ToyTec 3" FJ Lift

[Brody]

This is primarily for the sensitive gentleman at ToyTec who took offense at Stephanie's article on the FJ lift that we put in with Tye's help. He took offense at my comments on the 'ease of install' and 'excellent' (choke) directions, too.Turns out that he requested that Stephanie pull her post off the FJ forum as it might 'scare' people into not buying his products.

Well, I'll say again, it took 3 people(and two dogs) to figure out the directions and what they meant. Once that was worked out, the rest of the install went fine. My comments were not on your product, but merely on your directions, especially for a first time FJ/Toytec installer. No need to be so sensitive. These were meant as 'suggestions'..

Oh, BTW, everyone commented on how nice it would have been to have actual pictures on the instructions. Verbal descriptions work fine if you have done a few ToyTec FJ installs and are very familiar with FJs, I am sure, and you really aren't saving any money by not including them, especially in these days of photobucket, computers, and digital pictures.

And one other thing: not everyone has a cool shop with lifts and hoists. So...surprise, surprise, many people work on rigs in their very own garages, attached or not. News to you, I am sure....Wish I was as cool and groovy as you sound like you are....

As to my abilities as far as lifts go, I have done lifts on Toyotas, straight axle and IFS, Fords, again IFS and straight axle, Chevys, etc. These included Pro Comp, Super Lift, and quite a few others. None of them went as smoothly as the directions implied, yours included. On some of them, other modifications were needed to get them to fit as bolt holes were in the wrong place, etc. I was trying to help a friend save some bucks so that she could spend the money she saved elsewhere. Lifts aren't easy, period. Anything that helps, including comprehensive, well thought out and presented instructions, help. You shouldn't have to source two or three other (independent) articles to install a lift as we ended up doing.

Overall, not a bad lift, it does what it is advertised to do, the instructions could be better, and, get this....you can do it in a regular garage just like most of the lifts for all the other rigs out there on the road...

[Chris]

Good post, it seems many vendors forget what working in a home garage is like and have done so many installs of their own product that they write cr*ppy install directions. I took issue with my suspension vendor when he said "just swap your rear springs" like it was something I could do in 10 minutes.

The only way to keep vendors aware is to openly comment so they improve their instructions, product and attitude. ;)

[Pathrat]

Well said, both of you.

I think it is unrealistic for vendors to assume that the buyer is going to take the product to "an authorized dealer" to do the install. It seems to me that a fair amount of people who modify their vehicles do their own :wrench: and bolting on of parts. If a person has the time and knowlegde, after they have saved money for the parts, why would they not do it themselves?

[Brody]

Good post, it seems many vendors forget what working in a home garage is like and have done so many installs of their own product that they write cr*ppy install directions. I took issue with my suspension vendor when he said "just swap your rear springs" like it was something I could do in 10 minutes.

The only way to keep vendors aware is to openly comment so they improve their instructions, product and attitude. ;)

Yo ToyTec

Read this 10 times or so and repeat after me "Take your customers' comments into consideration and heed their advice. Afterall, they are the ones who are the end user of your products and their 'word of mouth' is cheaper (and in many cases, better) than any other advertising."

After all, you are in a very competive market and aren't the only 'kids on the block' as far as lifts go, nor are yours better or worse than anyone elses'.

[RockyMtnHigh]

You guys got instructions? :lol:

Let me start by saying, Doug at Toytec is good people of the times I have dealt with him he has been more than helpful, I wear a big Toytec sticker on the back of my rig because of his customer service since installing my last lift back in May.
I have done both of my lifts so far in my garage the OME 883s and 884s with help of experienced person and soon will be bumping the fronts up to 885s. On the 883 install I copied these install directions (http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/how-technical-articles/40116-ome-lift-installation-detailed-pics.html) and did it, I had bought them from someone on the blue room who already had the coils mounted on the shocks so I didn't have to mess with compressing the springs. On the 884s I had help of a good friend of mine who had done it a few times before.

I see both points of view here, unless you're in tune with blue room you're not going to know where the instructions are at and much less know if there is a FJC magazine and if there was even an article on installing it. I have run into people on the trails and on the street that had no clue there was an FJC forum.

I can also see Doug's concern with safety, the only part that I didn't understand that you guys did was the compression during the mounting of the coils and shocks back onto the rig, that perhaps is his concern, I don't know. Does it mean it was wrong, you got me there again, but it did work.

What I do know is some people forget what it was like doing something for the first time and not really having something to reference as a first timer with solid instruction on how to do it step by step, I haven't seen Toytec's instructions so I can't say how detailed they are, but if an experience person had problems with them then the average Joe is surely going to. I do agree, he needs to have the instructions printed from the article and included in every box, you can't assume everyone knows everything that's on the blue room, I don't think it was done intentially though, like I said he seems like a good guy.

[Brody]

You are right. I had absolutely no idea that there was a 'blue room' nor that there was an FJ magazine. The other instructions that I managed to find were from googling 'ToyTec FJ 3" lift', then 'ToyTec 3" lift'. Niether of which allowed me to enlarge their photos to the point where they would do some good. I managed to also find instructions for doing a 3" ToyTec lift on a Taco or Tundra in Toyota Owner's Magazine, but they only helped a bit.

The spring compressors that I had wouldn't allow me to get 2 of them on and then stuff the unit into the a-frame. I also wasn't able to get the whole assembly through and then put the compressors on the spring. Still don't know if that was me or not, but ended up going with the easiest way which worked out well (and safely enough) on both sides. Bottom line-it works on the rig and on the trail. And, like I said, once we got to the point where we managed to figure out what the instructions did and did not mean, the other side took about 30 minutes. The back was a cakewalk...

Not dissing homey at ToyTec, just telling him not to be soooooooo SENSITIVE, which obviously I am not. Nor do I mind upsetting anyone if that is what it takes to open up their eyeballs when I am trying to make a point...

[RockyMtnHigh]

Bottom line-it works on the rig and on the trail.


Yep, that's it! It worked and it's on the trail and it was done safely. There's always more than one way to skin a cat, doesn't mean one is more wrong/right than the other. :thunb:

[Ric]

to be honest, if you need instructions on how to replace a shock or spring, or if you need pictures cause you cant read, then maybe you shouldnt be trying to install a lift kit.
Yes I did mine, in my garage, with basic tools, the whole lift, diff drop kit, ext. brake lines, panhard drop kit, it was pretty straight forward IMO.
Im not trying to hurt anyones feeling, just being honest, but some things are better left for others to do.

[Pathrat]

You guys got instructions? :lol:

Let me start by saying, Doug at Toytec is good people of the times I have dealt with him he has been more than helpful, I wear a big Toytec sticker on the back of my rig because of his customer service since installing my last lift back in May.

.

RMC, I have a Toytec decal on my FJC, along with a few other vendors that have done well in the area of customer service and product offered. This was not my first buy from Doug. The first PM I got from him on the FJForum was to tell me thanks for the write up and pictures. The second was asking me to take that down and just who the hell is this Brody and what was he doing. On the public side of the Forum, he said a few things that he did not have the background to say, namely that my installer was not well versed in suspensions or Toyotas. I can understand not wanting to make it appear that his product takes more than two hours to install, I can understand safety concerns, but when a buyer posts up in a public forum that your product works just like it is advertised to work, a bit of of tact in not jumping on the friends you trust with your rig is needed.

[Pathrat]

You are right. I had absolutely no idea that there was a 'blue room' nor that there was an FJ magazine. .


Sorry Brody, neither did I. :o I think I check in on the FJForum once or twice month, and I did not see the install article. Otherwise, I would have brought it to you.

[RockyMtnHigh]

to be honest, if you need instructions on how to replace a shock or spring, or if you need pictures cause you cant read, then maybe you shouldnt be trying to install a lift kit.


I totally disagree with this, even a new professional mechanic is given some type of visual reference when being shown how to do something for the first time. I have been in my industry for going on 13 years now and work with guys that have been doing it 30+ years and we still need to refer to drawings and schematics when doing simple card change outs or splicing optical or wire lines.

If safety is a concern which is where Doug was going with his comments on blue and feels there's only one safe way to do it, then he should supply a set with pictures or at least the link to the mag article, pictures allow for there not to be an interpretation of the words that are printed.

As much as I like Doug, I am trying not to be biased here, nothing about my comments I hope anyone including Doug takes offense to. Before this I was a happy camper, no instructions no big deal is what I was thinking, looking at this now I can see the peoples point of view on this board too, because like I said not everyone is in tune with FJ or Toyota community and some tend to just focus on the bigger picture, the 4x4 community.

Oh by the way, Brody (I think it's your rig) that thing is wicked, love the exo on it!

[Brody]

Yep, the black rig is mine.

Yep, I can read.

Yep, I like to both read instructions and refer to pictures if the instructions are unclear.

Yep, I have worked on cars and other rolling crap since I was 16, a few years ago.

[Ric]

I totally disagree with this, even a new professional mechanic is given some type of visual reference when being shown how to do something for the first time. I have been in my industry for going on 13 years now and work with guys that have been doing it 30+ years and we still need to refer to drawings and schematics when doing simple card change outs or splicing optical or wire lines.

If safety is a concern which is where Doug was going with his comments on blue and feels there's only one safe way to do it, then he should supply a set with pictures or at least the link to the mag article, pictures allow for there not to be an interpretation of the words that are printed.

As much as I like Doug, I am trying not to be biased here, nothing about my comments I hope anyone including Doug takes offense to. Before this I was a happy camper, no instructions no big deal is what I was thinking, looking at this now I can see the peoples point of view on this board too, because like I said not everyone is in tune with FJ or Toyota community and some tend to just focus on the bigger picture, the 4x4 community.

