Bill Moore/Mill Creek/Red Elephant

[Chris]

Many of us had another great day, others not so great. Nine trucks met at Safeway, 6 made it to Bill Moore due to TeeHee having fuel supply issues and Ice House and ? stayed to assist. I'm not sure what happened but heard from the tail that they did briefly catch up to us on Bill Moore. I hope you guys all made it home safely w/o too much more difficulty and sorry you didn't get to wheel with us.

Here's Rob providing early excitement for everyone. :eek:

[Funrover]

NICE LEAN!!!!! Where are the rest of the pics.. report? YOU TEASE

[WINKY]

hey theres a hole there....

[Chris]

Of course Brody jumped in to save the day and get Rob out. I imagine some pics will be coming soon enough. Thanks Pete!

It was nice to meet you and your wife Aaron/FangerFire88! Fearless wheeling in the mud and hope you both had a good night at Bill Moore Lake and that the mosquitos spared you. Twisted Bronk/Adrian, great meeting you as well and watching you wheel that thing, very impressive and appropriately named. Fred and kids, nice to see you again and hope you didn't have any issues getting home, I didn't realize you were leaving when you did. More important I hope that you didn't lose all your brake fluid on the way home.

Dr Unit/Rob had some bad luck again after the mud pit on Bill Moore by having a big rock come loose under his truck on Red Elephant and sending him on two wheels while he unwillingly traveled over it. His skid plates saved him serious damage and it appears his only damage is some bent skid plates. Hoping that's it Rob!

The recurring comments from all of us was "How can these 3 trails all be rated the same?" No way. Nope. It just ain't so!

Fun day, sorry we parted in haste but apparently we did since we never saw you in the rear view!

[Chris]

Randy, we decided that we would have had to do some serious body work on your truck if you were with us. Fender trimming, bed bobbing, etc. :lol:

My camera died so we'll have to wait for more pics. :(

Oh yeah, I better mention before someone else does, I seem to have an issue with trees since I tagged another one today. Damn! These were some narrow trails! Watch the big rock on the left while the tree sneaks up on the right. :eek:

[1freaky1]

Chris ya gotta watch out for them boogertrees the have a way of jumping out there when you least expect then too!

[Chris]

Yeah, too many more I'll have to start cutting off damaged parts. :rolleyes:

[1freaky1]

Yeah, too many more I'll have to start cutting off damaged parts. :rolleyes:

Then your rig will end up like mine LOL, although I had not damaged it except for the Colorado pinstriping. That pic does look cool too!!

[Funrover]

Great pics.. That poor S-10 looks like it has seen better days

[WINKY]

someone beat the hell out of it to break the balljoints on the a-arm... poor little guy...LMAO

[Pathrat]

I do like seeing how far an FJC can lean while I am not in it. :D

Narrow trail? Big rock and trees? I don't remember that from last season. As trees have not been a friend to my rig, I will have to watch that. With all the branch growth (Barbour Forks) that is being reported I am not going to have any paint left at the end of the season!

Good pictures.

[Swath]

Cool looking trails.

That S-10 looks like one of them folks that thinks off roading means getting air every chance you can. Stock suspensions can only take so much of that kind of abuse before they leave you stranded on the trail.

Hopefully, there was a lesson learned, probly not though.

[Chris]

I do like seeing how far an FJC can lean while I am not in it. :D

That's at the limit w/o doubt. I think we all agreed 1 degree more and nobody would be smiling about it.

Narrow trail? Big rock and trees? I don't remember that from last season.


Not on Bill Moore but certainly on the rest.

[Funrover]

I do like seeing how far an FJC can lean while I am not in it. :D



What.. did Eagle Rock scare you?:D

[Brody]

Great run! I hope everyone got all of their mechanical problems sorted out and got home safely! We missed wheeling with all of you guys this run! You all looked like you had some really nice rigs!

Rob definitely got his 4X4 fix in for the day. The three trails run in conjunction with each other make for a really good day of wheeling, but, like has been mentioned, the trees are very close together and everyone did a little pinball action getting through the Mill Creek and Red Elephant trails. These last two should be on Randy's NOT TO DO list as there is no way to get a rig the size of his through them. I would say that a regular full size pick up/Chevy Blazer is about the absolute maximum. I will repeat what Chris said (Hey Charles.....)though the trails are all rated the same in Charles Well's books, Mill Creek and Red Elephant are significantly harder than Bill Moore Lake.

On the Chevy S 10: Hard to say if bad driving caused the damage. If he had come in from Red Elephant, then run Mill Creek, then started on Bill Moore, the owner of this rig could easily have done the CV damage that happened. We trashed a R&P the last time there and trashed it farther to get to where we could finish Mill Creek and get to where we could coast down to Empire. I didn't think it was funny as this isn't a great place for trail damage of any kind and it really sucks having to leave your rig on the trail.

BTW...the damage to this rig is one of the reasons I always go on about getting a junkyard CV for a trail spare if you run IFS. CVs break, and actually break fairly easily if you get them bound up. The trail repair takes a little over an hour..Just a heads up....

Many thanks to everyone who provided ballist and assistance helping Rob get his rig out without flopping it. Adrian helped quite a bit and provided the 'second brain/second set of eyes' that are sometimes so critical.

I am going to post the pictures that LaDawn took of the recovery seperately as this was another 'a matter of inches' deal. The pictures show that Rob entered the obstacle pretty well, but got hung up a little bit. He had stopped and was waiting for a little assistance. As he was sitting there, a little bit tippy, his rig all of a sudden slid sideways, deeper into the mud hole, getting extremely tippy. Way past the 30 degree+ mark on the inclinometer...way past...

I didn't realize quite how bad it was, but saw that he was going to need a tug and drove around to get in front of him. When I went to attach a line, I could see that he was right on the verge of flopping over on his side...literally a matter of an inch. Everybody grabbed some straps and I stepped into the goo (which immediately went way over the tops of my boots:D) and, standing on the downhill side of Rob's FJ, managed to get a strap around his roof rack. Adrian grabbed the other end and kept tension on the FJ to keep it in one spot. We added another strap to this so that the folks on the uphill snowy side could stand on some level snow. With tension on this strap, I was able to get another strap around the downhill side of his rock rail and again over the top of his rig. I had a bunch of folks grab this strap and keep tension on it as it was the crucial one.

This was pretty critical. For one thing I was standing in exactly the wrong spot to be...on the downhill side in the mud...and Rob's FJ was teetering enough that I could move it with a gentle push of my hand. We needed to be able to get tension on the FJ so that it didn't flop over while we were pulling it out. Anyway, a bunch of folks got on the rock rail strap and I hooked up to the front for a tug. No luck. I was slightly downhill and in the mud and my tires simply spun. Adrian suggested using the winch after anchoring the back of my rig, which we then did.

A point here: On recoveries of any kind, two brains and two sets of eyeballs on the problem are usually enough. Many more than this usually complicates the matter. It is helpful if the other person has a bunch of experience as Adrian obviously has...Adrian was able to point out a better angle than the one I was looking at and since it was obviously better than the way I was thinking (mine would've worked, too, but was not as good) we just put it to work...Done deal. This proved to be the ticket and, after getting enough pressure off of Rob's front tires, were able to get the tires turned in the right direction and Rob out. Case in point on the two brains/two sets of eyes: I hooked up my strap to a better angled point on my front bumper and Adrian caught that I had run the strap around a roll bar gusset that was a narrow piece of 3/16" steel. The strap could very easily have been cut here.

It is easy to flop a rig, BTW, and the time from being just a little tippy to going over happens extremely quickly...I hope the pictures explain the recovery well enough. If anyone has questions about why something was done, I'll be happy to answer them. BTW...I didn't like standing on the downhill side of Rob's rig. It simply wasn't a good place to be. Someone had to get the straps attached to this side and I did it as carefully as was possible. I had a couple of 'escape routes' planned out before I jumped down into the mud, none of which was stellar as the mud was over my boots. If I had to move quickly, this was going to prove the make or break as I would have probably needed the seconds getting my boots out of the mud. Just glad I didn't have to find out..

At the risk of being even more long winded than I already have been, and because I think this is important, here is what my decision was based on:
It was obvious that we only needed a hundred pounds of pressure to keep Rob's rig from flopping. Rather than attach the strap to the uphill side of the roof rack, things not reknown for their super strong attchment points to begin with, I wanted to get as much bearing over the top of the rig as possible to prevent it shearing at the wrong moment. Ditto with attaching the strap to the downhill side of the rock rail. Attaching the strap here and then over the top of the rig gave the most bearing surface in the most critical spot. If you look at the recovery pictures of my rig's flop at Wheeler, you will see I did the same thing there.

It is also VERY IMPORTANT to listen to the other person helping and to implement their ideas ASAP if they are better than yours. Thanks Adrian! So, put your ego aside, be open to input from the other guy and simply get the job done as safely as conditions allow. This cannot be stressed enough...

Here are my pictures:

[Brody]

More recovery pictures:

[Brody]

The last two of the recovery and trail run pictures:

[Brody]

Trail run pictures continued:

[Brody]

The last two: The Red FJ was part of a group of two nice folks that we ran into on the trail that followed us out. Excuse the smudge on the camera..that was some smooge from the mud pit....

[WINKY]

Wow pete the first pic of the fj didnt do justice as to how F'd in the mudhole it really was! that thing does look like its about to flop and get its belly scratched! (edit: not a hummer but an fj i was very tired)

Glad you were able to get it out with no issues.

On the other hand i totally agree with you on working together to accomplish the goal and not get to big headed over who's right and who's wrong with an idea of recovery. When my friend and i went up on Yankee and got hung up on the rock he got out and had me "spin tires till nothing happened" and after 15 minutes of that crap i got out and examined the true mechanics of how i got stuck and factoring in that i am being pulled downhill by our friend GRAVITY i pointed out to him why spinning tires does nothing. I then told him can i do it the right way whilst explaining to him why his method of non intelligent recovery (he didn't put much thought into it) was not working. I then proceeded to explain to him what we have to do to work with what is against us (rock, gravity snow) and how to let them work for us by 1: strap truck as to not let it slide downhill out of control but enough to do what i want it to do 2: lift the AXLE which was hung up not the tire sitting in free air OVER the rock 3: let gravity pull truck over the rock to clear and get tire back weighted on ground. It took about 15 minutes of him saying "this will work, just give it gas and turn your wheels this way" then realizing nothing was happening to 45 minutes of me analyzing the predicament and coming to a workable solution that didn't damage anything and got us off the rock. Now had he had more trail experience and a working knowledge of leverage, weight distribution, GRAVITY and where we were bound up on it would have gone much faster. Also dont rush stuff, relax and work the problem.

Along with what Pete said above about the recovery, Solve the problem, don't just throw possible solutions at it and hope one will work, identify safety hazards and address them first if possible before further work is done, i strapped the truck to a good size tree knowing that once off the rock the truck may slide downhill and it actually did a bit. Not doing this will end up in Sh!t breaking people getting hurt and then your in a world of hurt. Redneck recovery doesn't work well. Identify a solution, plan the solution, implement the solution. Always be mindful of safety.

Good write up Pete!

[WINKY]

These last two should be on Randy's NOT TO DO list as there is no way to get a rig the size of his through them.


i could do it, ill put my little magic bubble of protection around my rig and punch the gas!:lol:


(.....you wanna help me fix my rig when i get home, my bubble popped....:()

[Brody]

Redneck recovery doesn't work well. Identify a solution, plan the solution, implement the solution. Always be mindful of safety.

Randy just summed things up for everybody in a nutshell.

Another thing that I didn't mention was to keep your eyes on all aspects of the situation. I noticed that the way we started to pull Rob's FJ out was forcing his passenger side tire to become perpendicular to the mud bank and that further stress on it was probably going to blast it off the A arm or break the CV axle. There was so much force on it that he was unable to steer the direction he needed to go. I had Rob back his rig down about 1' as I paid out cable. This allowed him to steer into the slope the right direction and we were able to get him out without damage.

And Randy...that rig jsut slipped right into the hole with no warning, the mud was so slick. I probably put 20-30 pounds of pressure on it from the downhill side and could move it. That is how close it was to tipping! Rob said that his inclinometer was redlined!

[WINKY]

that is a scary situation man! glad it was without incident.


I also learned allot from the military about stuck vehicle recovery. I think it was like a few days worth of book training but neverless it was worth it, many times there are forces that you never notice until its too late, thus the take your time and identify everything you can that is working against you and solve it. actually pulling the vehicle out and getting "recovery" should be the last step in most cases.

[Brody]

Like I said, Rob got his 4X4 fix in yesterday. First it was the mud pit incident, then on the way down Red Elephant, he drives over this rock in the trail (it took 3 people to move it and probably weighed 400lbs) that looked just like all the others. This rock decides it has had enough, jumps out of the ground and proceeds to grind it's way along the undercarriage until it gets spit out the back bouncing Rob's rig up on two wheels as it exits!

It would make a perfect ad for Rasta 4x4 skid plates because he would have holed his gas tank for sure. The gouges in the skid plate are pretty impressive. If he comes over today so that we can re tweak the plate and replace a bolt or two, we'll take some pictures...

[WINKY]

Damn carnage man!

[1freaky1]

some good pics everyone, looks a bit hairy there on that tipping angle for sure.

[Brody]

I checked the traildamage.com site for their ratings for these trails. Here is what they are:

Bill Moore Lake: 4 In my opinion about right.

Mill Creek: 5 Again, in my opinion, about right.

Red Elephant Hill: 6 And yes again, especially if you run it the correct way-up from Downieville. I was at least on par with Mill Creek if you run it downhill like we did.

This, once again, shows that you need to reference just about all the trail resources that you can get your hands on. The Front Range trail information, Traildamage.com., Charles Well's books...anything at all.

[WINKY]

Since these trails have been run can you throw on the trail info pages which ones are not big rig friendly :) tnx

i still need to do some updates on trails ive done... might get to it tomorrow

[Hypoid]

Driving worn out junk will do that also. Sometimes it is better to just stay home.

http://frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4003&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1246681605 (http://frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4003&d=1246681605)

Good job on the recovery! Just looking at the pictures makes my whole body tingle. I don't even have a winch mounted up but I already want a portable anchor like the pull-pal. I can't count the times I've wished for more than this:
http://frontrange4x4.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4009&stc=1&d=1246705732

[A-TRAC]

Nice pictures and great recovery guys.:thunb:

[Tee Hee]

What a day! My truck started cutting out right after we left safeway, was not getting any fuel pressure so I put in a new fuel pump relay and that got it going. It died again right after we caught you at that Dairy Hut place, we got it fixed again by bypassing the fused link for the ECU, I could pull the fuse and put it back in and everything would come back online, but it was not blowing the fuse..strange. Anyways we hustled and caught you guys briefly on the trail. We stopped to lock our hubs and just after we passed that first old mine my motor died (again). This time the starter would not turn over, so I swapped to a backup starter and still wouldn't turn over. So we pulled the valve covers and found the rods on the 7&8 cylinders had fell down into the motor, not sure what exactly was the root cause or the extend of the carnage until I can tear the motor down. I'm heartbroken because that was a brand new motor with just a couple hundred miles on it. Icehouse and Alex towed me back down to the trailhead and gave me a ride home. They also drove back up with a trailer and brought it back, they are some damn good friends and I'm lucky they were out there with me!

Special thanks to all the folks who stopped and asked if I needed any help, there were a few other rigs and even some atv's and bikes that took the time to stop. Its good to know there's still good people out there that aren't afraid to stop and help.

[Chris]

Wow, sorry to hear what was causing you trouble. That sucks, especially on a new motor. :(

[WINKY]

someone didnt tighten something down..... suck tee hee hope u get it fixed soon man!

[Pathrat]

Brody, excellent write up on the recovery; I could almost picture it. I had one question though. When you strapped to his roof rack, where was the other end of the strap? I see guys holding on to it. Did you use men and weight bearers or was there a tree? Thanks for the addition to the tips too Randy!
Perfect pictures.

[Chris]

Just people Path, no trees available.

[Pathrat]

Just people Path, no trees available.

Wow, pretty intense operation there. :)

[Brody]

Brody, excellent write up on the recovery; I could almost picture it. I had one question though. When you strapped to his roof rack, where was the other end of the strap? I see guys holding on to it. Did you use men and weight bearers or was there a tree? Thanks for the addition to the tips too Randy!
Perfect pictures.


I looped the first (roof rack) strap through itself around the roof rack. We then extended it so that the people holding the end weren't on the angles snowpack. I only needed a few pounds of force on it to keep me from getting squished when I was threading the other strap through the rock rail..

[Brody]

I'm heartbroken because that was a brand new motor with just a couple hundred miles on it. Icehouse and Alex towed me back down to the trailhead and gave me a ride home. They also drove back up with a trailer and brought it back, they are some damn good friends and I'm lucky they were out there with me!

Special thanks to all the folks who stopped and asked if I needed any help, there were a few other rigs and even some atv's and bikes that took the time to stop. Its good to know there's still good people out there that aren't afraid to stop and help.

I hope that you get everything fixed ok and didn't shell the engine! What a weird thing to happen!

Anyway, good luck with that and we will certainly look forward to seeing you one the trails soon.

Post up if you can use a had with something...

[Tee Hee]

Thanks Pete, I got the manifold off today and the cam shaft is broken in two. I might be lucky because the way it broke I dont think it took anything else with it, must have been a defect or something.

[WINKY]

Thanks Pete, I got the manifold off today and the cam shaft is broken in two. I might be lucky because the way it broke I dont think it took anything else with it, must have been a defect or something.



HOLY SHEET! MFG defect? if so i would raise hell with the supplier...lol I would check to ensure no valves stayed open while the crank was still moving, possibility of bent valves with crank spinning and broken part of cam not moving leaving valves opened...:2c:

Fingers crossed though!

[Pathrat]

Just as a point of clarification, did Rob's FJ too-far-over-passenger incident take place at Bill Moore, the mudpits, or somewhere else?

[Brody]

Bill Moore Lake, the mud pits. There was an easy bypass that went through a little mud to the right that I took to get in front of him. Took it on the way out, too....

If you look at the photos, Twisted Bronco is going down into the pit where Rob tipped. The bypass is just out of the picture to the right.

[Rob]

[QUOTE=Brody;48440] The pictures show that Rob entered the obstacle pretty well, but got hung up a little bit. He had stopped and was waiting for a little assistance. As he was sitting there, a little bit tippy, his rig all of a sudden slid sideways, deeper into the mud hole, getting extremely tippy. Way past the 30 degree+ mark on the inclinometer...way past...QUOTE]

Not much to add. Except that I didn't actually "enter the obstacle pretty well." I was trying to squeeze between the mud pit and the snow bank when the mud pit wall collapsed. I tried to drive out, got sideways, then slide in to the position you see in the way too many photos that have been posted. :D

Thanks a million (actually, about $10,000 worth of potential bodywork) to Pete, Adrian and everyone who held the straps that kept me from tipping that one more degree that would have sent me over.

I'll post some pics if this post goes through. I've been trying to post for two days but have been having some technical difficulties.

[Rob]

Just as a point of clarification, did Rob's FJ too-far-over-passenger incident take place at Bill Moore, the mudpits, or somewhere else?

Not so. Too far over would have been 90 degrees. I was only about 44.

[Rob]

Any guesses on number of degrees?

4041

[Chris]

More than my truck could handle! :thunb:

(Posting problems resolved?)

[WINKY]

id say right at 39-40

[Rob]

Some more pics:
4042

4043

4044

4045

4046

[A-TRAC]

Thanks a million (actually, about $10,000 worth of potential bodywork) to Pete, Adrian and everyone who held the straps that kept me from tipping that one more degree that would have sent me over.

x2.

Looks like they took care of you Rob. Glad to see there was no body damage.

You get a chance to straighten out your Rasta's yet?

I need to get out with you guys soon and see how my new tires do. Never had pizza cutters before.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/khalidafridi/KM2s/IMG_8952-1.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/khalidafridi/KM2s/IMG_8954-1.jpg

[Brody]

You get a chance to straighten out your Rasta's yet?

Rob came over to my place yesterday and we proceeded to apply a little love to the Rasta's with a 5 pound sledge. We got them straight again, tweaked a bracket for clearance, and re bent the main cross support bar back to where it fit well.
The Rasta's took a huge hit and stood up to the damage well, BTW, paying for themselves more than once...Rob would've holed his gas tank for sure without them as well as causing other damage.

[A-TRAC]

There has been a huge debate about Steel vs Aluminum vs HDPE skids in the FJC community for a while and am glad to hear the Rasta's did what they are supposed to and you guys were able to get them straightened out.

I have steel skids and usually end up giving them to one of our friends who works in a body shop to get them straightened out. But, am at a point where I am going to Harbor Freight this week to get my own sledge. 3/16 steel is not easy to straighten out.

[Funrover]

WOO HOO More pics!

[Brody]

I think the two main arguments are weight and price. Steel is way cheaper than aluminum and easier to weld it if you need to. The strength difference, especially for something simple as a skid plate is, to me, a mute point. All they have to do is to do the job, which all three of these do.

I am about 3/4 of the way through a gas skid design than I am going to offer in both. The difference in price between the steel and aluminum is roughly $200. The steel on is going on mine....

[A-TRAC]

Yeah, I think the big debate with aluminum was that if you keep bending them back, they will fracture eventually.

Steel can definitely take a beating, but you have the weight disadvantage and they aren't easy to straighten out.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/khalidafridi/IMG_7879.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/khalidafridi/IMG_7884.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/khalidafridi/IMG_7918.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/khalidafridi/IMG_8925-1.jpg

[Pathrat]

Not so. Too far over would have been 90 degrees. I was only about 44.

:lol: I stand corrected.

[Pathrat]

More than my truck could handle! :thunb:



I'm with Chris...more than I want to see mine at, and it was at around 30, once.

[Rob]

Did straightening out the skids cure Rob's noise?

No, that just made the skids straighter. Pete got rid of the clang by emptying about half a can of white lithium grease on the underside, pretty much coating anything that had a bolt or bushing.

I wanted to get the skids straightened, particularly the one that was jammed up against the T case, but it was the noise that had me worried. So we spent about four hours on the skids and Pete spent about four minutes to get rid of the clang. Go figure.

I did some grinding on the skids tonight to smooth out some of the uglier rock rashes cuz, you know, skids work better when they look purty.

[Rob]

I thought everyone might get a kick out of Pete's custom bracket bending machine. :)

4066

[WINKY]

(redneck engineering) :thunb:

[Brody]

Hey we could have bent my HiLift like that. Why didn't you tell me you brought your bending machine on the trails with you?:lol:

We needed Randy along to bend it like that. It would have taken about 4 of us on the jack to bend it and only one Randy. There simply wasn't enough room to fit us all on the jack.

I have used the exo cage a lot to bend stuff, both wheeling and on job sites. One of the benefits to an exo, I guess....

[WINKY]

i got yer back man:thunb:

[Brody]

Did straightening out the skids cure Rob's noise?

The control arm mounts were tweaked in a little causing some binding and the bracket that came down by the rear drive shaft and gas tank had gotten pushed over causing the drive shaft to hit the bracket when the driver's side rear tire went up.

I rebent the bracket and also cut a little off so that it won't hit anything even if it gets tagged hard again. I also un tweaked the control arm brackets a little. Rob has some after market skids for these that he is going to re install and I'll probably stitch a couple of welds on them to keep them in place.

Anything else was simply in need of a little lube...Rob's rig is so new and leak free that it isn't self lubricating like some other people's rigs here.....hey Tye...where ya been?:D

[WINKY]

HAHAHAHAHA

[A-TRAC]

I also un tweaked the control arm brackets a little. Rob has some after market skids for these that he is going to re install and I'll probably stitch a couple of welds on them to keep them in place.

Not sure what Toyota was thinking, but the rear control arms and brackets are very weak. You could tweak the brackets with a pair of pliers and they do usually take a beating, so they definitely need to be re-enforced with after-market ones.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/khalidafridi/IMG_8858-1.jpg

[Brody]

They are the same way on the heavier Land Cruisers, too. In fact the design switches straight across.

I made some very simple 1/4" skids for the rear of Pathrat's Fj that she has stress tested to the max. Just a simple plate that was welded in, but keeps the bracket from getting trashed out.

Toyota does a bunch of really good stuff, but it is obvious that they have a 'B' team working for them, too..

[Tee Hee]

Hey Matt..
Who assembled the engine? Are you running roller lifters or flat tappets? If you are running rollers where the restrictors installed in the back of the block? If not then that could cause lack of oil to the back of the cam and cause it to seize on the rear bearing and twist in two. Also wrong length pushrods will cause the rocker arm to bind on the valve as it moves up and down and puts stress on the camshaft. Hope you get it all figured out, sucks when a new engine grenades like that. I've built quite a few hot rod chebbies in my day, let me know if you need some help.

It was assembled by Sean's engine service, It was not a good experience and I wouldn't use him again. Its running roller rockers so would guess it has roller lifters, restrictors? No idea that's why I had someone else built it:D Since Sean wont return my calls, who knows he might have gone out of business in this economy, I'm pulling the motor out this week and will try to find someone who knows there stuff to inspect it before I put a new cam in.

[WINKY]

you got a few big guys on here to back you up if'n you needin to press some flesh and do a bit of politican......;)

[Brody]

Since Sean wont return my calls, who knows he might have gone out of business in this economy, I'm pulling the motor out this week and will try to find someone who knows there stuff to inspect it before I put a new cam in.

Get a hold of Justin at Red Line Motor Sports. He wheels and races and is your basic good guy motorhead. If he can't do anything for you, I am sure that he can point you in the right direction.

Here is a link to his site:

http://www.redlinelandcruisers.com/

He is RLMS on the forum if you want to send him an e mail or PM.

Pete

[Pathrat]

I made some very simple 1/4" skids for the rear of Pathrat's Fj that she has stress tested to the max. Just a simple plate that was welded in, but keeps the bracket from getting trashed out.
.

I came down hard on the skids Brody made on Poison Spider, and a bunch of CO trails...they are a great addition.

[Chris]

It was assembled by Sean's engine service, It was not a good experience and I wouldn't use him again. Its running roller rockers so would guess it has roller lifters, restrictors? No idea that's why I had someone else built it:D Since Sean wont return my calls, who knows he might have gone out of business in this economy, I'm pulling the motor out this week and will try to find someone who knows there stuff to inspect it before I put a new cam in.

Is this on Mariposa in Englewood or Alamaeda in Lakewood?