Charles Wells

[Brody]

I thought that Charles Wells AKA FunTreks Books was a sponsor for the site here. When we ran into him yesterday, he had no idea what Front Range 4x4 was about and when I handed him a FR card, still didn't seem to know.

Still thanked us for the 'sponsor' banner on the site, though, and said that he would check it out.

We both got a laugh out of being semi famous/infamous authors and all the remarks that people make about our books, both good and bad. Also about the many uses our books have been used for other than reading; toilet paper, fire starters, regular trail litter, etc, over the years.

[Chris]

I exchanged phone calls and emails with one of his staff, can't recall her name, so I can't know that we were ever mentioned to "Chuck." That's how she referred to him and I remember asking who she was talking about. :lol:

Kind of disappointing because she went on about how he would like Front Range 4x4 because of our vehicle diversity. Maybe "they" checked us out and found out we weren't a "big club."

No matter, nice you ran into him and that Steve's spotting was fine so blowing off his advice didn't backfire.

Whew! Well done Steve! :thunb:

[SCRubicon]

I exchanged phone calls and emails with one of his staff, can't recall her name, so I can't know that we were ever mentioned to "Chuck." That's how she referred to him and I remember asking who she was talking about. :lol:

Kind of disappointing because she went on about how he would like Front Range 4x4 because of our vehicle diversity. Maybe "they" checked us out and found out we weren't a "big club."

No matter, nice you ran into him and that Steve's spotting was fine so blowing off his advice didn't backfire.

Whew! Well done Steve! :thunb:

Geez, and I told him, "I suck." My second post in the Nov. 1st O.C.G. trip report sums up my experience with meeting Wells. :rolleyes:

[Tye]

Well as for myself I was less than impressesd with the one they call Charles Wells... Sorry but that my opinion. I expected a better person.

[Brody]

Never said I was impressed with him or his books either. LaDawn and I have also spent a great deal of money and time trying to follow his directions.

Case in point: Trying to find Moody Hill Trail from Kelly Flats. Wells book has you drive 20 or more miles on some BS roads to get to the same spot where you can spend less than half the drive time on a paved road, turn off and drive about a mile to the trail head, thus allowing to actually do both trails in a day. He also give about a 2 word description to Crystal Mountain Trail which is usually run along with Moody to give a pretty hard loop.

Everytime I use his books to wheel, I usually bring along topo and regular maps in order to get where I want to go. Like I said in an earlier post, he needs to spend some time on traildamage.com and get his mileage, directions and current trail information more up to date. At least traildamage is dialed in and straightens out some of his confusion...

[gm4x4lover]

He is one of my customers, i have found him and his company to be very nice and easy to deal with. I have never bumped in to him on the trail nor have i found his books to be way off base. But no body is perfect and everybody makes mystakes.

[Brody]

Being a fellow writer and having had to do a lot of driving (and walking) to get GPS coordinates, and your basic turn right/turn left stuff down, not to mention trying to get down directions on how to follow rock climber's trails to cliffs, descent routes, etc., it is hard to do. And you spend an incredible amount of time doing it. I also cross referenced every information source I could get my hands on and would have given a lot to have had a public info source such as traildamage.com to use. I used a GPS, compass, handheld recorder, topo maps, road maps, and a thigh notebook doing my stuff. I also transposed my GPS stuff onto topo maps to make sure that my coordinates matched.

I have made mistakes in some of my books, too, but not a lot.
BUT...when public information sources such as traildamage .com and GoogleEarth seem to get ignored for some reason, and the biggest complaints for your books seem to be the boogered up directions, both on and off road (and road name descriptions), you need to start doing things a bit differently. And eliminate the " Uhhhh....at the top of the hill there is a maze of roads. Uhhhh....kinda take the leftmost one...' with absolutely no road designations though they are listed on the USGS topo maps...

