COVID: A little something to lighten your day.

[Tom]

Admin Edit: NSFW


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4&feature=youtu.be

[Jim]

Admin:
Moved from General to Chat
Added NSFW to the first post



Politics?

[Jim]

Giggles:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7dVJkyyYMQ

[Tom]

Admin:
Moved from General to Chat
Added NSFW to the first post

Politics?
Imo. Humor not politics

[4x4JeePmaNthINg]

made me laugh

[Tom]

https://youtu.be/DJZuZzU2Vsg

[speedkills]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA4KS546rZo

[FINOCJ]

The Denver stay at home order included closing liquor and dispensaries...that didn't work so well...humorous, true, sad...a little bit of all
https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/liquore-store-lines-surge-after-denver-announces-stay-at-home-order-brewery-dispensary-closures/73-63c26b49-8826-4e54-9a8a-18eb4ae49495 (https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/liquore-store-lines-surge-after-denver-announces-stay-at-home-order-brewery-dispensary-closures/73-63c26b49-8826-4e54-9a8a-18eb4ae49495)

[open_circuit]

that didn't work so well...humorous, true, sad...a little bit of all

There are (likely) more people chemically dependent on alcohol than most realize. It would be a disaster to have folks going through severe withdrawal end up in the hospital or dead during this panic. I think you'll find liquor stores are classified as "critical" nearly everywhere there is a lock down order. It is sad to consider this.

[FINOCJ]

I think you'll find liquor stores are classified as "critical" nearly everywhere there is a lock down order. It is sad to consider this.
On a video chat with family last night and the ones back east in metro areas that are on 'lock-down' or something similar were also discussing liquor stores and asked about our dispensaries...they did not believe the denver order had closed liquor - I had to send them the link. There was a 'bet' on how long that would last or if the owners would just ignore and law enforcement would just ignore etc...so I checked this morning, and it was the first link on 9news!

[Tom]

Nevermind

[Jim]

There are (likely) more people chemically dependent on alcohol than most realize.

My first thought on liquor stores staying open had me wondering why - I could see no reason for it - now I can see a reason for it. Sad, yes.

[Java]

As long as we're being light, I have to admit -with all deference to anyone who is having any struggle associated with this- that I'm enjoying this time off. We're healthy and loaded up on everything we need and we laid ourselves off and closed up so we can use our unemployment insurance. We've been hiking every day and the trails are empty except for nice people that are willing to step 20 feet off trail to avoid each other. My dog is thrilled, but confused by not saying hello to everyone. Less airplane and traffic noise too. We're working out every morning, cooking all our own food, watching movies and getting a ton of stuff done. I met my wife in college and this feels just like it. As long as we stay healthy I'm looking at aleast 17 more days of essentially forced and paid vacation.

I hope everyone else stays healthy too!!

[open_circuit]

Still quite busy with work here. My kids are really struggling with not being around other children. This week it's really hitting them hard. Hopefully next week it'll be better when they start some online learning. The school district is planning to resume classes remotely at the beginning of April.

[Jim]

Not much of any difference in life for me - much of my work is via remote / work from home with clients. They're still call'n and I'm still answer'n.

[FINOCJ]

I don't mind some time off work - or lets say a change in the way we are working as school teachers for a bit. Last week was time consuming trying to do remote learning for the first time, and I don't honestly think its going to be all the successful in the short term. Its not that I think online learning itself is the issue, its just that most of us teachers have minimal background with it, and had all of 1-3 days to prepare. I am sure if the entire public school system started developing and using this model, it could be effective with some time (say a few years) , but it also might require a quite the change in teaching staff as an online/remote learning teacher may have/need a very different mindset or personality....One issue is that many classroom teachers do what we do because we much prefer to interact with people in a person to person environment, and the switch to digital communication is not our natural communication method, and thus is very tedious and tiring. For many teachers, the lack of social interaction will destroy continued interest in the profession. One of the reasons I left the corporate oil industry was basically that I sat in a cubicle and communicated with people in the field and all over the world through a digital platform...tedious misery for me. Of course, from my personal standpoint, I already struggle with teaching as I am not very extroverted and spending 8 hrs a day with forced interaction is exhausting. In some ways, its nice to not have to deal with moody, always complaining students for a bit - let parents deal with them! But, the time spent in front of my computer screen is now at 8-12 hrs a day with unending digital communications with students, parents, admin etc, and I am not sure what is worse - dealing with kids in person or unending time communicating with digital technology. As a friend mentioned, I ought to be happy as forced isolation is right up my introverted alley, and watching other struggle with it like us introverts struggle with forced socializing for work etc will be a bit gratifying. ok - back to the basement, have some miter cuts to make....

[open_circuit]

As a friend mentioned, I ought to be happy as forced isolation is right up my introverted alley, and watching other struggle with it like us introverts struggle with forced socializing for work etc will be a bit gratifying. ok - back to the basement, have some miter cuts to make....

:thumb: I feel like I have spent most of my life preparing to be stuck at home indefinitely.

And now for a useful link regarding food safety and takeout:

https://www.seriouseats.com/2020/03/food-safety-and-coronavirus-a-comprehensive-guide.html

[Jim]

What help has the school district presented / offered to get teachers set up? Did they leave folks to figure it out on their own (visit Skype, etc and create accounts...) or did they say this is the platform that is going to be used between you and your students?


In not-so-related news - I've been watching way too many CheapRVliving vids on YouTube. Hmmmm.... Could I see myself living out of a van? I spent four months living out of saddle bags on the motorcycle and found I could live that way permanently. Having a mobile location with a window to different scenery week by week. So long as I'm connected for phone calls and remote access on the laptop. Hmmm...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAj7O3LCDbkIR54hAn6Zz7A

[FINOCJ]

What help has the school district presented / offered to get teachers set up? Did they leave folks to figure it out on their own (visit Skype, etc and create accounts...) or did they say this is the platform that is going to be used between you and your students?

JeffCo is a google supported district, so we use a lot of google stuff....Schoology is also popular and supported by the district, and has better control on assessments etc....The big issue isn't access to software, its the teach it to yourself while trying it out with students in a crash course that is difficult. In some ways, the districts tech center just keeps sending us 'cool' software that could be really useful, but most of us can't figure it out fast enough to use it effectively. I choose to focus on and use Google Classroom as its more easily tied to my existing Google drive cloud storage and calendar. Supposedly its also connected to our district gradebook function so I don't have to manually transfer grades from one to the other, but so far I am transferring manually - its not really a huge issue at this time. A lot of other software and web apps for various communication etc (e.g. google meet, chat, zoom etc) are tricky as it has to be pre-approved by the district for all sorts of child and information protection/security issues. It doesn't really bother me as I am not up to speed on most of this stuff - and I am not trying to re-create my classroom environment. In other words, I don't really intend to try and video myself 'lecturing' and then post it up...I'd rather just link to something like Khan Academy. I become less of the teacher giving direct instruction, and instead am trying to provide my students with useful places to get good info without wasting lots of time, and re-create the assignments to build on what was emphasized in the information I linked them to. Without a doubt, the content will be less connected and more isolated topics than I'd like, but we're also dealing with the reality of what the situation is. I certainly will have some more project type assignments that will be longer and more individually researched etc....Google classroom is pretty nice for how it organizes and keeps up with each student's turned in work etc - much easier than me trying to collect 150 emailed attachments and sort them into a bunch of different folders etc - especially if I am trying view a bunch of different images the student have made or attached.

But any digital interface will always have an issue with managing students doing independent work - especially for something like a quiz or test. So, I guess a decision has to be made as to whether one wants to try and give some sort of traditional 'test' or just accept this environment and the 'honor code' among a significant number of students will not be followed. Sorry - I am a bit negative on this, but my experience is that students cheat all the time in traditional classrooms - and over my first week of distance learning, the amount of 'independent' work that looked just like another students (including errors, mis-spellings, odd font changes in the middle often due to blatant copy and paste from different websites) is very high. On any given assignment, I would estimate/expect 30-50% of students to push the boundary of what is independent work and not follow the honor code - the attitude is completely about getting the passing grade with minimal work as opposed to learning the content. In a traditional environment, that attitude will come back to bite the students on a traditional test, but in this environment, that is not so easy. I'd rather not fight it, and give alternative type assessments where the goal is to actually utilize web sources and information. As i joked with my jr/sr physics student, I have no problem making your tests open note and book, unlimited time etc, but if you want it that way, be prepared for one helluva hard test! I truly believe there is value in traditional testing in a monitored environment (whether that be a unit test, final exam, SAT etc), but I believe that value is lost quickly when the environment cannot be monitored.

