scout build up

[scout man]

Alright, so I think I may have finally consolitated my thoughts on what to do with my scout, and I may be starting to have some money to start the project, but I am looking for some advice as to whether these are good ideas or not, and input from those who have done the project before.

The first thing that needs to happen is a lift. I am thinking I am going to do the SOA with at least 33 inch tires. Although, I am considering trying for 35s right away. To do this I would do a 2 inch body llift, which I am considering anyways due to later things, such as an exo-cage. Whether I need the lift or not, I feel I should do it before the exo so I do not have to redo the work down the road if I decide I need one. However, if I do the soa (about 6 inch lift) with my stock springs I can always swap out lift springs later (2.5 or 4 inch readily available) to clear the 35s. Might be safer than the body lift?? Also on the list in the near future is a good winch bumper and roll cage, although at this point I think the roll cage comes next due to my little problem of not being afraid of things that should scare me. I dont always know when to stop. After I have the lift, roll cage, and good bumpers my next step will be rock guards (that can later be incoorporated into the exo).

Next comes the big build, the exo. As I have mentioned before, I feel that I run a huge risk of rolling any time I go out, mostly because I love the thrill of difficult things and can quickly get myself into trouble. My goal with this is a cage that provides for the least amount of damage to the rig on a gentle roll over. I also do not want it to inhibit easy roof removal, and since I will have the interioir cage already, I do not worry much about the top, since those are somewhat replacable if it is every necessary. So I am thinking something along the lines of the photo below. (I did this in paint, so its rough, and I got lazy and stopped drawing curved pipes, so use your imagination to remove the sharp corners) It will protect the body, however, given the nature of the scout it is very hard to connect the rear corners without dissabling the rear door. for this reason I am going to get creative. I am thinking right behind the front seats I will run a pipe from the exo, to connect to the inner cage (yes, through the body... it all leaks anyways!). Unless of course those of you more experienced than I see this as a bad idea. Not sure whether the inside and outside need to be able to flex seperatelly or not. Also, I will run one more crossmember from exo to exo across the very rear, but once again running through the body to connect the two (wont interfere with doors this way.) I also may or may not include the bar running from behind the door to the top of the windshield. This was an after thought to reinforce things. Mainly connect the cage front to rear to prevent it "hinging" on the sliders, and also to reinforce the windshield bar so as to not crush if I roll on it. But if it is decided it doesnt need to be there or help to have it there, it will go away.

the only other project is a custom truck box for the rear cargo space. One that fills the entire area behind the back seat and up to bed wall level, which will have a large drawer for storage and will allow for a large flat area on top for mounting things (highlift, axe, shovel, gas?, spare tire?, cooler, etc).

If anyone has any suggestions for this list, or input as to the cost of the exo cage or truck box, or is up to the task of fabricating some of this please let me know. It will take a while to complete, but I am hoping to start the SOA very soon here.

[Brody]

I am going to sttay away from the spring over /spring under thing as that is totally a matter of preference. I will make a couple of suggestions, though.

Go with the rock rails first as you will use them as anchor points for your exo cage. Doing the exo first will just mean a lot of extra work trying to tie everything in later. With the rock rails on you have a great foundation already tied into the frame, plus you are protecting the body panels in the meantime. Then you can do the exo in sections: do the cab, then do either the front or back...just get the cab protected first. My cage took about 2+ years to build due to $$ and each stage looked pretty good. Look at my album photos and you can see various parts of the build.

Body Lift: After my exo cage was all built, I wished that I had done a body lift...still do. Now the exo is on, it is simply too much work to do and would actually weaken the exo if it was done. The reason I want a body lift is so that I can raise the gas tank and T-case up another inch or so for better clearance. Now, to raise the T-case, I am going to have to cut my floor and build up the transmission hump to get the same clearance. There is no way to raise the tank with the exception of remounting it cross ways in the frame or cutting out the bed. Just things to think about. There are drawbacks to body lifts, but I have run body lifts that I built myself, hockey puck lifts and aftermarket body lifts in a number of rigs with no problems.

As far as tire size..I know of very few 4 wheelers who have not gone to bigger tires...and bigger tires than what they thought were big tires right after they bought them and ran them for awhile. This is one of the reasons you see so many big tires for sale on E Bay and craigslist..Soooooooo...if you are even thinking about 35" tires, just buy the 35" tires and make them work. If you get the 33s and have comtemplated the 35s..face it...you are probably going to get the 35s at some point soon and you might as well do it now instead of taking a beating on the 33s when you resell them. There are screaming deals on used 35s out there simply because the guys with the 'big' 35s decided to go with 37s...I don't think anyone here is going to disagree with me here...I have done this more often than I want to admit. I started with 31s on my heap and 5 years later am running 38s...this was the same progression I just mentioned, too, BTW...

Suggestions on the drawn in exo: Add another top bar over the cab and a cross brace (X) to connect the two. Eliminate the point on the front bumper and base the design change on the size of a winch plate in the center, You will probably end up adding a winch down the road.

There are quite a few folks on the site now with fab skills and we can get you set up with a cage, rails, bumpers and inside storage. I don't have a bender, for instance, but can do pretty much everthing else...so can any of the other fab guys and there are at least 3 with tubing benders and experience bending. Any (or all, probably) of us would be happy to work with you on design and answering questions, so ask away.

[scout man]

wow, thanks for the great response Brody. Yea, I intend to do the rock rails first... or at the same time as the cage if I have the money to keep going, but the rails will probably come first. And you confirmed my thinking that before I go with any of the cage/rock rail fabiing I might as well throw in a body lift, just so I don't regret it later. The bumper I have been looking at kind of resembles what I have drawn in. It is a good solid bumper with a winch plate but it also has the stinger/hoop on it, which I am a fan of, and I figuring that connecting the exo to that would strengthen the hoop as well. I plan on the winch after the internal roll cage though because with the winch I will be even more likelly to end up in a position I have no business being in without a cage.
I do like the idea of another cross bar, however I am not totally sold on this because I want to be able to take the roof off by myself during the summer, and I will already have extensive top protection from my interal cage, which I will have tied into the frame. Is this something I just need to except that I need this cross bar?

[scout man]

ah, you were refering to the point on the actual bumper... yea that was just my drawing. I intend to purchase a bumper anyways and it will definitely be set up for a winch.

[Brody]

You are welcome. I am happy to give any advice as the rig I am driving now is probably the 10th or 11th 4x I have built and I learned a few things along the way.

You mentioned both an internal and external roll cage?? You really need only one or the other and my preference is for the external simply because you are not going to do much, if any, body panel damage, thus paying for the cage really quickly in the first roll over.

The reason for the cross bracing is merely a matter of structural support. If you look at almost roll cage, be it internal or external, you will see that there are supports in an 'X' between the corners of the cage. If you roll, especially sideways, you cage takes all the initial impact on one side. If there isn't some form of cross bracing, the whole cage will rack over to the opposite side. You will probably walk away unharmed, but you will be hell to pay to try to straighten out your cage after this. There shouldn't be any problem with designing a cage that will work with the necessary bracing and still allow you to take your top off. And I am a firm believer in gusseting any corners of the cage. I have seen too many cages that were fairly nicely designed, but not gusseted, get totally racked and essentially ruined in a roll over.

You could have a standard cage that is fully welded or have a cage that allows you to remove the back or upper half to let you do the same thing. There are many cage/tube/fab fittings that are made to accomadate just these things on the market.

Poly Performance, Blue Torch Fabrication and Rock Logic, just to name a few, all have pictures of the many tabs, etc. used in cages and chassis design. Just look in their 'builder parts' categories and you will probably get some new ideas as to what you want.

I actually designed my exo with a hump on the two cross bars over the cab to allow me to easily roll it back to rubber side down.

I should have mentioned this in regard to body lifts. This is another spring under/ spring over, big tire/ small tire, long vs short wheelbase can of worms. Everyone will have an opinion on this. What I would base by my decision on (and I was using my Yota as an example) is what is hanging down and will I be able to move it up if I do a body lift without jacking up pinion/driveshaft angles, etc. They are a PITA...no doubt about it. You are going to be dealing with bolts that haven't been moved for years and they will probably need to be cut or torched off. Do I need new body mounts? This is a biggie and you better do it before the exo...I am speaking from experience here...Will a 1" body lift do what I want or do I need to go to 2"? Another question as body mounts have drawbacks, the biggest two being that the higher you go with the body mount, the more you body is going to want to shift around and the second is that you raise the COG. If you are going to run 35" and stay spring under, then you might find that the 2" body lift is the way to go and that you don't have a lot of choices.

Happy to help any way I can

[scout man]

What I has in mind peter was more of a hybrid between the two. I would start with your basic roll cage as soon as I can afford it for my basic safety, a place a mount seatbelts, and something to throw a bikini top on. Then down the road when I can afford it I would start what originated as a bare-bones exo. It would end up as a unique blend between the two where they will connect and become all exo when I am topless, yet when the roof is on just the bottom would be exo and the top would be unprotected, yet I would still be safe. So the whole thing would be tied together as one solid cage, just part of it ends up inside sometimes. This is why I was avoiding crossing over the top, because I don't need two cages there and I will already have one in place protecting me. The exo in this case is for vehicle safety, not my own. Hope this makes sense, I am typing it on my phone from the back of a semi by frisco!

[Brody]

I thought a little about this and here is another suggestion:

If you did the rock rails by using square or rectangular stock (cheaper, just as strong) you could do the back cage as an easy bolt on/bolt off simply where the cage would attach to the flat part of the rails and bumper. It would be a little weaker simply because of the bolts, but there some really hard core bolts out there, better than grade 8. I think that they are called 9/11 or 911 bolts, which would eliminate some of the weakness.

Unless you already have an internal cage, I really would suggest going with one or the other if for nothing more than the weight savings. You aren't starting out with a light vehicle to begin with. I like your idea, though, and with the weldable tubing clamps out there, it should be fairly easy to accomplish. You could do a couple of bulkhead type fittings that would connect the two cages and have it be a bolt on/through type arrangement. Tricky to do, but not impossible. You would only need to do this in 2-4 spots to have it be strong. And you do also do a 2 piece 'slip joint' fitting to get them through the body panels if necessary and not lose too much strength.

Another thought on the exo as far as design goes, try to run down every picture of exo'd Scouts you can find and get a better idea of what looks good (and functional). I spent a lot of time looking at exos on Yotas before I finally came up with what I wanted on mine.

[Patrolman]

Ditto with Brody regarding the rock rails. They are a great platform for the exo cage to build from. Also, as he said, any body lift you plan to do before the exo, now is the time. I would likely "build" it up a bit before you decide how you want the cage.

If you decide to do any suspension lift, which I presume you will, you will certainly want to look into a frame brace. It is helpful. Also, make sure your steering is in order because it can quickly start to show problems with the suspension and larger tires. Suspension lifts are pricey for Scouts, so I would certainly recommend a SOA. Just personal opinion. Longer shackles are easy to do though so long as your aren't doing the reversal up front.

[Brody]

Thanks, Jeff.

Every time you say 'Ditto with Brody', it gives me a perk! No kidding...you have such a good and solid knowledge base...and better than mine. Thats why I usually tell folks that your input should supersede mine as far as suggestions go.

I wish Bear would not be too busy to do the same. His knowledge base is also huge...

What the hey...we actually have a lot of very knowledgeable folks (from a 4x standpoint...no slight on anything else, but we are talking 4x here) and all of the input is appreciated....a lot..

Always happy when you input on build ups or mechanical questions!

[Patrolman]

Yep, you give lots of good advice too! I have put off my exo-cage until I get my rails built. One logical step at a time!

[scout man]

So, after talking with Josh about this thread, I think I am not communicating myself clearly. Here is an example about the sort of thing I am talking about. http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/uc/ucbriansbattlebus.htm Note that he has the typical roll cage on the cab, and and exo on everything except the cab. They are tied together to make one solid frame, which also creates much more cross bracing and strength. My modification to this would simply be to lower the tie-in point from where he has it and lower it into body level a bit (with some cutting and fabing) so that the roof will still fit over this support. There will be no redundancy in cages because there are no places where the inner cage and the exo overlap. It sounds like the confusion coming into place in my drawing is the pipe running over the door to the windshield. This is simply there because I wanted to not crush the windshield on a roll over (I am kind of fond of having it there). I intend to have the vertical hoop around the outside of the windshield for that protection (as well as a convenient light mounting point) but that is the ONLY exo that is above hood level on the thing. It is not actually a complete Exo.

So, I like the ideas of the cage on the link I just posted except I would make these changes...
1. tone it down a bit... seems like a bit of over kill to me and starting to look a bit gaudy
2. The pipes need to be closer to the body than that, they sit way to far off
3. I am looking for more rounded lines, he has a lot of sharp edges.
4. I want this idea, but I have to be able to get the top on...

So basically, I am stealing a lot of his ideas, and merging my drawing with his actual cage. Is this making any better sense to anybody?? I know its a difficult concept to explain.

and I forgot to add that I like his way of bracing the winshield hoop. I dont like the looks of it, but it makes a lot more sense than the over-the-door support like I had drawn in.

[Brody]

I'll look in the AM. Thanks for the links. You might have to post in all capitals for me as I am sometimes hard of thinking, but it gets there eventually...

LaDawn usually just shouts loudly...

[scout man]

haha, dont mind me, I can barely keep my eyes open and I am trying to make sense... its a recipe for dissaster

[scoutfam]

Alright, so I think I may have finally consolitated my thoughts on what to do with my scout, and I may be starting to have some money to start the project, but I am looking for some advice as to whether these are good ideas or not, and input from those who have done the project before.

The first thing that needs to happen is a lift. I am thinking I am going to do the SOA with at least 33 inch tires. Although, I am considering trying for 35s right away. To do this I would do a 2 inch body llift, which I am considering anyways due to later things, such as an exo-cage. Whether I need the lift or not, I feel I should do it before the exo so I do not have to redo the work down the road if I decide I need one. However, if I do the soa (about 6 inch lift) with my stock springs I can always swap out lift springs later (2.5 or 4 inch readily available) to clear the 35s. Might be safer than the body lift?? Also on the list in the near future is a good winch bumper and roll cage, although at this point I think the roll cage comes next due to my little problem of not being afraid of things that should scare me. I dont always know when to stop. After I have the lift, roll cage, and good bumpers my next step will be rock guards (that can later be incoorporated into the exo).