[Tye]

He is one of my customers, i have found him and his company to be very nice and easy to deal with. I have never bumped in to him on the trail nor have i found his books to be way off base. But no body is perfect and everybody makes mystakes.

I am sure this true, I just dont care for the way he and his as he put it best spotter he knows was bashing Steve and although Steve is thick skinned he didnt need the added pressure.

[SCRubicon]

Well, maybe it was an off day. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. (which is a rare thing for me to do) I didn't like Gene Simmons much when I met him either.

[Chris]

Gene Simmons is an @ss so you had that one right for sure.

[SCRubicon]

Gene Simmons is an @ss so you had that one right for sure.

Perversely wealthy egomaniac. But, I'd probably be the same if I had Gene's cash flow :D

[Pathrat]

Perversely wealthy egomaniac. But, I'd probably be the same if I had Gene's cash flow :D

But think of the supercool rig you would have that you would not deign to drive with us commoners. :D

Interesting that we have all adapted to Mr. Well's books and directions, and augmented them with our own printouts from other sources. I have sticky notes. I understand the point made about directions: I also know of two trails in Arches where you do NOT have to go to the highway to get in and out...there is a .2 mile short cut linking Klondike and Tower that he does not mention.

As far as spotting advice goes, it is pretty rude to demonstrate body language that says, "whatever boy, you just go screw that rig up". It seems like better trail manners would be to phrase something like, "have you tried x,y, z already?" then wait for a response and interest from the other party, UNLESS the other person you are making suggestions to is going to seriously hurt someone or their truck.

[Brody]

I missed something here....who is Gene Simmons? I thought he was the dude with the tongue from KISS?

Nice that Steve was doing the spotting and is thick skinned. Probably would have been and entertaining 'incident' had I (being thickskinned, though less inclined to socially acceptable behavior...) been in Steve's place...

[bookman]

Tye. This is Chuck Wells.

When I'm out on the trail, it's a common occurrence to exchange verbal jabs with my friends. It's part of the four-wheel experience. I tend to think everyone is my friend when I'm in my Jeep.

I thought my comment to you was exaggerated enough to be an obvious joke, but I realized by your reaction, you didn't take it that way. In hindsight, had I been in your shoes, I would have reacted the same way. I've never been the most tactful person. My dry humor is often misinterpreted. I apologized to you later and apologize again to you now.

Just for the benefit of everyone in this discussion, here's my recollection of what happened:

I was with my club, the Colorado 4-Wheelers, with about 10 vehicles. We were about 3 hours longer than expected due to the usual number of mechanical problems. The sun was low in the sky. We came upon your group at the V-notch. One vehicle was struggling a bit with the line. One of our club's best spotters was sitting there when I walked up. He was making some suggestions, but you know how popular that can be if you don't know the person. I took no time to assess the situation and blurted out something like "this is the best spotter in the world" and pointed to him.

Tye, you were actually quite gracious given what I realized later were tense circumstances. I think if you knew me better, my remark would have been taken in the spirit in which it was intended. Perhaps, "you grouchy son of gun", we can be friends someday.

As for the cavalcade of complaints about my books, I will be the first to admit that there are mistakes in some books. I can't tell you how careful I am to do everything right, but it is impossible to be perfect. Remember too, that much changes after a book is written that later looks like a mistake. Even when the mistakes are corrected in future editions, the old editions are still out there to haunt me forever. When I find them or people tell me about them, I post them on my Web site (www.funtreks.com) on the "Trail Updates" section. Unfortunately, few people go there to check.

I would very much appreciate if you would take a minute and let me know what's wrong. If it's an old edition, check the new edition to see if its been fixed. I will post it immediately and correct the book when it is revised.

My guarantee says we'll do whatever it takes to make you happy. Want your money back? It's done. Want a new book? It's done. I don't care where or when you bought your book or if you have a receipt. You don't need to send me the old book or prove anything. If you're not happy, I don't sleep at night.

Incidentally, I'm good friends with the creator of TrailDamage.com. I love her stuff (and GPS tracklogs) and send people there all the time. She, in fact, designed my new Web site, which looks fantastic.

No hard feelings with any of you guys, but I now understand why nobody uses their real names.

Keep the rubber side down.

[SCRubicon]

I missed something here....who is Gene Simmons? I thought he was the dude with the tongue from KISS?



He was that dude. Now he's that businessman who is in a tribute band/lounge act (oddly enough still called KISS) honoring himself and Paul Stanley along with two other ringers playing the characters of Peter Criss and Ace Frehley....:lol:

[Funrover]

No hard feelings with any of you guys, but I now understand why nobody uses their real names.

Keep the rubber side down.

Sorry for your frustration man!

[SCRubicon]

No hard feelings with any of you guys, but I now understand why nobody uses their real names.

Keep the rubber side down.

SCRubicon - the guy spotting Tye's red Rover

Stephen Chabala
9614 West Girton Drive
Lakewood, CO 80227
720-962-4612

[Funrover]

SCRubicon - the guy spotting Tye's red Rover

Stephen Chabala
9614 West Girton Drive
Lakewood, CO 80227
720-962-4612


:confused:

[bookman]

SCRubicon,

Sorry, I got you guys mixed up. I was trying to figure out who was who by looking at your online pictures, which are kinda small. I know we met afterwards and each of you introduced yourself, but later it was hard to remember who was who.

All my comments were directed to the spotter (which was apparently you), not the driver. Hopefully, I didn't insult the driver (Tye) , too.

I've only been on these forums a couple of times. Can you tell I don't know what I'm doing?

[Tye]

Its all good Charles...:thunb:

[Chris]

No hard feelings with any of you guys, but I now understand why nobody uses their real names.


I don't think anyone's harboring any bad feelings Chuck. We all tend to favor people we know and trust spotting us rather than someone we don't on a challenging obstacle. I'm sure you do too.

Having published in the distant past I understand how errors slip through, I'm sure brody does as well anyone else who has gone through it. Write, edit, proofread, edit, proofread, edit, proofread, edit, proofread, edit, proofread, edit, proofread, publish. Open it up and the stuff you're sure you caught jumps out at you.

Some of us do use our real names, I'm Chris, Brody is Brody, Tye is Tye, etc. Besides that we all know each other regardless of what we go by here which I think is one important aspect of Front Range 4x4, we're small enough to know each other unlike many other sites.

Just be careful using "you grouchy son of gun" that's reserved for Brody & myself though we precede it with "old" ;)

[bookman]

Thanks Chris

[SCRubicon]

All my comments were directed to the spotter (which was apparently you), not the driver. Hopefully, I didn't insult the driver (Tye) , too.

It's all good. I told you after the trail, "I suck." Translation - I really don't spot much, or get spotted much, so my style differs from others. I know what my own vehicle is capable of doing and what my personal limitations are, but they don't apply to everybody else. What ruffled my feathers was the way you two went on with it. I don't know you, and you don't know me. I didn't ask for your suggestions or help. After the "Best Spotter" comment, you could have introduced yourself as the Pope, and I still wouldn't have listened... At the end of the day, Stephanie's FJ and Tye's Rover still got through that section - without winching, strapping, or damage. (and it was their first time on O.C.G.) Happy trails :)

[bookman]

Steve,

Frankly, I wasn't there long enough to evaluate your spotting skills. I'd be the last one to criticize; I'm a terrible spotter myself. I hate the responsibility.

We need to go wheeling together, sometime.

[Jamie]

I use my real name!! I'm not scared:D

[bookman]

I've got to figure out how to attach one of those smily symbols:)

[Funrover]

I've got to figure out how to attach one of those smily symbols:)


You can set it up in userCP I forgot totally how but I remember it wasn't hard!

[Tye]

See there...gettin' along :2thumbs:

[Brody]

You wouldn't listen to the Pope if he was your spotter, Steve?? Shame, shame..

And no, we aren't getting along....I hate you, Tye


HEHE

[Tye]

You wouldn't listen to the Pope if he was your spotter, Steve?? Shame, shame..

And no, we aren't getting along....I hate you, Tye


HEHE


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Pathrat]

You wouldn't listen to the Pope if he was your spotter, Steve?? Shame, shame..

And no, we aren't getting along....I hate you, Tye


HEHE

bwaaahahaaa! :lol::lol: Tye, remember what I told you at the rockpile, what I said Hugh and I were just saying? That comment almost made Steve spit out his pretzels. I guess we are not the only ones. :D

[Tye]

:p:p:p

[Pathrat]

As for the cavalcade of complaints about my books, I will be the first to admit that there are mistakes in some books. I can't tell you how careful I am to do everything right, but it is impossible to be perfect. Remember too, that much changes after a book is written that later looks like a mistake. Even when the mistakes are corrected in future editions, the old editions are still out there to haunt me forever. When I find them or people tell me about them, I post them on my Web site (www.funtreks.com (http://www.funtreks.com/)) on the "Trail Updates" section. Unfortunately, few people go there to check.

I would very much appreciate if you would take a minute and let me know what's wrong. If it's an old edition, check the new edition to see if its been fixed. I will post it immediately and correct the book when it is revised.


Charles,
thank you for your gracious reply and request for suggestions. I was not aware that you had updates availible, but of course I did not go to your site to find out what was posted.

I think many of us have difficulties with the mileage markers. An odometer differing for one tenth of a mile can mean a wrong turn, and often, with larger tires, our odometers are off that tenth of a mile when compared to your mile marker directions. My husband and I use your GPS coordinates listed in the back of the Moab book for more precise navigation. Out in the Utah deserts there are many, many offshoots that get you nowhere. We still got lost when we did the Dome Plateau trail, so nothing is perfect. I would suggest adding more GPS coordinates to trails where the terrain is rife with these offshoot dirt paths. Additionally, I can be a tenth of a mile off because of differences in when one does the initial odometer reset. Sometimes the 'real' start of the trail is subjective.

I understand that in the bound printed format, a new edition will not be published just because a few trail conditions change. When I go back to Utah, I would like to provide the exact GPS coordinates and odometer markers for the shortcut that links Tower Arch in Klondike Bluffs in Arches National Park. By accident, I discovered that one can drive past the remnants of the copper mine at the end of Klondike Bluffs Trail, down a short, steep rocky trail and come out within sight of Salt Valley Road. I drove down this in my then stock FJC. At this point, I am about a mile from the end of Tower Arch Trail. This is a great loop one can take from either the HWY 191 entrance or the Arches Nat. Park entrance. Also, the road to Eye of the Whale arch, which is listed as the exit road for Tower Arch is periodically closed so an alternate route is good information to have. The trail to Klondike coming in from Arches Salt Valley Road is noted on page 47 of your 2000 edition of the Moab guide, but there are no directions on how to get there from Tower Arch.

Thank you for your interest in our group and willingness to solicit our opinions.

Stephanie

[Brody]

Thanks for the post for the updates. Do you use resources traildamage and GoogleEarth??

Many trails have had changes and/or closures this year. Are you keeping up with them and posting them to your site as well? Boulder Carnage and Slaughterhouse Gulch are just couple.

[SCRubicon]

You wouldn't listen to the Pope if he was your spotter, Steve?? Shame, shame..

Nope to the Pope... He'd just give me a crusty old Pontiff point while saying, "It's very hot where you're going."


....I hate you, Tye
HEHE

x2...:lol:

[Chris]

Nope to the Pope... He'd just give me a crusty old Pontiff point while saying, "It's very hot where you're going."


...

[Pathrat]

Nope to the Pope... He'd just give me a crusty old Pontiff point while saying, "It's very hot where you're going."



x2...:lol:

Again, very funny! :lol::lol: