 (or T14 like in my cj5) really covers the one front facing D18 bolt up. Hopefully with a bit of lubricant I it will turn in by finger a couple turns, then I can get a 12pt closed end wrench on it (maybe even buy on of those hinged closed end ratchet wrenches)....but got to get it in fer'nuff to get the wrench behind it.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/30/PXL_20210530_230245617.jpg

Jim

May 30th, 2021, 08:05 PM

I think I needed to see this even if it doesn't mean much in terms of moving forward with the project....kind helps motivation

Looks beautiful !!

Some time, effort (and a bit of learning) in that metal.

FINOCJ

June 1st, 2021, 07:04 PM

Maybe there is hope this will all go back in the wagon one day....never dropped an engine in with transmission and transfer case all as one...in some ways, makes it real easy other than there is nothing to mount anything to - but of course having the radiator and front grill off is a big piece of that...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/05/30/PXL_20210531_005536007.jpg

I think I am getting close to getting the engine positioned correctly - in short I think the front end will have to come up a bit to get to the proper 3 degrees or so, and the whole thing will probably need to shift towards the driver side an inch or so....that will help with the two big clearance issues I am seeing: the front driveshaft to starter and the D18 to the floorpan tunnel. I have already cut the transmission hole bigger, but will need to cut a bit more on the driver side to allow things to shift in that direction....and of course, none of this has been tested with drivetrain weight on the suspension, which will be done after shifting things drivers side a bit. Hopefully its getting close.

General position:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_221647313.jpg

Engine inclination - only about 1.5 degrees, so that needs to be increased a bit, and when the suspension sags under weight, it may need even a bit more:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_221524247.jpg

Liking the clearance on the back firewall - a large HEI won't fit, but a small HEI or pertronix unit might without too much firewall mod....obviously, the old hole is going to need some attention.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_221742936.jpg

Clearance in the front looks fine with the axle so far, and I think the long nose water pump would actually fit based on measurements (a bit tight) - planning to keep the electric fan set-up to maximize clearance there, but will can switch out to a short nose pump if needed.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_222017441.jpg

Here is my biggest concern so far - the front driveshaft to starter clearance. Moving the engine toward the driver side will help a bit, and maybe getting it a bit higher will help. Getting it driver won't be too difficult, but getting it higher is not as easy.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_222400105.jpg

Driverside clearance is fine as long as the steering shaft is routed low (below the motor mount) and horizontal (which will be an entirely separate project)...should be able to push the engine towards this side a bit:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_222215567.jpg

In terms of floorpan tunnel clearance... already cut the opening bigger, but going to have to cut a bit more to push things toward driver. Its also going to get tight with the gas pedal, but maybe that can be moved a bit if needed.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_222508993.jpg

From the underside, the D18 is hitting the hat channel on the side of the tunnel, so it cannot go any higher. If it moves driver a bit, that will help give it a bit more clearance, and maybe give an inch or so of upward movement.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_222617872.jpg

Finally, the cross-member....looks like everything is just high enough to clear the old cross-member, which is flat mounted under the frame. Its already a bit low and exposed being below the frame, so don't really want anything hanging any lower. Based on the D18 torque mount, if everything gets shifted just under and inch driver - the old torque mount would work with a flat cross-member, and the drivetrain will be lateraly just as it was original....but it is going to need an isolator mount under the trans. Its hard to see in the pic, but its sitting on top of the cross-member just left of the adapter plate. I got the Novak one that mounts into the bottom of the adapter plate, but obviously, its not going to fit on top of a flat cross-member - so some sort of modification or notch to the cross-member to create a bit of space is going to be needed. Or everything has to be raised 1.75" and I think that starts to create major interference with the floorpan tunnel...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_222840040.jpg

After getting everything pushed left - will have to see about getting the motor mounts clamped in place to test out putting the drivetrain weight on the frame, and putting on the add-ons like carb/air cleaner, starter etc and inspect clearances.

FINOCJ

June 2nd, 2021, 09:26 PM

Did some work to get things shifted towards the driver....had to cut the tunnel a bit more, and then a bit more yet...It is a bit of hassle at this point to drop the transmission way down to give a lot clearance for cutting so just did a few small notches with the dremmel and will eventually go back and clean that all up with a bit more clearance. The sm465 really comes up through the floor now:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210602_211003727.jpg

That allowed me to get the engine mostly level and moved over...the engine is about 1.25" closer to the driver side frame rail than the passenger - easy to see the difference in the length of the mounts
driver mount:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210602_210819275.jpg

passenger mount:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210602_210856743.jpg

I c-clamped the mounts to the frame - supposedly that is enough hold engine weight for test fitting. The one thing that is very hard to tell is if the engine is sitting square in the frame, and the crank and drivetrain are (in theory) directly parallel to the frame rails and perpendicular to the cross-member....given the age and abuse seen by this old wagon, the frame probably isn't all the square anyway, and the frame widens out right behind the engine...tough to tell, but I think it will help once its sitting solely on the mounts and they are tightened up a bit.

Got the D18 torque mount lightly in place as that seems to set up well with the cross-member, but had to shim the transmission up 1/4" to level things out (might be a bit more after the weight is transferred to the engine mounts from the chain)....still have to figure out the isolator mount.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210602_211152227.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210602_211232640.jpg

Its sitting under it own weight on the mounts...the engine isn't at full weight as there are no pistons, rods or crank - so its a bit light, but the heads have the complete valve train. Put some of the accessories on like the carb, air cleaner, distributor, alternator, and electric wiper motor...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210603_003610258.jpg

This is not the air cleaner that was on the 283, and it has a more recessed bottom, so even with a 3" tall filter, it sits lower (covering more of the carb) and has no issue with the hood, and even better gives a bit room for the electric wiper motor. Its a 14" air cleaner, so maybe I can drop down to a 13" to provide a safe amount of clearance for the wiper motor. As for the distributor, an OEM large cap HEI will not install as is, but an older points style distributor (with pertronix) will fit nicely, but think it will still require a small depression in the upper portion of the firewall for it to be installed/removed with engine in place. Still planning on looking for a shorter small HEI set-up. In all cases, the electric wiper motor will have to be removed, but I am planning to get that set-up with 4 easy machine screws into riv-nuts and a quick disconnect plug for the wires.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210603_003651271.jpg

At first I was excited about how nicely the alternator bracket worked, but it is for a long water pump, and while I think the pump will clear the radiator, I do not think the associated lower crank pulley will clear the front cross-member (I assume the lower crank pulley has to stick out further to match the longer water pump) ..so probably going to have to go with a short water pump and shorter crank pulley, and figure out a different alternator bracket (and PS pump).
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210603_003742475.jpg

Also checking the front driveshaft clearance with starter mount...there is about 2.25" of vertical clearance. There is also an extra long bumpstop for the right leaf spring that is shifted back towards the the spring pivot that is there to help protect the starter.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210602_230516150.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/02/PXL_20210602_230637916.jpg

So I think this is pretty darn close to the final position. There are trade-offs for every potential shift or change...as I will probably have to go to a short water pump, the engine could possibly be pushed a bit further forward to allow for easier distributor removal with a flat firewall, but it might change clearance with driveshaft/starter, and its hard to move the support cross-member much further forward as it will interfere with the frame mounted pedals. Raising the engine a inch or two more is also a possibility - it would help with driveshaft clearance, but hurt distributor access, and floorpan cutting would have to get a lot bigger to clear the D18, not just the sm465.
Compared to where the old 283 was mounted, the current position is about 2.5 further forward, and maybe 1 inch higher at the back, and will be even more at the front as the old 283 had no inclination to its mount. I think I will drop the pan and add in the crank, then test fit with short water pump

FINOCJ

June 7th, 2021, 05:47 PM

Did a bit of test fitting, and the long water pump was a no go with the engine placement - interference with the electric fan and front cross-member. Did test clearance with short water pump - looks to be the route I will go, but going to need some multi-groove pulleys for short pump and crank. Could possibly run a mechanical fan with this engine placement and small spacer, although clearance with the front cross-member might be a problem. For now, sticking with the electric fan.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/06/PXL_20210605_235144119.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/06/PXL_20210605_235212255.jpg

Doing some research on short water pump bracket mounts for alternator and steering pump as all the ones I have are for the long pump. Ordered up these, hoping they might do the trick:

Small Block Chevy Upper Alternator Bracket, Plain (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Small-Block-Chevy-Upper-Alternator-Bracket-Plain,38957.html)
this alternator bracket would keep it from getting too far outboard on the passenger side, as I also have to figure out where to mount the battery tray...the previous swap had the battery tray on the inside front passenger fender, and if kept there, it would interfere with too far of an 'outboard' alternator mount....The one linked would probably require a different water outlet angle but that is manageable.

JEGS 60795: Power Steering Pump Brackets Side Mount | JEGS (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60795/10002/-1)
this PS pump mount looks good and is sort of the standard driver side mid mount - couldn't use this with the 283 as it had the front cradle mount that would have interfered. It has 2 positions, and I'd probably use the higher position for ease of access....

Pulled the drivetrain out to work on some stuff, before doing a final test fit later. I decided to 'clean up' the section of the ugly firewall that had been notched back into the cab to clear the distributor by just cutting out it all the junky rough and cracked stuff to find some good metal and smooth edge - this is going to be tough for me as the firewall is not just a flat panel, and I will probably need to create my own notch to provide some distributor install/removal clearance. Also will need to create a horizontal overlay for the seam between the upper and lower panels, as the welded and stiffening lip has been removed.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/06/PXL_20210607_030241998.jpg

The motor mounts will need to be welded to frame...as they are positioned over a 'window' section of the frame, had to fill the window with new metal.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/06/PXL_20210607_030307466.jpg

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/07/PXL_20210607_204730757.jpg

so I welded in a patch piece on each side...Getting better at doing this - hopefully the motor mounts don't pull out at 60mph...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/07/PXL_20210607_221036902.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/07/PXL_20210607_221045166.jpg

Novak suggests best welding mount is to plug weld them to the inside of the frame rail boxing, and then run a short section of bead along the top, but not to run long weld beads vertically along the sides....what do you all think?

Jim

June 7th, 2021, 10:21 PM

You might wish to take a look at what the Fab Rats guy did:
https://youtu.be/yqh3PbokqLI?t=788

I queued it for about 13 minutes. At 14:55 he talks about the diamond - for stress issues on the frame.

I don't have any idea if what he's doing is good/bad/otherwise. FWIW

FINOCJ

June 25th, 2021, 11:14 PM

A little progress....needed to take care of the firewall hole and maintain the recess clearance for distributor access, as well as repair some cracking and separation of firewall panels, and mount the electric wiper motor with threaded inserts that allow for easy removal....for as old school as I may be sometimes, I had no interest to try and rebuild and use vacuum operated wipers!
Decided to try some sheetmetal fab work - very crude skills here:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/10/PXL_20210609_180146581.jpg

Had some left-over 18g sheet metal from the floorpan project on the cj5 from years ago. Made a 3 sided box and the bottom portion that will also wrap around and down the lower firewall for the bottom edge and mount:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/10/PXL_20210609_183737631.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/10/PXL_20210609_225513200.jpg

they go together to make this...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/10/PXL_20210610_192501561.jpg

Idea is something like this:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/10/PXL_20210610_191801784.jpg

traced out the firewall along the sides so I can trim the excess off the bottom:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/10/PXL_20210610_192514967.jpg

Getting closer....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/10/PXL_20210611_003321853.jpg

got the sides trim up to match the firewall profile, go the bottom corners of the box welded up, got the dash bracket for the vent lever drilled in place, and got the top angle edge trim in and cut around the wiper motor etc....just have the side edge trim left - it will be a little PITA as the edge profile is not straight. Also added in a brace across the upper and lower panel seem. The PO cut the welded pinch seam to make clearance for the old engine up against the firewall. Just used a bunch of 'spot' welds along the edge and throughout the middle where I drilled holes. I didn't trust trying to do much more with my lack of welding skills and the old, thin, crusty firewall - thought I might just burn through. Turn out it could handle some heat but this was easy enough. Still have to grind them mostly flat.

FINOCJ

June 25th, 2021, 11:18 PM

Next up...
Added some front trim that wraps around to the face of the firewall...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/19/PXL_20210619_235022900.jpg

.Decided to weld it all in but something simple like sheetmetal screws would have worked - but been a bit rough on the cab side of the firewall...not sure if one way is better than the other or not...I welded it using a poor mans spot/plug weld technique, and had to use some sheet metal screws to hold things tight and then weld up the those holes as well....Its rough....

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/25/PXL_20210625_195431126.jpg

Also mounted up the electric wiper motor with threaded inserts so its easily removeable (it will have to be removed prior to removing a distributor if needed). Did a lot of cleaning in the engine bay and inner fenders getting rid of years of oil and clay mudcake buildup....Started to find some of the original red coming through (or never painted over as the case with the fenders). There are still lots of unnecessary holes in the firewall and some other problems, its ugly and rough, but I think that is what its going to be. At least everything is solid - hopefully the cracks and panel separation that had begun is under control, and while its not pretty, and certainly not good for minimizing engine bay air into the cab (always drive with window and vent open), its feels rock solid, is maybe a small step better than it was, and hopefully won't be noticeable behind the engine too much. Its going to get some rattle can paint to help and then hopefully getting close to final fit-up and clearance of the engine etc....

FINOCJ

June 25th, 2021, 11:27 PM

Finally, getting close to final test fitting....
Putting on all the accessories for final fit-up and test fit back in the engine bay....I moved the non-EGR intake that was on the 283 (but was not oem) to the 1978 350 along with the non-EGR q-jet I rebuilt a couple years ago. I checked the casting number on the intake and was common on 1969 350s for most all car applications (but not trucks). Interestingly enough, while the 69 intake fit on the 78 block, the 78 intake does not fit on the old 57 283 block as it won't clear the big round cylinder at the rear of the valley (I think its part of the draft tube system). Anyway, I've gotten to know Speedway Motors for ordering online sbc parts etc....had to find some unique alternator and power steering pump mounting brackets that will work with the short water pump. I think I posted awhile ago that I was hoping to use a long water pump, but there is not enough room between the engine and radiator/front cross-member.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/25/PXL_20210626_031219389.jpg

Different water pump and brackets also means different pulley combinations for belt drives etc. I have a 2 groove crank pulley along with an additional add-on crank pulley (not in picture) for a 3rd groove (often advertised as power steering specific), as well as a 2 groove water pump pulley and the 2 groove pulley on the PS pump that I pulled off the 283.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/25/PXL_20210626_031207333.jpg

Initially, the big problem was that the inner groove on the crank pulley is 'under' the water pump (or so far inward/closer to the block) that it is essentially useless. I bought the crank and water pump pulleys as a set, and was hoping that the 2 grooves on the crank would line up with the 2 grooves on the WP. But, as is, the forward/outer crank groove must be used with the inner/rearward wp groove. The inner wp groove is the one that lines up with the alternator, and with the high center mount alternator, you can't run a belt around all three pulleys. Basically, it seems I will have to use the 3rd groove add-on crank pulley, but not sure how much clearance I am going to have with the front cross-member, so I was hoping not to use the extra crank pulley.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/25/PXL_20210626_031236529.jpg

After wracking my brain for how to align the alternator with the forward wp groove, in my end of day delirium, I got to thinking maybe I can run the alt off the rear/inner wp groove, and then run a single belt that combines the outermost (3rd) crank groove with the outermost wp and PS grooves...I didn't get a pic, but if that extra crank pulley will clear when test fitting, that will be the solution...hopefully this all still makes sense tomorrow morning...I need another beer now...

FINOCJ

June 26th, 2021, 06:43 PM

So the pulley alignment issue was just bothering me to no end...I read on internet lore from summit racing that the front face of the dampener should be about 3" from the front machined face of the block - and mine was just under 2.5" so I needed to look into it more (besides the rear groove on the crank was essentially useless as it was and that didn't seem right). As this mock-up is just some test fitting for accessory clearance etc, I don't have any of the timing gears or cover on. Normally the dampener would 'bottom out' against the timing gear, but without the timing gear it went all the way until it bottoms out where the timing gear would stop against the crank shoulder...The timing gear is a bit over 1/2 thick...Here is the new alignment with the timing gear on the crank behind the dampener - both grooves in the upper and lower pulley match up and now I won't have to use the 3rd groove add-on. One belt for the alternator and one for the pump, and both will go around the crank and wp pulleys as well...much better.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/26/PXL_20210626_231253593.jpg

and yes - when it correct, its about 3' from block to front face of the dampener:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/26/PXL_20210626_231019357.jpg

nothing like turning a 30 min job into a 24hr hassle....now back to fit-up....

Jim

June 26th, 2021, 09:09 PM

FINOCJ

June 26th, 2021, 09:25 PM

Ahhh - so much better.

Let me visualize - crank will have two belts contacting it. WP will have two belts contacting it. One of the belts will go to the Alt with the other to the PS, yes?

One of my concerns, with the prior post, was that only one belt would power the water pump AND the second groove of the water pump would power the alt. That condition could likely see what I encounter - the water pump being a high drag item at higher engine RPM - belt slippage at high engine RPM. This is an issue on my jeep's 'new' belt routing with the AC / air pump.

yes to all the above....with the way the high and center alternator mounts, the inner belt will make a very tall and skinny triangle. It will go from the crank, up to the alternator, and go around 135 degrees or so, returning down to the wp with a small amount of pulley contact (maybe 45 degrees) at the wp on its way down and to the crank...the inner wp groove won't get much 'drive', but it will get a little, and the alternator will get lots of drive from the crank. Whereas the outer water pump groove will have a proper amount (near 120 degrees) of belt contact before going to the pump which will have about 120 degrees of contact and then back to the crank where it will have well 120 degrees of contact (the belt path will be close to an equilateral triangle).

FINOCJ

July 11th, 2021, 10:55 AM

I think molasses flows faster than my progress on this thing...still working on getting the engine and drivetrain placement in the correct spot. Maybe getting closer. Although I am using a longer transmission (4speed compared to 3speed), and have an adapter plate behind it, the additional 3 or so inches of length doesn't really push the transfer case and cross-member back (and thus doesn't change the driveshaft lengths etc), as I am also moving the engine forward those same 3 inches. Basically, the crossmember and transfer case mount will be in the exact same spot as OEM, so I thought it was going to be sweet and easy to mount stuff up...the Novak adapter plate has bolt holes in the bottom to fit standard GM isolator mount. But the as the sm465 is not only longer, its also taller (and wider), even with the whole thing pushed up as high as it can go (hitting the floorboards), the adapter plate basically sits on the cross-member, and there is no room to fit the isolator mount....Different solutions included cutting more of the floorboards out, which I felt I was kind of already at that limit, unless I wanted to build an entirely new floor everywhere. Also, this would raise the engine more, and possibly cause issues with the hood. Could raise the body a bit with a 1.5" body lift, but this usually causes issues with through the floor pedals for frame MC and mechanical clutch. Basically, for me, the best solution was to mod the cross-member without weakening it too much (note the crossmember has already been beat to hell from a PO).
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/06/01/PXL_20210601_222840040.jpg

So, my fab skills are pretty much nil. I think this is as good as the cross-member is going to get....I cut out a section of the cross-section to clear the isolator mount. Added a vertical rib to help stiffen in that direction - tried to extend it a couple inches beyond the cut-out to distribute the stress away from the cut-out corners. Used mostly plug welds through the vertical face to weld it in place...haven't decided if I should add more to the top seam.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/11/PXL_20210711_003635157.jpg

Added in the horizontal section - I extended this as well beyond the cut-out - had to leave a small notch for a nut access for the parking brake lever mount:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/11/PXL_20210711_003656257.jpg

Fought getting all the holes to line up - but with enough cussing and swearing it seems to all go together:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/11/PXL_20210711_150156760.jpg

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/11/PXL_20210711_150218139.jpg

Put 1/2" spacers under the D18 side mount to keep everything level:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/11/PXL_20210711_150244804.jpg

Using a lot of random/mismatched hardware I have laying around...as soon as it all looks good, it'll get nice new, proper strength and length set with correct washers etc...I think I might open the bottom holes in the crossmember up just another bit size to make installation a bit easier. Also thinking about using some button head bolts for the upper isolator mount to create a bit more clearance with the top of the cross-member.
Looking at this little summary, its hard to believe how long this has taken me...and its certainly not pretty, and its questionable whether its strong enough. I will have to keep a diligent eye on it and see what happens. I spent quite a lot of time researching building an all new cross-member from tubing with a drop section in the middle, but there are a lot of complications with how that would mount to the frame rails given other issues....seems easy enough to cut out the old crossmember mounts until you see that are integrated into the body mounts and are riveted through the frame. To mount a new cross-member would possibly require redoing the body mounts as well.

FINOCJ

July 11th, 2021, 02:42 PM

Also working on the motor mounts. I have two options for how the mounts work - they end up placing the engine in the same place, just slightly different geometry for the bracket.
I like this one where the mount is higher (above to the frame rail) as it raises the bottom horizontal brace a bit to help with clearing stuff like steering shaft, but the trade-off is the brace mounts kind of high in comparison to the frame rail - in other words, I wonder if it will put too much stress or leverage on my questionable welds? Keep in mind that the frame rails are curving downward towards the rear at this point, so the front edge of the bracket sticks up about 1/2" above the frame rail, its quite a bit more in the rear (a full inch at least).
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/11/PXL_20210711_150540322.jpg

Here is a different view of the driver side mount with the high position...shows better how the bracket will mount to the frame - again, this vertical bracket will pretty much be in this position whether its the high or low mount. This also shows better how with the high mount, it will have more leverage on the top of the bracket above the frame. Definitely would be better for this side to stay high for the steering shaft to go under more easily and have a bit more flexibility with how that will work. In the pic, the steering shaft isn't in place - its just resting on top of the MC - it will be a bit higher when all is said and done.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/11/PXL_20210711_191614536.jpg

Here is the passenger side with the lower mount geometry, and I like that the mount will be more directly matched to the frame rail where the plug welds will be on the bracket - seems a bit stronger, but my general inclination is always to keep things 'tucked up' as much as possible. Its not like the horizontal brace is lower than the oil pan or anything, so maybe it doesn't matter.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/11/PXL_20210711_150507997.jpg

Here is the another view of the passenger side with the 'low' mount position. It may provide a bit less clearance with the bottom of the header collector this way, but its not much of an issue in either position.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/11/PXL_20210711_191511315.jpg
Again, both of these positions create the exact same engine placement (there is both a high and low position on the engine side and on the frame rail side) - its just a matter of which arrangement to use with the bracket mounts for clearance and what not.

FINOCJ

July 12th, 2021, 11:20 PM

Its getting close...don't want to celebrate yet as I still need to check front driveshaft-starter clearance and figure out battery mount, but....after taking jen out for a surprisingly nice cocktail and tapas on Sat night, hot springs and motel, then mtbing this morning, I got her to help me out for the afternoon/evening in the garage. The engine and drivetrain is sitting on the frame mounts and cross-member mount under its own weight. Everything in the engine bay looks good. Hood clearance is not an issue, but its hard to get the engine higher due to the large sm465/D18 combo hitting the floorpans...hopefully this is it:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/12/PXL_20210713_024055992.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/12/PXL_20210713_024119388.jpg

I really like the clearance in the rear with the firewall, distributor and wiper motor....air cleaner is maybe a bit tight with the wiper motor, but its not as bad as it looks, and can probably change that pretty easily to a slightly smaller diameter or 2 inch thick filter instead of 3" thick.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/12/PXL_20210713_024133486.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/12/PXL_20210713_024156666.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/12/PXL_20210713_024234070.jpg

The OEM battery location was driver side firewall - not sure if it doesn't fit with the wider v8s as compared to the OEM L6-226, but the PO moved it to the front passenger fender with the prior sbc swap (the v8 starter is on the passenger side), and it had a poorly designed mount that was bolted to both the body and welded to the frame....need to figure out if it can go back to the firewall (although that is where I put the brake reservoirs for the MC)....or if I can figure out a better mount on the passenger front and make a bracket - maybe something like an early flat fender jeep that attaches to the frame and front cross-member? Its part of why I used a high center alternator mount to leave some clearance for the battery (and maybe an A/C compressor for vintage air one day).

FINOCJ

July 20th, 2021, 02:07 PM

Things have a way of escalating...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/20/PXL_20210720_185831135.jpg

derf

July 20th, 2021, 02:55 PM

The most expensive phrase in automotive work:

"As long as I'm in there..."

FINOCJ

July 28th, 2021, 08:40 PM

So I have a bunch of steering work going on...in the end, it will have a new aftermarket steering column to replace the AMC jeep era column that had been swapped in when the OEM steering was replaced with power steering. I am making some good progress on the new column and steering - and will post that when its a bit more finalized - but as part of the new column, I went with one without the ignition key (the one that came out had the ignition in the column, and it was wonky and there were no 'detents' or stops at each position so it was easy to accidently leave it in ACC or on etc) and both needed/wanted to move the key to the dash in the OEM location.
So this is the keyed ignition wiring harness on the old AMC Jeep column...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/28/PXL_20210717_144720999.jpg

Had to identify the wiring pattern and then move it to this - a standard ACC/OFF/ON/Start 4 position switch. You can pretty much trace all the wires to the end point and figure it out, but it was comforting to find it matched the AMC era jeep wiring diagram down to the exact color of every wire that was taken with the column when the steering swap was done...all the jeep wires had been connected to the OEM willys wires, so I cut-out the jeep wire connections and added in my own that matched the OEM willys wiring.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/28/PXL_20210729_005051156.jpg

A friend reminded me of the ignition bypass wiring necessary with old externally resisted ignition coils and contact points. And although I am not using that type of ignition set-up, many old style ignition switches won't power the coil from the IGN terminal when in the Start position, only the ON (or RUN) position. So I checked the switch and the IGN terminal is closed for both ON and Start positions, so that keeps one less wiring complication - no need for a coil wire from the starter solenoid (which are not common on modern mini starters these days).
Final look:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/28/PXL_20210729_011038048.jpg

FINOCJ

July 29th, 2021, 05:39 PM

Today's small progress forward....set-up 3 new gauges in the cluster. Obviously the cluster mount is not OEM, but I kinda like where it was, and the 'striped' chrome frame kind of gives off a good old school vibe - and way thicker and more substantial than the cheapie frame that came with the new 3 gauge set. I wanted to replace the ammeter with a volt-meter, and the old temp gauge sometimes seemed slow to get going sometimes (although that could have been related to how it was mounted and it took the thermostat to open and get flow going before it read properly). This new one will get mounted directly into the intake. Did all the hard part of getting the wiring etc done on the back of the gauges so I just have two connections to make at the engine...still have some clean-up and organization to do under the dash.....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/29/PXL_20210729_222353021.jpg

FINOCJ

August 1st, 2021, 10:23 AM

made the driver side seat bracket out of an old bed frame I found along side the road a few years ago...this came out pretty well from my POV given some of my adventures with fabbing stuff. The front cross-bar is 1" higher than the rear, which makes the entire seat tilt back just about right...maybe could use a bit more, but that is as much as I could do without bigger modification and more creative design etc. I still need to make a template for the 4 seat mount screws so I can drill the 4 holes into the top plates, but this really should work and I think the seat is well centered behind the column (although its hard to find parallel and perpendicular reference lines/surfaces in the front of these old wagons).
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/31/PXL_20210731_232051224.jpg

FINOCJ

August 11th, 2021, 08:27 PM

I have had a big concern about the brake pedal...in OEM configuration there was going to be an issue with not enough space between the gas pedal and brake pedal to safely move my right foot back and forth - this is due to the sm465 needing a much bigger hole and taking up much more width of tunnel area...it will stick up about vertically about 3 inches from the side of the hole pictured - so moving the gas pedal further right is not much of an option...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/29/PXL_20210729_233716942.jpg
The brake pedal has both a bend to the right (passenger), as well as the pedal pad (not pictured) is offset to the right (passenger) that allow it to avoid conflict with the steering column....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/07/29/PXL_20210729_233412750.jpg

https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/08/10/PXL_20210810_211747410.jpg

So I decided to just cut the end of the pedal arm off with the 'L' offset section and round pad, flip it 180 degrees and weld it back on....My welding skills are rough, but as I think its cast steel, I might have a chance. Figure its worth a shot as if it doesn't work, then its hanging pedals, but might as well try this first?
Results - Far from perfect but think the extra inch it gives should help ...didn't get the front face angle quite right. but it should work well enough for now...If I can figure out the clutch linkage, and its all nice good, I could always cut it and try again.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/08/11/PXL_20210811_223856050.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/08/11/PXL_20210811_224128086.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/08/11/PXL_20210811_224244120.jpg

FINOCJ

August 13th, 2021, 02:24 PM

With the new steering column, I had to come up with a way to mount it. I used the existing behind dash re-enforced bracket - some POs home fab job, but seems pretty functional - and bolted a 2", no-drop, non-adjustable column clamp for that. Then the floor needed some work...I think the original pedal floor panel access was a 2-piece deal such that you could remove the 2 pieces without removing the pedals and arms. In theory this is nice, but practically, I felt the split floor panel wasn't rigid enough for the column floor mount, and there was also 2 different column holes in it (one from the ross box, and one from the FSJ column)....so i welded it all up and cut a new hole appropriate for the ididit style column and used this borgeson floor mount. Yes, the single piece floorpan is a bit more hassle, but the real issue is with the steering column mount as you can't remove the pedals until the entire floor panel is removed, and you can' do that until the steering column is removed - so it didn't really hurt going to the 1-piece floor panel - its going to be a bit of a PITA whether 1 or 2 piece.

I already disassembled the seat and painted the bracket set-up, otherwise I'd have a complete pic, but seems like its going to work and be a comfortable driving position (tilt wheel). I still don't love the pedal arrangement (and yes, the lack of symmetry with the column and bracket is bothersome to my eye), but going to give it a try as is. The column is raw steel, so will need painted...All of these various column clamps etc have very tight fit - I had to lightly sand the inside of the borgeson floor mount just to get the column to slide through - and painting is just going to make stuff more difficult to work with. Thinking of painting with the clamps on, and just reinstalling as a complete unit.

FINOCJ

August 13th, 2021, 08:41 PM

Well, one step forward, and then another wall...doing some detailed cleaning of the intake I wanted to use - its a sbc350 intake from 1970 that was on the sbc283 when I got it. It was going to be a good match for the 487 iron heads I am putting on it, and had the thermal coil choke mount that goes with my q-jet as well as had no EGR aspects....but cleaning found a crack going down between the secondary inlets. I spent quite a bit of time with the machine shop trying to decide how to build the engine....partially because of this intake, I decided to keep the old school aspect, and go all iron heads and intake, and the shop owner found me the 487 heads as an improvement over the 882 smog heads that came on the 1978 sbc350. I do have the 1978 intake, and I guess that will be option number two...it has EGR ports I will have to block off as well as no mount for the choke coil - so not sure if my q-jet will work with it. And of course, back to considering an aftermarket intake as well....I wish I would have seen this first, as I might have gone all out with new aftermarket aluminum heads and intake from the beginning.

Jim

August 13th, 2021, 08:49 PM

I see the crack - could you post an overview picture?

FINOCJ

August 13th, 2021, 09:33 PM

Not sure how big of an issue it is....its on the divider between the 2 plenums on the large 2ndaries below the carb....not sure if this really helps....
here is a CL add for an almost identical intake - its just slightly newer than mine....also helps with the big picture
https://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts/d/colorado-springs-chevy-small-block/7339306036.html

Jim

August 13th, 2021, 09:53 PM

Totally helps - thanks.

No water jack issues and now seeing the U-channel between the plenums, near zero pressure differential. In general, I'd run it as-is for an occasional "monitor the crack" to see if it grows.

Do you think it could grow, unexpectedly (while you're out driving) to a catastrophic condition (leaving you limping home or at the roadside)? I'm leaning to "no" / no worries / use it.

edit: I sent your pictures to my professional auto mechanic buddy asking his opinion. I'll update when I hear back.

Jim

August 13th, 2021, 10:58 PM

The reply:

No coolant near there…. Use it !

derf

August 14th, 2021, 01:30 AM

It wouldn't be impossible to weld that crack up and machine the bores again. I don't know if that would be cheaper than just buying another cast intake.

FINOCJ

August 14th, 2021, 01:07 PM

I don't know if that would be cheaper than just buying another cast intake.
I'd probably just buy an aluminum edelbrock performer style intake if buying new....As I am cheap, and many have said it won't matter much, I am going to give it a run as is...getting some fresh paint on it:

https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/08/14/PXL_20210814_175234785.jpg

Jim

August 14th, 2021, 05:28 PM

I am going to give it a run as is...getting some fresh paint on it

The best look'n, hidden crack east of the Divide... ;)

FINOCJ

September 23rd, 2021, 06:39 PM

Got the engine block and heads back from the machine shop a couple weeks ago. The block was original 4.00" bore size, so now its .030 over. The shop installed the various plugs and cam bearings, but the rest of the bottom end will be up to me.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/08/PXL_20210908_204210585.jpg

I decided to stay with a sort of late 60's/early 70s style 4x4 build. Will try to run the non-egr 1969 cast iron intake with q-jet. Stayed with 70s style cast iron heads, but switched from the late 70's 882 casting that I had to the early 70s 993 casting which should be a small upgrade in durability as its a 'heavier casting' and maybe just a bit of low end performance....both are large 75cc chambers and open chamber 'smog' style so basically the same. OEM versions of these heads would have been matched to the early 70s non-EGR intake I am running, but these heads are aftermarket GM crate engine with the desired 'hecho in Mexico' stamp.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/08/PXL_20210908_211823707.jpg

This head swap was an engine shop focus - I don't think there was anything wrong with the 882 heads for my purpose. Really, I am not to concerned one way or another - its not a performance build. The heads and valve seats were completely redone, new rocker studs, valves etc, but no porting or grinding in the valve area. CR will stay about the same and run on low grade pump gas. The cam is flat tappet style stock replacement as well. Its going to have plenty of power in that form, and probably enough to risk the 70 year old axles if I get a bit too rowdy as is. I just want it to be a good runner....If at some point I want some improvement, aftermarket aluminum heads, intake and or TBI are all options for improvement, and possibly a new cam....but that would be a long ways off....These old willys originally came with a F134 4cyl with 70hp gross...or the optional L6-226 with 110hp gross...this sbc350 will probably be around 190-200hp net...hopefully it blows up u-joint/driveshaft before the axles....

Got the block painted - will soon begin assembling the bottom end and checking clearances...
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/23/PXL_20210923_230350242.jpg

The transmission and transfer case are also pretty much ready to go...a lot of time sealing gaskets etc (the sm465 has 6 total gaskets: 2 PTO covers, FBR, front lower counter shaft bearing, rear output and top cover).
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/23/PXL_20210923_233411418.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/23/PXL_20210923_233323943.jpg

Still need to order some parts - flywheel, clutch etc....

Jim

September 23rd, 2021, 08:39 PM

Parts always look sooo nice when clean and sparkly

Congrats on a nice move forward.

speedkills

September 23rd, 2021, 10:19 PM

Damn those look good.

FINOCJ

September 23rd, 2021, 10:21 PM

Parts always look sooo nice when clean and sparkly
so true....

Damn those look good.
wish they would stay that way....but its going to leak oil and after a while they'll look just like all the other ones....

Jim

September 23rd, 2021, 11:06 PM

From your comment that it'll leak oil...

One tidbit I learned from my mechanic buddy (who commented on your intake man crack). He replaced the oil pan gasket on the car a couple weeks back. He paid very detailed attention to getting the sealing surfaces clean (duh) and FREE OF ANY OIL. The zero oil issue was news to me (perhaps not you).

speedkills

September 23rd, 2021, 11:23 PM

It all gets dirty, but at least you'll have clean pictures to look back on fondly.

TyTheJeepGuy

September 24th, 2021, 11:56 AM

Great work, do you feel that your welding skills are improving with more use?

Also, good luck buying an Edelbrock performer. I'm still waiting for mine and I ordered it in May I think... although we seem to have opposite problems, I need EGR and you need it blocked.

FINOCJ

September 24th, 2021, 12:35 PM

One tidbit I learned from my mechanic buddy (who commented on your intake man crack). He replaced the oil pan gasket on the car a couple weeks back. He paid very detailed attention to getting the sealing surfaces clean (duh) and FREE OF ANY OIL. The zero oil issue was news to me (perhaps not you).

Oh yea....clean both mating surfaces with brake cleaner and/or laquer thinner....absolutely free of anything, and also for them to me flat. It took me a few hours to do the 6 gaskets on the sm465 as I take a lot of time trying to get it perfect. For thinner stamped pans/valve covers etc, there is a tendency for the holes to get dimpled in from overtightening, so I go through and hammer them flat, then file or even put a flap disk on the surface to clean it up and flatten it out. Typically what leaks is not the gaskets, but on the D18, its the rear bearing cap spacers - there is no gasket on it (its a 70+ year old design), and the bearing preload is controlled by the metal shims. Typically, these days, some sort of ultra thin, spray on sealant is used on the shims (have to be careful not to add too much thickness and throw off the preload/endplay), but when you have 4-5 shims stacked between the cap and housing, that is a lot of potential seems directly into the main oil cavity that develop leaks (and the spray gasket stuff sort of works, but I don't think its all that durable). Plus, the other part that leaks is the output seals - especially the rear output which is always in use on the D18 (even in 2wd). There is a classic seal that the output shaft spins through, and given the cheap quality of materials these days, it doesn't take long for that seal to deteriorate. Plus after many years of grit and whatnot collecting, the seal can start to rub a groove into the shaft which only makes the seal less functional. Additionally, many of the bolts are threaded into open holes that go through into central cavity (filled with oil). So all of those have to be very clean and thread sealant used. It all works, but basically, there was never an interest to have a leak free vehicle when jeeps were designed in the 40s for the military. So even though mine is only a 58 or a 70, it uses the exact same set-up as a 40's WWII jeep - old technology. The original manuals on these things talk about redoing all this stuff every 10,000 miles (and full rebuilds with new intermediate shafts and needle bearings every 50-60k miles) - same with diff fluids and what not. Some of that was the quality and quick deterioration of old oils, but usage and manufacturing tolerances where much different then. When I redid the D18 on the cj5, I installed all the parts, filled it up with fluid, and let it sit overnight (didn't run it) - damn if there wasn't a small puddle in the morning just from sitting! Actually, that turned out to be a through bolt I forgot to thread seal, but there are just so many possible passageways for oil to leak. It'll be dry for a year or so, but after a few years it'll find its way through somewhere. Its probably time to redo all the seals on the cj5 D18.

Great work, do you feel that your welding skills are improving with more use?
Some of it is...but not as much as I hoped. The upgrade to the Hobart 140 welder and more voltage options has also helped. I am learning to be more patient and let the weld puddle develop more and not rush through (thin sheet metal not included). But as a high school teacher, there was a lot of recent push to have students learn more on their own through problem based learning, and to provide them the resources needed to complete the task, as opposed to more traditional direct instruction. Supposedly this helps keeps students more engaged....but at some point, there is a frustration level of always trying to teach yourself, even when you have good resources such as books, videos, web instruction etc....at some point, there is HUGE value in having direct person to person. I bet one half day with a skilled welder would do me more good than the last 3 years on my own.

Also, good luck buying an Edelbrock performer. I'm still waiting for mine and I ordered it in May I think... although we seem to have opposite problems, I need EGR and you need it blocked.

I think that is because of the AMC 360 intake is much more rare than a sbc intake. I am going to try re-using and OEM cast iron intake without EGR, but there are lots of used sbc Performer intakes on CL/FB for both spread bore and square bore as well as with or without the EGR. I am not necessarily a 'sbc is the best engine ever' - this is the first one I've owned...but can't argue with the overwhelming amount of aftermarket support and products available. Just so many of these engines out there. Honestly, I think an AMC 304 with T15/D20 combo would be a great set-up in the old Willys (as would a SBF 302 with T18/D20), and the power would be more appropriate (in other words, not overpowered for the components), and it would keep a bit of the jeep lineage. But the cost of a 304/360 build and parts is twice that of a sbc.

TyTheJeepGuy

September 24th, 2021, 04:00 PM

I think that is because of the AMC 360 intake is much more rare than a sbc intake.

I was surprised by this. With how the 27 ish years of FSJ models using AMC V8s and their design staying more or less the same across V8 engines I thought parts availability would be higher. Also they were in the AMC cars, I guess they were popular in the Police Dept Ambassadors but maybe not abundant.

FINOCJ

September 24th, 2021, 07:58 PM

I was surprised by this. With how the 27 ish years of FSJ models using AMC V8s and their design staying more or less the same across V8 engines I thought parts availability would be higher. Also they were in the AMC cars, I guess they were popular in the Police Dept Ambassadors but maybe not abundant.

Yes...but compared to the Gen I sbcv8 produced from 1955 to 1987, and somewhere around 100,000,000 total sbc's sold, its not even close. Plus, there are a lot of carryover parts from Gen I to Gen II vortecs...AMC did some cool stuff, but they just weren't in the same size category. When AMC was selling 10,000 of a model, Chevy was selling 100,000 or more. The Gen I sbc is the most produced engine block ever - by far - especially when you add in the aftermarket crate engine production...But I also think the Gen I is starting to pass into history as well, with the 5.3 LS v8 becoming to go to engine for everything.

Java

September 24th, 2021, 08:07 PM

I don't see why anything you're doing now will end up leaking oil, at least not for quite a few years, you've really kept up the attention to detail. It all looks great, and it's going to be pretty cool to see a Willys Wagon with zero miles on the drivetrain. :thumb:

FINOCJ

September 27th, 2021, 07:54 PM

Small little steps....went old school and checked bearing clearance with plastigage....everything looked okayhttps://beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/27/PXL_20210927_220449498.jpg

Crank and mains are in....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/27/PXL_20210928_000939748.jpg

Pistons and connecting rods tomorrow...maybe cam etc...Jen has me on evening social event in a bit, so have to wrap it up for the night.

speedkills

September 27th, 2021, 08:38 PM

Wait, what replaced plasti-gage? I thought it was still the state of the art, now I just feel old.

FINOCJ

September 27th, 2021, 10:37 PM

Wait, what replaced plasti-gage? I thought it was still the state of the art, now I just feel old.
I assume you used some when setting the preload on the kingpin bearings when adapting to the portal axles....or did you go with the walmart fish scale technique? If you need any extra, I got some. I actually found some at FLAPS down the street - it may have been the last package sitting on the shelf in the metro. I had to educate the counter person what it was for. He said in something like 7 years or so, I was only 2nd person to ever buy any...Of course, the same thing happens when you try to buy points or a condenser...Even a timing light is hard to find these days. Its not that you are old...just an old soul maybe. I mean, that 2011 mercedes is over a decade old....just think of all the fancy schmancy stuff you are missing out on the new ones.:cheers:

speedkills

September 28th, 2021, 10:28 AM

I didn’t end up setting the preload. I wasn’t able to get the correct shims until yesterday so now I have to pull it apart again to do it.

FINOCJ

September 28th, 2021, 05:42 PM

today's progress...just a little bit at a time...small, baby steps...pistons, rings, connecting rods all good to go...most of you have probably seen or done this stuff before, but since its my first engine build, I took a few extra photos of simple stuff, but didn't get the photo with blood dripping down the cylinder wall...blood is a good lubricant right? Took me a bit this morning to figure out a good system or process, but after the first two, it went smoothly - I think my next engine is going to be a 4cyl.
start with getting the rings on the piston:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/28/PXL_20210928_195119245.jpg

Then a ring compressor sleeve:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/28/PXL_20210928_195309982.jpg

Before inserting the piston into the block, I did put the upper half of the bearing shell on the c-rod, lube etc...but then its time to slide the assembly into the cylinder and easy tap the piston into the block:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/28/PXL_20210928_204852706.jpg

the bottom end all done and torqued:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/28/PXL_20210928_215948138.jpg

from the top:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/28/PXL_20210928_221521473.jpg

FINOCJ

September 30th, 2021, 01:00 AM

Today was more of the little tedious stuff....some clearances checked, crank keys and timing sprocket went on, oil pump fitted and the pick-up screed depth was set, cam installed and degreed, and I confirmed a proper TDC pointer for the new harmonic balancer. I also meant to get the dowel pins installed in the deck for the heads, but forgot - got distracted playing around with the cam and taking measurements (and also went down a couple of rabbit holes reading all about cams).

A lot of hard core builders don't want to hear it, but the engine shop basically said we'd never discourage you from checking all clearances, but reality is, you could build 1000 of these completely stock 350 truck builds with the off the shelf parts, and never find one that had an issue. Its really only an issue when you start mixing and matching and building non-standard stuff, or push the performance envelope to the max. Mine is bored .030 over with the crank journals undersized by 0.010 - about as standard as it gets. So I am checking stuff to confirm and learn, but I am not stressing too much about it, and in some cases, I am making do with non-ideal measurement tools (like I didn't spend the money for a good bore diameter tool). There is probably more error in my measurements than there is in the machine and production work. But so far, I have not found anything that is concerning anyway...crank main #1 was on the tight side (using plastigage), otherwise everything else seems pretty good. Also checked the rod journal width/side play in the rods, piston to deck clearance, etc, and a bunch of cam degree checks today as well. Its a stock cam - total valve is lift is only like .390/.410 using 1.5 rockers, so it not even close to causing issues anywhere in the valve train.

Here is the new oil pump, and I added a new pick-up as well as one of the few 'upgrades' from stock I am doing, which is the metal collar/sleeve on the pump driveshaft instead of the plastic one.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/29/PXL_20210929_195223724.jpg

Getting the new pick-up 'pressed' into the pump is a PITA - no really good way to 'drive' or press it in until I saw a pic in the Atherton book where it looked like an open end wrench could possibly be used to slip over the tube and then you can hammer on the wrench handle right near the open end. It took some rapping, but it worked:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/29/PXL_20210929_195824919.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/29/PXL_20210929_195831283.jpg

For as hard as it is to drive the pick-up tube in, it still can rotate somewhat easily, and I guess they have a tendency to move out of position at some later point. I set the depth according to spec, and then put a little tack weld on it (wondering if a modern solution would have just been to use some oil resistant JB weld around the edge).
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/29/PXL_20210929_205846515.jpg

Then it was time to move to the cam and timing...I was able to use the dampener that has 90 degrees of markings on it, to make a full 360 tape and used that in place of the traditional degree wheel. Its not accurate to the half degree, but probably to 1-2 degrees, and allowed me to confirm well enough what I needed. Here, getting TDC set, and getting my pointer set:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/29/PXL_20210930_024217093.jpg
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/29/PXL_20210930_024226473.jpg

And finally, my set-up for measuring the cam lobes using the lifters...cam is OEM replacement, so its minimal lift and relatively short duration (something like 185/195 duration at .050 with lift of .390/.410 - one thing that threw me off, I wasn't expecting a dual profile with the slight differences in the intake and exhaust....). All this work to verify the cam grind and see if the centerline timing was off wouldn't really matter much anyway, as the timing gear and sprocket set I used is fixed, non-adjustable (guess you could use some sort of 'offset bushing') OEM style...so it was more about Cam 101 class today.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/29/PXL_20210930_050213169.jpg

Maybe tomorrow I can kind of make it at least start to look complete...finalize the timing stuff and get the heads on, and then I have to go review how to set valve lash and finish the valve train....Who knows, maybe I can even work on finalizing the intake, oil pan, front cover, water pump etc, and kind of get it all together.

Jim

September 30th, 2021, 09:08 AM

(wondering if a modern solution would have just been to use some oil resistant JB weld around the edge)

I like your tack weld route. I'd hate to see a small chunk of JB weld, over the years, become dislodged from where it should be and become a hard bit in the oil - to cause problems.

My `68 Ford wagon 302-v8 had plastic coated timing chain gears (or maybe only one of them). A small bit of plastic (grain of rice) dislodged after the plastic became well old and brittle. That little grain was sucked up into the oil pump which caused the oil pump gears to stop motion and thus the pump's drive shaft to break - instant and 100% valid low oil pressure light with a car at the side of the road.

FINOCJ

September 30th, 2021, 09:31 AM

My `68 Ford wagon 302-v8 had plastic coated timing chain gears (or maybe only one of them). A small bit of plastic (grain of rice) dislodged after the plastic became well old and brittle. That little grain was sucked up into the oil pump which caused the oil pump gears to stop motion and thus the pump's drive shaft to break - instant and 100% valid low oil pressure light with a car at the side of the road.

Those plastic coated timing chains were common in the late 60s-70s and caused a lot of issues, albeit after high mileage usage (100k in those days). My 78 sbc probably had that originally (I still have have the timing chain I pulled out in a box - I should see what it is). They seemed to stretch a lot as well - and the one I took out was definitely stretched. The 70 v6 in the cj also had one from the factory in those days. I think the idea was the plastic was a sort of low friction, low wear idea, but not sure plastics engineering was up for it back in the day. Both the v6 and this v8 have all metal replacement chains - but I kept it simple as single chain design, not double chain set-up. There are also aftermarket timing gear sets that eliminate the timing chain all together and just use a 3rd gear between the crank sprocket and cam timing gear. Lots of cool stuff out there. The 58 project as a whole has worn me out, and some of the hassle hasn't probably been worth it, but the engine build was something I have been looking forward to, and its been great so far. As long as I don't trash the cam during start-up and break-in...

FINOCJ

September 30th, 2021, 08:24 PM

Daily update....A little progress each day....Here is the old dampener:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/30/PXL_20210930_052131083-1.jpg
I decided to replace it as the sandwiched rubber was cracked and some of the edges seemed to have been torn out - especially in the 10-11 oclock range in the photo.

Before I could put the heads on, new dowel pins go in the block:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/30/PXL_20210930_183530383.jpg

Then finalized the timing chain/gears, front cover, dampener and pulleys etc, and then put the heads on, torqued in sequence to proper spec:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/30/PXL_20210930_201329128.jpg

Finally, the rest of the valve train - lifters, pushrods, rockers, and valve lash adjusted:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/09/30/PXL_20211001_010008911.jpg

Feels like its getting close...

FINOCJ

October 1st, 2021, 10:46 AM

Question....i am getting the oil pan and intake etc on, and then its going to sit for a few weeks before hopefully its fully installed and ready to start and break-in. When the time comes, it'll get standard break-in procedure with oil pump priming beforehand, but wondering if I should add fluid (oil and break-in additive etc) now and prime the pump before it sits for weeks? On previous rebuilt engine (cj v6 done by local shop), I added oil and primed the pump and engine the day I did start-up and break-in. I never thought about it before, but the ready to go engine sat for a few weeks assembled with lube, but no oil or priming. Basically, I don't think it really matters to just let it sit with assembly lube, but just wondering if it might be better to spin the pump and cycle oil through before it sits for a bit. FWIW, the assembly lube is oil soluble.

Jim

October 1st, 2021, 10:54 AM

Q: If it was to be a few weeks before you'd get around to assembling - would you oil the unassembled items (perhaps to inhibit rust)?

I don't think it much matters (49/51%) though I'd lean to wait. `curious to hear other thoughts.

FINOCJ

October 1st, 2021, 11:01 AM

would you oil the unassembled items (perhaps to inhibit rust)?

there won't be anything left unassembled or exposed....it will ready install, complete and gasketed etc. I am just going to be traveling out of town for 10 days, and then I'll probably need at least week to get the engine bay ready, the trans/TC all mated up and bolted in, and then the electrical wired in.

FINOCJ

October 18th, 2021, 10:58 PM

Working on tedious stuff recently...painting lots of little stuff etc....Pretty much finished up with the engine build, but I ran into a annoying issue...the plug for the water jacket port on the side of one of the heads was completely stuck...in trying to get it out, I broke the impact driver off in it. I did get the broken piece out, and tried some more, but at some point, without more heat than I could put to it, it was just rounding out the socket plug. I don't know how I missed this earlier, but I did not want to tear the engine apart to get it out it at this point - so I just had to work around it.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/15/PXL_20211015_182722818.jpg

Anyway, the reason this is an issue is that I need 2 separate access points for temp probes: one for the gauge and one for the electric fan. One of the head ports is good to go, so the temp gauge will go there, but since I am using the old 1970 vintage intake, which only has one water jacket port normally used for heater hose connection, I am back to having to fiddle with some sort of riser neck at the thermostat outlet. The one I used previously on the 283 leaves the thermostat in place at the intake, and is just a spacer below the outlet neck with two 3/8" ports. I put the electric fan temp probe in it last time, and I guess it works, but the temp does make contact with the top of the thermostat housing and there is just a smidge of interference. Plus, I don't love that the temp sensor is downstream of the t-stat, but in reality, the fan wouldn't need to kick on until the t-stat is open.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/15/PXL_20211016_004335159.jpg

I thought I might have had a good solution when I found a t-stat riser with ports that raises the t-stat and goes between the intake and the t-stat, which would place the temp sensor upstream of the t-stat. But the bottom end of the t-stat is larger than the top end, and there is no hope to fit the sensor probe without interfering with the spring action of the t-stat. So I thought I was getting smart and figured that I could just swap the heater hose fitting to port on the riser (and put the temp sensor directly in through the intake)....it looks kind of goofy, and hose routing would be a bit more cumbersome, but I guess it could work:
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/15/PXL_20211016_012238645.jpg

Of course, when originally test fitting all the pieces, I wasn't expecting to use a spacer at the t-stat, and the radiator hose neck had plenty of clearance with the high mount alternator. But with the 1" spacer, things don't fit. There is just enough clearance with the alternator adjustment completely maxed out, and I would probably also need to re-clock the alternator so as to not short the +12V terminal to the block.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/15/PXL_20211016_004323103.jpg

FINOCJ

October 18th, 2021, 11:04 PM

So after spending way too much time trying figure out a solution, and investigating various ways to route coolant bypass through multi-valve heater circuit switch etc, I am back to using a water neck that puts the electric fan temp sensor 'downstream' of the t-stat, but hopefully at least it all fits now.

First, I clocked the case a 1/4 turn to get the +12V terminal away from the thermostat housing neck and give a bit more clearance, and but then another part of the case is interfering with the heater hose nipple.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/16/PXL_20211016_065640201.jpg

If you go another 1/4 turn with clocking, the 2-blade connector is too far down and blocked by the bracket mount, and yet another 1/4 turn puts the +12V down at the bottom and into the manifold....4 positions and all have issues...
So the final answer....the alternator is clocked, but changed the heater hose outlet and alternator bolt to create clearance, and using the later style water neck with port on the top. The fan sensor doesn't contact the thermostat, but yes, it's downstream of the t-stat so it won't get a proper temp reading until it opens a bit, but if the t-stat is closed, the fan does not need to be running anyway. Like earlier sbc's, there is no coolant bypass although I could run if needed (the water pump does have the bypass inlet that I plugged). For now, the heater flow path has no shut off and will act like a bypass. Eventually it will get a shut off valve/flow control on the heater circuit. I will probably drill a small bubbler hole in the t-stat to get air out, and maybe that will also provide a minute amount of bypass flow. I was originally concerned an air pocket could develop in the neck where the temp sensor port is and disturb the temp reading, but it's smooth round sphere on the inside - same as without the port - so air bubble should not be a problem.

https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/16/PXL_20211016_195109959.jpg

FINOCJ

October 18th, 2021, 11:20 PM

Now its time to wrap up the steering....Ever since this project started, I have been fighting figuring out how to route the steering shaft that basically seems set-up to go straight through the motor mount without getting overly complex with the u-joints etc. Basically, I wanted to keep it to 2 u-joints so I didn't have to use a shaft support/carrier bearing. Once you move to 3 single u-joints, or 1 single and 1 double joint, you need the shaft support. I have one single joint at the input to the steering box to replace the old school rag joint, which left me with only 1 additional joint before it got complicated....and a single joint can only handle angles of up to like 35 degrees or so. Anyway, I probably should have done the support shaft and 1 double joint and 1 single (and possible extension shaft at the bottom of the column to bring everything lower to stay under the motor mount), but I am going with the notch out the motor mount to create clearance and use a bit more simple steering shaft linkage...
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/18/PXL_20211019_005443804.jpg

https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/18/PXL_20211019_005457599.jpg

So the question becomes...How much clearance does it really need?

https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/18/PXL_20211019_012647535.jpg

No pictures, but I even got the interior steering column, floor and dash mounts, along with the floor pan and pedals all painted and mounted inside the cab. Assuming it looks as good tomorrow as I think it is now, I hope to get the steering shaft drilled for the ujoint cross-pins, paint everything and finalize install in the next day or two. Then its get the brake system back in, make any changes in brake line routing that is needed, and then its close to time to put the entire drivetrain in a single huge install.

FINOCJ

October 24th, 2021, 01:32 AM

Steering is finalized, brakes MC and lines (with a bit of re-bending) are back in and bled. Starting to come together....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/24/PXL_20211024_061352665.jpg

I didn't paint the aluminum bellhousing, but wondering if I should have...Flywheel, clutch, pilot bearing, fork and TO bearing are all in under the bellhousing and I can go to bed now after midnight and sleep well knowing the input shaft is threaded through. I almost forgot I had to make some minor modifications to the clutch fork before install as I intend to use a pull cable to activate, and the generic sbc forks are set-up for a push linkage - So I drilled a little hole and slot to fit the cable end/adjuster nut thingy. D18 is next, as well as the mini starter motor which may need some clocking. And I am still fighting some issues with the top cover on the sm465, but hope to get that figured out tomorrow. Maybe I might even think about trying to setting it all into the wagon on the mounts. I still have a clutch cable bracket for the D18 to modify or fab. I leave Tues for a bit, and it would be awesome to at least have it bolted in on the mounts and cross-member in....

Jim

October 24th, 2021, 01:38 AM

brakes MC and lines (with a bit of re-bending) are back in and bled

Congrats!! You mentioned that step could be a tough one.

Solid progress - sleep well.

FINOCJ

October 24th, 2021, 01:54 AM

Yup, bleeding the front brakes seems to be more difficult than it should be...I put in a Willwood dual circuit MC over a year and a half ago...With that I also had to basically make a new front circuit of brake lines (the OEM single circuit set-up was just a long line that went CW around from the LF to LR, and it also stepped down in size after the RF to normal diameter. So I made an entirely new front circuit, and then made the front half of the rear circuit. and connected it in where the old line diameter change junction was. The rear circuit has been easy and flawless both times I have had to bleed it from scratch, and both times, the front circuit has been a complete PITA. There are things about the Willwood cylinder I don't like, but I think the main problem is at either the flex hoses that got to the wheel cylinder, or the wheel cylinders themselves (which are new last year). The hoses are not new, and probably should be replaced - they may be the problem. It seems I basically have to completely disassemble the rubber hose from the hard line junction and then at the wheel cylinder and ensure fluid is good at each junction, and even then, the bleed volume out of the wheel cylinder is pitiful. And as the drums are 'inboard' style, getting them off to get to the brake components and wheel cylinder requires pulling the hubs, locking hubs and wheel bearing. These brakes are getting replaced next summer. I have a set of 4 11" self-adjusting bendix style backing plates like used on later jeeps and FSJs....I run a pair on the front of the cj5 (10" set on the rear which is OEM. Additionally, I don't want to have to deal with the manual shoe adjuster cams anymore - they are part of the hassle of getting stuff bled as well. Manually adjusted brakes are not a piece of old iron technology that I care to keep around...

FINOCJ

October 24th, 2021, 11:19 PM

A little bit of progress today....sm465 top cover and D18 is all installed. Getting the clutch figured out as well....
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/24/PXL_20211025_025719680.jpg

The large case D18 clutch cable bracket works quite easily with a little spacer on the small case D18....The cable doesn't pull straight back, but I think it should be fine.
https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/10/24/PXL_20211025_025745333.jpg

The cable is my cheap Omix v6/T14 cable that I carry as a spare (they like to break)....assuming it works, I'd order the high quality one from inline tube. But, one thing I was a bit worried about, with the longer 4 speed and adapter, a lot of length of the inner cable is used up, and there isn't much cable left coming out of the pedal end of the sheath - doesn't leave much room to mount the bracket for that end and and reach the pedal.....I'll probably have to figure out how to functionally extend the cable a bit....maybe a little extension of all thread connected to the threaded end that the adjuster nut screws onto, and/or maybe add a link to the pedal end.

Jim

October 24th, 2021, 11:31 PM

.I'll probably have to figure out how to functionally extend the cable a bit

A thought comes to me (likely not able to be used but I'll toss it out). Instead of using your mount that's 20" behind where you would like it - could you place that mount on a frame rail or cross member that is closer to the clutch?

FINOCJ

November 7th, 2021, 12:06 AM

Was trying to prime the oil pump and flow oil up to the rockers today with my priming tool...its the cheapo one I bought for the 225v6 a few years ago (and it worked great), and I was certain it was advertised as also functional for the the sbcv8 (after some review - yes its advertised for the sbc and bbc as well - but a lot of complaints!).
Anyway, the driver side valve train primed nicely, but the passenger side was nothing, not an effing drop....so I did all the things you do like turn the crank a bit, run the primer drill for long time, run it at high and low speeds, and then basically freak out that something is really screwed up and some oil galley passageway is blocked and am going to have to disassemble the engine.
But then some internet research indicates that the generic cheapo priming tool has some sort of design flaw that doesn't work with the sbc set-up....the lower 'bushing' does not match the distributor, and blocks the passenger side oil galley at the pump, or something like that....So I cannibalized the useless HEI that came with the used engine and made my own tool....
https://beamingpix.com/images/2021/11/06/PXL_20211107_043215984.jpg

You can see the difference in the lower bushing - the blue cheap tool has the bushing higher up the shaft, and the groove between the two ridges is much wider. I welded a hex nut on the end of the 1/2" shaft to make it easier to spin, and my 1/2" drill is big and heavy, and I have very limited space up against the firewall. I am hoping I will be able to spin it with my air ratchet once its installed. Its not really necessary, but I'd like to have the lower end a bit more finished with the 'over' sleeve or collar that goes around the flathead end to help it stay stable on the pump groove. Might have to cannibalize the distributor gear, but would have to either cut off the tooth section, or grind them off in some way (without a mill or lathe).

Jim

November 7th, 2021, 12:11 AM

I am interested in the next installment of this issue...

FINOCJ

November 7th, 2021, 12:20 AM

I forgot to add, I haven't actually tested the new tool - was too worn out and tired tonight to continue on with it, but pretty confident its going to work tomorrow. The engine isn't in the vehicle yet, but getting close to trying to set it in. I was adding fluid to all the components as its much easier to fill the trans and transfer case when its not under the vehicle. So then I got a bit sidetracked and tried priming the engine. Wasn't sure how easy it was going to be to get the drill and old priming tool in place with the limited firewall clearance, so I wanted to check some things....and well I found some things. Hoping the new homemade tool will actually work quite a bit better (have easier access and more clearance) once the engine is in place. Did some other tedious stuff today as well with wiring and pedal linkages - nothing fun or exciting. Some fuel line work tomorrow, a bit more wiring and then maybe try dropping the eninge in place. Even then, it will be a while before cranking as there is a lot of electrical to figure out. Switching from the generator with ammeter to the alternator with voltmeter, as well as moving the alternator to the passenger side means some fundamental changes in the wiring layout. Clutch is still a question mark as well....