Next comes the big build, the exo. As I have mentioned before, I feel that I run a huge risk of rolling any time I go out, mostly because I love the thrill of difficult things and can quickly get myself into trouble. My goal with this is a cage that provides for the least amount of damage to the rig on a gentle roll over. I also do not want it to inhibit easy roof removal, and since I will have the interioir cage already, I do not worry much about the top, since those are somewhat replacable if it is every necessary. So I am thinking something along the lines of the photo below. (I did this in paint, so its rough, and I got lazy and stopped drawing curved pipes, so use your imagination to remove the sharp corners) It will protect the body, however, given the nature of the scout it is very hard to connect the rear corners without dissabling the rear door. for this reason I am going to get creative. I am thinking right behind the front seats I will run a pipe from the exo, to connect to the inner cage (yes, through the body... it all leaks anyways!). Unless of course those of you more experienced than I see this as a bad idea. Not sure whether the inside and outside need to be able to flex seperatelly or not. Also, I will run one more crossmember from exo to exo across the very rear, but once again running through the body to connect the two (wont interfere with doors this way.) I also may or may not include the bar running from behind the door to the top of the windshield. This was an after thought to reinforce things. Mainly connect the cage front to rear to prevent it "hinging" on the sliders, and also to reinforce the windshield bar so as to not crush if I roll on it. But if it is decided it doesnt need to be there or help to have it there, it will go away.

the only other project is a custom truck box for the rear cargo space. One that fills the entire area behind the back seat and up to bed wall level, which will have a large drawer for storage and will allow for a large flat area on top for mounting things (highlift, axe, shovel, gas?, spare tire?, cooler, etc).

If anyone has any suggestions for this list, or input as to the cost of the exo cage or truck box, or is up to the task of fabricating some of this please let me know. It will take a while to complete, but I am hoping to start the SOA very soon here.
All you gotta do is call me and we will start when ever your ready. The exo can be built in place and the lift is up to you when ever your ready. :D

[scout man]

It will be pretty soon here. Finally have some money ready, now I just need to find the weekend.

[Brody]

Got it! Good ideas and the cage looks good. I am not one to think too much tubing look gaudy...just look at my rig..

The only thing that looks a bit off is the distance of the roll cage off the front end..everything else looks pretty tight to me. My cage sits about 1/2 -3/4" off of my bodywork in most places and follows the front a little tighter. It looks as though he essentially followed the body lines, not that you have a lot of options, so you are going to get a somewhat square cage no matter what.

Looking forward to the finished results.

[Patrolman]

I guess my comment would still be the same as before, being that you can't add a body lift later since the body won't sit within the cage. Of course if you added a body lift now, then that allows you to run larger tires. :) Plus body lifts are cheap/easy. If there is ever any thought that you might want one, now is the time.

Only other "comment" is that you are sort of getting the worst of both worlds. You are losing outside space when wheeling, and you are losing inside storage space with the internal cage. Those are the general downfalls of each. Of course each also has lots of up sides depending on how you look at it.

[scout man]

yea, the body lift is definitely going to happen before a cage or anything, and probably with the initial lift. I was probably more curious if any one would try to talk me out of it, since some people recommend not doing it, although everyone here seems to think they are great. Although one question, which some of you scout guys might be able to answer.. I hear with the body lift the steering column is still ok, and I beleive the automatic shifter is cable driven, but what about the t-case shifter? Is that going to need any modification? And is there anything else anyone knows of that I am not thinking about that may become an issue with the body lift??

[Brody]

You can get shift lever extensions at just about any major truck stop to raise the height of any floor shifters. You radiator shroud will have to be altered or you radiator raised up a bit. Just watch for anything that is attached to the body that doesn't look like it has 2" or so of slack in it.

Wouldn't say everyone is fond of body lifts here. There are just very good reasons to use them in certain situations. Besides which, they are a cheap alternative to expensive suspension lifts. I still wish I had done even a 1" lift on mine for clearance issues underneath...

[Patrolman]

On the Scouts, all you really have to do is make radiator mounts to lower it to match the engine. The steering column apparently has no need for alteration. The 727 trans is in fact a cable shifter, so it is attached to the body and has lots of room for play. The t-case has enough room in the body to fit the lift with no problem. Mine has the 2" lift and I was surprised at how easy it was. I didn't do it, but my buddy who I bought the Scout from did. He didn't even have to extend the fuel filler tube. You are welcome to take a peek at mine before you do yours. Also a great time to replace the rubber bushings with poly. I helped my buddy do that before he did the body lift. Again, easy if you know the tricks.

[scout man]

So it was a nice day today and I decided it would be a great day to start on a "small" project of stripping the interior out and Rhino Lining the whole thing. As usual this was not as easy as you would think. I started in the rear, pulled out the back seat, and started removing all the hardware... all of which was frozen in place. Next I pulled up all the rubber bed liner, which revealed a nice layer of insulation (asbestos??? I hope not!). Under that was a rubber coat, most of which was melted onto the floor. And under that revealed some nice patches of cancer rust, and a few holes. So I attacked the whole thing with a wire brush on a grinder and stripped it all down. Worked quite well actually. Below is a pic of Jon (Jonnyd49) grinding away on it. Nothing like a wrenching buddy that will grind your rust off for you! Thanks Jon! And there is a nice pic of the horrible insulation they used. Hopefully tomorrow will see the front stripped and the whole thing lined, we will see! There is also a pic that shows you my disaster of a garage, and why I need to sell one of my projects fast!

[Brody]

Nice pictures!

The insulation looks like it has more fiberglass than anything else in it, BTW, and I do not think that asbestos was used in car insulation other than the under hood insulation. I don't think that they used it inside any rigs, but I could be wrong. Not a huge deal and not the deal that the EPA makes of it. People that had problems with asbestos usually worked in the asbestos factories or places where they were exposed to it 40 hours a week.

Kinda like the tests they do for all of the tests using rats...feed rats tin foil and nothing but tin foil, they are going to have problems with it and probably won't live long...


And your garage looks reasonably organized, too. Nothing to worry about for awhile....

[jonnyd49]

Yeah, that was some nasty stuff.

[Haku]

I got to see the aftermath today and we started in on the roof and front. There are some rather large holes in the floorboards up front, and we got shut down by apartment management halfway through prepping the roof for paint. Defintely still some work to do, but its on its way. Steve and I are getting together on Tuesday to finish up the roof and such, since my place is a bit friendlier towards car work.

JH

[Brody]

You guys run into too much of that unfriendliness, shoot me a PM and maybe I can help out with a spot to do some work.

[scout man]

Started in on fixing my rust holes in my floorboard today. A big thanks to 1Freaky1 for helping out with this. Finished the front two today and still have the back two to finish. Turned out being a way larger project than expected. I will post some pics after its all done... don't feel like shrinking and what-not tonight...

[scout man]

Oh, and I forgot to mention the I discovered today that two of my body mounts are completely rusted out... that should make the body lift a lot of fun.

[Funrover]

Ah the joy of classic rigs

[Roostercruiser]

our scout is almost like the wonder women plane on the old cartoon its almost see threw with all the rust:rolleyes:. where putting on the soft top but you need rails where the hard top sits on to anchor the sides of the soft top and ours are rusted right threw 1/2 the lenght of the bed. luckiyly the scout came with some daimond bed caps off a pick up and cut to size to fit the scout and thats our new top of bed.

[Roostercruiser]

have you taken the top off? if not yours might be rusted in the channels or missing like ours

[1freaky1]

Started in on fixing my rust holes in my floorboard today. A big thanks to 1Freaky1 for helping out with this. Finished the front two today and still have the back two to finish. Turned out being a way larger project than expected. I will post some pics after its all done... don't feel like shrinking and what-not tonight...

Your are quite welcome, just glad to help you out with it! One of the days if you cannot find replacement body mounts for it I can make you up a set. But to put them in right it will take us more than a day to do it right with all the prep work.


Ah the joy of classic rigs

Yeah they take certain type of love to keep them going. I know I would still rather keep my old rides rather than have the new ones, SO much easier to work on and more room to do it too!

[Brody]

When I got the 69 Bronco, I forgot to look at the floor boards. I looked at all the mechanical stuff, but really not much at all on the body panels. Well, I decided to take the carpet out and do the Rhino lining/clean up business and when I did, removed about 1/2 the flooring, making a couple hour project into a two day affair....Sounds like you guys have run into the same stuff.

Sean does some sweet sheet metal work....

[scout man]

have you taken the top off? if not yours might be rusted in the channels or missing like ours

Actually had it off for the first time the other day. I was pretty happy with it. I think the rear of the passenger side rail was rusted out, but there was at least some integrity to the rest of the rails. I had thought about the bed rails also... possibly just bolt them in through the original bolt holes for the roof. That is, of course, if you are going completely topless, probably doesnt apply to a soft top. I'd love to come check out that soft top sometime, as it is on the list somewhere down the road... but probably a long ways down the road.

[1freaky1]

Glad we got that finished up for you today, hopefully you will get the rest done this week and meet your goal with lining it, also it would not hurt to clean around the new metal from the bottom side and coat it too

[scout man]

So I have finally have my lining project done. AND, I managed to get to pics to post! So here is one before and after, more to come when I get it to work. I Herculined the entire tub, and used some spray rubber to coat the roof (clearly not visible in these pics) Note the nice metal patching work on the floor that Sean did for me... and also a thanks to Josh for letting me do all this work in his driveway. I am really happy with how the tub turned out, and ok with the roof. 4 out of the 9 cans of rubber stuff for the roof were absolute crap and got returned to the store, which resulted in some splotchy results, and still a few kinda bare spots, but I will get to them someday. I also picked up some 35" procomp tires the other day in preparation for my springover, as well as pulled a front shaft out of an 86 Waggy to replace my stock shaft. Well, I got all except the transfer case yolk... dang thing just would not come out. So I will have to buy an end for that, assuming that I can not use my stock end for the new shaft. We will see. Anyways, only worked 4 hours this week at the day job, which sucks, but I probably spent a good 32 hours on the scout this week, which is great! Anyways, Ill work on the picture thing, because there are still some good ones to come...

[scout man]

Alright, here is one more before and after, and the final product...

[Haku]

Good fun the last couple days. Lots of paint fumes and flying particulate of unknown origin.

Steve posted some before and after, but I have some during pics. Herculiner doesn't dry very fast, especially on a sub 60 degree day with no sun. Steve ended up taking my Subaru home for dinner and came back later that night, in hopes that when he got there it would be dry enough to drive.

Needless to say, it was still tacky but not so bad that he couldn't throw the drivers seat in and take it home to dry the rest of the way. Here are a few pics of installing the seat that night:

http://29ivcw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pG3B9ahI7EIFsE0vqC6dCnMXUNXtHWf-hpeqMGmzTx8jsOKPT5Rqacg0RInOFdvMngQqdRgbfo_3_OGuZB rp1tg/SteveSeat.jpg

http://29ivcw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pV2zm40o0LgJ1m6Gh0DuL2iwy4zEEB1SjWazrjxIyneBMxXZ 5rsfhKOqBLrlYId7CFSae3N5Y7TY/SteveSeat2.jpg

As you can see, Steve has a thing for automotive sodomy. The funniest (and likely most painful) part was that right before he tried this, he tried it without the big plastic condom, and managed to glue his arm to floor on the still slightly sticky bed liner. I was under the car trying to line the holes up, and all I heard was a groaning noise and slight tearing noise to follow it. Needless to say, I think Steve has given a part of himself into this car, even if it is only a few chunks of skin and arm hair.

The rig looks a ton better, and should offer a more power washer friendly and durable function.

JH

[WINKY]

daayyyuuumm that liner paint looks awesome!!! i need to do that to the bed on my rig! (ill pay ya good since your arms are already nasty) HAHAHAHA

[Roostercruiser]

looks good i like where you put your CB is it in a vent? i hate to see how bad my floors are if i pull up the mat

[1freaky1]

Steve that turned out looking pretty good. Will definitely make it a lot easier to wash out.

[scout man]

daayyyuuumm that liner paint looks awesome!!! i need to do that to the bed on my rig! (ill pay ya good since your arms are already nasty) HAHAHAHA

Hey let me know, I'm up for some work... i worked 4 hours for my full time job last week and dont work again till Thursday... some full time job huh?


looks good i like where you put your CB is it in a vent? i hate to see how bad my floors are if i pull up the mat

It is actually in the original radio position. I cut it out and made it a bit bigger (someone had already butchered the fake wood outside anyways) and I dropped the radio down below it and cut a new hole. Not exactly conventional, and it sticks out a bit, but it is a VERY tight fit which would make it very hard to steal and for it to fall out on the trail. I am pretty happy with it, except my CB wont broadcast, only receive... kind of defeats the purpose of a CB. Threw a more detailed pic down below.


Steve that turned out looking pretty good. Will definitely make it a lot easier to wash out.

Sure will! I couldnt be happier with it. Thanks for your help!

[1freaky1]

Not a problemo there! sorry that it took a extra day to finish it tho and throwing you off schedule. Bet it is a bit quieter now too.

[Funrover]

Looks good!

[scout man]

Not a problemo there! sorry that it took a extra day to finish it tho and throwing you off schedule. Bet it is a bit quieter now too.

It sure is quieter. Between actually having a solid floor, and having some insulation down, and a rubber roof, it made a huge difference. Not to mention it is a LOT cooler in the cab, of course that could also have to do with the fact that I finally rebolted the doghouse cover around the shifters down again, so its not a straight shot to the transmision anymore ! :thunb:

[scout man]

When Sean and I tackled my floor issue, we discovered that two of my body mounts are basically non-exsistant due to rust. Below picture show what the mount looked like when it was new, what it looks like right now (note that the entire C-channel has rusted out), and an idea I have to fix it. I was thinking a run of square tube, as long of a piece as possible without having clearance issues, and welding it into place of the C-channel, also eliminating the issue of the rusted floor board that the bolt used to mount through. I have not looked yet, but I am guessing it is not going to be possible to run one solid tube across both body mounts because of the transmission and whatnot, but I figure the longer the piece the better in order to increase surface area on the floor boards so the new mount does not pass through. I am sure there are some thoughts on this out there (:brody:) and I was curious if you all think this is a good approach or not.

[1freaky1]

Steve, I would suggest taking the square tubing all the way out to the body sides from the tranny tunnel, it will give you full support across the fron and the tranny tunnel should already be re-enforce unless it too has rusted out. When welding it in go at least with 1/8" plate on the body side and where the bolt hole is minimum. You could also weld the tubing to a plate then to the floor wider than the tubing giving you more strength.

[scout man]

Steve, I would suggest taking the square tubing all the way out to the body sides from the tranny tunnel, it will give you full support across the fron and the tranny tunnel should already be re-enforce unless it too has rusted out. When welding it in go at least with 1/8" plate on the body side and where the bolt hole is minimum. You could also weld the tubing to a plate then to the floor wider than the tubing giving you more strength.

Yea, I intend to run the square tubing as wide as I can. Hopefully to the side of the body and to the tranny tunnel.

[Haku]

Whoo hooo.........MS paint for the win. Looks like that should work pretty well. Of course, as we have found out lately, it will likely be a bigger project then anticipated. Definitely willing to help out though. The one main downside I can think of is you might burn off some of the Herculiner you just laid down due to the heat of the welding, but it shouldn't be too bad as long as you don't over do it. Just get some nice strong tubing too and it will last forever.

JH

[scout man]

So, I stumbled across this really cheap roll cage that fits the scout quite well. Going to check it out and/or pick it up tomorrow. I realize it is not the best designed cage, but I think it will be a good starting point for just a little extra tube work. I think it is fairly decent for a starting cage from the "B hoop" on back. But it clearly needs an "A hoop" installed, as the overhead protection for the front seats is fairly non-exsitant. Check it out and let me know if you see anything that really worries you about it. I will be leaving here at like 10 am to go get it, so anything after that wont do me much good, but if you see this post before then and have any serious concerns about it, let me know. I measured all the demensions and it actually does seem to fit quite perfectly... http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1084215394.html (http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1084215394.html)

[Brody]

I don't think that you are going to beat that price and it looks like it would only need minor modifications to finish it. You wouldn't even be able to buy the steel for that price...

[scout man]

Picked up the cage and installed it today. Not my favorite design for a cage, but for $150 I definitely cant complain. It fits great. Need to build out the front (and probably lose the little diving board out the front) and do some cross bracing, but a great starting point. I think it is a stock roll bar (although possibly for a scout 80 or 800) that someone tried to build a cage off of. Bolted down in lots of places, which is good, but had to do some creative bolting in a few spots.

ok, pics to come when the deside to work

[scout man]

ah here we go, finally got some pics.

[scout man]

hmmm, either the resizer squished things or I seriously need some glasses

[Patrolman]

Just some really cool body work. Narrowed the Scout at the same time the cage went in.

It certainly didn't come from an 80 or 800. Those have flat inside wheel wells like a Jeep that run all the way back. This was designed to fit over a hump. I bet the bar was made for a Scout or Blazer...

[scout man]

True, it is designed for round wheel wells. It actually looks like it was very specifically designed for my scout, except that the bracket on the front hoop has weird hole placements in it, some of which run into the body reinforcements underneith. Maybe it was just a different year of a scout II. And yes, I performed some rather impressive body work today... shrunk the hole thing!

[Brody]

Looks like that is going to work out fine!

So...how does the Scout do with the oblong wheels and tires? Do they get rounder after they warm up..kinda like bias plys with a twist?

[scout man]

Looks like that is going to work out fine!

So...how does the Scout do with the oblong wheels and tires? Do they get rounder after they warm up..kinda like bias plys with a twist?

No Brody, they provide a nice bounce in the suspension, kind of sucks on the highway, but bounces you right over the rocks on the trail. Just get those tires spinning fast enough and leap over anything! :drive:

So on another note, this -:rant:- is by far the most animated smily I have ever seen. Just watch this thing, its like a full 30 seconds before it runs out of new material... someone has a little too much time on their hands...

[Chris]

So on another note, this -:rant:- is by far the most animated smily I have ever seen. Just watch this thing, its like a full 30 seconds before it runs out of new material... someone has a little too much time on their hands...

:lol: I never noticed that but you're right.

Who is it that really has too much time on their hands? :D

[scout man]

:lol: I never noticed that but you're right.

Who is it that really has too much time on their hands? :D


Well I have never argued with that one. I have worked 4 hours in the last two weeks. please, someone take this time OFF my hands!!! :bang:

[Brody]

Me too, Scout Man, me too. I am starting to do all of my projects at 1/2 speed just so that I don't run out of crap to do...Doing all of the truck stuff that I stashed stuff for, but never got around to doing, all the house paint touch up, yada, yada. Don't have the $$ for gas to get to climbing areas or to wheel, or I would be doing more of that...Such fun....

[Chris]

You both are welcome to lend a hand over here, I've got my 2 year old and 4 day old since my daughter has an infection and her husband had to take her to the hospital. :(

Yeah, they're both asleep. :2thumbs:

[scout man]

Yeah, they're both asleep. :2thumbs:


WOW! nice work Chris... I am impressed! And you dont want me over there... they wouldnt be sleeping anymore, they would be screaming.

[Brody]

And if I was over there too, they would be hurling bodily fluids over me, Scout Man, your house, driveway, garage.....and screaming.....

Thanks, but....

[scout man]

And if I was over there too, they would be hurling bodily fluids over me, Scout Man, your house, driveway, garage.....and screaming.....

Thanks, but....
hmm, sounds fun, sign me up! :woot:

[Haku]

And if I was over there too, they would be hurling bodily fluids over me, Scout Man, your house, driveway, garage.....and screaming.....

Thanks, but....

Sounds like we need to start a Front Range 4x4 babysitting service. Except this one they pay us not to come for fear of destruction and mayhem. Unless they are yours (and even that is questionable) then kids and wheeling don't mix. It would be rather amusing seeing you two try to keep kids happy though.

JH

[scout man]

Updates: The spring over is starting on Friday, then I can finally get the 35's out of my garage and onto the scout! Went wheeling today, and decided I really really need the extra clearance. Josh will be throwing up some pics from today, and you will see me high-centered a few times on moab hill in illinois gulch (made it tho!).

On the drive back today with a really bad sleet storm around us, my idle suddenly increased significantly - to the point that I had a really hard time stopping in gear, and I could idle down the road at 30-40 mph without touching the accelerator! Figured out it is because of a plastic lever that slides in between the idle screw and its fully closed position. I think this may be my autochoke??? It has never worked since I owned the thing and now it doesnt seem to want to turn off. anyways, will have to dig into after the snow has stopped. I have to take the air filter housing off to really get my fingers in there and didnt want all the snow falling into the carb. Hopefully its just a spring that fell off. Any thoughts?? Maybe Ill try to snap a pic of the part I am refering to and throw it up here.

[scout man]

alright, so not sure if you can really see anything in this pic. What you are looking at in the red circle is the idle adjust screw. at the left side of the idle adjust screw there is a slightly greenish curved piece that goes down and to the left. This piece normally is in the position shown. However, for some reason all of a sudden when the throttle is opened, the piece springs upward leaving the wider section under the tip of the idle screw, therefor increasing the idle. Anyone know what this is or why it would suddenly be an issue?? If you cant tell from the pics I understand.

[scoutfam]

It is the idle adjuster for cold start. when the choke is on, the engine is cold, the plastic wheel looking thing actually holds the throtle open more so that the engine can warm quickly and not die while cold. If that is causing the problem we can do a quick adjustment on friday. it is an easy fix.

[scout man]

It is the idle adjuster for cold start. when the choke is on, the engine is cold, the plastic wheel looking thing actually holds the throtle open more so that the engine can warm quickly and not die while cold. If that is causing the problem we can do a quick adjustment on friday. it is an easy fix.

That is about what I thought it was, but I dont know why it would have suddenly kicked in today, when I had been driving it for 5 hours already. It was during that storm when it started, but still should have been very warm in the engine. hmm.

[Chris]

alright, so not sure if you can really see anything in this pic.

I guess I missed your pic, must have been right after I grabbed everything, please add it so we can see it. Sorry.

[Roostercruiser]

when we start our soa on our scout could you help us? i wont be for a while

[scoutfam]

I would love to you don't live that far away from me....... we are about 60 or 65 percent I am sure that scoutman will have some pics up to show. It is gonna be a big monster....:D

[scout man]

I would love to you don't live that far away from me....... we are about 60 or 65 percent I am sure that scoutman will have some pics up to show. It is gonna be a big monster....:D

Yes, he was not lying when he said big monster. I'm excited to get it rolling. Josh will have to throw up some pics, they are all on his camera. Should be able to see a good shot of the difference between SOA and non SOA. Also increased tires to 35's from like 30's. Scoutfam is doing a great job so far and is great to work with. I will definitely get some pics up here for you all.

[Haku]

So it was a fun day yesterday. I was amazed at how much lift this added. Some pics to show it:

Before:
http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pmD2VUB5If7XOJeeDzJc-jXekMvvSMTXrGB_BqZhNzX-ilODl1-GCMZBH6sboxGErqsFOIK3Dqi1-EGaxmOFtlEMR4Yug0Q1b/1.jpg

and After (or at least halfway through:

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p5lnxSccObdUIhOzqDfgh39syYdU2dM9oMVFsTrEjePseTIT DIucMn1crEHoGajufoJ2_NgZdAu9AkPrDufU3oJHTkIYW5JnZ/2.jpg

Good times.

JH

[Haku]

So I'll do a bit more detailed description of what we did yesterday. The drive down wasn't bad if a bit windy. Got to Gary's at about 10am and interupted his breakfast. After that we tore right in. Here is a before pic of the underside of the Scout:

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pfqFSI-OOSpaBzAg5ysnoxG2NjlPgubO8rjIXnleI2oQmmkuyGHjUjQVl oIi813QmCl6Huf_AiwHlif9W22FlLw/3.jpg

From here we started tearing everything down. Liberal amounts of PB Blaster and some elbow grease were used. We started with the u-bolts to detach the axle from the springs. Most of them broke relatively easy, but there was quite a bit of rust so they definitely were a long time coming off. From there, we got the brake lines off the axle, detached the shocks from the lower mount, and dropped the shackles off the springs to lower them. We tried moving the axle out the side, but the clearance was just a bit to small, so we dropped the springs down so we could rotate the axle a little bit. You don't have to get the axle completely out from under the car, just from above the springs to below. Here are a few pics of these steps:

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pW23VufIjUX5ElzkRfPedNTkW2w6KjgqoRpVERJszs2klSsS VZUQUZ8PA9EsnXjVesseZmTqsjjQn1dK02UeIoA/4.jpg
http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pkQIvSV6CKpsng42v3beK_4fWz9-pzfeyFmbEwwtqsJSQBxz0W7jZiVrQsvI_PpcMnPrWlP-JTXOBJ8-T7eMyTQ/5.jpg

[Haku]

Once the axle is under the springs, you can bolt the shackles back together and get the spring back in position. Once the springs are in position you line it up and weld the new spring perches onto the axle. Steve got some new ones from 4 wheel parts, but you can grind off the stock perches and reposition them on top of the axle too. Its more work, and the new ones are only 20 bucks or so. Plus, the stock perches are a really nice place to jack from. I didn't get any pics of the perch weldling since Steve and I took my car to get his new 35 inch tires swapped onto his rims. The more I drive it, the more I realize the Subaru is a general purpose vehicle:

35" tires on the Subbie (a little girl in the tire store said " Why does that little car have such big tires being put on):

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pr2uhKEFJvGGxhVuN3jejiLSKXF1QGfQFBPH-VsBgh_70tqrr_nLtLYT7nTq6_p5F8qMOd3ZvCy0FlnMoe4khwg/8.jpg

When we got back, Gary had the perches welded on, so we proceeded to get the axle attached to the springs again. We reused the u-bolts, as they were mostly in decent shape. Definitely took a while do to rust again, but they should be structurally fine. Put the brakes back together and such too. Here are some pics of the axle put back in place:

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p0BqurkJHpyVXq1RjTjogaF17V1WhPUN0kXeE_r3AGwwcWE_ uuwurXNqN35wV4ehPizRh21yt_Go18YPSh-yWyQ/6.jpg

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p2eSFCTmwWCMkqGclrb2rFrFbfBHbjkDPpnuZPMPAeuWYxBY wMeY2nQj-yaMyX0ESzi7-B8wsJizi9taGaS_Nxw/7.jpg

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pI2RP6ANlnGGqZxdTI35Cqb2K84nELtY0sfd1SlMKweYDkaC mjEs9-vI-EptbuOKJPmGvaytZkbzOPZn-yV7Ibg/9.jpg

[Haku]

With everything bolted back on and torqued, we then found our first problem of the day. The drive shaft was too short, which is something Gary hadn't seen with his Scout. We also tried a different drive shaft that Gary had from a previous vehicle with no luck. This meant that we had to cut the driveshaft and add in a section long enough to make both ends of the DS meet up. Gary didn't have anything that would work, so Steve and I set off to find a steel pipe that would fit either inside or out.

Here began a 9 store quest that took us all over Colorado Springs to find the right pipe. We tried several steel providers, scrap yards, and finally ended up at a industrial plumbing supply house before finding something that would work. The drive shaft is a really uncommon size and led to much head scratching at most of the places. I think we ended up with a 2" plumbing nipple that had threaded ends that just barely fit inside the driveshaft. A bit of grinding should be all it needs to fit perfect. Gary is working on that today.

By the time Steve and I got back from the quest, Gary had the shock tabs fabbed up and welded onto the axle. He also had done the finishing touches on it like getting the shocks remounted (even though they are too short for offroad use, they'll at least be good enough for making it road worthy). Here is a finished pic of the axle right before we turned the Scout around to start work on the front axle:

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pw7yNiSuggHhSEH8IJilNbc-2ZwVn08366Xsg7R7vsVE88S2ZG_sa_J9LN1UpV7dOcETvpQm-Pfs1g4nmO1RNCw/10.jpg

We got the Scout turned around and started tearing into the front axle. The brakes are a bit easier since you just take the calipers off. Other then that its very similar to the rear when you take it apart. You have to disconnect the steering of course, but otherwise its just unbolting the u-bolts, shocks, and springs and then rolling the axle out from under the vehicle. Its about an hours work all told, but not hard. You do have to get the axle out from under the vehicle with this one, as it takes a lot of grinding for the front. Unlike the rear, the fronts pinion angle needs to change, so you have to grind off the welds holding the axle to the knuckles and rotate it till the pinion aims straight at the transfer case. Simple idea but hard to execute, especially executed well. How Gary explained it to us was that you took the axle out and grind the welds off till you see the seam all the way around. Then you put the axle back under the vehicle, weld the perches on and bolt the axle to the springs. This makes it so that the axle stays in place and you can then align everything and do a couple tack welds to hold it in place. You then pull the axle back out and do the finish welds.

We only got to the tear down and prep stage. Gary is planning on doing the grinding and such today, and possibly the aligning too depending on the weather. The last thing we did yesterday was grind off the spring hangers and shackle mounts, since Steve wants to go shackle reverse in the front. You essentially just move the spring hanger from the back to the front, and then the shackle mounts at the rear of the spring. This should add a tad bit of height, but more importantly puts the shackle in a more protected place. Gary had the front SR brackets from a previous project as well, so he welded that on last night too. Here are a few pics of us tearing the front apart and doing some grinding:

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pUFUSJxfXQGOQhIyPFzWrdU63WWP1plOJT_ueA37o4fgzcT-8aFcOiuhVhva7zn5iYlG-zHDhSR8K36QB25WIeA/12.jpg

http://4hqaoa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pQXstXAOe2Uydv5P4cIxFbi4misVeSEmCQZeL-VFq4ZEdhdKcNfflNWqCTvtkULeL_uf93VLG26YZsbVeWcCCJA/13.jpg

I won't have any pictures of the grinding process since I'm not there today, but at the very least I'll take some of the finished product. The plan is to go down tomorrow (Sunday) and finish up. Since Steve is gonna be busy for a while, he wants to go wheeling as soon as we are done tomorrow, so I'll be driving us down in the Samurai. This is a pretty slick and elegant way to do a lift and adds a ton of lift, especially with the bigger tires. Looks like some fender trimming might be needed to fit them and not hit when flexing. Steve and I will keep ya'll posted with updates for sure.

JH

[Patrolman]

Nice work! Glad that it all went together with little pain. It is certainly a cheap way to get lift and still have good soft springs! Looks like everyone pitched in for a great project.

[Funrover]

SWEET!!! Always good to have help!

[Brody]

Thanks for the great build up pictures! Not only is it a good way to keep track of stuff, but I think that it s really good for letting other folks know how to do things on their rig...plus the fact that it lets people know how much work goes into stuff like this.

[scout man]

So just a little ways left to go on it, but the final ride height has been established. There are some pics before showing before and after, and one of me in front of it just for size reference (I am about 5' 9"). Only thing left is to lengthen the rear driveshaft (which usually doesnt need to be done, but for some reason my driveshaft and Gary's extra all come in about an inch short.) Also need to build the Z-link for the front. Then its done!! Anyways, really just wanted to throw up some pics, so here they are...

[WINKY]

nice man!!

[Funrover]

BEAST!!! Looks good man

[Roostercruiser]

looks real good

[WINKY]

i messed up

[WINKY]

...:D

[Roostercruiser]

after seeing the difference i cant wait to get started on ours

[Brody]

Nicely done!

What happened to the sun when we were trying to get stuff done outside?

Big difference on the lift! Try Englewood Driveshaft. They are just off of Hampden and Broadway (Floyd, I believe)...Anyway, turn east at the post office, take the alley behind the PO and they are down on the right side. If you say that you are from Front Range 4x4, Pete Brody sent you and ask for a couple of their stickers, you will be out about $100 for a new shaft.

If you are going to do your own and not worry too much about the vibrations, throw a couple ounces of silica sand inside it before you weld it shut. The sand acts much like shot or bead in a tire and eliminates a lot of vibration...Works on square driveshafts, too....

[scout man]

Nicely done!

What happened to the sun when we were trying to get stuff done outside?

Big difference on the lift! Try Englewood Driveshaft. They are just off of Hampden and Broadway (Floyd, I believe)...Anyway, turn east at the post office, take the alley behind the PO and they are down on the right side. If you say that you are from Front Range 4x4, Pete Brody sent you and ask for a couple of their stickers, you will be out about $100 for a new shaft.

If you are going to do your own and not worry too much about the vibrations, throw a couple ounces of silica sand inside it before you weld it shut. The sand acts much like shot or bead in a tire and eliminates a lot of vibration...Works on square driveshafts, too....

We actually went out and got a piece of pipe that sleeves inside the shaft and are going to cut and add it in. The balancing medium of choice is a ton of grease. Gary says it does the same as the sand or metal shot, but once its in place it really doesnt move so its a bit more permanent. Should be done today!

And yes, it is a beast!

[Brody]

Thanks for the tip on the grease! Makes perfectly good sense and you don't have the possibility of crystals getting loose inside...

I have taken the precaution of adding oil to the inside of my drag links and tie rods, in addition to using anti seize. I managed to break an FJ 80 rod end and then a 2' pipe wrench trying to get the rest of the end out to replace it. End result was a new tie rod as all the threads were so rusted they stripped out the rod. And I had used a bunch of anti seize, too. When I got it out, the entire inside of the rod tubing was a rust pit. Since then, I essentially fill the tube up with oil so that I can, if need be, align the tie rod and drag links...Of course the above happened on a weekend and I had to be at work on Monday AM....

Bottom line...I love the grease idea!

[MountainMan]

scouts are cool!

[1freaky1]

That looks alot better!

[Patrolman]

Sweet job! Good to have it done in a weekend too!

[scout man]

Drove her home tonight. Some weird little things that will take some further tinkering. For example, need to get some rims with a smaller backspacing to correct some clearance issues. When I turn hard one way, the rear of one tire hits the spring and the front of the other hits the springs. Hopefully some spacing will clear that up, if not I need to shorten my pitman arm. We will see. Also getting some vibration from my extended drive shaft. Need to see about that, might end up trying to find a longer one and keep this as a spare. Vibration isnt really bad enough that it bothers me that much but the issue is that the vibration seems to be crossing into the transfer case, and if I let off the gas when going over like 50 on the speedometer(which is like 62 Mph I think) it makes the transfer case sound as tho the gears are grinding. Gary did a great job with the work, I just think since it does see a lot of road use an altered shaft may not be the best idea, and I might have to drop the money for an intact one. But with all that said, I am extremelly happy with the job that was done. Clearly when you raise a vehicle by that much there are going to be differences and kinks to iron out, but Gary did an outstanding job with exteme attention to detail. I would definitely work with him again and if any of you scout guys are looking to do a spring over, he is a great person to have assist. Hopefully by next week or so I will have some pics of it in action. Anybody have 15" - 5 on 5.5" wheels with minimal backspacing they want to part with???

[Roostercruiser]

i would really like to have yalls help when i start ours. how much out of pocket did cost?

[Brody]

You might want to see if some simple wheel spacers..like the totally generic kind from Pep Boys/Checkers, etc...would work. Doesn't sound like you need much, so maybe 3/8-1/2 would do...Just a thought...


Another on the driveshaft, especially if you think you'll keep the one on it as a spare: Grab a bent one, maybe with a double cardan from Colorado Auto Parts and have Englewood Drove Shaft re sleeve it for $100 or. They bend 'em moving rigs at the yard all the time and get rid of them for a song...Mention FR or me if you do this and they'll cut you a deal...Don't know if you got a double cardan, but if you don't, it may be the ticket to end the vibrations...

You guys probably know all this anyway..I am merely tossing out thoughts..

[scout man]

i would really like to have yalls help when i start ours. how much out of pocket did cost?

Aside from the new tires, I really just dropped $20 on a drive shaft from an 86 waggy (front), and some angle iron and bolts, and whatnot. I would say that aside from paying Gary for his services I dropped maybe $200, and thats including some Rancho shocks. Its really not too bad at all.

[scout man]

So, after work today I stopped in at 4 Wheel Parts because its right around the corner from where I work, and I was curious on wheel prices. I parked my scout, went in, then came out and realized the scout was not sitting where I left it. It sometimes doesnt like to click into park, this time included, and rolled across the parking lot into a jeep wrangler. So long story short, the money that was going into my rig is now going into someone elses... :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

[Chris]

Really sorry to hear that, it really sucks :(

[scoutfam]

OMG, Dude I am so sorry that happened. I will check the local pull a part and see if we can find a better drive shaft for you........ I have the measurements form doing the work I may get lucky.

[Funrover]

Damn.. that sucks..

[scout man]

OMG, Dude I am so sorry that happened. I will check the local pull a part and see if we can find a better drive shaft for you........ I have the measurements form doing the work I may get lucky.

Yea, I am going to look around here too. I can't totally decide if thats the issue, but it seems to be the most logical starting point. Never hurts to have another shaft anyways. Got some flex today on the ramp behind the shop where I work. Pretty happy with it, but I do have tire issues. Nothing some width cant solve though. Rear tire rubs the inside of the wheelwell and the exhaust pipe when flexed. But I got my front tire about 3 feet up or so with everything else still on the ground with no problem. Just need to tackle all these other problems now, like the gas tank, brakes, reweld the exhaust, switch out those shackles, put the bumper on, check all the fluids... it never ends!

[WINKY]

damn dude that sux!!!!

[scout man]

damn dude that sux!!!!
Yea, it does. But sh*t happens. Can't sweat the small stuff right? Fortunately the jeep it hit is there to get some major work done anyways. Hit the bumper, which is getting replaced already, but it also caught the corner of the body, which will take some body shop work and paint. I guess it just goes to show that a scout can crush a jeep anyday!!!

[Brody]

Well I was at 4 Wheel Parts off of I70 and Peoria, too. Too bad that you didn't run into mine...maybe...I would have laughed at the damage on mine (probably paint), but running into mine might've damaged yours more than you would have liked. Bottom line: you wouldn't have had to pay me any$$

Sorry to hear about this problem...I hate stuff like that when it happens.

[scout man]

So good news and bad news of the the whole runaway scout incident. The bad news is the first quote for the repair came in at $2,200. The good news, however, is that my insurance company is covering the damage 100% with no deductible on my end! Maybe I can afford some new scout parts after all!

[scoutfam]

Glad to here it. Johanna and I were worried about ya :)

[scout man]

I was glad to hear it too! No need to worry though. Probably one of the few times I have been really thankful for insurance. The other thing that really saved me was the fact that there was no driver in either vehicle. According to the insurance company that is different than an accident, and falls more into the category of property damage! Hopefully my rates dont go up too much, but I think it will be alright.

[Chris]

You should be fine, it's rare for companies to raise rates for something like this. I know because my truck rolled down my kids driveway into a neighbors truck causing $1500+ damage. That's what insurance is for, stuff happens.

[WINKY]

dont count the chickens before they hatch but i got muh finger crossed!

[Patrolman]

Glad that the insurance worked out. One of the rare times that they decide to pony up without a fight it sounds like.

If you decide to get new rims, let me know. I might be interested in a spare set if you want to sell off yours.

[scout man]

Glad that the insurance worked out. One of the rare times that they decide to pony up without a fight it sounds like.

If you decide to get new rims, let me know. I might be interested in a spare set if you want to sell off yours.

Well, I'm going to have to get some new ones pretty soon here. I am sure we could work something out to get you my old ones. They are 15x8 with about 3.75" backspacing... but they are stock, so obviously they should work on your stock rig. I'll let you know. Decided I can't really do any wheeling without new wheels though, to much rubbing and whatnot, would end up destroying my tires. I also have some ~28 inch tires for sale, although if I remember correctly you do have some form of lift and larger tires on your rig. But while we are talking scout parts, I did strip out a junkyard scout one day and have piles of door handles, window cranks, arm rests, dash trim, gauges, Heater contoller, and all just about anything removable from the inside of a scout. If you ever need anything let me know.

[Patrolman]

I stripped out a 74 several years ago so already have a lot of interior parts, hood, grille, 1/2 cab, lights, etc. Don't think there is anything I need ASAP.

My Scout has a 2" suspension lift and 1" longer shackles. Ran 31's on it for a long time and worked great. Got a 2" body lift and hasn't gotten larger tires. Still thinking of trying 33's but want to keep the 31's on the current rims in case I change my mind. Not in a hurry for the rims as the Scout it parked for now. It is low on the list of priorities right now.

[scout man]

More changes today! I actually got a lot accomplished, considering I also worked most of the day and have to go back at 11 tonight. I bought my new wheels and had them mounted, and they totally eliminated the steering issues in the front axle. Not sure about the flex clearance issues in the rear yet, but I think it will be fine. Ill drive it to work when I go in tonight and test it on the ramp in the back. Then I switched over to the 1 inch lift shackles that Gary gave me and it did a great job of leveling the rig front to back, and eliminates the slight clearance issues I had with the fenders in the rear. I also pulled off the stock bumper and put on the aftermarket one that came of the back of Gary's rig. It wasn't an easy bolt on, but only required drilling 4 new holes, not the end of the world. Actually the hardest part was getting the stock bumper off.
Then things took a turn for the worse. I was driving home and hit a bump in the road and broke my upper shock mount on the front drivers side. It also smashed up by brand new Rancho shock, and punctured the reservoir so it will have to be replaced. It has a lifetime warrantee, but I highly doubt it will cover this, but we will see. Below are some pics of the rear bumper, new wheels, and the smashed up shock. Ill take some pics of the flex tonight, and see if I can get some better pics, since these ones kind of suck. But all and all it was a good day for the scout build, and I am getting happier with it all the time. Planning to make the run tomorrow to see how it works in the real world.

[Brody]

What the pictures show looks great! The back set on the wheels looks like it will work just fine, too.

Too bad about about the shock mount and shock..I'll bet that the Rancho get warrantied...Good thing you don't have Bilstiens cause they sure as hell don't..not even if the shocks start leaking like pigs...Ranchos were from 4 Wheel Parts, right?

[Haku]

Steve won't be back from a road gig for work till Monday, but needless to say there are some more issues with the rig. He broke his front driveshaft at the double cardon due to binding. A couple other issues too, which I'll let him go into more. We still had a great day and a lot of fun. Its good that we are getting stuff ironed out though.

JH

[Chris]

Nothing like getting it on the trail to find weak points. Nice to finally meet Steve and see the Scout. I'm looking for ward to seeing it for another shakedown now that these things are getting ironed out.

[scoutfam]

Looks like we need to rethink the upper shock mount. I have lots of stuff around so when you get a chance bring it over and we can figure out something different. It is possible that the travel of your new shocks it being stopped by the shock mounts and we need to lower them so that they are not being pulled or pushed. or maybe I just missed a weld... We will measure and see for sure. If we need to come up with a complete different mount then we will.......

[WINKY]

When i looked at his suspension, his shocks were limiting the extension (i think) but they dere acting as bumpstops. Thus the breakage on the one i presume.

[Dan]

When i looked at his suspension, his shocks were limiting the extension (i think) but they dere acting as bumpstops. Thus the breakage on the one i presume.

I tend to agree. I was behind Steve on the trail a bit and thought he had good articulation for the most part and wondered about the shock length. They seemed a little short for the travel that look like he could acheive. Of course, that's just from a guy sitting in a truck 50 feet away....

[Chris]

Hmm, when I looked I didn't see any shock mounts!

[Haku]

I don't think it was shock articulation that did it, since it happened on flat road before he really took it out wheeling. He did do some flexing on the ramps, but the final failure was on the road on his way home after putting the bumper and longer shackles on at my place.

Those shocks might be limiting upward travel, but I think they are long enough that they aren't limiting droop. I would guess that we need to flex it with the shocks removed and do some measuring to be sure.

They have been keeping him fairly busy at work lately, so I'll let him chime in on when he wants to come down there to suss things out.

JH

[Brody]

When i looked at his suspension, his shocks were limiting the extension (i think) but they dere acting as bumpstops. Thus the breakage on the one i presume.

See my posted cheap fix for the shock as bumpstop thing in the 'cheap fixes' part of the forum...It is a cheap and quick fix, acts as a bit of a safety factor to keep your shock from bottoming out (on compression)and has been in that section for over a year....

[scout man]

What the pictures show looks great! The back set on the wheels looks like it will work just fine, too.

Too bad about about the shock mount and shock..I'll bet that the Rancho get warrantied...Good thing you don't have Bilstiens cause they sure as hell don't..not even if the shocks start leaking like pigs...Ranchos were from 4 Wheel Parts, right?

Picked them up at Pep Boys.

[scout man]

I don't think it was shock articulation that did it, since it happened on flat road before he really took it out wheeling. He did do some flexing on the ramps, but the final failure was on the road on his way home after putting the bumper and longer shackles on at my place.

Those shocks might be limiting upward travel, but I think they are long enough that they aren't limiting droop. I would guess that we need to flex it with the shocks removed and do some measuring to be sure.

They have been keeping him fairly busy at work lately, so I'll let him chime in on when he wants to come down there to suss things out.

JH


I am back, I did survive. I will go in more detail on stuff for a little bit tonight. Going to run out and visit with a friend for dinner, then the test of the night is Taxes and the scout... unfortunately I cant keep letting the scout get in the way of the taxes anymore!

[scoutfam]

Just mailed mine out tonight......... let me know when you want to get together and we can figure out the bugs and get them fixed up. If Rancho doesn't get you a new shock and the one is shot I will of course pop for a replacement. Always game for a new method of doing things

[scout man]

So, here is a rundown of my current adventures with the scout.

Things I am happy with:

I think I am really happy with the height right now. Its tall enough to not really have ground clearance issues, but its not really too tall so that I don't feel stable.

The thing is mostly solid. It is beastly, sturdy vehicle, and I very much like that.

Although it is not the most attractive, I really like the way it looks... maybe I am weird.


Things that need some attention:

Front shocks need some work. Either moving the mounts, adding back in the bumpstops, or simply reattaching the broken mount, which ever seems to be the best course when I really dig into it.

I'm thinking of removing a leaf all the way around so soften the ride a bit. It is still a bit bonejarring and it does have an add a leaf in the rear that could go, plus probably pull a leaf from the front also.

Both drive shafts need some attention. Bad vibration in the rear, and the front is, well, nonexistant at the moment.

Need to do some fender trimming. Tires rub when flexed. Also need to rebuild body mounts and replace body bushings all around.

I am really not happy with the current tires. Love the size, but no where near the traction I had before. Hopefully they can make it through the summer though, as they clearly do not work well in snow, but when its dry I think it should be decent.

Brakes need SERIOUS attention. Not only do they not work well, but they are now loosing pressure too.

Gas tank needs some patching, it apparently leaks... as does every other fluid reservoir.

Um, a smart move in the very near future would be seatbelts. I am aware of the impending lectures, but there are currently no seatbelts at all in the vehicle. Need to weld in a seat belt bar and go to a harness.

Finish building the roll cage, needs more front end protection.



That is the stuff that I consider pretty immediate needs. Unfotunatelly the repair list is way longer than the things I am happy with list, but that will change shortly. Just need some more cash flow for it.

[scout man]

Just mailed mine out tonight......... let me know when you want to get together and we can figure out the bugs and get them fixed up. If Rancho doesn't get you a new shock and the one is shot I will of course pop for a replacement. Always game for a new method of doing things

I might be available Thursday to check some if this out. I will keep you posted.

[scoutfam]

I might be available Thursday to check some if this out. I will keep you posted.
No worries brother. We will measure the shock length and I seem to remember you saying that they were the same part number as the original so we may just need to go back to the original mount on top......... What happened to the front d shaft? did you take it out or is there two much vibration..... I am really concerned with the 35s maybe the powers that be are right and if you want 35s you need to change a bunch or things start going wrong...... Not sure but we will get to the bottom of all the bugs and I will give you my best..... for what that is worth.....;)

[scout man]

No worries brother. We will measure the shock length and I seem to remember you saying that they were the same part number as the original so we may just need to go back to the original mount on top......... What happened to the front d shaft? did you take it out or is there two much vibration..... I am really concerned with the 35s maybe the powers that be are right and if you want 35s you need to change a bunch or things start going wrong...... Not sure but we will get to the bottom of all the bugs and I will give you my best..... for what that is worth.....;)

No, these shocks are 3 inches longer than stock. The ones they tried to tell me are the equivalent of yours were the stock sized ones.

[scoutfam]

Ok, either way we will measure and redo what ever needs be and then go from there.....

[scout man]

The issue with the drive shaft wasnt a torque issue, it was a binding issue. There was a very noticeable pop everytime it rotated, and the slip yoke was sliding in and out every rotation due to a binding at the CV.

[scoutfam]

maybe a bad CV..... the pull a part here has a bunch or go to the one you got it from and tell them you want an exchange.. The middle of the CV is notorious for getting chewed. Not sure if the 2 are the same company in other words. They don't have to know that it was modified...... and they won't check either..... while you are there see if you can get the correct yoke that is always better than modification in my book. you wheel a bit harder than I do. As for the rest I have lots of steel and welding rod we can gusset and strengthen all that needs be. I have some extra parts for you to help ease the pain of breakage maybe some brake rotors, one of which is brand new, and calipers might take some of the sting out.... Still sorry that there are so many bugs though..... the stiffer springs might just take a while to soften since they are now being used basicly backwards form original.. I know that my ride has softened over the year after my SOA.

[scout man]

Glad that the insurance worked out. One of the rare times that they decide to pony up without a fight it sounds like.

If you decide to get new rims, let me know. I might be interested in a spare set if you want to sell off yours.

Patrolman, I forgot to mention that those wheels are now available. Got my ones with smaller backspacing and dont plan to switch back, so they are all yours if you want them. I have 4 sitting loose right now, and one with a tire mounted that I will gladly break off if you want all 5. Its on the list to do anyways, just need some motivation. You still interested?

[scout man]

So I had the day off for the first time in a while. Decided I really needed to not work on the scout, since I have tons to do around the house, and really just needed to take most of the day to rest...

So here is what I got done on the scout today... :D


Started the day with 3 cans of degreaser, and powerwashed the whole thing, inside and out. Got a ton of oil residue off the undercarrage, though it could probably use a few more cans.

After that I tackled my turn signals. Rear right side was out, seemed to happen about the time I smashed that jeep :oops:. Anyways, replaced all the rear lights, since evidently most of them were not working.

Next issue on the list was the horn. It had not worked since I bought it. A while back I was at the junkyard and picked up some horns, since I wasnt sure it even had one anymore, then today I started by tearing the steering wheel apart to get to the horn button, which all checked out ok. Next I pulled the front headlight out to see if there was a horn behind it, and there was. Next I had a genius idea and checked the fuse box, changed out the blown fuse that said "horn" above it, and I now have a functioning horn! :bang:

Last on the list for today (which was all about the small neglected projects, not the real issues) was my CB antena. Turns out a big reason it wasnt working real well on the blackhawk run would be the fact that it was no longer plugged into the antena. Fixed that issue and I can now receive signal! Broadcasting is still a slight issue. It works, but not well. Voice sounds really crackly and hard to understand. I know its not the mic, because i tried 2 with the same result. I think the issue may still be with the antena. Its a rather stupid design that does not receive the coax end, you have to cut that off and splice the core wire into the antena, then ground the shield. But, I may just need a new CB, as I just found this one laying around, and that could very well be the reason it wasnt being used anyways.

Hopefully next week I can tackle the large issues, such as brakes, driveline, and gas tank.

[scoutfam]

Hopefully next week I can tackle the large issues, such as brakes, driveline, and gas tank.[/QUOTE]

If you want the extra and in really good shape rotors that I have on the spare axle they are yours I just don't have any time to mess with them and I don't want them to go to waste.......... One is new the other is partly used but both are in good shape..... Just let me know and they are yours....

[scout man]

I'll take them!! I need to make a run down there sometime anyways. Just need to find a full day off, which never seems to come. Might be a couple weeks still. But I'll give you a call at some point.

[Brody]

Good to see that a build is progressing...however fast. These threads are great if for no other reason that for when you start getting discouraged about stuff not getting done, you can always go back and see that that stuff really has been getting done. I know that I get used to whatever I have done to my rig and forget what it was before...still seems to go slow...

[scout man]

1. Shock mount fixed. Gary rewelded it for me nice and solid, and also did a great job rewelding the tow hook on the front

2. Rear brakes work MUCH better when there is fluid in the lines and reservoir, but still need pads all around. Picked up some rotors from Gary also. I think I am going to need to switch out the master cylinder though, brakes definitely lose pressure from time to time.

3. Need to cut some nice thick metal to use as shims on the drivers side of both axles. Pretty serious lean going on. Then fix the leak in fuel tank.

4. Out of town Wednesday through Saturday, so no more work getting done. Plus I will have to sort through thousands of new threads when I get back!

[WINKY]

1. ******************** and also did a great job rewelding the tow hook on the front


that i ripped off your rig...Sorry...LMAO:rolleyes:

[scout man]

that i ripped off your rig...Sorry...LMAO:rolleyes:

Well its ready for the next time! Bring it on Randy!

[WINKY]

OH ITS BROUGHTEN...!!! hahahahaha:lol:

[scout man]

actually, if it breaks again it wont be the hook, it will be the entire steel tubing that is the front of my reverse shackle. Long story short, if you pull it off again I hope we have enough guys to lift it into the back of Brutus. And unfortunately it weighs a bit more than a sammy.

[Roostercruiser]

DEEZLS all talk :lol::lol::lol:

[Brody]

3. Need to cut some nice thick metal to use as shims on the drivers side of both axles. Pretty serious lean going on. Then fix the leak in fuel tank.

I have about an 8" square chunk of 1/2" stock you are more than welcome to if we can figure a way to hook up that works...PM me if it'll help out..I am up in Arvada, but LaDawn works at Swedish Hospital off of Hampden and Logan on Mondays as a volunteer from 8AM until noon and I can send it with her. I believe she works at the reception desk in the front...

[scout man]

brody,
I think I have the metal I need, more just need to manage to cut it. All I really have is a grinder with a cutting disk, but hopefully I can cut that thick with it. Other than that I think I am just going to cut it, drill a hole in the middle, then weld it to the axle perch. Thanks for the offer though, and I will let you know if I think I will end up needing it. I pulled an old flat-iron trailer hitch off the back, and I think that might be exactly the metal I need, but we will see.

[scout man]

stumbled across some nice flexy pics I forgot to post. I think these were right after the soa, and probably with the broken shock.

ok, so one pic isnt so much flexy, but not a bad 2 wheel drive climb.

[WINKY]

did you ever put bumpstops on the axles to frame, if not your going to tear the shock mounts off again as they arent meant to "stop" axle travel... if you didnt know already... you can smack me later :rolleyes:

[Brody]

Yeah...let me know on the metal. I can get some 3/8" or 1/4" stuff to you, too. What I don't have, I can probably get free from Doug at Attitude Steel.Wish I had a easy way to cut the 1/2", but it is just too small to use the cut off saw on. You want, I can take a look when I am at Attitude in the next couple of days and see what they have in the way of 2 1/2 wide stuff...probably be a freebie if I can find small pieces...gotta look for some slider stock anyway...just PM me on this...

Just remembered I have some 1/2" thick (in the center) overload leaves from a Yota, 2 1/2" wide with a hole for the center pin. These are just about worthless to anyone as they limit flex so much. Matter of fact, I have quite a few leaf spring chunks lying about with a center pin hole, so I can offer 1/2" and a heavy 1/4" selection... Cutting these on the cut off saw goes really quickly and easily due to the fact they are long enough to hold..Call or PM with the length and I'll be happy to do this for you.

303-507-3066 Pete

[scout man]

Hey Pete. Thanks for the offer! I think I will take you up on the leafs. I am at the airport headed out of town right now, so ill have to get you measurements when I get back on Sunday.

[Brody]

No problem and easy for me to cut, too. The earlier the better Sunday as it would be best for me to cut them Sunday, but I can do it early Monday AM before LaDawn heads out to work. Hooking up with her at Swedish would probably be the best. Just let me know. My numbers are:

303-507-3066 Cell
303-761-4818 Home

[scout man]

Alright. I land Saturday night so that shouldn't be a problem. I will probably just come get them from you Sunday. I too work on Monday.

[Funrover]

Nice pics.. couple show just how huge that rig truely is.

[Brody]

Alright. I land Saturday night so that shouldn't be a problem. I will probably just come get them from you Sunday. I too work on Monday.

You want me to just measure my spring perch length and cut them a 1/2" longer than that, with the hole centered? I have some small leaf springs that are 1/4-5/16 thick and the two overloads that are roughly 1/2". I was planning on cutting 2 each, and can either do it when you come over or before hand.

Reason I am mentioning this is that I don't for sure know what Sunday's schedule is going to be. If I can get them cut beforehand, I can always leave them out...Anyway, let me know..Just glad to help ...

[scout man]

Sure brody. I think I actually need about 3/4 inch total, so I am think I might use the 1/2 inch and 1/4 inch and weld them together. If you want to go ahead and cut them that works for me. Thanks for your help!

[Brody]

Sure brody. I think I actually need about 3/4 inch total, so I am think I might use the 1/2 inch and 1/4 inch and weld them together. If you want to go ahead and cut them that works for me. Thanks for your help!

Since this is spring steel, I don't know how much good the welding is going to do. They are set up for leaf spring bolts, which is the way I would go. NAPA has these, but few other places do. Anyway, I will go ahead and cut some a little longer than the perches on my heap and have them ready for you.

[scout man]

Ah, that makes a ton of sense brody. I was still thinking shimming off of the perch, but it definitely takes a lot more sense to just build down on the leaf springs like that than to build up in the perch.

[Brody]

I left four 1/4x4 1/2" pieces, two 1/2x 4 1/2" pieces and two 6 degree shims on my porch for you. I sent both a PM and an e mail with my address, directions and phone number.

I don't know if you are coming by today or tomorrow, but we maybe gone today. I will be home all day tomorrow and I can always send them out with LaDawn when she goes to work at Swedish..

[scout man]

Picked up some stuff at the junkyard today. Got a new brake setup (see http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36595#post36595). I also picked up some new doors. The plan is to make them into half doors to replicate the original SSII look (see pic below) Normally on the SSII's it would be either metal or fiberglass permanentally installed as a body pannel. My intention is to make these doors into the same look, but to still keep them functional as doors. There is two reasons for this... 1) I can very easily swap between my original doors, and the new half doors for summer/winter weather. 2) by allowing this to still function as a door, it makes access into the backseat a lot easier. I intend to shave all the handles and everything so from the outside it does not look like a door, and just have one door handle somewhere on the inside to still be able to open the door. It will be a project, but I think it could turn out pretty cool in the end.

[scoutfam]

Sounds cool I have seen a scout with the half doors and they are pretty sweet in the summer. Does sound like a cool project though

[Patrolman]

I saw someone else make a similar style door. It is really cool to do!

[scout man]

yea, I think it will turn out well. Unfortunately it will be on the back burner for a while. Way to many other more important projects, such as finishing the brake replacement and patching the gas tank. But I couldn't pass up a pair of doors that were in excellent condition! Because clearly that is an important thing for a set of doors that are going to be chopped up, mutilated, and then repainted!!!

[Brody]

At our fender trimming thing, Danny did a sweet job on cutting down some doors he had to do the same thing. He used a pattern he had gotten from Jeff, I think, and cut one side of the door, then folded the other piece over to be welded as the cap. A really quick and easy was to get the bulk of the cover/cap done without a bunch of drama. Of course it depends a great deal on the bends on the door, etc...but it is a thought...

[scout man]

At our fender trimming thing, Danny did a sweet job on cutting down some doors he had to do the same thing. He used a pattern he had gotten from Jeff, I think, and cut one side of the door, then folded the other piece over to be welded as the cap. A really quick and easy was to get the bulk of the cover/cap done without a bunch of drama. Of course it depends a great deal on the bends on the door, etc...but it is a thought...

It is a thought. Not sure if it will work so well though with my design since it will be more of a curved cut. might try for it though. I had two thoughts. One was that the inside door liner is metal, and since I am chopping the doors anyways I may try to use that metal to finish the gaps. But more likely I will just pic up some sheet metal, cut a strip, and weld it in. Either way I will probably need more metal. I either have the gap to fill in, or the inside of the doors to close up. We will see when the time comes.

[scout man]

So I threw my stock front drive shaft back in today, just to see how it would do. I knew it would vibrate, but didnt know how much and I was hoping I could get a couple trail runs out of it. It actually did half way decent a speeds through the parking lot, and functioned fine when putting some torque on it. However, I had a rather strange issue. When I turn in 4-wheel drive my inside tire vibrates really badly, and everything binds up. I also get some tire chirping. Now I realize 4-wheel drive changes turning, but this is definitely more than that. Especially since I am unlocked front and rear, there is a far more serious issue here. Something in that front shaft still. I know I need to get another CV and have it professionally resleeved, but before I do that I would like to figure out why I keep having weird issues. Mostly, if it is a length issue, I want to figure it out before I pay to have a shaft made. The stock shaft and the CV I blew out are both within 1/2 inch of each other in length. Any thoughts??

[WINKY]

jack the whole front end up by the axle and start turning stuff by hand and have someone steer lock to lock and find the bind..?

[scoutfam]

So I threw my stock front drive shaft back in today, just to see how it would do. I knew it would vibrate, but didnt know how much and I was hoping I could get a couple trail runs out of it. It actually did half way decent a speeds through the parking lot, and functioned fine when putting some torque on it. However, I had a rather strange issue. When I turn in 4-wheel drive my inside tire vibrates really badly, and everything binds up. I also get some tire chirping. Now I realize 4-wheel drive changes turning, but this is definitely more than that. Especially since I am unlocked front and rear, there is a far more serious issue here. Something in that front shaft still. I know I need to get another CV and have it professionally resleeved, but before I do that I would like to figure out why I keep having weird issues. Mostly, if it is a length issue, I want to figure it out before I pay to have a shaft made. The stock shaft and the CV I blew out are both within 1/2 inch of each other in length. Any thoughts??
When you say that you are unlocked you are refering to lockers like ARB I think. My scout does not turn well in 4wheel on dry pavement. If it it snowing or such and I am pulling into a space in a parking lot I will put it back in 2 wheel. In the dirt the front has room to spin a bit so it is not a problem but on dry pavement and in 4x4 I really don't like to turn the wheels more than half way. It was that way from day one. try locking the hubs and turn in 2wd then bump it into 4wd if the chip and chug is consistant in either direction then it is just the nature of the beast. this is one of the reasons that they don't recomend any kind of auto locker in the front because it will fight you to go straight. the vibration in the stocker shaft is the reason for the CV.... simply put the stocker is meant to be set up with equal and opposite angles so now that the diff is pointed at the t case they put a single on the diff side and an double on the t case side, the double is designed to be set up that way. some go as far as to set up a double double for extreme angles but I don't think you will need that unless you go for lift beyond the stock springs. You can get a long yoke from woods and they also sell the 10 spline input yoke for the t case. I just read a bit more and when you say that it vibrates do you mean like a chatter or a chug. If it is a chatter or rattle it could be the spider gears binding as well. We didn't open the diff did we? you may want to do what was suggested and see if it binds witht he diff cover off.

[scout man]

When you say that you are unlocked you are refering to lockers like ARB I think. My scout does not turn well in 4wheel on dry pavement. If it it snowing or such and I am pulling into a space in a parking lot I will put it back in 2 wheel. In the dirt the front has room to spin a bit so it is not a problem but on dry pavement and in 4x4 I really don't like to turn the wheels more than half way. It was that way from day one. try locking the hubs and turn in 2wd then bump it into 4wd if the chip and chug is consistant in either direction then it is just the nature of the beast. this is one of the reasons that they don't recomend any kind of auto locker in the front because it will fight you to go straight. the vibration in the stocker shaft is the reason for the CV.... simply put the stocker is meant to be set up with equal and opposite angles so now that the diff is pointed at the t case they put a single on the diff side and an double on the t case side, the double is designed to be set up that way. some go as far as to set up a double double for extreme angles but I don't think you will need that unless you go for lift beyond the stock springs. You can get a long yoke from woods and they also sell the 10 spline input yoke for the t case. I just read a bit more and when you say that it vibrates do you mean like a chatter or a chug. If it is a chatter or rattle it could be the spider gears binding as well. We didn't open the diff did we? you may want to do what was suggested and see if it binds witht he diff cover off.

well, I can very distinctly tell what vibration is the drive shaft. That one does not worry me at all, because I can tell thats the issue and I knew it would happen anyways. I was just hoping it would work enough to get me on a trail or two. The thing with the steering that worries me a lot is when turned hard in 4-wheel drive I can actually see my tire flexing in and out around my wheel, which means something is shifting hard side to side. Also, when turned hard, there is a significant surge in power which im guessing correlates directly to the rotation of the drive shaft. For example, if idling, with a hard left turn in 4x4, the truck will roll forward with the idle, then there will be enough resistance to stop the scout completely. If you hit the gas and push through it, you see the tire wobble, then it will roll again about the same distance then stop. I am not sure if any of this is making sense, but I dont think I ever had any kind of an issue with this with when it was stock, I am guessing it all goes back to the drive shaft though, and I just need to have time to pull a new CV and have it re-shafted to the right size. Hopefully that will solve all the problems. just comes down to time and money I guess. I hope this post made at least a little bit of sense!

[scoutfam]

Yeah, what you are saying makes perfect sense. It is a tough one to trouble shoot with out seeing it in action. Let me know what you find out. I will do some checking on binder planet and see what the real scout gurus have to say :D
give this thread a try and it might explain some of what you are feeling

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63695&highlight=turning+4wd

[Haku]

Seems to me you need to find a Scout Guru in Colorado to take it down to and just have him/her look it over and tell you what is going wrong. Knowing how hard you push stuff, this rig needs to be built for toughness. Might get some answers that are hard to hear financially, but if you are really planning on taking this thing to some of the harder trails it needs to be built for it.

The wheel wobble thing also makes me think there might be something screwy with the steering geometry, mostly with the toe in/out. Might have a look at that. I'll let you know how tomorrow goes and see if Friday will work for doing some more tinkering with your rig.

JH

[scoutfam]

Seems to me you need to find a Scout Guru in Colorado to take it down to and just have him/her look it over and tell you what is going wrong. Knowing how hard you push stuff, this rig needs to be built for toughness. Might get some answers that are hard to hear financially, but if you are really planning on taking this thing to some of the harder trails it needs to be built for it.

The wheel wobble thing also makes me think there might be something screwy with the steering geometry, mostly with the toe in/out. Might have a look at that. I'll let you know how tomorrow goes and see if Friday will work for doing some more tinkering with your rig.

JH
I know that in this end of town D&C extreme are the real scout gurus they have been doing some crazy things with scouts for years.

[scout man]

Seems to me you need to find a Scout Guru in Colorado to take it down to and just have him/her look it over and tell you what is going wrong. Knowing how hard you push stuff, this rig needs to be built for toughness. Might get some answers that are hard to hear financially, but if you are really planning on taking this thing to some of the harder trails it needs to be built for it.

The wheel wobble thing also makes me think there might be something screwy with the steering geometry, mostly with the toe in/out. Might have a look at that. I'll let you know how tomorrow goes and see if Friday will work for doing some more tinkering with your rig.

JH


its only an issue it 4-wheel drive though. Other than that everything is great.

[Brody]

well, I can very distinctly tell what vibration is the drive shaft. That one does not worry me at all, because I can tell thats the issue and I knew it would happen anyways. I was just hoping it would work enough to get me on a trail or two. The thing with the steering that worries me a lot is when turned hard in 4-wheel drive I can actually see my tire flexing in and out around my wheel, which means something is shifting hard side to side. Also, when turned hard, there is a significant surge in power which im guessing correlates directly to the rotation of the drive shaft. For example, if idling, with a hard left turn in 4x4, the truck will roll forward with the idle, then there will be enough resistance to stop the scout completely. If you hit the gas and push through it, you see the tire wobble, then it will roll again about the same distance then stop. I am not sure if any of this is making sense, but I dont think I ever had any kind of an issue with this with when it was stock, I am guessing it all goes back to the drive shaft though, and I just need to have time to pull a new CV and have it re-shafted to the right size. Hopefully that will solve all the problems. just comes down to time and money I guess. I hope this post made at least a little bit of sense!

There were a bunch of loose drive shafts at Colorado Auto Parts day before yesterday. You can one for pretty cheap, Cardan or not. If you are going to get it re done, don't worry about it being bent. In fact, bent is usually cheaper as no one wants one.

If you need drive shaft work done, go to Englewood Drive Shaft, just north of Hampden and in the alley one block east of Broadway and one block south of the post office. Ask for either Bill (the young guy) or Bob (the older guy). Mention Front Range 4X4 or me, Pete Brody, and you will probably get it re shafted and balanced for around $100.

These guys rock, by the way. Their customer service is great, they all wheel so they know what you are looking for and they are just good people. A couple of us on the site have been using them for years and have never had an issue. All of my driveshafts on my current rig were done by them, as was my spare rear shaft. The latter was a junkyard special that I got for $10 with a good double Cardan and good yoke and U joint, but with a bent shaft. I got a heavy duty shaft and balnce for $100 even.

[scout man]

answer to the weird steering issue may be the rag joint. I did a 1 inch body lift now and I have slight binding in the rag joint. I think a little grinding will work as a temp fix till I can afford a Borgeson. I think the joint may have been the issue with the weird surge when I turn in 4 wheel drive. I still have a pretty serious issue with this. Tires chirp and wheels wobble when in 4 wheel, but Im hoping its just that joint. If I am in 2 wheel drive with hubs locked, there is no issue though, so It may be a difference of pressure on the joint when it is driving. Who knows.

Anyways... new front CV shaft today, works perfectly. No wobble at all. New CV transfer case yoke. New body bushings, plus 1 inch lift with new grade 8 bolts. Also upgraded rear bolts to 1/2 inch instead of the stock 7/16. It was a long busy day, and now I am exhausted, if you cant tell. So I'm off to bed! We will see how things really work on the trail tomorrow. Hopefully I dont blow out my rag joint.

[Brody]

answer to the weird steering issue may be the rag joint. I did a 1 inch body lift now and I have slight binding in the rag joint. I think a little grinding will work as a temp fix till I can afford a Borgeson. I think the joint may have been the issue with the weird surge when I turn in 4 wheel drive.

Hopefully I dont blow out my rag joint.

When I re did my 69 Bronco steering stuff, I got rid of my front rag joint and replaced it with a Borgeson joint. I sourced the Borgeson joint from another Bronco in a junkyard for around $5. All you have to do is worry about the diameter and the spline count on the shaft.

PSC has the Borgeson joints, BTW, if that is what you want to do, but since these seldom wear out, I think I would try for the junkyard ones myself and save $60

[scout man]

Picked up a tranny with a dana 20 attached the other day for $40. Started putting it in today, and knowing my scout, I planned on it taking at least twice as long as everyone said, and it was a good estimate. Josh and I today spent about 7 hours on it and managed to drop the old tranny and transfer case, and mate the old transfer case to the new tranny. That is it. Of course, we were working on grass, and had to run out and rent a tranny jack (none of our jacks would go tall enough.) Also, this was my first tranny job, so I expected it to take a while. Hopefully I will manage to get the new one put in tomorrow. Call or pm me if anyone is free to help, as josh is going to OCG, and I am not sure if I will have anyone else to help me out. Number is 314-303-9283, and if you pm me make sure you leave me your number, since I cant really pm back from my phone. I am completelly exhausted from today, so I am off to bed. Hopefully tomorrow I can say the tranny issue is fixed.

[4x4jsimps]

i have an interior cage in my scout its pretty simple but i do want to extend mine and make it more of an exo cage just for the added protection

[Brody]

i have an interior cage in my scout its pretty simple but i do want to extend mine and make it more of an exo cage just for the added protection

If you aren't set up to weld or bend tubing, PM me (Brody) or Sean (1 freaky1) and we will see what we can do to help you with the cage design you want.

[scout man]

tranny is in place and bolted. Nothing ever goes easy on this heap. Tommorrow I will hopefully finish running the wiring harness and tranny cooler lines and try it out. Assuming, that is, that I can get my d#mn ignition to unlock. I always avoid locking it, because it is very hard to unlock, but I locked it sitting at the trail head the other day so it would be harder to steal, and it worked, because even I had a really hard time stealing it :D. If I cant get it unlocked, I may just find a way to bypass it with a well placed toggle switch and a push button starter. It never ends.

[Patrolman]

At least the trans is in place. Hopefully you just had to wiggle it to get it lined up with the converter? I forgot about the cooler lines when I gave basic instructions. Details, details. Keep in mind that your first time doing anything takes 2x as long. Once you learn some "tricks" and where all the bolts are, it is a much easier process. Glad it is all together and nearly ready to roll! Just make sure you put in enough fluids! :)

[scout man]

The reason I couldnt get it in that last little bit was an alignment issue. The torque converter is notched, and the corresponding pins on the tranny were not lining up. I had to pull the tranny back off and short the starter solenoid to turn the torque converter to the right position, then it basically just slipped right in. I'm intending to head over there today and try to finish it up, and some other projects, but I am just so sick of being covered in tranny fluid and crawling under that thing that I am not sure i will make it today. We will see.

[Patrolman]

I understand completely. Glad it all slipped together. Tomorrow is supposed to be 52 and rain all day. Yuck. Today is supposed to be cooler and possible rain as well. Not good weather to be working in but beats being on a rocky slope in the mud! Hope everything else wraps up easily.

[WINKY]

congrats man!!!

[4x4jsimps]

If you aren't set up to weld or bend tubing, PM me (Brody) or Sean (1 freaky1) and we will see what we can do to help you with the cage design you want.

yea thanks that would be great let me come up with some ideas and i will let you know.

[Patrolman]

Since the 727 won't go into reverse, it is also possible that there is a band adjustment needed. Some links to consider:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-763320.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=sEurXUHdZnMC&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=727+band+adjustment+reverse&source=bl&ots=JQm0wjX8yn&sig=SAX-R_hwcObqwgcKsx1s4J28EYk&hl=en&ei=MWokSre0BtrEmQee7NyyCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#PPA66,M1

[scout man]

Thanks for the links Jeff. For those who havn't already figured it out, I put the new tranny in and everything works fine, except there is no reverse.

The symptoms:

Tranny seems to go into reverse. Audible click from the tranny, and vehicle surges backwards slightly.

When you hit the gas, it acts as though it is in neutral.

No reverse lights.

Cable adjustment does not seem to be the issue.

Tranny housing gets warm, but tranny cooler line do not (didnt run THAT long tho)

Anyone have any other thoughts? I am really really hoping I dont have to pull this tranny and do it all over again. :bang::bang::bang::bang:

[Patrolman]

Based on what I read and what I understand, I would say adjustment in the bands won't hurt. At least make sure they are correctly adjusted. Easy enough to do when dropping the pan. Also, change the filter and maybe change the fluid to make sure it is all flushed well? If you need more info on band adjustment, my dad is more familiar with the TF's than I am. Can try to get you in touch with him.

[Dan]

I rebuilt a 727 once...I think...too long ago to remember though. All trannys work off the same principles, though they have diff. ways to acheive them.

Typically a RWD auto trans has a low/reverse drum in the back part of the internal guts. This drum is held still by a low/reverse band when engaged in manual low or reverse. The band must be adjusted properly (as patrolman said) and the servo must also be moving to actuate it. If this tranny had a lot of miles on it and has sat for a while, it is possible that the servo or a valve in the valve body is sticking.

There are also a lot of trannys that had cold fluid issues meaning that they didn't behave properly until the fluid reached operating temperature. Ford C-6s for instance wouldn't go into reverse for a while until the fluid heated up and the stuck valve would unstick. The older the tranny, the more frequent this was. We used to grind a little angle on the reverse valve to help this problem.

I would jack up the rear axle with jack stands and make extra extra sure it is solid. Start up the truck and run it through the 3 forward gears. It will shift at funny times because of no real load on it, but basically make sure you have good solid shifts. If you have sloppy or mushy shifts, you probably have another problem. If shifrts feel good, you probably have a sticky valve or servo. After all the gears run through a few times, try reverse again...sometimes after a rebuild a tranny would have weird things going on, but after running through the gears a few times on the road, they would go away and never come back...?? just the way it is sometimes.

Oh, I just remembered; Some trannys also used a one way clutch back there, but I can't remember if it was used in 1st or Reverse gear....I just don't do this enough anymore...

I hope my ramblings help and not confuse... again this is what is typical for most rwd trannys not neccesarily true for your 727

[scout man]

wow, there was a ton of great info in there Dan. I'll have to try the jack stand trick tomorrow. Maybe I will get lucky for once and it will just unstick itself. It has sat for almost a year without being run, so maybe I will get lucky.

[Brody]

To add to what Dan said...and my memory is probably worse than his due to advanced age and a misspent youth...

My last automatic was in a 69 Bronco that I used a engine and auto trans from a Ford F150 in..which was quite a few years ago...but I remember having to do much the same as what Dan described, then getting the wheels back on the ground, holding my foot on the brake, and manually shifting through all the gears to get the fluid to all the right places.

As I remember, when an auto starts to go, it usually shows up in reverse gear first, with a delay before it actually starts to move being the sign that things aren't really going to well inside.

If this is a used tranny that you are dealing with, I would take the time to replace both the fluid and the filter simply as a matter of course, too.

My memory may be faulty on this as this was the last auto that I had and it was back in the mid to late 80's...

[Dan]

As I remember, when an auto starts to go, it usually shows up in reverse gear first, with a delay before it actually starts to move being the sign that things aren't really going to well inside....

You're right Pete... Actually what usually happens in older auto trans is a tarnish builds up in the valve body. The tarnish would cause valves to stick and often the reverse gear was the first one to show up. The trans at this point was basically fine, but with sticking valves, other valves would end up sticking too and allowing fluid leaks within the valve body. The leaks lead to less pressure on clutch packs which leads to slipping under load which leads to overheating which leads to a burnt up trans. Overheating is the #1 reason auto trans fail, but there is usually something that failed causing the trans to overheat (i.e. sticking valves)

The valve bodies were typically aluminum and the valves were usually steel and there was no real good way to clean them. You can't really hone the valvebody since the tarnish often seemed harder than the alum around it. hone too much and you screw up the clearences. I have tried to polish the steel valves, but it takes soo much time and in the end doesn't help much. The best thing to do is just replace the valve body with a new one.

I would actually wait on changing the fluid until you know more of what's going on. True enough, the fluid and filter should be changed before you put any real miles on it, but for diagnosis, the existing should be fine. If you get all forward gears on stands and still no reverse, drop the pan and investigate the servo and valve body and install new fluid/ filter at that time. If you get all gears, drive it around the block to see how it shifts, then change fluid/filter.

[scout man]

The good news:
The scout is now out of Jon's back yard, I drove it home today.

The bad news:
I only have 1st and 2nd gear... no third or reverse. The tranny shop said it was a clutch thats buried deep in the tranny, and would be a minimum $1,800 to fix it. I paid $40 for the tranny. Not happening.

So for now it is sitting in the parking lot, and I need to start watching my pennies a little closer, so I think I will be down for a while. Need to find another cheap 727 that has more promise of working, and someday I will swap that in again. At least it should go a lot fasternext time.

[Patrolman]

There was also that 4 speed that I posted.

Worst case, you could swap the insides from your old trans into this case. Fair amount of work, but no "parts" or $ involved. Just a fair amount of work and you get to inspect everything between the two as you swap the parts!

[scout man]

There was also that 4 speed that I posted.

Worst case, you could swap the insides from your old trans into this case. Fair amount of work, but no "parts" or $ involved. Just a fair amount of work and you get to inspect everything between the two as you swap the parts!

I have thought strongly about that, but I am really not sure that I have the knowledge to be able to do it.

Other than adding a clutch pedal, how much different is the manual tranny to hook up. How much would I have to change in my system in order to be able to go to a manual. Are those clutches cable driven??

[Patrolman]

I have thought strongly about that, but I am really not sure that I have the knowledge to be able to do it.

Other than adding a clutch pedal, how much different is the manual tranny to hook up. How much would I have to change in my system in order to be able to go to a manual. Are those clutches cable driven??

I have no idea what setup the manual trans is. I have never been in a manual trans Scout. I would assume they aren't a cable pedal, but likely hydraulic. That is easy enough. Could be a mechanical linkage too. You would need a different brake pedal, clutch pedal, different shifter (obviously), likely a different shield for the shifters. You also need a flywheel instead of a plate. May need a new starter, although I doubt it. Obviously need a clutch set. Not 100% sure the t-cases can swap directly. Also, if you have a shorter trans, you will need different driveshafts. Lots of work, but very reliable and easier to fix later.

[Patrolman]

Any update?

[Haku]

Steve is swamped at work and still saving up for the tranny rebuild. He found a guy that does it for $375 or something and completely rebuilds and replaces broken parts for the 727. Not sure if he'll be on today, but thats what I know for sure right now.

JH

[Patrolman]

Not sure if he has the time or interest, but there was a $500 Scout II on CL that looks like a parts vehicle really.
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1223395556.html
Runs and drives well apparently. If it is a 727, then it is a direct swap. Even if it is a 4 speed manual, all the parts would be there to swap over. Plus you get the winch/bumper and all the extra parts.

[Haku]

Is that the one with the 8274 winch on it? Definitely worth a look just for that and the bumper. Sounds like he wants to keep an Auto box, but I'll let him know about it. Not sure if he'll have time to look at it today, but its definitely worth a look. Buying and spending two days putting in a tranny that was dead was no fun, so I think he's leaning towards having something that definitely works. Its hard to know when you can't drive a vehicle first to see if it works. Thanks a bunch for the heads up though, I'm sure its appreciated.

JH

[Patrolman]

Yeah, that has the 8274. Sounds like it is driveable so it should be able to be tested out. I agree, better to buy one you know is good. :)

[scout man]

The biggest issue with buying that scout is I have no place to put it. I live in an apartment complex, and dont really have the money for it anyways. As it is right now, the scout is sitting in front of a friends place. I dont think he would like having 2 sitting there. I found a guy in the Springs that will rebuild the 727 I have for $375 with a 2 or 3 day turnaround. I am liking this approach because if it doesnt work still, it is more llikelly I can get something done about it. Basically I picked up this 727 I have now for $40, which it is looking like that at least got me a good tranny case. So a rebuild that is garanteed to work for a total of a little over 400 isnt too bad. I gotta run to work, but ill finish this thought later today...

[Patrolman]

Not to mention you can sell the t-case for $100 or more if you are little patient.

[scout man]

well, the $375 is if I give the guy a good case to rebuild. My original tranny does not work for this because the whole problem is the case. The new tranny, however, has a fine case on it. So I can spend the 375 to get that one working. Hopefully next week sometime I can pull it out and take it down there. Also need to order my borgeson joint before I really drive this thing at all. I am still using your rag joint, which I managed to tear up a bit coming down the trail. Soooo.... $375 for the rebuild, $100 for a borgeson, and some misc bolts and welding to fix up my front axle so it stops slipping and I should be good to go. Now I just need money....

Anyone know of any reason that I could not just use a grade 8 bolt in place of a leaf spring bolt?? Like, is there anything special about the leaf spring bolt that I am not aware of?

[Patrolman]

You can buy the leaf spring center pins. They are designed to fit in that location. I don't think a bolt/nut would fit.

I guess if you really wanted to learn to rebuild a trans, you could swap everything from your old trans into the new case, right? Sort of a big project to take on. Too bad my 727 won't fit your ride. It was a good trans with a good case. Came from an I6 though.

[scout man]

I've thought about swapping, but I dont know anything about auto trannys, and 1. I want it to actually be functional when its done, and 2. I want to be back on the trails sometime this summer, and if I did it myself I highly doubt I would make it.

[Patrolman]

I have a limited knowledge of auto trans. I can change fluids and filters. No biggie there. My dad has adjusted bands on 727's before. Apparently easy to do. I did watch an episode of Xtreme 4x4 where they rebuilt a TH350. Seemed to be pretty easy. Just haven't done an auto trans yet. Generally I am a manual trans guy and I can usually work on those.

[Patrolman]

Check out this one!

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1335894160.html

[Haku]

Steve is out of town in St. Louis visiting family, but I'm sure he'll see this when he gets back at the latest. I might actually text him and tell him to have a look and at least email the guy about it. If that all works, its definitely worth the money that guy is asking for. Getting it home might be a problem, but he has the space to store it now, so it should be good to go.

