Spring Re Arch

[Brody]

I installed a set of 63" Chevy springs onto the back of my 94 Toyota awhile back-there is a write up about this in the build section as well as a huge amount of 63" Chevy spring information in the 'Tech Links' section. I follwed all the information that I had access to and all of the information mentioned moving the rear spring hanger 4" back from the stock location. I didn't find this to be true and actually found that, on my particular rig, leaving the rear hanger in the stock location gave me a better shackle angle.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with this swap, it is a cheap way to add an incredible amount of flex to Toyota and Ranger SUVs and trucks. These springs can be had at junkyards for around $15 per side, and, since they are on the back of the popular Chevy 1/2 ton trucks, there are a mess of them around.

Anyway, I decided that, rather than re arch the springs before I put them on, I would simply install them 'as is' and see what how my rig sat. The ride was immensely improved, both on and off road, but my rig now sat with the nose up in the air. Not much, but enough to bother me. I addressed this issue yesterday and took my springs down to the fine folks at Midwest Springs (contact information is now in the 'Local Vendors' thread) to get them re arched.

Since I had never seen this done before I decided to take a few pictures. Since these guys also do all sorts of work down there, I also included a picture of their axle housing straightening machine. The pictures shows Russ checking the existing arch, then bending the springs, and rechecking the arch. One of the spring tabs had to be heated and bent out of the way...not actually critical for the springs re arch, but since I hadn't hammered it enough out of the way, it just made it easier for Russ...and made a cool shot..

Incidentally, breaking the springs down and not having Midwest put them back together or paint them cost me $52 to get 8 leaves done.

As I

[Brody]

Here are the last pictures. That is some press for the axle press, isn't it? The hydraulic cylinder for the spring press was about the same size...

[4Runninfun]

:thunb: looks good brody you'll have to let us know if you notice any difference in ride quality.

[Gecko Cycles]

Many years ago I had Denver Spring make me a custom set of springs. They did it while I waited and watched. I had some re-arched another time too again while I watched. They have a great engineering department. I contacted them last year and they said that they didn't do automotive anymore, only trailers. So I said I need a set of trailer springs made and gave them the desired spring rate and E/E dimensions. LOL

[1freaky1]

Wow Pete that is a hunge press, how much arch did they do for you?

[Brody]

:thunb: looks good brody you'll have to let us know if you notice any difference in ride quality.

I didn't realize that I was still dealing with anything resembling 'ride quality'...I thought that I lost that about 10 modifications ago....Maybe it is just a matter of degree...

I had them re arched 4", figuring that I was probably going to lose an 1-1 1/2 when the springs settle. One trip to Wheeler or OCG will sort that out really quickly...Then I will match the fronts to the rears. I needed the height in the front more than anything, but the rear was lower, so I started there..

I'll post it up if I notice a difference...may be a little stiffer, but those Chevy springs are almost too flexy as is...just right for the trail, soft on the road...should be Ok, though..

[4Runninfun]

i'm actually thinking of doing the 63 swap too.

[Dirt Claude]

I ran 63" Chevy springs on my old 85' 4Runner and was very pleased with them. The flexed like crazy yet still offered good road manners.

[Funrover]

i'm actually thinking of doing the 63 swap too.

DO IT ALREADY! :thunb:

[4Runninfun]

I ran 63" Chevy springs on my old 85' 4Runner and was very pleased with them. The flexed like crazy yet still offered good road manners.

thats exactly what i'm looking for. which is why i'm thinking of going with the 63's. i still drive tons of road miles so i really want to keep it's road manners.

[Brody]

thats exactly what i'm looking for. which is why i'm thinking of going with the 63's. i still drive tons of road miles so i really want to keep it's road manners.

Jon..you get to the point where you are going to do this, holler at me...

[4Runninfun]

you're first on my list pete!

[Brody]

No problem. After just doing this, there were some things in all the information I pulled up that just didn't jive with my install. Like moving the rear spring hanger location back 4". When I did the install, my shackle angle would have been fine without doing all of this and I re located the rear hanger yesterday to the exact same stock location as that was where my angle was right. Every bit of information I came across stated that it need to be moved back, so that is what I did...

I also made my front spring hangers...mainly because it looked kinda fun to do. Buying a set of front hangers from Sky Manufacturing, BudBuilt, or someone like that will not only save you some unneeded fabbing, but are really cheap...and made out of 1/4". It was very had trying to find 1/4" stock that is the correct inner diameter. I used 3/16 and beefed up the holes with welded on washers, then gusseted it..All you would end up doing is making a slightly better ramp/skip plate than what is offered.

The front hanger location is a little confusing in all the information, as the location varied by as much as 2" depending on what article you were reading. I just looked at the pictures and used the front location that nearly everyone was using, locating by an existing body mount.

I would locate the front, weld that in place, bolt the spring in, bolt it to the axle, then see if the rear ahnger needed to be moved.

[WINKY]

how many times can you re-arch springs until they reach metallurgical fatigue and snap?

[4Runninfun]

what i'm planning on doing is ording a set of fronts from alcan custom built to move the front axle forward ~1" so that my driver tire stops rubbing the firewall, install the 63's. then i'm gonna pull the 2" body lift out. i'm not sure if i'll have to modify the stock push/pull steering. so i'll have to see about that, but eventually i'll just go to the x-over steering anyways.

[Brody]

how many times can you re-arch springs until they reach metallurgical fatigue and snap?

One, maybe, at the very most, two times. They will get flat way before they break,especially with a military wrap. I have broken quite a few sets of springs, mainly just one leaf, in both front and rears. In fact, I keep a leaf spring emergency repair kit in with my trail stuff.

It doesn't seem to matter what leaf or where it is in the pack, either, which is a little puzzling. I have broken a leaf in the middle, at the very bottom and the second leaf under the main one. None of them broke at would be, to me, a logical spot except for the bottom most one which broke at the hole. I have a spare set at my house that I use for pieces that also broke at the hole and another that broke part way down the leaf.

The set I took off my rear had a couple of bent springs in the middle of the pack. These are bent almost flat and it is only on one side...

Go figure...It is obvious that the break where they get fatigued, but it is still puzzling as there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.

[Gecko Cycles]

what i'm planning on doing is ording a set of fronts from alcan custom built to move the front axle forward ~1" so that my driver tire stops rubbing the firewall, install the 63's. then i'm gonna pull the 2" body lift out. i'm not sure if i'll have to modify the stock push/pull steering. so i'll have to see about that, but eventually i'll just go to the x-over steering anyways.YOu can drill a hole in the spring perch and spring plate 1" from the stock one and then use stock spring. If you have custom springs made and you break one it would be hard to find a quick replacement.
There is also spring relocation plates that you can use that just bolt on. I think they are about 3/8" thick.

http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2448/.f

[4Runninfun]

YOu can drill a hole in the spring perch and spring plate 1" from the stock one and then use stock spring. If you have custom springs made and you break one it would be hard to find a quick replacement.
There is also spring relocation plates that you can use that just bolt on. I think they are about 3/8" thick.

http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2448/.f

thanks!:thunb: that looks like a much better idea. so then my revised plan is just to get alcans for the front and do the 63's in the rear.

[Brody]

Here is a link to the 4 Crawler relocation plates:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/Shims.shtml

And Sky Manufacturing's:

http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/new/products.php?category=all&sub_category=all&page=2

Although I wouldn't necessarily run it in a crawler, but they would probably work just fine, speed/race shops carry a steel adjustable spring relocating bracket that looks pretty damn slick. Worth a look..

The relocation plate won't help with the Chevy springs at all as they are about 14" longer than the stock springs....you are committed to building or using an after market front spring hanger if you are going to use the 63" Chevy springs...you don't have options...period..

[Dirt Claude]

When I setup my 63" Chevy springs, I too made my own front spring hangers. I believe I found some 1/4" 3x3 square tube and cut out the hanger from that. 3x3 square tube is a pretty odd size so it may be hard to find, but it worked out great.

[4Runninfun]

The relocation plate won't help with the Chevy springs at all as they are about 14" longer than the stock springs....you are committed to building or using an after market front spring hanger if you are going to use the 63" Chevy springs...you don't have options...period..

Oh i know, thus they give better flex and a better ride. no the axle relocation is just for the front so i can get my drivers front tire out of the firewall. Who ever put the 2" lift on before me used some really... really cheap springs. my passenger tire clears the firewall (barely) but my drivers tire makes contact with the pinch seam. so i'm gonna put some quality springs on, see how much that helps and then look at an axle relocation plate if necessary.

with the number of fab shops out there now the cost of new spring hangars is worth it IMO. trail gear sells them for $25. so i'm gonna go that route and make things easy on myself.

[Brody]

Just a suggestion here, but I would go with the Trail Gear springs as they are about $300 less than what you would pay for Alcans. Plus they are matched L/R to compensate for the 3/8" difference between the sides. And they are frequently on sale for under $200...

Here is a link for some other Chevy spring hangers. These are about $20 more than what you priced, but a better design and about $20 less than the BudBuilt ones. Take a look...you need to spend some time poking around this website anyway..these guys make a huge amount of tabs, brackets and adapters


http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Chevy-leaf-spring-frame-mounts_p_1181.html

[4Runninfun]

Alcan too compensates for the difference vs driver & pass. now that i have a job i can save up and get the Alcans. i know there are cheaper options but i really havn't found any better than them. everyone is always very pleased with them. and when it comes to running on the trail i know i'd be much happier with nice soft progressive springs and spend the extra $$.

thanks for the ballisticfab link. i forgot about them. i like their setup looks beefy! i'll spend some looking around their site.

[Brody]

thanks for the ballisticfab link. i forgot about them. i like their setup looks beefy! i'll spend some looking around their site.

I think you will find many parts that you spent a lot of time fabricating at one point or another for under $30. I know that both Sean and I did...

I got 5 years of hard use out of my Alcans on the front and a little more on the Alcans in the rear. I can't say anything bad about them except for the fact that they are expensive, but not as much as Deaver springs.

Before I spent the big$$ on the Alcans, I would talk to both Scotty at Addicted and Andy (who just put the Trail Gear springs on his and see what they say about the Trail Gear stuff.

The Chevy springs are the way to go in the rear, for sure. Alcan can make a set for you based on the Chevy length...my friend Jarret at High Country is running a set of these on the rear of his...but again, these are going to run you $400-500. I would source these at a yard for the $15 per side and just pick up some bracketry at Ballistic Fab. You can probably do the rears for around $100, including springs and brackets which would compensate for the additional cost of the Alcans for the front.

[4Runninfun]

You can probably do the rears for around $100, including springs and brackets which would compensate for the additional cost of the Alcans for the front.

exactly what i'm thinking :thunb:

[Screweder]

exactly what i'm thinking :thunb:
Damn, and I was already taking bets on the cage match I was sure was about to break out! :lol: $50 on Brody!

[4Runninfun]

go to bed chris.

[Screweder]

I attempted that, and you've been giving me a hard time ever since lol.

I do agree with Brody on his assesment though. I don't like buying things because of a name brand... (other than Marlboro). If I can get the same preformance out of a cheaper setup, then I'll be running the cheaper setup. Especially working where we do... We're definately not "rolling in the dough".

[Brody]

Here is a link to the Ballistic Fabrication spring plate hangers. You can't make them for what these guys sell them for...$19.00

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Heavy-Duty-Frame-Link-Mount_p_1511.html