A different environment requires a different learning experience and different set up from the instructor...and also a much more motivated student to truly accomplish much learning. I am already seeing an increasing divide between the typically motivated A/B students, and then the less motivated, just get by students. In the traditional environment, students at least see an hour of content each day - just by attending class. Plus, most teachers give quite a lot of time to get classwork/homework done in class. So many students I have will never complete an assignment out of class - if they don't finish in class, it will eventually get turned in just as is. I have no expectation that about 50% of my students will actually do 'homework' at home. Those students that need the structure and time that actually going to school/class provides, if not the teacher's energy to drag them along (or should I say support them with completing work) will need to find some new motivation to be successful in this remote learning situation. I actually think there is some good reality that will come from this...It going to put more responsibility on students (and parents) take control on their own learning and do what they need to do to pass, as opposed to being carried along by the system or other students or teachers etc...we'll see, but I think the bi-modal split with grades is only going to get more extreme.

Tom started this as a humor thread, and it got serious....:eek:

[Jim]

Thanks for that comprehensive bit of kit. Humorous or not.

The personal touch to help those that could use the gentle tug to get work done / have a topic explained differently so they "get it" might not happen outside of the in-person environment. If the low grade kids don't want to put in the work, a divide could be expected to widen between them and the A/B kids.

Hang in there.

I'll be curious how this event is handled - the asterisk on the records - for many that might not meet education (graduation) requirements but the system pushed things along anyway. I'm thinking there will be no do-over where all kids simply repeat the school year, next year.

Humor, you say?

https://b3ta.com/

[Tom]

Sounds like Boulder County is going to issue a Stay at Home order tomorrow.

https://www.timescall.com/2020/03/24/boulder-county-positive-coronavirus-test-total-reaches-46/

[Tom]

What help has the school district presented / offered to get teachers set up? Did they leave folks to figure it out on their own (visit Skype, etc and create accounts...) or did they say this is the platform that is going to be used between you and your students?


In not-so-related news - I've been watching way too many CheapRVliving vids on YouTube. Hmmmm.... Could I see myself living out of a van? I spent four months living out of saddle bags on the motorcycle and found I could live that way permanently. Having a mobile location with a window to different scenery week by week. So long as I'm connected for phone calls and remote access on the laptop. Hmmm...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAj7O3LCDbkIR54hAn6Zz7A
My wife teaches in SVVSD and they had two conference calls/ meetings discussing how to do them, but its up to the teachers to do most everything else. She didn’t say much but I am not impressed.

[FINOCJ]

I'll be curious how this event is handled - the asterisk on the records - for many that might not meet education (graduation) requirements but the system pushed things along anyway. I'm thinking there will be no do-over where all kids simply repeat the school year, next year.

Most school districts will petition the school board and ask for a waiver from the state legislature if any issue comes up where seniors won't reach the minimum number of required hours - and I would easily guess that all waivers will be granted without issue. Heck, we even did a waiver a couple years ago when we had two late snow days due to a big spring storm after graduation dates had been set etc...While I don't see any issue with the waivers, and even with underclassman missing some significant learning - if everything is back to normal next fall (which is not guaranteed), there will be some gaps to fill in content areas that are sequential (math comes to mind mostly), but I would not be too concerned. If the situation either persists into next fall, or possibly such issues become more frequent, repetitive or even yearly occurrences - then our current students will suffer some deficiencies as a new normal is established and possible new paradigm around education is developed to handle such situations. Hope I used 'paradigm' correctly there....good SAT word....

[Spieg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AZ_PRNilv0&bpctr=1585101211

[newracer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_iBOg5OfBg

[newracer]

https://imgur.com/gallery/u19vFSs

[Getaklu]

My kids are really struggling with not being around other children.

Our daughter was as well. We found a Face Time, Skype, Zoom, or other type of video "play date" has helped a lot. They schedule the next one while on their call which gives them something to look forward to.

[ColoJeeper]

Day five of quarantine and just a bit stir crazy. Struck up a conversation with a spider, turns out he is a web designer.

[Getaklu]

.

[Getaklu]

Ironic (funny) more than funny (haha):

Someone in the neighborhood put a "boredom box" in the park behind my house. This was presented as "take a game/leave a game" sort of community toy box so families would have more variety of things to do to keep busy. Nice concept, but not the brightest given what could be lurking on the game pieces etc.

[Java]

A church in my neighborhood tried to do a "Social Distance Sidewalk Dance Party", which meant they were going to blast music from their tower while people danced atleast six feet apart on the sidewalk. Just like the old testament. There was some strong backlash, especially since places like Fire On The Mountain across the street were taking almost hazmat level precautions. the posts on Nextdoor were hysterical, and they called it off. Turns out you can't gentrify a virus.

[Coonburger]

Just a tin foil hat thought, lol

[Tom]

Found out today that my nephews wife has it. He’s been wheeling with fr4x4 a few times. She joined us several years ago on a San Juan trip, and walked the first couple of switchbacks on black bear.

Went to the ER with difficulty breathing and they sent her home.

[FINOCJ]

Best Wishes Tom. Its going to affect someone each person knows and more. A jeep friend (ran Red Cone with Louis, Tyler and I few years ago) - his mother and her husband are not doing well with it right now. Thought this was interesting....
https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1243281598037913600

[Getaklu]

Back to some humor

[Rocrawlr]

The Mountains are calling

[RockyMtRebel]

That’s hilarious ^^.... lol

I saw something on Facebook a couple weeks ago that made me laugh, “Can’t wait to be eating squirrel around a campfire with all the other survivors”


Morbid thoughts but made me laugh

[Brian]

https://i.imgur.com/nvPl7BOl.jpg

[Tom]

Couple more from a friend of mine.

[Jim]

Please to enjoy:

https://thechive.com/2020/04/04/the-crafty-ways-people-are-masking-up-for-battle/

[Jim]

https://thechive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/weekend-morning-awesomeness-38-photos-14.jpg

[Getaklu]

Mask per the latest recommendation:

[Jim]

A different type of registration came in today. Someone, with a stated location of New City NY (yes, there is such a city), put in a reg with a username of "ImMiserable". Well, "ImMiserable" of New City, NY, we hope you find a good offroad group close to you.

[Jim]

Half of us are going to come out of this quarantine as amazing cooks. The other half will come out with a drinking problem.

I used to spin that toilet paper roll like I was on Wheel of Fortune. Now I turn it like I'm cracking a safe.

I need to practice social-distancing from the refrigerator.

PSA: Every few days try your jeans on just to make sure they fit. Pajamas will have you believe all is well in the kingdom.

Homeschooling is going well: 2 students suspended for fighting and 1 teacher fired for drinking on the job.

I don't think anyone expected that when we changed the clocks we'd go from Standard Time to the Twilight Zone.

This morning I saw a neighbor talking to her cat. It was obvious she thought her cat understood her. I came into my house and told my birds - we laughed a lot.

Quarantine Day 5: Went to this restaurant called THE KITCHEN. You have to gather all the ingredients and make your own meal. I have no clue how this place is still in business.

My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

Day 5 of Homeschooling: One of these little monsters called in a bomb threat.

I'm so excited! It's time to take out the garbage. What should I wear?

I hope the weather is good tomorrow for my trip to Puerto Backyarda. I'm getting tired of Los Livingroom.

Classified Ad: Single man with toilet paper seeks woman with hand sanitizer for good clean fun.

Day 6 of Homeschooling: My child just said "I hope I don't have the same teacher next year." I'm offended.

(Can you believe the lady talked to her cat!)

[Spieg]

I appreciate that many/most are making a sacrifice by staying at home through this, and need to share your issues... but for those of us that have been deemed "essential" and have to go to work every day, it really makes things worse to hear this kind of stuff pretty much non stop (from my perspective - I'd love to be sitting at home with my dog, deciding what to do with my spare time rather than risking my health every day).

[open_circuit]

It's just gallows humor. Both my wife and I work in "essential" industries as well. Instead of sitting around with my dog deciding what to do, we're standing in for the schools with our two kids while also working regular work weeks remotely. Free time is a thing of the past...

[Jim]

Clients are starting to ask me - do you know of anyone with it? Nope. I ask back - nope comes from them.

Yes, it exists, but just how common is my head scratcher.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year
Not that you ought to take influenza lightly. Flu season in the US, which runs from October through May, claims tens of thousands of lives every year. This season CDC estimates that, as of mid-March, between 29,000 and 59,000 have died due to influenza illnesses. Add to that the misery of hundreds of thousands of flu-related hospitalizations and millions of medical visits for flu symptoms this season.

That above is yearly. For most, in the U.S., we think little of "flu season". If someone is in a high risk group, they might always go for the vaccine and watch what they do - but most in society live as typical.

Now, I'm not looking to start any debate. This bug is an unknown and as such taking measures that can be seen as excessive, in hindsight, were an unknown at the time. I'm hoping this shutdown event will be a one-and-done thing. I imagine that once life gets rolling again a "second wave" will happen and I hope we don't go into lockdown again (I don't imagine any lockdown will be to the same level - hopefully nowhere close).

[open_circuit]

I know multiple people who have had "clinically compatible" diagnosis. Most people still are not able to get the test, so this is as close as it gets. Doctors tell them "you have it, but you aren't bad enough to go to hospital so don't"

[Jackie]

My husband and I are both out of work so we decided to make use of our time (and save some money) by gutting our basement. We have it stripped from floor to ceiling. He's re-routing some plumbing and installing new lighting. The only demolition left is the rock wall behind that hideous old fireplace plus a bathroom that is on the opposite side of that wall. We just got the new concrete drill delivered, so that should be good fun.:cool:

[FINOCJ]

FWIW Jim - students at my high school have lost relatives - mostly grandparents. My friend in C-springs mother and step father are still in IC after 16 days on and off ventilators and oxygen - TBD how it plays out. And while there is some optimism that the early, more dire projections of 200,000+ deaths has now been reduced to 60,000-100,000 deaths - more inline with a bad flu season - its also hard to say 7000+ deaths and counting in NY in a couple weeks is typical flu season. I am not sure how much of the new, more optimistic view is the social action that has been implemented (stay at home etc), or how much is the reality was the initial forecasts were overly pessimistic (that it is better to prepare for the worst, hope for the best). And I am not sure we've seen the worst of it yet here in Colo, although the IHME projections suggest optimism. But even if we see only 60,000 deaths nationwide - then somewhere between 15-20% of all deaths will be from NY alone, which suggests to me there was reason to take action, and while its been a bit too late in NY, maybe not elsewhere. On the flip side, one could also suggest high population density, urban areas are more easily affected, thus those living in other, more rural areas should have more choice in how they chose to respond.

And no matter how it all pans out, we will have some economic consequences for sure (already happening I guess - my friend and colleague of my wife just put his house up for sale - was struggling to make payments the last couple months with work issues (and maybe questionable choices), and now out of work for an additional couple months, in a 'gig' or hourly contract service without UI support (at least not for a while)...How much one is 'enjoying' the new life/work/school at home probably has a lot to do with one's financial stability. Some are working that would prefer not to risk their health, and others would like to work and have been laid-off, and others like me are working from home and finding its way better than going to work...My friend in C-springs (with the hospitalized mother) is 'essential' and interacts with other people - his work has been cut to 36hr/wk (3-12hr days) from 40+ and wouldn't mind working the full amount for paycheck reasons...No good solutions....and as we socially integrate and open up etc, there will be a second wave etc, but hopefully much more manageable with testing and individual quarantine isolation etc...

[Jim]

https://images.i.thechive.com/__ca7481bb3749280d5606703144af430b_width-600.jpeg

https://images.i.thechive.com/__10be31883c33f247681f62235083adc4_width-600.jpeg

[Bob]

The Simpsons do Social Distancing

[JGRubicon]

Eh, for what it's worth, I travelled to Canada through DIA just before mid march (for work). Came back and isolated, not only in my home, but in the guest room away from my SO out of a degree of paranoia my father instilled in me.

Sure enough, 5 days after I got back I got a chest cold, low fever, with headaches and various other things that morphed into pneumonia. Nothing I had was alarmingly bad, but it was a different kind of cold/flu than I've ever had.

I've been clear of symptoms for over 2 weeks now and still stay the heck away from anyone except my SO, when I go out I go to closed golf courses so I don't go near anyone (walking the dog).

No idea what I had, may be no big deal, I wasn't sick enough to get tested, nor did I ask to be, but the poor Dr. doing a virtual visit with me was probably getting hammered at that point.

My company flopped almost immediately due to poor operations that I've been hearing about for months, but they had a scape goat and shut things down. I now get to choose if I take a 50% pay cut or get reduced to 10 hours a week.

I'm lucky in that I saw some things coming so I started beefing up my rainy day fund a while ago, but there are a LOT of people that would just rather be working, I know I would rather be working for a healthy company.

I'm not trying to bring everyone down, just saying there are a lot of people that may have had this new virus, but unless you were in BAD shape, no-one will know one way or another, there just wasn't enough testing to know. And just because there are a lot of people posting humor does not mean that others or they themselves are in a great place right now.

[open_circuit]

Eh, for what it's worth, I travelled to Canada through DIA just before mid march (for work). Came back and isolated, not only in my home, but in the guest room away from my SO out of a degree of paranoia my father instilled in me.

Sure enough, 5 days after I got back I got a chest cold, low fever, with headaches and various other things that morphed into pneumonia. Nothing I had was alarmingly bad, but it was a different kind of cold/flu than I've ever had.

I've been clear of symptoms for over 2 weeks now and still stay the heck away from anyone except my SO, when I go out I go to closed golf courses so I don't go near anyone (walking the dog).

No idea what I had, may be no big deal, I wasn't sick enough to get tested, nor did I ask to be, but the poor Dr. doing a virtual visit with me was probably getting hammered at that point.

My company flopped almost immediately due to poor operations that I've been hearing about for months, but they had a scape goat and shut things down. I now get to choose if I take a 50% pay cut or get reduced to 10 hours a week.

I'm lucky in that I saw some things coming so I started beefing up my rainy day fund a while ago, but there are a LOT of people that would just rather be working, I know I would rather be working for a healthy company.

I'm not trying to bring everyone down, just saying there are a lot of people that may have had this new virus, but unless you were in BAD shape, no-one will know one way or another, there just wasn't enough testing to know. And just because there are a lot of people posting humor does not mean that others or they themselves are in a great place right now.

Sorry to hear about the job and illness. Eventually we (society) will have to figure out a way to widely test if we have all had the virus and if we are to some degree immune so we can gauge risk going forward. Clearly we aren't there yet.

I don't recall what your line of work is, but I know my company is still actively hiring right now. Might be able to point you to some open listings if your skills and experience line up. PM me if you are interested.

[Jim]

SGN Ep3 is up...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg08rJGKjtA

[Blackjeep]

Uncanny resemblance

[Jim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rf5DPgvvVc

[open_circuit]

Clients are starting to ask me - do you know of anyone with it? Nope. I ask back - nope comes from them.

Yes, it exists, but just how common is my head scratcher.

My wife's coworker's husband passed away yesterday from COVID-19 after being diagnosed 2 weeks ago. I don't know how common it is, but it is definitely affecting people we know.

[Jim]

This vid came out yesterday. Listen to a doctor (not a news talking head) talk about things. It looks to be more fact / science than opinion and spin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0wdzR51_tM
28 minutes

[Tom]

.

[Java]

something to laugh at but not in a good way:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/denver-health-executives-get-bonuses-1-week-after-workers-asked-to-take-cuts/ar-BB137oYn?ocid=hplocalnews

[FINOCJ]

not so much to lighten the mood - although I think the data is reason to be cautiously optimistic...from NYT and the first link is more national
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_NN_p_20200424&instance_id=17910&nl=morning-briefing&regi_id=121394746&section=topNews&segment_id=25875&te=1&user_id=775e6249c9fdb9cd713971fba176d6af

this is colorado specific...the flattening of the curve seems pretty apparent....and the recent jump in death rate might be explained by a reporting issue from some counties that got backlogged....
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/colorado-coronavirus-cases.html

[Spieg]

Clients are starting to ask me - do you know of anyone with it? Nope. I ask back - nope comes from them.

Yes, it exists, but just how common is my head scratcher.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year
Not that you ought to take influenza lightly. Flu season in the US, which runs from October through May, claims tens of thousands of lives every year. This season CDC estimates that, as of mid-March, between 29,000 and 59,000 have died due to influenza illnesses. Add to that the misery of hundreds of thousands of flu-related hospitalizations and millions of medical visits for flu symptoms this season.

That above is yearly. For most, in the U.S., we think little of "flu season". If someone is in a high risk group, they might always go for the vaccine and watch what they do - but most in society live as typical.

Now, I'm not looking to start any debate. This bug is an unknown and as such taking measures that can be seen as excessive, in hindsight, were an unknown at the time. I'm hoping this shutdown event will be a one-and-done thing. I imagine that once life gets rolling again a "second wave" will happen and I hope we don't go into lockdown again (I don't imagine any lockdown will be to the same level - hopefully nowhere close).

FWIW - I had a neighbor (3 doors down) who is a nurse and she was exposed at work pretty early and got sick but not hospitalized (she has since recovered). Then an elderly couple across the way from me both tested positive on Easter (currently quarantining at home, but seem to be doing okay). Today I got a call from my mother to let me know my uncle just passed away last night from the virus (he had been in the hospital for surgery to repair a broken leg and somehow contracted the virus while there). So, I'd say you should count yourself lucky if you don't know anyone affected by this.

[Jackie]

I'm very sorry to hear about your uncle, Brian. Stay well.

[Jim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag6CYY0cbFc

[Tom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw5KQMXDiM4

[Java]

BOSS ***** FIGHT CHALLENGE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCO0DXAc0tk

[Jim]

`saw the two ?C130's? early today and the four or five jets this afternoon.

[FINOCJ]

We saw the 5 jets flying straight north - maybe returning home after the front range flyover? Saw one bigger plane that I thought at first might have been a commercial airliner, but it was pretty low and not on a normal DIA flight path, and then saw a helicopter circle around near it (probably news video feed?)...

[Jim]

The below video is 30 minutes long. It runs quick though. Several topics are highlighted below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDSDdwN2Xcg

Dr. Richard Bartlett | ACWT Interview 7.2.20


- From his experience with patients, Dr. Bartlett believes the generic medicine Budesonide, inhaled via a nebulizer, is the answer. Low cost, low risk, quick. The medicine is long used to prevent asthma attacks. "It's a respiratory inflammatory solution for a respiratory inflammatory problem."

- Other high-population-density countries (Taiwan, Japan, Singapore) are using a similar process - with great results - very low death rates


- He comments on the high number mutations the virus has taken (Iceland found 243 mutations as of April)


- He believes a vaccine will not be possible, due to the high mutation rate

- A vaccine would not be needed


- The inhaled Budesonide process is not affected by mutations - it's still effective

- Big pharma won't make any money on Budesonide (it's generic and is in ample supply)

[Java]

Got Phizer #2 today, 14 days til full immunity on May 6. May 6 2020 was my last post on this thread, it's been a F-ed up year and I'm glad it's over. :thumb:

[speedkills]

Congratulations. Kind of a hilarious post following "Doctor Bartlett thinks a vaccine will not be possible" :lmao:

[Jim]

I pray that all will go well for you.

[speedkills]

I'm getting my second vaccination in a week myself, although with so many abstaining I do think mutations are likely to end up being a huge problem.

[Schmitty]

I'll just leave this here... Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22536382/)

[speedkills]

Wait, you're saying we can cure cancer in mice but not SARS?

[Java]

To each his own. Some people have other health concerns or life experiences that make them wary of vaccines. That article and others have been circulating for a while and have given me serious pause; when I was 9 I watched my Dad, ironically a thoracic surgeon, die on a respirator. Believe me I've had my reservations too. However, I first off am pro-vaccine across the board, but moreover I contracted Covid early last year and had a rough time with it to say the least. they treated me for Strep with a Z Pack, it was early and I was initially misdiagnosed, but conveniently that was the treatment at the time for Covid too. I mostly recovered, but for over a year I've had lingering symptoms, specificaly incredible pain in my right hip and lower back to the point that simple hikes like the Quarry at Golden Gate Canyon were so painful I mostly stopped doing them. Uphills were torture, took all the fun out of it. My workouts were terrible as well. No treatments, yoga, exercise etc... worked, meds helped me sleep but I've been sleeping on my couch with my hip-in-the-dip. Three days after my first shot I woke up feeling fantastic and did (in sets) 100 squats, 100 good mornings, and 42 minutes on the eliptical. I am almost pain free and actually going hiking this afternoon.

This lady had a similar experience:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3PYDE-RGDg

[Schmitty]

To each his own.
No reason to get a vaccine for something with a 99% survival rate. Simple as. If you wanna get nuanced about it have the at-risk folks seek treatment/vaccines and leave the rest handle themselves. Personal responsibility is key.

"every man, woman, and child has the right to be left the hell alone." - some guy

[Java]

Your body, your choice. :thumb:

[TDash]

Glad you're doing better now Paul, my mom was hospitalized for over a week after trying to handle it at home for 10 days on her own, it was brutal and took her months to recover before she was cleared to scuba dive again which is her passion. My neighbors brother in law had a bad case early on and was in a coma for 2 weeks and in the hospital for much longer. I also have bunch of friends including my sister who tested positive with not a single symptom, the whole thing is crazy.

Getting my 2nd shot on may 5th and will be happy to moving back towards normal :)

[Tom]

Had a college friend get it and die last month. So totally disagree with some responses here.

[Java]

I posted that i got mine, not that I think anyone else should get it. I think that there are too many people on this planet and everyone should do exactly what they think is smart. :thumb:

[Jim]

Had a college friend get it and die last month.

What's "it" Covid or a vaccine?

I have family (in-law) that is 70/80 yrs old get covid - and easily recovered (a few months back). Family talked that person into getting the vaccine (why? - natural immunity) and the person is now looking at an below-the-knee amputation due to blood clot / dead tissue issues. Side effects / risks are there for the vaccines and yes while issues can be had getting over covid, medicine knows much better how to deal with covid. Me, unless I encounter a reason to take a vaccine (there are sanctity of life issues in a few of them), I'll be in the "control group". Like Paul said - different strokes for different folks.

[Tom]

What's "it" Covid or a vaccine?

I have family (in-law) that is 70/80 yrs old get covid - and easily recovered (a few months back). Family talked that person into getting the vaccine (why? - natural immunity) and the person is now looking at an below-the-knee amputation due to blood clot / dead tissue issues. Side effects / risks are there for the vaccines and yes while issues can be had getting over covid, medicine knows much better how to deal with covid. Me, unless I encounter a reason to take a vaccine (there are sanctity of life issues in a few of them), I'll be in the "control group". Like Paul said - different strokes for different folks.
Covid. And when I said totally disagree, I meant for myself and loved ones.

[derf]

I'm normally a proponent of personal freedom. But when it comes to spreading a preventable disease, your choices can take away other people's freedoms without their consent.

It's the swinging fist analogy. You can swing your fist wherever you want but you have to stop before you hit someone's nose. Spreading disease is hitting other people's noses.

[Jim]

From what I know, the vaccines do nothing to stop a vaccinated person from spreading covid. A vaccinated person can still get and transmit it to another. All the vaccines do is to "protect" a person who contracts covid.

Thus the swinging fist is just that - each person, if they wish to have defenses against any such attack - they need to take their own personal responsibility for their life as they see fit.

If my belief is wrong, kick me an authoritative source - I'm open to discussion.

[derf]

The jury is still out on that.

But that's why people still need to wear masks and socially distance. Those measures are very effective at substantially reducing the transmission rate.

[speedkills]

The intent is certainly to stop the transmission, if it doesn't then we are screwed because we won't be able to stay ahead of the mutations given the number that abstain. The research is still ongoing, they are doing studies right this minute to verify whether or not the vaccines reduce viral shed.

Taking a crack at the swinging fist analogy, say someone does their personal responsibility bit and gets vaccinated, but enough others do not that the virus continues to mutate and a mutated version infects someone who was vaccinated killing them.

My personal guess is this is how it is going to play out but I may be wrong. We are already seeing numbers showing that this is so politicized that many people over 65 are saying they won't get the vaccine then are actually taking it, then telling their friends they won't take it, which is a bit odd to me but if it saves lives then not a ton of harm done, unless someone else they know believes them that they didn't take it and is convinced they shouldn't either.

I'm pretty hard core personal freedom like many here, but have to agree with the swinging fists analogy. Don't tread on me also implies not treading on others but the level of indirection here makes things tricky.

I'm not sure I see the benefit of saying you know someone who recovered easily though. What's the point? Is it to say that those who didn't recover easily deserve it somehow for being weak? Or to tell those who know someone who died that not everyone dies? Given the 99% survival rate for each person that has a family member or friend die 99 of us should statistically be able to jump in and say I know someone who recovered easily, but it feels harsh.

[speedkills]

Also, a quick note, I hope this isn't seen as trying to convince anyone to change their mind about anything over the internet, I'm old enough to know that doesn't really happen. Reading some of the comments it seemed a few were curious how others with an alternative viewpoint my feel and I was trying to share mine, but am not intending to try and convince anyone else to adopt it.

[Jim]

Jim (not admin) speaking:

This thread dances with our no-politics / religion thread. We occasionally have such discussions. They, typically, are constructive and civil. All of us do not agree and yet we meet, shake hands, and enjoy grand scenery and obstacles out on a trail. I see this thread continuing in such constructive and civil fashion.

My point to state the above is that I am curious to know - but won't jump into as it would quite likely step past permissible - would be to have a query for each person that has participated in the thread and ask - what news sources does each get news. My assumption (and what I'd like numbers to affirm or refute) is that the pro vaccine folks consume news from the mainstream news sources and that the no-vaccine-preferring group consumes news not from the mainstream news sources.

Again, I am not entertaining asking - in public or private - but it is a solid question on my mind.


[edit] "no-vaccine-preferring" replaced "independent"

[speedkills]

I'm going to bow out of this one. It can't help but go political as choice of vaccine or no vaccine reflects who you voted for more strongly than facts in any direction.

Also, not sure what use mainstream or not is. FWIW, I don't watch much tv news, but I did during the election splitting my time pretty evenly between the most mainstream (Fox) and the 3rd most mainstream (cnn) by the ratings numbers https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/03/30/fox-news-beats-msnbc-and-cnn-in-ratings-after-january-slump/?sh=2affcf5418ae

It's like how IQ tests correlate more strongly with your written SAT score than they do with other IQ tests. Maybe the test is really just measuring english comprehension skills? If you are seeking a correlation which is a reasonable thing to do I think you would be hard pressed to find a better correlation than "who did you vote for" and as you said that pretty quickly takes this to a place we should not go.

[TDash]

would be to have a query for each person that has participated in the thread and ask - what news sources does each get news. My assumption (and what I'd like numbers to affirm or refute) is that the pro vaccine folks consume news from the mainstream news sources and that the no-vaccine-preferring group consumes news not from the mainstream news sources.


I will just say that this is the absolute strangest topic to ever be politicized in my entire life. Jim don't you think it's odd that you believe news media sources is what influences someone (it's sadly most likely true for a large part of the population) when it comes to a choice being made about someone's body and health? Pretty simple for me how I made my decision, I asked my Dr if I should get the vaccine and they said yes, I trust my Dr's medical opinion and if I didn't I wouldn't go to them.

Why would I care what CNN or Fox or MSNBC or Newsmax or The Blaze or Daily Beast or Epoch or MotherJones have to say about it? I don't watch any mainstream media, I don't even have cable and I don't subscribe to any publications or visit a particular website on a daily or weekly basis to be spoon-fed opinionated journalism. Once you understand all of these companies have an agenda and are motivated by money and how to maximize viewership or clicks to their targeted audiences you realize they are all mostly doing the same thing just different sides of the coin albeit some are more dangerous than others with misinformation. Most people are happy living in their echo chambers even if it makes them angry and feel outrage most of the time. Luckily I am not apart of any social media but the amount of influence and how easily people be manipulated into deep echo chambers is pretty scary, the only thing close to social media I'm involved in is reddit which I find is easier to control. If anyone is interested more on the subject I suggest you check out a documentary called The Social Dilemma (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11464826/) (available on Netflix) which can be eye-opening for many people, even if not for you personally it can be to recognize what is happening with your friends and family as they browse Facebook or other social media apps all day long.

Personally I browse different subs on reddit which allows me to get my "news" from multiple places and always keep in mind what sub I am in and how they lean because it has definite influence and what sources get voted to the top. If the source is not from something like AP I stop for a second, consider the source, sometimes if I care enough about the topic I'll go look up the coverage from an opposing leaning source and make up my mind often times somewhere in the middle or try to cut through both to get to the facts.


Anyway I agree with most who say your body your choice, just keep in mind there could be social consequences for your choices if your choices are putting others in danger. Anytime vaccine topics come up I can't help but be reminded of the show Penn & Teller did on the subject from their show Bullsh*t! (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1685164/) in 2010. Obviously it was not about the COVID vaccine and I understand people's legit concern about COVID vaccine being fast tracked but personally I trust both my Dr and the medical and scientific professionals.

[Tom]

Very well said Scott

[Jim]

I'm normally a proponent of personal freedom. But when it comes to spreading a preventable disease, your choices can take away other people's freedoms without their consent.

It's the swinging fist analogy. You can swing your fist wherever you want but you have to stop before you hit someone's nose. Spreading disease is hitting other people's noses.


From what I know, the vaccines do nothing to stop a vaccinated person from spreading covid. A vaccinated person can still get and transmit it to another. All the vaccines do is to "protect" a person who contracts covid.

Thus the swinging fist is just that - each person, if they wish to have defenses against any such attack - they need to take their own personal responsibility for their life as they see fit.

If my belief is wrong, kick me an authoritative source - I'm open to discussion.


The jury is still out on that.

The jury has not come in to say a vaccinated person can't transmit the virus to another.

Here's an authoritative source:
Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Emergency Use Authorization Review Memorandum
Downloadable at FDA.gov
https://www.fda.gov/media/144416/download
Screen snip, annotated by me, is available on page 51 of the PDF.

With additional time, testing, and documentation, it could be found that vaccinated people do not (or with some percentage of possibility do not) transmit SARS-CoV-2 to another person. When an authoritative report comes out to that statement, please post the information. Until then - if vaccinated people think they're keeping other persons safe - it is not proven to be as such (I have not seen proof of it).

[Java]

The unemployed guy who said that wearing a mask is patriotic got the virus, got the vaccine and says others should too; especially those who don't want it, and says it on FOX:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F8mCijMRkc

[Jim]

Isn't this more like "a little something to lighten your day" - LOL

https://thechive.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/wuzb68c3ubv61.jpeg

[Tom]

.

[derf]

:lmao:

[Jim]

Vaccine chuckles...

A TV news person had a slip-of-the-lip:

(listen to the audio in the vid)

https://gab.com/PGTips5NZ/posts/106125279346604532

[Trevor?]

When I first read this headline I couldn't help but think, "I don't think that's how you're supposed to administer vaccines."

"Wildfire-fighting Global SuperTanker plane may be sold for COVID-19 response"

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/04/27/wildfire-fighting-global-supertanker-plane-may-covid-19-response/

[Jim]

Curious that the purpose-modified plane might not stay in use as desired. Perhaps this is the company 'sabre rattling' to stir interest and keep contracts flowing?

After investing tens of millions into upgrading the Global SuperTanker and its technology, the revenue coming mostly from contracts with the U.S. government and California did not produce enough profit for the company to continue the funding the tanker, said Roger Miller, managing director at Alterna Capital Partners LLC, the investment company that owns the plane.

[Maverick1872]

From what I know, the vaccines do nothing to stop a vaccinated person from spreading covid. A vaccinated person can still get and transmit it to another. All the vaccines do is to "protect" a person who contracts covid.

Thus the swinging fist is just that - each person, if they wish to have defenses against any such attack - they need to take their own personal responsibility for their life as they see fit.

If my belief is wrong, kick me an authoritative source - I'm open to discussion.

I wanted to chime in here. Full disclosure; I am fully vaccinated. Additionally I am pro COVID-19 vaccination (surprising I know :lmao:), and as such these comments/opinions will come across in a way to attempt to convince others to also become vaccinated. I don't think any of my statements are political in nature (they are not intended to be) beyond the fact that this topic is widely politicized. I think the following sources are a worthwhile read either way, but I will be pulling snippets out of them to give a little weight to my own opinions. I highly suggest you read the sources yourself, or at least the relevant areas I reference, and formulate your own opinion.


Preliminary data from Israel suggest that people vaccinated with Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine who develop COVID-19 have a four-fold lower viral load than unvaccinated people. This observation may indicate reduced transmissibility, as viral load has been identified as a key driver of transmission. - Source 1 (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html) Source 2 (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.06.21251283v1.full.pdf)

As it currently stands this is initial data, and by no means to be taken as gospel. It does show very good indications though that one can expect transmission to be reduced just from having a lower concentration of the virus when infected. The less infection that your body is holding onto means less chance of transmission of the virus containing a large enough concentration to infect others.


The latest analysis from the MoH proves that two weeks after the second vaccine dose protection is even stronger – vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% in preventing symptomatic disease, severe/critical disease and death. - Source (https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/real-world-evidence-confirms-high-effectiveness-pfizer)

Subsequently one also must factor in the significant reduction in symptomatic cases that the vaccines have shown to result in. Even if a vaccine were to not prevent one from contracting COVID-19, but it did prevent them from becoming symptomatic; that would have major impacts on the transmission of the virus alone. As we all know transmission of the virus is done by "respiratory droplets". These droplets are naturally produced and "spread" during behavior such talking and breathing; but significantly more so when one coughs or sneezes. Knowing this, it's easy to make the correlation that individuals that are not symptomatic are significantly less likely to spread the virus; therefore reducing transmission rates.


Substantial reductions in SARS-CoV-2 infections (both symptomatic and asymptomatic) will have the positive benefit of helping to reduce overall levels of disease, and therefore, transmission in the United States. - Source (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html)

I feel like the above is fairly self explanatory. It is notable that it is only applicable if a large enough portion of the population were to become vaccinated. If for instance, the majority do not become vaccinated then vaccines can only really be looked at as "protecting yourself". Whereas the more people that become vaccinated, the more the vaccine can be considered "protecting others".

All of this being said, I look forward to hearing what opinions y'all have on this.

- Jonathon

[RockyMtRebel]

I'm still undecided...... both of my kids have gotten both shots and are fine. My brother got his second shot yesterday. I'm planning on getting it but just keep putting it off........ I think I'm more afraid of the social stigma of being "un-vaccinated" and that's not a good reason (peer-pressure) to get it. I think a LOT of people that say they are vaccinated, really aren't. It's a very interesting topic for sure

[Maverick1872]

I'm still undecided...... both of my kids have gotten both shots and are fine. My brother got his second shot yesterday. I'm planning on getting it but just keep putting it off........ I think I'm more afraid of the social stigma of being "un-vaccinated" and that's not a good reason (peer-pressure) to get it. I think a LOT of people that say they are vaccinated, really aren't. It's a very interesting topic for sure


I think you will find that to be the case more and more now that the CDC has put out guidelines (incentives to get vaccinated) for those who are vaccinated. At the end of the day we can't do anything more than take people at their word. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TDash]

I think a LOT of people that say they are vaccinated, really aren't.

I find this very interesting because I had been reading the exact opposite about people who were afraid to admit they got the vaccines.. especially early on because they would be labeled line jumpers and that it could expose either lying about what made them eligible or would find it intrusive when having to justify their eligibility.

Do you think random every day people are lying about being vaccinated while at the same time the reports of how many vaccines have been given are being fabricated? According to the CDC 46.2% of CO have had at least one shot which is about 2.66M people, if these numbers are even remotely accurate I'm just wondering what makes you think "a LOT" of people are lying? Perhaps my anecdotal evidence is just that but in my mostly conservative County my wife has had multiple friends tell her that they had been vaccinated but not to tell anyone because they didn't want to hear any backlash from people in their Church-oriented social groups.

[RockyMtRebel]

I find this very interesting because I had been reading the exact opposite about people who were afraid to admit they got the vaccines.. especially early on because they would be labeled line jumpers and that it could expose either lying about what made them eligible or would find it intrusive when having to justify their eligibility.

Do you think random every day people are lying about being vaccinated while at the same time the reports of how many vaccines have been given are being fabricated? According to the CDC 46.2% of CO have had at least one shot which is about 2.66M people, if these numbers are even remotely accurate I'm just wondering what makes you think "a LOT" of people are lying? Perhaps my anecdotal evidence is just that but in my mostly conservative County my wife has had multiple friends tell her that they had been vaccinated but not to tell anyone because they didn't want to hear any backlash from people in their Church-oriented social groups.

Hahaha, you have a great point Scott! It depends on your area & the demographics. Conservatives might be afraid to admit to vaccines, where Liberals might be afraid to admit not being vaccinated. My demographic is primarily liberal so that's why I might be afraid to admit I am not vaccinated (which is the case). But you are totally right! My mom is a big time "church lady" and she is super anti-vaccination and sends me conspiracy videos about how the vaccine is going to kill everyone... lol

[TDash]

lol everyone is a bunch of liars! :D

[derf]

We're still a bit short of 1/3 of Americans being fully vaccinated. But we have crossed the 100 million mark. At this point any short term problems with the vaccine should have shown up. But beyond a handful of blood clots, as well as a few instances of reactions in a very small percentage of the population that are similar to any vaccine, I'm not seeing much.

https://apnews.com/article/ny-state-wire-coronavirus-health-1b7dd49a70a5232dca0cf2431d4da7b3

[4runner.Ric]

I refuse, to let them jab me.... When the manufacter and the people giving the shots have ZERO accountablilty, that right there, should be all you need to know.

[4runner.Ric]

Let me say first, that I dont believe half of what I read online anymore but found this insteresting: https://nojabforme.info/ (https://nojabforme.info/)

[Bob]

I refuse, to let them jab me.... When the manufacter and the people giving the shots have ZERO accountablilty, that right there, should be all you need to know.

Just FYI,

Vaccine manufacturers have been greatly shielded from liability since around 1988 by federal law, and a government fund was set up to compensate those severely injured by a vaccine, which is rare (not easy to meet conditions and prove, though).

A different law since 2010 (PREP act) allows the HHS secretary to declare an emergency and almost completely shield the emergency manufacture of vaccines or other medical products to meet the emergency, such as Covid. If that hadn’t been done, we would be waiting many years for a vaccine to wind its way through the standard development and approval process.

Responding to emergencies requires at least a partial liability shield, and Good Samaritan laws are an example. In China they didn’t have a Good Samaritan law until 2017 so people usually didn’t come to the aid of accident victims because it was common to be sued and the courts frequently awarded damages. When I was there on business years ago my group was warned not to try to help anyone in need for this reason.

[speedkills]

I had a feeling that link was mostly bullshit, but then I stopped reading when it said 99.9% survival rate. If the logic is why take a vaccine if the survival rate is 99.9%, does that mean that if someone tells you the truth that it's <99% you would change your mind? No, of course not, facts are only used to convince others, not to alter our own beliefs.

Saying it has a 99.9% survival rate is an outright lie, check one of any respected sources and you will see it's well over 1% mortality rate. Or just choose the geocities webpage that says what you want to hear. But it's not just believing bullshit, by linking it here you spread it. I had intended to bow out of this thread but just wanted to jump in so nobody else is fooled by this, this is about the level of "we're going to be under martial law soon, I know because my neighbor is ex-military and can be relied on" rumor mongoring. Don't believe me, just do like the world's laziest google search, covid mortality rate if you want real numbers.

https://i.imgur.com/Oy5XNxW.jpg

[speedkills]

Or, even better, instead of getting medical advice from the someone you know who likes to drive trucks offroad, maybe ask your doctor as Scott advised. There is no way in hell your doctor will tell you it has a 99.9% survival rate.

[speedkills]

4runner.Ric, I want to believe you have no reason to try and make fellow members of your club less safe, so maybe you have just been hoodwinked by people who have managed to convince you that the mortality rate is .1% (which is a lie) and that the chance of dying from the vaccine is >.1% (also a lie) so by sharing this info you are making your fellow members safer.

If that's the case, consider your sources suspect, for anyone who tells you this is just like the flu think back to flu season every year, do you ever remember the crematoriums being so busy that people have literally gone medieval and started burning bodies in pyres to keep them from rotting?

This is not just like the flu.

Choose to take the vaccine or not, but why try to convince anyone this has a 99.9% survival rate? Do you think we are all blind? Are you? I don't understand how you could see so many dead and say yep, I read on a hokey website someone with one html class put up last week that it's pretty much like the flu. Has every government in the world started vaccinating people and shutting down because of something that is the same survival rate as the flu? Or is the same hidden hand of the secret world government that really controls all of their governments and their versions of the FDA telling them all to do the same thing? If you have some ability to read scientific papers yourself I would think you would have to know the link you sent is full of falsehoods. If you have no abilities in this regard, then I can't understand why you would add more noise to the room and try to sway others. What is the motivation in sharing that link, help me understand.

If one of our members falls ill or dies and was convinced by your link that they were safer without the vaccine, will you feel any responsibility or it is all on them as they should have known better than to trust you?

I apologize is I sound furious, frankly I am as I have friends here and in such a dangerous time someone is actively trying to cloud an issue where they have no expertise. Scott already said "ask your doctor", great advice, then you come in here and say "but first, read this", how could that possibly help?

https://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0//attachment/2021/2021-04-16/0248a9ea-2b1d-4eb6-9e32-c1639438d31c.jpeg

[Java]

What if it is true that there is a 99% survival rate... What other activities with a 99% survival rating would you participate in? How about 98%? That's worse odds than Shirley Jackson's Lottery with a similar outcome, but you get to play a couple of times each day. Who would fly 99% Airlines, or drive a trail with a 99% survival rating? If I was in a room with 99 other people and a voice came over the loudspeaker saying that one of us was going to get shot dead, another one or so just wounded but would survive, I would leave that room.

[Jim]

For the data minded:

VAERS - the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System

Established in 1990, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a national early warning system to detect possible safety problems in U.S.-licensed vaccines. VAERS is co-managed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). VAERS accepts and analyzes reports of adverse events (possible side effects) after a person has received a vaccination. Anyone can report an adverse event to VAERS. Healthcare professionals are required to report certain adverse events and vaccine manufacturers are required to report all adverse events that come to their attention.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/

One might consider this an authoritative source.

Unfortunately, full U.S. details don't seem to be readily available as the system has a 10,000 row limit per report. When I select all COVID vaccines, United States & Territories, 2020 & 2021 dates, Death - the system reports 17,321 rows. This does not mean 17,321 people have died as some entries could refer to more than one person / event. But, going with death - we humans only have one death event per person.

Removing the Death selection and adding Permanent Disability there are 13,041 rows. Switching to Life Threatening 21,294 rows are reported.

Constricting the report to only the state of Colorado and moving back to Death, the report is below the 10,000 limit and a file can be downloaded (checkbox at the end). In the first selection criteria item is a checkbox for "Adverse Event Description". This is perhaps the main item to read - what the person or doctor experienced / reported.

[Report data requested May 2021]

[speedkills]

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-deaths/fact-check-vaers-data-does-not-prove-thousands-died-from-receiving-covid-19-vaccines-idUSL1N2LV0NY

[speedkills]

Agreed, facts are useful, like this CDC analysis stating that the numbers from VAERS amount to 0.0017% mortality rate after taking the vaccine, vs >1% after getting covid without the vaccine. Very useful, thanks for pointing that out Jim. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

[speedkills]

Based on Jim's post I found this CDC slidedeck on the vaers data analysis. They pulled coroner reports on deaths to find causes and did a great analysis breaking it down for those that want more detail. One important point they make is that 22% of people in long term care facilities die every year, meaning about 2% of people in those homes die every month on average just because it was their time, so if you vaccinate them all, you would expect 2% to die because they were in a home meant to care for them at the end of their lives and it has nothing to do with the vaccine at all, yet their name will be on the vaers list.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-01/06-COVID-Shimabukuro.pdf

[4runner.Ric]

I had a feeling that link was mostly bullshit, but then I stopped reading when it said 99.9% survival rate. If the logic is why take a vaccine if the survival rate is 99.9%, does that mean that if someone tells you the truth that it's <99% you would change your mind? No, of course not, facts are only used to convince others, not to alter our own beliefs.

Saying it has a 99.9% survival rate is an outright lie, check one of any respected sources and you will see it's well over 1% mortality rate. Or just choose the geocities webpage that says what you want to hear. But it's not just believing bullshit, by linking it here you spread it. I had intended to bow out of this thread but just wanted to jump in so nobody else is fooled by this, this is about the level of "we're going to be under martial law soon, I know because my neighbor is ex-military and can be relied on" rumor mongoring. Don't believe me, just do like the world's laziest google search, covid mortality rate if you want real numbers.

https://i.imgur.com/Oy5XNxW.jpg
more mainstream media "facts" lol

[4runner.Ric]

Agreed, facts are useful, like this CDC analysis stating that the numbers from VAERS amount to 0.0017% mortality rate after taking the vaccine, vs >1% after getting covid without the vaccine. Very useful, thanks for pointing that out Jim. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

come on, the CDC is just another government agency......... How many time already, has the CDC changed what they said? has anyone noticed that the flu, has all but disappeared?? and replaced with something with the same symtoms? LOL If someone wants to get the jab, more power to them, if you dont, more power to you.. Im over all these "scare tactics" BS and lies.

[Tom]

come on, the CDC is just another government agency......... How many time already, has the CDC changed what they said? has anyone noticed that the flu, has all but disappeared?? and replaced with something with the same symtoms? LOL If someone wants to get the jab, more power to them, if you dont, more power to you.. Im over all these "scare tactics" BS and lies.
Until a friend or god forbid a family member dies while you watch from non flu like symptoms.

[speedkills]

I have totally noticed the flu has all but disappeared since COVID has come in. Also, when the wolves come in the rabbits seem to go away, and when the weeds come in my grass disappears. No idea what to make of it though. Probably the guvment.

[Jim]

1) I'm sorry to Tom for the loss of your friend. In retrospect, it was crass of me to ask the question (only) (what was the cause) w/o offering the courtesy. The question was true, though I should have been more wholesome and polite in my post.


2) Extended family amputation issue is confirmed - below the knee amputation - likely to happen Wed or Thurs. Two points 1) is it CONCLUSIVE it is due to the vaccine - possibly not, thus it'll likely not be put down as such. Does family quite reasonably feel it IS due to the vaccine, soundly, yes. 2) Family (medically trained) spoke with a classmate who is currently working in the field - the comment came back - there are MANY amputations happening, caused by blood clots. Will those be listed as conclusive due to one of the current vaccines - who knows.

Bottom line, in my posts, I wish to present information that is "not-mainstream" of events that are happening. I simply wish to at least crack an eyelid of any who might be firmly in one camp to consider other issues. Discussion, two way, can be fruitful. Am I saying you're wrong (said to no member in particular), no. Am I saying I'm right - certainly not (and I trust my prior posts fall under this umbrella - call me out if otherwise).

Do I believe main stream media is slanted (pro vaccine / quashing alternative information), yes. Is all alternative information valid - no. Is all main-stream information valid - no. In all cases we need to filter to what is credible.

In all, pro/con, the big ball is a numbers issue - odds. What are the odds of being infected? What are the odds of having issues with a vaccine? Each of us has to make that decision, personally.