Oh by the way, Brody (I think it's your rig) that thing is wicked, love the exo on it!

well we are talking a lift kit, not anything electrical, like I said, and my point still stands, "some things should be left to others"
I dont know what people are referring to when they say "blue room" on the FJ forums, as I dont visit that forum much, just to many people whinning and complaining, lol


Yep, the black rig is mine.

Yep, I can read.

Yep, I like to both read instructions and refer to pictures if the instructions are unclear.

Yep, I have worked on cars and other rolling crap since I was 16, a few years ago.
woow that much experiance ?
Then you should have had NO problems installing a lift kit.. its not like your trying to re-wire anything from scratch.
I dont have near that experiance working on cars, I had ZERO issues or problems with mine, seemed pretty cut and dry to me :rolleyes:

IMO the bottom line here is someone didnt recieve the installation instructions, so they felt UNsure, so at that point IMO they should have contacted Toyteclifts, and asked for the instructions, or asked if they know anyone in his area that could, install the kit.
Was that done ? not sure, but he did get online and try to bash the company make them look bad.
Toyteclifts must have humans (not rebots) working for them :eek: people make mistakes, robots dont ;)

From my understanding, you got it done, and its done right. I think everyone should kiss and make up :D

[Brody]

Twas merely a matter of sorting things out, much like anything else...no problems on my end...just one of those folks who don't have subtle in their vocabulary...

[Pathrat]

IMO the bottom line here is someone didnt recieve the installation instructions, so they felt UNsure, so at that point IMO they should have contacted Toyteclifts, and asked for the instructions, or asked if they know anyone in his area that could, install the kit.
Was that done ? not sure, but he did get online and try to bash the company make them look bad.
Toyteclifts must have humans (not rebots) working for them :eek: people make mistakes, robots dont ;)

From my understanding, you got it done, and its done right. I think everyone should kiss and make up :D

Before I kiss and make up with anyone other than GateMonkey, I will say this: my rig, my install, my choice on who did it. I trust Brody to do an install on my truck. This is the first FJC he has done and there is a learning curve with most any new task where you have the knowledge base but the specifics are a bit different. I have 8 years of experience with that fact and I am excellent at what I do.

No one bashed ToyTec or Doug and if you look on the FJForum, you will see I was quite gracious with him. I stated quite plainly the product worked, for all to see. Interesting that the first PM I got from him stated, "Nice pictures and write up" and then next was something less than positive about my install and installer.

We had instructions, but diagrams and pictures are a big plus for those of us who are visually oriented. Yes, we got it on, got it on right, and it works. End of story.

[Brody]

This whole thing started by my saying that better instructions would have helped. I meant it in such a way that 'helped' meant not only me , but other customers. Had I been Mr Sensitive from ToyTec, I would've looked over my instructions on the install and tried to make them better. No problem with the product or quality at all, just the rather vague instructions. Keep in mind also that just about everyone who does stuff with their hands is both a visual and kinesthetic learner, so written directions are merely an aid...

Instead of saying thanks or doing something like changing the instructions, he gets his little panties in a bunchy, and whines to Stephanie to remove the post and write up she did. Tunnel vision, as in "I have the bestest products and the bestest instructions in the whole wide world and I'll never listen or change them" is just plain dumb. Along the same lines of "My toys and I'm going to take them home!" attitude.

So would I install another ToyTec lift? Sure. would it go faster and easier? Sure. Would I buy or suggest one to a friend? Hell no, simply because of this BS. And so ToyTec lost some potential customers simply due to a suggestion that he modify the instructions on a customer's suggestion. That's good business, my friend, in anybody's book!

Problems with that, anyone? Well KMA...

I would still change the directions....

How's that for subtle, ya'll? Thus ends my replies to this thread...

[Ric]

This whole thing started by my saying that better instructions would have helped. I meant it in such a way that 'helped' meant not only me , but other customers. Had I been Mr Sensitive from ToyTec, I would've looked over my instructions on the install and tried to make them better. No problem with the product or quality at all, just the rather vague instructions. Keep in mind also that just about everyone who does stuff with their hands is both a visual and kinesthetic learner, so written directions are merely an aid...

Instead of saying thanks or doing something like changing the instructions, he gets his little panties in a bunchy, and whines to Stephanie to remove the post and write up she did. Tunnel vision, as in "I have the bestest products and the bestest instructions in the whole wide world and I'll never listen or change them" is just plain dumb. Along the same lines of "My toys and I'm going to take them home!" attitude.

So would I install another ToyTec lift? Sure. would it go faster and easier? Sure. Would I buy or suggest one to a friend? Hell no, simply because of this BS. And so ToyTec lost some potential customers simply due to a suggestion that he modify the instructions on a customer's suggestion. That's good business, my friend, in anybody's book!

Problems with that, anyone? Well KMA...

I would still change the directions....

How's that for subtle, ya'll?
wooow :eek: can anyone say "DramaLama" :D


Thus ends my replies to this thread...
well lets hope so.

[Chris]

wooow :eek: can anyone say "DramaLama" :D


well lets hope so.

Beating a dead horse guys :confused:

[Tye]

In the words of Rodney King...Cant we all just get along :lol: