Shackle Reversal

[Chris]

I added big shackles to the rear of my truck to level it out when I added new springs that I had a few issues with. Got the problems ironed out and it was sitting @ss high so I added the same shackles to the front. Of course now I have these rock grabbers up front which I don't like.

Thinking of going back to smaller shackles or shackle reversal but the kits made for 60 series really hang kind of low too. Anyone here done their own SR and fabbed the relocated hangars?

[Brody]

I have, so has Bear, Danny, Jeff, Jim, and probably Jon, if not more. You can either fab or buy hangers that will work for you from Toyota, Blue torch. BudBuilt, Sky Manufacturing, Trail Gear, All Pro Off Road, Poly Performance, Northwest Off Road, Marlin Crawler, Speedway Motors, Demello Off Road, Total Chaos, Rock Logic, Sonoran Steel, BDS, or essentially anyone who sells any kind of builder suspension parts. Most of these guys are listed under the 4x tech section on the site. You will find this stuff on their sites under 'builder parts' or 'chassis' or 'suspension' components.

These are really very generic and the deciding factor is simply the width of the springs you are using.

[Chris]

Let's talk about this when we get together Pete.

[Chris]

I'd like to hear from folks that have done this and their experience/opinion afterwards. I used the MAF kit on my 55 and wasn't at all impressed with how low it mounted the front shackle, kind of defeated the purpose.

What kits have you used, or did you fab your own mounts, etc.

:cheers:

[Brody]

You might just want to go to pirate4x4 and search for 'shackle reversal'. There is only about a billion posts on the subject there, mostly on older FJs, and two very big sides on the shackle reversal question. You will find more information there than the combined knowledge of anyone on this site will ever possess...I spent about 2 hours looking at information yesterday morning and again later in the day after your post...Just googling 'shackle reversal' bets you about 4 million hits or so...

BTW, about 90% of anyone who has done the shackle reversal has used the MAF kit...to the point that one wonders if there is another product out there. Every FJ picture posted had the same huge hangers hanging down....seems that has to be a better way than that....

If it was me, I would s**t can the shackle reversal, shorten the spring hanger on the front back to near stock or maybe about 1 1/2-2" taller, and mount a through the frame hanger in the back with a shackle on it. You are going to gain your height with this and, since it is basically a damn truck, probably won't notice any ride difference at all...

[scoutfam]

I have done the RS on my traveler and couldn't be happier with the way it performs. Remember that the main reason for it is that on the trail a normal shackle moves forward as it is compressed. An RS moves back. If you are climbing over an rock or ledge as you reach the top of the rock the spring releases forward and helps the tire to be pushed over the top of the rock. With normal setup as you reach to top of the rock the compression releases and the tire is pushed back off of the top of the rock. I hope that makes sense. On the trail that is one of the bigest reasons for the change. How I did mine was simple take the weight off the springs measure bolt to bolt. Remove the springs and shackles. cut the shackle mounts off the front. cut the dead eye mounts off of the frame. make new dead eye mounts to my liking and weld them in the same place as the shackle mounts used to be. measure from deadeye to the frame and weld the shackle mounts on the fram with some added gusets for extra strength. Poof its done. Well not really poof it took about 8 hours total. I did make new shackles with cross braces but only cause I wanted to. The road manners are a bit different becasue if you use weak or clapped out springs you may feel like you are diving on hard braking. I beefed up my springs with an extra leaf.

[Chris]

You might just want to go to pirate4x4 and search for 'shackle reversal'. There is only about a billion posts on the subject there

That's exactly why I'm asking here Pete. I've read plenty and another billion posts doesn't appeal to me at all. ;)


BTW, about 90% of anyone who has done the shackle reversal has used the MAF kit...to the point that one wonders if there is another product out there. Every FJ picture posted had the same huge hangers hanging down....seems that has to be a better way than that....

Yeah, again reinforcing why I'm asking here.


If it was me, I would s**t can the shackle reversal, shorten the spring hanger on the front back to near stock or maybe about 1 1/2-2" taller, and mount a through the frame hanger in the back with a shackle on it. You are going to gain your height with this and, since it is basically a damn truck, probably won't notice any ride difference at all...

Sorry, I'm not getting this. :confused:

[Chris]

I have done the RS on my traveler and couldn't be happier with the way it performs. Remember that the main reason for it is that on the trail a normal shackle moves forward as it is compressed. An RS moves back. If you are climbing over an rock or ledge as you reach the top of the rock the spring releases forward and helps the tire to be pushed over the top of the rock. With normal setup as you reach to top of the rock the compression releases and the tire is pushed back off of the top of the rock. I hope that makes sense. On the trail that is one of the bigest reasons for the change.

I understand that and believe that argument despite reading plenty of people arguing against it. I never got my FJ55 with the SR off road but it handled fine on the road as I'm sure it will off road.


How I did mine was simple take the weight off the springs measure bolt to bolt. Remove the springs and shackles. cut the shackle mounts off the front. cut the dead eye mounts off of the frame. make new dead eye mounts to my liking and weld them in the same place as the shackle mounts used to be. measure from deadeye to the frame and weld the shackle mounts on the fram with some added gusets for extra strength. Poof its done. Well not really poof it took about 8 hours total. I did make new shackles with cross braces but only cause I wanted to. The road manners are a bit different becasue if you use weak or clapped out springs you may feel like you are diving on hard braking. I beefed up my springs with an extra leaf.

That's more what I'm hoping to hear, my springs are relatively new and like the concept. Beyond by ability for sure but with this in mind I'll take another look at the mounts as they are and see how practical it would be.

Thanks!

[Chris]

Revisited the MAF package and recall why it's so popular - it's under $300.

[Chris]

Since these are so popular with the Yota crowd and make doing a SR easy I'm wondering about shortening them before install so they don't duplicate the rock grabber problem with a fixed point instead of the shackle.

Opinions?

[greenramp]

In the case of the original application the length is important for the pinion angle as it works in conjunction with the length of the shackle in the rear. If you shortened the mount the rear shackle would then need to be shortened as well therfore affecting the throw of the shackle which wouldnt be good either. Again this is for it's original application. If your frame is different then you may be able to get away with shortening it and the shackle. Or if your frame allows, steepen the front angle and box so that it acts as a rock slider and keep the original length. I believe this is a user friendly kit and uses the rear stock mounts for the shackles. (correct me if I'm wrong) and that is why they are both so long. If you could shorten the front mount and do a frame through rear mount I believe that would work well. I am also assuming that the frame is boxed.

[Chris]

Yes, it does use the stock rear mounts. Thanks for the info, I hadn't thought about its design being intended for the stock shackles which, now that I give it a moments thought, is critical. I like the idea of angling it but that would result in decreasing the hole to hole length of the spring mounts which may cause other issues, right?

[greenramp]

small quick drawing: http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/greenramp/shackle.jpg
this is where I would increase the angle. That way if it were to hit a rock the angle would allow it to slide instead of making it an anchor

[Chris]

Cool idea!

:thunb:

[Brody]

If you could shorten the front mount and do a frame through rear mount I believe that would work well. I am also assuming that the frame is boxed.[/QUOTE]

What I was talking about, Chris

[Chris]

If you could shorten the front mount and do a frame through rear mount I believe that would work well. I am also assuming that the frame is boxed.[/quote]


What I was talking about, Chris

I remember reading "through" in your post but I think you left a couple words out which confused me.

[Brody]

{Quote}If it was me, I would s**t can the shackle reversal, shorten the spring hanger on the front back to near stock or maybe about 1- 1/2-2" taller, and mount a through the frame hanger in the back with a shackle on it. You are going to gain your height with this and, since it is basically a damn truck, probably won't notice any ride difference at all...{Quote}


What I said....didn't know how else to say it....Maybe it was the s**tcan that did it.....

[Chris]

I got the s**tcan, I didn't get "through the frame hanger" though it's now beginning to sink in. I suppose this is where I say what's a through the frame hanger? Pics would be good. :p

[Brody]

Here is a picture looking towards the front of the rig. The back shackle straddles the frame and has a tubing sleeve through the frame that the upper shackle bolt goes through. There are a few variations on this, including offset shackles, but the principle is the same no matter what frame you have. The front hanger is a pretty standard stock hanger or modified one like the drawing shows. This is identical to what I did on mine and what Scotty did on Andy's. You can see this set up on essentially any SAS swap on 4Runners and pick ups up until the late 90's models. All Pro Off Road and Trail Gear both have a lot of pictures on their SAS swaps that show this configuration, too, using very similiar parts.The geometry changes a little after the late 90 models, but not too much...

As you can tell from the All Pro and Trail Gear pictures, there is quite a lot of adjustment in the actual placement of the front hangers, the main limitations being tie rod and drag link interference (front to back location). If you do some more research on this, you will also see pictures where the whole front hanger is either at the end of, and welded to, a 2x2 piece of square stock, thus beefing up the hanger points. You will see more photos showing the hangers on top of the 2x2 stock, raising the hanger points 2". On some of the rigs running Rockwells, you will find that these same hanger points are about 8" below the frame and are reinforced back to the bumper. Lots of variations.....This picture shows the hangers at the ends of the 2x2 on the front.

[Chris]

Thanks for that Pete, makes a lot of sense now.

[greenramp]

SO what is the end result you are looking for? Articulation, just eliminating wander in the steer, better on orad handling, Whats the goal so that I havn't missed something

[Chris]

Approach angle. I'd like to eliminate the rock grabbing shackles, they're 6.375" hole to hole and really hang down. The MAF SR's are over 7" themselves and don't offer much improvement in that respect. The road handling isn't bad as is though the caster is off by 3-4 degrees.