best factory 4x4?

[Roostercruiser]

my old neighbor had a 1957 chevy NAPCO 4x4. i always regarded it as one of the best factory 4x4 with no mods. what is your opinion on the best factory 4x4, no specialty off roader like Unimogs or Pinzgeurs. just an everyday rig you could drive off the lot. any year full factory with no mods?

[Brody]

I think that you have way too many variables going on. Best off road, best all round?? I am partial to the older rigs, too, and I will say that that a 69 dodge Power Wagon was one of the best off road. Slow, yes. Turns like a train...yeah, that, too. Fast? Well if a top speed of 40 is considered fast...sure. Off road, though...hey that thing would go through or over just about anything. PTO winches, too...

I love those Chevys! There is a guy on Yale between University and Colorado that has a red Chevy Apache, probably a 56 or 57, that is really sweet. I have almost stopped to see if he would consider selling it, but I don't have the $$$

[gragravar]

Best is kinda subjective, but I'd say the best (for me anyway) would be the newer 4 door rubicon, the LR3 or the mercedes g-wagen. All 3 are incredibly capable straight from the factory. I would be more willing to do more tough stuff with the rubicon (just due to worries of repair costs in the other 2) while I would want to spend more time in the latter two.

[Patrolman]

I would have to go with Brody and say the old Powerwagon. Nothing really beat that! Either that or a Rover. The true deal. An old 88 or 109 wagon. None of them are fast or comfy, but they all have great capabilities, PTO drives, etc. Super easy to work on.

[4Runninfun]

i'd have to say the g-wagon. factory locking diffs, very well set-up suspension. no frills just the basics. (at least for the older ones anyways) a very close second in my mind would be an FJ-80 they are just indestructible, and there's a reason why they are still so popular all over the world.

[SCRubicon]

The NAPCO conversion trucks are pretty neat. 1957 was the first year you could get the 4x4 option right off of the assembly line from Chevrolet. (GMC started doing it in 56) As far as the best "drive off the lot" 4x4, not a build platform... I'd go with the 2005 and up Dodge Power Wagons. 3/4 ton, comes with 4.56 gears and 33 inch tires. Front and rear selectable lockers, pushbutton swaybar disconnect, and a 12k winch to boot.

[Funrover]

Man this is hard to say. Factory I would have to go with

Land Rover Defenders
Mercedes G-wagon
Dodge Powerwagon (OLD ONES)
Toyota FJ (older ones)

[Pathrat]

I agree with the posts on the new PowerWagons and G3s. I have to add that with all the extras, mine isn't too bad right off the floor.

[Brody]

You are right, Pathrat. You have one of the best off the floor wheelers that have ever been made.

When the 57 Chevy Nomad was mentioned, my mind immediately skipped back to older rigs, hence the Power Wagon referral. I am partial to muscle cars and older trucks, anyway, and it reminded me of the cherry Chevy Apache I pass quite often parked in someone's driveway. Dropping in to the paint and body shop the other day didn't help, either, with all of the cool old car and truck projects going on. Made me want to drop a 50's body from something (maybe a panel truck) on my frame and call it good...

[Roostercruiser]

i have to agree with the new powerwagon i forgot everything it came with and i read an article in Peterson's a couple years back and it did really well. the winch,lockers,auto disconnect sway bars. do they only still come with gas motors.

[bskey]

I have to agree with gragravar.... new Rubicon is pretty well set up, and with the current offerings, I think the most bang for your buck when fully loaded. I am partial to the Defenders also, as they have maintained a standard of excellence and not stopped production for many years (internationally).

[Funrover]

The new Rubicon is very impressive, the more I see Steve wheeling his the more impressed I am.

I find the G-wagon and Defender to be more ready for a wider use. A lot depends on what you want I guess. For me the Defender 110, 109 or the 4 dooe G-wagon are perfect platforms for expedition style 4-wheeling. If you are going for strictly rock crawl the Rubicon is better.. To each their own I guess

[4Runninfun]

my thoughts on the new rubi are still up for debate. Steve's jeep has been a point and shoot rig and has been very impressive. but his is hardly stock. but the bigger reasons why i'm still unsure is two things #1 they are still pretty new. years take their toll on cars. and for me to say that a car the best stock 4x4 it's gotta hold up. #2 is all the plastic. I don't remember the name of the part but steve was telling me that there is some module underneath with no skid protection and if you smash it, it's gonna be a long tow bill home. it's great to get to the end of a trail, but if it doesn't get you back out and home i don't want it no matter how cool it is.

[Funrover]

my thoughts on the new rubi are still up for debate. Steve's jeep has been a point and shoot rig and has been very impressive. but his is hardly stock. but the bigger reasons why i'm still unsure is two things #1 they are still pretty new. years take their toll on cars. and for me to say that a car the best stock 4x4 it's gotta hold up. #2 is all the plastic. I don't remember the name of the part but steve was telling me that there is some module underneath with no skid protection and if you smash it, it's gonna be a long tow bill home. it's great to get to the end of a trail, but if it doesn't get you back out and home i don't want it no matter how cool it is.

Yeah I had that same issue with A LOT of the new 4x4's.

[4Runninfun]

Yeah I had that same issue with A LOT of the new 4x4's.

agreed my statement applies to many of the new cars, not just the JK.

[Pathrat]

Yeah I had that same issue with A LOT of the new 4x4's.

I will be a test case for that.

Good points on the Rubicon and Defenders...depends on what you want the rig for.

[Brody]

Ahhhhh....nobody mentioned the 'new improved' driveshafts that Jeep came out with that you simply can't fix on the trail and people like Englewood and Front Range Driveshaft hate...

I have never figured out why so many of the auto manufacturers DO NOT follow the rather simple 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' policy. The new drive shafts are one example...why make a POS driveshaft when the old style was just fine? Especially since it is about a $500 factory fix...I might have just answered my own question....

And the Rubi is a sweet off the shelf ride, no doubt...

[4Runninfun]

...depends on what you want the rig for.

That response right there is why this topic can never be answered. everyone has different expectations for their rig, and as of yet there is no one rig that encompasses it all.

[SCRubicon]

my thoughts on the new rubi are still up for debate. Steve's jeep has been a point and shoot rig and has been very impressive. but his is hardly stock. but the bigger reasons why i'm still unsure is two things #1 they are still pretty new. years take their toll on cars. and for me to say that a car the best stock 4x4 it's gotta hold up. #2 is all the plastic. I don't remember the name of the part but steve was telling me that there is some module underneath with no skid protection and if you smash it, it's gonna be a long tow bill home. it's great to get to the end of a trail, but if it doesn't get you back out and home i don't want it no matter how cool it is.

The fuel evap canister is truly in a silly spot. You smash it and your vehicle goes into, "limp mode." Can be driven home but I still would not want to break it. Hence my neato $99 fuel evap skid from Rock Hard. All of the plastic doesn't matter much to me. They're all useless parts that are going to come off anyway. I have to say the jury is still out. I don't put JK Rubicons on a pedestal but they weren't named Rubicon because they were proven on China Wall... If I had a use for it I'd still take a newer Power Wagon.

[SCRubicon]

i have to agree with the new powerwagon i forgot everything it came with and i read an article in Peterson's a couple years back and it did really well. the winch,lockers,auto disconnect sway bars. do they only still come with gas motors.

Still the 5.7 Hemi - probably a powertrain warranty thing.

[gm4x4lover]

I think these are some of the best ever produced 4x4's

Powerwagon - factory 33's, dual lockers, and winch
h3 - factory 33's, dual lockers, 4-1 tcase, v8 in midsize suv
rubicon - any year, dual lockers and 4-1 tcase
Any of the toyota's with the trd package

[Roostercruiser]

Ahhhhh....nobody mentioned the 'new improved' driveshafts that Jeep came out with that you simply can't fix on the trail and people like Englewood and Front Range Driveshaft hate...

I have never figured out why so many of the auto manufacturers DO NOT follow the rather simple 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' policy. The new drive shafts are one example...why make a POS driveshaft when the old style was just fine? Especially since it is about a $500 factory fix...I might have just answered my own question....

And the Rubi is a sweet off the shelf ride, no doubt...


my 54 chevy came with an closed system and it needed a clutch repalacing and i never changed it because i didnt know how to drop the the driveshaft. because the u joints are in the tranny and in the rear end. ive talk to some people and they said you have to pull the motor or unbolt the rear from the springs and slide everything back as a whole. Damn torque tubes but the good thing is the u jionts are always lubed. 54 is the only year where i think the torque tube was in place for the 1/2tons and in 55 they changed it

[Brody]

Sounds like changing the secondary clutch (slave) cylinder on an XJ with a manual. It takes about 45 minutes to change the master and slave on a Toyota as they are in the open as easy to get to. On the XJ, the slave is in the bellhousing and you have to drop the tranny to get to it...a long process. And...as long as you have gotten that far on the XJ, you might as well replace the damn clutch as well if for no other reason than you don't want to do all the work again...

There isn't much reasoning done on some of this stuff at all. It is quite obvious that whoever designs it never ever works on it.

Another case in point...and on the same XJ, too...I had to replace the radiator. I figured no big deal, it is just a radiator. Wrong...By the time I got the damn thing out, I had about 12 differnt wrenches/sockets out, both metric and standard, a phillips and a couple of different size torques. There were something like 22 bolts and screws holding it in. Why? God only knows as there was no need at all. I think a total of 4 same size hold the Yota radiators in place, if you discount the hose clamps...