3) Who knows if I'll make another post in the thread - I'm heading into no-cell-zone land. I trust posts will stay civil - as they have been (mostly). I will drop this thought into the thread (and if anyone wishes to mull the topic - start a new thread [possibly in Members Only] or PM the Forum Admin)... Should the Forum Admin remove (now and in the future) posts / threads that dance on the no-politics/religion theme - controversial threads? No member (or un-registered visitor) has sent a message to me (ID Jim or Forum Admin) that this (or other recent) posts/threads should be reviewed. I've considered creating a poll to have the wider audience give input on the thought.

My back forth (personally) is that getting to know each other more completely can be positive. A flip side is that while some similarities are then known some differences are also known. Is the more complete relationship ending up as burdensome baggage when shaking hands and chatting at a trail run? I imagine we'll have views spanning the spectrum on this last point - though it ties right in with should potentially controversial discussions be allowed?

g'night, sleep-tight.

[speedkills]

Damn. I'm really sorry to hear that Jim. That is going to be a rough thing to recover from, I wish them and you strength to battle through it.

[Jim]

Damn. I'm really sorry to hear that Jim. That is going to be a rough thing to recover from, I wish them and you strength to battle through it.

Thanks. A M-I-L of family. High 70's / mid 80's is my guess as to age. Getting used to a prosthetic later in life (though fortunately, lower leg, which I'd think/hope would be easier to deal with). Ranch house though washer/dryer are in the basement - living alone. Unknown how long they'll be able to stay home. Concerns of where to live likely has not been discussed. Change - and this list of things that need to change is going to be decently sized and immediate. Family (me included) are available and willing to help. Family is a fantastic resource to have at hand.

[Java]

Sorry about your MIL, that is terrible. Prayers for a speedy recovery and an easy transition.

[TDash]

Do you think we are all blind? Are you? I don't understand how you could see so many dead and say yep, I read on a hokey website someone with one html class put up last week that it's pretty much like the flu. Has every government in the world started vaccinating people and shutting down because of something that is the same survival rate as the flu? Or is the same hidden hand of the secret world government that really controls all of their governments and their versions of the FDA telling them all to do the same thing?

I have learned over the past year, some people live in very small worlds compared to others. I guess if it's not directly in your face and you and your family or friends haven't been directly negatively impacted or seen people die, it's easy to ignore and chalk up to some kind of conspiracy propaganda, I am not so fortunate.

[RockyMtRebel]

I think some people also just blindly follow what they're told they should believe.... be it political or religious, or maybe socially driven by family and friends to believe something so obviously stupid... I'm not smart enough to think "I know the truth" but I am smart enough to think "you don't know it either";-)

[TDash]

I'm not smart enough to think "I know the truth" but I am smart enough to think "you don't know it either";-)

i love this and wish everyone could adhere to it more often myself certainly included

[derf]

I think some people also just blindly follow what they're told they should believe.... be it political or religious, or maybe socially driven by family and friends to believe something so obviously stupid... I'm not smart enough to think "I know the truth" but I am smart enough to think "you don't know it either";-)

That tends to cut both ways and more, unfortunately. :frown:

There's way too many groups of all kinds telling everyone what they want to hear and way too many people of all kinds blindly following their chosen propaganda. And yes, I am just as guilty as everyone else.

[Java]

(https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210428/pfizer-developing-pill-to-treat-covid-19-symptoms)https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210428/pfizer-developing-pill-to-treat-covid-19-symptoms

[4runner.Ric]

Until a friend or god forbid a family member dies while you watch from non flu like symptoms.
we ALL will die, that is a fact.... you didnt answer my questions "How many time already, has the CDC changed what they said? has anyone noticed that the flu, has all but disappeared?? and replaced with something with the same symtoms?"

[4runner.Ric]

anyone remember the two guys racing bikes in Florida doing about 125 mph, crashed and one died on scene?? his death was ruled "covid" Are the death numbers true? the number of people cieing from the flu this year has pretty much at zero, strange.

[TDash]

anyone remember the two guys racing bikes in Florida doing about 125 mph, crashed and one died on scene?? his death was ruled "covid"

This past July, Fox 35 Orlando reported that "a person who died in a motorcycle accident was added to Florida’s COVID-19 death count." In an updated story, they say their investigation led to another investigation, and that the death was ultimately removed from the county's COVID-19 death totals.

Verify researchers spoke on the phone with a spokesperson for the Florida Department of Health in Orange County.

They told us the death was initially recorded as a COVID-19 death after the victim tested positive. After the medical examiner and epidemiologist reviewed the death, they say they removed it from the COVID fatality list.

Source: https://www.wusa9.com/mobile/article/news/verify/covid-deaths-car-crash-comorbidities-coronavirus-death-total-counts-john-hopkins-study/65-e3842ed2-f753-4a15-8b97-c2ae75c2b2ce


How many time already, has the CDC changed what they said?

That's how science works, when new evidence is discovered or new information is brought to light new determinations are made. This is the ability to adapt and learn with the information available at the time.



has anyone noticed that the flu, has all but disappeared?? and replaced with something with the same symtoms?"

Shane sarcastically answered this already but I guess you didn't catch it. You do understand that social distancing, a global pandemic lockdown and people wearing masks to reduce the spread of coronavirus would also all contribute to reducing the spread of other diseases, colds, viruses? Not to mention how much more people were sanitizing their hands and surfaces, or children not going to schools, or people not going to workplaces etc etc etc.




Just please stop dude, this isn't Facebook or parler. It's not helping anyone.

[Jackie]

I lost a cousin to Covid. I have a 14 yr- old niece who was a normal, healthy girl who now has a heart condition thanks to Covid. They say she's a "long hauler". I work with a couple people who spent more than a month on ventilators. They are only in their 20's and 30's. Many others who were infected took months before they felt "well" again.

My family and I are now fully vaccinated but will continue to wear masks in public places because quite frankly, we don't trust "the honor system". The masks helped keep the flu and other illnesses from infecting us all of this past year. That's not rocket science. Covid may have the same symptoms as the flu, but it is not it is not the flu. Deniers can deny all they want if it makes them feel better but I do believe they are contributing to the problem in a major way.

Science. Learn something new today.

[goSlo]

I came here for something to lighten my day.

Maybe this will lighten yours.
51836

Here's a quick way to lose your job...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MN1vXO5JeI

[Jim]

I found it curious that "other" treatment and preventative options (some with a long history of being safe) have gone un-promoted to general society. It seems I'm not the only one:

www.lifesitenews.com/news/tens-of-thousands-of-lives-could-have-been-saved-if-research-on-covid-treatments-hadnt-been-suppressed-doctors-and-economists-say (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/tens-of-thousands-of-lives-could-have-been-saved-if-research-on-covid-treatments-hadnt-been-suppressed-doctors-and-economists-say)

Tens of thousands of lives could have been saved if research on COVID treatments hadn’t been suppressed, doctors and economists say

The government’s 'near complete' lack of guidance and research on treatment options — 'apart from vaccines' — is 'unconscionable,' said University of Wisconsin critical care specialist Dr. Pierre Kory.

Mon May 17, 2021 - 8:04 am ES

[derf]

Consider the source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LifeSiteNews

LifeSiteNews is a Canadian far-right anti-abortion advocacy and news publication. A Catholic publication, many of its articles are faith-related. LifeSiteNews has published misleading information and conspiracy theories, and in 2021 was banned from some social media platforms for spreading COVID-19 misinformation

[Jim]

And one could readily counter the bias that Wikipedia promotes...

It also looks to be a re-post from ChildrensHeathDefense.org - are they fitting to the likes of Wikipedia's bias?
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/tens-of-thousands-lives-could-have-been-saved-covid-treatments/

The article contains references to several persons in the medical field - not simply an opinion piece. Read and decide on the merits of the article, not on the bias of an outside organization.

[derf]

Go into it with open eyes either way.

"It does no good to always question everything if you reject the answers you don't like."

[RockyMtRebel]

A friend of ours and her husband got Covid 6-8 months ago. They were sick but nothing too bad.... however, they both completely lost their sense of taste and smell and the husband still hasn't got it back. He's super depressed too because he's in the food business and the lasting effects of Covid are strong and undeniable. Strange times we live in.....