JH

[Patrolman]

It would easily tow on my dolly. Not exactly 100% legal I am sure without a body attached, but the law is likely grey in that area. At least is has wheels and everything else. And I have tow dolly lights, so that is covered.

Other option is to hack it all apart on site and load it up there. Frame is likely only worth scrap. Then it will all fit into a truck or onto a small trailer.

[scout man]

Thanks for posting that up! I didn't have internet for the last 4 days so I am just now seeing it, but it may be worth hauling in, choping up, and having the parts sitting around. Plus if the tranny works that is great!

[Haku]

I put a bid in on this, but haven't gotten a response yet. We'll see what happens.

JH

[Patrolman]

A bid?!?

[scout man]

an offer. He is trying to get it for my bday, which was last week. Hopefully it goes through. This definitely seems usefull, and I am sure i could create garage space for it.

[Haku]

Offer, bid.......same thing right? I emailed him and haven't gotten a response yet, so we'll see.

JH

[Patrolman]

Oh. I thought it was more of an auction style bid. Bidding in my mind is more than the starting price, where an offer is less. ;)

[Haku]

Oh. I thought it was more of an auction style bid. Bidding in my mind is more than the starting price, where an offer is less. ;)

No........I said the wrong thing. Definitely meant offer when I said bid. Still haven't heard from him, though I did get a random phone call this evening with no message sent. Not sure who it was, but oh well.

JH

[scout man]

No........I said the wrong thing. Definitely meant offer when I said bid. Still haven't heard from him, though I did get a random phone call this evening with no message sent. Not sure who it was, but oh well.

JH

it would be nice if we ended up getting it. I hate it when people wont call you back when you want to buy their stuff. Hell, I could have a tranny, a spare engine to rebuild, or for parts, and a frame to chop up. I am sure frame metal could be very usefull in brackets and what not.

[Brody]

What Adrian said about the spring bolt.

NAPA usually carries these, though the counter guys sometimes don't know this. Checker and Advanced Auto sometimes have them, but it is a standard NAPA item.

Both MidWest Spring and Denver Spring carry them, too. I would go to MidWest as the last time I went to Denver Spring, the collective IQ of everyone there, including the owner and counter people, seemed to be around ambient room temperature....68 degrees...and there were quite a few people working there.

[scoutfam]

You can use a bolt but the problem is that a center pin bolt has a round head. You would have to grind the hex head of the bolt down until it fit in the hole of the diff. Just a little more work but you can use it.:2c:

That is what I did when I added two leafs on each spring pack recently....

Just a tid bit for some ideas, this is what my mistress looks like under the front end now that I am finished with it ...... Not..... I will never be finished that is why she is my mistress.....
I do have the z link similar to this one sitting in the shop so next time you are this way stop in an it is yours...

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm30/scoutfam/100_5557.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm30/scoutfam/100_5556.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm30/scoutfam/100_5555.jpg

[scout man]

Looks good. I will have to stop by. I have been thinking a lot about my z-link, since after I replace my rag joint, which i will hopefully finish today, the z link will be the weakest link on my steering. That looks a lot beefier tho. I have been trying to look into high steer stuff for the scout, but there is very very little out there, and what is out there is out of my budget. Just one thing that I am sure you have already checked out,, but I noticed on my current z link, that when turned hard right and at full flex, the z-link hits the leaf springs a little. Just something to look for on the new one. I am off to the junkyard to hopefully pull a steering u-loint off to fab up a replacement for my rag joint. I don't even trust driving this thing around the block right now.

[scoutfam]

Looks good. I will have to stop by. I have been thinking a lot about my z-link, since after I replace my rag joint, which i will hopefully finish today, the z link will be the weakest link on my steering. That looks a lot beefier tho. I have been trying to look into high steer stuff for the scout, but there is very very little out there, and what is out there is out of my budget. Just one thing that I am sure you have already checked out,, but I noticed on my current z link, that when turned hard right and at full flex, the z-link hits the leaf springs a little. Just something to look for on the new one. I am off to the junkyard to hopefully pull a steering u-loint off to fab up a replacement for my rag joint. I don't even trust driving this thing around the block right now.
Last time I looked hi steer was in the neighborhood of $800

[scout man]

Finally fixed one of my problems today! Made myself a new steering joint. Went to the junk yard a grabbed a handfull of steering u-joints from a few vehicles. Ended up taking a shaft from a Jeep that had a joint at both ends. Shortened it significantly (about a foot), cut off the steering box end, as it was the wrong size, and welded on the correct end from a scout. On the steering shaft end, it was also a little different, but fortunately I was changing from the scout splined shaft, to the Jeep "oval" shaft, so all I had to do was a little grinding on my steering shaft, and it fits perfectly. No unwanted wiggle or rotation in any of the joints. Attached is some pics. The one on top is the new one, laying next to the stock rag joint and stock u-joint. Also a pic of it installed. Drove it around a while tonight, and it handles great on the road. I need to go somewhere and turn against a rock to see how it handles stressful turning, but seeing as I dont have a reverse gear right now, I didnt want to get too creative.

Those of you who have more experience in fabbing than I, please let me know if there is something dangerous to what I did. Everything looks safe to me, and everything is welded extremely solid. I will cerainly test it out a lot before hitting the trail, and before letting anyone else ride with me. As I said, it all looks good to me and I am comfortable, but please, if anyone has red flags going up right now, let me know. Thanks!

[Patrolman]

Not sure it is 100% the best solution, but it is FAR better than the rag joint! Congrats on a simple solution!

[scout man]

well, it cost me $10, vs the $110 plus shipping that I can't afford for a Borgesson joint. It feels solid to me, so if it functions under fire, I am happy. And yes, definitely better than the rag. I wasnt even happy driving it around the block anymore with that.

[Patrolman]

I think a couple of us found the Borgesson for $80 or so plus shipping. Will let you know when I finally order one.

[Haku]

The borgeson's depend on if you need one that has double u-joints or not. Most of the ones that Scout places sell seem to have the double u-joint, so that makes it more expensive. Seems to me that as long as the welds were well done and everything is straight, that this fix should work well. Again, I'm like Steve and a budding fab person, but seems like it should do a great job. Guess we'll see after some mock field trials. What specifically do you see as being "not 100%" on that Jeff. Just curious really.

JH

[Patrolman]

I figured a fix that was free of welds would be a 100% cure. That is desirable when it comes to steering parts. In any case, this is absolutely better than the rag joint setup, which is prone to failures. That was just a horrible design.

What is apparently best is something like this if you have $200:
http://www.anythingscout.com/part/3029-steering-joint-complete-upper-and-lower-joint-large

What I plan on using retains the original U-joint and only replaces the rag:
http://www.anythingscout.com/part/2992-steering-joint-large-spline-scout-ii
They can be found a bit cheaper if you shop around.

I applaud the work done to fab this fix. I would take the same route if I had the time and motivation. ;) Great job with the resources at hand!

[scout man]

I figured a fix that was free of welds would be a 100% cure. That is desirable when it comes to steering parts. In any case, this is absolutely better than the rag joint setup, which is prone to failures. That was just a horrible design.

What is apparently best is something like this if you have $200:
http://www.anythingscout.com/part/3029-steering-joint-complete-upper-and-lower-joint-large

What I plan on using retains the original U-joint and only replaces the rag:
http://www.anythingscout.com/part/2992-steering-joint-large-spline-scout-ii
They can be found a bit cheaper if you shop around.

I applaud the work done to fab this fix. I would take the same route if I had the time and motivation. ;) Great job with the resources at hand!


Thats about the only place I have seen them too. And I agree, a weld free setup would be best... but hell, a weld beats a hunk of rubber right? :D. Its a pretty good weld setup tho. used a chop saw to get to perfectly straight cuts (Perfect is used in the loose -garage metal working sense) and it is welded all the way around, and burned in pretty well. I honestly dont think i could brake it off if I tried. All the force on it should be rotational anyways, which means you are using the entire length of the weld for strength. we will see what happens when I put it through its paces.

[Patrolman]

You have power steering, right? If so, you would be really hard pressed to have enough rotational forces...

Plus, the rubber eventually deteriorates from time/exposure. The welds aren't susceptible t the same problems.

[scout man]

yup, power steering... Really good power steering too, turns really easily. I think the only way I would have a chance of creating that kind of force is If I was settled in between two rocks and cranking real hard... but at that I think my pump would give up first.

[Patrolman]

Slightly better prices here:

http://www.shopih.com/BORG-STRJNT-p-S5.html

[Patrolman]

yup, power steering... Really good power steering too, turns really easily. I think the only way I would have a chance of creating that kind of force is If I was settled in between two rocks and cranking real hard... but at that I think my pump would give up first.

Agreed. The SII has great power steering which is why it is used on other crawlers too. I think you are good to go!

[scout man]

I guess we will find out! I think I will still carry a rag joint setup just incase... not that that is much of a backup plan. Of course, with as many jeeps as there are at the junkyard, maybe I will stop by sometime and just grab another steering shaft and make another backup. Now that I have invented the wheel it shouldnt be too hard to make another one.

[Roostercruiser]

I guess we will find out! I think I will still carry a rag joint setup just incase... not that that is much of a backup plan. Of course, with as many jeeps as there are at the junkyard, maybe I will stop by sometime and just grab another steering shaft and make another backup. Now that I have invented the wheel it shouldnt be too hard to make another one.


thats what i put in our scout from IH ONLY for $89, it works great:thunb:the second pic is what we cut the steering shaft to make it fit.

[scout man]

no fair, you have way more room under there than I do! I basically did the same thing. except my trimming was done on the shaft coming down from the wheel. The 2 u-joints are one solid part, with a slip joint in the middle. I just shortened that slip joint down until it was the size I needed!

[Patrolman]

More room? Don't you both have V8 motors?

[scout man]

yea, but mine feels way more cluttered. I guess looking at the pics it isnt really any different, just a different angle. Looks like roland was laying down on the engine to get that pic!!

[Patrolman]

One good reason to drive the 4 banger or the 258 I6. TONS of room to work on everything!

[scout man]

I dont have too many issues with tight spaces in there... my biggest problem is the scout is so dang tall, and every time I need to work on something its so dang far down in the engine compartment I end up standing on my head all the time trying to work on it.

[scout man]

I got the old tranny torn apart today! Its amazing how much it wasnt as complex as I expected. Now I just need to get the other tranny out of the scout so I can tear it apart, and switch all the components.

Here is the inside of a torqueflite 727, for those of you, like me, have never dove into a tranny before. obviously it could be torn apart more, but I am just switching the functional compnents over and replacing the non-functional one. No in depth rebuild. Here are some pics.

Anyone want to help pull the old tranny out of the scout sometime? This is something I can not do by myself, and the only other person I have around to help these days is Josh (Haku) and he has his hands full with his sammi and the moment. Anyone interested???

[Chris]

I might be able to lend a hand Steve. Let me know when you'd like to do it and I'll see if I can work it out.

[scout man]

Cool, thanks for the offer Chris! I am going on the stockers run tomorrow with josh, so obviously not then, but I would like to get it done Sunday or Monday if possible. Shouldnt be too horrible to get out. The only forseable problem is getting a jack tall enough to handle the task. Last time I rented a Tranny jack, but I cant afford to rent it another 2 times, so hopefully I can do it with a tall jack and a block of wood? I will have to search around. Maybe a pawn shop run this afternoon...

[Patrolman]

I have an adapter to fit onto a floor jack to make it compatible to take out a trans. Never used it. Someone gave it to me and I tossed it in the garage. You are welcome to use it. Other option is to find someone who has a motorcycle/atv jack. Those work great!

[Patrolman]

And if you need some wood blocks, I have some 6" wide blocks I think. Obviously won't work with the tranny adapter.

[scout man]

I think I may take you up on both of those Jeff. not sure which I will need. Problem is my tranny sits too high for your average long arm jack. I had thought abut building a bracket such as that myself. I just hate to drop another $30 bucks for a jack rental. ALready rented twice, will need to rent at least twice more, at that rate I should have just bought the $120 jack at harbor freight. Oh well.

[scout man]

Since I have the tranny torn apart, I am thinking it is a smart time to go ahead and relocate the vents so I can run them up higher. I am hesistant to do this, just because I dont want to mess anything up, especially the casing, which it sounds like it is possible to do with this procedure. It doesnt sound all that hard tho. What do you guys think? And where can I get this stuff, does home depot have this kind of stuff? (tap, and hose barb/plug)

http://www.ihonlynorth.com/forums/transmission-tech/588-torqueflite-727-guapo.html - starts at about post #8

I am thinking it is probably smart, since it is torn apart already, and there is always a potential that the scout will see serious water in the future.

[scout man]

Well, Chris, Josh and I got the transmission out yesterday without too much trouble. However, plans are now being temporarily postponed because I will be going out of town tomorrow for work and won't be back until monday. So, the time schedule is stretched out a little now, I thought it might be running by this weekend... but I think next weekend is still a very manageable goal! Can't complain about 6 days of work anyways, especially when it will pay all my bills for the month!

[Patrolman]

If you want, you can pay me the same salary and I can have your rig on the road in 6 days. ;)

[scout man]

If you want, you can pay me the same salary and I can have your rig on the road in 6 days. ;)

yea, I think everyone would be happy with that setup except the :princess: and the landlord... nice try though jeff!

[Brody]

Since I have the tranny torn apart, I am thinking it is a smart time to go ahead and relocate the vents so I can run them up higher. I am hesistant to do this, just because I dont want to mess anything up, especially the casing, which it sounds like it is possible to do with this procedure. It doesnt sound all that hard tho. What do you guys think? And where can I get this stuff, does home depot have this kind of stuff? (tap, and hose barb/plug)

http://www.ihonlynorth.com/forums/transmission-tech/588-torqueflite-727-guapo.html - starts at about post #8

I am thinking it is probably smart, since it is torn apart already, and there is always a potential that the scout will see serious water in the future.

You may be able to find the NPT (National Pipe Thread) taps at Home Depo or Lowes, but your best bet, at least for the taps, is going to be any of the ACE Hardware stores. You will also be able to find all of your air/hose/brass/plastic fittings there, too.